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[A] Starbow - Page 464

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
November 18 2013 17:47 GMT
#9261
Small patch uploaded

- New Vulture micro by December
- Queen dmg increased from 4 to 6. (Remember the activation cost.)
- Reaper dmg buffed from 5x2 to 6x2. (Allows it to kill workers in one less shot in some situations. Still requires tech lab)
- Some upgrade costs and BT adjusted.
- Some random bug fixes
- All movement and attack speed reduced by 7% for a slightly lower combat pace. (I finally got this done!)
Here is why: >>>+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304955&currentpage=463#9253
<<<

I did not touch some of the spells yet. Nor the Spider mine. Nor some other remaining editor issues I struggle with. The test map patch is still under construction aswell.
Creator of Starbow
Vicissitude
Profile Joined October 2013
Sweden28 Posts
November 18 2013 18:17 GMT
#9262
On November 19 2013 02:32 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
One thing that I do want to mention on the subject of promoting StarBow is the fact that Lalush's thread on micro seems to have given a lot of positive attention towards the mod. If we hurry with getting the last things in place (not rushing it before its done ofc) we might get a good running start from this attention. Bush's post tells me that he probably started noticing us due to that thread, and I am sure there are many more looking towards StarBow to see how we have done things.


I'm guilty as charged.
Unless stated otherwise, my posts are from the view of someone who watches SC2 and want to improve it from that perspective, and those opinions will most often have little to do with what experience when I actually play.
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
November 18 2013 19:09 GMT
#9263
On November 19 2013 02:47 Kabel wrote:
Small patch uploaded

- Old Vulture micro by December
....


This might make vultures quite a bit more powerful. We've had instant acceleration on vultures before. Amazing agility on such a powerful unit. Hopefully all will be well in practice, stats were different back then when we tried it I believe.
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
November 18 2013 20:45 GMT
#9264
Unit test map "Starbow Tester 2.0" Updated!
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-18 21:31:48
November 18 2013 21:24 GMT
#9265
I used to argue for higher game speed but now I have changed my mind after I saw the effects. Last time I played starbow I thought stuff was too extreme without being able to pin point what it was that made it feel off. I think Kabel is right with this one. At least on the size of maps we play on, in a 200 supply game, with macro mechanics putting economy somewhere between BW and SC2, it is the correct choice.

I still am curious what would happen with smartcast off. Sometimes when I have played Starbow I have gotten the feeling that especially Protoss need more effective AoE in the midgame. I really would like to see how smartcast off and a really strong storm spell would work in Starbow (increase radius even more, maybe even damage).

With unlimited selection it's easy enough to dodge. And strong spellcasters I think are always stronger in defense than they are in offense. I've always wanted this dynamic back in SC2.
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-18 22:07:27
November 18 2013 22:07 GMT
#9266
Kabel, if not is hard, may be useful added a button of smart casting (enable/disable) on lobby, as sc2bw. In this way we can do several tests without the need to use the editor to activate / deactivate the smart cast.
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-18 22:25:38
November 18 2013 22:25 GMT
#9267
On November 19 2013 02:32 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
One thing that I do want to mention on the subject of promoting StarBow is the fact that Lalush's thread on micro seems to have given a lot of positive attention towards the mod. If we hurry with getting the last things in place (not rushing it before its done ofc) we might get a good running start from this attention. Bush's post tells me that he probably started noticing us due to that thread, and I am sure there are many more looking towards StarBow to see how we have done things.

I hope you guys won't get mad at me x.X

Starbow ♥

//edit//Upss words are hard.
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 14:27:21
November 19 2013 14:21 GMT
#9268
HUGE NEWS FOR STARBOW

If I understood this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435940 correctly, then it will soon be FREE to play arcade games in SC2 e.g. Starbow!

Edit: Nvm, you only need the starter edition, but that's still A LOT cheaper than having to buy WoL + HoTS

Edit 2: No, Starter edition IS FREE! YEY!
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Vicissitude
Profile Joined October 2013
Sweden28 Posts
November 19 2013 14:34 GMT
#9269
On November 19 2013 23:21 Xiphias wrote:
HUGE NEWS FOR STARBOW

If I understood this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435940 correctly, then it will soon be FREE to play arcade games in SC2 e.g. Starbow!

Edit: Nvm, you only need the starter edition, but that's still A LOT cheaper than having to buy WoL + HoTS

Edit 2: No, Starter edition IS FREE! YEY!


Your exuberance is really cute, hehe. Still, can't blame you since this really is good news!
Unless stated otherwise, my posts are from the view of someone who watches SC2 and want to improve it from that perspective, and those opinions will most often have little to do with what experience when I actually play.
Uvantak
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Uruguay1381 Posts
November 19 2013 14:49 GMT
#9270
On November 19 2013 23:21 Xiphias wrote:
HUGE NEWS FOR STARBOW

If I understood this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435940 correctly, then it will soon be FREE to play arcade games in SC2 e.g. Starbow!

Edit: Nvm, you only need the starter edition, but that's still A LOT cheaper than having to buy WoL + HoTS

Edit 2: No, Starter edition IS FREE! YEY!

I thought you knew about this since blizzcon! :O
Also the dependencies (mods) for the maps will be interchangeable if i understood it correctly, that means that you can upload the Starbow mod to battle.net and i can download it and apply it to my melee maps, that way the amount of melee maps available for starbow at any given time becomes.... well limitless!
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Profile Joined December 2010
Denmark697 Posts
November 19 2013 16:12 GMT
#9271
Yea, basically everything about the new arcade system is benefitting mods like StarBow. If only Blizzard would remove some of the hardcoded unit behaviors
Go try StarBow on the Arcade. TL thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440661
Sumadin
Profile Joined August 2011
Denmark588 Posts
November 19 2013 16:21 GMT
#9272
From the looks of things, Starbow will also fit into the hole extension mod thingy. They also say that they might do a complete Brood war conversion extension mod which would leave much of our work "redundant"...

We should consider if we want to prepare for converting to that format. In either case there should be some degree of interest in our converted Brood war maps. Assuming Blizzard doesn't do that part as well.
The basic key to beating a priest is playing a deck that is terrible.
[SC]Django
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland44 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 18:43:54
November 19 2013 18:43 GMT
#9273
Add more normal maps. Maybe the mappool sc2 or diffrent ?
This is the biggest problem at this point StarBow
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 18:51:39
November 19 2013 18:48 GMT
#9274
On November 20 2013 03:43 [SC]Django wrote:
Add more normal maps. Maybe the mappool sc2 or diffrent ?
This is the biggest problem at this point StarBow


It would be good for "familiarity". The problem with that, however, are the BW stats. We pretty much have 100% BW stats for the basic units (except for the 7% speed/attack reduction). After heavy map analyses and a lot of games on SC2'esk maps we have learned that BW stats simply does not make for interesting gameplay on SC2 maps. BW maps are generally smaller and have shorter rush distance. With the longer SC2 rush distances all games became a turtlefest where fast expansion was never punished in any match-up. Also, BW units are a lot more positional and SC2 maps usually have a lot more open expansions which are harder to defend with few units.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9433 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 18:54:30
November 19 2013 18:54 GMT
#9275
On November 20 2013 03:43 [SC]Django wrote:
Add more normal maps. Maybe the mappool sc2 or diffrent ?
This is the biggest problem at this point StarBow


No Sc2 maps will suck for Starbow. Sc2 map pool is also bad, but its neccesary for Sc2 due to poor game deisgn.
[SC]Django
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland44 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 19:55:36
November 19 2013 19:55 GMT
#9276
sc2 maps but not blizzard it's very good. BW maps so bad.
This is my opinion.
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-19 20:41:55
November 19 2013 20:40 GMT
#9277
Just an update on what is left to fix in the base game for Starbow:

- Baneling full dmg vs shields
- Spider mines (I might have found a solution to the bugs, and it also adds more micro. Will look more into it soon.)
- Carrier micro
- Balance/adjust some spells - Dark Swarm, Irradiate, Psi Storm, Nerve Jammer etc.
- Maybe do something more with the Ghost and its Shock-spell. (Feels kinda lame)
- Nurturing swarm bug (Doesn´t work on Lair, Hive, Greater Spire or Lurker den)
- Lots of graphical improvements + tooltip descriptions (XiA will help me with that later on when he gets time.)
- Lots of smaller bugs + other kinds of tweaks that might be needed.

Regarding why I want to keep Nurturing Swarm at the Queen for Zerg:
>>>+ Show Spoiler +

Each race currently have ways to:
- speed up worker production (Calldown SCV, Inject, Chrono boost)
- speed up army production (Overcharge, Inject, Chrono boost)
- speed up tech production (Switch tech labs, Nurturing Swarm, Chrono boost)

The strength of all of those macro mechanics are almost even between the races in all of the above areas, and they offer APM in macro, and they speed up the production pace a bit. (The "action" starts sooner.) Without Nurturing Swarm, Zerg has no way to boost their tech tree development.

Hopefully will I find a solution to it.
<<<

When all of the above is fixed, I think the "safe" version of Sbow will be complete.

Regarding the test-patch:

>>>+ Show Spoiler +
I will however add one last seperate test-patch to the game, with 1-2 extra units per race, to see how the game unfolds. Atm Starbow is quite a lot like BW. I personally think the game will be more fun with some additional content, IF the "new" units fit into the game in a meaningful way! So the test-patch will be uploaded as soon as I get enough time to complete it, and we can try it for maybe 1-2 weeks. If it seems to be ok, it will be included in the "real" Starbow. If the test-patch sucks hard, nothing of it will be included. Then Sbow will go public!
<<<

Creator of Starbow
decemberscalm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1353 Posts
November 20 2013 04:07 GMT
#9278
On November 20 2013 04:55 [SC]Django wrote:
sc2 maps but not blizzard it's very good. BW maps so bad.
This is my opinion.

Most sc2 maps poorly suite current Starbow game play.

For one they are simply too big.

Bases are meant to be defended with mobile armies in sc2, not well placed static D, walls and aoe units.

Generally sc2 maps have "lanes" of travel where entire 200/200 SC2 armies are able to fight and fit in.
Starbow armies despite being smaller take up a lot more space, bigger fighting areas are generally needed.


Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
November 20 2013 06:33 GMT
#9279
Speaking of maps. I think the maps we have now are good in terms of distances and lay-out, but they look a bit n00bish in terms of aesthetics. (Mostly my fault). Except Winter Spirit, good job on that one Dec!

So if any skilled mapmaker want to do an aesthetic overhaul to our map-pool I would welcome that!

ONE RULE however: It is important that the aesthetics do not distract from game-play. So try and stay moderate.
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Sumadin
Profile Joined August 2011
Denmark588 Posts
November 20 2013 09:55 GMT
#9280
If you are talking about maps, then I would still like some feedback on the one I presented on the map thread.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418055&currentpage=3#42

I don't have the time or experience to do that overhaul for the other maps through.
The basic key to beating a priest is playing a deck that is terrible.
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