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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SKNmq.png)
"Yay for new thread image!"
version 1.5 EU
My map entry for the first TL map contest :-)
Sump is a new 4 player map of mine, which originally, wasn't supposed to be finished. But after watching Blizzcon (specificly Sc2 art panel), a instense feeling struck me to try recreate the swamp/jungle theme they showed.
Map details:
Sump is a 160x159 playable map.
Close by ground starting positions are disabled. (12 vs 3, 9 vs 6)
Map contain 14 expansions, two of which are semi-islands. (Mains incl.)
Two Xel'naga Watchtowers.
Lots and lots of shubbery...
Update log:
~1.5 Shubbery has become immune to fire attacks thus no longer disappears from the field. Negative effect from this is the map tag has become 'custom' from 'melee'.  ~1.4 Ramps leading up to players main has been moved abit Minor aesthetics changes. Disabled the shorelines from the water, making it look more swampy. ~1.3 Gold expansions has lost its colour and is now Blue. Change has also moved them abit Fixed sneaky Stalker blink entrance to Naturals when working together with Xel'naga watchtowers. Minor aesthetics tweaks. Also, XWT are now 5% cooler. ~1.2 Close by ground postions has been disabled Middle has been cut open, giving new ways to attack the oppenent(s) Ramps has been removed/added leading up to gold expansions, making the walk distance between close-air postions abit longer. Potently also giving new strategi oppotunities for players. The change has also rotated the gold expansions 180 degress. Various aesthetics changes as been made. One change being the cut of foliage items by roughly 50% (Yay performace!) ~1.1 Forgot something, go to update 1.2! ^ ~1.0 Map release
Screenshots
+ Show Spoiler +
Analyzer data
Clickie for Album
Have fun ~
+ Show Spoiler +Painting all this grass between all these stone tiles was... p.i.a. D:
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I really like the Jungle/Swamp theme, you pulled it off quite well! I'm concerned about close spawn positions, particularly with how close the naturals are to one another. They even have a backdoor too, I think that those spawns should be disabled.
The map itself is huge. There's a lot of space in the gold expansions, the backdoor expansions, and even in the natural expansions where that space isn't needed. You need to work on your proportions a bit better.
Overall, this map must favor Zerg or Protoss because of its large size. Players can get a lot of easy expansions as well. The map is also very open and there are not a lot of chokes. The backdoor is huge, the ramps into the golds are huge, the gold itself is huge, there's really no place I'd like to engage an enemy army as Terran, and even Protoss to an extent.
This map needs some work.
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I really like the layout depending on spawns. The backdoor to the natural is a really cool feature. Contrary to the post above me, the map seems more Terran favored since PFs can be made at key positions in the late game and the 3rd and natural are defended by one choke. The openess may become an issue but for the most part it seems fine. Perhaps tighten some of the chokes a few hexes?
I really hope this map gets selected, really really nice layout.
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It is your best map, definitely. Its a good rendition of metalopolis style layout. But the rush distance between close spawn is far too short, you absolutely must force cross spawn.
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Lovely aesthetics. This is how the tileset should be used. Is the textures pure Auir? I know the pain of painting grass in between tiles, so feeling with you there 
As a176 (can you have a more anonymous name? It's like R2D2 but harder to pronounce  ) points out - the long rush distance is too small and forces cross spawns only, which is a bad thing. You need to remake the middle to make it work. Just cut the ramp along the shortest path, turn the mineral line 180 degrees and att a ramp in the oposite direction of the one with rocks.
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Excellent job with the theme. The atmosphere is perfectly rendered. It's like Kurast Docks 2011.
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I can't really comment on balance but aesthetically the best map i've seen so far in SC2!
Edit: Is it up on EU?
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Very nice, your best work so far. I hate to do it but I'll start with the negatives.
Close by land spawns. I did not see it mentioned if they were disabled or not but it is pretty much unplayable. The naturals are sooo close to each other with a backdoor as well.
Close by air. This looks a lot better but I find that the watchtowers have very limited use in the early game. It fully covers one attackpath that you are never going to get attacked from and only barely covers the last bit of the path through the golds. The last path is uncovered at all. It doesnt break the map though.
Cross positions. Looks awesome. Really really great games can by played cross spawn.
Overall, while I am not a huge fan of the layout, you are doing a really great job polishing it. Chokes and base sizes are so well done and a very nice variety in terrain. With a slightly better layout to begin with the polish you bring you your map the result would be outstanding.
The aesthetics are beautifull. I am absolutely blown away by it. Everything from the textures and the work with the doodads to the theme you picked is so well executed. A perfect example of how execution is worth so much more then overdoing it.
Your previous maps have been okay, you have been showing progress but this one is a huge step forward. Keep it up!
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The terrans will say its to wide open, the zerg will say it has no open battlefield to offer. So I think the sizes should be quite good overall. As with many diagonally mirrored maps disabling close spawns could solve a few strategic problems. Other than that I really dig the map. Both visually and strategically.
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I kind of agree that the layout could have used some polish, its a shame because the aesthetics are stunning.
Making a diagonal reflective symmetry map that doesn't look like shattered or metalopolis is tricky!
The close positions just don't work at all, and I really think the only way to make the map work as a whole without gutting huge parts of it would be to deactivate close spawns.
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First of all, thank all you guys for the feedback you've been giving me for my map!
Secondly, sorry for answering back this kinda late, but I've been busy with other stuff which has been taken my time. (Tf2 halloween wuuut! :D Starcraft needs halloween themed maps, just sayin')
@Meltage
Yes the tileset is pure Auir, no custom texture customization added to it.
@Apom
Kurast Docks you say? Never thought of that, but now that you say it. Good memories.
@NunedQ
Yes, the map is released, and only so far, on EU under the name Sump (v1.0)
Now onto issues regarding distances.
I've been cooking up some possible solutions to this problem, and I would like you hear you peoples opinion on my tries.
Solution A
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3b8YO.png)
Changes: Middle has been cut open, allowing a new route to attack from, which also increases the benefit from controlling the watchtower covering that route. (Close-air positions)
Two of the ramps leading up to the gold has been removed while one new ramp has been opened. This change also increases the walk distance when have close-air positions
Ramps leading up to each players base has been shrunked abit while also the main ramp has been moved a tiny bit.
The close-ground postion walk distance has also been increased abit. This one, as I hope can be? A solution to making those two spawn location viable for normal game, instead of forcing cross/close-air positions.
Personally I'm not entirely happy with my solution A due to how I need to cut away more playable land near the middle, but you gotta do some stuff to make things work.
Solution B
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VWxw7.png)
Changes: Middle has been cut open, same reason why I did it on solution A.
Close-ground starting positions are gone.
Ramps leading to gold are still there, as after more thinking, I couldn't really see the reason why the distance was so bad. (close-air positions). But also I had the last minute thought, of couse after I had finished it, to give the same gold layout to it as I did on solution A.
I also tryed playing around with the idea to place some small chokes in the open areas, but I couldn't get a good solution to it, so that was skipped.
What is your thoughts? And do please make some visuals aswell. I love those.
Now i be off for a while to try install this new badboy of a GTX560 
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Map has now been updated to 1.2! Update log, new screenshots and analyzer pictures can be found in the main post.
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I just spent 10 minutes looking at your overview picture. God your work is pretty. ^______^
The update is good, I don't find any glaring issues. One technical concern: can you hit anything at the natural with siege tanks behind the rocks?
Besides that the only thing that sticks out is that in close air spawns, you can get 3 bases with functionally one chokepoint quite easily, and the attack distance to the far rocks entrance to the low 3rd is so long (also watched by the tower) so as to make 3 base turtle relatively easy. However, I don't think it's really a problem because it's easy enough to take a 4th and 5th in response, and they are well watched by the tower, and they are nice to defend but not too nice.
Such a pleasure to look at, hopefully I can play it sometime (I'm NA).
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Your map will have issues with PF golds. I would suggest making the gold bases blue.
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I know this is not the first time I have seen it, but I like the idea of having the destructible rocks head right to the rear of the mineral patches.
Yeah, I agree with Plexa that there could be some issues with PF at the gold, but with that destructible path directly behind I think that might make it easy to sneak in and at least take out a ton of workers.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 03 2011 19:00 TheAmazombie wrote:
I know this is not the first time I have seen it, but I like the idea of having the destructible rocks head right to the rear of the mineral patches.
Yeah, I agree with Plexa that there could be some issues with PF at the gold, but with that destructible path directly behind I think that might make it easy to sneak in and at least take out a ton of workers.
Not at midmasters or higher, terran pulls scvs and then traps army with his own forcing an engagement or to run past pf. That is, assuming his army isn't there already (no reason not to be really)
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backdoor rocks on nats leading to other backdoor rocks on nats is going to have the issues that shakuras plateu had with terrans.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
On November 03 2011 20:22 SpoR wrote:
backdoor rocks on nats leading to other backdoor rocks on nats is going to have the issues that shakuras plateu had with terrans.
He didn't post any analyzer images for close spawns so I think that spawn orientation is disabled... not sure though. If it's not, it should be for the reasons mentioned.
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Love the aesthetics. I'd love them even more if it was less dark, kind of like the values on your overhead shot.
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United States10150 Posts
make it non backdoor close spawns. We don't want to have the same problem that shakuras did.
overall good map though.
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On November 04 2011 02:11 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 20:22 SpoR wrote:
backdoor rocks on nats leading to other backdoor rocks on nats is going to have the issues that shakuras plateu had with terrans. He didn't post any analyzer images for close spawns so I think that spawn orientation is disabled... not sure though. If it's not, it should be for the reasons mentioned.
I'm not sure but I think you can make the spawns everything but the horizontal positions, that would work. Although I hate that maps do this these days, its confusing and can just be avoided all together imho.
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I really like this map. I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet TT upload to NA!!! :D
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Map has now jumped version 1.3! Update log & few updated screenshots along, are in the main post.
As I understood the main concern on Shakuras backdoor was that terrans greatly used it for their turtling into oppenents Main due to how narrow the chokepoint was. For my map I have the backdoor at the Natural and while not only that, the ramp is much more wider, preventing terrans gaining a Easily narrow choke point.
If it's completly something else I'm missing out on, please fill me in. But for now I don't see any reason to remove said backdoor. Hell, it kinda reminds me of The Shattered Temple layout. Just my way.
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I like this alot. Nice job
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Change center bases to gold, and you've got yourself a Concrete Jungle (Metalopolis with jungle texture :|)
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This... is a decoration masterpiece.
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Map has now reached version 1.4! Update log & new stuff found in main post. Hopefully this should also be the last update? :o
@EathThePath
One technical concern: can you hit anything at the natural with siege tanks behind the rocks?
Sorry for missing out on this question!
When tanks placed closely as possible to the cliff side, they're in reach of roughly 50% of the natural. (Demostration)
This goes for the other sides aswell.
Thank you all for the nice comments!
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Another day another version. The only change in 1.5 is that shubbery, which shows the playable area, has become immune to fire attacks and thus no longer disappear from the field. The negative part from this is that the map tag has become 'Custom' instead of 'Melee'
Neutral units > Few data changes to doodads
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why do that? immortal plants?
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Basicly, It's because I use the plants to wall off the playable areas instead of using Cliffs, It dosn't help that a wandering Helion or whatever comes in and removes said wall, confusing the players over where they can go and not.
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