EPT[A] Starbow - Page 462
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
On November 12 2013 05:56 [SC]Django wrote: I played a few games and I have a few suggestions: Terran: 1. Terran Scan cost 50 mana, other abilities in Orbital Command cost 25 and 35 2. Remove Firebat 3. Add to Factory Hellbat 4. Add Marauder (more option in PvT or PvZ) mix, remix not only bio and mech Protoss: 5. Remove Dragon 6. Add Stalker and blink upgrade 7. Add 1 more unit to Robotics Faciliy add Immortal and upgrade shield Zerg: 9. Add Roach Please put the test map with these changes. I could see how it comes out in the game. All tested before... Some of these things kinda worked, some didn't, but right now we are focussing on getting a base game functional before revisiting Stalkers, Marauders or any other things. Please be mindful that this mod has been developed for a long time, and most obvious additions to the current game have been tried and most likely failed (Stalkers have historically been a pain to balance). | ||
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CutTheEnemy
Canada373 Posts
I'd rather see a dmg reduction to give opponents more time to react. Why not just start the spell with a marker, like a shadow or some static, that lingers for 1s before the spell hits in full force and let the spell's effect last a little longer or be larger AOE to compensate for the warning effect. More positional micro by quite a bit imo. Gives the defending player a chance to react, then heavily punishes a failure to react, while creating small zones where its too dangerous to enter for a bit, which can be used positionally, even in a forcefield way but with a choice to enter the zone at a cost. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On November 13 2013 07:44 Foxxan wrote: Bad game Post better ones! (I thought it was quite fun). | ||
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On November 13 2013 08:13 kuroshiro wrote: Glad to see sb still going strong :-) I didn't buy hots so haven't been able to play, but does anyone know what the new spawning feature announced at blizzcon will mean for those of us that only own wol? Will I be able to play all the sb maps a long as I'm in a group with people who own hots? That's how I understood the announcement, and that would be great! You've got it correct. And because everyone who plays SBOW at the moment has a copy of hots I am certain you would not have a problem being able to play. | ||
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isaachukfan
Canada785 Posts
On November 13 2013 07:44 Foxxan wrote: Bad game I found it very entertaining, it looks shows how starbow has successfully mixed the best of Brood War (positional play, forced aggression) and the best of HOTS (Mobility over all). These are two very difficult concepts to mix since they are almost opposite, yet it seems starbow has integrated them well, which leads to an exciting, fast and action packed game, as well as a strategic game. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 13 2013 11:30 isaachukfan wrote: I found it very entertaining, it looks shows how starbow has successfully mixed the best of Brood War (positional play, forced aggression) and the best of HOTS (Mobility over all). These are two very difficult concepts to mix since they are almost opposite, yet it seems starbow has integrated them well, which leads to an exciting, fast and action packed game, as well as a strategic game. You mean the speed on dropship? Thats the only thing that is sc2, rest is broodwar | ||
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 13 2013 12:53 Laertes wrote: Foxxan, that is really inaccurate, tomorrow Kabel will clarify what's going on with BW vs SC2. Well i know but we talked about tvt that was just showed | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On November 13 2013 11:30 isaachukfan wrote: I found it very entertaining, it looks shows how starbow has successfully mixed the best of Brood War (positional play, forced aggression) and the best of HOTS (Mobility over all). These are two very difficult concepts to mix since they are almost opposite, yet it seems starbow has integrated them well, which leads to an exciting, fast and action packed game, as well as a strategic game. Good! Glad you liked it! | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
I'd consider looking at Starbow again then.  | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On November 14 2013 00:15 Xiphias wrote: Yes, I have advocated this on my stream as well. If it costs 25 energy, then it should have a tad more punsh to it. Yeh. My major concern here isn't actually related to balance, but more to "feel". It just felt wrong to spend APM activating stuff when it gives out such a low DPS. For instance, imagine marine/medi dropping in zerg base. Activating the queen and using it to attack is just a waste of APM and energy. I think its much better to retreat. Personally, I think it would be nice if we could have a little micro-war vs Queens and Marine/Medi. May a combo of A) More microable Queen and B) Small splash damage to the Queens attack would work well. If it then becomes too good, I wouldn't mind increasing the energy cost to 35 or something like that (if that's the case). | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I will just write a report on whats going on at the moment. Some of you have maybe heard this already, but I say it again just to avoid missunderstandings. Starbow is indeed a lot like BW now. The game is stable, quite balanced, most bugs have been fixed and there are a couple of extra features for each race that was not available in BW. Based on the latest disussion and your PMs to me, most concerns seems to be around minor topics, for example - Queen attack too weak, Nerve jammer might need buff, Reapers too bad, Spider mines are bugged and so on. All of these things are tweakable and can be fixed without the need of reworking the game in a broader way. In other words, the core gameplay seems to work ok and is decently stable. The remaining issues can be taken care off. For those who do not know, I took this direction a while ago on purpose - I removed everything that felt a bit odd or had too large impact on the balance, like Marauder, Stalker etc, and focused on getting the base game together, with a good connection to the BW balance. We now have a safe game. BUT, I know some of you, me included, think Sbow feels a bit too.. empty. The playstyles and meta-game from BW work quite well, and there are not that many new tools for players to use to invent new strategies / build orders / creative things. Some will think that is perfectly fine, since BW was so great and deep anyway. Others will find the game feeling old very fast, since there is not that much new stuff to explore. Thereby will I release one last major design patch, as a test map. (Just as I did this summer.) It will contain some new content for the game, without reworking any of the existing units. SC1 into BW into Sbow. The fundamental unit balance shall be maintained, but ofc will new things affect the game. Just as new things in BW affected SC1. (And yet barely anything from SC1 was reworked to make BW units fit.) Test patch thoughts: >>>+ Show Spoiler + The purpose of the next test-patch: - Number one purpose is to try to make the game more fun to both play and observe. We have an ok game now. This is an attempt to take the next step. One last moon landing where I launch the shuttle. This is achieved by adding new content which aims to: - Broaden the game & available playstyles. - Room for a new meta game to take shape. - More room to explore the game and be innovative. - New units to use, new micro potential. The "new" units are based on some important criteria: - Approach and improve match-up "problems" from BW. (Just as the Sentinel made it possible for P to go early Stargate vs T or P, which so far seems to have been a fun thing for the game.) - Not break the BW balance too hard in any obvious way, especially early. (Almost all of the new units will be mid or late game.) - All units intend to benefit a lot from micro, work worse when deathballed, and shall preferably be useful in many situations throughout the game. (And not be too niche or narrow.) - All units must feel like Starcraft units and be familiar for both BW and Sc2 players, preferably without overlapping too much with units already in Sbow. - And a lot of other things I try to consider, that I think is important and fun. Things I try to reach for, even though I won´t succeed in every area for every unit. One last large design test patch to try things out, especially some of the old stuff that got removed, in a new shape that will hopefully fit better into the game. Then I will "release" Sbow, either with or without the content in the test patch. Maybe it ends up kinda as the game already is, but with some fixed numbers. Or maybe with some of the new stuff. In either way, the game will go "public" within a few weeks. From that point, maybe future patches will need to be released. But not patches that reshape the entire game. I think I can have the test patch up on sunday. Apart from this, I am currently working on the last bugs in the normal Starbow mod-file. Here is a summary of the current problems I´ve been told about: - Nerve Jammer too bad and annoying (for the AI ?) - Dark swarm too boring for the gameplay. - Reapers too bad since they require Tech lab. - Queen attack too weak or expensive to activate. - Vulture micro is bugged? - Spider mines act strange - Nurturing swarm bugged on some structures - No good Carrier micro - Smartcasting or not? (I consider to actually try without it in the test map. I see some advantages and disadvantages with it.) If anyone has suggestions for solutions about any of those problems, feel free to bring your thoughts, as usual. | ||
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kuroshiro
United Kingdom378 Posts
On November 13 2013 09:27 decemberscalm wrote: You've got it correct. And because everyone who plays SBOW at the moment has a copy of hots I am certain you would not have a problem being able to play. That's great, anyone know when spawning becomes active? | ||
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
On November 14 2013 06:09 kuroshiro wrote: That's great, anyone know when spawning becomes active? What the hell? Isn't spawning in the game since like... half a year or so ago? Cause like a friend's friend has only got WoL but when we were playing 3v3s just the other day for teh lulz, I'm pretty sure that shit was HotS o.O | ||
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