EPTIf yes: vs Carriers (they just totally raped interceptors so hard) and sometimes Mutas.
If no: vs... probably nothing, only if I really had to have some form of additional AA and couldn't build enough Goliaths/Marines.
[A] Starbow - Page 256
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
If yes: vs Carriers (they just totally raped interceptors so hard) and sometimes Mutas. If no: vs... probably nothing, only if I really had to have some form of additional AA and couldn't build enough Goliaths/Marines. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
I am kinda against my own idea, but it might work. It will not happen in this patch but maybe a reworked version of it later. The problem is that terran can already do a lot of those things with just dropships... and it pulls the ghost away from his base to nuke and into the battlefield instead.... but it might also work... Keep thinking (and playing...)! Next patch should be done before the end of this week. Not promising anything though..... | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
 .Time to begin uploading maps! Hurrah!!! | ||
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The_Overmind
United States20 Posts
On April 26 2013 05:36 Xiphias wrote: This would be a very different unit and not a capital ship. so if we went for this solution it would have to be in addition to the carrier (which is fine). Yeah, I think the carrier is a better capital ship and can be tweeked (Range, interceptor life,speed, etc) to make it a little less OP in mass. The roll the new tempest would play is air combat support (Has a direct roll in combat and interfears with the combat of other units) which I think is a slightly different roll from the arbitor though I can see how it could still overlap. I am currently trying to map out every single unit (yes, you heard me) and make sure they all have their well-defined role. This is also to make sure each race has what it needs in terms of basic army units, harass options, spell casters to deal with various situations etc... A couple of units that stand out already is the Ghost and the Viking. I know vikings are suppose to deal with anti-air AOE (good vs crossairs and mutas), but irradiate already takes care of that. It is hard to fins a role for the viking that does not overlap with goliath / irradiate. You terran players out there: In what scenario would you make vikings? They only use for them that I can see is vs a zerg player who is MASSING mutalisks, but even then, they are not that good.... I would support that. If terran has trouble with mass light air perhaps a late game upgrade to goliaths is more in order. And Ghosts.... I agree that both Snipe and lockdown are not great spells in terms of micro and gameplay. I agree with HideR that a spell should do more dmg, the less your oppodent micro, and these spells are not great in that regard. Irradiate is a great example of that. It will always do something, but a good player can minimize the dmg quite well. Nerve jammer is also the same way. It can kill lurkers, or force unburrow, dependent on the opponents reaction. I have some quite weird ideas for the Ghost that I will share later that could fill some role, and also intensify harassment in mid-game. Snipe is a bad irradiate and lockdown is a bad nerve-jammer (in some uses of the spell), so there is too much overlapping there. Agreed but no great suggestions. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
Replace it with a Sniper Mode that is toggled like Siege Mode. While active, the Ghost has greatly reduced movement speed and attack rate, but gains a much longer range and bonus damage vs Bio, plus the ability for their shots to punch through ground targets and hit others behind them in line AoE. They will fire on their own if you don't micro them, but you'll get the most effect out of 1) good positioning and 2) target firing the right units so you aren't wasting damage on non-Bio or already wounded targets or stray Zerglings etc. @Lockdown It CAN be micro'd against. You can pick up the affected units in Warp Prisms/Dropships and move them to safety, or Recall them, or use another defensive/crowd control ability to force attackers away from them temporarily. It's not the most interactive spell in the game, but it isn't completely bad either. @Terran Air I agree with Hider, we should bring back the Wraith instead of the Banshee. In terms of Vikings, I think we should make their attack AoE standard instead of a research, and replace that research with a range upgrade instead (lower starting range). | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
We are also hoping to bring in Atlas and Abaddon Blaze. Stand by to play on those. If you wouldn't mind getting rid of the non-relevant unit tester Johnny Zerg and updating the main unit tester ^^. Lemme know if you guys find any bugs and I'll add it to the bug list. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Change log: + Show Spoiler + Ghost now has lockdown, costs 125 energy, 30 second duriation and 9 range. Nerve Jammer is now targetable, but benign. It costs 100 energy now. Viper is now 100/175. Dark swarm now lasts 30 seconds up from 20. Zerglings now have tunnelling claws, lair tech. Stasis and Graviton Catapult research added to the Fleet Beacon Zerg now has a viper nest with consume research. Hive Tech. Added an attack to the Arbiter Fixed color on fungal. Upgrades now properly affect the reaver, corsair, and scout. Drone Command Card fixed Goliath Explosion Size Lurker attack sound is too low Spider mine can now be defused by pulling back and then attacked. I plan on giving it larger chase range next patch. Vulture micro added. Vulture added to the BW pathing exception list. Tank turret now track (does not have fire on the move). Add Stalker missile actor. Fix warpgate units + 10 secondes. Nerve jammer to be 100 energy Cooldown on G4-charges (reapers) is 30 sec 1 queen per hatch. Fix medic stimpack icon position (commands tab) as stimpack marine. - Sure Reaper mine charge duriation changed to 5 from 3.5 Medic has a higher priority than marine Medic stimpack position fixed Science vessel acceleration changed from 1.75 to 1.5. Guardian move speed max from 2 to 1.7 Overseer speed modified to 1.2 from .8 Lair grants overseer speed of 2.25 I’ll need to make a workaround for keeping speed even after all lairs/hives are killed. For now this is how it works. Carrier Added Tempest cost changed to 200/150 Movement speed changed to 2 up from 1.8 Life Changed to 100 Life Armor changed to 1 from 2 Ranged decreased to 10 from 12 Damage changed from 40 to 25 Tempest damage upgrades are still insanely good. Rift effects 3 units down from 4 Stasis model is now the old school SB version | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
You forgot to make regular Burrow research Hatch tech. If you intentionally left it at Lair I can't really fathom why. Nerve Jammer is too easily eclipsed by other ground units from that demonstration video. Should probably make it float. Everything else seems pretty cool. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On April 26 2013 12:25 SmileZerg wrote: First thoughts on issues with the new patch: You forgot to make regular Burrow research Hatch tech. If you intentionally left it at Lair I can't really fathom why. Nerve Jammer is too easily eclipsed by other ground units from that demonstration video. Should probably make it float. Everything else seems pretty cool. Correct on both accounts You'll also notice the tunneling claws tooltip being stubborn. Localization is a nightmare. | ||
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
I'm glad to see all the fixes but in not sure about some balance changes. I really liked fast guardians. Burrow / burrow move Im not sure how long bt is but would be cool to make it very short time. After all its 100/100 investment. Also, burrow move is lair + only for lings? Well, I do think that making it hive + all units with decent speed would add whole new dimension to zerg play. I don't like medic stim. I would prefer to see them with priority like in bw so they are not attacked until everything is dead. But anyway either priority or stim. It will only hurt seeing them heal eachother instead marines. Ghost From what I remember you can't pickup locked units.Lockdohiwn cost is quite high. Ultras. Do they have burrow charge? I kinda liked just charge. Reaper mines 5sec is quite a lot. Do they still deal this weird dmg different vs everything? | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Nice job Dec btw... he's done a lot or work! | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On April 26 2013 14:47 Danko__ wrote: We have already tried wraiths. They do not work. Blink, warp in, queens. You either had to mass them or not build them. But they were such a fun and watchable unit. I feel like they could still have potential, with the proper tweaks. If Vultures work, why don't Wraiths? I'm glad to see all the fixes but in not sure about some balance changes. I really liked fast guardians. I can't stand Guardians, especially the speedy ones. I want my Broodlords back. Burrow / burrow move Im not sure how long bt is but would be cool to make it very short time. After all its 100/100 investment. Also, burrow move is lair + only for lings? Well, I do think that making it hive + all units with decent speed would add whole new dimension to zerg play. Burrow move makes a lot more sense at Lair. That's when all the threats that are unlocked are either from underground or from the air. Infestors, Lurkers, Spire Tech, Overlord Drops, etc. I don't like medic stim. I would prefer to see them with priority like in bw so they are not attacked until everything is dead. But anyway either priority or stim. It will only hurt seeing them heal eachother instead marines. Agreed. Medics with Stim doesn't even make sense, it's an aggression-enhancing combat drug. You wouldn't want a surgeon operating on you while under the effects of PCP would you? Ghost From what I remember you can't pickup locked units.Lockdohiwn cost is quite high. I think you should be able to, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. | ||
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
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Weerwolf
75 Posts
Medic has a higher priority than marine This just disabled the need to micro on the medic.. it only requires medics to be not in the battle during the battle. If you do not have medics as a higher attack priority, you need to micro units on them yourself, while the medic user can retreat medics as counter micro. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
I didn't really understand how you micro vultures? If its not patrol-micro and kite-micro, then how do you do it? I don't like medic stim. I would prefer to see them with priority like in bw so they are not attacked until everything is dead. But anyway either priority or stim. It will only hurt seeing them heal eachother instead marines. Stim improves bio mobility unlike priority change. It CAN be micro'd against. You can pick up the affected units in Warp Prisms/Dropships and move them to safety, or Recall them, or use another defensive/crowd control ability to force attackers away from them temporarily. It's not the most interactive spell in the game, but it isn't completely bad either. Good points, but in general I don't like abilities which take units/abilities away from a battle. I prefer abilities which add an extra element to the game (more micro options = better). We have already tried wraiths. They do not work. Blink, warp in, queens. You either had to mass them or not build them. I define wraiths as a weaker but faster version of banshees (with anti air). I don't think that it will be impossible to get them to work. I mean banshees are also pretty bad vs blink stalkers and warp ins. They probably need a slight buff from their BW-counterparts, and if done correctly then it could be viable to have 3-5 wraths harassing all over the map. To avoid the "too good when massed"-problem , we can increase the supply of the wraith. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
Starbow Tournament # 2 Now that the new patch is out without any bugs (I hope....) It's time to have another tournament. See more info here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409742 and here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/User:Xiphias/Starbow_2 | ||
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Danko__
Poland429 Posts
Banshee is superior in every way. If you really want to change something then just make banshee faster and more fragile or give it small aoe dmg. Muta wars in zvz: Are they really an issue? Are aoe scourges necessary?With queens (+transfuze on spores) z already has early game option to defend. Hydras are stronger vs them than in bw. Investors with Fungal are even more viable choice than bw queens. I'm gonna try to find some time this weekend for starbow and would be cool to check this. | ||
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