EPT[A] Starbow - Page 451
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
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ftm
Australia47 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I will upload it when I get home, ca 7-8 hours from now. It will contain: - the "new" macro mechanics for all races. (As I have written about) - new second spell for the Sentinel (Instead of Safeguard) - Adjusted Abduct (Want to try how it feels) - Devourers fixed to correspond better with BW balance (Currently Corsairs > Devourers) Basic overview of the races: + Show Spoiler + Marine Firebat Medic - Matrix Reaper - Can upgrade Bomb ability Ghost - Shock Vulture Tank Gioliath Viking - Splash dmg, can upgrade speed. Banshee Dropship Vesel - Nerve Jammer, EMP and Irradiate. BC + Show Spoiler + Zealot Dragoon HT - Hallucination and Storm DT Archon Observer Reaver Warp Prism Corsair - Graviton beam Sentinel - Null ward + new spell Scout - Phase missile who destroys energy Carrier Arbiter + Show Spoiler + Zergling Baneling Hydralisk Lurker Viper - Ensnare, adjusted Abduct, Consume structure Muta Scourge - 20% Splash dmg Defiler - Dark Swarm, Plague, Consume Ultralisk Guardian Devourer - Gives buff as in BW. Still has the Contaminate ability for the ground. Most of it is BW. Nothing should be too crazy. (No Roach or anything.) The races are kinda complete like this. Just need to fine tune some things, fix some upgrades, abilities, bugs, graphic stuff, balance on some new stuff. ' Large known problems left to fix, that are beyond my editor skills: + Show Spoiler + - Add dodgeable missiles to Vikings (for more interesting air combats. Maybe can be added to all air units?) - Fix Spider mines - Carrier micro - Hallucination bug (They take no dmg from units who deal explosive and concussive damage) - Make the Defiler model able to burrow - Make all attacks able to deal full dmg vs shields Potential balance solutions to the new stuff: + Show Spoiler + Matrix on Medics are too strong - make the upgrade be available later in the game, make each Medic only have 1-3 Matrixes to cast (Like Spider mines) Reapers are too bad in the midgame - if the bomb ability is not enough, the Reaper can also get a speed bonus from it so it gets more map presence. (And I´ve seen the bomb ability do brutal things..) Nerve jammer shuts down Lurkers too hard! - make it not affect burrowed ground units. Vikings hard counters Mutalisks - add dodgeable missiles Massed Corsairs with Graviton beam are too good vs ground armies - make non-light units who are lifted by Graviton beam take MUCH less dmg from Corsairs. (Which makes it better at sniping workers & disable specific units, rather than killing stuff.) Scouts are too good early with the Phase missile, and easy shuts down Terran air harassment/drops - make Scout require Fleet beacon. Scourge with splash is too good! - I like that all basic air units deal splash dmg (Corsair, Viking, Scourge) since it forces more splitting and punishes air deathballs. But the splash dmg and radius can always be adjusted. (It deals 20% now) Queen shuts down early attacks and scouting - Make the Queen able to activate its attack via an ability. Costs 25 energy. Lasts X seconds. (In fact, I have actually built this ability already.. but I can not get it to work properly >.<) Things I would like to get into the game as well: + Show Spoiler + - Marauder (to make Bio and Bio+Mech a better option in TvP and TvT) - Roach (Give options to the massable all-round Hydra.) - Stalker/Twilight unit (A mobile unit who adds more early map presence, harassment/skirmish potential, makes PvP better and adds unit composition diversity) - One more spell at Medic. Preferably something that makes Bio+mech combinations better in TvT and TvP. - One more unit at Robotic facility. (It feels so empty..) - One more spell, or a better spell, at the Ghost. But it is hard. So maybe I don´t do anything of this. Anyway, it would be fun if some of you could come online tonight and try mainly the macro mechanics. It will be uploaded around 20.00 CET. (7 hours from now) Ps. The differences between the normal maps and the test map are: - Test map have macro mechanics, new Sentinel spell, adjusted Abduct, fixed Devourers. Everything else is the same. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Also, can you add the "normal" macro mechanics to the MOD? The maps have no macro mechanics at all now, not even the ability to make queens. Also I am texturing "pathfinder" as we speak  Edit, yey post # 1k! | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Also, can you add the "normal" macro mechanics to the MOD? The maps have no macro mechanics at all now, not even the ability to make queens . I try to avoid adding something new to the normal maps, since that genereates a lot of frustration. So I aim to make everything new first be in the test map, so we can try it there. Which also allows us to compare how the game feels with and without macro mechanics. If it turns out that the macro mechanics are broken or flawed, then it will be no big deal since they are in the test map. If they instead are in the normal maps, well.. then suddenly the whole game and every map become broken! Nice lurker you have there, sir! : ) | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
For medics, maybe change the way matrix works and make the shield's health equal to the maximum health of the unit it is cast upon. (or maybe with a multiplier, or some formula to make it exponential, f.e. marine gets 50-ish health extra and tank gets 150 or 200). This makes it less strong on bio and stronger on mech units => succesfully dealing with 2 problems. For corsairs: the problem is that lift in combination with effective anti-light dps becomes too good at dealing with light/medium ground units if you have enough lifts. And the normal reactions would be hydra/marine/goliath to deal with them. Toss now gets rewarded for massing even more corsairs. This dynamic makes it a numbers game where the protoss always has the upper hand because he has the mobility and can choose when to fight. Therefor i think lift on corsair is fundamentally broken considering massed corsairs also rape most air-units. For scout: I think the problem lies purely with phase missile being too strong, there is near to no counter-micro possible. Targetable feedback-ish abilities make for problems in general. (See shitty dynamic of ghost vs templar in sc2, it comes down to being a millisecond quicker) Nerve jammer: agreed. Roach: I don't think this unit is needed. I rather see mainly hydra's with more complex army movements (flanks/drops/...) than focussing on reaching an optimal combination of roach/hydra. | ||
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[SC]Django
Poland44 Posts
- Marauder (to make Bio and Bio+Mech a better option in TvP and TvT) - Roach (Give options to the massable all-round Hydra.) - Stalker/Twilight unit (A mobile unit who adds more early map presence, harassment/skirmish potential, makes PvP better and adds unit composition diversity) - One more spell at Medic. Preferably something that makes Bio+mech combinations better in TvT and TvP. - One more unit at Robotic facility. (It feels so empty..) - One more spell, or a better spell, at the Ghost. But it is hard. So maybe I don´t do anything of this. It is not difficult. This is Good Idea Kabel. Give more option's and strategy. Right now everything is going in the direction of brood war style and that I do not like. | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Scaled Pathfinder by Xiphias is also uploaded. Anyone wanna come online and play? | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Iam on. Empty in channel right now | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Upgrade Nexus - 100 minerals - 35 sec BT - Starts with 50 energy - Max energy 100 - Requires Gateway - CB lasts 20 seconds, boosts by 50% and costs 15 energy. - Rift cooldown 60 seconds, costs 50 energy. Queen - 150 minerals - 40 sec BT - Starts with 50 energy - Max energy 100 - Requires Pool - Inject lasts 24 seconds, boosts Larva by 50% and costs 15 energy. - Creep tumor 25 energy - Nurturing swarm costs 25 energy, heals 75 life OR speed up morphing structure by 50% during 20 seconds. Orbital command - 125 minerals - 40 sec BT - Starts with 50 energy - Max energy 100 - Requires Barrack - Calldown SCV cooldown 30 sec, costs 25 energy and 50 minerals. - Overcharge costs 15 energy, speeds up target Barrack, Factory or Starport by 50% for 15 seconds. - Scan 25 energy. Terran can build Reactors again, but they require E-bay. (To avoid so the early game becomes broken.) Overcharge is not super fun, but I can not get the Calldown-A-One-Time-Reactor to work properly >.< Overcharge is weaker than CB, but if a structure has a Reactor it becomes better. (But it also share energy with scan..) Ofc things might need to be fine tuned further. Note that the APM requirements are higher, and according to my calculations shall all mechanics be able to boost worker + army production by ca 50% for all races. (Unless I have misscalculated or underestimated some factor, for example that macro mechanics come too early.) | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/SC2_Starbow | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
Its too early to tell yet if they are imbalanced. When Dirtybag played as Protoss vs Zerg, he seemed far ahead in the early game. When he later played player as Zerg vs Protoss, he looked far ahead too.. :p @Nydus worm It got added a long time ago to fit with the BW balance concept thing for Zerg late game. 1-2 months or something? I think I wrote about it in the thread. It works as in SC2, except it must spawn on creep. @Corsairs For corsairs: the problem is that lift in combination with effective anti-light dps becomes too good at dealing with light/medium ground units if you have enough lifts. And the normal reactions would be hydra/marine/goliath to deal with them. Toss now gets rewarded for massing even more corsairs. This dynamic makes it a numbers game where the protoss always has the upper hand because he has the mobility and can choose when to fight. Therefor i think lift on corsair is fundamentally broken considering massed corsairs also rape most air-units. True. Graviton beam becomes exponential stronger the more Corsairs there are. If there are 10 Corsairs, each Graviton beam is 10 times stronger due to the damage output. The same would be true if we moved it to the Scout. I would prefer to have it in the game though, just because it gives more usage to Corsairs in all match-ups. It can now harass workers & disable key units. One potential way to solve it by doing this: - An enemy unit picked up by Graviton beam becomes invulnerable. (It can not be attacked.) Instead it receives 3 dmg per second as long as Graviton beam lasts. (15 seconds for example) This means that they can snipe workers and disable important units, but will not be as good vs Hydras, Dragoons and other ground anti-air units. Thus it is harder to get total control via mass Corsairs. It now requires 2 Graviton beams to kill a Hydra. If there are 10 Corsairs vs 10 Hydras, and all of them are picked up, none of them will die. If 5 are picked up at first, then picked up again by the 5 other Corsairs, the remaning Hydras will be able to shoot during this time. | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
On October 24 2013 07:58 Fishgle wrote: @graviton Beam: Can you make it castable on your own units as well? If it makes units immune to damage, it might be nice for saving HT or Reavers Yes that is possible to do. Both enemy and friendly units can become invulnerable when picked up. If it is an enemy unit, maybe 3 life per second is drained from it. (If we still want it possible for Corsiars to harass workers.) It is also possible to make the drain ignore shields. Which makes it better in PvP. (Build order diversity hooray!) The main point of this is to prevent Corsairs from being too insane when massed. (Since only 1 can deal damage at the same time towards an enemy unit.) | ||
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JohnnyZerg
Italy378 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Why not tweak the corsairs web instead? Web upgrade is at fleet bacon for 125 mana in bw Make it 75-100 mana here, with cheaper upgrade. This would cause the corsair to potentially see more play in all mus, especially with sentinel now availble at stargate Remove lift. Buff scout abit slightly. In cost. 275/125/3 in bw 200/125/3 in starbow, and remove that ability(you know i despise that ability on scout, you have seen my reasons before) Think this would let we see scout a bit more and not just only for his op spell (dont forget to make his upgrades resemble bw, right now he moves alot slower) And make his upgrades at fleetbacon faster BT and cheaper would cause an increased effect in seeing scouts. and remember, devcourers, scouts are still good against big armored air units (carriers, bcs) and so on. Scouts are really good at killing overlords. Also if carriers micro dont get fixed, you could also reduce cost of fleetbacon. Right now its more expensive to go arbiters here than in bw cuz fleetbacon is more expensive than arbiter tribunal | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Forge - 550/550 Pylon 300/300 no armor Zergs upgrades on evolution chamber should be 100% as toss and terran (forge, ebay), they are slightly faster now | ||
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