EPT
[A] Starbow - Page 479
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
Done some more testing w/ the effect of this splash. Results 1) If units, regardless of whether its Hydras, bio or Vultures is a bit spread out before they engage Collosus, they avoid taking any type of splash at all. 2) Some times when a-moving clumped up Vultures, they position them selves "unintelligently" so 2 or 3 Vultures take damage from Collosus each attack. This may be due to the pathing, but its also worth nothing that it doesn't happen always. 3) Vultures are cost effective vs Collosus if they don't take splash 4) Collosus can force the opponents units to be vulnerable to the line-splash by moving back (kiting), however when it attempts to kite, it loses the line-splash anyway. 5) An sc2-collosus targets 3 hellions w/e each attck which makes the Sc2-splash significantly better. Conclusion Line-splash is very unreliable, and will probably an average hit 1.5 targets per shot which is significantly below the 3 targets of the Sc2-collosus. It may have utility in narrow pasages, but so does both HT and Reavers). If the current splash stays, then it needs a big damage buff. Since it doesn't appear that the line-splash is noticeable better vs bio units than vs mech units, I believe an all-round damage buff won't lead too any significant imbalances. | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
On December 18 2013 02:49 Hider wrote: Collosus testings Done some more testing w/ the effect of this splash. Results 1) If units, regardless of whether its Hydras, bio or Vultures is a bit spread out before they engage Collosus, they avoid taking any type of splash at all. 2) Some times when a-moving clumped up Vultures, they position them selves "unintelligently" so 2 or 3 Vultures take damage from Collosus each attack. This may be due to the pathing, but its also worth nothing that it doesn't happen always. 3) Vultures are cost effective vs Collosus if they don't take splash 4) Collosus can force the opponents units to be vulnerable to the line-splash by moving back (kiting), however when it attempts to kite, it loses the line-splash anyway. 5) An sc2-collosus targets 3 hellions w/e each attck which makes the Sc2-splash significantly better. Conclusion Line-splash is very unreliable, and will probably an average hit 1.5 targets per shot which is significantly below the 3 targets of the Sc2-collosus. It may have utility in narrow pasages, but so does both HT and Reavers). If the current splash stays, then it needs a big damage buff. Since it doesn't appear that the line-splash is noticeable better vs bio units than vs mech units, I believe an all-round damage buff won't lead too any significant imbalances. Agreed. One of the main points for implementing line-splash was to make it less reliable damage. This has the positive effect of putting more focus on positioning and focus firing, but it needs more damage to make up for this worse attack. It also forces better splits - so that is a big positive. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On December 18 2013 03:20 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: Agreed. One of the main points for implementing line-splash was to make it less reliable damage. This has the positive effect of putting more focus on positioning and focus firing, but it needs more damage to make up for this worse attack. It also forces better splits - so that is a big positive. Im not sure it actually has a practical effect. I think that when you just a-move clumped up units vs the Sc2-collosus that it will hit way more than 3 units. Then it may actually target 5-6 units. So the reward for flanking vs Collosus is basically the same as in Sbow and in Sc2. The only real effect is that the line-splash is just much worse than the Sc2-Collosus. In my opinion it seems that the current Sbow-Collosus would probably be balanced if it had sc2-splash. But since Sbow splash is like 50% worse than Sc2-splash, the Sbow-collosus needs a 40-70% damage buff to make up for that. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
www.twitch.tv/sc2_starbow | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Zerg burrow on lurkers. When they burrow. They only get a deburrow. Even if some lurkers are not burrowed. And its on hotkey "u". Place it on E, R, G, or G or Somewhere closer to the left | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I aim to have it fixed asap. FOCK SLEEEEP & SCHOOL & WORK - -- - - - I GO FULL YOLO MODE! When they burrow. They only get a deburrow. Even if some lurkers are not burrowed. I don´t udnerstand. Can you take a print screen and upload a picture here in the thread? @Pathing Many comments regarding the pathing lately. I wish I could have the Starbow pathing in real life. I hate to clump up with other people and its lame when folk attack me in a tight blob . But ok, since I am a humble ruler, I will listen to the opinions of the citizens Poll: What do you think about the pathing? Please remove everything else in the game except the pathing (4) Pathing 4 pr3sid3nt! 1 1 (2) I love the pathing! (1) Please add more pathing! (1) Its the best pathing in any game in the known universe! (0) 8 total votes Your vote: What do you think about the pathing? (Vote): I love the pathing! | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
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Izerman
Sweden99 Posts
Kabel, your poll is broken | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
i didnt want to but something inside me.... If u write some stuff thats missing more clearly, like "half zerg" or something along those lines I will try and remember stuff | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
omg.. why cant i vote 500times in a row?!? Kabel, your poll is broken you have to be a Starbow+ member to unlock that feature If u write some stuff thats missing more clearly, like "half zerg" or something along those lines I will try and remember stuff I will use the old back-upfile, since that has all validators intact. Then I will look at the test map-file that is currently uploaded, and just rebuild everything new from it into the old file. (Like the Roach, Marauder, and the modified stats, bug fixes and everything that has ben added the last month.) I also have a document where I have written down things to fix/modify/look at. I´ll look through it too. Most of it is kinda simple to rebuild, just a bit annoying and time consuming >.< Hopefully I won´t miss anything. But if you think I´ll forgot something (or pretend to forget something that I don´t like he he he he ) just PM me a list of stuff you remember | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On December 18 2013 05:22 Foxxan wrote: Bug Zerg burrow on lurkers. When they burrow. They only get a deburrow. Even if some lurkers are not burrowed. And its on hotkey "u". Place it on E, R, G, or G or Somewhere closer to the left agree with this. Also Nurturing Swarm is bugged. When used on finished spine crawlers it doesn't heal them, but instead "nurtures them" which does absolutely nothing. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I am looking at it in the editor now. As far as I can tell, it does three things: 1. When units stand still more than 6 seconds, they spread out a bit from each other. This can be prevented if hold position is clicked. The purpose of this is to make it more clear where specific units are located, which allows more target fireing (for example when Mutas fly in and attack HT), it also reduces the density of the damage output in an area, which means that fights last longer. 2. Units are more likely to remain in formation than to fall back into a tight blob when they move. (Also helps to keep some space between units for the reasons above.) If players want to blob up their units, its possible by double clicking in an area. 3. When clumped up, units become 30% slower and move in a straight line rather than in a blob. The line-movement encourages more re-positioning before battles and gives more flanking opportunities towards the enemy. (But annoys the shit out of players in micro situations?) Maybe can we keep number 1 and 2. This would give us the normal smoothnes of the SC2 pathing, but still keep units more likely to remain in formations & also spread them out when standing still/moving. Do you have any comments December? Random picture: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i5mJPQK.jpg) | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
It makes u not able to do any micro number 1. doesnt work anymore, iam trying to reset the units so they move 100% movementspeed(it worked before), they still just move in 30% slower. edit: i misread, yes it do work to press hold here Lurker burrow You have 12lurkers selected. 5 of these are burrowed, the rest are on the ground. You will only see the button "deburrow", and not a burrow button. Optimal would be if both buttons would be seen. You click burrow->the lurkers on the ground burrows You click unburrow->the lurkers burrowed unburrow | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
@ Pathing. The auto-spread seems to be less problematic imo. I actually like the fact that units form a line since it gives a nice automatic defenders advantage. It forces you to position instead of A-move when you attack unless you have superior numbers. I can understand that others don't like it though, especially if it messes up micro. I guess: 1. is the auto-spread 2. is the magic box change and 3. is the "check-if-units-are-in-front-of-me" behavior. Also: Pathing for president! | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
#1 is inhibiting to players if it is too fast and in any way overrides normal movements. #2 is probably not bad - but testing different values would not hurt. #3 is bad if it takes effect in micro situations. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
Like you can see in yesterday's cast: I scout foxxan's lair morphing so I suspect he's skipping on units for a short time => I take my 16ish marines and pull some scv's with it (to tank damage) to hit a quick timing before he will have defenses up and in this way capitalize on my early lead by keeping dronecount low etc... Now I a-move them to the front of foxxan's base and i look away for 10 seconds to start the infrastructure for my transition to mech and I look back on minimap: i see a huge train of scv/marine... units took much longer to get there and the scv's arrive first because they are a tad faster than marines, but i can't do anything with those scv's yet because i only took em to tank away damage and block zergling movement, by the time all my marines arrive the sunken's are complete and my timing get completely slapped down by some lings, queens and 3 spines. With normal movement my timing would've hit much sooner, the saddest thing is that i could not have done any micro that would've made them arrive at the normal time => this is the frustrating part, the units act retarded and there isn't a thing you can do about it, you just watch in frustration. It's mainly bio, zealot/dragoon or zergling/hydra armies that get hit by this system, dumbing down the AI does more bad than good, because you spend more time to fight the retarded AI than spending it on the fun micro (like marinesplitting etc) and on multitasking. If we want people from sc2 to like this game, this pathing needs to go out, people will get frustrated by it and not bother playing the game. | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
Make unit slow down 10-15% instead of 30% - Less agressive algorithm might be the best of both worlds. Units are only slowed if another unit is directly in their path (hard to implement i guess) Slowdown only occurs when magic box is broken. 5 second delay on slowdown. I'm just throwing ideas out there. It might be the best solution to drop this feature altogether, but we should at least see if we can't tweak it to be more forgiving. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
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