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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
I suggest better stats overall, more expensive and longer build-time. This well automatically make it feel more fragile since an expensive unit is something you want to protect more. This will also make it less massable. It should still be susceptible to scourge snipe so you have to baby-sit it. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
On December 20 2013 18:54 Xiphias wrote: I also think it is important to make vikings not to "mass - friendly" (like the Valkyrie). Like, you'd only need 3-4 max. I suggest better stats overall, more expensive and longer build-time. This well automatically make it feel more fragile since an expensive unit is something you want to protect more. This will also make it less massable. It should still be susceptible to scourge snipe so you have to baby-sit it. I think its more fun when its a unit you can actually use to harass your enemy also after you have dealt with the Mutalisk threat. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
It must of course not be the SC2 Tempest. Just use that unit as a base and then modify it to fit into Sbow. What advantages does that have over a Carrier? Btw, can unsiged tanks outrange Lurkers now (as in BW). If Irradiate gets nerfed, that's probably a neccesity. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
What advantages does that have over a Carrier? To be able to do some kind of micro, which the carrier cant | ||
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
I think it would be nice if they had a bit of utiltiy vs Marines and Speedlings as long as it has Zealots in front of it. I wouldn't mind seeing how 7 damage vs armored and medium with 10.5 vs light worked out. That would make them 4-shot probes and drones, thus also increase their utility as a harass-unit. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On December 20 2013 20:45 Foxxan wrote: They already do that To be able to do some kind of micro, which the carrier cant I would not say that. Even though the carrier are not as micro-able as they were in BW they are still micro-able. Especially after HoTS. More so than tempest imo. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
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isaachukfan
Canada785 Posts
I'm in favour of the stalkers which can 4-shot workers, reinforcing the stalkers role as a harassment unit is important if we want it to be separate from the dragoon, which is a core army unit. @The discussion of spells If spells being too powerful is a problem, I hate to say it, but wouldn't smartcast be an effective remedy to this situation. It seems that we are having a blanket problem with spells, which is understandable since they were almost directly taken from brood war with an integral mechanic removed (smartcast) if this were implemented, all spells would basically take a general nerf, which seems to be something that is needed anyway. Of course, I understand that smartcast was removed for a reason, which has probably been explained numerous times, but as I see it it could be an effective solution to our problem. Smartcast would also allow us to expand our possibilities with the spells we are looking to implement, since the spells will be no longer easy to cast, the problem of them hardcountering _____, will be heavily reduced, and thus we will have an easier time balancing them. (This was written with abduct in mind) @New ghost spell As I said above, smartcast would expand our possibilities for this new spell. I think this spell should help the ghost be a core unit of terran bio, helping it to fulfill the support role of a seige tank, except built from the barracks. A spell like SC2 HSM, (I think someone suggested this recently?) would be this kind of spell, but I don't think HSM would fit the ghost very well without a heavy rework of it's model. Perhaps Snipe? It would outrange lurkers and templar, allowing for us to have a bio unit that is able to deal with the other races main forms of AOE, and the ghost anti-mech spell could help it deal with Reavers and Siege Tanks, the other large scale forms of AOE in the game. Smartcast would prevent these from being spammed (a large problem with the spell in SC2) and if snipe counters zerg end-game units to well, we could simply make snipe ineffective against them What do you guys think? | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
yup, it's been brought up a couple times, but gossen doesn't want it i think. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
I would not say that. Even though the carrier are not as micro-able as they were in BW they are still micro-able. Especially after HoTS. More so than tempest imo. No they aint actually. Their micro is pure shit Like most I am more a fan of carrier than tempest. Yes so am i even if i wanna replace it with tempest The carrier suck with how he behaves right now, if it cant be fixed its much better to add tempest with 8range | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Not sure how i can describe this. You have many lurkers selected 50% Burrowed, 50% Unburrowed, now you can switch between them through tab Is it possible to remove the tab here, and instead u see 2buttons at the same time. 'Burrow' and 'Unburrow' button? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
To be able to do some kind of micro, which the carrier cant What type of micro can you do with the Tempest? Perhaps Snipe? It would outrange lurkers and templar, allowing for us to have a bio unit that is able to deal with the other races main forms of AOE, and the ghost anti-mech spell could help it deal with Reavers and Siege Tanks, the other large scale forms of AOE in the game. Smartcast would prevent these from being spammed (a large problem with the spell in SC2) and if snipe counters zerg end-game units to well, we could simply make snipe ineffective against them Snipe is boring. We need something that gives the opponent opportunities for countermicro. All these "click and immediate effect"-abilities almost always lead to bad gameplay. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:58 Hider wrote: What type of micro can you do with the Tempest? Target fire | ||
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isaachukfan
Canada785 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:58 Hider wrote: What type of micro can you do with the Tempest? Snipe is boring. We need something that gives the opponent opportunities for countermicro. All these "click and immediate effect"-abilities almost always lead to bad gameplay. Then perhaps we could work with the the snipe model, but apply a HSM like feel to it, for example "Ghost needs to prepare the shot for 3 seconds before it fires" while it's target has a targeting reticle placed on it to give the opponent time to flee. Then when the target goes past a certain range, the attack stops. | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
You can't target fire with Carrier (honest question I never used it). Then perhaps we could work with the the snipe model, but apply a HSM like feel to it, for example "Ghost needs to prepare the shot for 3 seconds before it fires" while it's target has a targeting reticle placed on it to give the opponent time to flee. Then when the target goes past a certain range, the attack stops. Maybe - But I just don't see why we couldn't make that splash-based as in HSM? Ofc as Johnny has pointed out, the Ghost then needs to be more expensive as it otherwise would be too spamable, but that's mostly a balance-issue as I see it. It is also worth pointing out that Seeker Missile in HOTS doesn't have any smartcast-problem related to it as it isn't optimal to mass spam it during battles (as opponent can just run away with all of his units). Instead, we see it used alot more carefully. Another thing I wonder - What would happen if the Ghost could use stim? In my opinion the awesome thing about stim is that it makes units a lot more microable. While Ghosts will always have some type of micro related to it due to its abilities, what downsides are there to making it even more microable by also adding stim? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On December 21 2013 02:47 Hider wrote: You can't target fire with Carrier (honest question I never used it). Literally you can but its in such a bad way. More or less, you sort of cant. in sbow When he target fires, he needs to wait till all interceptors shoot. That takes a very long time, if he moves while doing this the interceptors stop doing damage and fly straight to the carrier In bw, you target fire a unit and all interceptors attack instantly. If you move the carriers now the interceptors still attack(they do not move to the carrier). This method can make the carrier move in an "unleash range" which is 12range from the unit that is taking damage. To move through the steps in broodwar: Carriers targetfire a goliath, at 8range. Instantly the interceptors attack, and the carrier are free to move(the interceptors still attack). Carrier can move as far as 12range and interceptors still attack. Now if the carrier stays withing 12range of enemy units, he can switch target and the interceptors attack the new target. This is insanely cool and fun method. Now the "leash range" of 12, is probably impossible to fix. BUT even the "release all interceptors" seem to be fucking impossible to - if that is the case, then the carrier will suck, literally | ||
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Hider
Denmark9408 Posts
On December 21 2013 02:53 Foxxan wrote: Literally you can but its in such a bad way. More or less, you sort of cant. in sbow When he target fires, he needs to wait till all interceptors shoot. That takes a very long time, if he moves while doing this the interceptors stop doing damage and fly straight to the carrier In bw, you target fire a unit and all interceptors attack instantly. If you move the carriers now the interceptors still attack(they do not move to the carrier). This method can make the carrier move in an "unleash range" which is 12range from the unit that is taking damage. To move through the steps in broodwar: Carriers targetfire a goliath, at 8range. Instantly the interceptors attack, and the carrier are free to move(the interceptors still attack). Carrier can move as far as 12range and interceptors still attack. Now if the carrier stays withing 12range of enemy units, he can switch target and the interceptors attack the new target. This is insanely cool and fun method. Now the "leash range" of 12, is probably impossible to fix. BUT even the "release all interceptors" seem to be fucking impossible to - if that is the case, then the carrier will suck, literally Ok I guess we add the Tempest then as. But then it would need much more HP than in Sc2 with a much lower range in order to induce real battles rather than mass Goliaths attempting to chase the Tempest. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Cost: 550/250/6 123BT Range: 8 Damage: 30, attackcooldown 2 HP: 450/150, 4armor Thats 150 hp extra from carrier Slow movement speed: Goliath have 2.4~ Tempest: 1.7~ | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On December 21 2013 02:27 IeZaeL wrote: Anyone up to showcase the mod at Blizzard Map night in about 30 minutes ?? Kabel , are you on ? We might play on Tau Cross I doubt it as he said earlier he would not be online in a while  He might not even upload the map in a while then either come to think about it *cry* | ||
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EPT
