EPTOn October 27 2012 15:45 SmileZerg wrote:
My argument isn't just that Inject is bad cost-investment wise, but that it is fundamentally redundant, regardless of costs. It doesn't accomplish anything you can't also do with macro Hatches. Chrono Boost is never redundant. Yes you can use it on production facilities early to avoid having to make additional ones, however, it can also speed along research and provide an aid in defense with Cannons. But most importantly, it can not be used before investing in producing the units you actually want.
For example, as Protoss, you decide to make X Zealots and Y Stalkers out of your N Gateways. Chrono can be used to speed along the return on this investment, after the fact. It cannot be used to increase value N before you start a production cycle.
As Zerg, with Inject, you are not speeding along or increasing a return on any investment. You are just adding more possible slots with which to invest in at a future point. But why have that be a possibility, if making more production facilities (in this case hatcheries), already does that? Why have the redundancy of two game mechanics with no substantial differentiation do the same thing? The cost-effectiveness is not the issue. We can change the values, but we will still end up with either:
A) Macro hatches are better, so Queens are largely unnecessary, or B) Queens using Inject are better, so macro hatches are largely unnecessary.
Mathematically the whole thing is just a mess, and in my opinion we are far better off scrapping it and starting anew. I think we can find better ways to make Zerg macro work, and we don't need to cling to an old mechanic just because it was already established in SC2.
I do agree that, until we come up with a replacement, we need to leave Inject purely as the APM dump. But we should all be working towards brainstorming said replacement.
My argument isn't just that Inject is bad cost-investment wise, but that it is fundamentally redundant, regardless of costs. It doesn't accomplish anything you can't also do with macro Hatches. Chrono Boost is never redundant. Yes you can use it on production facilities early to avoid having to make additional ones, however, it can also speed along research and provide an aid in defense with Cannons. But most importantly, it can not be used before investing in producing the units you actually want.
For example, as Protoss, you decide to make X Zealots and Y Stalkers out of your N Gateways. Chrono can be used to speed along the return on this investment, after the fact. It cannot be used to increase value N before you start a production cycle.
As Zerg, with Inject, you are not speeding along or increasing a return on any investment. You are just adding more possible slots with which to invest in at a future point. But why have that be a possibility, if making more production facilities (in this case hatcheries), already does that? Why have the redundancy of two game mechanics with no substantial differentiation do the same thing? The cost-effectiveness is not the issue. We can change the values, but we will still end up with either:
A) Macro hatches are better, so Queens are largely unnecessary, or B) Queens using Inject are better, so macro hatches are largely unnecessary.
Mathematically the whole thing is just a mess, and in my opinion we are far better off scrapping it and starting anew. I think we can find better ways to make Zerg macro work, and we don't need to cling to an old mechanic just because it was already established in SC2.
I do agree that, until we come up with a replacement, we need to leave Inject purely as the APM dump. But we should all be working towards brainstorming said replacement.
And mule is fundamentally redundant compared to macro CC's. How is chrono never redundant if by definition it also gives the same returns as building a macro Nexus or another production facility? That is the same exact thing as inject, with he difference being it can also further along upgrades and speed up cannon defense. The queen also has diverse set of abilities because it has more spells than simply chrono, it can also aid in defense with transfuse and with the new spell aid in building time.
Why is it so important that chrono can't be used before investing in the production que, and how does that translate to inject being bad that way? There is no real argument for that.
Hatches will raise the cap of larva, and queens are used to reach that cap, its not cut and dry both are used for max larva production.
If queens are more powerful than macro hatches, macro hatches are still required because you can't inject twice on the same hatcheries. To get to your full potential production over time, you need more hatches for more inject targets.
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