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On July 16 2012 05:38 MNdakota wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 04:25 Laertes wrote:
Gossen I heard the immortal is removed, I am totally against this change in every way, I know you don't like the immortal, but it is the only way toss can survive sieges, because it is so good versus siege units. Toss needs to a race that can break out of sieges, cause they are not as defensive as terran and not as efficient at production as zerg. I feel we should put the immortal back in and then make an intro panel similar to the one we used to have before it was way outdated. I am going to post a conclusive list of all the units in the next post I make, so hold up. Not only that but I would take the Immortal over the Colossus anyday. xD
Well don't they play completely different roles? Immortal is anti-armor while Colossus is anti-light [as light units tend to have less HP]. I'm sure you would rather have a Colossus instead of an Immortal when facing a bunch of marines, but you would rather have immortals when facing a bunch of tanks.
On July 17 2012 01:48 TaShadan wrote:
i played 2 more pvps with kasta something and the only option vs fe is to proxy hidden 3 gate zealot rush it
What type of FE are we talking about? PvP is almost exactly like BW, so just react to a FE like you normally would. Besides chronoboost, there isn't anything different about PvP early game. And chronoboost can be used offensively just as well as defensively.
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12 nex and after that gate
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On July 17 2012 03:09 frogmelter wrote:
Well don't they play completely different roles? Immortal is anti-armor while Colossus is anti-light [as light units tend to have less HP]. I'm sure you would rather have a Colossus instead of an Immortal when facing a bunch of marines, but you would rather have immortals when facing a bunch of tanks.
What's the point when I have a Reaver?
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On July 17 2012 03:45 MNdakota wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:09 frogmelter wrote:
Well don't they play completely different roles? Immortal is anti-armor while Colossus is anti-light [as light units tend to have less HP]. I'm sure you would rather have a Colossus instead of an Immortal when facing a bunch of marines, but you would rather have immortals when facing a bunch of tanks.
What's the point when I have a Reaver?
Same reason why we don't have mass reaver in BW. Colossus is a portable version of the reaver that can be massed.
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On July 17 2012 04:17 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:45 MNdakota wrote:On July 17 2012 03:09 frogmelter wrote:
Well don't they play completely different roles? Immortal is anti-armor while Colossus is anti-light [as light units tend to have less HP]. I'm sure you would rather have a Colossus instead of an Immortal when facing a bunch of marines, but you would rather have immortals when facing a bunch of tanks.
What's the point when I have a Reaver? Same reason why we don't have mass reaver in BW. Colossus is a portable version of the reaver that can be massed.
Any unit can be massed. Your ground army will be reduced by quite a bit if you're going to make a constant wave of siege units.
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On July 17 2012 04:40 MNdakota wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 04:17 frogmelter wrote:On July 17 2012 03:45 MNdakota wrote:On July 17 2012 03:09 frogmelter wrote:
Well don't they play completely different roles? Immortal is anti-armor while Colossus is anti-light [as light units tend to have less HP]. I'm sure you would rather have a Colossus instead of an Immortal when facing a bunch of marines, but you would rather have immortals when facing a bunch of tanks.
What's the point when I have a Reaver? Same reason why we don't have mass reaver in BW. Colossus is a portable version of the reaver that can be massed. Any unit can be massed. Your ground army will be reduced by quite a bit if you're going to make a constant wave of siege units.
There's a difference between "can" and does it make sense to. It makes no sense to go mass reavers. The only mass reaver strat there is = sair reaver, and it doesn't work vs Terran, which is where AOE damage is needed the most.
I don't feel like there's much to discuss about how mass reaver is not viable.
Anyways, reaver = harrassment unit
Colossus = backbone of the army, mass AOE dealer
They don't overlap
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On July 17 2012 13:05 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 04:40 MNdakota wrote:On July 17 2012 04:17 frogmelter wrote:On July 17 2012 03:45 MNdakota wrote:On July 17 2012 03:09 frogmelter wrote:
Well don't they play completely different roles? Immortal is anti-armor while Colossus is anti-light [as light units tend to have less HP]. I'm sure you would rather have a Colossus instead of an Immortal when facing a bunch of marines, but you would rather have immortals when facing a bunch of tanks.
What's the point when I have a Reaver? Same reason why we don't have mass reaver in BW. Colossus is a portable version of the reaver that can be massed. Any unit can be massed. Your ground army will be reduced by quite a bit if you're going to make a constant wave of siege units. There's a difference between "can" and does it make sense to. It makes no sense to go mass reavers. The only mass reaver strat there is = sair reaver, and it doesn't work vs Terran, which is where AOE damage is needed the most. I don't feel like there's much to discuss about how mass reaver is not viable. Anyways, reaver = harrassment unit Colossus = backbone of the army, mass AOE dealer They don't overlap
Okay dude. I ain't here to argue.
Disregarding that. How is Starbow looking overall? I feel like it's pretty solid right now and waiting to go all out!
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When will Dragoons be back and blink moved from stalkers to DTs? lol. Seriously though, that's all I want from Protoss. Blinking DTs and mah Goons.
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Blinking Dts is a no go balancewise. Imagine a (kinda) massed DT army blinking back when they are damaged. DT harass against Terran, where DTs blink out of every single scan (The detection unit is nearly highest tech for Terran). And a lot more forced spines would come from zergs to protect several bases.
I feel Starbow works quite nicely, right now (have not tested the additional casters) overall and its fun to play. I think we should concentrate on subtle changes to solve problems in the near future. For example: how to fix that Protoss cant pressure FE builds even when on one base.
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Idk, I don't think it would be as imbalanced as it might seem. I could easily argue that having stalkers blink would be way too op. Imagine a whole army of stalkers blinking out when they're damaged. Not to mention that now a HUGE part of the protoss army can blink. At least if you mass DT, in a straight battle they would get destroyed, but massing stalkers is actually viable. If you massed DTs for harrassment, then that's so many resources on harrass units that your army is going to be very weak. All an enemy would have to do is focus on defending and build their army up. Then push.
Just saying, theorycrafting just doesn't bring much. I'd like to see some trials with it. I would think DTs would still stay as just harrass units and would never be massed vs a good opponent.
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Hello, I have some suggestions to make after playing several games.
I have 3 art issues with the mod. First off when tanks shoot they don't show an explosion, unlike regular SC2 were we see a huge shell explosion above the center which makes it difficult for me to tell if my tanks are even firing or not, I just see the units dissapear...its kinda dumb
2nd for zerlings as you upgrade the lings they should display the wings added on. This is a vital piece of SC2's regular game were you differ between unupgraded and upgraded units, as lings gain wings an opponent can make decisions based on scouting, wereas currently you are left in the dark as to how an early push will go.
3rd the current stalker model, it looks plain retarded. No offense to the design decision to try and switch the model, but it currently looks like a toy. I think it should be returned to its original size or sized up atleast.
I also have a serries of balance issues to report, it feels fairly ridiculous that Zerg has movable burrowed lings and hydras, either this needs to be pushed into a really far hard to get tech or it needs to go. As a Terran player I find it often difficult to respond to a Zerg player, it just feels like there is so many random possibilitys and upgrades that can screw me.
The infestors new nydus ability is also fairly strong in its current form. It also seems to easily spammable, for what is pretty much a free unit spawner and they do a crapload of damage. Just something that should be looked into.
Now I have two things to be made about the current state of Terran. Currently it feels like Terrans tech options and ability to put on pressure it weak. This is due to the fact that not only does stim cost a lot, but vultures and wraiths are garbage. The vulture isn't a bad unit persay, but by the cost is so severe at 100 minerals that by the time I get them they become useless, not to mention I can't support to reactor them and get other units consistently which means that I have so few vultures I can't really do anything. What I sugges is dropping the price to 75 or something lower so that you can shove vultures out more effectively in the early stages. This would allow in TvP and TvZ for the terran to gain some map control after an initial round of lings, this way you could control the map. Then begin possibly setting mines or harrassing until they switch the control to their side with lurkers or hydras or other additions. This is just one example I used to highlight my issue.
I also think that wraiths need a damage increase, you can't really seem to do much with them, ive tried using them like BW TvT to pickoff tanks and harrass bases, but the rate at which they kill Drones, SCV's or anything is so abysmally small it makes them useless. It doesn't even help that I get cloak, becuase by the time I actually start to kill it they have something to defend. It also seems abysmally small at doing anything in TvZ from overlord cleanup, base harrass or anything. It needs a + vs light or something.
Also creep tumors should be on the hotkey T, and there is not a wraith hotkey currently in the maps I played.
Finally something has to be done about the pathfinding, I am sure it changed was to give the game a more BWesque gameplay, but it's incredibly frustrating to deal with. I find half the time my units run to the wrong side or area, and attempting to use shift commands with a group of units is awful. Half the time after having 2 shifted move locations they end up across the map. It also tends to make microing forces incredibly frustrating.
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is the NA version different? i cant remember movable burrowed ling and hydras Oo
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On July 19 2012 15:56 TaShadan wrote:
is the NA version different? i cant remember movable burrowed ling and hydras Oo
Apparently. Also, Swarm Guardians do not have Consume on them like they used to.
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hm there should be some communication between the hosters and maybe add an version number to the description so everybody can see and tell which version they mean
its useless to argue and discusse about different versions
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On July 19 2012 17:13 TaShadan wrote:
hm there should be some communication between the hosters and maybe add an version number to the description so everybody can see and tell which version they mean
its useless to argue and discusse about different versions
I agree.
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Hello.
I´ve had a busy week and I have a even busier one coming up. I will not be online for some days. The version that is currently uploaded on EU and NA consists of so many bugs and weird stuff. (Its a compete mess if you look at the mod in the editor.)
So I have on my spare time created the MOD from scratch as a seperate file. The new file has eveything fixed, all errors and bugs, all spells and units have been rebuilt in a better way. Completely new spells has been added to casters that lacked them. All units have been decided upon and the races will be as complete as they can be. The balance from the current mod has been transfered to the new one, with some small changes.
This will be the "final release" I´ve talked about in the opening post. However the process of balance will continue while we play it. So during next week I will update the opening post with pictures of the races and upload the complete Starbow on both EU and NA to replace the old file.
The only thing I need now is a couple of more maps to play on, so we get a good map pool of 3-4 maps. If anyone of you have time, please look for good community made maps that would fit Starbow. Ask the authors if we can use it with Starbow and PM me if you find any good ones. Or if you wanna make one yourself 
Thanks for all your support!
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On July 20 2012 09:06 Kabel wrote:
Completely new spells has been added to casters that lacked them.
Could you go into detail on that?
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EPT
