EPT[M] (4) TPW Concrete Dreams - Page 2
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hobbidude
Canada171 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On September 15 2011 14:26 IronManSC wrote: I believe around 4 or 5 TPW members (out of 9) worked on the aesthetics together for this map - excluding me since I took a break  As stated in the OP (under Author), in addition to myself; Johanaz, Meltage, Mereel and Lefix worked on the aesthetics of the map. This map couldn't have become as awesome as it is without them On September 15 2011 20:18 hobbidude wrote: PM me, I'd be willing to post this or any other tpw maps on NA I believe IronManSC is already hosting this one on US, not sure though, I have to ask him. (or is there someone who could check if it is uploaded there?) | ||
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Mieszko
Sweden25 Posts
Not sure if it's been noted before but the mineral placement of the 7 and 1 o'clock natural are a bit off compared to their counterparts. + Show Spoiler + The 4 and 10 o'clock nats have more efficient mining right now since the CC is off by a hex at the 7 and 1 o'clock nats 1x2 minerals.......  ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cQ3ic.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yPfC4.jpg) | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On September 16 2011 17:51 Mieszko wrote: Not sure if it's been noted before but the mineral placement of the 7 and 1 o'clock natural are a bit off compared to their counterparts. + Show Spoiler + The 4 and 10 o'clock nats have more efficient mining right now since the CC is off by a hex at the 7 and 1 o'clock nats 1x2 minerals....... The mineral placement is a known issue, I was a bit quick when rotating and redistributing the minerals there, working at that and a few other issues. Other known issues:
Working on a fix for all of these. Great thanks for testing, keep it up and the map will be in great shape for NASL! | ||
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SaltyDog
Uganda73 Posts
clicks all image spoilers and undoes belt | ||
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Ferisii
Denmark199 Posts
[*] Thors and Tanks cannot reach the center watchtower because they are too wide for the tiny choke (strangely Ultras, Collosi, Queens, Infestors, Immortals and so on can pass without problems). This will probably necessitate a change in how the chokes around the watchtower looks :/ Working on a fix for all of these. You could do that or... Custom cliff time! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qryaW.png) The only change is the look and walking area, but everything else is pretty much the same. (Same build areas, creep area etc.) If it's something you can use or anyone else for that matter, I've uploaded the map file to here: [url blocked] Much easier than me explaning it how-to.  | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On September 17 2011 05:20 Ferisii wrote: You could do that or... Custom cliff time! + Show Spoiler + The only change is the look and walking area, but everything else is pretty much the same. (Same build areas, creep area etc.) If it's something you can use or anyone else for that matter, I've uploaded the map file to here: [url blocked] Much easier than me explaning it how-to. That looks awesome! Ingenious usage of the meinhoff crater and hiding of terrain cells! Sadly, I have thought about tanks siegeing up around the tower, filling that space inside the chokes. Even if you can't fit that many tanks into it, it will still be hard to break, a bit too hard I think (If you look at it from the perspective of a Z, think zergling muta vs a lot of tanks in the middle, protected by thors and hellions, and you'll see what I mean — zerglings won't be able to reach the tanks properly) New Center Here is an image of how the center will look: (probably, if you have any objections I might change it) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VPmfm.jpg) This will still provide some cover for the tanks, but the forward tanks will be easier to hit and surround. (And yes, tanks and thors can move through the small choke created by XWT and cliff hole, I have not removed one problem just to create another )Forge FE Image And I forgot to create one image which might be of importance to some, how a forge FE wall-in would look like: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iH3JT.jpg) Main-size too small? Finally, monitor expressed some concerns with the main-size in the MotM #9 thread, so I created an example terran main to illustrate the size of the main and natural: + Show Spoiler [Example Terran main] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sffVz.jpg) Variant with building pathing switched on As you can see, I have avoided to place buildings at the top of the main as in TvT you might be shelled by tanks sieged up next to the fourth there. From what I and the other TPW members can see, it looks fine. But if testing proves us wrong, we'll change it and extend it towards the corners a bit. Status of 1.2 I am still working on version 1.2, and if no other issues come up I will probably have it ready today (CET). The last issue I have to fix is the possibility of hiding smaller units behind cliff drops from 3 to 1 (the highground pods next to the nat). | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
I think the main doesn't need to be as big as normal since when you acquire the nat/third and need to add production buildings you also get more space in the nat/third which are close to your main (hope you understand what I mean^^). The picture shows quite well how much extra space there is in the nat. | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
This version has a lot of smaller changes, but most of them affect gameplay slightly. Change Log
Overview and analyzer has been updated in the OP, and the picture of the XWT: + Show Spoiler [New Center] + EDIT: It is uploaded on EU, US will come within 24 hours I think. | ||
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Dudemeister
Sweden314 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
This one has a few minor changes and prepares the map to be submitted to the TeamLiquid Map Making Contest. And it also attempts to fix the, according to some, too-dark lighting. New lighting: This will hopefully solve the problems it had with some people thinking the map was too dark. Now it is taking place during a cloudy and rainy day instead of during the night. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mOR22.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/blNnb.jpg) Change Log 1.3 (SEA only)
1.4 (internal release)
1.5
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
These images are ~4000x4000px, and around 4 MiB large, so feel free to look around EDIT: On October 29 2011 16:41 Sea_Food wrote: This map should be the perfect experiment for the contest, because as what I have seen the community likes maps where there are as many doodas as possible, but blizzard seems to like maps where there as few as possible doodas. Im interested to see how well will this map do. I agree, it will be interesting as there may be many reasons for not choosing Concrete Dreams :/ | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
New version finally on US servers! For all of you who have complained about the map being too dark, especially those using the US server, version 1.6 has finally after all this time been uploaded to US servers. The previous version on US servers was 1.2, so to make a quick recap of the major changes:
Changes in the new version 1.6:
EDIT: Currently published on US as "TPW Concrete Dreams-", by the user TPW (because of naming problems) | ||
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FoxyMayhem
624 Posts
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On January 06 2012 22:24 PiPoGevy wrote: This is beautiful... Sadly this does not matter at all, because many people are convinced that this map is redundant because it is "so similar to Terminus SE". This was the major reason it was excluded from the TeamLiquid Map Contest, its similarities to Terminus SE. I do not agree with that, more on that later in this post. Sea_Food put it quite nicely: On October 29 2011 16:41 Sea_Food wrote: This map should be the perfect experiment for the contest, because as what I have seen the community likes maps where there are as many doodas as possible, but blizzard seems to like maps where there as few as possible doodas. Im interested to see how well will this map do. They said that they do not want to have redundancy in the map pool, I can understand that, but I disagree with them when it comes to Concrete Dreams because Terminus RE/SE never has been in Blizzard's map pool for which the contest was arranged. But that is all past, so I won't really complain about it, I just put it here so all of you who wondered why this map did not go further in TLMC will know. Personally I think this map will play out quite differently from Terminus RE/SE, mainly because you don't get a "free" third when you wall off your natural, instead you have to wall off later in the game to secure it (and by then you usually do not need to, as you have a standing army + the backdoor becomes a bit of a problem too as it is somewhat far away). Also, the size of the map is much smaller which will force more engagements instead of passively sitting on 3-5 bases and splitting the map (although this can still happen though, but depends more on the players than on the map). So I'm hoping that Concrete Dreams finally will get the attention it in my opinion I think it deserves. On January 05 2012 07:39 FoxyMayhem wrote: I'm so glad you're still working on this map. I hope to never see another Terminus again, with Concrete Dreams taking its place. I can up to a point agree with FoxyMayhem, and yes, I'm still working on this map from time to time, but now it seem to become quite stable. Most of the stuff people have complained about has been fixed (mainly the dark lighting, but that is now corrected thanks to the new upload on NA servers). Also, for all those people on EU who want to try out this map and don't want to use the Blizzard AI and don't have a friend who wants to play, I have uploaded a version with Green Tea AI, named as "TPW Concrete Dreams Green Tea AI". I have played a few times with it, and it works quite well. Sadly as it is an AI, it won't attempt to exploit air harass or drops as a human opponent would. EDIT: I have now finally updated the OP and replaced all the screenshots with new images using the lighting from 1.5. All the old images have been put into a spoiler so you can compare with the old lighting if you want. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
How close are the rush distances? It seems like apart from cross spawn, the rush distances are a bit too close. | ||
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NullCurrent
Sweden245 Posts
On January 08 2012 02:00 Seeker wrote: I love the map. I honestly think it would result in some great/amazing games. How close are the rush distances? It seems like apart from cross spawn, the rush distances are a bit too close. As it says in the OP, the rush distance for close positions are about 117 AU for natural to natural, which is the same as on Xel'Naga Caverns. But as the natural choke is much narrower, I think it is definitely quite safe to expand early in the game (maybe not a 15 CC or so, but at least early). Also, it is a 4 spawn map, which will make it harder to find your opponent early, making rush builds harder to execute (the cross spawn is 140 AU natural to natural btw). Versus Green Tea AI I've been able to repeatedly do a 15 CC into 3 rax wall followed by 2 factory tanks vs Hard without too much of a problem (Hard Green Tea AI is maphacking but not yet resource cheating, Very Hard is gradually resource cheating but with the same logic). Sadly the AI is not as good at micro, otherwise my somewhat bad micro skills would have been greatly strained to keep the wall alive . | ||
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