EPT
MotM February Results - Page 3
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kAelle_sc
287 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
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Samro225am
Germany982 Posts
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On March 14 2012 23:40 Barrin wrote: This is a terrible idea in it's current state. You (almost) assume that ALL team mapmakers are better than ALL indepedent mapmakers. This is incredibly wrong. The lesser (teamless) bracket would be just that: lesser. If your map got top 5 in the lesser bracket, pretty much nobody would give a shit, and therefore you probably wouldn't give many shits either. Taking away the potential for a real (finalist) win simply for being an independent mapmaker is pretty lame. The upper (team) bracket would also be more lame. Instead of winning over everyone! you would be winning over only people who were in a team. This is not nearly as great of a win. Agree with this completely. Top 5 or bust. Why bother if you're "Top 5 of the other bracket" If your maps are good enough, PM a team or create your own. It's not like you need Monitor to post saying your map is top 5 material, just go with your gut. | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
If you rly want to know if you got talent and stuff, PM me and I will give you some honest feedback (careful!: I will call your mapmaking skills horrible if they are, ask tehtemplar). Overall I'm happy with the maps we picked this month. With the lack of 4 player maps last month it's good to see some this month. And the 2p maps certainly have something fun going on as well. Also from an aesthetic view point all of them are great  There were quite some maps that I enjoyed that didn't make top5 for many reasons, maybe I will write about some of the maps later if I'm not too lazy (= very unlikely I will). Looking forward to the tournament and to future contests! | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
But then, give us back judging appreciations of non-listed maps ! They were great to have. | ||
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wrl
United States209 Posts
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Propanelol
United States81 Posts
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
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SigmaFiE
United States333 Posts
On March 14 2012 23:40 Barrin wrote: Well first I want to say that the bias bullshit has to stop. When judging, I don't even look at who made the map let alone what team they're in. I do that only after placing the maps. Not that you were saying that. This is a terrible idea in it's current state. You (almost) assume that ALL team mapmakers are better than ALL indepedent mapmakers. This is incredibly wrong. The lesser (teamless) bracket would be just that: lesser. If your map got top 5 in the lesser bracket, pretty much nobody would give a shit, and therefore you probably wouldn't give many shits either. Taking away the potential for a real (finalist) win simply for being an independent mapmaker is pretty lame. The upper (team) bracket would also be more lame. Instead of winning over everyone! you would be winning over only people who were in a team. This is not nearly as great of a win. -- But, Barrin!!! You don't know what it's like down here with the rest of us, you're a judge so it doesn't affect you! I am officially resigning as an MotM judge for future MotM events (I'll still be here as we choose jan and february #1's). It was a blast judging MotM 8, MotM 9, MotM Jan, and MotM Feb. Maybe I'll end up judging again, and/or maybe even start a solo-ran mini-competition to complement MotM. We'll see. For now I have other things to focus on. GG -- So yeah, as an independent mapmaker competing once again in MotM's, I would be utterly disappointed if I could not compete against everyone, especially most of the best (read: teamed people). You could let independent mapmakers enter themselves into the team bracket if they want. I guess this would be totally fine if all the above-average independent mapmakers did so (which may or may not happen). But of the rest of the below-average independent mapmakers, how many of them need a team to improve more than they need to just play/watch a lot more starcraft? I'd venture to say almost none of them. I apologize if it appears that I am being biased. That is not my intent. I am not trying to cause a disruption here. And I will try and clarify my suggestion (which I think is misconstrued by parties who agree and disagree with it) -- -- which is that non-affiliated mappers be allowed non-competitive recognition when their map quality warrants such recognition. This would not impede on the current competition at all -- the main competition remains with all submissions allowed. This is merely a sidenote to the main competition -- I encourage all map makers to continue putting forth their work in the competition for judgement and critique in the hopes of one day being the best over ALL other competitors (affiliated or not). I know I will. My suggestion merely allows a position for the judging panel to recognize those maps created without the distinct advantage (and I want to emphasize advantage, not better) of team affiliation. If this is already practiced than I apologize for even bring the idea up. I do not advocate a separate bracket. I do not advocate upper and lower brackets. Hope that clears up my suggestion, and I am now done talking about it to get us back on track of celebrating these great maps and mappers! GO THE GRID! On a completely separate note -- I will miss your competition judging Barrin. I hope this particular instance is not the point that drove you to resign. And I wish you the best of luck in all of your future endeavors. You will be missed. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
It's like randomly paying a prize to someone who gets 65th overall at MLG because they were teamless. If you want win, join/make a team and get better. If you want to remain independent, then your maps will never hit that next level. I think I can easily say every single ESV map would have sucked had we not had the team environment to process feedback back and forth and such. | ||
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Phried
Canada147 Posts
Or is that what Barrin was already planning to do? | ||
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Zyufin
United States85 Posts
If so, I think it should be added to the Practice Partners Season 6 thread in Strategy. If not, do people think that would be a good idea? I assume it's at least been tried at some point. If people could get united behind a single channel it could be a nice resource. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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SigmaFiE
United States333 Posts
On March 15 2012 04:48 Barrin wrote: This is not at all what drove me to resign, I've been planning to do this, I almost didnt judge this month :D Careful about wishing me luck, I'm now your competition again! ^^ Kinda; I'll elaborate on this later ^^ I'm not going anywhere. BTW looking back I may have been a little harsh, sorry bout that lol Oh snap!! And here I thought I might catch a break  Don't worry about the harshness. Grew up with a couple of attorneys as parents and a brother that's now in law school. If anything, I get some sort of sick pleasure out of arguments. | ||
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ArcticRaven
France1406 Posts
On March 15 2012 04:41 Zyufin wrote: If so, I think it should be added to the Practice Partners Season 6 thread in Strategy. If not, do people think that would be a good idea? I assume it's at least been tried at some point. If people could get united behind a single channel it could be a nice resource. That'd be quite cool actually :D | ||
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yakitate304
United States655 Posts
I also prefer Titanis over Metropolis on first look. | ||
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chuky500
France473 Posts
There were already presitigious mapping contests like the Teamliquid and the IPL one that got new maps to big tournaments, which Motm hasn't managed to achieve yet. Blizzard is now getting used to having polls about the map pool, and will add 2 GSL maps. The way maps are included into tournaments is turning into a popularity contest and Motm can't compete with the popularity of the GSL or a TL contest. If Blizzard would include new maps in the future they'd rather suggest a new TL contest rather than picking Motm. Motm is too much aimed at maps competing against eachother and not enough about getting maps better through cooperation. Many maps have similarities (ie the metagame of maps) so if the pool of finalists was bigger, during the tournament it would be more obvious to mappers what works and what doesn't, or how far a 3rd expansion is too far, or what size and amount of chokes is fine. It may seem like it's been understood for a while but look at the amount of criticism Khoral Compound gets in the thread about the poll for season 7. Also if you've watched the Motm that was casted by Mr. Bitter and Rotterdam this winter, they were not particularly pleased with the maps and often said things like "I'm not sure about this feature" or "its like an awkward version of [other map]". So there's still a long way to go before finalists are good. And now if you look at the number of maps in tournaments : Playhem NA has 13 maps, Go4sc2 has 7. Don't you find counterproductive that Motm whose goal is to play new maps only has 5 ? It means only 5 maps will be able to get a boost of feedback, sometimes 4 like when Cloud Kingdom was a finalist despite being in the GSL, in the Blizzard ladder, and being the TL contest winner. Like I said the only good way to get feedback is to have players play the map. More maps = more feedback. And don't tell me about creating a new team of mappers for feedback because even mappers from big mapping teams publicly say they either stopped playing or play 2v2/3v3 games. Sure they may have a high level but they lack the insight of playing in the current metagame. For example players in a tournament will have better insight about Terrans and Zergs double expanding against Protoss, which is pretty common nowadays. One last thing, this is not the first time mappers complain about finalists being all from ESV and TPW and in my opinion the only way to answer this problem is to have judges that aren't part of any of these teams. You may think that you're being fair but it is a bias. It'd be like if court judges were in a political party, or if politicians had their campaign financed by big industries. Now Barrin has resigned from Motm I believe it's time to renew the Motm jury and I'd like to apply as a judge. I also suggest that other teamless mappers apply. It can only make the community more sane. | ||
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