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I understand the concern here. Since its usually not very good to lay 1-2. But it can be very good to lay 5+ with many units around
Indeed, but I think its much better to only have a couple of SV's vs protoss and use them for EMP. I think something like 5-10 SV's takes up way too much supply. In terms of supply, I rather have like 6 extra tanks than 4 extra SV's.
So in most battles you have maybe just 100-300 energy available for Nerve Jammer, and since it is so weak it feels better to just save the energy for another day.
Iam curious, what would happen if instead of buffing slowzealots. We give them easier access to their speedupgrade?
Yeh I also considered what would happen if we put legspeed at Cybercore. But that may just be harder to balance + it will also remove everything from the twilight building. Regarding reducing the BT of legspeed - Then it has to be by quite a lot in order to have an impact.
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Yeah, i actually meant cheaper to get it and faster, not change where the upgrade are.
Yeah. probably but reducing the price also affects alot.
Its 70bt, 150/150->
45BT, 100/100
balance aside, in theory protoss could go more heavy zealot. Maybe compete with the hydralisks. Dunno
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I really hope they meant the BW sound also
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Queens speed-upability is bugged. I think it just speeds up animation but not the actual tech. You don't actual get lair tech faster. The animaiton is just done faster.
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It is only supposed to work to speed up buildings in production or morphing buildings, i think it's in the tooltip.
(It works as transfuse on completed buildings)
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It speeds up the morphing of the lair research upgrade - but its bugged. It doesn't speed up the actual tech, only the animation.
So even though the lair-animation is ready, you can't build a spire.
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ooh, ah yes, i know what you mean, i've noticed something like that now you mention it. I came across the issue with trying to build lurkers, but i forgot about it after the game.
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That would explain why my Greater Spire was just derping around that one game! AHA!
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Some thoughts from a discussion between me, HideR, Dirtybag and Fantasy:
1. Channel time for casting spells feels bad and forced. We all agreed on this it seems.
2. Mutalisk may clump too much. Dec, is it possible to make them just a very tad less clumped without the auto separation derping them? They deal sooo much dmg now since they clump up perfectly (with more than 11 in one group) and they are also very hard to separate vs irradiate.
3. My own thought: If we want to nerf spells to compensate for smart-casting I'd rather see a dmg reduction to give opponents more time to react. Like cut down dps on storm and irradiate instead of cutting down range and casting time (I mean increasing casting time...). When it comes to Dark Swarm, I'd rather see the cloud hav a smaller radius than the casting range and casting time being nerfed so you must be more careful and calculated to use them.
I guess one concern here is the deathball, but I really think the deathball is long gone from Starbow and won't return even if some AOE spells are nerfed in dmg. I am not talking about huge changes btw, only slight ones.
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@storm:
I disagree here, storm should be strong on your few first ht, to hold of zerg timings for example. A weaker storm with smartcast promotes deathball play (like sc2 hots), this is one of the reasons you almost never see 2base storm openings in pvz. A strong storm without smartcast promotes positional play.
a regular situation you have in pvz hots is zerg switches into heavy muta and toss doesn't have the infrastructure ready to switch into pheonixes, you will always see an allin timing by toss resulting in baseraces, where toss just sacks his own base because ht can't do shit when alone (a part of the problem is the insane muta regen). These are lame games to both observe and play.
A stronger storm could make the toss able to cost-effectively defend his bases if he reacts quick and good, giving him the option to play out the game instead of flipping a coin with an allin-attack.
I've said so before and i'm actually against dumbing down the ai in most cases, but removing smart-cast would help starbow so much with its problems and it would raise the skill-cap without adding meaningless/trivial actions.
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Well we are keeping smartcasting it seems and we are trying to nerf the spells to compensate for smartcasting (to my knowledge). My concern is that casting range and casting time is nerfed instead of dmg. IF something should be nerfed to compensate for smartcasting then I think it should be dmg. But not by much.
I don't think it will promote much deathball as a result. I think we're way past that with all the other stuff in Starbow.
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Just a small update:
- Channel time removed on spells who already offers some kind of counter micro. The only spells that still have channel time are: Recall, Plague and Dark swarm since they are instant effects. (Maybe I add a missile for Plague later, since that is even more micro potential, and something more will probably be done with Dark Swarm too.)
- Null ward values fine tuned a little bit:
- Summon time reduced from 10 to 5 seconds. (More combat micro potential)
- Cast cooldown reduced from 30 sec to 15 sec.
Mutalisks gained a low seperation radius value. (0.15)
- This means that if the Mutas are stacked, the controlling player can click Stop and they will slowly slide apart. If he/she presses Hold instead, they will remain really tight when standing still.
This can surely be improved further, especially by Dec who is the micro-wizard. It at least makes it possible to seperate vs Irradiate now. (I know seperation radius is not good for air units, but when I played around in the editor, it still felt nice to micro vs enemy units. But if this feels weird ingame vs human opponent, it is easy to revert it and go for another solution.)
- Some minor bug fixes
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Just gonna bump two Starbow replays here, since some people want to see how the game looks at this stage:
I will try and respond to Reaper, smart cast and some other debated topics when I get room to do it.
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That first replay, so fun.
Even got to see a moment where siege tank turrets came into play.
(Siege tank has no back dirty  )
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I dunno man, the eco seems low? Or?
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I played a few games and I have a few suggestions:
Terran:
1. Terran Scan cost 50 mana, other abilities in Orbital Command cost 25 and 35
2. Remove Firebat
3. Add to Factory Hellbat
4. Add Marauder (more option in PvT or PvZ) mix, remix not only bio and mech
Protoss:
5. Remove Dragon
6. Add Stalker and blink upgrade
7. Add 1 more unit to Robotics Faciliy add Immortal and upgrade shield
Zerg:
9. Add Roach
Please put the test map with these changes. I could see how it comes out in the game.
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Almost all those things have pretty much been tested already and the ideas then abandoned cause it didn't work out for the better in the end. At least that's my take on that stuff.
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bw values
Hydra range 150/150
Quite big in the opening. Especially in zvp while they go for a fast hydrapush
Warpprism speed upgrade, 200/200, 159,9BT
Right now, getting the speedupgrade is mostly a
nobrainer while going warpprism cuz its so fast BT and very cheap
Goliath range upgrade: 100/100.
Their starting range on air is 5, and upgrade give 3+range. I understand the starting range at 6 here, cuz of protoss stargate openings
Just stating some reasons, maybe you are aware of these things, i dont know.
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Was thinking of the carrier, while i in the tester got my eyes on the "release interceptors faster" upgrade for them. How about making that upgrade release them instantly? It would be the same affect as if the interceptors never walked inside the carrier in bw...Maybe, no idea now how the carrier work is going. Just a "suggestion", dont know if it would work even
Shield reg on protoss units seem fast. I tested probe reg in bw, and it was hard to tell a difference.
Although, i tested the archon shieldreg a month back or more and it seems faster in starbow.
Btw,
plasma shields upgrade: 200/200->300/300->400/400 in bw
and
Zerg upgrades on evolution chamber is off with a few seconds right now, it should be the same as terran and protoss 100% in bt
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EPT
