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On October 31 2012 02:26 Traceback wrote:
We all just need to keep developing the meta game. That the only real way to find out if stuff is broken or not. So easy to fall into the trap of thinking things are broken before metagame can show you they aren't.
Yes, especially we need better players. People that are at like top 25 masters, regularly playing Starbow. They will figure out meta faster, figure out how to exploit fragile builds (like your build, they could possibly remember to never miss so and so).
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Oh boy this mod is so good. So far it feels to me that starbow so much funnier than original sc2!
If you haven't played it yet, do it! It definitely worth it!
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On October 31 2012 03:13 Freeze967 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 02:26 Traceback wrote:
We all just need to keep developing the meta game. That the only real way to find out if stuff is broken or not. So easy to fall into the trap of thinking things are broken before metagame can show you they aren't. Yes, especially we need better players. People that are at like top 25 masters, regularly playing Starbow. They will figure out meta faster, figure out how to exploit fragile builds (like your build, they could possibly remember to never miss so and so).
I never laddered enough to know where I was but I'm going to keep practicing with the goal of being top tier. Granted I think there will be some balance problems, but I think we defiantly need to flush out and refine our strategies more before pursuing every balance problem.
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I think you should keep sheild but perhaps lower medic heal rate. That really doesn't weaken bio versus uber splash, but it lets non-splash units (esp zerg) fight more effectively. Shield might have be reduced in percentage, but perhaps not.
Keep in mind all units have had their dps reduced going into starbow, and then lings had a shuffle of stats as well.
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On October 31 2012 11:29 Chronopolis wrote:
I think you should keep sheild but perhaps lower medic heal rate. That really doesn't weaken bio versus uber splash, but it lets non-splash units (esp zerg) fight more effectively. Shield might have be reduced in percentage, but perhaps not.
Keep in mind all units have had their dps reduced going into starbow, and then lings had a shuffle of stats as well.
+1 to reducing medic heal rate for the same reasons.
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All units had their dps reduced?
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On October 31 2012 18:41 Kabel wrote:
No
Psst, wanna know a secret?
It'd be cool if they did!
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I didnt ask you Kabel ^^.
Johny, no. That wouldnt be cool.
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On October 31 2012 20:32 Danko__ wrote:
I didnt ask you Kabel ^^.
Johny, no. That wouldnt be cool.
Putting more thoughts into this, lowering DPS might be one of the worse options, but something to prolong combats would be cool.
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Sorry guys, been pretty occupied lately, I'll see if I have time yet again for vods.
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It's only the two of us streaming semi-regularly at the moment and we're both occupied enough by all the different things that we can only do it in the evenings. Gotta be patient.
Last night I lied in bed to take a short nap around 7PM, woke up at 5AM, gg.
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On October 31 2012 20:51 JohnMadden wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2012 20:32 Danko__ wrote:
I didnt ask you Kabel ^^.
Johny, no. That wouldnt be cool. Putting more thoughts into this, lowering DPS might be one of the worse options, but something to prolong combats would be cool.
I've been a big advocate for doubling or tripling HP of all units. It allows you to poke and retreat. It also means you don't get discouraged when the maxed army you spent 15 minutes building up evaporates in 8 seconds in a ball vs. ball engagement. It also allows more time for microing individual units if battles last longer. Of course it would necessitate reworking AOE. And probably the maps would shrink (at least the # of expansions) so the games don't go on for years.
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Just wanted to say I love what you are doing. This is what SC2 should have been.
Is this thread the only place for info, or is there a wiki or something?
Edit: To make bio more viable in TvT, perhaps make spider mines not target it?
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@ O.P
Glad you enjoy it! This is so far the only thread for it (as I know of.) Later on, when this get more complete, I will try to spread it to other sites too.
@ Make units live longer
Generally I am a fan of units living a little longer. But I will not do any increase of HP or nerf of DPS across the board at this point. MAYBE I will do a careful and slight change in the future, once the balance is a bit better and the races completed.
@New pictures in the opening post
They are sooo outdated. I consider to even remove them now. I will replace them when I have completed the races. There are mainly some stuff left for Zerg that needs to be decided upon before I can adjust the pictures. I do all my glorious artwork in Paint. Maybe someone else can make a better presentation? O_o
I am working in the editor now with fixing some bugs. For some reason, the Lockdown model refuses to show up on the Reaver >.<
Anyone here wanna open the MOD via b.net editor and have a look?
Maybe you see something I completely miss...... . . .. .
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jdsowa, i think we should even multiply units HP 10 times so players also have time tomake tea or coffee for themselves.
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On November 01 2012 00:19 Danko__ wrote:
jdsowa, i think we should even multiply units HP 10 times so players also have time tomake tea or coffee for themselves.
Hahaha, basically this.
The reasoning behind an HP increase across the board is somewhat sound but some of you are going way overboard on the numbers. A 30% increase at most would accomplish what we're looking for. Even still, I'm not sure it's necessary.
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The battles already last much longer than in SC2. They are not as long as BW, but that is because BW runs at a slower speed. There is plenty of time to micro and whatnot but not too slow to allow perfect mechanics by all but the very best. The mechanics of SC2 are much easier than BW, so game speed is one thing that can compensate for it. Lowering the DPS and/or increasing the HP of every unit is not the way to go. Flanking/harassing/positioning wins over this "ball" you mention. The only reason you may see this "ball" in Starbow is because people still play this game like how they play SC2, which is definitely far from optimal. Even then, it's hardly the ball that it is in SC2.
Basically, while I am okay with some small tweaks here and there, overall making battles last longer via HP buffs or DPS nerfs is not a good idea. For skill, there needs to be a balance between reflex skill and micro skill.
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EPT
