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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
Corsair is a major unit in pvz earlygame, that's why it's relevant. Yeh, but I think it has a lot of utility already in early game in BW, but less relevant later on in the game. So I rather design the ability in a way that doesn't impact the early game balance that uch. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
On December 19 2013 05:57 Hider wrote: Yeh, but I think it has a lot of utility already in early game in BW, but less relevant later on in the game. So I rather design the ability in a way that doesn't impact the early game balance that uch. I think it's rather 'you have to get this unit to not die vs muta' than 'it has a lot of utility already in early game'. People didn't bother getting it mid/lategame because disruption web required fleet beacon + upgrade. Also note that spores are less fat and cheaper than in bw and they can be moved. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
It is a risky thing to do for the balance. But if it can help to stop the lame massing of Vessels vs every late game unit Zerg has, then I am willing to try it. BUT how is the compensation buff suppose to be? It can be used on any kind of unit? Irradiate vs P and T! : In the case we try Irradiate as a splash damage ability only, I think it would be a great idea that we made the SV start with Irradiate. The upgrade doesn't really have any decision-making relevance since you always get it vs zerg and never get it vs terran/protoss, thus it is only there for balance-purposes. Since we nerf it it one way I think it would only be fair that it receive a buff in another way. If NJ stays in the game, I suggest (given all the nerfs it has received) that we reduce energy cost to 75. Also note that spores are less fat and cheaper than in bw and they can be moved. That's a valid point. I guess spores got buffed in Sbow and instead overlords got nerfed (since you need overseer for detection). That kinda makes the game more static-defense oriented which probably isn't a good thing - unless we increase the counters to static defense (as you suggest). When that is said, I agree with Kabel that it will be too time-consuming too change both NJ and Sentinels ability in order to make room for Web. To make static defense less dominant in the early midgame, we could instead consider nerfing Spores a bit and reducing the cost of Overseers? | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
For example ZvZ, where zerg spores already are quite weak vs the muta. As for being time-consuming: current sentinels ability and NJ have not fit in the game decently yet, so you'd spend as much time on polishing them and searching another good alternative ability for lift. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Enjoy! | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
 As for my nick, it was sickmyduck before, but then we created a 'clan' for shits and giggles (team solid), so it became SMD. Clan has been sorta dead for long, but i sticked with the nick :p. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On December 19 2013 07:41 SolidSMD wrote: Nice cast! And I'm not from Madagascar, lol Surrrrrrrre you aren't  Don't worry, we'll keep it a secret. | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
Even though isn't seems, I constantly check the forum. Let's take a look at the ideas on the corsair: @Disruption web I think it would be nice to see, maybe it should not work on armored units. @Graviton beam I like sc2 lift, but is broken on starbow (cause corsairs vs hydralisk), but I want to talk a little about it: When I played the beta of sc2, I immediately thought that this ability was to be used on tanks and workers, and I liked the idea. But we all know that the mech on sc2 has not made an appearance vs protoss  I think it would be nice to his return, however, will only work on armored units (and with an upgrade on massive). The effects are similar, graviton beam is concentrated on a single and powerful unit, while disruption web is strong against many small targets. @Scout I'd like a scout cheaper and medium/faster movement speed, that must be a strong support against air armored units and a good harasser. The right arm of the corsair! Corsair makes useless units, and the scout kills them. @Sentinel It would be a nice skill that allows you to disable the static defenses but make it invulnerable (as stasis field). To use this ability, the oracle will have to remain motionless until the duration of the ability. In this way, each units of the Stargate do synergy with the other, making valid stargate opening against all races. Will also be useful in late game. @Viper Abduct not fascinates me that much. I would prefer a neural parasite that stop attack of the affected unit. The owner of the Viper however, could give a move command to the unit affected. @Ghost The poor ghost seems to has been thrown by the wayside. Time ago I had recommended a skill anti siege (tank, lurker, reaver). A long range hots seeker missile that make heavy damage against a single target. The closer missile is launched, it will be more difficult for the opponent to dodge. However, the more the ghost approaches the victim, the higher the chances of losing the ghost itself I know this is all theorycraft, but I feel it will work! For a better Protoss air! Commented!  | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Maybe the dropship model is just bugged (?) Can you replace it with a medivac without healing? Its quite annoying. I found the problem. The current uploaded file is bugged, and it affects load/unload too. I quoute myself from yesterday: I just found out that over 50 custom made Validators in the editor have crashed... (Ca half of all I have made) Those Validators help to determine a lot of the details for spells/units/attacks... Thats why so many abilities like Chrono boost, Nurturing Swarm and tons of other spells/units/attacks all of a sudden have acted buggy the last days... And my last back-up is over one month old.. In either case, I have to rework a ton of lame stuff... I´ve worked all day rebuilding everythat that broke. Tomorrow will things be uploaded & fixed. @Cast + Show Spoiler + Nice cast! But unfortunately I notice some things that are bugged too. (Hopefully only I see it..) Ooohh buuugs T_T @Disruption web & Graviton beam + Show Spoiler + I repeat myself - so no one misses my stance - Sentienel and Vessel already have spells that both resembles Disruption web. Which means that IF Corsairs shall get back some kind of Disrupion web ability, both Vessel and Sentinel needs a new spell each. And someone gotta invent or find those spells... and "someone" gotta build them in the editor... If I receive a good total suggestion, which includes both Vessel & Sentinel & how to balance D-web, I might be able to go for it. Otherwise here are four alternatives: - Modify Graviton beam to make it more "fun" - Create some new spell for Corsair (That is neither Disruption web nor Graviton beam) - Remove Graviton beam and let the Corsair be flat - Or just let Graviton beam remain so we can go on with our lifes -_- @Ghost + Show Spoiler + @Ghost The poor ghost seems to has been thrown by the wayside. Time ago I had recommended a skill anti siege (tank, lurker, reaver). A long range hots seeker missile that make heavy damage against a single target. The closer missile is launched, it will be more difficult for the opponent to dodge. However, the more the ghost approaches the victim, the higher the chances of losing the ghost itself The Ghost has been forgotten. I agree it could need some improvement since it is very lame and quite useless atm. But the ability you suggest might become broken because Ghosts are cheap and easy to mass? Ten or more Ghosts spamming this spell on enemy expensive units. Yamato gun? @Irradiate + Show Spoiler + In the case we try Irradiate as a splash damage ability only, I think it would be a great idea that we made the SV start with Irradiate. The upgrade doesn't really have any decision-making relevance since you always get it vs zerg and never get it vs terran/protoss, thus it is only there for balance-purposes. Since we nerf it it one way I think it would only be fair that it receive a buff in another way. The main reason I want to make Irradiate NOT kill units is to stop super-mass-Vessel-play vs Z. IMO a very lame thing from BW. One Terran unit who is insanely good vs everything Zerg has in the lategame - Defilers, Ultralisks, Guardians, Lurkers etc. No matter what, get Vessels! Its even worse in Sbow due to smart-cast. If possible, I would rather add "decision-making relevance" to the upgrade. Maybe something like this: Requires upgrade. 75 energy- Deals ca 100-200 damage during 30 sec. Splash damage. Can not kill the target. Only damages to 1 life. Units around it can die from the splash. Can be used on all kinds of units. When used on a biological unit, a green cloud appears. When used on a mechanical unit, a brown/orange cloud appears. (Just to avoid confusion why the green cloud damages mech stuff) Now it is useful in all match-ups - a micro rewarding spell that also encourages the use of more Terran units. (Use Banshee or Viking as support to finish off units who got drained to 1 life.) Ofc there is always the problem of recognition. Players expect it do the exact same thing as in BW. Spells should not be touched unless there is a clear major improvement in it. (Adn yes, I do fail at that sometimes) | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
There will always be bugs, always. The words of an American legend ;D | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Oh ffs. | ||
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Vicissitude
Sweden28 Posts
I read the posts here regularly and since I'm not in any way good at SC:BW/SC:2 I can't really support you with suggestions. I just wanted to say that I think it is wonderful to see that you have adopted (I'm not sure whether you're just remaking BW maps or not) a map design approach that involves no "void space", i.e. these ubiquitous areas of nothing at the edge that seem to plague each and every SC:2 map. By the way... Is there any way to play SBow with your friends on the EU server? I've searched for some maps from time to time (search string: starbow) but haven't found anything. In addition; thanks for the effort you people put into this. I really enjoy being able to "watch" the entire process. In many instances it seems that you are doing what Blizzard should be doing! | ||
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Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
Regardless, I prefer that the Ghosts get away from the anti-Reaver role. By nerfing Reaver vs armored units (and making Collosus better), then we have free'd up the role of the Ghost to be an awesome battleoriented unit. By the way... Is there any way to play SBow with your friends on the EU server? I've searched for some maps from time to time (search string: starbow) but haven't found anything. Its in arcade. Requires upgrade. 75 energy- Deals ca 100-200 damage during 30 sec. Splash damage. Can not kill the target. Only damages to 1 life. Units around it can die from the splash. Can be used on all kinds of units. When used on a biological unit, a green cloud appears. When used on a mechanical unit, a brown/orange cloud appears. (Just to avoid confusion why the green cloud damages mech stuff) Seems pretty decent. Not sure how it will impact balance in TvP and TvT though. | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
On December 19 2013 09:27 Kabel wrote: @Ghost + Show Spoiler + @Ghost The poor ghost seems to has been thrown by the wayside. Time ago I had recommended a skill anti siege (tank, lurker, reaver). A long range hots seeker missile that make heavy damage against a single target. The closer missile is launched, it will be more difficult for the opponent to dodge. However, the more the ghost approaches the victim, the higher the chances of losing the ghost itself The Ghost has been forgotten. I agree it could need some improvement since it is very lame and quite useless atm. But the ability you suggest might become broken because Ghosts are cheap and easy to mass? Ten or more Ghosts spamming this spell on enemy expensive units. Yamato gun? If a skill is strong and serves to make the unit quite useful, there are two ways to balance it: make skill high cost (125); Make ghost more expensive; In this way prevents mass ghost and seeker missile spam. Better an expensive unit with a good ability, that an economic unit without utility + Show Spoiler +I also did the rhyme in English T_T Consider also that this ability hasn't a 100% success! careful not spam the skill might lead you to run out of energy. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On December 19 2013 10:01 Vicissitude wrote: By the way... Is there any way to play SBow with your friends on the EU server? I've searched for some maps from time to time (search string: starbow) but haven't found anything. Goto "Arcade", type "Starbow" in the search field. A lot of maps with a red/white Starbow logo should appear. Just make sure to "create game" and not "play". It's EU that is the most updated usually. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
*sentinel The purpose of this unit is doing some light harass, backup detection and being a support unit to your army. Rather than giving a straight-up supporting role, why not try an indirect supporting role? I think the oracle in sc2 is very interesting, the only thing blizzard messed up is that they gave them an insane dps with their main spell => pro's mainly use it to kamikaze and kill tons of workers. I think the sentinel can become what blizzard wanted to make in the first place, a supporting unit that gives you some control over the game. And you only need max 2-3, no more. For this reason I think revelation would be a great addition to it's line-up. Being able to follow your opponent's movement is an underrated tool, it's basicaly maphack like scan. For example in pvt, terran opens fast CC into siege tanks, you pressure a bit with dragoons and you get a sentinel: this allows you to do some light harassment with the mines, afterwards you can dart in and out with the sentinel to check what techroute terran is going (going long game (armories + third), going 2base timing or going middle route with harass (dropships or basic vulturegroups)). Usually by this time toss can't be on the map anymore, but if you get a revalation off on either a dropship or those vultures you can actually move out on the map and try to out-maneuver them and control the game in this way. Other place where this would be really good: lategame it happens a lot that terran has a very big terrain covered with siegetanks/turrets/goliath's, in this case smart terrans will continuously snipe observers so you have no idea what you're actually gonna fight against if you try to attack into it. This is a situation where toss really lacks scouting, terran can move his back-line away and toss would not know at all, as a toss this sometimes feels like a gamble to fight into such an army. Revelation also comes in handy here, you dart in and throw a revelation (either losing the sentinel or not, it doesn't matter that much, you got the information you needed without committing and you make the terran feel less safe). These are only some examples for pvt, but I'm sure this could see play in pvz and pvp too. Dealing with reaverharass easier => less paranoid turtle => more action. Revalation on muta => very good! *science vessel For this unit I was thinking about something in the lines of a shockwave that has been suggested in other forms on other units before. And aoe missile that un-deploys the units affected. This idea is not that polished yet, but here is the reasoning. This ability ability is a bit similar to the old nerve jammer but less drastic. The old nerve jammer was instant and it was a huge 'fuck you' to the enemy once casted, your units acted retarded and you'd get slaughtered. Current nerve jammer is only a damage reduce, so i don't think it's that interesting (especially not vs P). Mind that it's not so hardcore as the old nerve jammer, someone that pays attention can quickly redeploy/reburrow his units and take minimal losses. So this could come in handy vs lurkers (in a more interesting way than what irradiate basically did), so you have a second ability vs zerg that is kinda useful. And it would come in handy in mech vs mech wars, for example distract the other player somewhere else with vultures or something, unsiege your siegeline, cast 2 shockwaves, move up and resiege. => an ability that rewards multitasking for both players. Why does this fit well on the SV? In pvt SV is already the answer to templar/archon and arbiter, it does not need another ability that is good vs P. With a weaker irradiate, SV is still useful in small numbers, but it doesn't become a mass unit like it was in tvz. This spell makes it have utility in TvT (detection vs mines is nice as well) in both a supporting role and harass (irradiate on workers). How do we make sure this ability does not become a 'spam the units with this missile until they die'? Make affected units immune to it for 10ish seconds. Feel free to make suggestions on polishing these abilities more. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + History repeats itself. I had this spell in the game before the summer. The main critiscm I received was that it prevented harassment and staled the game. You cast it on a bunch of enemy units and they reveal themself for X seconds. (30 or 60 or whatever) Revelation on Muta = Mutas won´t fly in before the ability ends Revelation on Vultures/Dropships/Banshees/Reapers = they won´t harass before the ability ends Reveleation on Warp prism + Reaver = no Reaver harass until the ability ends The defender will always be in position to deny the harassment/drop anyway. So the harasser will just wait until the ability has ended = no action. Does this mean that the ability can´t work? No. That was just the main issues that was raised at that time. @Vessel spell + Show Spoiler + This might work yes. It would be useful vs Tanks + Lurkers and maybe Warp Prism, since they are the only deployable units in the game. Keep in mind the Ghost can already do this with its Shock ability, at a single target. (Aka undeploy enemy Tanks) But Ghosts might receive a new spell anyway, for a couple of reasons. My only concern is that this spell on Nerve Jammer will be too narrow? It will be useful vs 2-3 kinds of units in the entire game. I willl play around in the editor to see if this can be further improved in some way. @Other Vessel spells people have suggested + Show Spoiler + - PDD from SC2. Maybe with a deploy-time of a couple of seconds to make it more important to position it before fights. - Some kind of pull/teleport ability for a cheap energy cost. Teleport or pull one target friendly unit within range 10 to the location of the Vessel. (Even sieged Siege Tanks) | ||
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