Title: Star Battle 1.2 Author: zedu Description: The battle between Terran and Protoss fleets in open space. Official Website:playstarbattle.com (go here for league, forums, guide, etc.)
Star Battle is a 6v6 capital ship scenario that draws inspiration from Dota, Star Trek, and others to make for a pretty enjoyable ums game. You pick your ship, kill the masses of interceptor creeps that flow from the opposing side to purchase upgrades for your ship, and endeavor to destroy the opposing team's mothership. Each ship (Battlecruiser, Carrier, Destroyer, and Leviathan) has its own unique abilities and fighting style.
In my experience so far i find the game to be well made, well balanced, and fun to play. What do you guys think about it? Try it out if you haven't yet!
I have recently uploaded version with spectator mode working.
Unfortunately I have not account nor I know anyone on SEA battle.net, so I can't upload it there for now.
Speaking of balance, I try to monitor it all the time. At this moment I have several ideas I am going to realize in future version. For example I am planning to add randomly generated "terrain" objects to map (such as asteroids ships would be able to hide behind, and wrecked ships which players would be able to salvage for crystals). Another idea I have is adding powerful upgrades, which would require weaker upgrades to buy (for example after purchasing 10 laser upgrades and 10 missile upgrades, attack speed upgrade would be unlocked) and would be unique to each ship. I am of course planning to add more ships (for example Void Ray).
I am looking forward to hearing any news about the tournament too.
Greetings zedu
Helpful Star Battle tricks courtesy of hoper7
On December 06 2010 21:00 hoper7 wrote: Hey guys, thought some of you might be interested in this little amateur video I made for the purpose of filling the movement strategy on star battle wiki.
Been playing this game on the EU for a while now, usually as a carrier with a massive energy pool. Vortexes to get into a perfect ganking postition is pretty cool, but using a vortex defensively to take someone following you or an ally out is just such a win feeling. Also, agree with the guy above that feedback is slightly op, i dont play other ships mostly because they lose in an energy draining fight.
I love playing with no reliance on energy. Feedback is still anoying, but not nearly as much. In a 6-man team, there's always place for that one guy who only upgrades damage, armor & speed, warps in to provide DPS where needed and farms otherwise.
I just got done with a game and I have to say there is a lot of depth to it, especially with a very well coordinated team. Theres that guy who decides to support everyone and throw down PDDs all over the place, allowing his allies to wipe up.
Also, there is a chance for the solo guys to just mass upgrade weapons and speed, only relying on themselves to corner and gank another ship. Great map
Upgrading interceptors/wraiths/mutalisks seems pointless because they only launch when you are attack-moving, and that means your ship is decelerating / not moving (and I feel like moving around constantly is key since you need to be able to get away quickly if attacked) - maybe they should launch automatically whenever an enemy is within range? Dunno
Not even, it was in the 1500 range when I was playing it about 4 hours ago and it's probably in to maybe even 2000 by now. Apparently it's been top of EU for a long while already
I'm starting to get annoyed by people comparing this to DotA. Of course, it does have a few similarities, but the gameplay and battles are based around entirely different principles. Apart from the "two bases in the opposing corners of the map send creeps and heroes fight and try to gank each other" thing, it's actually not very similar at all. There are no stuns or slows, variety in heroes is discarded in favor of greater differences between builds, there is no terrain...
If i had to compare it to a map from WC3 it'll be Battleships or Battletanks if anyone has played them. No where near the level of customization as bships but it's a new map so it's expected. Quite fun tho. Nothing is more fun then fooling around with levi getting a shitton of energy and spawning 10 corrupters in a big battle.
On November 30 2010 01:16 dgReborn wrote: If i had to compare it to a map from WC3 it'll be Battleships or Battletanks if anyone has played them. No where near the level of customization as bships but it's a new map so it's expected. Quite fun tho. Nothing is more fun then fooling around with levi getting a shitton of energy and spawning 10 corrupters in a big battle.
Well battleships also had that whole money thing with smuggling etc. which added a lot of depth
Been winning most of my games with mass range upgrade into missle upgrades (the missles that hit players/buildings only). I find this method easier to win compared to using the upgraded abilities and most players will probably adopt the same method of playing soon once they figure it out.
My favorite build with the carrier is to open up with psi storm and a few energy and engine upgrades. I find a big battle and throw a few storms on the concentrated fighters, and rack up tons of cash from the kills. I then get heavy energy and engine upgrades. At this point I can be storming the crap out of fighters, and also keeping the enemy players away with my cannon ability.
Once I rack up enough cash, I transition into missile and range upgrades for heavy DPS. I get lots of player kills because they don't realize how fast I'm dealing damage, and by the time they are trying to run away, I finish them off with the cannon.
The main drawback to this build is and opponent with feedback will make you pretty useless in the early game.
On November 29 2010 22:58 Oglokoog wrote: I'm starting to get annoyed by people comparing this to DotA. Of course, it does have a few similarities, but the gameplay and battles are based around entirely different principles. Apart from the "two bases in the opposing corners of the map send creeps and heroes fight and try to gank each other" thing, it's actually not very similar at all. There are no stuns or slows, variety in heroes is discarded in favor of greater differences between builds, there is no terrain...
On November 30 2010 03:07 IrT4nkz wrote: Been winning most of my games with mass range upgrade into missle upgrades (the missles that hit players/buildings only). I find this method easier to win compared to using the upgraded abilities and most players will probably adopt the same method of playing soon once they figure it out.
This has pretty much become the only viable thing to do, sadly... and ofc speed.
The range and missiles can easily be balanced by adjusting the upgrade mineral cost to be more expensive, increasing the cost effectiveness of the other weapon choices. That said it would be fantastic if they split the speed upgrade into 3 parts, top speed, acceleration, and turning. This would put a far greater emphasis on play style, high acceleration would reward warp-in play, high top speed for strafing runs and run downs, and turning for avoidance and scrappy close in combat(note turn speed would greatly effect your ability to align on the target for specials).
One possibility with that speed setup would be to link the cost of speed upgrades, it costs 25, 50, 100... etc. So you pay 25 for rank 1 speed, 50 for rank 2 speed, at this point it would cost 100 to get rank 3, speed or rank 1 acceleration or rank 1 turning. Of course all numbers would be need to be subject to balance but the overall concept would be to a a pick your poison situation, you have 3 options you can only really viably pick at most 2.
This game is enjoyable and fun but lack of depth, and lack of micro-management for tournament. Plus it is very effortless to make. No terrain play/strategy, its just blank terrain with Blizzard beautiful planet background. This map prolly takes only 2 hours to implement.
What I mean by lack of depth is all ships has same speed, damage. The only difference is Leviathan has no shield, and different abilities for each ships.
Lack of micro as well as there is no aiming, it autofires. it just like playing roach snakes all you need to do is hit right click. Although you can cast different abilities in this game.
Still.. very fun to play. I am just puzzled by many posters saying this is tournament quality map. Need much much more depth before we can go into tournament. And No micro = no skill. But the potential is definitely there
Playing this map, Nexus Wars, Desert Strike, Battlecraft, Income Wars, Marine Arena, I feel bad for mapmakers who are too creative for their own good.
A lot of maps down below that are not popular but are very creative, complex and has lots of depth. The thing is: Average Joe loves simple tug of war maps. A game that's a bit complex and they'll give up.
Carrier, get the Cannon upgrade thing and get the upgrade that gives one more shot from it and spend the rest of your money on energy until you got like 400. You regen 125 in under 5 seconds, so you can just spam it and do basically 2100+ damage every 9 seconds.
On November 30 2010 09:08 afrosama wrote: This game is enjoyable and fun but lack of depth, and lack of micro-management for tournament. Plus it is very effortless to make. No terrain play/strategy, its just blank terrain with Blizzard beautiful planet background. This map prolly takes only 2 hours to implement.
What I mean by lack of depth is all ships has same speed, damage. The only difference is Leviathan has no shield, and different abilities for each ships.
Lack of micro as well as there is no aiming, it autofires. it just like playing roach snakes all you need to do is hit right click. Although you can cast different abilities in this game.
Still.. very fun to play. I am just puzzled by many posters saying this is tournament quality map. Need much much more depth before we can go into tournament. And No micro = no skill. But the potential is definitely there
Even though I'm completely in love with this map, I totally understand where you're coming from. I still think Star Battle is really well made because of its accessibility (so easy to drop in and play at what immediately appears to be a high level), as well as the fact that it feels like it's very deep (the ship upgrade options and potential for naval combat strategy really do it for me) even if it actually isn't.
You're right on about the lack of micro making the game easy though (the game would be much less enjoyable if you had to aim imo ^_^). I don't think a Star Battle tournament environment would be particularly fun or appropriate, and maybe it is kind've a simple map, but we won't know for sure what kind of depth lies beneath the surface of this game until people play it consistently at a high level.
This game is too complex. I love complexity but this is an ums map in the form of dota not an rpg map. yes the games go past 20 minutes every game and frequently hit an hour but there's just too much going on from the start only to be boring later on.
Im just going to list a few ideas some may be just a poke some neccessary.
The upgrades should be in 2-3 tiers for both types, needing one upgrade in the previous tier to unlock higher ones.
protoss ships should still warp, terran ships should commence a bullet-like hyperdrive at a superfast speed with warped trail that requires a charge up same as toss but has limited range (like 1/2 length of map), zerg ships should start with 1 speed upgrade and have no warp with cheaper speed ups.
only start with batteries and have the option to include missles, fighters, or entirely new upgraded batteries
Ships should have the options to become carriers with racial fighters of their choosing(phx scout, corruptor, muta, viking, wraith) each fighter type having different speciality and the stats listed on the main ship so you can quantify the affect of your upgrading them.
One ship could be 20-30% larger and stronger than the others. this captial ship would just be whoever on the team has the highest rank and is just a buffed version of whatever they choose at the start.
just some ideas idk whats possible or what will work.
This just got to first place in the map list :D Great map, love the gameplay and the map looks so awesome even without any terrain
My suggestion for the future updates are that every 5 or so minutes, 3 asteroids randomly spawn along the mid line of the map and whichever team can hold the asteroids and stay on top of it, they get bonus income. It is like a mini king of the hill. For each 5 second the team holds the asteroids, they will get 10 minerals (adjust the amount for balance if necessary) and the asteroids will disappear after few minutes. I think this will add little more strategy/depth into this awesome game since each team will have option of sending 2 ships to each in hope of securing all 3 of them and get siginificant advantage quickly but also risk losing their lives, or have all 6 ships go to 1 asteroids to secure it for sure.
Started with a bunch of newbies that got really careless and got killed. My last ally left and I parked his ship behind the Command center.
I was the protoss. I went for 10k shield and shield and feedback upgrade. I rounded all the upgrades to keep cost low and upgrade high. When people got near, they got pummeled severely and eventually I could take out 2 ship at once with the shield having very high regen. I just feedback other ship to keep them from using abilities.
I can confirm that I am in direct contact with the map-maker. We are adding spectator mode and looking into balance changes for the next version. Once that happens, I will be announcing an official tournament, hopefully with TL backing. I will put in $500 from Cynicalbrit.com as prize money and am looking for a sponsor to match that.
On November 30 2010 17:55 FlySoGood wrote: SEA version please?
Yes Yes yes yes yes, anyway when playing on NA I usualy go toss speed ,weapons and shields you need to be able chase down almost anything so keep your speed high.
On November 30 2010 23:22 Vod.kaholic wrote: Nukes need some re-balancing in this game to address the potential for instagibbing when enough people have nukes.
Nukes are easily avoided by having enough engine speed, plus you get a couple of seconds warning before launch to give you time to turn.
On November 30 2010 22:20 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can confirm that I am in direct contact with the map-maker. We are adding spectator mode and looking into balance changes for the next version. Once that happens, I will be announcing an official tournament, hopefully with TL backing. I will put in $500 from Cynicalbrit.com as prize money and am looking for a sponsor to match that.
On November 30 2010 22:20 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can confirm that I am in direct contact with the map-maker. We are adding spectator mode and looking into balance changes for the next version. Once that happens, I will be announcing an official tournament, hopefully with TL backing. I will put in $500 from Cynicalbrit.com as prize money and am looking for a sponsor to match that.
Awesome that you're in contact, 'cause he doesn't seem to reply to my mails. :C Definitely looking forward to a tournament, and whatever new additions are being made.
On November 30 2010 23:22 Vod.kaholic wrote: Nukes need some re-balancing in this game to address the potential for instagibbing when enough people have nukes.
edit: I mean the regular pew-pew Yamato cannon-like nukes, not the actual nuclear missile.
I find that the absolutely only problem with Nukes is that they become near-impossible to spot in a battle where fighters are present. With so many explosions, it is not easy to spot that tiny rocket homing in on you.
It's a really fun game, I randomed into a team that worked kinda well and we roflstomped the other team, we had like 5 BC nuking winthin 6 minutes, 2 carriers on the other side couldn't feedback enough of us.
The game still needs more depth, I'd add a couple more ships (good chance of this happening, tempest and the-thing-that-was-like-the-guardina-but-was-removed are still around) As well as differentiating the ships more, as of now the carrier is the only one that handles differently than the other 3, and the leviathan is the only one that fights differently. I'd like to see the ships get distinct roles like nuker, support, DPS, and tank. I'd also like to see more things to do in battle, other than just move around and occasionally toss off a yamato, maybe having to manually fire every salvo of missles? The 'landscape' could also be improved, give us strategic location to fight, but I wouldn't want this to turn into "DOTA in space" it does well enough being separate from DOTA.
Still, very fun game that i've poured a couple hours into.
We should be able to customize the ship before the game starts - selecting different attacks. For example, you should be able to take the wraiths off, and have much more lasers, but less powerful... Something like that.
And a good addiction to the Protoss fleet would be a Void Ray or even the Star Relic. Also, the Leviathan should spawn scourges, instead of mutalisks... hundreds of them.
EDIT: It would also be great to change the creep. Terran could choose between Vikings or Wraiths, and Protoss could choose between Scouts or Phoenix.
Loving this UMS and having played this for a few hrs yesterday.
Some rebalancing needs to be done, but I think that is coming soon. Suggestions that I would like to be implemented. 1) more ships 2) some asteroids that provide cover or limit vision so that an ambush can be set-up. 3) map could be a little bit bigger
I've been loving this UMS map. If anybody wants to play right now, give me a pm on IRC @ ChairmanRay or message me ingame @ mordrid.181. I've been doing pretty well in pub games, having 1-3 kills each round. I've only played carrier, but have been doing well with it. I like playing as a support role, keeping 2 enemies depleted of energy while my teammates go in and kill. Somehow I still manage to get most the kills tho. Pub games =/
On November 30 2010 22:20 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can confirm that I am in direct contact with the map-maker. We are adding spectator mode and looking into balance changes for the next version. Once that happens, I will be announcing an official tournament, hopefully with TL backing. I will put in $500 from Cynicalbrit.com as prize money and am looking for a sponsor to match that.
Cool stuff, when I heard you mention tournament i winced, but if there will be balance beforehand that would be excellent. 6 carriers, 6 photon barrage, instant kill available with your initial money, incredibly boring way to play, but give people an incentive...
To the guy who said he zedu wasnt responding to emails, a couple of weeks ago before the map was released in the US he responed within half an hour to my bug report, so try to be patient, I expect he's swamped at the moment.
It's pretty addictive but there's just so little micro involved that it gets a little boring after a while. I mean a noob grabbing his balls and clicking with his mouse will do almost as good as you trying to play to 100% since there's no targeting.
The ships need to differ from each other imo everyone having the same normal attacks is boring and ganking with mass teleport is also way too powerful. Obviously you need to be careful but 3 guys coming after you with same speed will kill you everytime if they happen to get in range and the "towers" don't really give enough cover from that... you need to be able to make it make to base which doesn't happen.
My main complaint so far is the flatness of the map. I get that you can’t have traditional terrain in space, trees, cliffs, etc, but what about very slow moving randomized asteroid fields that you have to weave through as you move throughout the map. Asteroids would provide cover from other ships main weapons while being hit by an asteroid would do maybe 500-1000 damage.
Not really sure how to implement something like that since I don’t have much experience with the map editor but it would defiantly make the map feel less flat as well as making the layout unique each game.
On November 30 2010 22:20 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can confirm that I am in direct contact with the map-maker. We are adding spectator mode and looking into balance changes for the next version. Once that happens, I will be announcing an official tournament, hopefully with TL backing. I will put in $500 from Cynicalbrit.com as prize money and am looking for a sponsor to match that.
Cool stuff, when I heard you mention tournament i winced, but if there will be balance beforehand that would be excellent. 6 carriers, 6 photon barrage, instant kill available with your initial money, incredibly boring way to play, but give people an incentive...
Well an obvious rule to counteract that would be to put a limit of 2 of each type of ship on any one team to prevent cheese.
people spamming the pdd is getting quite annoying now as they are protected form most damage especially when they have 5-6 up and it means that they can just sit outside you base and stop all your farm. I think that it would be better if the pdd didnt block the missiles which each ship gets therefore meaning that it helps in battles but dosnt compleatly own evrything else. also its annying how people can get it right off the bat and just use it asap. mabye makeing it more expesive/ more energy needed would mean that it requires and investment.
I think there needs to be a bit more science vessels/warp prisms on the battlefield. Just slap two or three so that our "safe camp" is a bit bigger. That way it's easier to shuffle back to a safer area where you have damage support, this would mean that games would last a it longer but I think most people agree that the longer the game keep going the more fun you tend to have.
Saying it agian, get rid of the auto - aim. The ships should start with different speeds, and health. How does the idea of wreckage sound? At random intervals, and recked ship will spawn and the team that can bring it back to there spawn or can hold the position, will gain an income bonus, or just straight up minerals
On November 30 2010 22:20 TotalBiscuit wrote: I can confirm that I am in direct contact with the map-maker. We are adding spectator mode and looking into balance changes for the next version. Once that happens, I will be announcing an official tournament, hopefully with TL backing. I will put in $500 from Cynicalbrit.com as prize money and am looking for a sponsor to match that.
Cool stuff, when I heard you mention tournament i winced, but if there will be balance beforehand that would be excellent. 6 carriers, 6 photon barrage, instant kill available with your initial money, incredibly boring way to play, but give people an incentive...
Well an obvious rule to counteract that would be to put a limit of 2 of each type of ship on any one team to prevent cheese.
Just mentioned the carrier as it has the highest damage cannon spell, the others arent far behind. I'm not at all trying to throw a dampener over the idea, because I think it would be really fun. But I tend to attack problems from a "total bastard" point of view, and 6 ships together as a clump with cannons was the cheapest way I could see to instantly win.
Just to re-state what I meant to say earlier: A coordinated team with 3-4 carriers getting Plasma Barrage and speed at the beginning is really strong, because it basically guarantees that one guy dies after any heated skirmish. High-damage spells need to be rebalanced so you can't afford one right at the outset, or the game will get pretty ridiculous as people get more coordinated.
As far as counters go, there aren't many short of having a couple of BCs with EMP ready, or a lot of feedback-carriers. Cloak can also help cancel the cast of the cannon spells on the guy being focused, but only carriers get this benefit.
Yeah, it's official. Carrier is the most hilariously overpowered thing in this game mode if you build it right. What is right?
Get the Cannon and Warp right away and spend the rest of your money on energy. Get about 500 or so more money and warp back, get instant warp upgrade and spend the rest on energy. You should have upwards of 450-500 energy at this point. You also regen about 100 energy over 8ish seconds. Go out and start helping your team out in battles more, spam your freaking Cannon. You can do ridiculous DPS at this point, but you're not done.
Go back and get 3 levels of the CD reduction on the cannon. It should only be on a 6-7 CD when you're done depending on your money inflow.
Now, add in the factors that you got instant warp across the map at any time, a completely spammable 2100+ damage spell, and almost infinite supply on energy and you can just go on your LOLTRAIN. We were pushing the enemy Warp Prism's and as they kept trying to engage us (we were 3, they were 5) I just kept Cannoning them. I brought almost all of them down to no shields, and the bug guy I got him down to about half health before I had to back out. On the other one, it was 5v6, and they simply kept them busy as my lolcannon bursted down the Warp Prism (my attack had a 5 second CD now btw) and took it down in like 4 or 5 shots, since I got the extra cannon shots upgrade once or twice too.
It's absolutely ridiculous. 5-6 minutes in the game you can 1v3 people without a problem at all. You can single handedly stop an entire push by the enemy team since you can essentially burst down an enemies shield in 12 seconds.
I haven't lost a game (upwards of 25 straight wins) since I started using this.
=0 i've been doing some playing on this map and it seems like one of the best strats is to outrange your opponent. as long as you have the same or more engine speed and like higher range you be able to chase and/or shoot your opponent while he or she cannot attack you. its a great strat when you're the destroyer, and you only need 10 ups+siege tech to do 1050 Dmg+17 range once you get into the 20 min. mark, its completely ridiculous.
Destroyer forever lol. ppl who use carriers and Leviathan like noobs make me laugh. they run in like lerooooyy jjeeennkiiins and then they never move till they hit red, and then someone does that 1600/1500 dmg ability that just nukes them to kingdom come
Taking advantage of range makes me pretty happy. Pumping into speed, range, missiles, and laser batteries, scooting around and shooting from afar.
I realize though that this build makes me a good chaser but other than that I'm not very good at stand up fights. In big brawls, I've found that the team that maneuvers together wins, since their fire is focused while the other teams' is not.
it needs a way to uncloak as more people are figuring out the nukespam cloaking carrier build. also levi with tons of health and rapid regen spam is hax, so hard to kill them when they have almost 20k hp, decent speed and improved rapid regen
Update on the map from the dev ladies and gentlemen
Hello,
I have recently uploaded version with spectator mode working.
Unfortunately I have not account nor I know anyone on SEA battle.net, so I can't upload it there for now.
Speaking of balance, I try to monitor it all the time. At this moment I have several ideas I am going to realize in future version. For example I am planning to add randomly generated "terrain" objects to map (such as asteroids ships would be able to hide behind, and wrecked ships which players would be able to salvage for crystals). Another idea I have is adding powerful upgrades, which would require weaker upgrades to buy (for example after purchasing 10 laser upgrades and 10 missile upgrades, attack speed upgrade would be unlocked) and would be unique to each ship. I am of course planning to add more ships (for example Void Ray).
I am looking forward to hearing any news about the tournament too.
Does anyone else think that Feedback needs to be balanced? When I see two or more carriers on the opposing team I don't even bother getting energy abilities. A lot of the time they run around and feedback everything and nobody does anything but fly around and shoot as a result.
Also I'm a bit confused about the fighters that are carried on the capital ships. For the majority of the game I use the move command, not attack move or attack, since this causes the ship to stop and accelerating takes forever. I've noticed that the capital ships only launch ships when you're not moving (I think), so becasue of that my wraiths just durdle around onboard my BC all day.
Also, I'm wondering if anyone else thinks that turn speed should be nerfed, so that we're more battle-shippy.
There is a way to launch fighters while moving, hold position and move right after, this will launch 1 fighter each time you do it, fighter tho will attack whatever they want. Also does someone know if speed upgrapes also apply to fighters?
My game stats seem to have gotten glitched or lost or something - At the moment, my stats say that I have 6 games, 1 win, 36 kills ( I actually had around 20 games). Anyone else having problems with stats?
My stats glitched as well; Last night I had a good 48 games, 25 wins, 56 kills. Today it was 48/0/0. (Yes, I know I play it alot, its addicting)
Another idea would be to add double kill/triple kill temporary buffs. For example, if you kill 2or 3 people within a certain time between each other, you get a buff that lasts for say, 3 minutes where you get more damage/armor/speed/etc. Food for thought, since double/triple kills would be so highly unlikely that it probably wouldn't be too abused.
I agree that feedback and emp are too powerful. I went emp heavy a few games in a row and never lost because the opponents could never cast spells on us.
This map is really great, even if it's just for the eye candy I love looking at the background. And I was a big fan of battleships back in warcraft 3 so it's kind of the same concept.
A few things I noticed: - Feedback is brutal, it should burn less energy because right now it just shuts you down. - The turning speed of the carrier is what all the others should have. It feels like driving an 18 wheeler truck while the battle cruiser turns on a dime. Since there is no micro involved in aiming, the map should focus more on how to drive your ship proprely. - There is not enough emphasis on the towers. They should be much bigger, to make them really look like space stations instead of some random tiny outpost. And their cannons need an upgrade. - Fighters launched from ships should not give money. If you go for a fighter build, you may end up feeding your enemies. - The mothership should be an actual ship, it's too awesome a model to waste on a home base.
As for home bases themselves, it would be cool if it was a whole complex of buildings, I'm sure you can modify terran buildings to make them look more like space stations, and depending on which ones blow up, it cuts down on options for the team losing them. Maybe they spawn less fighters, or if you blow up the ''repair station'', the enemy team can't auto-repair their ships anymore.
This map has great potential, in a few months it's gonna be epic!!!
Altho it is fun as it is. I think there is alot more to be done. I still am hoping for multiple weapon types like in Battleships on WC3. The fact that every ship has the same on board weapons, while balanced, is rather boring. The differing spells are nice but i feel that there can be alot more variety to the actual weapons.
On December 02 2010 02:26 Krowser wrote: This map is really great, even if it's just for the eye candy I love looking at the background. And I was a big fan of battleships back in warcraft 3 so it's kind of the same concept.
A few things I noticed: - Feedback is brutal, it should burn less energy because right now it just shuts you down. - The turning speed of the carrier is what all the others should have. It feels like driving an 18 wheeler truck while the battle cruiser turns on a dime. Since there is no micro involved in aiming, the map should focus more on how to drive your ship proprely. - There is not enough emphasis on the towers. They should be much bigger, to make them really look like space stations instead of some random tiny outpost. And their cannons need an upgrade. - Fighters launched from ships should not give money. If you go for a fighter build, you may end up feeding your enemies. - The mothership should be an actual ship, it's too awesome a model to waste on a home base.
As for home bases themselves, it would be cool if it was a whole complex of buildings, I'm sure you can modify terran buildings to make them look more like space stations, and depending on which ones blow up, it cuts down on options for the team losing them. Maybe they spawn less fighters, or if you blow up the ''repair station'', the enemy team can't auto-repair their ships anymore.
This map has great potential, in a few months it's gonna be epic!!!
All great ideas, I completely second this, also, perhaps work in the void ray somehow? (maybe by using the hero one from the campaign as a cap ship?)
I third everything he said. Great map though, discovered it yesterday and ended up not going in to work after playing it all day.
I disagree with the "nerf carrier super attack builds" - as I don't even find them the best way to play the carrier, which for me seems to be farming with psi storm into tank (shield + shield regen ability) build. But each to his own, which is what makes me think it's currently somewhat balanced .
Fighter builds need to be made viable though. + fighter dmg upgrades should increase speed of the fighters slightly, and they definitely should not feed your opponents money.
On December 02 2010 02:26 Krowser wrote: This map is really great, even if it's just for the eye candy I love looking at the background. And I was a big fan of battleships back in warcraft 3 so it's kind of the same concept.
A few things I noticed: - The turning speed of the carrier is what all the others should have. It feels like driving an 18 wheeler truck while the battle cruiser turns on a dime. Since there is no micro involved in aiming, the map should focus more on how to drive your ship proprely.
You can turn all the ships at a similar rate if you click behind the ship to turn it before starting your move command.
Fun map, and seems to be pretty well made, but will never survive in a competitive environment because it has such an asburdly low skill cap. But I doubt the creator cares too much about that. Props to him
I want to see ship turning/momentum, asteriods, and line based (non-homing) attacks, so that you can actually (kinda dog fight and) weave around asteriods, using them to shield you from attacks. Perhaps make the void ray, raven, and corrupters a different class of ship (significantly faster, and more attack range and attack options (mines, bombs, manual aim missiles), but having less hp and somewhat weaker attack damage.
Hey guys, got tired of playing ladder juggling around 2300 points and started trying this out. Got a small question. Sometimes when I engage an enemy capital ship I won't use the main gun (i.e. the backlash missles for destroyer) and will only use the small faster shooting gun. I always try to get within what I think is 7 range and sometimes it just won't shoot the missles and only use the rapid fire gun. I tried just right clicking the target ship and moving close and it doesn't work. Any tips on how I can use the bigger gun more often instead of the smaller gun?
Love the map, but I don't know if I'm first to realize this, or no one has posted it yet, Bnet hates Star Battle. I don't know why, but it is becoming a trend: I join a game lobby and at least 1 person is "pending," then once you enter the game it tells you that 2/3 people have been dropped right off the bat, then, after all that, in the middle of the game, of the remaining 10 or so players, 1 or 2 get lagged like crazy and drop mid game. If you are lucky you get a 4v4, but it always turns out to be like 3v4, 2v5, or even 1v6. It makes the game no fun.
Now, I'm not blaming this on you, but I just want to let you know that this is a common trend taking place in your game, not a one time event, it is a trend . I'd hate for your awesome game to fall victim to lag bug like it currently does--permanently--so if you could please do a bug fix patch or something I'd totally love the game even more (if that is even possible).
Just for your reference, I'm on NA servers and the events I describe started to trend around 2:00 AM EST, 12/2/2010 (yeah I know, but I love this game).
- The mothership should be an actual ship, it's too awesome a model to waste on a home base.
Fucking this times a thousand. We also have the modles off all the hero toss units from the campaign, The tempest - which was supposed to replace the carrier. Also that Swarm Guardian thing that was gonig to replace the guardian.
Excited about the proposed patch notes with asteroids, salvage and of course more ships. In 2 months we won't even recognize ths game, but it will be amazing.
On December 02 2010 17:07 FinestHour wrote: Hey guys, got tired of playing ladder juggling around 2300 points and started trying this out. Got a small question. Sometimes when I engage an enemy capital ship I won't use the main gun (i.e. the backlash missles for destroyer) and will only use the small faster shooting gun. I always try to get within what I think is 7 range and sometimes it just won't shoot the missles and only use the rapid fire gun. I tried just right clicking the target ship and moving close and it doesn't work. Any tips on how I can use the bigger gun more often instead of the smaller gun?
The missile launcher has a cooldown and fires automatically.
On December 02 2010 17:07 FinestHour wrote: Hey guys, got tired of playing ladder juggling around 2300 points and started trying this out. Got a small question. Sometimes when I engage an enemy capital ship I won't use the main gun (i.e. the backlash missles for destroyer) and will only use the small faster shooting gun. I always try to get within what I think is 7 range and sometimes it just won't shoot the missles and only use the rapid fire gun. I tried just right clicking the target ship and moving close and it doesn't work. Any tips on how I can use the bigger gun more often instead of the smaller gun?
The missile launcher has a cooldown and fires automatically.
No, he's right, if you stay still your missiles occasionally stop firing.
On December 02 2010 17:07 FinestHour wrote: Hey guys, got tired of playing ladder juggling around 2300 points and started trying this out. Got a small question. Sometimes when I engage an enemy capital ship I won't use the main gun (i.e. the backlash missles for destroyer) and will only use the small faster shooting gun. I always try to get within what I think is 7 range and sometimes it just won't shoot the missles and only use the rapid fire gun. I tried just right clicking the target ship and moving close and it doesn't work. Any tips on how I can use the bigger gun more often instead of the smaller gun?
The missile launcher has a cooldown and fires automatically.
No, he's right, if you stay still your missiles occasionally stop firing.
Really? My bad, lol.
I guess a good solution is to never stop. The acceleration is so brutal in this game that spamming move should be the standard
Definitely, I rarely use my fighters because I never right click to attack. Always try and be between them and their base, and moving in the same direction as them. Alternately, vortex them and wait for your entire team to warp to you, at which point finesse really isnt required. While I'm farming I'll generally be clicking behind the ship every few seconds. This helps scoop up stray fighters, means you can turn anywhere without the carrier doing its adorable beached whale impression and keeps your engines going so you dont have to accelerate in an emergency. It also prevents the missile stall thing I was talking about.
A tournament for this map would be interesting. I can definitely see some intricate strategies being played out with this map. It's a lot of fun to play when you have a good team and are going against comparably skilled opponents. On the other hand, it's not that fun if your team completely falters like it did when I played it (recorded it, check the video): http://www.youtube.com/user/photohuntsStarcraft?feature=mhum#p/c/ECA6954A665E9C6C/16/SMp2JN-IAOU
On December 02 2010 17:07 FinestHour wrote: Hey guys, got tired of playing ladder juggling around 2300 points and started trying this out. Got a small question. Sometimes when I engage an enemy capital ship I won't use the main gun (i.e. the backlash missles for destroyer) and will only use the small faster shooting gun. I always try to get within what I think is 7 range and sometimes it just won't shoot the missles and only use the rapid fire gun. I tried just right clicking the target ship and moving close and it doesn't work. Any tips on how I can use the bigger gun more often instead of the smaller gun?
The missile launcher has a cooldown and fires automatically.
No, he's right, if you stay still your missiles occasionally stop firing.
Missiles will also stop firing if your target is too close to you. If any other suitable targets are nearby, they will go for one of those instead. This can be used when on the run, by moving closer to your enemy.
By the way, does anyone know how the increased firing speeds work? Since day one I've been seeing people who randomly get increased firing speed, most of the time everyone has them. My own guess is that they're related to fighter kills and works like veterancy.
I am wondering if the games played is able to be fixed as it reads something new every time. The only reason I ask is because I would love to see the leveling eg. private, commander to be used more or to have to get more kills to get them as I think it would be a great way to get achievements if only a small bit lol into the game as well. Aside from that keep up the great work!!
I'm the light green player in the first one and purple in the second one
These were both very good games of star battle and had a bit of that back and forth, which we love so much. We met in a random pub lobby thing in the first game by chance and in the second game, we ended up getting groups together and letting pubbers fill the empty spaces. It was basically a 3v4 in game 1 and then a 4v4 in game 2.
LFM premade US server. I play heavy Spellcasting Leviathan.
I will be playing at work, so sometimes I will have to AFK during daytime Eastern time zone hours. I play very seriously when this doesn't happen, though. It is winter and I sell recreational vehicles so my afk miles will vary.
On December 03 2010 02:28 Ryalnos wrote: WTB chat channels for this kind of thing.
Join #starbattle on irc.quakenet.org (don't be disappointed though - I just created the channel, so there's almost nobody there... but I think that if anyone wants to find a person to play with, it would be better to do that on the IRC rather than spam this thread with LFG requests)
On December 02 2010 18:00 elkram wrote: Love the map, but I don't know if I'm first to realize this, or no one has posted it yet, Bnet hates Star Battle. I don't know why, but it is becoming a trend: I join a game lobby and at least 1 person is "pending," then once you enter the game it tells you that 2/3 people have been dropped right off the bat, then, after all that, in the middle of the game, of the remaining 10 or so players, 1 or 2 get lagged like crazy and drop mid game. If you are lucky you get a 4v4, but it always turns out to be like 3v4, 2v5, or even 1v6. It makes the game no fun.
Now, I'm not blaming this on you, but I just want to let you know that this is a common trend taking place in your game, not a one time event, it is a trend . I'd hate for your awesome game to fall victim to lag bug like it currently does--permanently--so if you could please do a bug fix patch or something I'd totally love the game even more (if that is even possible).
Just for your reference, I'm on NA servers and the events I describe started to trend around 2:00 AM EST, 12/2/2010 (yeah I know, but I love this game).
Just noticed this post today, and i agree! Every single game that I joined had at least one person drop. Every game. Did this happen to anyone else?
I usually go 2x or 3x engine, a few range, missile and missile number at the start and just go engage in fights. At some point I get warp (sooner rather than later, of course) and continue massing range, missile damage, missile attack number until I do such ridiculous amounts of damage at such ridiculous distances that nobody can hope to even do damage to me. (sometimes it doesn't work, of course )
For a pure farming build, get 4 upgrades of attack, 2 engine upgrades, and you can either go farm, or wait for 10-15 seconds at base for getting the warp-in upgrade. You need good teamwork because this build is fragile early game since you have zero offensive spells, but your farm will accelerate much faster than any other build. In DotA/HoN terms, this is basically a carry build.
Also, I have been testing with a mass armor build with the Battlecruiser, and relying on pure defense with PDD. It's been working decently against people who use a lot of normal attacks, but focused spell damage will always be a problem.
On December 03 2010 05:34 Phelix wrote: For a pure farming build, get 4 upgrades of attack, 2 engine upgrades, and you can either go farm, or wait for 10-15 seconds at base for getting the warp-in upgrade. You need good teamwork because this build is fragile early game since you have zero offensive spells, but your farm will accelerate much faster than any other build. In DotA/HoN terms, this is basically a carry build.
Also, I have been testing with a mass armor build with the Battlecruiser, and relying on pure defense with PDD. It's been working decently against people who use a lot of normal attacks, but focused spell damage will always be a problem.
My farming build barely beats yours, take the aoe spell depending on your race, take 2 engines and one energy upgrade.
As soon as any of the enemies start to stream out fighters OR when your team makes a little push to their science vessels, one use of your AOE will wipe out 10-15 creeps easily.
You may also use all the aoe spells to "deny" an enemy from killing creeps, as in the situation of a massive number of allied interceptors/mutalisks/wraiths following a fleeing enemy - kill those and your enemy will not benefit from them.
I also envision an entire team taking these spells to start and stagger killing their own creeps with it at the very start of the game to make the enemy team fight on your side closer to your science vessels.
On December 02 2010 18:00 elkram wrote: Love the map, but I don't know if I'm first to realize this, or no one has posted it yet, Bnet hates Star Battle. I don't know why, but it is becoming a trend: I join a game lobby and at least 1 person is "pending," then once you enter the game it tells you that 2/3 people have been dropped right off the bat, then, after all that, in the middle of the game, of the remaining 10 or so players, 1 or 2 get lagged like crazy and drop mid game. If you are lucky you get a 4v4, but it always turns out to be like 3v4, 2v5, or even 1v6. It makes the game no fun.
Now, I'm not blaming this on you, but I just want to let you know that this is a common trend taking place in your game, not a one time event, it is a trend . I'd hate for your awesome game to fall victim to lag bug like it currently does--permanently--so if you could please do a bug fix patch or something I'd totally love the game even more (if that is even possible).
Just for your reference, I'm on NA servers and the events I describe started to trend around 2:00 AM EST, 12/2/2010 (yeah I know, but I love this game).
Yeah, this is the case on EU too. I haven't played a single game of Star Battle today that actually started as a 6vs6. Always someone either "pending" before the game starts, dropping once the countdown was running or when the game began.
Something I had problems with is how many minerals you make from farming and that engine upgrades seem game breaking early on. A team of fastest ships always snipes out alot of slower ships within the first 5 mins or has the ability to farm huge amounts of mins without too much fear. The ability to upgrade the spells would also be awesome maybe allow for ship level ups (Tech Tree similar to Zerg Hunter RPG?) to allow for even more customization without the strict need of mineral farming to be superior. So far the most effective build I've been doing is getting a AoE ability like missle pods or psi storm farming up for engine and reactor upgrades and amassing a fortune for straight iwinbuttons.
But the ability to upgrade the effects of spells on various scales (Reduced Energy Cost, CD, Dam , Additional Effects , AoE ) would be really cool and interesting to see.
SHould just up the speed on the ships to start at 1.71 and make the engine upgrades cost the higher amount. Thats all anyone does at the start is get all the engine upgrades. The people who dont just die, so its not like they are even playing anyway.
Then they'd have to reduce your starting money too. I disagree. Besides - I typically only get 1.61 + warp, then 1.71 on my next back-to-base. Not to mention that there's probably some unique strategies in teamwork using slow ships + nuke from the start. Keep engine speed as is.
On December 03 2010 10:28 DiracMonopole wrote: Upping the engine speed would be nice. Its just frustrating to be so slow at the beginning, even with speed upgrades.
Maybe and a short range warp, like blink.
The radar ability should have a range upgrade - if you upgrade your weapon range, eventually you see further than the radar.
Nukes should have friendly fire. Right now its basically just warp on top of enemy, fire nuke.
Nuke already have friendly fire. I once nearly killed myself doing what you said.
Seriously, I just played this for like 8 plus hours straight without eating. It reminds me of when I played Civ: IV. It is really annoying to be like, one more game, and then realize 3 hours later that you haven't stopped and really should nourish yourself once in a while.
Sign of fantastic game, keep up with patching and new ideas (love that everyone now moves like a carrier, brings everyone down to the same level in terms of driver ability vs. ship ability).
That barrage cannon build is pretty legit if you can get a good farm lane initially.
You can either get 3x speed 2x laser, or 2x speed 4x laser. Farm up, then get warp, cannon, 1 cooldown up, then energy ups. I don't think it's necessary to get the warp cooldown upgrade until you have spare cash, since you want to be out farming a lot. Spam cooldown until you're at 4 seconds, and then energy ups, speed, and weapons range. It's pretty lolz, but doesn't work well at all vs a Feedback fleet so don't commit if there are lots of carriers.
US server's quite unreliable for me.. and not to mention laggy.
I'm happy to offer my account for publishing purposes... I'm not sure quite how it works (do you have to send it unprotected?) but rest assured I won't touch it beyond publishing it. Happy to trade whatever contact info required.
Anyways, I grab 4 laser ups plus as much speed as I can get. My first trip back to base is when I grab warp jump, and after I've got enough speed, I start spamming missile ups and range, grabbing 1 or 2 reactor upgrade and yamato (or equivalent), and no more energy spells unless I know there aren't anymore carriers on the field, since Feedback is way too spammable. Once my weapon ups get pretty high, I'll start getting some plating and shield ups, because it helps against the base/creeps/corruptors/interceptors.
The build works great for chasing down capital ships in the mid to late stages, and I 1-shot creeps in the early stages for fast cash. Against a team that knows what they're doing, it fails pretty hard, since they can get 2 big gun shots off in relatively quick succession, taking down 2 people in the first couple of minutes. Unless you do the same, and do it better than them, you're down 2 people from the start....;.I'm not sure how that can be fixed, maybe start those spells off with a much lower damage, like 1000, and have the damage upgradable as the game goes on?
My biggest criticism is that the different ships all feel pretty much the same. They all have very similar abilities, with few outliers. I would like to see more ships and see them deviate from the standard group.
I'm surprised no one has commented on how powerful corruption is for the Leviathan.. my friend specs speed/warp/kamehameha carrier with and I spec speed/corruption/mana/bioblast leviathan and we typically get 5 and 1 or 4 and 2 kills every game and generally ace any team we come across with proper micro and strategy.. the combination of kamehameha and corruption is enough to tip the balance in our favor in most counters
also, vortex is amazing feedback is a little unbalanced
this game is a great example of game design and intelligent implementation of mechanics, if you read this entire thread you'll notice that each person learns through experimentation and discovery with combinations of different elements of the game engine, team strategy, builds and tactics.. feels much more like a customizable strategical sandbox than being overtly given clear and distinct directives, builds and gimmick abilities(SoTis, loose example)
I can see great things coming from this game for the first time in sc2 ums, can't wait for a ridiculous amount of different ships and builds to experiment with!
Right now, I think that a team of cannon-toting ships supporting a ship with a good farming ability is the best way for a team to approach this game and end up with one ship that has massive upgrades to missiles and range. The biggest key is pushing to the enemy towers where their fighter waves clump up easily and letting the farming ship storm/missile barrage them all for a few waves.
Do you guys talk to the maker or something? Possibly add in a way to check what upgrades are possible ingame without having to be next to the main base? Like a sidebar thing or help menu? and without having to alt-tab to check...?
I agree that the brawler levi is almost impossible to make anymore with the turning change. Now I'm not saying change it back but would it be possible to get a small turning increase to go along with our speed boosts not a huge amount just enough to make it viable again.
brawler levi still works but you have to be MUCH more careful when chasing, and usually I try to get speed up to 1.91 or 2.01. also don't forget you can do the carrier's little quickturn thing by clicking behind you. but yeah it feels like I am driving an 18 wheelere instead of a pickup
This game stole aproximately 20 hours of my life already, and I dont want em back! I do want some new, cool ships though, and some prety hard changes to the existing ones, because right now its basicly the same ship with diferent desighn anda few diferent skills.
I think right now (3rd post in thread, but it is such an awesome UMS) a cool idea would be similar to that of Ketara's suggestion: adding uniqueness to each ship. Now I know that is a tough undertaking (blizz has shown time and again that making races unique but equal is a tad bit of a challenge), but you already have some uniqueness with the Leviathan.
Basically the main differences between several units is:
Leviathan: Able to up Attack/Armor real easy (no shields simplifies decision); fantastic as Tanks or Dmg
Battlecruiser (tiny one; i call the big one the destroyer, but i'm sure that's not right) & Carrier: Probably the most similar except for animation and Nuke Ability, but I don't think being 99% similar qualifies as unique
The Destroyer: Siege Mode is ridonculous and if you aren't doing that with this ship, then what is wrong with you?
Basically, it is really the Battlecruiser and Carrier that need more uniqueness. I feel just out of tradition of races that Carrier should be Spellcaster (i.e. relatively cheap and multitudes of spells, would have to weaken overall DMG from spells b/c that would make carrier OP otherwise), and Battlecruiser should be sort of the same.
Basically if you change the Carrier to be more unique, then you get a uniqueness of all 4 ships, and voila, you get different strats for each ship, instead of a one-size-fits-all strat,
Personally, I'd prefer it if there was one that was more maneuverable, but weaker, than the others. The BC fit this role, and was really fun to use pre-patch. Now I can't help but use the carrier, because it's just so versatile, and no ships have the maneuverability advantage anymore.....
On December 04 2010 01:39 elkram wrote: I think right now (3rd post in thread, but it is such an awesome UMS) a cool idea would be similar to that of Ketara's suggestion: adding uniqueness to each ship. Now I know that is a tough undertaking (blizz has shown time and again that making races unique but equal is a tad bit of a challenge), but you already have some uniqueness with the Leviathan.
Basically the main differences between several units is:
Leviathan: Able to up Attack/Armor real easy (no shields simplifies decision); fantastic as Tanks or Dmg
Battlecruiser (tiny one; i call the big one the destroyer, but i'm sure that's not right) & Carrier: Probably the most similar except for animation and Nuke Ability, but I don't think being 99% similar qualifies as unique
The Destroyer: Siege Mode is ridonculous and if you aren't doing that with this ship, then what is wrong with you?
Basically, it is really the Battlecruiser and Carrier that need more uniqueness. I feel just out of tradition of races that Carrier should be Spellcaster (i.e. relatively cheap and multitudes of spells, would have to weaken overall DMG from spells b/c that would make carrier OP otherwise), and Battlecruiser should be sort of the same.
Basically if you change the Carrier to be more unique, then you get a uniqueness of all 4 ships, and voila, you get different strats for each ship, instead of a one-size-fits-all strat,
I think it'd be awesome if the Carrier didn't have a missile attack, but started with 15 Interceptors and launched them without doing attack move.
In fact, I just dislike having to attack move to launch fighters in general. It is hard to make it work sometimes.
This map is Sweet, who didn't watch Star Wars as a kid and say "what newbs, i'd show those losers how to fight.. Capital ship style" Well now you can! Grab a couple friends and start blasting the space lanes!
Has anyone worked up a feasible build that uses the fighter ships? I've always been curious about them but I never tried it out because I'm so skeptical about it.
On December 04 2010 02:36 koreasilver wrote: Has anyone worked up a feasible build that uses the fighter ships? I've always been curious about them but I never tried it out because I'm so skeptical about it.
It's not viable atm simply because enemies gain money from destroying your ships, which means that getting the +5 ships may be more harm than good. If you didnt get money from destroying ships, then it would be viable since the ship upgrade is pretty good.
On December 04 2010 02:36 koreasilver wrote: Has anyone worked up a feasible build that uses the fighter ships? I've always been curious about them but I never tried it out because I'm so skeptical about it.
Fighters can shred anyone who cant kill them fast enough. Once had a friend ask me to come and storm his massive tail of fighters because he couldnt kill them and they were following him all the way home doing crazy damage. Of course, fighters are countered by your short range weapons or moderate armour.
To everyone talking about the lack of differences between ships, you need to look a little harder and try to shape your builds around each ships characteristics.
Leviathan; -Awesome tank, the recharge shields ability on carriers might scale with each shield upgrade purchased, you recharge 40 more with each upgrade, but the heal on leviathan scales with health too, you just have to take armour into account. This is why the armour upgrade on the leviathan gives you 1 armour instead of 3, or else you'd be unstoppable. -The range upgrade on the leviathan boosts ability distance instead of tentacle distance. This means the leviathan can be an awesome sniper. Using the bio-discharge every 6 seconds from a ridiculous distance makes you a speedy seiged destroyer. That can heal. And use corruption.
Battlecruiser; -Nuke is crazy. The ultimate punishment for not paying attention, 6k damage. Even when it doesnt hit, it can force the enemy away from a wounded team mate, or stop them from retreating to their base. Also, seeing people flee from the nearest BC when the alert pops up is win. -Great passive healing with the 2 abilities at the bottom of the tab, while this may not seem much to get excited about, it really does make a difference, dying to being heavily damage sucks, with the bc that damage starts healing extremely fast when youve been out of combat 10 seconds. -PDD's mean that any clash can be made distinctly one sided.
Destroyer -Spamming range and laser upgrades scales seige mode too. Change from a close range scrapper to a sniper in seconds. This means the only real drawback to a heavy laser build, someone quite unsportingly getting armour upgrades, can be wrecked from afar. And now that you can use abilities while in seige mode you can spend your down time laying a field of spider mines between you and your adversary, to punish people trying to get in your minimum fire range. -...Radar's pretty useful to the team I suppose, I only ever do the above when I play destroyer.
Carrier -As people have noted, goddamn feedback. While I love feedback and use it as much as anyone, I wouldnt be particularly unhappy to see its energy drain halved so that abilities had a chance to be used more. In the mean time, spam it indiscriminitely, double points if you make yamato cancel. -You can get 5 extra fighters with the carrier, should you want to try a fighter build. -Vortex is awesome. Use it to gank, use it to take out someone following you home, use it to piss off your friends ("HEY JAMIE, GUESS WHAT...?"). For extra fun while farming, should someone come out from their mothership to ruin your fun, vortex them and then storm as vortex finishes, killing all the fighters that had gone blithely in instantly.
These are just a few things you could use as the base of a build, and really, the differences in the ships are what you make of them. If anyone has any other builds that make use of a ships unique attributes, please do share them.
Final thoughts, hats off to Zedu for keeping the game relatively balanced. I'm hoping at some point he adds the complete patch notes to the help menu, its nice to realise the UMS is under constant revision.
A Leviathan spawning lots of corruptors might be viable since corruptors are pretty beefy (500 HP) and do considerable damage (25, 100 vs massive). They're a bit slow though so you can't really chase with them.
Other than that I would use the Carrier for fighters. Feedback can help prevent your fighters from being hit by aoe spells.
Corruptor leviathan builds work -very- well. Especially as a lot of people currently aren't aware of just how deadly corruptor's, they'll run into a group of 20 of them and die in seconds.
I've been playing carrier a lot, and I think it needs a bit of reworking. There are two obvious imbalances with it - one being feedback, other being photon barrage.
By constantly feedbacking, I can keep two enemies completely depleted of energy. Plus the 1.5k dmg it does is nothing shy. I would just reduce it to 200 energy instead. This way, it doesn't affect people who dont pump energy, but if they choose to become casters, they aren't punished for it.
If you have 3-4 coordinated people using photon barrage, it's instant death for anyone. They can run in, fire a few rounds off, and then fire off barrage. As long as this spell exists, Star Battle will never be anything near competitive. Games will pretty much be everyone being carrier, getting photon barrage right off the bat, and the start getting insta kills. I would tone it down to 1.8k dmg instead of 2.1k. That way you need 5-6 players to insta kill someone.
I would also change the carrier around a bit so that it's more of a support class rather than a damaging class. Both vortex and feedback are good support abilities. The 17% shield spell can be changed into a group heal ability that heals 1.5k hp. We can also add in a guardian shield ability that lasts 15 seconds and blocks 10 dmg. It doesn't have to be these spells, but something to make the carrier into a support role so there can be a bit more teamwork involved.
A good wat to balance the abilities is so that when a player chooses an abilitie, it will lock out other upgrades and abilities. For example, if a player who is using carrier buys the photon barage, the lose defensive upgrades like the sheild recharge, or even sheild upgrades
I feel like Corrupters on Leviathan need tweaking, make them last 1/3 the time they currently do (20 seconds down from 1 minute), make their attack against massive about 33 from 100, and make the energy they cost about 1/3 (17 energy).
This will balance them by making them more micro intensive and less easy-mode-farm-kill.
Right now you can leave a fleet of Corrupters at the enemy lines to farm for you, and you receive all the Minerals from their kills while you go back to buy. This would also make that a non-issue.
On December 04 2010 05:52 Chairman Ray wrote: I've been playing carrier a lot, and I think it needs a bit of reworking. There are two obvious imbalances with it - one being feedback, other being photon barrage.
By constantly feedbacking, I can keep two enemies completely depleted of energy. Plus the 1.5k dmg it does is nothing shy. I would just reduce it to 200 energy instead. This way, it doesn't affect people who dont pump energy, but if they choose to become casters, they aren't punished for it.
If you have 3-4 coordinated people using photon barrage, it's instant death for anyone. They can run in, fire a few rounds off, and then fire off barrage. As long as this spell exists, Star Battle will never be anything near competitive. Games will pretty much be everyone being carrier, getting photon barrage right off the bat, and the start getting insta kills. I would tone it down to 1.8k dmg instead of 2.1k. That way you need 5-6 players to insta kill someone.
I would also change the carrier around a bit so that it's more of a support class rather than a damaging class. Both vortex and feedback are good support abilities. The 17% shield spell can be changed into a group heal ability that heals 1.5k hp. We can also add in a guardian shield ability that lasts 15 seconds and blocks 10 dmg. It doesn't have to be these spells, but something to make the carrier into a support role so there can be a bit more teamwork involved.
Carrier can be a great support ship. The problem is that support ships don't get kill counts as they deal no damage. As long as the map is catered for the casual players, there is no reason to tune down carrier's offensive ability and buff its defensive/supportive abilities.
I love playing my carrier and racking up 3-4 kills counts. Just played a game an hour ago where I killed 5 enemy ships and almost got the 6th one too. :D
It's not that the carrier is overpowered, it's just that I know how to steal kills from teammates.
The primary reason why I stick with carrier is due to feedback. The ability to dictate whether my opponent can use special abilities is just too vital. I tried it out with battlecruiser too and its emp. While EMP is even better than Feedback, the lack of a warp upgrade made me switch back to carrier. I hate waiting for warp cooldown.
The ability to instant warp saved my teammate's asses a bunch of times. I see somebody under fire, I warp in and draw the fire. Also, I can go back to upgrade whenever I want and come back to the battlefield without missing much.
On December 04 2010 04:59 Almania wrote: Corruptor leviathan builds work -very- well. Especially as a lot of people currently aren't aware of just how deadly corruptor's, they'll run into a group of 20 of them and die in seconds.
They are kinda imba. Just won a 2 vs 4 just by spaming corruptors.
On December 04 2010 07:00 bennmann wrote: I feel like Corrupters on Leviathan need tweaking, make them last 1/3 the time they currently do (20 seconds down from 1 minute), make their attack against massive about 33 from 100, and make the energy they cost about 1/3 (17 energy).
This will balance them by making them more micro intensive and less easy-mode-farm-kill.
Right now you can leave a fleet of Corrupters at the enemy lines to farm for you, and you receive all the Minerals from their kills while you go back to buy. This would also make that a non-issue.
only if you give them enough speed to chase... too easy to avoid them currently
I love love this game, cause it's not just a map but a game all its own. I use battle cruiser as snipe ship and it works pretty damn well. it would be awesome to get teams and team strats together though.
edit -
On December 04 2010 05:52 Chairman Ray wrote: I've been playing carrier a lot, and I think it needs a bit of reworking. There are two obvious imbalances with it - one being feedback, other being photon barrage.
as battlecruiser, if I see a lot of feedback use I start upgrading speed and weapons.. but it is still kinda imba
How come sometimes the missles just wont fire? the cooldown is done but they wont fire even if a enemy massive ship in around.
And idk i see emp more imba then feedback. 1k dmg shields and 200 energy in a aoe. In big battles alot of the time the enemy will be clumped meaning 3k dmg and 600 energy is easy to accomplish.
But best build currently imo. 4 speed upgrades then warp or 3 Then get 4 weapon upgrades. Then get your range up to 11 for your missles(throw in a speed upgrade to so your at 1.91 or you can sit at 1.81 if you want). Then upgrade your missles/number of missles then your guns.
You can out run and outrange anything. No special abilites can touch you
edit: had to remove part of the start build only works if one of ur teammates drop
On December 04 2010 09:06 Falcor wrote: cooldown time.
How come sometimes the missles just wont fire? the cooldown is done but they wont fire even if a enemy massive ship in around.
And idk i see emp more imba then feedback. 1k dmg shields and 200 energy in a aoe. In big battles alot of the time the enemy will be clumped meaning 3k dmg and 600 energy is easy to accomplish.
But best build currently imo. 4 speed upgrades then warp or 3 weapon upgrades and then wait for 5 sec to get enough cash for the 4th so you can 1 shot the small ships.
Then either get warp or 4 weapon upgrades. Then get your range up to 11 for your missles(throw in a speed upgrade to so your at 1.91 or you can sit at 1.81 if you want). Then upgrade your missles/number of missles then your guns.
You can out run and outrange anything. No special abilites can touch you
I've done some testing, missiles don't fire if you're too close I've found, but also if you've targeted someone, if you are moving (not target firing) missiles will fire.
I discovered this game like 2 days ago and I love it ... so epic! Carrier is super imba though so I always pick that one no cooldown on warp is so hax also feedback and photon barrage
personally I open with warp + 1.71 speed. Farm a bit, warp back at about 30-40 kills get no cooldown warp and 4 weapons. From there it depends what the other team gets. Speed is always important to get though, I try stay 1 speed upgrade ahead of opponents so they can never chase me down
On December 04 2010 09:06 Falcor wrote: cooldown time.
How come sometimes the missles just wont fire? the cooldown is done but they wont fire even if a enemy massive ship in around.
And idk i see emp more imba then feedback. 1k dmg shields and 200 energy in a aoe. In big battles alot of the time the enemy will be clumped meaning 3k dmg and 600 energy is easy to accomplish.
But best build currently imo. 4 speed upgrades then warp or 3 weapon upgrades and then wait for 5 sec to get enough cash for the 4th so you can 1 shot the small ships.
Then either get warp or 4 weapon upgrades. Then get your range up to 11 for your missles(throw in a speed upgrade to so your at 1.91 or you can sit at 1.81 if you want). Then upgrade your missles/number of missles then your guns.
You can out run and outrange anything. No special abilites can touch you
This is my strat, unfourtunatly my computer is a tad slow so I get killed a lot but even so this is my favorite custom map by far.
My Carrier Build involves farming and then getting fast vortex b/c that gives you insane control of the map.
Basically I get +2 Speed and +4 lasers right off the bat, and then wait for a few seconds and get warp.
After that I move out, farming, saving teammates, yaddah yaddah...
Once I got 300 min I go back to base, get vortex and any sort of core upgrades I can get b/c 150 energy isn't too easy to come by in early game.
All-in-all my BO is primarily not getting yourself into stupid situations where you can die easily, early on, and then once you get vortex you and your teammates ROFLstomping everybody in your path.
+2 Speed +4 Lasers seems to be the best starting build IMO. Leads to fast farming, still fast enough to escape and can deal decent damage up close to capitals.
I like getting warp and Barrage afterwards with Carrier (which is def imba imo). The energy recharge upgrades are also a bit too cheap maybe. A solution to mass barrage spammers is to get Feedback, but again that implies carrier imba to me.
I do +2 speed, +1 core, storm. It's an incredible opening build.
I'm not sure how it'd go down against 6 competent players, but in your average public it's fine.
As for balance, the carrier has too many good options that tend to be better than the other ships options.
Storm beats the Missile storm (forget what it's called) Barrage beats the Yamato. Feedback is better than EMP, I think? I'm not sure, nobody uses EMP... Warp beats the other ships Warps. Vortex is ridiculous.
With perhaps the exception of Vortex, none of those abilities are particularly overpowered, but when combined together the ship just ends up superior to the others. Hopefully some of those abilities can be transferred to other ships when more of them are added.
Also, I killed someone with psi storm today. So happy. :D
I've been testing out all the ships today, and feedback isn't all that bad actually. EMP is superior to feedback, but people just never use it for some reason. Yes feedback is extremely powerful, but a lot of it is because so many people use it. I still support reducing feedback to 200 energy though, and I think EMP should not take out shield anymore. It may feel natural to follow along with the ghost's EMP, but 1k damage to shield only will not change the purpose of EMP, nor will it allow people to use it as a damaging spell. It's just an annoyance. Getting an EMP on 2+ enemies is more than enough to make it a powerful spell. One note regarding the leviathan, I think they tried to make him the tank class, but it achieved the opposite effect. Armor and hp upgrades from the leviathan scale far slower than attack upgrades do, so as the game goes on, the leviathan will just be dying quicker and quicker. I think a +2 armor instead of +1 would be a decent change. The leviathan will still be dying quicker as the game goes on, but since he can live a bit longer than his teammates, it might be viable to take one for the team rather than ditch defenses and pump offense instead.
I tend to play a support battlecruiser, open 4 laser 2 speed and warp until I have enough for PDD, 4 core upgrades. This allows for some intense pushing, I then keep out until I have enough to get a 3rd speed and EMP, after this upgrade in a 1 core/1 armor/1 range pattern when you can and eventually adding the regen enhancer. The BC has a huge health pool so this works really well.
Last few games I've been going carrier fighter build.
It works surprisingly well.
One psi-storm would shut it down pretty well til you have about 14 points in your fighters - but most people don't know how to counter it yet - or they don't realise it's your interceptors doing all the damage. And then you could tech feedback.
But yeh - with 20 points in your fighters you lay waste pretty fast. 75dmg, speed 3, 20 shield armor, 20 armor, 100 shields, 100 health, * 15 interceptors. And they have a massive range, and can be launched without pausing. Very effective vs the vessels too.
I don't imagine they'd work well in arranged teams though.
I keep getting flashbacks to that episode of Haruhi Susumiya, with the space-battle computer game. And EV Nova.
And, when my team extracts a dying teammate successfully, the scene from Star Trek: First Contact where the Enterprise comes out of warp between the borg cube and the Defiant.
In a 6 player game get 4 levels of farming, 2 levels of speed, and wait until you have 50 minerals to get warp jump. Now jump to the front and you'll be able to farm massive amounts of money by skirting along the main confrontation zone. 4 Levels of farming lets you 1-shot creeps and by the first return you should have 500+ minerals.
With those you get 4 levels of reactor, feedback, and as much speed as possible. Return to the battlefield and feedback the shit out of enemy ships, all the while still farming.
Keep your distance and keep the feedback loop on opponents to make sure you can't really get ganked.
By the second shopping trip I usually get 8-10 levels of missiles, 4-5 levels of shields, shield regeneration and as many more reactor upgrades as possible.
By now you can start initiating team fights, constantly feedback and recharge your shields while providing cover for your teammates to cast spells.
On December 04 2010 16:42 Chairman Ray wrote: One note regarding the leviathan, I think they tried to make him the tank class, but it achieved the opposite effect. Armor and hp upgrades from the leviathan scale far slower than attack upgrades do, so as the game goes on, the leviathan will just be dying quicker and quicker. I think a +2 armor instead of +1 would be a decent change. The leviathan will still be dying quicker as the game goes on, but since he can live a bit longer than his teammates, it might be viable to take one for the team rather than ditch defenses and pump offense instead.
Shield armour is base 2, 3 for carrier iirc. Thats why the lev has 1 instead of 3 per upgrade, because it starts off with nearly double the health of anything else and gets more, as well as being able to heal itself. 16k health with 20 armour is pretty impressive, with 60 armour would make anything but pure ability builds useless. The main problem with the lev tanking I would say is that it has nothing to use against feedback. I'm really hoping that the bottom 2 abilities of the tab, the passive abilities for every other ship, are some sort of percentage of feedback immunity/reflection.
On December 04 2010 16:42 Chairman Ray wrote: One note regarding the leviathan, I think they tried to make him the tank class, but it achieved the opposite effect. Armor and hp upgrades from the leviathan scale far slower than attack upgrades do, so as the game goes on, the leviathan will just be dying quicker and quicker. I think a +2 armor instead of +1 would be a decent change. The leviathan will still be dying quicker as the game goes on, but since he can live a bit longer than his teammates, it might be viable to take one for the team rather than ditch defenses and pump offense instead.
Shield armour is base 2, 3 for carrier iirc. Thats why the lev has 1 instead of 3 per upgrade, because it starts off with nearly double the health of anything else and gets more, as well as being able to heal itself. 16k health with 20 armour is pretty impressive, with 60 armour would make anything but pure ability builds useless. The main problem with the lev tanking I would say is that it has nothing to use against feedback. I'm really hoping that the bottom 2 abilities of the tab, the passive abilities for every other ship, are some sort of percentage of feedback immunity/reflection.
If the Leviathan tank has more energy upgrades than the feedbacking Carrier, it will regenerate to 100 for the healing spell faster than the Carrier can use energy.
The game is very balanced around spell casting (except for Corrupters - see my 1.5 hour game earlier in the thread where I get over 2700 creep kills with them and my balance suggestion post for them), feedback is in that category.
This map is broken in the sense that either team could go all cannon and simply destroy the other team 1 by 1. I've seen it a few times already where one team isn't random and just cannons to get wins. Just a waste of time when this happens.
My issue with Feedback is that it hurts everyone tremendously. You can't really play as a siege destroyer because you're an instant target for feedback
On December 04 2010 16:42 Chairman Ray wrote: One note regarding the leviathan, I think they tried to make him the tank class, but it achieved the opposite effect. Armor and hp upgrades from the leviathan scale far slower than attack upgrades do, so as the game goes on, the leviathan will just be dying quicker and quicker. I think a +2 armor instead of +1 would be a decent change. The leviathan will still be dying quicker as the game goes on, but since he can live a bit longer than his teammates, it might be viable to take one for the team rather than ditch defenses and pump offense instead.
Shield armour is base 2, 3 for carrier iirc. Thats why the lev has 1 instead of 3 per upgrade, because it starts off with nearly double the health of anything else and gets more, as well as being able to heal itself. 16k health with 20 armour is pretty impressive, with 60 armour would make anything but pure ability builds useless. The main problem with the lev tanking I would say is that it has nothing to use against feedback. I'm really hoping that the bottom 2 abilities of the tab, the passive abilities for every other ship, are some sort of percentage of feedback immunity/reflection.
If the Leviathan tank has more energy upgrades than the feedbacking Carrier, it will regenerate to 100 for the healing spell faster than the Carrier can use energy.
The game is very balanced around spell casting (except for Corrupters - see my 1.5 hour game earlier in the thread where I get over 2700 creep kills with them and my balance suggestion post for them), feedback is in that category.
Because you totally want to wait for your energy to regen. . .If that was intentional, balance wise, then they should have base regen be much faster, gameplay wise.
On December 05 2010 07:30 MythicalMage wrote: My issue with Feedback is that it hurts everyone tremendously. You can't really play as a siege destroyer because you're an instant target for feedback
On December 04 2010 16:42 Chairman Ray wrote: One note regarding the leviathan, I think they tried to make him the tank class, but it achieved the opposite effect. Armor and hp upgrades from the leviathan scale far slower than attack upgrades do, so as the game goes on, the leviathan will just be dying quicker and quicker. I think a +2 armor instead of +1 would be a decent change. The leviathan will still be dying quicker as the game goes on, but since he can live a bit longer than his teammates, it might be viable to take one for the team rather than ditch defenses and pump offense instead.
Shield armour is base 2, 3 for carrier iirc. Thats why the lev has 1 instead of 3 per upgrade, because it starts off with nearly double the health of anything else and gets more, as well as being able to heal itself. 16k health with 20 armour is pretty impressive, with 60 armour would make anything but pure ability builds useless. The main problem with the lev tanking I would say is that it has nothing to use against feedback. I'm really hoping that the bottom 2 abilities of the tab, the passive abilities for every other ship, are some sort of percentage of feedback immunity/reflection.
If the Leviathan tank has more energy upgrades than the feedbacking Carrier, it will regenerate to 100 for the healing spell faster than the Carrier can use energy.
The game is very balanced around spell casting (except for Corrupters - see my 1.5 hour game earlier in the thread where I get over 2700 creep kills with them and my balance suggestion post for them), feedback is in that category.
Because you totally want to wait for your energy to regen. . .If that was intentional, balance wise, then they should have base regen be much faster, gameplay wise.
You can use abilities while sieged, so if you're quick enough you can keep using lockdown on any carriers which come close to you.
And yeah, feedback kind of ruins synergy with abilities, you can either have decent stats, or enough energy to cast after youve been feedbacked.
Just solo'd a 1v5 by camping my mothership while they seiged and fed me. Got +17 armor upgrade (55armor reduc) which made it impossible to kill me while being healed by base. Couldn't kill me with spells because feedback is OP with +8 reactor spamming it on any ship that got near.
On December 05 2010 07:30 MythicalMage wrote: My issue with Feedback is that it hurts everyone tremendously. You can't really play as a siege destroyer because you're an instant target for feedback
On December 05 2010 03:00 bennmann wrote:
On December 05 2010 02:08 Vandal_heart wrote:
On December 04 2010 16:42 Chairman Ray wrote: One note regarding the leviathan, I think they tried to make him the tank class, but it achieved the opposite effect. Armor and hp upgrades from the leviathan scale far slower than attack upgrades do, so as the game goes on, the leviathan will just be dying quicker and quicker. I think a +2 armor instead of +1 would be a decent change. The leviathan will still be dying quicker as the game goes on, but since he can live a bit longer than his teammates, it might be viable to take one for the team rather than ditch defenses and pump offense instead.
Shield armour is base 2, 3 for carrier iirc. Thats why the lev has 1 instead of 3 per upgrade, because it starts off with nearly double the health of anything else and gets more, as well as being able to heal itself. 16k health with 20 armour is pretty impressive, with 60 armour would make anything but pure ability builds useless. The main problem with the lev tanking I would say is that it has nothing to use against feedback. I'm really hoping that the bottom 2 abilities of the tab, the passive abilities for every other ship, are some sort of percentage of feedback immunity/reflection.
If the Leviathan tank has more energy upgrades than the feedbacking Carrier, it will regenerate to 100 for the healing spell faster than the Carrier can use energy.
The game is very balanced around spell casting (except for Corrupters - see my 1.5 hour game earlier in the thread where I get over 2700 creep kills with them and my balance suggestion post for them), feedback is in that category.
Because you totally want to wait for your energy to regen. . .If that was intentional, balance wise, then they should have base regen be much faster, gameplay wise.
You can use abilities while sieged, so if you're quick enough you can keep using lockdown on any carriers which come close to you.
And yeah, feedback kind of ruins synergy with abilities, you can either have decent stats, or enough energy to cast after youve been feedbacked.
My complaint was more that Siege mode itself costs 200 energy so unless you go for max core upgrades(or whatever they're called) it's hard to get the opportunity to siege in the first place. If siege wasn't ALWAYS priority one, then lockdown would make more sense. That severely limits the playstyle of anyone going for that strategy. (Which is most of what you can do as the destroyer.)
On December 05 2010 14:48 Zooper31 wrote: Just solo'd a 1v5 by camping my mothership while they seiged and fed me. Got +17 armor upgrade (55armor reduc) which made it impossible to kill me while being healed by base. Couldn't kill me with spells because feedback is OP with +8 reactor spamming it on any ship that got near.
I really don't understand why teams stubbornly attack the massively-upgraded solo player when that happens. The objective is to destroy the mothership, anyway, and it's clearly much easier to kill than a carrier with +17 armor, who's being healed constantly.
I even suggested it in one such game against one such Destroyer with Brobdingnagian upgrades, and my teammates continued to wail away at the opponent's ship, sometimes barely managing to bring it down to yellow health before being forced to back off and let it heal completely.
I played a couple of times where the game ended up with us like 3v1 on a guy who had huge armor ups and we couldn't take him down because he was camping at his mothership... then we discovered that all you have to do is up your range to like 10 or 11 (i can't remember the exact number) so that you outrange their mothership/CC, and then upgrade your laser. By the time the opponent has 17+ armor ups if you've been upgrading range/laser damage you can take the mothership down like it's made of wet cardboard. I also always get the BC and upgrade reactor (to ~400 energy) so whenever he starts coming out I'd toss out a nuke and he'd have to run or get ganked
On December 05 2010 14:48 Zooper31 wrote: Just solo'd a 1v5 by camping my mothership while they seiged and fed me. Got +17 armor upgrade (55armor reduc) which made it impossible to kill me while being healed by base. Couldn't kill me with spells because feedback is OP with +8 reactor spamming it on any ship that got near.
Meh, I killed tons of campers. The key is just getting the range upgrade so I can blast you outside of the mothership range (which is reduced to 7 after both prisms are destroyed). The Siegers can easily outfarm the besieged and crank up the upgrades. It doesn't matter what the camper's armor is. I outrange them, continue to feedback, keep upgrading to the point where I can spam bio-barrage non-stop.
Incredible looking map! Probably the single most cinematic SC2 mod so far. Game play felt a little slow to me, but I was just kinda staring at the screen slack-jawed for the most part. So awesome.
Along with being patient and upgrading range as suggested above, you can deal with holdouts by everyone having nuke abilities and energy upgrades. As soon as they wander out slightly they'll get hit by 12000 damage of spammable nukes, so you can just keep them bottled up. Getting greedy is the easiest way to lose in Xv1 situations.
On December 06 2010 07:21 TibblesEvilCat wrote: i'm having huge difficulties vs feedback, anyone else just getting mauled by feedback?
Yeah it's pretty annoying when they have lots of feedback. When they go for the feedback route I switch my upgrade path so I focus on range and weapons instead.
On December 06 2010 07:21 TibblesEvilCat wrote: i'm having huge difficulties vs feedback, anyone else just getting mauled by feedback?
The key is feed them back before they can feedback you. Go heavy on range upgrade and always feed back carrier first, retreat and wait for cooldown and then feedback another carrier.
The same can apply for EMP I guess. I haven't used the cruiser enough though.
On December 05 2010 01:22 Aeo wrote: I keep getting flashbacks to that episode of Haruhi Susumiya, with the space-battle computer game. And EV Nova.
And, when my team extracts a dying teammate successfully, the scene from Star Trek: First Contact where the Enterprise comes out of warp between the borg cube and the Defiant.
Good lord, I'm a nerd...
I totally thought of EV Nova too! Man I loved that game...
It's interesting that the fighter strength now ramps up. You can't farm forever off the initial +4 short range weapon upgrades now, and storm even has problems taking them down later on.
Still, just wrapped up a long game where I ended up at ~1k kills and they didn't feel all that weak.
Imo it wouldn't hurt to buff them overall - if swarms of fighters were a serious risk to your health in lategame that could make for interesting dynamics.
The strength of fighters definitely has to be buffed. In DOTA, creeps should be of some significant threat to you at least in the early game. Right now, they feel more like free money and bug stings than anything else.
Not to mention that interceptor/wraith/muta also need a buff.
I think it is really cool and it is definitely well done, but I feel it will need a lot more for it to be a really good game. Currently there are no points of interest or unique spells that require teamwork so there isn't all too much to do other than run into battle.. attack for a bit and then buy the correct upgrades. I could come up with endless suggestions but... what's the use. Either way it's a very good game as is.
this game is probably one of the best UMS maps on SC2 yet
one thing i hate though is the turn speed. previously, the carrier had a terrible turn speed that was very noticeable and rather than make it turn as easily as other ships, he gave all the other ships the terrible turn speed as well. I guess it's really a matter of personal preference, but I definitely preferred the easy-turning ships rather than the slow-turning ships
On December 06 2010 09:53 GGTeMpLaR wrote: this game is probably one of the best UMS maps on SC2 yet
one thing i hate though is the turn speed. previously, the carrier had a terrible turn speed that was very noticeable and rather than make it turn as easily as other ships, he gave all the other ships the terrible turn speed as well. I guess it's really a matter of personal preference, but I definitely preferred the easy-turning ships rather than the slow-turning ships
Try hitting stop to slow down a little, then turning. Kinda like brakes on a car, except in space..
Anyways i use a BC and i just go for straight laser upgrades, speed upgrades till 1.91 speed, and then range and armor ups. Its a lot easier to kill people who go for missile upgrades as long as you can close on them, since they have a min range :D
I love the Destroyer. I used it with the burst cannon attack and the aoe cannons for a combo were you hit him with the normal ones then you quickly use the aoe one when the single target is on cd, it is constant burst. Plus Destroyers can hard counter the plasma-cannoners with that long charge up using lockdown. I shut down 2 of them at the same time with it. One ragequit. And the carrier with support like vortex and psy storm will rack up a ton of minerals if you use it in front of the enemies spawn. I wish blizz would make this a league game, I would be diamond.
On December 06 2010 09:53 GGTeMpLaR wrote: this game is probably one of the best UMS maps on SC2 yet
one thing i hate though is the turn speed. previously, the carrier had a terrible turn speed that was very noticeable and rather than make it turn as easily as other ships, he gave all the other ships the terrible turn speed as well. I guess it's really a matter of personal preference, but I definitely preferred the easy-turning ships rather than the slow-turning ships
Try hitting stop to slow down a little, then turning. Kinda like brakes on a car, except in space..
Anyways i use a BC and i just go for straight laser upgrades, speed upgrades till 1.91 speed, and then range and armor ups. Its a lot easier to kill people who go for missile upgrades as long as you can close on them, since they have a min range :D
I stopped using the plasma cannon carrier build after playing around with feedback. Plasma cannon is really good at ganking people that are being way too greedy and going off into the middle of nowhere on their own early on in the game but when you start playing against teams that don't have idiot cowboys then that early game initiative doesn't really seem to be that important. Once you get past that first launch in the early game you'll generally be able to get feedback on the second run and by then you can really make cannon carriers useless. Feedback is extremely powerful anyway; I'd easily say that it's better than the cannon.
Overall i think the game is realllllllly slow paced and it needs alot of tweaking to be a good game, also i see nothing impressive in terms of oh SHI- that person just out microed that person like crazy, which is what everyone loves to see. It's a fun game when your bored but it gets boring very fast. Also its just a click fest there is no micro everythings to slow to micro.
1) Make the map larger. Should be easy considering there is no terrain (a fact which I like). Add more warp prisms/science vessels, or alternatively have other strategic points on the map which players should defend/attack. At the moment it really makes no difference where the battle lines are, since there's nothing of interest on the map. Having a whole bunch of asteroids on which you build mining outposts would be one way to do this. You could even add a ship dimension of having troops on board, which are used to capture these outposts, and upgrading your troops will increase the speed at which they capture outposts, and make it take longer for the enemy to take them back. Being able to send a troop transport to try and board an enemy ship would also be pretty intense. While actually capturing the ship would be stupid, you could go mess with their systems, such as a successful boarding temporarily taking out the enemy engines, reactor, shields, ability systems, or whatever temporarily.
2) Add more "area control" to the gameplay. Incentivize controlling greater areas of the map (ie mining asteroids) and provide a means to do so, such as deployable turrets or patrolling units. Building bases which garrison fighters in them which leave whenever an attackable unit approaches would be good. These bases could even repair fighters that they garrison and be defended with deployable turrets.
3) I like the gameplay style of players not respawning, but it does make the game a race to kill someone first, after which the game is over. Some sort of respawn is necessary. I think the correct way to implement this is have very expensive space docks be constructed/captured at specific points on the map. A dock builds a capital ship very slowly. When a player dies they must wait for the space dock to finish building a ship before they can respawn. If multiple players die, the one who died first gets the next ship off the dock, and the one who died second has to wait for the ship after that. Although a side could build multiple docks. Also, if nobody dies, the available "lives" gradually build up.
4) Expand on the idea of the capital ship as a carrier. There is currently only one upgrade for interceptor/wraiths, although they're both acting as interceptors... This is a whole new dimension of play that is really quite an awesome idea. Have upgrades for interceptor/wraith damage, armor, speed, range, capacity, etc. Also, give these interceptors a different "bomber" attack that they use against capital ships which can be upgraded separately. And I think the ship actually named the "carrier" should have abilities that increase the effectiveness of its interceptors, and have its craft be its strongest arm for all purposes.
5) There are some movement exploits, such as instantly turning around by clicking directly behind you, and how clicking really really fast can increase your turning speed. Please fix this.
Hey guys, thought some of you might be interested in this little amateur video I made for the purpose of filling the movement strategy on star battle wiki.
I like the fact that you can't target your weapons. It opens up for a lot of strategy. You can tank by positioning yourself between your fleeing friend and the enemy etc. Since you can't aim your weapons, movement and positioning becomes more important. I hope it stays in the game in the future.
I just did an interceptor carrier build, and holy crap, it is amazing. I did mostly interceptor upgrades, but then started getting reactor and spells (mostly feedback and recharge shield). But 15 interceptors means your interceptor upgrades are extremely efficient in terms of dps.
On December 06 2010 23:57 DiracMonopole wrote: I just did an interceptor carrier build, and holy crap, it is amazing. I did mostly interceptor upgrades, but then started getting reactor and spells (mostly feedback and recharge shield). But 15 interceptors means your interceptor upgrades are extremely efficient in terms of dps.
Does it work if opponents have high close range upgrades and/or AoE spells? The dps has to be a lot better than other builds to be worth it since they get lots of minerals from fighting you if you lose interceptors.
On December 06 2010 21:00 hoper7 wrote: Hey guys, thought some of you might be interested in this little amateur video I made for the purpose of filling the movement strategy on star battle wiki.
I have been really enjoying this game mode. Only thing I dont like is the exp system. One person can just grind up their stats but not help the team. I think all exp should be pooled between the team so that everyone has the same, this way someone who is off on their own killing planes isnt a selfish little ********
On December 07 2010 05:08 pompey606 wrote: I have been really enjoying this game mode. Only thing I dont like is the exp system. One person can just grind up their stats but not help the team. I think all exp should be pooled between the team so that everyone has the same, this way someone who is off on their own killing planes isnt a selfish little ********
That's sorta how DotA is though. One player is expected to farm up and carry the team through late game.
On December 07 2010 05:08 pompey606 wrote: I have been really enjoying this game mode. Only thing I dont like is the exp system. One person can just grind up their stats but not help the team. I think all exp should be pooled between the team so that everyone has the same, this way someone who is off on their own killing planes isnt a selfish little ********
That's sorta how DotA is though. One player is expected to farm up and carry the team through late game.
Yeah. When I farm, I'm playing for the late game (which is more interesting than having a few idiots run off and die in the early game and ending things early). If someone gets into trouble I'm the first to warp in to back them up - I've died a few too many times doing that only to be abandoned by the rest of the team.
so go and farm also... if noone farms and just attack eachother uselessly you end up with 1 hour+ games cuz it takes forever and a decade to get enough upgrades to kill someone short of them being stupid, or forgetting to upgrade ship speed.
but in non noob filled games you need atleast some of your guys to farm early and get fast ups.
The farmers better know how to do so safely, however. The idiots who camp in front of the enemy base and get inevitably picked off are just a waste of space.
If you've ever played Battleships on Warcraft 3, I think you should make some modifications that are simular to that.. because it has some good ideas that could really add more strategy to your game, also possibly upgrading ships style... where if you die, you get degraded back to a shitty ship. but you can buy yourself better ships.
Thats all I have to say, Otherwise this is a great game, and keep it up.
On December 07 2010 06:20 Ryalnos wrote The farmers better know how to do so safely, however. The idiots who camp in front of the enemy base and get inevitably picked off are just a waste of space.
Haha gotta agree, also gotta hate it when some noobs overcommit into chasing down a low health enemy, and end up being killed after they walk straight into the enemy base without even killing the enemy.
On December 07 2010 06:20 Ryalnos wrote The farmers better know how to do so safely, however. The idiots who camp in front of the enemy base and get inevitably picked off are just a waste of space.
Haha gotta agree, also gotta hate it when some noobs overcommit into chasing down a low health enemy, and end up being killed after they walk straight into the enemy base without even killing the enemy.
OH MAN.. i want to play this so much but i can never find it in the Asian/Australian servers. and i cant find the file to upload it or something, i really want to play this game.
On December 07 2010 11:24 Fir3fly wrote: OH MAN.. i want to play this so much but i can never find it in the Asian/Australian servers. and i cant find the file to upload it or something, i really want to play this game.
Play on US, that what I do at least, ladder on SEA and customs on US since it has all the good custom games (and people that play them)
On December 07 2010 08:58 DiracMonopole wrote: How many reactor upgrades does it take to maintain cloak indefinitely?
Good question lol. Probably takes forever?
Probably far too many for it to pay off.
A single Battlecruiser with a semi-intelligent captain will EMP you, leaving you wide open for the Carriers and Destroyers to keep your energy on zero.
how exactly do these interceptors take off and what do they attack? sometimes i saw ppl shooting them off while moving, but i couldnt reproduce that, tried the typical stop and go with hold posisition and attack-move. didnt work.
and further: are the interceptors actually viable? like upgrading them or even getting thisupgrade for the carrier. too me they feel to random to do efficient dmg
On December 08 2010 01:07 Lucius2 wrote: how exactly do these interceptors take off and what do they attack? sometimes i saw ppl shooting them off while moving, but i couldnt reproduce that, tried the typical stop and go with hold posisition and attack-move. didnt work.
and further: are the interceptors actually viable? like upgrading them or even getting thisupgrade for the carrier. too me they feel to random to do efficient dmg
any advice?
they shoot off via attack command, doesn't work when moving, does work when drifting (you can stop attack move, stop attack move and fire them off) but all they do basically is give your opponent free money killing them 99.9999% of the time
also no more 4 ups for tentacles (closerange weap) for easy farming the whole game long, gotta keep upgrading them for 1 hit creep kills
The record reset is kinda funny. Apparently I have been demoted to a recruit with zero game played after becoming a Captain.
There are players out there with like 8 games, 24 wins or something like that.
Just today, we tried to make a 3v3 game. The result is that all 6 players ended up on the same team, with no opposing team. Although the game ended after we killed the undefended mothership, my record shows 1 game, 0 win.
Does this game have an own forum? I mean the way it is Rockets pay never off, since you attack once every 4 seconds and unless you have leviathan lasers are just 1 range shorter. Also lasers are a must for frenzy leviathan or siege destroyer, since the damage is dependent on laser ups too.
There is actually a lot of things a bit wrong to be competitive as a game. Destroyer 1000 points emergency shield with 3 minute cooldown which you cannot see is clearly the weakest ship in terms of selfhealing. And since you can´t teleport when you are in the red, the destroyer is the only one who will bleed to death.
I like this game, so awesome, it's simple dota but still extremely fun and the die and never come back is actually something I like, makes the games more intense.
Dunno if he'll read this but feedback is the best spell, combine that with high mana regen and storm and your enemy can't ever get energy. Even if they increase their mana regen, they can just feedback you even more! I don't agree with that spell in this game, doesn't seem fair.
On December 08 2010 08:13 Mataza wrote: Does this game have an own forum? I mean the way it is Rockets pay never off, since you attack once every 4 seconds and unless you have leviathan lasers are just 1 range shorter. Also lasers are a must for frenzy leviathan or siege destroyer, since the damage is dependent on laser ups too.
There is actually a lot of things a bit wrong to be competitive as a game. Destroyer 1000 points emergency shield with 3 minute cooldown which you cannot see is clearly the weakest ship in terms of selfhealing. And since you can´t teleport when you are in the red, the destroyer is the only one who will bleed to death.
uhm, the long range weapons you can upgrade range and for levi, also upgrade the number of projectiles... very powerful just requires more ups then going tentacles. But with 12+ range or so people cannot run from you.
On December 08 2010 08:46 emc wrote: I like this game, so awesome, it's simple dota but still extremely fun and the die and never come back is actually something I like, makes the games more intense.
Dunno if he'll read this but feedback is the best spell, combine that with high mana regen and storm and your enemy can't ever get energy. Even if they increase their mana regen, they can just feedback you even more! I don't agree with that spell in this game, doesn't seem fair.
QFT
Feedback breaks every other ships abilities because they become completely useless. Getting reactor upgrades just hurts you even more because you go into battle, full energy, feedback, and you're down to almost no shields and you have no energy.
Next time I'm not even going to bother getting any abilities or reactor and just go with basic weapon/armour/shield ups because after playing against good feedback users there's no point at all in getting special abilities.
On December 08 2010 08:13 Mataza wrote: Does this game have an own forum? I mean the way it is Rockets pay never off, since you attack once every 4 seconds and unless you have leviathan lasers are just 1 range shorter. Also lasers are a must for frenzy leviathan or siege destroyer, since the damage is dependent on laser ups too.
There is actually a lot of things a bit wrong to be competitive as a game. Destroyer 1000 points emergency shield with 3 minute cooldown which you cannot see is clearly the weakest ship in terms of selfhealing. And since you can´t teleport when you are in the red, the destroyer is the only one who will bleed to death.
uhm, the long range weapons you can upgrade range and for levi, also upgrade the number of projectiles... very powerful just requires more ups then going tentacles. But with 12+ range or so people cannot run from you.
Yeah and range applies to laser too, so what´s the point of bringing up 12+ range? And missiles may be very powerful. But then you´d have to admit that lasers are actually more powerful than that.
Okay, lasers increase in a linear rate, while missiles increase in an exponential rate. Therefore in the early-mid game, laser upgrades will yield higher dps, but in the late game, missiles will have higher dps. Additionally, lasers will fire at anything while missiles will only fire at players and towers. That makes lasers next to useless when fighting near the enemy's base.
On December 08 2010 12:22 Chairman Ray wrote: Okay, lasers increase in a linear rate, while missiles increase in an exponential rate. Therefore in the early-mid game, laser upgrades will yield higher dps, but in the late game, missiles will have higher dps. Additionally, lasers will fire at anything while missiles will only fire at players and towers. That makes lasers next to useless when fighting near the enemy's base.
Of course, get enough speed with your lazor specialty and you nullify rokkits :D
On December 08 2010 12:22 Chairman Ray wrote: Okay, lasers increase in a linear rate, while missiles increase in an exponential rate. Therefore in the early-mid game, laser upgrades will yield higher dps, but in the late game, missiles will have higher dps. Additionally, lasers will fire at anything while missiles will only fire at players and towers. That makes lasers next to useless when fighting near the enemy's base.
Of course, get enough speed with your lazor specialty and you nullify rokkits :D
Massing armor upgrades is also far less useful against rockets than against lasers.
I'm still a fan of missiles over lasers because their damage scales so much better (their damage upgrades give 2 more damage per buy than lasers, and you can increase the number of missiles/volley). Except the new patch requires you to constantly pump into lasers in order to keep farming creeps efficiently.
I don't understand, why do the ships move so slowly? It doesn't make it any more fun... and it could probably be that much more fun if ship speed was increased from snail speed to turtle speed at LEAST!
I don't recommend it to anyone unless you're over the age of 85 or like playing lawn bowls.
On December 08 2010 16:29 andrewwiggin wrote: Tried this game.
It was so tragically BORING.
I don't understand, why do the ships move so slowly? It doesn't make it any more fun... and it could probably be that much more fun if ship speed was increased from snail speed to turtle speed at LEAST!
I don't recommend it to anyone unless you're over the age of 85 or like playing lawn bowls.
On December 08 2010 16:29 andrewwiggin wrote: Tried this game.
It was so tragically BORING.
I don't understand, why do the ships move so slowly? It doesn't make it any more fun... and it could probably be that much more fun if ship speed was increased from snail speed to turtle speed at LEAST!
I don't recommend it to anyone unless you're over the age of 85 or like playing lawn bowls.
There are movement upgrades that you can buy, and an ability that allows you to teleport. But, in the early game, the ships do move somewhat slowly.
On December 08 2010 16:29 andrewwiggin wrote: Tried this game.
It was so tragically BORING.
I don't understand, why do the ships move so slowly? It doesn't make it any more fun... and it could probably be that much more fun if ship speed was increased from snail speed to turtle speed at LEAST!
I don't recommend it to anyone unless you're over the age of 85 or like playing lawn bowls.
Of course it'd be too boring to Ender.
Get back in the Battle Room, Andrew Wiggin! Petra Arkanian, Phoenix Army, 0400
So the thing is, later on missiles > lasers because of armour upgrades, you get people with like 15+ plating which is around 40 armour, and ur lasers do almost nothing, missiles on the other hand (assuming uve been upgrading them) only have their damage cut in half, still a lot but better than almost 100%
Just tried an interceptor build, worked pretty well, once those things get upgraded they dont die easy! I think mine were level 20ish, this also lets you sink all of your other cash straight into armour plating instead of spreading it around other upgrades. 15 interceptors vs 1 ship at that level is almost guaranteed death since they have so much armour and HP lasers take a year and a half to kill them, they also keep attack ur target even if you warp away which is very nice. I scored a few kill on ships I forgot I was even attacking, interceptors finished them off literally 2-3 minutes later, was epic.
Good idea with this build (or any relaly now that I thin kabout it? is to get feedback to stop them storimg or missile barraging ur interceptors, other than that it looks really solid, allows for much more concentrated expenditure of resources.
If only there was an easier way to launch interceptors so that they could farm that little ships better, but at least they attack capital ships and buildings on command so its not too bad.
teamwork in this game is completely imbalanced. yesterday i got a few friends together, and then we just started adding people who were good form the games we just played, eventually it got up to 5 people in a party. Holy Check did we rape. we went 13-1 with the one loss because 2 of us dropped out and some guy surprised us with 20/20 mutas.
Get a party together. Pubstomp. By the end we were just shit talking most of the game, telling the other team the order we'd kill them in, ect.
Also, I think Feedback just needs to have a longer cooldown, with a higher mana cost, it just seems that one carrier can feedback 3 people in a fight with cheap energy upgrades, and half a team without energy is rape.
On December 08 2010 08:13 Mataza wrote: Does this game have an own forum? I mean the way it is Rockets pay never off, since you attack once every 4 seconds and unless you have leviathan lasers are just 1 range shorter. Also lasers are a must for frenzy leviathan or siege destroyer, since the damage is dependent on laser ups too.
There is actually a lot of things a bit wrong to be competitive as a game. Destroyer 1000 points emergency shield with 3 minute cooldown which you cannot see is clearly the weakest ship in terms of selfhealing. And since you can´t teleport when you are in the red, the destroyer is the only one who will bleed to death.
uhm, the long range weapons you can upgrade range and for levi, also upgrade the number of projectiles... very powerful just requires more ups then going tentacles. But with 12+ range or so people cannot run from you.
Yeah and range applies to laser too, so what´s the point of bringing up 12+ range? And missiles may be very powerful. But then you´d have to admit that lasers are actually more powerful than that.
Interesting.. usually play levi and the range upgrade effects bile swarm ("rockets") and specials, and tentacles range is static.
and the thing about rockets is you upgrade number of projectiles as well as damage per projectile. So while tentacles starts out doing a lot more damage, bile swarm does huge chunks of damage (doing 110/swarm times 8 swarms at 13 range, people cannot run out of the range unless they run once they see you at the edge of their screen). tentacles is great but easy to run away from and unless you get 20+ in tentacle damage and frenzy or corruption, its tough to take out people who aren't stupid enough to stop and try to launch interceptors while you melee them down.
i've been trying out this carrier build that i really like; it goes 4 lasers 2 speed + warp warp to farthest out dude at 500 min get feedback and equal energy + armor upgrades (+1speed if they have good snipers) if opponents have feedback, continue getting those upgrades indefinitely until your side clearly wins feedback war if they don't, then get +5 interceptor capacity upgrade and start upging interceptors (also slowly get more energy, armor, warp technology, and the healing spell) use interceptors to farm outside of opponent's towers, they get insanely powerful once you get enough ups for them win
note: u cant really gank with this build its based upon just farming way faster than most other builds (its kind of on par with a tankspeed leviathan)
I've been trying out a tank-farm Leviathan in games with Tuna. 4 tentacle 2 speed + warp warp out farm until you can go back and buy mutation and rapid regeneration at once. get up to around 55 min in energy upgrades and work tentacle up to 46 (if there are multiple carriers get more energy upgrades) get speed to level 200 get armor to match small ship damage up range until your capital ship attack can outrange the towers and slowly farm around them while killing the tower. up capital ship attack and armor until end of game. Never go back to base and never fall below green hp.
AnnYeong, its so much fun though :D I'm just waiting for the tournament and hoping that I'll be able to round up a 6man team.
Missiles:Normal Attack You start out with 5 missiles, 4 second (in-game) cooldown, 50 damage and 7 range. Lasers/tentacles- .24 second cooldown, 10 damage and 6 range.
Now, the range upgrades affect both equally, so we're going to ignore them for the sake of this post.
not upgraded- 1 volley of missiles=[5*50(5 missiles, each dealing 50 damage)]/4=62.5dps
lasers= .24 seconds=10 damage -> multiply both sides by 10^2 which gives 24 seconds = 1000 damage -> divide both sides by 24 getting dps, giving us 1000/24 = 41+2/3dps
right from the start, we can see that the missiles actually deal more damage than the lasers. The difference is that missiles can't be used to farm. You'll also notice that all of the ships bar the leviathan gain armor in increments of 3, directly neutralizing laser upgrades if taken in response to people spamming laser upgrades. The useful thing about lasers is the fact that they hit fast, and they don't glitch out when you don't move like missiles sometimes do. They are also good for farming, which is fairly helpful since you start out with them anyways.
A build I've been using and seeing used against me more often is storm/other farming ability, 2 speed upgrades and 1 energy upgrade. From there you upgrade energy to accommodate the storms you'll be throwing down, and then just focus on the missiles. When building missiles, take into account the cost per extra missile and the cost to upgrade your missiles. For maximum cost to damage efficiency, follow this build: +1 missile +4dmg +1 missile +6dmg +1missile +9dmg +1missile
Of coarse get range, movement speed, health/shields/armor and whatever else you want to incorporate into your ship.
On December 09 2010 01:51 flyinfart wrote: Missiles:Normal Attack You start out with 5 missiles, 4 second (in-game) cooldown, 50 damage and 7 range. Lasers/tentacles- .24 second cooldown, 10 damage and 6 range.
Now, the range upgrades affect both equally, so we're going to ignore them for the sake of this post.
range upgrade doesn't effect the tentacles for leviathan. It effects bile swarm and special ability range (instead of tentacles) so you cannot ignore the range in regards to levi. Carrier--- yeah doesn't matter for carrier.
Well, seeing as the point of that post was to argue that missiles are better than the standard attack, I don't really see anything constructive in what you said, baconbits. The standard attack upgrades cost the same and target things that get in the way of killing enemy capitol ships. Its common knowledge that the range upgrade doesn't affect the leviathan's tentacles, and the fact was even posted earlier in this thread (I think by you?).
Anyways, a moment of sleep deprived clarity came over me, and I decided to run both cost to damage effectiveness: The missiles are a bit challenging since there are two modifiers. Using the build order I posted, the first +missile gives +50damage, so it grants +12.5dps. The first 4 +dmg upgrades grant +30damage, giving you +7.5dps each. The second +missile gives +70damage, which is +17.5dps. The next 6 +dmg give +8.75dps each. 3rd +missile gives 100dmg, meaning +25dps. Each subsequent +dmg grants 10dps, and that last missile is worth 47.5dps. All together, that is 337.5dps; at about 6.77 minerals per 1dps. Fortunately, games don't usually last that long, and generally end between attack upgrade 12 and 16. So the cost per 1dps at +dmg of 12 is 5.23 minerals. The cost slowly increases over time (from 12-19, it rises about 1.54 minerals per 1dps)
Each laser upgrade gives (0.24*10^2=3*10^2)/24=12.5dps. Which is insane, when you compare it to what is above. Unfortunately, its low damage, high rate of fire. Ships have a base armor of 3, meaning the base damage is only really 7, at 29.17dps. Each upgrade to its damage is directly countered by an upgrade to enemy armor at the same price- however your one ship busting out 20 laser upgrades will cost the enemies a fortune to counter you, leaving your team free to go for stats that build stronger in the end.
It should also be noted that 9 levels into 'lasers', you surpass missiles for dps by 1.67dps IF the opponent doesn't purchase any armor. But even 600 minerals into lasers- at 625 minerals into missiles you're only 4.17dps behind, and are able to ignore the majority of your opponents' armor.
::NOTE:: I would love if somebody else would check my math. Message me if you're interested in breaking the game apart some more
On December 09 2010 04:49 flyinfart wrote: Well, seeing as the point of that post was to argue that missiles are better than the standard attack, I don't really see anything constructive in what you said, baconbits. The standard attack upgrades cost the same and target things that get in the way of killing enemy capitol ships. Its common knowledge that the range upgrade doesn't affect the leviathan's tentacles, and the fact was even posted earlier in this thread (I think by you?).
Anyways, a moment of sleep deprived clarity came over me, and I decided to run both cost to damage effectiveness: The missiles are a bit challenging since there are two modifiers. Using the build order I posted, the first +missile gives +50damage, so it grants +12.5dps. The first 4 +dmg upgrades grant +30damage, giving you +7.5dps each. The second +missile gives +70damage, which is +17.5dps. The next 6 +dmg give +8.75dps each. 3rd +missile gives 100dmg, meaning +25dps. Each subsequent +dmg grants 10dps, and that last missile is worth 47.5dps. All together, that is 337.5dps; at about 6.77 minerals per 1dps. Fortunately, games don't usually last that long, and generally end between attack upgrade 12 and 16. So the cost per 1dps at +dmg of 12 is 5.23 minerals. The cost slowly increases over time (from 12-19, it rises about 1.54 minerals per 1dps)
Each laser upgrade gives (0.24*10^2=3*10^2)/24=12.5dps. Which is insane, when you compare it to what is above. Unfortunately, its low damage, high rate of fire. Ships have a base armor of 3, meaning the base damage is only really 7, at 29.17dps. Each upgrade to its damage is directly countered by an upgrade to enemy armor at the same price- however your one ship busting out 20 laser upgrades will cost the enemies a fortune to counter you, leaving your team free to go for stats that build stronger in the end.
It should also be noted that 9 levels into 'lasers', you surpass missiles for dps by 1.67dps IF the opponent doesn't purchase any armor. But even 600 minerals into lasers- at 625 minerals into missiles you're only 4.17dps behind, and are able to ignore the majority of your opponents' armor.
::NOTE:: I would love if somebody else would check my math. Message me if you're interested in breaking the game apart some more
::EDIT:: fixed some information
Interesting. But the fact still lies in that laser also hits creeps. If you do a massive 60+ laser attack, then most of the dps get wasted on creeps....
On December 08 2010 20:52 annYeong(o11) wrote: teamwork in this game is completely imbalanced. yesterday i got a few friends together, and then we just started adding people who were good form the games we just played, eventually it got up to 5 people in a party. Holy Check did we rape. we went 13-1 with the one loss because 2 of us dropped out and some guy surprised us with 20/20 mutas.
In my opinion, that's the mark of a good game. I do the same thing with my friends—and the most annoying enemies from each game—and it's way more satisfying to have a team working together.
@flyinfart: Thanks very much for the analysis. I generally play Destroyer, so every laser upgrade also increases my late-game DPS when I get siege. The damage against another capital ship should be 250 DPS +10(a weapon speed of 3sec makes this blessedly easy)for each laser upgrade. If the game were to end, as you said, around the twelfth laser upgrade, you'd end up with 370DPS in siege mode(low fire rate, high damage, vis-à-vis armor), at comparable range to missile attacks, and the fighters' upgrades don't get in the way of farming effectively.
I believe lasers are better than missles but can't post today; I have a difficult final tomorrow I need to study for. I look at dps too, so I think it will be a good comparison. I'll post a detailed analysis like yours either tomorrow or Friday.
On December 09 2010 04:49 flyinfart wrote: Well, seeing as the point of that post was to argue that missiles are better than the standard attack, I don't really see anything constructive in what you said, baconbits. The standard attack upgrades cost the same and target things that get in the way of killing enemy capitol ships. Its common knowledge that the range upgrade doesn't affect the leviathan's tentacles, and the fact was even posted earlier in this thread (I think by you?).
Anyways, a moment of sleep deprived clarity came over me, and I decided to run both cost to damage effectiveness: The missiles are a bit challenging since there are two modifiers. Using the build order I posted, the first +missile gives +50damage, so it grants +12.5dps. The first 4 +dmg upgrades grant +30damage, giving you +7.5dps each. The second +missile gives +70damage, which is +17.5dps. The next 6 +dmg give +8.75dps each. 3rd +missile gives 100dmg, meaning +25dps. Each subsequent +dmg grants 10dps, and that last missile is worth 47.5dps. All together, that is 337.5dps; at about 6.77 minerals per 1dps. Fortunately, games don't usually last that long, and generally end between attack upgrade 12 and 16. So the cost per 1dps at +dmg of 12 is 5.23 minerals. The cost slowly increases over time (from 12-19, it rises about 1.54 minerals per 1dps)
Each laser upgrade gives (0.24*10^2=3*10^2)/24=12.5dps. Which is insane, when you compare it to what is above. Unfortunately, its low damage, high rate of fire. Ships have a base armor of 3, meaning the base damage is only really 7, at 29.17dps. Each upgrade to its damage is directly countered by an upgrade to enemy armor at the same price- however your one ship busting out 20 laser upgrades will cost the enemies a fortune to counter you, leaving your team free to go for stats that build stronger in the end.
It should also be noted that 9 levels into 'lasers', you surpass missiles for dps by 1.67dps IF the opponent doesn't purchase any armor. But even 600 minerals into lasers- at 625 minerals into missiles you're only 4.17dps behind, and are able to ignore the majority of your opponents' armor.
::NOTE:: I would love if somebody else would check my math. Message me if you're interested in breaking the game apart some more
::EDIT:: fixed some information
This is all great, except 2 factors:
1) Lasers are excellent against creep. Missiles can't even be used vs creep. With upgraded lasers you'll always be 1-shotting creep all game, meaning faster farming, more money, and more upgrades.
2) Lasers are player-targetable while missiles aren't You can be chasing some ship near-red with missiles, but as soon as another enemy warps in your missiles will arbitrarily switch targets and you can't do anything about it. With lasers you can actually target and chase down low-health ships to make kills.
Long story short, not all enemies upgrade armor all that much, so high lasers will give you comparable DPS to missiles and versatility in creeping and targeting.
@aeo, I've never quite gotten the hang of the destroyer, but thank you. Thats very good to know! The destroyer definitely has a different play style than the other ships, then.
On December 09 2010 09:34 Arete wrote: Hey fly,
I believe lasers are better than missles but can't post today; I have a difficult final tomorrow I need to study for. I look at dps too, so I think it will be a good comparison. I'll post a detailed analysis like yours either tomorrow or Friday.
I'd love to see your math, since I've just pounded out the numbers and the lasers are only slightly better (level 9 and above), and directly countered by armor upgrades. Also, the lasers max out faster, so if you do make it to the late game, the missiles should actually catch up and pass them (though I haven't calculated this out yet, since I've never actually reached this point).
On December 09 2010 04:49 flyinfart wrote: Well, seeing as the point of that post was to argue that missiles are better than the standard attack, I don't really see anything constructive in what you said, baconbits. The standard attack upgrades cost the same and target things that get in the way of killing enemy capitol ships. Its common knowledge that the range upgrade doesn't affect the leviathan's tentacles, and the fact was even posted earlier in this thread (I think by you?).
Anyways, a moment of sleep deprived clarity came over me, and I decided to run both cost to damage effectiveness: The missiles are a bit challenging since there are two modifiers. Using the build order I posted, the first +missile gives +50damage, so it grants +12.5dps. The first 4 +dmg upgrades grant +30damage, giving you +7.5dps each. The second +missile gives +70damage, which is +17.5dps. The next 6 +dmg give +8.75dps each. 3rd +missile gives 100dmg, meaning +25dps. Each subsequent +dmg grants 10dps, and that last missile is worth 47.5dps. All together, that is 337.5dps; at about 6.77 minerals per 1dps. Fortunately, games don't usually last that long, and generally end between attack upgrade 12 and 16. So the cost per 1dps at +dmg of 12 is 5.23 minerals. The cost slowly increases over time (from 12-19, it rises about 1.54 minerals per 1dps)
Each laser upgrade gives (0.24*10^2=3*10^2)/24=12.5dps. Which is insane, when you compare it to what is above. Unfortunately, its low damage, high rate of fire. Ships have a base armor of 3, meaning the base damage is only really 7, at 29.17dps. Each upgrade to its damage is directly countered by an upgrade to enemy armor at the same price- however your one ship busting out 20 laser upgrades will cost the enemies a fortune to counter you, leaving your team free to go for stats that build stronger in the end.
It should also be noted that 9 levels into 'lasers', you surpass missiles for dps by 1.67dps IF the opponent doesn't purchase any armor. But even 600 minerals into lasers- at 625 minerals into missiles you're only 4.17dps behind, and are able to ignore the majority of your opponents' armor.
::NOTE:: I would love if somebody else would check my math. Message me if you're interested in breaking the game apart some more
::EDIT:: fixed some information
This is all great, except 2 factors:
1) Lasers are excellent against creep. Missiles can't even be used vs creep. With upgraded lasers you'll always be 1-shotting creep all game, meaning faster farming, more money, and more upgrades.
2) Lasers are player-targetable while missiles aren't You can be chasing some ship near-red with missiles, but as soon as another enemy warps in your missiles will arbitrarily switch targets and you can't do anything about it. With lasers you can actually target and chase down low-health ships to make kills.
Long story short, not all enemies upgrade armor all that much, so high lasers will give you comparable DPS to missiles and versatility in creeping and targeting.
1) a) my point is that lasers do target creeps, and missiles don't. A smart opponent will engage your ship over a wave of creeps and send out their fighters. This gives you extra money, but all the money in the world wont help a dead man. Of coarse, how often do you face teams that are intelligent enough to do this? b) something else to take note of is the farming strength of abilities like psionic storm and caustic slime. The comparative value of the two methods of farming is nigh impossible to make beyond in game experience. I personally prefer psionic storm over lasers, and can generally out farm laser builds unless the opponent has gone feedback and is being an annoying bitch (which needs some nerfing imo, its too easy to disable an entire team with it; but thats a different conversation) or you're being targeted for first blood. Thats up to the player though, because mathematically there is no way to calculate play style, strategy and counter strategy into the equation. 2) I've never found lasers to be player-targetable, but thats interesting. I'm going to have to experiment with that because it seems too good to be true. It always feels like you can deny enemy laser farming by getting close to them, while storm farming is only countered by killing your own creeps with spells or feedback/emp which is getting to be more and more common knowledge.
So yes, I agree that lasers can dominate quite effectively, in pub games. But competitively, which is going to be more effective? The missiles deal more damage initially, are harder to directly counter, have slightly better range, and I think max out with more damage.
Can anybody confirm that weapons max out at a certain level?
On December 09 2010 04:49 flyinfart wrote: Well, seeing as the point of that post was to argue that missiles are better than the standard attack, I don't really see anything constructive in what you said, baconbits. The standard attack upgrades cost the same and target things that get in the way of killing enemy capitol ships. Its common knowledge that the range upgrade doesn't affect the leviathan's tentacles, and the fact was even posted earlier in this thread (I think by you?).
Anyways, a moment of sleep deprived clarity came over me, and I decided to run both cost to damage effectiveness: The missiles are a bit challenging since there are two modifiers. Using the build order I posted, the first +missile gives +50damage, so it grants +12.5dps. The first 4 +dmg upgrades grant +30damage, giving you +7.5dps each. The second +missile gives +70damage, which is +17.5dps. The next 6 +dmg give +8.75dps each. 3rd +missile gives 100dmg, meaning +25dps. Each subsequent +dmg grants 10dps, and that last missile is worth 47.5dps. All together, that is 337.5dps; at about 6.77 minerals per 1dps. Fortunately, games don't usually last that long, and generally end between attack upgrade 12 and 16. So the cost per 1dps at +dmg of 12 is 5.23 minerals. The cost slowly increases over time (from 12-19, it rises about 1.54 minerals per 1dps)
Each laser upgrade gives (0.24*10^2=3*10^2)/24=12.5dps. Which is insane, when you compare it to what is above. Unfortunately, its low damage, high rate of fire. Ships have a base armor of 3, meaning the base damage is only really 7, at 29.17dps. Each upgrade to its damage is directly countered by an upgrade to enemy armor at the same price- however your one ship busting out 20 laser upgrades will cost the enemies a fortune to counter you, leaving your team free to go for stats that build stronger in the end.
It should also be noted that 9 levels into 'lasers', you surpass missiles for dps by 1.67dps IF the opponent doesn't purchase any armor. But even 600 minerals into lasers- at 625 minerals into missiles you're only 4.17dps behind, and are able to ignore the majority of your opponents' armor.
::NOTE:: I would love if somebody else would check my math. Message me if you're interested in breaking the game apart some more
::EDIT:: fixed some information
Interesting. But the fact still lies in that laser also hits creeps. If you do a massive 60+ laser attack, then most of the dps get wasted on creeps....
agree. I start with getting laser lvl 5~6 for farm and then I go mass missiles (unless i see that they don't know what armor is). Going laser heavy vs good players is not good imo, it is so easy to conter.
My normal BC "build": start: 3 lvl speed 2 laser rest (1 i think) range farm laser to lvl 5~6 and more range armor lvl 10 more speed (until the 800 upgrade) more farm (having that high armor and speed will make you very hard to gank, so you can go out far for the farm without risking anything) missiles lvl ~12 and the 200 mineral extra missile uppgrade 800 cost speed more missile
The reason I preferring the BC for this build is that EMP can be good to have late game to prevent ppl from going around your armor and nuking you to death or spam PDD to remove your shots.
I am 10-4 with this since the game started saving stats so I think it works fine (not so good if everyone in the team do this tho as it is very late game oriented)
If lasers ( not possbile anyways per hit as you'dneed way more upgrades ( 3 vs 5+ and you also need to get +40 to match the base damage ) = damage of missiles, you need 17.5 missile attacks in every 4 second volley to match
4 x 1 / 0.23 = 4 x 4.34
but lasers don't always hit the targets you want
missiles don't hit creep, but have longer range ( always capital ships )
you should probably get more missiles than lasers or get some other upgrade?
On December 09 2010 22:18 nalgene wrote: ... but lasers don't always hit the targets you want ...
Just a note: Laser and missile have the same target prio. That is the most damaged enemy player with in range first. If no player is in range then lasers can fire at creaps. If the missiles and lasers attacks 2 different ships it is because the most damaged ship (the ship the missiles are targeting) is out of range for the lasers they there for pick a target within range.
On December 09 2010 22:18 nalgene wrote: ... but lasers don't always hit the targets you want ...
Just a note: Laser and missile have the same target prio. That is the most damaged enemy player with in range first. If no player is in range then lasers can fire at creaps. If the missiles and lasers attacks 2 different ships it is because the most damaged ship (the ship the missiles are targeting) is out of range for the lasers they there for pick a target within range.
On the whole lasers vs. missiles matter, I would emphasise that it's not really an arbitrary 'x is better than y' issue, but rather it depends on your play style and build. For the most part, missiles will suit an 'assassin' style ship, especially when upgrades for range and speed are bought. The advantage of this is that you stay out of the main brawl and are less susceptible to ganks and area of effect abilities (vortex, storm, nuke ect.) and if you get the upgrades for additional missile attacks you can cause some serious damage and are prime position to take out damaged ships which are attempting to limp to safety. On the other hand, laser upgrades suit more tanky builds, which require armour and shield improvements, and pretty much rely on regen. or shield abilities to protect you from burst damage. Additionally, spells become more effective since you're right up close to your enemies, so they can't run away from really high damage abilities like strike cannons and photon barrage, having to eat the damage, which can often turn the course of the battle.
Missiles are nice for creeping in that you will deal damage to enemy ships faster, forcing them to pull back sooner, giving you and your team more time to farm creeps. But if you plan to farm at all you definitely have to make sure you have enough laser damage to 1 hit creeps first, otherwise you'll get creep denied 50-60% of the time so long as there is another ship, friend or foe, near you.
This map is awesome though. I know everyone and their dog has ideas for additions to the game. Here's mine:
1: An option to install a more powerful weapon on your ship that is treated as an ability with a cooldown but no mana cost (much like Raynor's special weapons in the single player campaign). This would be a great way to add further differentiation between the different ships. Just for example, the carrier could have some kind of wave attack that is great for creeping, the destroyer could have a targeted area effect, the battle cruiser could have a line attack, and the Leviathan could have some kind life-draining ability that targets an enemy ship, dealing damage and healing itself at the same time.
2: Different creep ships; I'd like it if more powerful creep ships appeared from time to time. There are plenty of other unused ship models in the game, it would be nice if they occasionally appeared. This would also add another consideration to your ship build; instead of only tiny creep fighters or massive capital ships you have an in-between enemy you need to account for.
3: Escort ships; all capital ships should have their own selection of escort craft to purchase. These escort craft could share base upgrades with you, and have their own additional pool of special abilities to upgrade. They would not be directly controllable but would simply follow you around in formation and use their abilities automatically. The Carrier, for example, could have scouts, void rays, observers, transports (just use the transport model but give it some weapons/abilities) and perhaps even miniature motherships/carriers to choose from. The battlecruiser (and destroyer?) could have ravens, science vessels, medivacs, mini battlecruisers/jackson revenges, larger wraiths/vikings. The leviathan could have broodlords, scourge swarms, overlords and overseers, and bigger mutas.
These escort craft could have varying roles; help with creeping, help with sniping, regenerate your health, shields, or mana, directly tank for you, etc.
This would further differentiate the different capital ships and give the players more interesting strategic options.
These escort ships could be from the same pool as the larger neutral creep ships too.
I personally feel that the creeps should be buffed more. Even in late game after all the HP increase, they still feel like insignificant insects. In the early game, a swarm of creeps should present SOME threat to a lone capital ship at least.
Also, the two prisms/vessels need more dps. They aren't really serving their roles very well.
On December 10 2010 13:59 dukethegold wrote: I personally feel that the creeps should be buffed more. Even in late game after all the HP increase, they still feel like insignificant insects. In the early game, a swarm of creeps should present SOME threat to a lone capital ship at least.
Also, the two prisms/vessels need more dps. They aren't really serving their roles very well.
I disagree about the creeps. No one needs more of an excuse to stay in one big stupid herd the entire game—especially at the beginning.
I've played with too many teams that spend the first ten minutes trying to gang up on enemy capital ships, miss out on farming completely, and lose because they're way behind in upgrades. They then insist that they should've done better at ganging up on ships early. One team even blamed me for farming instead of joining the posse.
No, if anything, we need more encouragement to farm first and win decisively.
You MUST upgrade to lvl 4 lasers to one shot creeps (makes farming so much faster and upgrade is dirt cheap). Lvl 4 lasers puts you at 22 atk dmg. Creeps have 20 hp (10 sh, 10 hp) in the beginning, but can get upgraded later on. Not entirely sure when they get upgraded, but I have seen them at 15 sh, 15 hp with armor and attack upgrades.
Aeo has it spot on. Farming is priority one at the beginning of the game. There is not enough dps early on to gang up on ships. Like in normal SC2 ladder, boosting your eco early on to tech up is a better play than an "all in", but with less risks in this custom map.
There is also the aspect of the team dynamic, i.e. how the tech paths chosen by each team member complement each other. For example, one guy can get feedback while the rest of the team can be high dps Leviathans. Eliminating spells puts the match in your favor if your team has built for normal attack upgrades. What do you guys think of the team dynamic aspect? I know there are tons of combos to be discovered.
The mutalisks/wraiths/interceptors should move faster as you upgrade them ( +0.05 speed per upgrade, +1 HP regen to capital ship, +0.5 HP regen to these units, Release range + 0.20 per upgrade, decrease attack cooldown by 0.05 each upgrade, decrease the release time by 0.01 per upgrade ) Decrease the attack cooldown on these units Increase the base damage to 20 for mutalisks
I agree about farming early. I do my best to avoid enemy ships in the first 5 minutes. Nothing gets accomplished with the early ganging, except in very rare occasions.
I think interceptors kind of suck, but maybe I'm wrong about some of my assumptions: 1) as mentioned, give more minerals than normal fighters 2) horrible launch range; have to get very close 3) most difficult to control targeting (do you have any control?) 4) enemy ships can outrun them
you can control them if you box select them similar to controlling corruptors, but if you have nothing to attack they go back away... imo they're worthless until they either upgrade their movement and deployment speed, and allow them to be released while moving.
ganging up in beginning is only successful against noobs who forget to upgrade speed, or if you have a really good premade and are able to prohibit the other team from being able to farm creeps effectively. But for the most part unless you go 6 carrier/bc team with all plasma barrage to 1hit people, you lack firepower to do anything without farming first.
I know Battleships already had it, but.... Any interest in implementing a Trader soon? I feel like this is the framework for one of the first immensely intricate games for Customs.
early gangups often work because usually on every team there's at least 1 newbie and you get lucky ganking him quite a lot. Of course, if the guy's a newb and dies that fast, he was never going to be a factor anyways. Meanwhile, a much larger portion of your team is sacrificing proper creeping just to deny creeping to only 1 or 2 members of the other team. It's a losing strategy.
On December 10 2010 13:59 dukethegold wrote: I personally feel that the creeps should be buffed more. Even in late game after all the HP increase, they still feel like insignificant insects. In the early game, a swarm of creeps should present SOME threat to a lone capital ship at least.
Also, the two prisms/vessels need more dps. They aren't really serving their roles very well.
I disagree about the creeps. No one needs more of an excuse to stay in one big stupid herd the entire game—especially at the beginning.
I've played with too many teams that spend the first ten minutes trying to gang up on enemy capital ships, miss out on farming completely, and lose because they're way behind in upgrades. They then insist that they should've done better at ganging up on ships early. One team even blamed me for farming instead of joining the posse.
No, if anything, we need more encouragement to farm first and win decisively.
Well I disagree with you. I personally feel the creeps should do some notable damage, but nothing that would kill you... it would simply weaken you for a fight if you were to be caught off guard.
More importantly, I would be fine with no damage upgrade to the creeps if they would simply increase the health and possibly armor by a considerable amount. Having to hit them a few times wouldn't make it so trivial, and you could make pushes with your own creeps if you are quickly killing the enemies creeps which would in turn keep your own alive.
On December 08 2010 16:29 andrewwiggin wrote: Tried this game.
It was so tragically BORING.
I don't understand, why do the ships move so slowly? It doesn't make it any more fun... and it could probably be that much more fun if ship speed was increased from snail speed to turtle speed at LEAST!
I don't recommend it to anyone unless you're over the age of 85 or like playing lawn bowls.
I find DotA and it's clones tragically boring, but this I enjoy quite a bit. The difference is that I have no idea what to do in the DotA gams, whereas I have a plan in Star Battle.
nukes are pretty OP, might wanna nerf the damage from 6k to 4k and from 400 minerals to 300 or something in that direction
EDIT: What i forgot to mention: The battlecruisers (and maybe destroyer's and carrier's) armor upgrade. Why the f*** give them 3 armor per upgrades and the leviathan only 1? just because they have shields. Bring this armor upgrade down to 1.5 armor or something because it effectively makes the standard attack like tentacles and particle disruptors obsolete when attack an armor build BC.
On December 12 2010 05:56 vortex1994 wrote: nukes are pretty OP, might wanna nerf the damage from 6k to 4k and from 400 minerals to 300 or something in that direction
EDIT: What i forgot to mention: The battlecruisers (and maybe destroyer's and carrier's) armor upgrade. Why the f*** give them 3 armor per upgrades and the leviathan only 1? just because they have shields. Bring this armor upgrade down to 1.5 armor or something because it effectively makes the standard attack like tentacles and particle disruptors obsolete when attack an armor build BC.
you forget that other ships hp is fixed (only shield upgrades) and shields don't benefit from armor upgrades. Leviathans can upgrade their total hp and therefore their armor effects their total lifespan instead of only 8k hp worth of it. And if they are upgrading armor through the roof you should start upping bile swarm instead of tentacles since it is more bursty or take the caster route.
also frenzy + corruption doing 50% more damage, 50% faster and the 20% from corruption helps negate any armor anyway.
Well they added another ship. The Voidray. It starts with 1.51 speed, faster than any other ship.
Not to mention you can cloak, change to voidray attack (the charging beam), and attack while moving while cloaked all at the same time. With no detection available on the map at all, other than like 10ft away from the mothership, this is probably the most OP ability ever.
Upgrade energy to ~400, get cloak, match you're opponents speed (not hard with 1.51 starting speed), and then upgrade your beam (to about 200dmg a sec) and GG you're unstoppable.
Actually, I find its mobility to be the most disgusting feature on the voidray. Even without the Flux Vanes upgrade (which reduces its acceleration time @ 125 minerals), the smaller model just allows it to turn much faster. Where it would take tricks to make a capital ship turn on a dime, I can almost literally just click where i want to go and the voidray will handle itself.
Not crying nerf or anything, it just felt out of place on a map where some of the "epicness" derives from the ships being "Capital" ships (i.e. slow, sluggish, and hard hitting).
On December 12 2010 14:25 Zooper31 wrote: Well they added another ship. The Voidray. It starts with 1.51 speed, faster than any other ship.
Not to mention you can cloak, change to voidray attack (the charging beam), and attack while moving while cloaked all at the same time. With no detection available on the map at all, other than like 10ft away from the mothership, this is probably the most OP ability ever.
Upgrade energy to ~400, get cloak, match you're opponents speed (not hard with 1.51 starting speed), and then upgrade your beam (to about 200dmg a sec) and GG you're unstoppable.
I personally like the variety introduced with the void ray. It's fast, but a bit of a glass cannon.
I also like the idea of switching between farming weapons/capital ship weapons, and the weird control required to aim the beam + charge ability, etc are nice ideas. It does seems weird to have to upgrade weapons for farming that will be a non-factor in real battles. In sum, I think it's a good sign of interesting things that could be introduced, even if it isn't balanced yet.
Is there any real use for the purifier beam? It does more damage, but only until the prismatic beam is upgraded, and with charge up, prismatic comes out way ahead.
On December 12 2010 05:56 vortex1994 wrote: nukes are pretty OP, might wanna nerf the damage from 6k to 4k and from 400 minerals to 300 or something in that direction
EDIT: What i forgot to mention: The battlecruisers (and maybe destroyer's and carrier's) armor upgrade. Why the f*** give them 3 armor per upgrades and the leviathan only 1? just because they have shields. Bring this armor upgrade down to 1.5 armor or something because it effectively makes the standard attack like tentacles and particle disruptors obsolete when attack an armor build BC.
you forget that other ships hp is fixed (only shield upgrades) and shields don't benefit from armor upgrades. Leviathans can upgrade their total hp and therefore their armor effects their total lifespan instead of only 8k hp worth of it. And if they are upgrading armor through the roof you should start upping bile swarm instead of tentacles since it is more bursty or take the caster route.
also frenzy + corruption doing 50% more damage, 50% faster and the 20% from corruption helps negate any armor anyway.
Am I the only one actually don't like the void ray? It feels too fragile. In a game where a lot is determined by how well engagements go, it lacks the hp and damage to fight well against the other ships early on. I guess later on it can have a strong damage output, but it's still too fragile to damage, and whether it can effectively get to midgame is a question to me. Its inability to farm up money while in a fight hurts it a lot too...although you can choose to fight with just the cannons. When I play it, I have to farm up some money in the early game before I skirmish with the beam or otherwise I end up with no money later on and get screwed over.
On December 12 2010 16:53 roronoe wrote: Am I the only one actually don't like the void ray? It feels too fragile. In a game where a lot is determined by how well engagements go, it lacks the hp and damage to fight well against the other ships early on. I guess later on it can have a strong damage output, but it's still too fragile to damage, and whether it can effectively get to midgame is a question to me. Its inability to farm up money while in a fight hurts it a lot too...although you can choose to fight with just the cannons. When I play it, I have to farm up some money in the early game before I skirmish with the beam or otherwise I end up with no money later on and get screwed over.
While I personally like the void ray, I have to agree with this. Early game you're boned, but once you get a few levels of prismatic + permacharge mana you can just warp in and rape people. Not to mention the ability to actually control who you shoot at, which makes it such a good sniping ship. I haven't tried it with any sort of range build, but I imagine that could also work wonders if they try to prism you too hard or something.
On December 12 2010 16:53 roronoe wrote: Am I the only one actually don't like the void ray? It feels too fragile. In a game where a lot is determined by how well engagements go, it lacks the hp and damage to fight well against the other ships early on. I guess later on it can have a strong damage output, but it's still too fragile to damage, and whether it can effectively get to midgame is a question to me. Its inability to farm up money while in a fight hurts it a lot too...although you can choose to fight with just the cannons. When I play it, I have to farm up some money in the early game before I skirmish with the beam or otherwise I end up with no money later on and get screwed over.
While I personally like the void ray, I have to agree with this. Early game you're boned, but once you get a few levels of prismatic + permacharge mana you can just warp in and rape people. Not to mention the ability to actually control who you shoot at, which makes it such a good sniping ship. I haven't tried it with any sort of range build, but I imagine that could also work wonders if they try to prism you too hard or something.
I should clarify, I really do like it for the variety it brings to the game, but I wouldn't want to use it unless I have a competent team. It has a really specialized role in the game (lol @ the games right now with 5 void rays on a team). I still need to play more games with it to see how good it really is, at the moment I feel its weaker than the other ships overall, cause of what I mentioned earlier. Its spells are lacking, but I guess that's okay if its only meant as a dps/sniping ship.
On December 12 2010 17:21 Ryalnos wrote: At the moment, the Void Ray is a glass cannon. I think I like this (at least it's fast/high acceleration).
Luvin the void ray. Starts with 1 higher base speed than others, lasers are fairly okay but the beam is just win in a bottle. Rays can also get amazing farm if you get 3 speedups, because you'll be equal speed/faster than everyone else, so its easier to take risks and farm super close to their prisms/vessels.
Has anyone used blink? it looks kinda useful for evading but im not sure if its really worth it o.o
I'd like to see how Void Ray fares with a lot of upgrades, but it's hard to get that far.
The problems are:
-Only one kind of dps at a time (have to switch between beams instead of having missiles + lasers) -No fighters (not a big deal really)
As others have commented, it's damn hard to farm. And Energy Nova is the weakest of the AoE farming spells I've seen - the radius around you that it affects seems small. I'd like to see the laser weapon fire faster or something so that if you could spam charge (to boost damage) its farming capabilities would still be nice.
Here are my thoughts on the voidray after losing and winning several battles with it. The main thing it's good at is chasing, because it cannot win a straight up firefight, nor hope to outrange an enemy with it's main mode of DPS. It may have a useful role as a spellcaster, but I haven't experimented with that yet (Although I see great potential for chrono-rift), but as it stands, void rays will only be a bonus to your team if you are already winning.
One thing I noticed it CAN do though, is farm semi-effectively throughout the game with it's beam weapon, because it will ALWAYS one-shot fighters, for most of the game. However, its turn speed is fairly slow, and its firing arc is quite tiny, making it hard to use it for farming.
Suggestion: Increase the firing arc for the prismatic beam.
This should make Void Rays rather good at farming and give them a distinct advantage, as well as making them better chasers (since they won't have to hug the enemy ship's butt to be able to do damage).
Anyway, since they are so squishy, they are a great liability in most fights, the only way they're going to be able to pull their own weight is if you're already winning. Since their main source of DPS is a weapon that only fires forward, they cannot help but commit to teamfights, and they are screwed if it goes badly. I think giving it like a 90-135 degree firing arc on the prismatic beam will give void rays the ability to skirmish without being like "HEY I'M A SITTING DUCK CHANNELING THIS BEAM AT 7 RANGE AND I HAVE NO HP" and without having to invest in lasers, which they won't even be using half the time.
Well I haven't tried the void ray out yet, but I had been thinking about what it would be like to introduce very unique units to the game and figured some problems would arise that people have mentioned. It is hard to balance things out when the capital ships are at times painfully slow.
Perhaps a good way to balance things would be to allow good compositions to be favorable such as having creeps do more damage, so the capital's ships job would be to tank more of the white damage. There are obvious problems with that, but either way I think the game will need to be changed if unique ships are to be added in and be balanced. On the other hand if they aren't added in the game will remain-quite frankly-bland.
I'm loving this map, i've tried the void ray a little but it didn't convince me, i agree it looks more like a glass cannon with more glass than cannon.
If there is a tournament i'll def watch it, i'm not sure about the longevity of this game though, dota had a far more complicated map with more farming options + lots of items and more heroes, i would love to see this evolve into something more complex to be played in a more competitive way.
On December 12 2010 11:46 baconbits wrote: you forget that other ships hp is fixed (only shield upgrades) and shields don't benefit from armor upgrades. Leviathans can upgrade their total hp and therefore their armor effects their total lifespan instead of only 8k hp worth of it. And if they are upgrading armor through the roof you should start upping bile swarm instead of tentacles since it is more bursty or take the caster route.
also frenzy + corruption doing 50% more damage, 50% faster and the 20% from corruption helps negate any armor anyway.
Then change the armor upgrade to adding armor to reg armor and shield armor at the same time, if you would spec armor completely as BC (with a bit of laser upgrades) you can negate virtually every bit of damage
On December 12 2010 11:46 baconbits wrote: you forget that other ships hp is fixed (only shield upgrades) and shields don't benefit from armor upgrades. Leviathans can upgrade their total hp and therefore their armor effects their total lifespan instead of only 8k hp worth of it. And if they are upgrading armor through the roof you should start upping bile swarm instead of tentacles since it is more bursty or take the caster route.
also frenzy + corruption doing 50% more damage, 50% faster and the 20% from corruption helps negate any armor anyway.
Then change the armor upgrade to adding armor to reg armor and shield armor at the same time, if you would spec armor completely as BC (with a bit of laser upgrades) you can negate virtually every bit of damage
When you say it it sounds like you actually have any influence over the mechanics upgrades. "Then do this and that" is a stupid advice iof you actually CAN´T do it.
Also for people who didn´t know, the carrier had also cloak and it is not op to have cloak. At least the carrier had other decent spells so cloak was a waste of mana. Void Ray doesn´t have that great spells. Chrono rift + Chrono rift + Chrono rift maybe. Everything else is meh or crazy expensive then meh.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
On December 12 2010 16:24 DiracMonopole wrote: Is there any real use for the purifier beam? It does more damage, but only until the prismatic beam is upgraded, and with charge up, prismatic comes out way ahead.
The mana burn with charge? It doesn't take long to burn most of a person's mana, and you can switch target easily to potentially take out 2 the energy of 2 ships. I kinda like it, and it improves the utility of the ship massively.
As for general thoughts on the voidray:
- I felt pretty confused in terms of what to upgrade, there are many skills and they don't all interlink that well. Another problem is that the VR seems really dependent on both weapon upgrades and spells and thus on energy upgrades. To get maximum damage out of it you have to have high damage and attack speed and enough energy to charge as much as possible and/or blink/cloak yourself out of trouble. - I like the shield upgrade alot, but again I think finding enough money to upgrade this as well is an issue - These money problems are all compounded by the fact that it's not that easy to farm with the VR. The base speed increase is useful, but not being able to have secondary weapons firing on fighters while you're focusing down a ship adds up to alot of lost money. The energy blast doesn't really have a large enough blast radius to be used effectively for farming either. - Blink is pretty useless at the moment, due to the way you have to blink within range of the spell, rather than being able to blink in a direction outside the spell range. This is not how blinks works in normal SC2, so I think a fairly simple fix should make it more useable. - Not having a range increase on the main beam attack ends up being a bit of an issue late game, as people can pummel you from pretty far away before you even get to them, which would be alright if it weren't for survivability issues linked to what I talked about above. - I'd love to see upgrades for prismatic beam (maybe making it cause a % increase in damage dealt to the target) just because I think it's a cool ability, and I like the idea of switching weapons often to suit the situation
Anyway, despite all this I really enjoyed playing the VR. I'm gonna try doing some different builds and seeing what happens.
On another note, how awesome is Carrier + Storm. I think the reason I'm saying VR farming is bad is because storm + warp with no cooldown is just too brilliant for farming.
For ray farming start with 3 speed, 2 lazor and go have fun around their prisms. If you see someone running, move into their retreat path and beam them dooown. Then go back to farming :D
When you have ~500-900 minerals go back, get 200 and 400 speed upgrades and spend the rest in prism beam's ASpeed and Damage and if you want 1 or 2 laser damage upgrades.
In one game where i got superfarm the beam was dealing 110 every .23 seconds. Stuff melted ^.^
If the VR can survive long enough and farm well (which I'm seeing is helped by using charge with lasers) then it can get absolutely nasty DPS. I had ~700 with perma-charge on 500 creep kills.
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
Just because it's not like DotA EXACTLY doesn't mean it's bad. For this game, it seems like the authors going for a more micro/unit movement based game. (The importance of speed upgrades, the eventual introduction of asteroids, etc.) I like that. If I wanted to play DotA I'd play DotA. But I don't.
On December 12 2010 18:18 Vod.kaholic wrote: Here are my thoughts on the voidray after losing and winning several battles with it. The main thing it's good at is chasing, because it cannot win a straight up firefight, nor hope to outrange an enemy with it's main mode of DPS. It may have a useful role as a spellcaster, but I haven't experimented with that yet (Although I see great potential for chrono-rift), but as it stands, void rays will only be a bonus to your team if you are already winning.
One thing I noticed it CAN do though, is farm semi-effectively throughout the game with it's beam weapon, because it will ALWAYS one-shot fighters, for most of the game. However, its turn speed is fairly slow, and its firing arc is quite tiny, making it hard to use it for farming.
Suggestion: Increase the firing arc for the prismatic beam.
This should make Void Rays rather good at farming and give them a distinct advantage, as well as making them better chasers (since they won't have to hug the enemy ship's butt to be able to do damage).
Anyway, since they are so squishy, they are a great liability in most fights, the only way they're going to be able to pull their own weight is if you're already winning. Since their main source of DPS is a weapon that only fires forward, they cannot help but commit to teamfights, and they are screwed if it goes badly. I think giving it like a 90-135 degree firing arc on the prismatic beam will give void rays the ability to skirmish without being like "HEY I'M A SITTING DUCK CHANNELING THIS BEAM AT 7 RANGE AND I HAVE NO HP" and without having to invest in lasers, which they won't even be using half the time.
They'd be kinda rigged if they could use both weapons at once
Can blink/cloak/ fly faster than other ships as means of escape /best turn rates
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
Just because it's not like DotA EXACTLY doesn't mean it's bad. For this game, it seems like the authors going for a more micro/unit movement based game. (The importance of speed upgrades, the eventual introduction of asteroids, etc.) I like that. If I wanted to play DotA I'd play DotA. But I don't.
That has nothing to do with my point. My point is this game takes no skill whatsoever therefore it will flame out at the competitive level. Not that it's not enough like dota
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I really couldn't agree more. It is a well designed game and I do enjoy it, but when the main focus is getting generic upgrades that get cancelled out by the upgrade of opponents and farming creeps is completely mindless. Before anyone flames me... yes I understand there are different builds and different spells, but the fact is all of them are so forgiving. You can be losing a 1v1 and have PLENTY of time to turn around and run. For it to be very successful it will need to get more competitive, and currently with slow moving ships that you a-move most of the game, or simply cast a single damage spell with, there is too much room for error and it becomes difficult for more skilled players to get an edge.
Wow I am writing this poorly... the point is I do agree that it will need to be revamped in order to be competitive... and competition will make it very popular (though if the creator is content with it being a popular game amongst casuals thats fine) otherwise it will just be that game that people play once in awhile for fun... not the one that has a bunch of clans playing it.
Don't get me wrong, I am sure that there will still be clans for it, but... well if you don't understand what I'm trying to say at this point then just forget it. I know I'm not being the most coherent right now.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Well, now we know how to win every time.
Now, if you want to have fun playing Star Battle, methinks the first step is not doing any of that.
On December 12 2010 18:18 Vod.kaholic wrote: Here are my thoughts on the voidray after losing and winning several battles with it. The main thing it's good at is chasing, because it cannot win a straight up firefight, nor hope to outrange an enemy with it's main mode of DPS. It may have a useful role as a spellcaster, but I haven't experimented with that yet (Although I see great potential for chrono-rift), but as it stands, void rays will only be a bonus to your team if you are already winning.
One thing I noticed it CAN do though, is farm semi-effectively throughout the game with it's beam weapon, because it will ALWAYS one-shot fighters, for most of the game. However, its turn speed is fairly slow, and its firing arc is quite tiny, making it hard to use it for farming.
Suggestion: Increase the firing arc for the prismatic beam.
This should make Void Rays rather good at farming and give them a distinct advantage, as well as making them better chasers (since they won't have to hug the enemy ship's butt to be able to do damage).
Anyway, since they are so squishy, they are a great liability in most fights, the only way they're going to be able to pull their own weight is if you're already winning. Since their main source of DPS is a weapon that only fires forward, they cannot help but commit to teamfights, and they are screwed if it goes badly. I think giving it like a 90-135 degree firing arc on the prismatic beam will give void rays the ability to skirmish without being like "HEY I'M A SITTING DUCK CHANNELING THIS BEAM AT 7 RANGE AND I HAVE NO HP" and without having to invest in lasers, which they won't even be using half the time.
They'd be kinda rigged if they could use both weapons at once
Can blink/cloak/ fly faster than other ships as means of escape /best turn rates
I never said that...I was asking for a buff to ONE weapon (the beam), not asking that they be able to use the beam and lasers at the same time.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
You need to have flux in order to gank anything with the laser attack.
There REALLY doesn't need to be a buff to the laser. The laser is already extremely powerful as it is. The drawbacks of the laser need to be there so that it isn't absolutely ridiculous.
ps. the gradual strengthening of the fighters is awesome.
Funny game. But it can't be played competitive, because it is too simple. But it is addictive and fun, which made me spent a couple hours on it. And I will probably spend 10 hours more on it.
But it is far from DotA level, something where I spent already over 4000 games on. Which would be around 125 days of my life, and yesterday I had a epic 75 minute game. SCII just need the possibility to use mods in custom games to gain some sort of ranking system.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
Just because it's not like DotA EXACTLY doesn't mean it's bad. For this game, it seems like the authors going for a more micro/unit movement based game. (The importance of speed upgrades, the eventual introduction of asteroids, etc.) I like that. If I wanted to play DotA I'd play DotA. But I don't.
That has nothing to do with my point. My point is this game takes no skill whatsoever therefore it will flame out at the competitive level. Not that it's not enough like dota
Last hitting was one of the things i hated about dota, it's more ping than skill dependent. It's also some stupid farming skill you get with practice. Not really what competitive gaming should aim for. This map is new and we should consider it unfinished, the dev talked about adding alot more stuff, that will improve the gameplay over time. Once you have alternative ways of farming, more stuff to buy than just abilities (items/additional small ships comes to mind), the skill ceiling will go up, as it will with more balance where errors get punished more. Keep in mind there is no respawn, so a death in this game is not to be taken lightly. The void ray helps in that regard, if you get caught by a VR and your team fails to send it away, you're dead.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
It works against any team. You can't escape the void because it's simply faster than you could ever be (as anything else) and once the beam locks on it "sticks" to you, so you can't get away. Even the dreaded special spammers aren't so scary now that there is protection for being hit many times in a short time.
Beam ignores PDD too, so you can't use that to bail yourself out.
The only reason why this will fail (I can think of) is that you simply don't have control of a whole team .
Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
It works against any team. You can't escape the void because it's simply faster than you could ever be (as anything else) and once the beam locks on it "sticks" to you, so you can't get away. Even the dreaded special spammers aren't so scary now that there is protection for being hit many times in a short time.
Beam ignores PDD too, so you can't use that to bail yourself out.
The only reason why this will fail (I can think of) is that you simply don't have control of a whole team .
Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
Void ray beam has fixed(not-upgradeable) range 7, most ships will outrange that easily, just don't let them get all in 7 range, and if they do, start spreading out so you can hit the VR while they can't hit you, and if you also focus fire (it seems like you're assuming one arranged team will ff and the other is just a pug which randomly targets), then the VRs will go down..
On December 14 2010 01:33 Edmon wrote: Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
Nah, cloak -> gg (please play the game a bit before you write something like "autowin") oh and a nuke forces your entire group to abort any sort of attack and scatter, then get picked off easily because you only have vrs. Plus your antifighter capabilities are so awful that you cannot assault near the enemy base. So yeah..no chance you can win with that awful strategy against any kind of decent team.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
It works against any team. You can't escape the void because it's simply faster than you could ever be (as anything else) and once the beam locks on it "sticks" to you, so you can't get away. Even the dreaded special spammers aren't so scary now that there is protection for being hit many times in a short time.
Beam ignores PDD too, so you can't use that to bail yourself out.
The only reason why this will fail (I can think of) is that you simply don't have control of a whole team .
Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
except, you know, you can't gank with prismatic beam until you have flux.
More to the point—or my point, anyway—I don't know many people who would be willing to choose V-ray, then share control and sit back while someone else wins for them. Also, win or lose, you're giving up any sort of extended game, because you'll either win outright or get outfarmed and outupgraded.
On the other hand, maybe Star Battle needed a sort of "cheese" play to make it legitimate. :p
Can you add a way to allow people to view what upgrades they could buy and what research they could get, provided that they haven't bought the research, without being at base?
-It wouldn't affect the balance, it'd kind of be like DotA ( without the buying away from base function of course for this specific map ) where you could hotkey all the shops in your own base and read everything without adding some overlays like in hoN/LoL ( obscures view ).
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
Just because it's not like DotA EXACTLY doesn't mean it's bad. For this game, it seems like the authors going for a more micro/unit movement based game. (The importance of speed upgrades, the eventual introduction of asteroids, etc.) I like that. If I wanted to play DotA I'd play DotA. But I don't.
That has nothing to do with my point. My point is this game takes no skill whatsoever therefore it will flame out at the competitive level. Not that it's not enough like dota
Last hitting was one of the things i hated about dota, it's more ping than skill dependent. It's also some stupid farming skill you get with practice. Not really what competitive gaming should aim for. This map is new and we should consider it unfinished, the dev talked about adding alot more stuff, that will improve the gameplay over time. Once you have alternative ways of farming, more stuff to buy than just abilities (items/additional small ships comes to mind), the skill ceiling will go up, as it will with more balance where errors get punished more. Keep in mind there is no respawn, so a death in this game is not to be taken lightly. The void ray helps in that regard, if you get caught by a VR and your team fails to send it away, you're dead.
They could deny someone 100% XP in pre 6.32 and prior versions if they were good at the timing, ( range units often had a projectile animation + innate animation to start firing + weaker damage to start, but melee units had a faster animation+minor delay, higher damage at start, but limited range ) Each hero had different timings that weren't listen in the game, you'd just have to memorize all of them ( the jaina one with the frostnova had a really high delay on the animation )
By the way, can you let the fighters increase over 80 hp at maximum + possible 20 from the two science vessels?
They don't go over 100 hp over a mega long game.
And is it possible to change their attack to 1xDamage instead of 2xDamage? It shows up as like 8damage2hits instead of 16damage1hit ( latter is better for the mini fighters as they only need to subtract damage once instead of twice )
The Voidray's 2+8 Shield armor upgrade reduces pretty much all the damage for the most part until they get over 11x2 ( they'd do only 2 damage afterwards as a 1x2 hits )
Ive run into a few teams of all void-ray people. It makes me smile, because all I have to do once I figure it out is tell my team to stick the hell together, and give one guy (whoever picked BC) all the farm. Once he gets nuke and a bunch of energy upgrades, the mass void strategy fails completely. I play with a few friends, but we always have some randoms. If we see mass void, the guy in our group just buys quick nuke, then charges the voids so they cant flee him. he sacs himself, but we get 2-3 kills off it, then we quickly take farm positions and upgrade miles past the remaining voids. Never fails. With coordination, its not easy to lose to that strategy.
On a side note, has the map designer considered an auto-balance feature if someone drops in the start menu? It bugs me to no end when I have two drops before starting. Its hard to win, but i just take destroyer and siege-mode camp my sci vessel/warp prism.
This is a potentially silly question, but why isn't resource sharing enabled?
It would open up new potential in organized team games, like: I go siege destroyer, which is so good when you have a good team support, but loses out late game because you aren't farming kills for upgrades, just pounding away at towers and enemy capitals. If your support team could feed you some of the money they make from protecting you, it would help you keep up in the late game.
I understand that it would possibly be dangerous, with the possibility that some people could cheese at the start of the game donating to one person and making one megaship, but a smart team would be able to avoid that pretty easily.
Especially because it is so hard to run away from them because they have: -Very fast speed that allows them to chase you down, especially with flux vanes. This also makes it pretty much impossible to chase down a void ray. -Ridiculous dps with prismatic beam that can be doubled with their special ability -And an imbalanced leeway range that requires no micro at all.
Pretty much if you encounter a void ray 1 on 1 ur screwed. The only way to escape a void ray is to have some team members come and have both of you attack it to force it to retreat.
On December 15 2010 06:20 number1gog wrote: This is a potentially silly question, but why isn't resource sharing enabled?
It would open up new potential in organized team games, like: I go siege destroyer, which is so good when you have a good team support, but loses out late game because you aren't farming kills for upgrades, just pounding away at towers and enemy capitals. If your support team could feed you some of the money they make from protecting you, it would help you keep up in the late game.
I understand that it would possibly be dangerous, with the possibility that some people could cheese at the start of the game donating to one person and making one megaship, but a smart team would be able to avoid that pretty easily.
The whole point of disabling the resource sharing is to prevent abuse like that from happening. As of now, this sort of stuff already happens to a certain degree when players automatically leave right after the game finishes loading. This gives extra minerals to the rest of the team for additional upgrades. Although you're down one player, you've still got the unoccupied ship to act as a meatshield and got an additional upgrade right off the bat, which is quite important early in the game.
Avoiding a single strong built ship is very hard to do, even if you've got upgrades yourself. One misclick and you are as good as dead if you get within range of it's attacks. Also need to remember its not going to be 1 megaship vs their entire army, but rather 1 megaship and your ally of non upgraded ships vs your opponents evenly spread upgrades on their ships.
You can also suggest having them focus down the ship. If a team decided to go with a strategy like that to begin with, I'd assume the core player would know how to keep his/her ship alive at all costs. You can't focus down a ship unless the person misclicks and messes up. Even then, it will still break away from it's range since it will be guaranteed to move faster than everyone else.
Since all players start off with 250 minerals, with 6 players total, if everyone transfers over their minerals and focused on 1 player, that would be an instant 1500 mineral upgraded ship right off the bat. If teams got a little strategic, all players can spend 50 on warp before giving rest the minerals to the single player. The core player would move up to the front lines to engage and the rest of the team would all warp in together and focus fire down a ship, taking out at least 1 or potentially 2 ships right off the bat.
I agree that there should be some sort of auto balancing for drops, since every game I have played has had at least 1 person drop at the start. Not more cash I think, but upgraded fighters to slow down the enemy farm.
Upgrade your speed early (to as high as possible), after that VRs are up, they farm pretty bad. Also, if he uses his pb launch your fighters (if you don't run away ofc).
Remember: Everytime the VR uses his pb he does not get any money. If he chases you and brings you into the yellow, but has to abort he wins absolutely nothing (and you didn't lose anything aside from time, yet still getting some money from random fighters). Just don't go to deep into enemy territory/try to match his speed (or stay within the 1.0 speed range) and keep your distance (because 2 or 3 vrs can kill you).
There are several counters to void rays that I can think of.
Since half of a void ray's DPS comes from charge, feedback/emp/etc. are great against it. Prismatic beam has a short range, so getting heavy range upgrades can allow you to kite void rays efficiently (.1 or .2 extra speed does not allow you to catch up to another ship quickly).
Further, void rays are only strong if they're given free range to farm.
On December 15 2010 23:34 Ryalnos wrote: There are several counters to void rays that I can think of.
Since half of a void ray's DPS comes from charge, feedback/emp/etc. are great against it. Prismatic beam has a short range, so getting heavy range upgrades can allow you to kite void rays efficiently (.1 or .2 extra speed does not allow you to catch up to another ship quickly).
Further, void rays are only strong if they're given free range to farm.
On December 15 2010 23:34 Ryalnos wrote: There are several counters to void rays that I can think of.
Since half of a void ray's DPS comes from charge, feedback/emp/etc. are great against it. Prismatic beam has a short range, so getting heavy range upgrades can allow you to kite void rays efficiently (.1 or .2 extra speed does not allow you to catch up to another ship quickly).
Further, void rays are only strong if they're given free range to farm.
Anything is strong if given free range to farm.
Of course, but void ray dps scales most with farming. One reason is that its 'extra attacks' upgrade stacks multiplicatively @ 18% (2 -> 2.44 -> 2.9-7>3.63->4.42 attacks/second) rather than simply adding an attack (like 5->6->7->8 missiles).
The key is that Void Rays begin weak as hell in the early game (though they're always squishy) and if left alone they become 'OP omgggg' in the late game.
I think the constant strengthening of the fighters kinda put a curb to it though, at least slightly. I find that because I have to keep upgrading the creeping attack I can't just put all my money into prismatic beam upgrades. There's always going to be those people that play really obnoxious and get flux first and prismatic upgrades and they can be really annoying to deal with early on but if everyone plays it out safely then as the game goes on they'll become weaker and weaker because their farming capabilities are going to be terrible. I think this even goes for void ray players that just go 4farming then never upgrade it again. Their farming capabilities will eventually become pretty neutered.
On December 14 2010 01:33 Edmon wrote: Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
Nah, cloak -> gg (please play the game a bit before you write something like "autowin") oh and a nuke forces your entire group to abort any sort of attack and scatter, then get picked off easily because you only have vrs. Plus your antifighter capabilities are so awful that you cannot assault near the enemy base. So yeah..no chance you can win with that awful strategy against any kind of decent team.
Your ignorance of how the game works astounds me. You should take your own advice and play the game before you comment.
Cloak is only used to "dodge" specials in high level play. Staying cloaked is massive waste of energy and your energy will not regenerate while it's active. Plus if you bought cloak with your starting money you will literally have -nothing- else.
And the guy that suggested nuke. Seriously? Have you even played the game. You start with 250 minerals. Nuke is 400.
There is only one way to mitigate the strategy that I have seen and that is vortex, but it will likely only come after you've made several V-Ray gank-kills and thus it will be too late.
Regardless of whether void rays are OP or not, they're really stupid and I wish they would be removed. They're not fun to play, and they're not fun to play against.
On December 16 2010 06:14 Hinanawi wrote: Regardless of whether void rays are OP or not, they're really stupid and I wish they would be removed. They're not fun to play, and they're not fun to play against.
I completely disagree. The voidray is great for making people regret going ALL the way to the other sides' base and farming because you can trail right behind them and kill / heavily damage them.
The voidray is easily countered in a massive fight, if your teammates know anything they, and you, should focus one of the voids down first so you can keep fighting until you're in the yellow and not worry about being followed home by a void and possibly dying.
On December 16 2010 06:14 Hinanawi wrote: Regardless of whether void rays are OP or not, they're really stupid and I wish they would be removed. They're not fun to play, and they're not fun to play against.
Err yea, they're not stupid and require a different play style to work with. You can't treat the VR as a BC, Carrier, etc. I actually enjoy playing with the VR myself. Don't like it? Play with the other ships instead.
On December 15 2010 07:10 thegamer wrote: Ya gotta admit that void rays are OP.
Especially because it is so hard to run away from them because they have: -Very fast speed that allows them to chase you down, especially with flux vanes. This also makes it pretty much impossible to chase down a void ray. -Ridiculous dps with prismatic beam that can be doubled with their special ability -And an imbalanced leeway range that requires no micro at all.
Pretty much if you encounter a void ray 1 on 1 ur screwed. The only way to escape a void ray is to have some team members come and have both of you attack it to force it to retreat.
If you keep an eye on the minimap and manage your distance VR's are nothing to be afraid of, especially 1v1. Regular ships outrange VR's and aren't that much slower. Early game, VR damage is negligible, as with all ships. Midgame, With 10 range on your lasers and 11 on missiles you'd easily do 1-2k dmg before a voidray can catch up with you, and your allies will probably be warping in all around you to force it to retreat.
Speed advantage is negligible in most circumstances until they get blink, in which case you have to be more careful. A decent player will always have his/her ship at full speed all the time anyways and 0.1 speed isn't going to do anything if VR is out of range.
VR's "broke the game" in a good way. Everyone has to play completely differently now because now if you get caught with your pants down you have a 100% of dying where as before you could do some cute maneuvering and get away. It puts a lot more emphasis on working as a team. I agree the void ray needs some tweaking but the impact it has on the game is positive imo.
I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah!
On December 16 2010 09:57 Zaraphiston wrote: I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah!
I seem to have problems farming......any tips?
4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps.
Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off.
There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety.
On December 16 2010 07:25 Bowdy wrote: VR's "broke the game" in a good way. Everyone has to play completely differently now because now if you get caught with your pants down you have a 100% of dying where as before you could do some cute maneuvering and get away. It puts a lot more emphasis on working as a team. I agree the void ray needs some tweaking but the impact it has on the game is positive imo.
So wait, removing player's ability to manuever into survivability is a good thing? Removing strategies based on skill is not a good thing, and the Damage output is insane. In the last game I got 3 kills, in the game before that 4 kills, in the game before that 4 kills. While I've managed similar before this time it just comes down to lots of attack upgrades instead of pilot skill. If correctly piloted the ship is unstoppably good and can kill masses of the other ships.
P.S. +.10 speed is huge so stop saying it isn't. Speed is both survivability and killing ability. Even 1 upgrade makes a huge difference. So much so that the change rendered my old kite and kill strategy completely unusable. Again killing strategy diversity.
On December 16 2010 09:57 Zaraphiston wrote: I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah!
I seem to have problems farming......any tips?
4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps.
Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off.
There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety.
On December 16 2010 09:57 Zaraphiston wrote: I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah!
I seem to have problems farming......any tips?
4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps.
Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off.
There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety.
I wish I had five of you in every game.
Maybe the 3 of us should join a party and own a few games :-).
On December 16 2010 09:57 Zaraphiston wrote: I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah!
I seem to have problems farming......any tips?
4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps.
Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off.
There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety.
Personally, I like getting 3 speed, warp, and 1 range as the Carrier. I typically am the first to 100+ kills. That extra range and speed helps soooo much, and 4 lasers only really increases your killing potential by a factor of about 1.5 (usually a 2nd shot is wasted when you get the upgrades vs 3rd shot without, before it targets a different creep).
I did try the 4 laser, 2 speed, warp (or similar setup, instead of getting warp doing something else with the minerals) when I first started playing, but I prefer the extra speed and range instead. It might be a personal thing though.
Kiting ranged void ray build 1) upg range 2) upg plasma cannons upg (regular weapon) 3) nullifies the fragility of void ray by allowing to be on the sides with comparable DPS. 4) way better farming throughout the whole game (u want to keep upgrading plasma cannons, so u will keep up with the HP increase of creeps. destroys is not the only ship where u want regular attack upgs anymore) 5) beam void ray has to go into the fray and chase. they take damage. But ranged plasma cannon void ray isn't on an "HP fuse", but it can keep attacking as long as it doesn't get flanked. the chances of losing HP from flanking is infinitely lower than losing HP by chasing with beam. It's also a lot more work for the other team, and it takes time to flank. 6) Cloak is a decent luxury upgrade for this reason
i've been using this build and i'd say it's way more annoying to other players than the regular beam void ray. with so much maneuverability, it's pretty much like your void ray is on dota speed, while everyone else is on star battle speed.
the only real ways to kill this kind of kiting void ray is by sneaking up on it with another cloaked void ray to chase you down, or vortex and team surround. before you get cloak, which is only late game, regular flanks would kill this void ray as well.
Is the normal playstarbattle site down? i have so many bugs and suggestions.
On December 16 2010 09:57 Zaraphiston wrote: I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah!
I seem to have problems farming......any tips?
4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps.
Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off.
There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety.
Personally, I like getting 3 speed, warp, and 1 range as the Carrier. I typically am the first to 100+ kills. That extra range and speed helps soooo much, and 4 lasers only really increases your killing potential by a factor of about 1.5 (usually a 2nd shot is wasted when you get the upgrades vs 3rd shot without, before it targets a different creep).
I did try the 4 laser, 2 speed, warp (or similar setup, instead of getting warp doing something else with the minerals) when I first started playing, but I prefer the extra speed and range instead. It might be a personal thing though.
It would take me a bit of convincing to accept that ~8% extra range and ~6% extra speed is better for early game farming than halving the number of shots it takes to kill your targets, even if some of those are wasted.
On December 16 2010 10:54 waffling1 wrote: Kiting ranged void ray build 1) upg range 2) upg plasma cannons upg (regular weapon) 3) nullifies the fragility of void ray by allowing to be on the sides with comparable DPS. 4) way better farming throughout the whole game (u want to keep upgrading plasma cannons, so u will keep up with the HP increase of creeps. destroys is not the only ship where u want regular attack upgs anymore) 5) beam void ray has to go into the fray and chase. they take damage. But ranged plasma cannon void ray isn't on an "HP fuse", but it can keep attacking as long as it doesn't get flanked. the chances of losing HP from flanking is infinitely lower than losing HP by chasing with beam. It's also a lot more work for the other team, and it takes time to flank. 6) Cloak is a decent luxury upgrade for this reason
i've been using this build and i'd say it's way more annoying to other players than the regular beam void ray. with so much maneuverability, it's pretty much like your void ray is on dota speed, while everyone else is on star battle speed.
the only real ways to kill this kind of kiting void ray is by sneaking up on it with another cloaked void ray to chase you down, or vortex and team surround. before you get cloak, which is only late game, regular flanks would kill this void ray as well.
Is the normal playstarbattle site down? i have so many bugs and suggestions.
I do a similar build except I start out with 4 laser, 2speed and warp, farm until flux and 3rd speed, then either transition into ranged or put more upgrades into my beam, depending on how the game is playing out. But yeah, it's awesome to get like 11 or 12 range, you can even kite those 15 range siege destroyers 1v1 if they don't upgrade their range because of their lack of vision.
It would take me a bit of convincing to accept that ~8% extra range and ~6% extra speed is better for early game farming than halving the number of shots it takes to kill your targets, even if some of those are wasted.
Heh, you're missing the point. With your normal speed and attack range you can only get into position to kill so many fighters while your starting attack is more than enough to kill as many fighters as you can catch. The range and speed upgrade however allows you attract more fighters from a larger area so you can cover more ground over the same period of time. Increasing the area you can cover is more important than killing individual fighters faster.
It would take me a bit of convincing to accept that ~8% extra range and ~6% extra speed is better for early game farming than halving the number of shots it takes to kill your targets, even if some of those are wasted.
Heh, you're missing the point. With your normal speed and attack range you can only get into position to kill so many fighters while your starting attack is more than enough to kill as many fighters as you can catch. The range and speed upgrade however allows you attract more fighters from a larger area so you can cover more ground over the same period of time. Increasing the area you can cover is more important than killing individual fighters faster.
Well it comes down to what your limiting factor is for getting kills. Don't forget that you're also often competing with your own side's fighters for creep kills, and 2x damage is better for clearing out enemy onboard fighters when you happen to encounter them.
It would take me a bit of convincing to accept that ~8% extra range and ~6% extra speed is better for early game farming than halving the number of shots it takes to kill your targets, even if some of those are wasted.
Heh, you're missing the point. With your normal speed and attack range you can only get into position to kill so many fighters while your starting attack is more than enough to kill as many fighters as you can catch. The range and speed upgrade however allows you attract more fighters from a larger area so you can cover more ground over the same period of time. Increasing the area you can cover is more important than killing individual fighters faster.
Well it comes down to what your limiting factor is for getting kills. Don't forget that you're also often competing with your own side's fighters for creep kills, and 2x damage is better for clearing out enemy onboard fighters when you happen to encounter them.
I'll concede that it isn't clear-cut.
If you're competing with teammates for kills, a longer range and faster speed would help..... Because it would allow you to get kills that they can't.....
It definitely isn't clear cut, and I only tried it because I accidentally got 3 engine ups at the start. I was like "fuck it, lets try range with those last 25", since 1 attack up was pretty useless. I dunno what's ideal, but I definitely think that being faster, even if it isn't as efficient at killing stuff at that point, is a little more versatile.
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I don't understand. We play the game to have fun, not to be competitive. So if it's fun to play, that's all it matters.
If you manage to find some of the better farming patterns in the game, always having the ability to 1shot fighters will give you much more farming potential than any non-ability upgrade.
For instance, just outside the range of the science vessels, on the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening, you can easily move back and forth clearing out 3 rows of fighters, wave after wave.
If you can't push up that far forward, you can clear the two rows on the sides of the map where the outer fighters turn and change directions.
I'm pretty convinced that the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening is the strongest/most versatile build for your average capital ship (don't know about VR/Leviathan). I'm less convinced, but are still experimenting, with going up to 7 laser by 10 min and 11 laser by 20 min in order to keep the 1-shot on fighter farming. Going to 11 laser especially is rough if you are playing a losing game and need some hail mary type of game-play in order to catch up (I think I've turned the tides with nukes more than secured a lead with them).
On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: Cloak is only used to "dodge" specials in high level play.
Nope.
The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
Not stupid at all, since it wasn't only used that way. Doesn't really matter if the author said it was, if it wasn't. Yeah you look pretty stupid now..
On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: And that matters how? Why would I target you?
Uhm..to, like you said..kill me? Which you can't because of it? Hurr durr
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: YOU DID! My godfathers did you read the post you were answering?!
Nope I didn't.
I would ask you to: - read more carefully - learn how to quote - play the game till you have a basic understanding, before you make claims on what is unbeatable and what is not (because right now you add absolutely zero to the thread).
On December 16 2010 15:31 Magic1264 wrote: If you manage to find some of the better farming patterns in the game, always having the ability to 1shot fighters will give you much more farming potential than any non-ability upgrade.
For instance, just outside the range of the science vessels, on the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening, you can easily move back and forth clearing out 3 rows of fighters, wave after wave.
If you can't push up that far forward, you can clear the two rows on the sides of the map where the outer fighters turn and change directions.
I'm pretty convinced that the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening is the strongest/most versatile build for your average capital ship (don't know about VR/Leviathan). I'm less convinced, but are still experimenting, with going up to 7 laser by 10 min and 11 laser by 20 min in order to keep the 1-shot on fighter farming. Going to 11 laser especially is rough if you are playing a losing game and need some hail mary type of game-play in order to catch up (I think I've turned the tides with nukes more than secured a lead with them).
3 Speed + other ups: safer start for farming 2 speed, 4 attack warp = better farming potential but much less safe. If you cross the map and a void decides to ride your ass all the way back you're dead. 3 speed you can generally make it; the 2 speed 4 attack you HAVE to be careful and not get overgreedy and don't wait too long to warp
On December 16 2010 15:31 Magic1264 wrote: If you manage to find some of the better farming patterns in the game, always having the ability to 1shot fighters will give you much more farming potential than any non-ability upgrade.
For instance, just outside the range of the science vessels, on the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening, you can easily move back and forth clearing out 3 rows of fighters, wave after wave.
If you can't push up that far forward, you can clear the two rows on the sides of the map where the outer fighters turn and change directions.
I'm pretty convinced that the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening is the strongest/most versatile build for your average capital ship (don't know about VR/Leviathan). I'm less convinced, but are still experimenting, with going up to 7 laser by 10 min and 11 laser by 20 min in order to keep the 1-shot on fighter farming. Going to 11 laser especially is rough if you are playing a losing game and need some hail mary type of game-play in order to catch up (I think I've turned the tides with nukes more than secured a lead with them).
3 Speed + other ups: safer start for farming 2 speed, 4 attack warp = better farming potential but much less safe. If you cross the map and a void decides to ride your ass all the way back you're dead. 3 speed you can generally make it; the 2 speed 4 attack you HAVE to be careful and not get overgreedy and don't wait too long to warp
So I don't understand (and really this isn't a troll) 3speed > 2sp/4las/warp because you have to play well? 3 speed surely doesn't allow you to push up all the way to enemy science vessels alone; and it won't let you escape if you have 2 or 3 ships on you before you turn around. Even if you have 1.71 speed, 1.61 will still be able to keep up with you for a pretty long time.
All it seems is that 3speed brings you more of a peace of mind rather than actually being that much better than being able 1shot, and thus, to farm a bunch more fighters. Not to mention you can discourage people following you with 4 laser ups (that stuff hurts a ship a lot more than you'd think).
On December 16 2010 15:31 Magic1264 wrote: If you manage to find some of the better farming patterns in the game, always having the ability to 1shot fighters will give you much more farming potential than any non-ability upgrade.
For instance, just outside the range of the science vessels, on the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening, you can easily move back and forth clearing out 3 rows of fighters, wave after wave.
If you can't push up that far forward, you can clear the two rows on the sides of the map where the outer fighters turn and change directions.
I'm pretty convinced that the 4 laser/2speed/warp opening is the strongest/most versatile build for your average capital ship (don't know about VR/Leviathan). I'm less convinced, but are still experimenting, with going up to 7 laser by 10 min and 11 laser by 20 min in order to keep the 1-shot on fighter farming. Going to 11 laser especially is rough if you are playing a losing game and need some hail mary type of game-play in order to catch up (I think I've turned the tides with nukes more than secured a lead with them).
3 Speed + other ups: safer start for farming 2 speed, 4 attack warp = better farming potential but much less safe. If you cross the map and a void decides to ride your ass all the way back you're dead. 3 speed you can generally make it; the 2 speed 4 attack you HAVE to be careful and not get overgreedy and don't wait too long to warp
So I don't understand (and really this isn't a troll) 3speed > 2sp/4las/warp because you have to play well? 3 speed surely doesn't allow you to push up all the way to enemy science vessels alone; and it won't let you escape if you have 2 or 3 ships on you before you turn around. Even if you have 1.71 speed, 1.61 will still be able to keep up with you for a pretty long time.
All it seems is that 3speed brings you more of a peace of mind rather than actually being that much better than being able 1shot, and thus, to farm a bunch more fighters. Not to mention you can discourage people following you with 4 laser ups (that stuff hurts a ship a lot more than you'd think).
The difference is if someone with 1.71 speed comes in your field of vision, typically cutting you off, you cannot escape. When you are on the opponent side of the map your 1.61 speed will not cut it, esp if more people warp to the person chasing you. 1.71 you can always get away provided you always stay moving (so you don't decelerate) and start running soon as someone appears.
Personally I prefer 2 speed/4 weapon ups but admittantly organised aggressive teams have costed me my life several times where I could've successfully ran with 1.71 It's a small difference but it can be noticable.
usually try to farm till ~600 then go back, get 1.71, rapid regen, movement buff and up mana to 300 (and 1 up into rapid regen) then go back to farming, but if the other team is agressive its not uncommon to have to return after 300-400 and not get all the upgrades right away just to get speed/rapid regen for safer farming
Don't go for gimmicks. Seriously. 4la/2s/warp opening is best. If you're out of position, 1.71 is not going to save you any more than 1.6. Stay in position and you'll be fine and get more kills.
Anyone have an tips/starting points for a very new player?
I've played a couple of games, but I don't really feel like I know what's going on a lot of the time. I feel like I'm always hurting my team more than helping, so I'd like to get a bit better. Unfortunately, I haven't encountered anyone in-game that could/was willing to help out a newbie.
On December 17 2010 10:46 jaearess wrote: Anyone have an tips/starting points for a very new player?
I've played a couple of games, but I don't really feel like I know what's going on a lot of the time. I feel like I'm always hurting my team more than helping, so I'd like to get a bit better. Unfortunately, I haven't encountered anyone in-game that could/was willing to help out a newbie.
1. Always be moving: you never want to be caught at a dead stop when enemies come into vision range. More particularly, you want to learn the tight turning shown in the video above. The value of making sharper turns than your opponents is immeasurable.
2. Focus on a build. A lot of people have weaker ships because they get energy upgrades, and then an offensive technique, and then they want to upgrade missles/range; essentially they are all over the place. The only things you should weave into any build are speed (you'll usually max out at 1.8, but 1.7 will be good for any build most of the game), and keeping your lasers strong enough to 1-shot fighters (what this boils down to is open with 4 lasers, upgrade to 7 lasers by the 10 min mark, 11 by the 20min, and i think 15? at the 30min).
I still question whether its worth it to get 11 and 15, but going up to 7 will bring you much more money/pay for itself than any other upgrade up to that point.
3. Always be watching the mini-map. Because of the number of fighters on the field, fog of war doesn't really help much with concealing Capital Ship movements; so if you are vigilantly watching the mini-map, you will always know where your opponents are.
4. Always decide what you are going to do whenever you encounter an enemy ship. I've seen people flounder about trying to decide whether to try and chase and kill, or retreat/farm. Remember, it takes ships forever to maneuver, so one mistaken turn could potentially be game ending, even though it may not seem like it at the time.
Hope this helps a bit. Its an easy game to pick up and much more enjoyable once you get some of the basic maneuvers down, allowing you to find other teams and really work at the strategy aspect of the game.
Another tip is to always pin the map to alert your mates if you need immediate assistance or if you see a teammate in trouble or if you find a lone farmer that is an easy kill
If a mate is in bad health and is being chased, warp in and protect.
Don't go solo hero and try to hunt down a lone ship by yourself. You will get killed. Stay with the pack until you have better understanding of the game.
Prioritize farming fighters for money whenever you can. As the game goes on, it's all about upgrades and who makes the first stupid mistake.
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
Not stupid at all, since it wasn't only used that way. Doesn't really matter if the author said it was, if it wasn't. Yeah you look pretty stupid now..
When is Cloak used for something else than dodging nuking abilities? If you just cloak in the middle of a fight I'll just fire at the guy next to you.
I don't know who you're playing against, but I mostly face organized teams who believe that solid pushes is the way to go.
I want to put together a team that doesn't consists of members of www.playstarbattle.com, who are either bad or are 13. PM me to apply. You should have a solid grasp of the basics of the game. Also, Vent and a mic.
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
Not stupid at all, since it wasn't only used that way. Doesn't really matter if the author said it was, if it wasn't. Yeah you look pretty stupid now..
What the hell is cloak good for besides using it as a desperation dodge move?
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
Not stupid at all, since it wasn't only used that way. Doesn't really matter if the author said it was, if it wasn't. Yeah you look pretty stupid now..
What the hell is cloak good for besides using it as a desperation dodge move?
It's an energy-expensive way to buy time for yourself to escape (any fool can follow your silhouette, but it would reduce the time you are open to fire before you can hide behind allies or your base).
Edit: Not that I personally ever use cloak, but it'd be silly to deny its 'strategic breadth'.
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
Not stupid at all, since it wasn't only used that way. Doesn't really matter if the author said it was, if it wasn't. Yeah you look pretty stupid now..
What the hell is cloak good for besides using it as a desperation dodge move?
It's an energy-expensive way to buy time for yourself to escape (any fool can follow your silhouette, but it would reduce the time you are open to fire before you can hide behind allies or your base).
Edit: Not that I personally ever use cloak, but it'd be silly to deny its 'strategic breadth'.
It's an energy-expensive way to buy time for yourself to escape (any fool can follow your silhouette, but it would reduce the time you are open to fire before you can hide behind allies or your base).
Edit: Not that I personally ever use cloak, but it'd be silly to deny its 'strategic breadth'.
Buying time in itself is a good reason, but it's more useful than that. If you're chasing the opponent it limits the amount of damage you take so you're in a tougher position when it is time to retreat. Similarly in a large fight. It buys you free time to fire on your opponent without taking fire. It's like 10 seconds of free damage.
On December 16 2010 19:16 Edmon wrote: The author will shortly be removing cloak from the carrier because "It is only used to dodge specials" and "It will be replaced with something for interceptors". God how stupid do you look now?
Not stupid at all, since it wasn't only used that way. Doesn't really matter if the author said it was, if it wasn't. Yeah you look pretty stupid now..
What the hell is cloak good for besides using it as a desperation dodge move?
It's an energy-expensive way to buy time for yourself to escape (any fool can follow your silhouette, but it would reduce the time you are open to fire before you can hide behind allies or your base).
Edit: Not that I personally ever use cloak, but it'd be silly to deny its 'strategic breadth'.
That pretty much is the same thing.
Ok, this was an issue of me interpreting 'desperation move' as special-dodging.
It still effectively makes you invulnerable for a short period of time (barring emp/nuke splash).
If you go straight up DPS void ray, then cloak wouldn't be too bad of an idea. You either need to pump a lot of def, or you just need that skill to bale your ass out. With 11k starting hp, I'd go for the cloak.
Blink may also be good, has anyone tried it yet? I'm shying away from it a bit since it's only 4 range. I guess if you upgrade range, it might be worth it.
You guys are making a lot of mistakes in reguards to cloak but it's not apparent why it's bad as a "10 second escape" so I will explain.
Cloak is expensive, I think we can all agree on that. If you put that money into armour, you will negate any "free" 10 second period someone is cloaked (and it'll help against dps from all other sources). Not just because armour reduces passive DPS, but it also reduces special dps (for example, armour knocks 10 damage of off each plasma barrage hit). Cloak never allows someone to "sneak off" because the ship is HUGE LIKE XBOX and you can see the wobble 1000 miles away.
So, if you can just get armour, why would a good player ever go cloak? Good question, glad you asked it.
If you are a spell caster carrier, you can't really afford to stack up armour. However, If you "tap" cloak, it will cause specials targetting you (such as yamato, barrage, etc) to fail. This is great, because going cloak means you won't need armour/weapons and you can focus on energy/abilities. If you have energy as a caster, you'll want to save that for feedback and barrage as your primary source of dps.
Cloak is used therefore, in high level play as a get out of the shit free card for specials. Naturally, castercarriers will favour vortex later on, but that move is more expensive and has a prohibitive cooldown. If a carry caster desperately needs to escape and vortex is on cooldown, generally the strategy is to endure by spamming the shield restore ability with a few cooldown upgrades. This benefits the team as well, since you are soaking up damage so other players nearby don't have to.
Version 2.89 changes: - Capital ships have now a command that allows to deploy onboard fighters easily - Onboard fighters are now displayed on the weapons panel - Carrier - Cloak was replaced by the Warp In Interceptors ability - Carrier - Carrier Capacity was replaced by the Graviton Catapult - Carrier - Vortex costs now 400 minerals and has 3 minutes cooldown - Destroyer - Magnetic Mines deal now 600 damage and can be detonated manually - Destroyer - minimal range of the Gauss Cannon was reduced to 2 - Void Ray - Energy Nova radius was increased - Void Ray - Charge now additionally increases damage dealt by Purifier Beam - Void Ray - Blink costs now 75 energy to use - Void Ray - Abilities are now slightly cheaper - Void Ray - Prismatic Beam and Purifier Beam can no longer target a Point Defense Drone
I only play the Void Ray but I'm glad to see Energy Nova get buffed, that was a useless spell, although I miss being able to snipe PDDs. Also glad to see that Carriers can no longer cloak and that Vortex was mega-nerfed.
Carrier interceptors are completely broken, but they've already nerfed warp in interceptors mana cost and reduced the max capacity to 15. I still think it's too strong but it takes a little longer to reach god-mode status now. I've been all-killing teams with interceptor abuse all day today.
On December 20 2010 12:27 baconbits wrote: They need to implement a max chase distance for interceptors/ship fighters.
Them chasing across more than half the map is pretty rediculous and just downright feels broken.
They deal hardly any noticeable damage, and its quite easy to get higher MS than them.
Plus lasers=dead interceptors
On the contrary, unless you are dumping all of your money into armor upgrade, they deal a fuck ton of damage. 15 interceptors doing 18 damages each. Every interceptor upgrade = 15*3=45 damage increase. The chance is that at least couple of your teammates wouldn't really bother to dump money into armor and they will be fried alive, leaving you with your 8+ armor upgrade against 6 ships.
Laser upgrade is only good assuming it's not firing at enemy ships. The only way to deal with fully upgraded interceptors are area effect spells.
On December 20 2010 10:17 karlmengsk wrote: I only play the Void Ray but I'm glad to see Energy Nova get buffed, that was a useless spell, although I miss being able to snipe PDDs. Also glad to see that Carriers can no longer cloak and that Vortex was mega-nerfed.
Oh ho ho, look who saw these changes coming a mile away 3 weeks ago .
On the contrary, unless you are dumping all of your money into armor upgrade, they deal a fuck ton of damage. 15 interceptors doing 18 damages each. Every interceptor upgrade = 15*3=45 damage increase. The chance is that at least couple of your teammates wouldn't really bother to dump money into armor and they will be fried alive, leaving you with your 8+ armor upgrade against 6 ships.
Interceptors are now annoying, but not effective in any way against decent players for the reasons above. Not to mention how fast they die to tentacles. I'm still looking to get more players together for a TL community organized team - PM me.
LOL at you people saying the upgraded interceptors die fast to tentacles????
interceptors with 12 armor, upgraded hp, doing 60 damage per shot times 15 interceptors, I had level 16 tentacle ups and still couldn't kill the fucking things fast enough.
Oh... you're probably talking about them during first 5-10 minutes of the game.
Once they get them to level 15 or so with 15+ armor and an extra 75 hp, they are downright absofuckinglutely retarded. Add in the fact that they got buffed so 60% of people are now playing interceptor carriers, getting 45-60 chasing you means you die.
edit:
aoe abilities (eg, acid spray, storm, etc) are a necessity if more then 1 carrier out...
and I don't mind them (imo) being powerful, but they need to have a max chasing distance or range they can reach from the carrier. Chasing into opponents mothership while their cap ship is on the opposite side of the map is just retarded.
On December 21 2010 05:20 baconbits wrote: LOL at you people saying the upgraded interceptors die fast to tentacles????
interceptors with 12 armor, upgraded hp, doing 60 damage per shot times 15 interceptors, I had level 16 tentacle ups and still couldn't kill the fucking things fast enough.
Oh... you're probably talking about them during first 5-10 minutes of the game.
Once they get them to level 15 or so with 15+ armor and an extra 75 hp, they are downright absofuckinglutely retarded. Add in the fact that they got buffed so 60% of people are now playing interceptor carriers, getting 45-60 chasing you means you die.
11+ tentacle is the most common thing in the world late game to begin with. I'm not talking about 5-10 minutes. Also, see Edmon's school for the bit about a) surviving them with armor and b) not having 45-60 chase you at once with good movement.
I don't really find the fighter builds to be that scary as long as you are aware that someone in the other team is doing such a build. As long as most people on your team have the aoe skill then it shouldn't be that bad. I lose a lot of teammates to the build but I haven't really had too much trouble with it so far, and I personally still don't really find a good reason to use it over the laser/armor + storm/feedback builds that I've been using before this patch.
On December 20 2010 10:17 karlmengsk wrote: I only play the Void Ray but I'm glad to see Energy Nova get buffed, that was a useless spell, although I miss being able to snipe PDDs. Also glad to see that Carriers can no longer cloak and that Vortex was mega-nerfed.
Oh ho ho, look who saw these changes coming a mile away 3 weeks ago .
On the contrary, unless you are dumping all of your money into armor upgrade, they deal a fuck ton of damage. 15 interceptors doing 18 damages each. Every interceptor upgrade = 15*3=45 damage increase. The chance is that at least couple of your teammates wouldn't really bother to dump money into armor and they will be fried alive, leaving you with your 8+ armor upgrade against 6 ships.
I think you are missing my point. While armor upgrades, micro control and well placed splash attack can negate interceptors, the chance is that your team is made up of you, one or two skilled players, and the rest are consist of inexperienced ones, the vulnerable sector.
The fact does not change. An interceptor build deals insane amount of DPS, enough to tip the balance of power within the first couple skirmishes.
I don't really find it all that different from how like half your team would die in the first five minutes to obnoxious flux + speed first void ray builds when void rays first came out. Bad players will die to pretty much anything anyway.
On December 21 2010 07:16 koreasilver wrote: I don't really find it all that different from how like half your team would die in the first five minutes to obnoxious flux + speed first void ray builds when void rays first came out. Bad players will die to pretty much anything anyway.
Flux + speed first void rays take 500 years to kill you though?
On December 21 2010 07:16 koreasilver wrote: I don't really find it all that different from how like half your team would die in the first five minutes to obnoxious flux + speed first void ray builds when void rays first came out. Bad players will die to pretty much anything anyway.
I found playing the Voidray to be annoying, in the sense that I can't actually dish out any DPS until I got some proper farming done. The initial damage output of Voidray is pretty pathetic. Unless the opponent is truly horrendous, Voidray has little relevance to the earlier stages of the game. Theoretically a coordinated Voidray team is OP. But face it, how many times have you seen your mates coordinating with you in an average game?
Void ray builds that go straight into attempting ganking is always really horrible and unless your opponent has a lot of really bad players and not lose ships then that void ray becomes quickly useless. The thing is, people really -are- that horrendous and when void rays first came out lots of people died to void rays in the first few minutes regardless of coordination of the opposing team.
What I'm saying is that these same bad players are always going to die to stupid things regardless of what they are. The fighter carrier builds that people are using after the recent patch is kinda the same thing, to my eyes. It has weaknesses and with some proper responses they can be dealt with. Just like how people used to totally underestimate void ray gank builds and wouldn't run when they see one (people really need to check upgrades on other ships), people are just dying to the new fighter builds because they don't know what they're doing. Once people get used to it I think people will die much less absurdly than they are right now against fighter carrier builds.
On December 21 2010 05:20 baconbits wrote: LOL at you people saying the upgraded interceptors die fast to tentacles????
interceptors with 12 armor, upgraded hp, doing 60 damage per shot times 15 interceptors, I had level 16 tentacle ups and still couldn't kill the fucking things fast enough.
Oh... you're probably talking about them during first 5-10 minutes of the game.
Once they get them to level 15 or so with 15+ armor and an extra 75 hp, they are downright absofuckinglutely retarded. Add in the fact that they got buffed so 60% of people are now playing interceptor carriers, getting 45-60 chasing you means you die.
11+ tentacle is the most common thing in the world late game to begin with. I'm not talking about 5-10 minutes. Also, see Edmon's school for the bit about a) surviving them with armor and b) not having 45-60 chase you at once with good movement.
Your "guide" even mentions how ineffective armor ups is for leviathan, which you seemed to have forgotten about, and even sticking in a group, having 45 interceptors on the same focus fired person is not uncommon, neither is having pug team mates who don't know how to aoe. 1 person aoeing (esp a non-instant aoe) is not sufficient for that many interceptors.
Also, carriers can warp them in, and can be quite distant from target provided they have sight. interceptors were UP before, OP now, will likely get toned down again. Don't try to act like they aren't a bit imbalanced in current state. And they are a hell of a lot cheaper then any other build due to requiring less upgrades and not relying on energy at all... they easily outdamage bile swarm/missiles after a few upgrades and you also don't have to worry about upping range due to the fact they can follow as far as they survive.
On December 21 2010 07:38 koreasilver wrote: Void ray builds that go straight into attempting ganking is always really horrible and unless your opponent has a lot of really bad players and not lose ships then that void ray becomes quickly useless. The thing is, people really -are- that horrendous and when void rays first came out lots of people died to void rays in the first few minutes regardless of coordination of the opposing team.
What I'm saying is that these same bad players are always going to die to stupid things regardless of what they are. The fighter carrier builds that people are using after the recent patch is kinda the same thing, to my eyes. It has weaknesses and with some proper responses they can be dealt with. Just like how people used to totally underestimate void ray gank builds and wouldn't run when they see one (people really need to check upgrades on other ships), people are just dying to the new fighter builds because they don't know what they're doing. Once people get used to it I think people will die much less absurdly than they are right now against fighter carrier builds.
Ha, my first experience with the interceptor build was pretty hilarious. I had no idea about the patch and didn't read the notes when I played my first post-patch game. It was when carriers can still carry up to 20 interceptors at a time. While besieging the enemy base, one enemy carrier with 12 upgrades in interceptor launched all 20 buggies at me. They literally chased me across the entire map. Despite in green health when I started fleeing, they killed me right before I reached the base. I killed 19 interceptors with my 4 laser upgrades. The last interceptor killed me before dying to the Prism plasma ball. Despite repeatedly pinning the map, none of my teammates warped in to help, likely because I was attacked by not a ship, but 20 interceptors hot on my ass.
My "proper" Voidray strategy is taking Warp, 3 speed upgrades and one range, and then just go ninja farm. Watch the minimap like a hawk and run like hell if you see a hint of enemy. Upgrade laser for farming, get cloak, flux, shield armor, armor and everything else into energy, cloak upgrade and damage upgrade.
With enough upgrades, the Voidray can hunt any injured ship down with ease.
The problem is, of course, you have no deciding power in the outcome of the earlier skirmishes. If your mates decide to suicide, not much you can do about it. If you ditch farming to babysit your teammates, an under-upgraded voidray is just a drag to the team, not contributing enough DPS to be noticeable and not enough HP to tank even the interceptors. Worse yet, your speed advantage is not even guaranteed to be a survival tool as enemy voidrays can keep pace with you.
Oh right, and pray to god that the enemy team is composed of dumbass who don't know what an EMP is.
Lost so many games with Void, that I stopped using it.
Haha, I didn't get to play during the 20 interceptor phase because of exams.
While besieging the enemy base, one enemy carrier with 12 upgrades in interceptor launched all 20 buggies at me. They literally chased me across the entire map. Despite in green health when I started fleeing, they killed me right before I reached the base. I killed 19 interceptors with my 4 laser upgrades. The last interceptor killed me before dying to the Prism plasma ball.
This made me lol though. I'd rage pretty hard if that happened to me.
@The argument that since there are pub teammates who can't deal with interceptors, they are good.
I don't see the point in discussing balance for pub-level gameplay. What if SC2 was patched for Bronze to low Diamond players? Inteceptors might have their niche, but they will always be a gimmick that cannot carry a team nor lead to them dominating tournament play.
Because there are no chat channels devoted to Star Battle or a competitive scene, it's hard to judge either balance or longevity, because we can only determine how fun it is for the casual/pub scene.
Hopefully the next patch will better reveal balance issues.
On December 22 2010 06:30 Ryalnos wrote: Because there are no chat channels devoted to Star Battle or a competitive scene, it's hard to judge either balance or longevity, because we can only determine how fun it is for the casual/pub scene.
Hopefully the next patch will better reveal balance issues.
this.
Most people don't have premade teams setup, or coordinate on IRC with other premades since there is no ingame chat/meeting ground.
faster/easier and little other option beyond hitting join game and clicking star battle. And since there is no matchmaking, whoever joins is who you get.
This is definitely the best custom game right now. Have you guys thought about adding side towers or making lanes? I think things like asteroids or natural obstacles would increase the positioning in it.
I go with 4 lasers into interceptor with graviton beam. then 7 lasers and finally missile. my aim is to get 7 in all 3 weapons. graviton beam is such a good upgrade because you can launch all your interceptors without losing your momentum and with less laser/missile DPS loss since it's faster to launch
cutelittlescv's Energy Void Ray: 1.71 movement speed Energy Nova 225/225 energy ---[~600-800minerals]--- 1.81 movement speed Purifier Beam Charge 325/325 energy ---[~600-800minerals]--- 1.91 movement speed [as to the following get whichever is important first] Blink Cloak 425/425 energy ---[~600-800minerals]--- Shields: 1 Plating: 1 Shields: 2 Plating: 2 Shields: 3 Plating: 3 Shields: 4 Plating: 4 Shields: 5 Plating: 5 etc, etc
HUGE economic advantage early game. In addition, provides protection from those annoying Carrier-Interceptor builds.Kill enemy wraiths, interceptors, mutalisks, phoenixes, etc, etc
People click on my Void Ray and wonder where all the upgrades into Prismatic Beam, Plasma Disrupters, etc, etc, but as soon as they see Purifier Beam (combined with Charge) it's game.
I ordinarily don't upgrade Prismatic Beam, seeing that it must be combined with Charge, speed dmg upgrades, etc. Purifier Beam is a no brainer for me.
I will comment on the build assuming that this is not meant purely as an anti-interceptor build.
1. Lasers > energy nova early on. 2. Purifier beam is not really that strong and is the weakest of the energy-drain abilities. Prismatic beam is the most cost effective dps in the game (+18% damage per upgrade) and has great synergy with charge. 3. Blink+cloak+high speed ups+shield+plating is too much money spent on safety. Rely more on game sense and channel that money into being useful to the team.
On January 01 2011 09:09 DoomGuy wrote: So guys, are long range builds worth it, and if so, could you please give me some tips or even an actual build order on how to do it?
I swear by long range builds, they are probably the most powerful solo build. Only beatable if you are caught off-guard or probably a very specific ship-sniping voidray build. Late-game if your farming advantage is good enough you can 1v3 easy.
-Start with 4 laser, 2 engine, wait for 50 minerals to buy warp. -Warp to farthest ship -Try to farm as much as possible, support teammates, etc. -Run away from fights, prioritize chasing groups of creeps -Don't go solo farming near the enemy, any good team will just surround you and that's the end. -Once you have about 500-600 minerals, warp back. Get 2 engine, warp cooldown, 5 range -repeat farming, saving stupid team-mates, support duty until you have 500-600 minerals again -warp back, get lvl 8 laser, rest into range -repeat farming, saving stupid team-mates, support duty until you have 500-600 minerals again -more range, maybe lvl 12 laser. Aim for 11-12 laser range -Once you have 12 laser and range of 11-12, time to start pumping missiles. Get 8 missiles and pump missile attack. Raise laser to 16 if creeps are getting stronger.
-If you find you have 12-16 laser, 12 range, and missile upgrades but the enemy hasn't lost, invest in psi storm and energy ups to farm even faster.
Playstyle:You get better range and better vision than your enemies. Until you have 12 laser and 11-12 laser, you will be playing purely support and concentrating on farming. You'll farm faster than almost everyone else so you'll have a lot of money. Unless you're ganging up on a lone enemy ship, you probably won't make any ship kills until 400-500 creep kills.
Anti-ship tactics: Range is your first and last line of defense. Always run away before enemy closes to missile range, and control your distance so that you are firing at them, but they are not firing at you. If they turn towards you, you turn away from them, etc. If they chase, run. Do not pursue enemy ships unless a) you have a sure kill or b) you have started on your missile upgrades. Range builds are essentially glass cannons since you have little to no armor. However, you will also be able to melt enemies and put on pressure at extreme range, allowing you to deny creeping to 2-3 enemies at once. If they persist on staying, you can whittle them down and even kill them.
Yeah, forgot to mention that carriers are optimal due to warp cooldown and storm. Battlecruisers and Destroyers also work just fine until late-game. by 8 missiles I mean how many you fire. Most of the time you'll buy the 50, 100, and 200 mineral upgrades but not the 400 mineral upgrade.
Hey again! I just released Star Battle commentary. It's not the best since I've never done this before, but it may help some newer players, or even some of the experienced ones to understand the basic principles and a few strategies in SB. Hope you'll enjoy it!
I love early farmers. They die very quickly in my games.
The best strat imo is to stick together, driving a wedge through their team which will become disorganized, then you farm their front and make a timely retreat. Earn your farming, don't get out of position, and it's hard to lose a ship.
But mostly it's just fun and not worrying too much about strategy. My favorite build is Battlecruiser>3 speed ups> infinite ranged yamato. I am the warp prism slayer.
On January 01 2011 09:09 DoomGuy wrote: So guys, are long range builds worth it, and if so, could you please give me some tips or even an actual build order on how to do it?
I swear by long range builds, they are probably the most powerful solo build. Only beatable if you are caught off-guard or probably a very specific ship-sniping voidray build. Late-game if your farming advantage is good enough you can 1v3 easy.
-Start with 4 laser, 2 engine, wait for 50 minerals to buy warp. -Warp to farthest ship -Try to farm as much as possible, support teammates, etc. -Run away from fights, prioritize chasing groups of creeps -Don't go solo farming near the enemy, any good team will just surround you and that's the end. -Once you have about 500-600 minerals, warp back. Get 2 engine, warp cooldown, 5 range -repeat farming, saving stupid team-mates, support duty until you have 500-600 minerals again -warp back, get lvl 8 laser, rest into range -repeat farming, saving stupid team-mates, support duty until you have 500-600 minerals again -more range, maybe lvl 12 laser. Aim for 11-12 laser range -Once you have 12 laser and range of 11-12, time to start pumping missiles. Get 8 missiles and pump missile attack. Raise laser to 16 if creeps are getting stronger.
-If you find you have 12-16 laser, 12 range, and missile upgrades but the enemy hasn't lost, invest in psi storm and energy ups to farm even faster.
Playstyle:You get better range and better vision than your enemies. Until you have 12 laser and 11-12 laser, you will be playing purely support and concentrating on farming. You'll farm faster than almost everyone else so you'll have a lot of money. Unless you're ganging up on a lone enemy ship, you probably won't make any ship kills until 400-500 creep kills.
Anti-ship tactics: Range is your first and last line of defense. Always run away before enemy closes to missile range, and control your distance so that you are firing at them, but they are not firing at you. If they turn towards you, you turn away from them, etc. If they chase, run. Do not pursue enemy ships unless a) you have a sure kill or b) you have started on your missile upgrades. Range builds are essentially glass cannons since you have little to no armor. However, you will also be able to melt enemies and put on pressure at extreme range, allowing you to deny creeping to 2-3 enemies at once. If they persist on staying, you can whittle them down and even kill them.
Sometimes you have to invest in Feedback in your build. Your build probably works in a game full of nubs, but against any slightly more organized teams you are screwed.
It can be pretty fun to rush to nuke and cannons for the destroyer and pile on the damage to opponents who overextend themselves. Have a few teammates nearby and go for the kill.
The only problem I have with long range laser+missile build is that it's inefficient for raising kill count. Your mates can easily steal the kill with special attacks. Theoretically you can buy the plasma barrage along with other upgrades. But in the end a caster carrier is still more specialized in getting the kill counts to yourself.
The greatest excitement in Star Battle, for me at least, is competing with your mates for kill counts. It's all about timing. I even managed to get all 6 kills in one game. xD
Long range lasers don't shoot creeps, they shoot players inside their range.
Using said knowledge, you can abuse the build's targetting priority and greatly reduce its effectiveness (they either have to kill you in their range, or they are unable to farm).
1 armor counters 1 laser, and 1 interceptor upgrade, that does not include the utility of ceptors tanking damage, or high lasers 1-2 shotting creeps.
On January 02 2011 06:39 dukethegold wrote: The only problem I have with long range laser+missile build is that it's inefficient for raising kill count. Your mates can easily steal the kill with special attacks. Theoretically you can buy the plasma barrage along with other upgrades. But in the end a caster carrier is still more specialized in getting the kill counts to yourself.
The greatest excitement in Star Battle, for me at least, is competing with your mates for kill counts. It's all about timing. I even managed to get all 6 kills in one game. xD
The three tracked stats are games played, wins, and kills so it makes sense to killwhore ;p.
On January 02 2011 06:39 dukethegold wrote: The only problem I have with long range laser+missile build is that it's inefficient for raising kill count. Your mates can easily steal the kill with special attacks. Theoretically you can buy the plasma barrage along with other upgrades. But in the end a caster carrier is still more specialized in getting the kill counts to yourself.
The greatest excitement in Star Battle, for me at least, is competing with your mates for kill counts. It's all about timing. I even managed to get all 6 kills in one game. xD
True and false.
Vast majority of time if games are short and you can't rack up the 400 creep kills required to get missiles and switch from farming to ship killing, you'll only get ship kills by being lucky. But once you get 400 kills, and from experience I know this build will let you farm faster than other people, you'll be able to rack up ship kills like nobody's business. I've often killed 3-5 ships in late games with range.
Barrage is decent, I'd count it more as a support attack than a ship killing attack. It'll let you deal a lot of damage without investing in lasers and missiles. However, since it's not a single big attack but many small ones there's still possibility of kill-steal via laser/missile. Also, you stop moving and charge up, so if you don't kill the enemy you've basically got no chance to chase him down.
Laser/missile/range is fantastic all-round for survivability and offense in pubbie games or carrying your team. If you're playing a specialist in an arranged team, all the more power to you.
Vast majority of time if games are short and you can't rack up the 400 creep kills required to get missiles and switch from farming to ship killing, you'll only get ship kills by being lucky. But once you get 400 kills, and from experience I know this build will let you farm faster than other people, you'll be able to rack up ship kills like nobody's business. I've often killed 3-5 ships in late games with range.
Barrage is decent, I'd count it more as a support attack than a ship killing attack. It'll let you deal a lot of damage without investing in lasers and missiles. However, since it's not a single big attack but many small ones there's still possibility of kill-steal via laser/missile. Also, you stop moving and charge up, so if you don't kill the enemy you've basically got no chance to chase him down.
Laser/missile/range is fantastic all-round for survivability and offense in pubbie games or carrying your team. If you're playing a specialist in an arranged team, all the more power to you.
Or, counter it by going ceptors/wraith/muta. Enough of those effects your ability to farm creep, and the best part about it, is you can be nowhere nearby, and still harass em. Think of it as a PDD that shoots back =)
To farm well, you only really need enough laser ups to 1/2 shot creeps (4 at the start, 5 after the 2nd up to 2 shot, 6 or 7 after the 3rd... ect). Range is icing on the cake, or ups that you didn't need on armor.
On January 03 2011 15:36 bronzeterran wrote: So little talk of early teamwork and positioning. If you're farming and haven't earned it by superior maneuvering, ur doing it wrong.
It depends on whether you're playing "solo", assuming most of your allies/enemies are mediocre.
On January 02 2011 06:39 dukethegold wrote: The only problem I have with long range laser+missile build is that it's inefficient for raising kill count. Your mates can easily steal the kill with special attacks. Theoretically you can buy the plasma barrage along with other upgrades. But in the end a caster carrier is still more specialized in getting the kill counts to yourself.
The greatest excitement in Star Battle, for me at least, is competing with your mates for kill counts. It's all about timing. I even managed to get all 6 kills in one game. xD
True and false.
Vast majority of time if games are short and you can't rack up the 400 creep kills required to get missiles and switch from farming to ship killing, you'll only get ship kills by being lucky. But once you get 400 kills, and from experience I know this build will let you farm faster than other people, you'll be able to rack up ship kills like nobody's business. I've often killed 3-5 ships in late games with range.
Barrage is decent, I'd count it more as a support attack than a ship killing attack. It'll let you deal a lot of damage without investing in lasers and missiles. However, since it's not a single big attack but many small ones there's still possibility of kill-steal via laser/missile. Also, you stop moving and charge up, so if you don't kill the enemy you've basically got no chance to chase him down.
Laser/missile/range is fantastic all-round for survivability and offense in pubbie games or carrying your team. If you're playing a specialist in an arranged team, all the more power to you.
Hehe...who said that a caster steals kills with barrage? It's feedback that I use the most...
lets just make a rule that noobs can't play the game until they have read through some of this thread and learned at least a decent amount about the game. I've had too many people ask me, "How do you get those special attacks?", or "How do you kill someone?".
With that being said, I love the range build on the battlecruiser. I usually get the yamato to finish off enemies though.
I'm preatty new to this custom map but it took me like a nuclear blast! I just love it XD Its a bit premature to tell about the ballance but i see lot of possabilities still with this custom map ( i'd preffer game mod more tough ) to increase the variaty. Ship Vise we could have more.
Zerg -Leviathan -Brood Lord ( it's throws zergs so i can imagen a large version of it ) -Swarm Lord ( If i remember correct, its not used in the game, but in the editor you can find it, its a long snake like zerg flyer )
Could have basicly one hard nuts ship for browling, an long range support ship, and one specialist which more of special abilities then standard cannons. Raven, detects cloacked ships and perharps have the ability to repair friendly ships or the Warp Prism Ship, able to teleport friendly units to its location like the mothership, be able to save friendlies from death and so on.
On January 01 2011 09:09 DoomGuy wrote: So guys, are long range builds worth it, and if so, could you please give me some tips or even an actual build order on how to do it?
I swear by long range builds, they are probably the most powerful solo build. Only beatable if you are caught off-guard or probably a very specific ship-sniping voidray build. Late-game if your farming advantage is good enough you can 1v3 easy.
-Start with 4 laser, 2 engine, wait for 50 minerals to buy warp. -Warp to farthest ship -Try to farm as much as possible, support teammates, etc. -Run away from fights, prioritize chasing groups of creeps -Don't go solo farming near the enemy, any good team will just surround you and that's the end. -Once you have about 500-600 minerals, warp back. Get 2 engine, warp cooldown, 5 range -repeat farming, saving stupid team-mates, support duty until you have 500-600 minerals again -warp back, get lvl 8 laser, rest into range -repeat farming, saving stupid team-mates, support duty until you have 500-600 minerals again -more range, maybe lvl 12 laser. Aim for 11-12 laser range -Once you have 12 laser and range of 11-12, time to start pumping missiles. Get 8 missiles and pump missile attack. Raise laser to 16 if creeps are getting stronger.
-If you find you have 12-16 laser, 12 range, and missile upgrades but the enemy hasn't lost, invest in psi storm and energy ups to farm even faster.
Playstyle:You get better range and better vision than your enemies. Until you have 12 laser and 11-12 laser, you will be playing purely support and concentrating on farming. You'll farm faster than almost everyone else so you'll have a lot of money. Unless you're ganging up on a lone enemy ship, you probably won't make any ship kills until 400-500 creep kills.
Anti-ship tactics: Range is your first and last line of defense. Always run away before enemy closes to missile range, and control your distance so that you are firing at them, but they are not firing at you. If they turn towards you, you turn away from them, etc. If they chase, run. Do not pursue enemy ships unless a) you have a sure kill or b) you have started on your missile upgrades. Range builds are essentially glass cannons since you have little to no armor. However, you will also be able to melt enemies and put on pressure at extreme range, allowing you to deny creeping to 2-3 enemies at once. If they persist on staying, you can whittle them down and even kill them.
On January 05 2011 19:38 Ice4smaster wrote: I'm preatty new to this custom map but it took me like a nuclear blast! I just love it XD Its a bit premature to tell about the ballance but i see lot of possabilities still with this custom map ( i'd preffer game mod more tough ) to increase the variaty. Ship Vise we could have more.
Zerg -Leviathan -Brood Lord ( it's throws zergs so i can imagen a large version of it ) -Swarm Lord ( If i remember correct, its not used in the game, but in the editor you can find it, its a long snake like zerg flyer )
Could have basicly one hard nuts ship for browling, an long range support ship, and one specialist which more of special abilities then standard cannons. Raven, detects cloacked ships and perharps have the ability to repair friendly ships or the Warp Prism Ship, able to teleport friendly units to its location like the mothership, be able to save friendlies from death and so on.
Would be neat see similiar things appear too!
You could also use that Hercules ship for a model. That would look better than a Raven IMHO.
On January 02 2011 03:49 bronzeterran wrote: I love early farmers. They die very quickly in my games.
The best strat imo is to stick together, driving a wedge through their team which will become disorganized, then you farm their front and make a timely retreat. Earn your farming, don't get out of position, and it's hard to lose a ship.
But mostly it's just fun and not worrying too much about strategy. My favorite build is Battlecruiser>3 speed ups> infinite ranged yamato. I am the warp prism slayer.
The best strategy early seems to be denying your opponent any chance for group farming. If you can control the center early, chances are you are already winning.
I just played this game and had a lot of fun. I have a few ideas for the game that I would like to share:
Spaceship ideas: -The Hercules dropship. -Supersized Larva as a spaceship. -That special Void Ray in the last Protoss mission. -That special Phoenix in that same mission. -Guardian. -Overlord, but make it like the giant balloon that it is. EDIT: or Overseer (or make it an upgrade) -EDIT: Flying Sentry.
Upgrade/Ability ideas: -A special ability that teleports enemies back to their base, like the opposite of a vortex. It could be a projectile. -Scanner sweep. -Medic ability (heal allies by using energy, which would probably have to be a really expensive upgrade). -Boost (like a timed increase in speed where you use faster jets or something; this can be after you get x amount of upgrades for speed). -Landmines. -Glaive Wurm Splash Damage (bounces from one target to the next with decreased damage). -Lockdown (prevent the ship from moving for a timed duration. It should still be allowed to fire.) -Wunderwaffe Missile (CoD: WaW, Nazi Zombies, the Wunderwaffe links from target to target; kinda like the Glaive Wurm Splash Damage, but can be like a slowing effect or something). -EDIT: Baneling gun!
Other ideas: -Neutral, indestructible, harmless bases that spawn neutral creeps (that attack, but do not leave the general area; orbits the base). This can create map flow and POIs on your map. -Neutral AA turrets that can be captured by a team to secure a location. They can be destroyed by the enemy team, and then take some time to rebuild themselves, and they then become neutral again. -Other gametypes: i.e. CTF, Demolition, Territories, etc.
Try this Leviathan build I've been using for over 10 games, it feels powerful and I havn't died in any of them unless I got caught so off position or I'm the last one standing.
Step1: Buy leviathan
Step2: Buy constant mutation (the spell that lets you upgrade your things) Start flying out, while flying out, upgrade the 4 things on the upper left corner, and upgrade speed or whatever...
Step3: Pretend you are a beautiful blue whale, i.e. you surf around in search of the richest flow of planktons(creeps). Stay on the fringe of your friends, don't go too far. The idea is NOT to go crazy farming, with this build you will gradually rack up creep kills and surpass your allies.
Playstyle and Goals: You farm, and with the constant upgrade, you want to upgrade all but mana and mutalisk(you don't ever cast a spell and releasing mutalisk hinders your maneuverability). Your goal is to keep all upgrades at the same cost as much as possible, that is to say, when you mouse over the upgrades, they should be more or less the SAME price.
The reason for this is that upgrades have diminishing returns, a lvl1 upgrade on attack gives you the same amount of damage bonus as a lvl10, yet a lvl10 cost more. So it makes sense to upgrade the other ones which are cheaper and just as effective.
On armor upgrade: Please get it... it is most crappy on leviathan because it is only +1, but it is ESSENTIAL if you want the staying power to farm amongst the fighters, without descent armor upgrade the creeps will shred you up.
On how even should my upgrades be: In the beginning it should be pretty even, as everything is the same. You need the tentacles to farm but you also need some missile upgrades to hold your own against other ships. Late game you want to skew toward missile/speed/range upgrades, by keeping those more or less the same price and converge into a long-range build.
On why this build works so well: 1) You can upgrades on the field, this makes you a farming beast!! Imagine you have to wrap back to buy upgrades, then fly/wrap back, it is huge time wasted with the slow movespeed inherent to all the ships.
2) A subtle but absolutely huge factor with on-field upgrade that help you farm is that you out-upgrade your allies and enemies all the time while on the field. By the time they fly back with a pocket full of 400 minerals to buy their upgrades, say at 5,7 minutes mark, they already have played you on the field handicapped (their 300 dollar worth of upgrades vs your 700 dollar worth of upgrade) for 5,7 minutes. This means you can out-gun them every time they meet you. Each time someone face you, the total amount of money invested in that ship is going to be less than that of yours since he either lost time flying back, or he has money that he has not had a chance to spend. Further more, since you evenly spread your upgrades, the investment is pound for pound most efficient, this further shows when you have to face-off some other ships either 1v1 or simply sitting in a team fight. The effects of constant upgrades stacks up overtime as you keep farming and get stronger, and farm some more. I have always reached 400 kills when everyone else in game is around 250-300 kills.
Extra Tips:
The idea is you have so much staying power if you play smart and NOT trade missiles with the other ships in an unfavorable position (that is to say, they have 2 ships firing missile at you and you are only 1 there), you can out-regen and out upgrade them all the time, you never really go home, don't go into the yellow range if you can avoid it, whenever your hp is dropping bit too much swing back for couple seconds to get more upgrades!
At some point it, though, it is worth to go home and buy the maneuverability upgrade so essential to long-range kiting, and get frenzy/corruption if you want to gank people. In my games though I never really had the chance go go back since all the money are spent ASAP.
the basics apply to this as to everything, stick with team, help teammates by running next to them so your missle hit the chasers, map awareness, how to kite, etc...
I have a really good Leviathan build. It's a support role build meant to tank damage and protect your allies.
The idea is that you are fodder for your team, while also being able to damage others. The point of this build is to take a lot of damage, damage that could have been done to your allies, who will be playing a more offensive strategy.
Early game, you do not want to take damage. Just lend a hand here and there, stay together with your allies, and farm as usual. After you get rapid regeneration, you start tanking damage. Always go first into the fight, but make sure that you are not going in along. This way, you will be taking damage instead of your allies. This build is even better if you are being focused fired, so try to make yourself look like a juicy target.
Later on, after you get more armor and tentacle upgrades, don't be afraid to dive into a group of enemies, as long as your allies are right behind you. You become more and more powerful the more tentacle and armor upgrades you get. When you tank damage, be sure to use rapid regen. Keep using it as soon as the cooldown runs out if you have to. This keeps you in the battle, so you don't have to fall back to the Motehrship/CC. The enemies will, and when you outnumber then (you will with this build) push them back.
In late game, get corruption, another great support role ability. Coordinate abilities with your allies on one victim. They do not need to get armor, as you will be tanking a lot of damage. If the game continues, get spawn corruptors.
Again, the main idea is to use rapid regen in succession to gain a huge advantage in fights and to tank damage.
You allies can best support your build if they get their main ability (yamato cannon, plasma thing, acid thing, etc.) and continue to focus around damage dealing abilities and attacks. The best builds to support you are two speed and then yamato equivalent ability. This will make their farming more difficult, but they should get up four laser/tentacle upgrades and warp on their first trip to the Mothership/CC. Warp isn't necessary for them immediately. Throughout the game, they should get speed, energy, and ability upgrades. This will make them mobile "glass cannons", like the Hydralisk (low hp, high dps), but fast. Allies for one of each ship would be great. One BC, Carrier, Destroyer, and any other ship, paired with two Leviathans using this build would work well. They all have the same purpose, until late game, where the Destroyer would get Siege Mode. In Siege Mode, the Leviathans can protect then from fighters, and the Destroyer can kill the Mothership/CC, Warp Prisms/Science Vessels, or noobs hiding near the Mothership/CC. The BC and Carrier should otherwise get four lasers, then only upgrade energy and their yamato equivalent ability. Multiple blasts in a row will be essential to dishing out damage that the Leviathan cannot do until later on.
The best ratio of support to attack would be 2:4. A 3:3 would not work as well because three fodders absorbing damage is more than enough, and cuts back on the amount of ships dishing out damage.
-Get two speed, four tentacles, then wait to get warp and warp in on the ship closes to the front lines. This is pretty standard. -At about 300 minerals, warp back to the Mothership/CC and get constant mutation and rapid regeneration. Then, go back to the battle. -Using constant mutation, you won't have to go back to the Mothership/CC for a while. Buy another speed upgrade, four adrenaline gland upgrades, and one rapid regeneration upgrade when you can. This will leave you at a max of 300 energy with a faster rapid regen cool down. -Buy four armor upgrades. After this, continue to buy speed, tentacle, energy, and armor upgrades (do not buy organic carapace, use rapid regen for health). -If it goes this far into late game, warp back and get Corruption/Spawn Corruptors.
Any ideas/combinations with this build to make it better would be awesome!
Shameless copying my guide from the official forums:
(But hey, it's my own guide!)
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD
*Note: Any italics are special terminologies I made up on the spot. You can find their meaning here
Index(use search function to jump):
1. Introduction (INTR) 2. The Psi-Storm (PSII) 3. The build (BULD) 4. Important details (IMDE) 5. Micro technique and gimmick stuff (WEEE) 6. The ADS special (FUNN) 6. Natural enemy (ENDD)
(INTR) OK, although stating the obvious The carrier is the best ship for spell casting
Yeah, for real.
[size=120]So...What are we talking about?[/size] Since interceptors are greatly favored amongst many carrier players, many spells of the carriers have been overlooked. Look back in your past 10 games. How many barrage have been fired? Take a count at the feedback that's been used. When is the last time you see a vortex?
Waste! It's a waste! You are negating the most awesome part of the carrier by going pure ceptors, You are LIMITING YOURSELVES!
[size=120]Free your mind[/size] Apart from the closed opening for carrier, stop getting catapults! Ceptors are no fun anymore. You have wasted enough ceptors for the rest of your life. Time to learn something different:
[size=120]The Electromagnet Storm[/size] (PSII) But I prefer calling it the Psi-Storm.
What is it? The Psi-storm is an AoE spell of the carrier. It carries the following characteristics:
1. It deals gradual damage over a period of time. Precisely, 160 damage over 5 seconds.
2. It is instant cast.
3. It damages friendly units like other AoE spells.
How's it advantageous for you? The build for caster carrier revolves heavily around psi-storm. Over 80% of the game you will be using psi-storm over and over again, and be relying on it. Psi-storm consists of the following distinct advantage:
1. This spell does 160 damage on an area over a short period of time. It will kill small units quickily and swiftly, especially the creeps which gives you money. Also, it is of great use when helping an ally dealing with biters chasing them. While its damage is lampshaded by other unit's AoE, 160 is ALL you need through out the game as you will be aiming at the creeps mainly.
2. A spell that is instant cast can be combined with the Psi-fart to prevent stalling of your ship. Mobility will be the least of your worry if you are constantly on the move and smart to not stay behind too much.
3. Friendly fire you say? That means apart from killing enemy creeps, you can use it to kill your OWN creeps. While it gives you no money and kills, it would deny your opponent some farm to a certain extent.
[size=120]OK I get it I get it! What next?[/size]f (BULD) Constantly lay down storms and upgrade energy. A little later into the game when you can cast 3 storms in a row, this will be a cue when you start turning into a OP farmer. Do not be surprised when you are getting 3~4 times the amount of kills than your teammates later. This is NATURAL.
[size=120]And?[/size] Figure the rest on your own!
Just joking. The reason I wrote this article is so you don't need to. Generally once you reach 300 energy, it's time for 'fun'. Apart from warp(which I assume you have), warp technology will be favorable if your team is on the offensive position, else, you can skip it for later and keep upgrading your energy.
The Opening Standard closed opening is absolutely must. After that, depending on how well you farmed on your first farming run you will be choosing between:
1. Immediate warp storm----if you farmed over 200 minerals before 5 minutes, go for it! Get a warp(to get to the field fast) and a storm(for the storm) and start storming. You only have 1 storm initially, so choose your first psi-storm wisely. Predict where enemy creeps will come and BOOM! You will be left with 50 energy so stick with your teammates and shoot with them till you can lay down another storm for extra money. And upgrade energy when your team is retreating.
2. Extra lasers-----This might not be your fault, but if you have failed to gather enough minerals for a warp and a psi-storm before 5 minutes, it is VITAL to get 3 more laser upgrades to 1 shot level 2 creeps past the 2 minute mark. It is not a shame to be unable to gather enough minerals early, it can happen.
After that, it's straight forward. Upgrade as much energy as possible, and when you have extra minerals to boot, get warp technology. Warp in to the front, lay down as many storms as you can, and warp back to upgrade more and warp back to the front again. A few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals, added bonus if they are sending out on biters.
*Note: storms WILL loose their effectiveness against biters over time, so do not hesitate to lay down multiple storms to get rid of high level interceptors to prevent them to lay down too much damage!*
[size=120]Awesome! Anything else?[/size] (IMDE) Not much. Be it feedback or emp, once you get too much energy even when your energy returns to zero you will regenerate them fast enough to lay down storm after storm. Most annoying might be the lockdown, which will stop you from casting your delicious spells even if your have energy. But then, once it wears off you can immediately storm the hell out of everything.
In addition, caster carrier is quite weak in the beginning. You will be using every trick you have up your sleeve to hang in there before the goodies arrive. More on that later.
[size=120]Later? More like, NOW![/size] Yeah, "storm and storm and storm" pretty much covers up everything basic. I'm amazed how long I managed to drag it out. But apart from storm, there are a few important things that you should know. Some I have repeated in the OP ray guide, but I have to repeat them here:
Know where your enemies are Apart from turning enemies into red, enemy capital ships show up as a large blob of red which is fairly easy to spot. The next thing you should do is...count. Keep count the number of large dots are on the mini-map. If they are engaging your teammates or your creeps, they will show up. The best scenario is that you see 6 red blobs very close to your base with half your team occupying them while you hog a lot of farm. However what if some are missing on the mini-map? That is when you need to think of the possibilities...
1. They are afk/noobs and are still sitting in their base. A great scenario, but don't bet on it.
2. They are walking out from their base ready to give you a good spanking. Unless there are multiple mukes/void rays (yamato/plasma barrage/Bio-Plasma discharge) that is coming towards you, you can still get away safely.
3. They are in the void area where your creeps don't reach. They might trying to ambush you. You can usually notice this when you see 6 ships ahead and all of a sudden, half of them disappears backwards into the void.
OH SHIT! RUN! Knowing where your enemies absolutely helps you on this topic. For example, if you are getting hit by 2+ mukes, you will most likely be out of shields. But don't panic! First you need to know where the mukes come from---if all of them come from ahead of you(i.e. their base), you can probably run straight home like a little squirrel. But chances are, some of them are from behind you and if you just run straight, you are dead as they will intercept you, fire another muke to finish you off forever and ever.
Avoid enemies in a huge arc. If all of them are coming towards you, you can probably run towards one of their towers, past it (taking a few hits) and into the void where creeps doesn't reach. This gives you 2 advantage: The creeps doesn't harm you anymore, allowing your shields to moderately recharge and two, the enemies cannot see you while your creeps will be spotting for you. You can then choose to run along the side of the map sneakily to avoid them(if they don't do a wild guess and chase) or if they do bend towards the corner, get help. Keep your screen on them so you see which direction they're heading and use the minimap to issue orders for your ship and direct it to safety.
This is of course assuming your entire team are douche bags and won't warp in to save you. Once in the dark, if some of your teammates warp in they can help fend you off as well, sometimes even making a counter and kill.
Use ping Bling! How do you do that mini-map bling-bling thing which makes an alert and a sound? Hold alt and click on where you want the alert to appear. Don't spam it pointlessly! They are generally for the following purpose:
1. Alert and organizing teammates of a lone enemy ship for ganking 2. Responding to previous alert
3. Call for help. You probably need to type out, in caps, "HELP" along with the ping. Probably click it a few more times to depending how much you are panicking.
4. General alert of dangers, write something like "careful, all 6 enemies gathered there!" before doing the ping or your team will rush to their doom before you can say "don't go!"!
(WEEE)
The step-cept The carrier will be lacking in dps against other builds. To compensate for the lack of damage you are doing, it's time to call in some friends: the interceptors.
Many players make the mistake of launching ALL interceptors from afar towards enemy ships. WRONG! By doing this, you are making the following mistakes: 1. Your ship will slow down and come to a halt by the time all your biters launch, making you a sitting duck if exposed, or making you unable to catch up with your team and fire your lasers. Your biters are support roles. Lasers and missiles are what hurts early game. 2. Your biters are weak early. Doing this will allow your enemy to kill them off at leisure without worry. Free minerals for them, NOM.
That's where the move step-cept comes in. With the improved interceptor launching mechanism, it is POSSIBLE to launch your biters while keeping constant speed. Here is how you do it:
1. Make your ship move towards enemy
2. Press "R", and click on enemy ship like normal, but here comes the catch:
3. Immediately before you slow down, move again without launching all interceptors. Repeat step 1 and 2. You can launch all 10 by repeating this 5 times if done perfectly, without slowing down at all.
Added bonus if you can kill their biters first, and launch them at close range so your ship tanks the shots for your biters, allowing them to continue doing damage with your main ship.
The psi-fart Casing the electromagnet storm will cause your ship to come to a complete halt. While this is OK when you have your entire team covering for you(still no good), it will be DEADLY to you when you are running away, and wish to cast a storm behind you to destroy the biters chewing you off. You cannot afford to stop. You mustn't!
Master the psi-fart, a technique which allows you to cast psi storm on the move:
1. Cast electromagnetic storm
2. Immediately, hold down shift and right click. if you're on the offense, you can right click on the same spot you stormed and chase course later. If you are running, you will need to be very quick when clicking the opposite direction of your storm!
3. if needed, do a normal right click to cancel orders. The point of psi-fart is to maintain your speed, so mis-clicking empty space is OK. Practice makes perfect.
Forced stall Taking advantage of how the psi-storm makes your ship come to a complete halt, if you wish to go backwards but no matter what you are going in a huge arc, might help to come to a complete halt. Just storm anywhere.
[size=120]How to storm[/size] Remember how I said a few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals? How to place the storms is the key:
Notice how the creeps come from the base, the left tower and the right tower? And they all fly in formation in a straight line once launched? Picture a thick line along their routes. We can call each of them one 'lane'. Notice there is also three mini 'lanes' among each lane? You need to find that out first. Once you can picture a nice, straight line which will tell you where the creeps are going, you have got the basics!
1. Storm ahead. Since psi-storm does damage over time, the way to exert maximum damage is to storm ahead of said target, so they stay in the storm for the longest period of time. This is especially important towards the later of the game as creeps gain more and more hp.
2. Storm between you and the creeps. The psi-storm, once it scratches even one creep, will attract the entire lane(large) towards you. Storming in between you and the creeps will ensure every single creep in the lane pass through the storm and doom.
3. Storm where your creeps are passing! No you don't get money from it, but you will deny your enemy of creeps to kill and less money for them.
4. Storm yourself. Really, 160 damage is NOTHING. Even a void ray can stand there and eat the entire 160 damage while laughing. Biters can't. The point of this is to get rid of the high level biters that are swarming around you. If can't kill them with your first storm when they're nicely lined up, this will make a difference between kill or killed. You kill the biters? You eat less damage from them, at the cost of just 160 extra damage from yourself.
5. Death before dishonor! Since psi-storm does friendly damage, attempt suicide if you sure you're going to die. At least those scumbags won't get money when they killed you. And quit the game before your ship blows up so your teammates gets the bonus minerals split from you.
[size=120]Well...all you have been talking is storm. Where are the big guns?[/size](FUNN)
Since you will be focusing on your energy a lot, your physical dps will likely be lower than average. While barrage spam sounds fun, the 12 seconds stun time can actually be quite dangerous for you so make sure you know what you are doing! But if you really want a big gun...behold the ADS special:
Feedback + Storm + Barrage
Consuming a whopping 350 energy for this super combo, This combo can deal a maximum of 2560 damage on one target over 6 seconds with no penalty. If you have energy, add another round of psi storm, no, TWO more round of psi storms in your victim's way. Since feedback and storm are instant cast, you can chain it with barrage pretty darn well. And since you are a caster build the 12 second of stun time on barrage should regenerate you the majority of 350 energy back, making the ADS special quite spam-able.
[size=120]Your Natural Enemy[/size] (ENDD)
Your natural enemies:
1. Lockdown Destroyer. This is seriously PAINFUL since your build relies on spells so much. If this happens, quickly disengage and get away from said destroyer. Your spells do have higher range than lockdown anyways!
2. Team Feedback: Having an almost unlimited supply of energy can backfire on you sometimes. If your opponent has 2+ carriers with trigger-happy feedback, you will be taking a regular 600 damage every few seconds. Sine your energy is so high there really is no way to prevent this damage. Just get the heck out of there.
3. Early corruptors: What!? Yeah, corruptors, while they appear to be weak against psi-storm, they can take two storms each on the minimum. It is a huge waste to try storm them---abuse their slow speed and run away from them. Your storm are best saved for the creeps!
4. Rangers: Since most spells has short range ships with extreme range will screw you up pretty bad, especially at the 'warp back to upgrade' bit. Watch out.
5. Your own teammates: Even the mighty Darth Vadar's has his weakness: his legion of incompetent Storm Troopers. Get your own team of Jedi Knights while you fire up your psi-storm!
On January 10 2011 17:00 closey wrote: Shameless copying my guide from the official forums:
(But hey, it's my own guide!)
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD
*Note: Any italics are special terminologies I made up on the spot. You can find their meaning here
Index(use search function to jump):
1. Introduction (INTR) 2. The Psi-Storm (PSII) 3. The build (BULD) 4. Important details (IMDE) 5. Micro technique and gimmick stuff (WEEE) 6. The ADS special (FUNN) 6. Natural enemy (ENDD)
(INTR) OK, although stating the obvious The carrier is the best ship for spell casting
Yeah, for real.
[size=120]So...What are we talking about?[/size] Since interceptors are greatly favored amongst many carrier players, many spells of the carriers have been overlooked. Look back in your past 10 games. How many barrage have been fired? Take a count at the feedback that's been used. When is the last time you see a vortex?
Waste! It's a waste! You are negating the most awesome part of the carrier by going pure ceptors, You are LIMITING YOURSELVES!
[size=120]Free your mind[/size] Apart from the closed opening for carrier, stop getting catapults! Ceptors are no fun anymore. You have wasted enough ceptors for the rest of your life. Time to learn something different:
[size=120]The Electromagnet Storm[/size] (PSII) But I prefer calling it the Psi-Storm.
What is it? The Psi-storm is an AoE spell of the carrier. It carries the following characteristics:
1. It deals gradual damage over a period of time. Precisely, 160 damage over 5 seconds.
2. It is instant cast.
3. It damages friendly units like other AoE spells.
How's it advantageous for you? The build for caster carrier revolves heavily around psi-storm. Over 80% of the game you will be using psi-storm over and over again, and be relying on it. Psi-storm consists of the following distinct advantage:
1. This spell does 160 damage on an area over a short period of time. It will kill small units quickily and swiftly, especially the creeps which gives you money. Also, it is of great use when helping an ally dealing with biters chasing them. While its damage is lampshaded by other unit's AoE, 160 is ALL you need through out the game as you will be aiming at the creeps mainly.
2. A spell that is instant cast can be combined with the Psi-fart to prevent stalling of your ship. Mobility will be the least of your worry if you are constantly on the move and smart to not stay behind too much.
3. Friendly fire you say? That means apart from killing enemy creeps, you can use it to kill your OWN creeps. While it gives you no money and kills, it would deny your opponent some farm to a certain extent.
[size=120]OK I get it I get it! What next?[/size]f (BULD) Constantly lay down storms and upgrade energy. A little later into the game when you can cast 3 storms in a row, this will be a cue when you start turning into a OP farmer. Do not be surprised when you are getting 3~4 times the amount of kills than your teammates later. This is NATURAL.
[size=120]And?[/size] Figure the rest on your own!
Just joking. The reason I wrote this article is so you don't need to. Generally once you reach 300 energy, it's time for 'fun'. Apart from warp(which I assume you have), warp technology will be favorable if your team is on the offensive position, else, you can skip it for later and keep upgrading your energy.
The Opening Standard closed opening is absolutely must. After that, depending on how well you farmed on your first farming run you will be choosing between:
1. Immediate warp storm----if you farmed over 200 minerals before 5 minutes, go for it! Get a warp(to get to the field fast) and a storm(for the storm) and start storming. You only have 1 storm initially, so choose your first psi-storm wisely. Predict where enemy creeps will come and BOOM! You will be left with 50 energy so stick with your teammates and shoot with them till you can lay down another storm for extra money. And upgrade energy when your team is retreating.
2. Extra lasers-----This might not be your fault, but if you have failed to gather enough minerals for a warp and a psi-storm before 5 minutes, it is VITAL to get 3 more laser upgrades to 1 shot level 2 creeps past the 2 minute mark. It is not a shame to be unable to gather enough minerals early, it can happen.
After that, it's straight forward. Upgrade as much energy as possible, and when you have extra minerals to boot, get warp technology. Warp in to the front, lay down as many storms as you can, and warp back to upgrade more and warp back to the front again. A few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals, added bonus if they are sending out on biters.
*Note: storms WILL loose their effectiveness against biters over time, so do not hesitate to lay down multiple storms to get rid of high level interceptors to prevent them to lay down too much damage!*
[size=120]Awesome! Anything else?[/size] (IMDE) Not much. Be it feedback or emp, once you get too much energy even when your energy returns to zero you will regenerate them fast enough to lay down storm after storm. Most annoying might be the lockdown, which will stop you from casting your delicious spells even if your have energy. But then, once it wears off you can immediately storm the hell out of everything.
In addition, caster carrier is quite weak in the beginning. You will be using every trick you have up your sleeve to hang in there before the goodies arrive. More on that later.
[size=120]Later? More like, NOW![/size] Yeah, "storm and storm and storm" pretty much covers up everything basic. I'm amazed how long I managed to drag it out. But apart from storm, there are a few important things that you should know. Some I have repeated in the OP ray guide, but I have to repeat them here:
Know where your enemies are Apart from turning enemies into red, enemy capital ships show up as a large blob of red which is fairly easy to spot. The next thing you should do is...count. Keep count the number of large dots are on the mini-map. If they are engaging your teammates or your creeps, they will show up. The best scenario is that you see 6 red blobs very close to your base with half your team occupying them while you hog a lot of farm. However what if some are missing on the mini-map? That is when you need to think of the possibilities...
1. They are afk/noobs and are still sitting in their base. A great scenario, but don't bet on it.
2. They are walking out from their base ready to give you a good spanking. Unless there are multiple mukes/void rays (yamato/plasma barrage/Bio-Plasma discharge) that is coming towards you, you can still get away safely.
3. They are in the void area where your creeps don't reach. They might trying to ambush you. You can usually notice this when you see 6 ships ahead and all of a sudden, half of them disappears backwards into the void.
OH SHIT! RUN! Knowing where your enemies absolutely helps you on this topic. For example, if you are getting hit by 2+ mukes, you will most likely be out of shields. But don't panic! First you need to know where the mukes come from---if all of them come from ahead of you(i.e. their base), you can probably run straight home like a little squirrel. But chances are, some of them are from behind you and if you just run straight, you are dead as they will intercept you, fire another muke to finish you off forever and ever.
Avoid enemies in a huge arc. If all of them are coming towards you, you can probably run towards one of their towers, past it (taking a few hits) and into the void where creeps doesn't reach. This gives you 2 advantage: The creeps doesn't harm you anymore, allowing your shields to moderately recharge and two, the enemies cannot see you while your creeps will be spotting for you. You can then choose to run along the side of the map sneakily to avoid them(if they don't do a wild guess and chase) or if they do bend towards the corner, get help. Keep your screen on them so you see which direction they're heading and use the minimap to issue orders for your ship and direct it to safety.
This is of course assuming your entire team are douche bags and won't warp in to save you. Once in the dark, if some of your teammates warp in they can help fend you off as well, sometimes even making a counter and kill.
Use ping Bling! How do you do that mini-map bling-bling thing which makes an alert and a sound? Hold alt and click on where you want the alert to appear. Don't spam it pointlessly! They are generally for the following purpose:
1. Alert and organizing teammates of a lone enemy ship for ganking 2. Responding to previous alert
3. Call for help. You probably need to type out, in caps, "HELP" along with the ping. Probably click it a few more times to depending how much you are panicking.
4. General alert of dangers, write something like "careful, all 6 enemies gathered there!" before doing the ping or your team will rush to their doom before you can say "don't go!"!
(WEEE)
The step-cept The carrier will be lacking in dps against other builds. To compensate for the lack of damage you are doing, it's time to call in some friends: the interceptors.
Many players make the mistake of launching ALL interceptors from afar towards enemy ships. WRONG! By doing this, you are making the following mistakes: 1. Your ship will slow down and come to a halt by the time all your biters launch, making you a sitting duck if exposed, or making you unable to catch up with your team and fire your lasers. Your biters are support roles. Lasers and missiles are what hurts early game. 2. Your biters are weak early. Doing this will allow your enemy to kill them off at leisure without worry. Free minerals for them, NOM.
That's where the move step-cept comes in. With the improved interceptor launching mechanism, it is POSSIBLE to launch your biters while keeping constant speed. Here is how you do it:
1. Make your ship move towards enemy
2. Press "R", and click on enemy ship like normal, but here comes the catch:
3. Immediately before you slow down, move again without launching all interceptors. Repeat step 1 and 2. You can launch all 10 by repeating this 5 times if done perfectly, without slowing down at all.
Added bonus if you can kill their biters first, and launch them at close range so your ship tanks the shots for your biters, allowing them to continue doing damage with your main ship.
The psi-fart Casing the electromagnet storm will cause your ship to come to a complete halt. While this is OK when you have your entire team covering for you(still no good), it will be DEADLY to you when you are running away, and wish to cast a storm behind you to destroy the biters chewing you off. You cannot afford to stop. You mustn't!
Master the psi-fart, a technique which allows you to cast psi storm on the move:
1. Cast electromagnetic storm
2. Immediately, hold down shift and right click. if you're on the offense, you can right click on the same spot you stormed and chase course later. If you are running, you will need to be very quick when clicking the opposite direction of your storm!
3. if needed, do a normal right click to cancel orders. The point of psi-fart is to maintain your speed, so mis-clicking empty space is OK. Practice makes perfect.
Forced stall Taking advantage of how the psi-storm makes your ship come to a complete halt, if you wish to go backwards but no matter what you are going in a huge arc, might help to come to a complete halt. Just storm anywhere.
[size=120]How to storm[/size] Remember how I said a few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals? How to place the storms is the key:
Notice how the creeps come from the base, the left tower and the right tower? And they all fly in formation in a straight line once launched? Picture a thick line along their routes. We can call each of them one 'lane'. Notice there is also three mini 'lanes' among each lane? You need to find that out first. Once you can picture a nice, straight line which will tell you where the creeps are going, you have got the basics!
1. Storm ahead. Since psi-storm does damage over time, the way to exert maximum damage is to storm ahead of said target, so they stay in the storm for the longest period of time. This is especially important towards the later of the game as creeps gain more and more hp.
2. Storm between you and the creeps. The psi-storm, once it scratches even one creep, will attract the entire lane(large) towards you. Storming in between you and the creeps will ensure every single creep in the lane pass through the storm and doom.
3. Storm where your creeps are passing! No you don't get money from it, but you will deny your enemy of creeps to kill and less money for them.
4. Storm yourself. Really, 160 damage is NOTHING. Even a void ray can stand there and eat the entire 160 damage while laughing. Biters can't. The point of this is to get rid of the high level biters that are swarming around you. If can't kill them with your first storm when they're nicely lined up, this will make a difference between kill or killed. You kill the biters? You eat less damage from them, at the cost of just 160 extra damage from yourself.
5. Death before dishonor! Since psi-storm does friendly damage, attempt suicide if you sure you're going to die. At least those scumbags won't get money when they killed you. And quit the game before your ship blows up so your teammates gets the bonus minerals split from you.
[size=120]Well...all you have been talking is storm. Where are the big guns?[/size](FUNN)
Since you will be focusing on your energy a lot, your physical dps will likely be lower than average. While barrage spam sounds fun, the 12 seconds stun time can actually be quite dangerous for you so make sure you know what you are doing! But if you really want a big gun...behold the ADS special:
Feedback + Storm + Barrage
Consuming a whopping 350 energy for this super combo, This combo can deal a maximum of 2560 damage on one target over 6 seconds with no penalty. If you have energy, add another round of psi storm, no, TWO more round of psi storms in your victim's way. Since feedback and storm are instant cast, you can chain it with barrage pretty darn well. And since you are a caster build the 12 second of stun time on barrage should regenerate you the majority of 350 energy back, making the ADS special quite spam-able.
[size=120]Your Natural Enemy[/size] (ENDD)
Your natural enemies:
1. Lockdown Destroyer. This is seriously PAINFUL since your build relies on spells so much. If this happens, quickly disengage and get away from said destroyer. Your spells do have higher range than lockdown anyways!
2. Team Feedback: Having an almost unlimited supply of energy can backfire on you sometimes. If your opponent has 2+ carriers with trigger-happy feedback, you will be taking a regular 600 damage every few seconds. Sine your energy is so high there really is no way to prevent this damage. Just get the heck out of there.
3. Early corruptors: What!? Yeah, corruptors, while they appear to be weak against psi-storm, they can take two storms each on the minimum. It is a huge waste to try storm them---abuse their slow speed and run away from them. Your storm are best saved for the creeps!
4. Rangers: Since most spells has short range ships with extreme range will screw you up pretty bad, especially at the 'warp back to upgrade' bit. Watch out.
5. Your own teammates: Even the mighty Darth Vadar's has his weakness: his legion of incompetent Storm Troopers. Get your own team of Jedi Knights while you fire up your psi-storm!
Happy hunting!
I don't understand how this build helps your allies in the long run in actually winning other than killing the most creeps out of everyone. Also, if your allies are also going for more of a support/farming role, meaning your team lacks strength in fights, it's not going to end well. I like the idea of using storm to farm and get a lot of money, but as the game progresses, you need other upgrades. I know you mentioned Feedback and Barrage, but I think that you might need these earlier. I'd get them earlier just in case, then only use storm if it turns out I don't need them.
On January 10 2011 17:00 closey wrote: Shameless copying my guide from the official forums:
(But hey, it's my own guide!)
WARNING: WALL OF TEXT AHEAD
*Note: Any italics are special terminologies I made up on the spot. You can find their meaning here
Index(use search function to jump):
1. Introduction (INTR) 2. The Psi-Storm (PSII) 3. The build (BULD) 4. Important details (IMDE) 5. Micro technique and gimmick stuff (WEEE) 6. The ADS special (FUNN) 6. Natural enemy (ENDD)
(INTR) OK, although stating the obvious The carrier is the best ship for spell casting
Yeah, for real.
[size=120]So...What are we talking about?[/size] Since interceptors are greatly favored amongst many carrier players, many spells of the carriers have been overlooked. Look back in your past 10 games. How many barrage have been fired? Take a count at the feedback that's been used. When is the last time you see a vortex?
Waste! It's a waste! You are negating the most awesome part of the carrier by going pure ceptors, You are LIMITING YOURSELVES!
[size=120]Free your mind[/size] Apart from the closed opening for carrier, stop getting catapults! Ceptors are no fun anymore. You have wasted enough ceptors for the rest of your life. Time to learn something different:
[size=120]The Electromagnet Storm[/size] (PSII) But I prefer calling it the Psi-Storm.
What is it? The Psi-storm is an AoE spell of the carrier. It carries the following characteristics:
1. It deals gradual damage over a period of time. Precisely, 160 damage over 5 seconds.
2. It is instant cast.
3. It damages friendly units like other AoE spells.
How's it advantageous for you? The build for caster carrier revolves heavily around psi-storm. Over 80% of the game you will be using psi-storm over and over again, and be relying on it. Psi-storm consists of the following distinct advantage:
1. This spell does 160 damage on an area over a short period of time. It will kill small units quickily and swiftly, especially the creeps which gives you money. Also, it is of great use when helping an ally dealing with biters chasing them. While its damage is lampshaded by other unit's AoE, 160 is ALL you need through out the game as you will be aiming at the creeps mainly.
2. A spell that is instant cast can be combined with the Psi-fart to prevent stalling of your ship. Mobility will be the least of your worry if you are constantly on the move and smart to not stay behind too much.
3. Friendly fire you say? That means apart from killing enemy creeps, you can use it to kill your OWN creeps. While it gives you no money and kills, it would deny your opponent some farm to a certain extent.
[size=120]OK I get it I get it! What next?[/size]f (BULD) Constantly lay down storms and upgrade energy. A little later into the game when you can cast 3 storms in a row, this will be a cue when you start turning into a OP farmer. Do not be surprised when you are getting 3~4 times the amount of kills than your teammates later. This is NATURAL.
[size=120]And?[/size] Figure the rest on your own!
Just joking. The reason I wrote this article is so you don't need to. Generally once you reach 300 energy, it's time for 'fun'. Apart from warp(which I assume you have), warp technology will be favorable if your team is on the offensive position, else, you can skip it for later and keep upgrading your energy.
The Opening Standard closed opening is absolutely must. After that, depending on how well you farmed on your first farming run you will be choosing between:
1. Immediate warp storm----if you farmed over 200 minerals before 5 minutes, go for it! Get a warp(to get to the field fast) and a storm(for the storm) and start storming. You only have 1 storm initially, so choose your first psi-storm wisely. Predict where enemy creeps will come and BOOM! You will be left with 50 energy so stick with your teammates and shoot with them till you can lay down another storm for extra money. And upgrade energy when your team is retreating.
2. Extra lasers-----This might not be your fault, but if you have failed to gather enough minerals for a warp and a psi-storm before 5 minutes, it is VITAL to get 3 more laser upgrades to 1 shot level 2 creeps past the 2 minute mark. It is not a shame to be unable to gather enough minerals early, it can happen.
After that, it's straight forward. Upgrade as much energy as possible, and when you have extra minerals to boot, get warp technology. Warp in to the front, lay down as many storms as you can, and warp back to upgrade more and warp back to the front again. A few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals, added bonus if they are sending out on biters.
*Note: storms WILL loose their effectiveness against biters over time, so do not hesitate to lay down multiple storms to get rid of high level interceptors to prevent them to lay down too much damage!*
[size=120]Awesome! Anything else?[/size] (IMDE) Not much. Be it feedback or emp, once you get too much energy even when your energy returns to zero you will regenerate them fast enough to lay down storm after storm. Most annoying might be the lockdown, which will stop you from casting your delicious spells even if your have energy. But then, once it wears off you can immediately storm the hell out of everything.
In addition, caster carrier is quite weak in the beginning. You will be using every trick you have up your sleeve to hang in there before the goodies arrive. More on that later.
[size=120]Later? More like, NOW![/size] Yeah, "storm and storm and storm" pretty much covers up everything basic. I'm amazed how long I managed to drag it out. But apart from storm, there are a few important things that you should know. Some I have repeated in the OP ray guide, but I have to repeat them here:
Know where your enemies are Apart from turning enemies into red, enemy capital ships show up as a large blob of red which is fairly easy to spot. The next thing you should do is...count. Keep count the number of large dots are on the mini-map. If they are engaging your teammates or your creeps, they will show up. The best scenario is that you see 6 red blobs very close to your base with half your team occupying them while you hog a lot of farm. However what if some are missing on the mini-map? That is when you need to think of the possibilities...
1. They are afk/noobs and are still sitting in their base. A great scenario, but don't bet on it.
2. They are walking out from their base ready to give you a good spanking. Unless there are multiple mukes/void rays (yamato/plasma barrage/Bio-Plasma discharge) that is coming towards you, you can still get away safely.
3. They are in the void area where your creeps don't reach. They might trying to ambush you. You can usually notice this when you see 6 ships ahead and all of a sudden, half of them disappears backwards into the void.
OH SHIT! RUN! Knowing where your enemies absolutely helps you on this topic. For example, if you are getting hit by 2+ mukes, you will most likely be out of shields. But don't panic! First you need to know where the mukes come from---if all of them come from ahead of you(i.e. their base), you can probably run straight home like a little squirrel. But chances are, some of them are from behind you and if you just run straight, you are dead as they will intercept you, fire another muke to finish you off forever and ever.
Avoid enemies in a huge arc. If all of them are coming towards you, you can probably run towards one of their towers, past it (taking a few hits) and into the void where creeps doesn't reach. This gives you 2 advantage: The creeps doesn't harm you anymore, allowing your shields to moderately recharge and two, the enemies cannot see you while your creeps will be spotting for you. You can then choose to run along the side of the map sneakily to avoid them(if they don't do a wild guess and chase) or if they do bend towards the corner, get help. Keep your screen on them so you see which direction they're heading and use the minimap to issue orders for your ship and direct it to safety.
This is of course assuming your entire team are douche bags and won't warp in to save you. Once in the dark, if some of your teammates warp in they can help fend you off as well, sometimes even making a counter and kill.
Use ping Bling! How do you do that mini-map bling-bling thing which makes an alert and a sound? Hold alt and click on where you want the alert to appear. Don't spam it pointlessly! They are generally for the following purpose:
1. Alert and organizing teammates of a lone enemy ship for ganking 2. Responding to previous alert
3. Call for help. You probably need to type out, in caps, "HELP" along with the ping. Probably click it a few more times to depending how much you are panicking.
4. General alert of dangers, write something like "careful, all 6 enemies gathered there!" before doing the ping or your team will rush to their doom before you can say "don't go!"!
(WEEE)
The step-cept The carrier will be lacking in dps against other builds. To compensate for the lack of damage you are doing, it's time to call in some friends: the interceptors.
Many players make the mistake of launching ALL interceptors from afar towards enemy ships. WRONG! By doing this, you are making the following mistakes: 1. Your ship will slow down and come to a halt by the time all your biters launch, making you a sitting duck if exposed, or making you unable to catch up with your team and fire your lasers. Your biters are support roles. Lasers and missiles are what hurts early game. 2. Your biters are weak early. Doing this will allow your enemy to kill them off at leisure without worry. Free minerals for them, NOM.
That's where the move step-cept comes in. With the improved interceptor launching mechanism, it is POSSIBLE to launch your biters while keeping constant speed. Here is how you do it:
1. Make your ship move towards enemy
2. Press "R", and click on enemy ship like normal, but here comes the catch:
3. Immediately before you slow down, move again without launching all interceptors. Repeat step 1 and 2. You can launch all 10 by repeating this 5 times if done perfectly, without slowing down at all.
Added bonus if you can kill their biters first, and launch them at close range so your ship tanks the shots for your biters, allowing them to continue doing damage with your main ship.
The psi-fart Casing the electromagnet storm will cause your ship to come to a complete halt. While this is OK when you have your entire team covering for you(still no good), it will be DEADLY to you when you are running away, and wish to cast a storm behind you to destroy the biters chewing you off. You cannot afford to stop. You mustn't!
Master the psi-fart, a technique which allows you to cast psi storm on the move:
1. Cast electromagnetic storm
2. Immediately, hold down shift and right click. if you're on the offense, you can right click on the same spot you stormed and chase course later. If you are running, you will need to be very quick when clicking the opposite direction of your storm!
3. if needed, do a normal right click to cancel orders. The point of psi-fart is to maintain your speed, so mis-clicking empty space is OK. Practice makes perfect.
Forced stall Taking advantage of how the psi-storm makes your ship come to a complete halt, if you wish to go backwards but no matter what you are going in a huge arc, might help to come to a complete halt. Just storm anywhere.
[size=120]How to storm[/size] Remember how I said a few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals? How to place the storms is the key:
Notice how the creeps come from the base, the left tower and the right tower? And they all fly in formation in a straight line once launched? Picture a thick line along their routes. We can call each of them one 'lane'. Notice there is also three mini 'lanes' among each lane? You need to find that out first. Once you can picture a nice, straight line which will tell you where the creeps are going, you have got the basics!
1. Storm ahead. Since psi-storm does damage over time, the way to exert maximum damage is to storm ahead of said target, so they stay in the storm for the longest period of time. This is especially important towards the later of the game as creeps gain more and more hp.
2. Storm between you and the creeps. The psi-storm, once it scratches even one creep, will attract the entire lane(large) towards you. Storming in between you and the creeps will ensure every single creep in the lane pass through the storm and doom.
3. Storm where your creeps are passing! No you don't get money from it, but you will deny your enemy of creeps to kill and less money for them.
4. Storm yourself. Really, 160 damage is NOTHING. Even a void ray can stand there and eat the entire 160 damage while laughing. Biters can't. The point of this is to get rid of the high level biters that are swarming around you. If can't kill them with your first storm when they're nicely lined up, this will make a difference between kill or killed. You kill the biters? You eat less damage from them, at the cost of just 160 extra damage from yourself.
5. Death before dishonor! Since psi-storm does friendly damage, attempt suicide if you sure you're going to die. At least those scumbags won't get money when they killed you. And quit the game before your ship blows up so your teammates gets the bonus minerals split from you.
[size=120]Well...all you have been talking is storm. Where are the big guns?[/size](FUNN)
Since you will be focusing on your energy a lot, your physical dps will likely be lower than average. While barrage spam sounds fun, the 12 seconds stun time can actually be quite dangerous for you so make sure you know what you are doing! But if you really want a big gun...behold the ADS special:
Feedback + Storm + Barrage
Consuming a whopping 350 energy for this super combo, This combo can deal a maximum of 2560 damage on one target over 6 seconds with no penalty. If you have energy, add another round of psi storm, no, TWO more round of psi storms in your victim's way. Since feedback and storm are instant cast, you can chain it with barrage pretty darn well. And since you are a caster build the 12 second of stun time on barrage should regenerate you the majority of 350 energy back, making the ADS special quite spam-able.
[size=120]Your Natural Enemy[/size] (ENDD)
Your natural enemies:
1. Lockdown Destroyer. This is seriously PAINFUL since your build relies on spells so much. If this happens, quickly disengage and get away from said destroyer. Your spells do have higher range than lockdown anyways!
2. Team Feedback: Having an almost unlimited supply of energy can backfire on you sometimes. If your opponent has 2+ carriers with trigger-happy feedback, you will be taking a regular 600 damage every few seconds. Sine your energy is so high there really is no way to prevent this damage. Just get the heck out of there.
3. Early corruptors: What!? Yeah, corruptors, while they appear to be weak against psi-storm, they can take two storms each on the minimum. It is a huge waste to try storm them---abuse their slow speed and run away from them. Your storm are best saved for the creeps!
4. Rangers: Since most spells has short range ships with extreme range will screw you up pretty bad, especially at the 'warp back to upgrade' bit. Watch out.
5. Your own teammates: Even the mighty Darth Vadar's has his weakness: his legion of incompetent Storm Troopers. Get your own team of Jedi Knights while you fire up your psi-storm!
Happy hunting!
I don't understand how this build helps your allies in the long run in actually winning other than killing the most creeps out of everyone. Also, if your allies are also going for more of a support/farming role, meaning your team lacks strength in fights, it's not going to end well. I like the idea of using storm to farm and get a lot of money, but as the game progresses, you need other upgrades. I know you mentioned Feedback and Barrage, but I think that you might need these earlier. I'd get them earlier just in case, then only use storm if it turns out I don't need them.
A transition is possible and very easy for this build. Many times it ended up with me switching to level 20 interceptors halfway with the huge amount of money I have summed up from storms(and the other ceptor build guy in my team barely got level 12 once) I have worked this build with my team many times and we rarely get a disadvantage in a brawl. The storm really works well in splitting up players thus lowering their dps while my team balls up and unleash un-interrupted damage output. (mainly thanks to their reflex they have been learned in laddar games)
While barrage cannot upgrde their damage, having a certain carrier spam it on you can really, really hurt.
1. Introduction (INTR) 2. The Psi-Storm (PSII) 3. The build (BULD) 4. Important details (IMDE) 5. Micro technique and gimmick stuff (WEEE) 6. The ADS special (FUNN) 6. Natural enemy (ENDD)
(INTR) OK, although stating the obvious The carrier is the best ship for spell casting
Yeah, for real.
[size=120]So...What are we talking about?[/size] Since interceptors are greatly favored amongst many carrier players, many spells of the carriers have been overlooked. Look back in your past 10 games. How many barrage have been fired? Take a count at the feedback that's been used. When is the last time you see a vortex?
Waste! It's a waste! You are negating the most awesome part of the carrier by going pure ceptors, You are LIMITING YOURSELVES!
[size=120]Free your mind[/size] Apart from the closed opening for carrier, stop getting catapults! Ceptors are no fun anymore. You have wasted enough ceptors for the rest of your life. Time to learn something different:
[size=120]The Electromagnet Storm[/size] (PSII) But I prefer calling it the Psi-Storm.
What is it? The Psi-storm is an AoE spell of the carrier. It carries the following characteristics:
1. It deals gradual damage over a period of time. Precisely, 160 damage over 5 seconds.
2. It is instant cast.
3. It damages friendly units like other AoE spells.
How's it advantageous for you? The build for caster carrier revolves heavily around psi-storm. Over 80% of the game you will be using psi-storm over and over again, and be relying on it. Psi-storm consists of the following distinct advantage:
1. This spell does 160 damage on an area over a short period of time. It will kill small units quickily and swiftly, especially the creeps which gives you money. Also, it is of great use when helping an ally dealing with biters chasing them. While its damage is lampshaded by other unit's AoE, 160 is ALL you need through out the game as you will be aiming at the creeps mainly.
2. A spell that is instant cast can be combined with the Psi-fart to prevent stalling of your ship. Mobility will be the least of your worry if you are constantly on the move and smart to not stay behind too much.
3. Friendly fire you say? That means apart from killing enemy creeps, you can use it to kill your OWN creeps. While it gives you no money and kills, it would deny your opponent some farm to a certain extent.
[size=120]OK I get it I get it! What next?[/size]f (BULD) Constantly lay down storms and upgrade energy. A little later into the game when you can cast 3 storms in a row, this will be a cue when you start turning into a OP farmer. Do not be surprised when you are getting 3~4 times the amount of kills than your teammates later. This is NATURAL.
[size=120]And?[/size] Figure the rest on your own!
Just joking. The reason I wrote this article is so you don't need to. Generally once you reach 300 energy, it's time for 'fun'. Apart from warp(which I assume you have), warp technology will be favorable if your team is on the offensive position, else, you can skip it for later and keep upgrading your energy.
The Opening Standard closed opening is absolutely must. After that, depending on how well you farmed on your first farming run you will be choosing between:
1. Immediate warp storm----if you farmed over 200 minerals before 5 minutes, go for it! Get a warp(to get to the field fast) and a storm(for the storm) and start storming. You only have 1 storm initially, so choose your first psi-storm wisely. Predict where enemy creeps will come and BOOM! You will be left with 50 energy so stick with your teammates and shoot with them till you can lay down another storm for extra money. And upgrade energy when your team is retreating.
2. Extra lasers-----This might not be your fault, but if you have failed to gather enough minerals for a warp and a psi-storm before 5 minutes, it is VITAL to get 3 more laser upgrades to 1 shot level 2 creeps past the 2 minute mark. It is not a shame to be unable to gather enough minerals early, it can happen.
After that, it's straight forward. Upgrade as much energy as possible, and when you have extra minerals to boot, get warp technology. Warp in to the front, lay down as many storms as you can, and warp back to upgrade more and warp back to the front again. A few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals, added bonus if they are sending out on biters.
*Note: storms WILL loose their effectiveness against biters over time, so do not hesitate to lay down multiple storms to get rid of high level interceptors to prevent them to lay down too much damage!*
[size=120]Awesome! Anything else?[/size] (IMDE) Not much. Be it feedback or emp, once you get too much energy even when your energy returns to zero you will regenerate them fast enough to lay down storm after storm. Most annoying might be the lockdown, which will stop you from casting your delicious spells even if your have energy. But then, once it wears off you can immediately storm the hell out of everything.
In addition, caster carrier is quite weak in the beginning. You will be using every trick you have up your sleeve to hang in there before the goodies arrive. More on that later.
[size=120]Later? More like, NOW![/size] Yeah, "storm and storm and storm" pretty much covers up everything basic. I'm amazed how long I managed to drag it out. But apart from storm, there are a few important things that you should know. Some I have repeated in the OP ray guide, but I have to repeat them here:
Know where your enemies are Apart from turning enemies into red, enemy capital ships show up as a large blob of red which is fairly easy to spot. The next thing you should do is...count. Keep count the number of large dots are on the mini-map. If they are engaging your teammates or your creeps, they will show up. The best scenario is that you see 6 red blobs very close to your base with half your team occupying them while you hog a lot of farm. However what if some are missing on the mini-map? That is when you need to think of the possibilities...
1. They are afk/noobs and are still sitting in their base. A great scenario, but don't bet on it.
2. They are walking out from their base ready to give you a good spanking. Unless there are multiple mukes/void rays (yamato/plasma barrage/Bio-Plasma discharge) that is coming towards you, you can still get away safely.
3. They are in the void area where your creeps don't reach. They might trying to ambush you. You can usually notice this when you see 6 ships ahead and all of a sudden, half of them disappears backwards into the void.
OH SHIT! RUN! Knowing where your enemies absolutely helps you on this topic. For example, if you are getting hit by 2+ mukes, you will most likely be out of shields. But don't panic! First you need to know where the mukes come from---if all of them come from ahead of you(i.e. their base), you can probably run straight home like a little squirrel. But chances are, some of them are from behind you and if you just run straight, you are dead as they will intercept you, fire another muke to finish you off forever and ever.
Avoid enemies in a huge arc. If all of them are coming towards you, you can probably run towards one of their towers, past it (taking a few hits) and into the void where creeps doesn't reach. This gives you 2 advantage: The creeps doesn't harm you anymore, allowing your shields to moderately recharge and two, the enemies cannot see you while your creeps will be spotting for you. You can then choose to run along the side of the map sneakily to avoid them(if they don't do a wild guess and chase) or if they do bend towards the corner, get help. Keep your screen on them so you see which direction they're heading and use the minimap to issue orders for your ship and direct it to safety.
This is of course assuming your entire team are douche bags and won't warp in to save you. Once in the dark, if some of your teammates warp in they can help fend you off as well, sometimes even making a counter and kill.
Use ping Bling! How do you do that mini-map bling-bling thing which makes an alert and a sound? Hold alt and click on where you want the alert to appear. Don't spam it pointlessly! They are generally for the following purpose:
1. Alert and organizing teammates of a lone enemy ship for ganking 2. Responding to previous alert
3. Call for help. You probably need to type out, in caps, "HELP" along with the ping. Probably click it a few more times to depending how much you are panicking.
4. General alert of dangers, write something like "careful, all 6 enemies gathered there!" before doing the ping or your team will rush to their doom before you can say "don't go!"!
(WEEE)
The step-cept The carrier will be lacking in dps against other builds. To compensate for the lack of damage you are doing, it's time to call in some friends: the interceptors.
Many players make the mistake of launching ALL interceptors from afar towards enemy ships. WRONG! By doing this, you are making the following mistakes: 1. Your ship will slow down and come to a halt by the time all your biters launch, making you a sitting duck if exposed, or making you unable to catch up with your team and fire your lasers. Your biters are support roles. Lasers and missiles are what hurts early game. 2. Your biters are weak early. Doing this will allow your enemy to kill them off at leisure without worry. Free minerals for them, NOM.
That's where the move step-cept comes in. With the improved interceptor launching mechanism, it is POSSIBLE to launch your biters while keeping constant speed. Here is how you do it:
1. Make your ship move towards enemy
2. Press "R", and click on enemy ship like normal, but here comes the catch:
3. Immediately before you slow down, move again without launching all interceptors. Repeat step 1 and 2. You can launch all 10 by repeating this 5 times if done perfectly, without slowing down at all.
Added bonus if you can kill their biters first, and launch them at close range so your ship tanks the shots for your biters, allowing them to continue doing damage with your main ship.
The psi-fart Casing the electromagnet storm will cause your ship to come to a complete halt. While this is OK when you have your entire team covering for you(still no good), it will be DEADLY to you when you are running away, and wish to cast a storm behind you to destroy the biters chewing you off. You cannot afford to stop. You mustn't!
Master the psi-fart, a technique which allows you to cast psi storm on the move:
1. Cast electromagnetic storm
2. Immediately, hold down shift and right click. if you're on the offense, you can right click on the same spot you stormed and chase course later. If you are running, you will need to be very quick when clicking the opposite direction of your storm!
3. if needed, do a normal right click to cancel orders. The point of psi-fart is to maintain your speed, so mis-clicking empty space is OK. Practice makes perfect.
Forced stall Taking advantage of how the psi-storm makes your ship come to a complete halt, if you wish to go backwards but no matter what you are going in a huge arc, might help to come to a complete halt. Just storm anywhere.
[size=120]How to storm[/size] Remember how I said a few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals? How to place the storms is the key:
Notice how the creeps come from the base, the left tower and the right tower? And they all fly in formation in a straight line once launched? Picture a thick line along their routes. We can call each of them one 'lane'. Notice there is also three mini 'lanes' among each lane? You need to find that out first. Once you can picture a nice, straight line which will tell you where the creeps are going, you have got the basics!
1. Storm ahead. Since psi-storm does damage over time, the way to exert maximum damage is to storm ahead of said target, so they stay in the storm for the longest period of time. This is especially important towards the later of the game as creeps gain more and more hp.
2. Storm between you and the creeps. The psi-storm, once it scratches even one creep, will attract the entire lane(large) towards you. Storming in between you and the creeps will ensure every single creep in the lane pass through the storm and doom.
3. Storm where your creeps are passing! No you don't get money from it, but you will deny your enemy of creeps to kill and less money for them.
4. Storm yourself. Really, 160 damage is NOTHING. Even a void ray can stand there and eat the entire 160 damage while laughing. Biters can't. The point of this is to get rid of the high level biters that are swarming around you. If can't kill them with your first storm when they're nicely lined up, this will make a difference between kill or killed. You kill the biters? You eat less damage from them, at the cost of just 160 extra damage from yourself.
5. Death before dishonor! Since psi-storm does friendly damage, attempt suicide if you sure you're going to die. At least those scumbags won't get money when they killed you. And quit the game before your ship blows up so your teammates gets the bonus minerals split from you.
[size=120]Well...all you have been talking is storm. Where are the big guns?[/size](FUNN)
Since you will be focusing on your energy a lot, your physical dps will likely be lower than average. While barrage spam sounds fun, the 12 seconds stun time can actually be quite dangerous for you so make sure you know what you are doing! But if you really want a big gun...behold the ADS special:
Feedback + Storm + Barrage
Consuming a whopping 350 energy for this super combo, This combo can deal a maximum of 2560 damage on one target over 6 seconds with no penalty. If you have energy, add another round of psi storm, no, TWO more round of psi storms in your victim's way. Since feedback and storm are instant cast, you can chain it with barrage pretty darn well. And since you are a caster build the 12 second of stun time on barrage should regenerate you the majority of 350 energy back, making the ADS special quite spam-able.
[size=120]Your Natural Enemy[/size] (ENDD)
Your natural enemies:
1. Lockdown Destroyer. This is seriously PAINFUL since your build relies on spells so much. If this happens, quickly disengage and get away from said destroyer. Your spells do have higher range than lockdown anyways!
2. Team Feedback: Having an almost unlimited supply of energy can backfire on you sometimes. If your opponent has 2+ carriers with trigger-happy feedback, you will be taking a regular 600 damage every few seconds. Sine your energy is so high there really is no way to prevent this damage. Just get the heck out of there.
3. Early corruptors: What!? Yeah, corruptors, while they appear to be weak against psi-storm, they can take two storms each on the minimum. It is a huge waste to try storm them---abuse their slow speed and run away from them. Your storm are best saved for the creeps!
4. Rangers: Since most spells has short range ships with extreme range will screw you up pretty bad, especially at the 'warp back to upgrade' bit. Watch out.
5. Your own teammates: Even the mighty Darth Vadar's has his weakness: his legion of incompetent Storm Troopers. Get your own team of Jedi Knights while you fire up your psi-storm!
Happy hunting!
I don't understand how this build helps your allies in the long run in actually winning other than killing the most creeps out of everyone. Also, if your allies are also going for more of a support/farming role, meaning your team lacks strength in fights, it's not going to end well. I like the idea of using storm to farm and get a lot of money, but as the game progresses, you need other upgrades. I know you mentioned Feedback and Barrage, but I think that you might need these earlier. I'd get them earlier just in case, then only use storm if it turns out I don't need them.
A transition is possible and very easy for this build. Many times it ended up with me switching to level 20 interceptors halfway with the huge amount of money I have summed up from storms(and the other ceptor build guy in my team barely got level 12 once) I have worked this build with my team many times and we rarely get a disadvantage in a brawl. The storm really works well in splitting up players thus lowering their dps while my team balls up and unleash un-interrupted damage output. (mainly thanks to their reflex they have been learned in laddar games)
While barrage cannot upgrde their damage, having a certain carrier spam it on you can really, really hurt.
Wow. If you can transition into level twenty interceptors, that build MUST be pretty good.
I have a really good Leviathan build. It's a support role build meant to tank damage and protect your allies.
The idea is that you are fodder for your team, while also being able to damage others. The point of this build is to take a lot of damage, damage that could have been done to your allies, who will be playing a more offensive strategy.
Early game, you do not want to take damage. Just lend a hand here and there, stay together with your allies, and farm as usual. After you get rapid regeneration, you start tanking damage. Always go first into the fight, but make sure that you are not going in along. This way, you will be taking damage instead of your allies. This build is even better if you are being focused fired, so try to make yourself look like a juicy target.
Later on, after you get more armor and tentacle upgrades, don't be afraid to dive into a group of enemies, as long as your allies are right behind you. You become more and more powerful the more tentacle and armor upgrades you get. When you tank damage, be sure to use rapid regen. Keep using it as soon as the cooldown runs out if you have to. This keeps you in the battle, so you don't have to fall back to the Motehrship/CC. The enemies will, and when you outnumber then (you will with this build) push them back.
In late game, get corruption, another great support role ability. Coordinate abilities with your allies on one victim. They do not need to get armor, as you will be tanking a lot of damage. If the game continues, get spawn corruptors.
Again, the main idea is to use rapid regen in succession to gain a huge advantage in fights and to tank damage.
You allies can best support your build if they get their main ability (yamato cannon, plasma thing, acid thing, etc.) and continue to focus around damage dealing abilities and attacks. The best builds to support you are two speed and then yamato equivalent ability. This will make their farming more difficult, but they should get up four laser/tentacle upgrades and warp on their first trip to the Mothership/CC. Warp isn't necessary for them immediately. Throughout the game, they should get speed, energy, and ability upgrades. This will make them mobile "glass cannons", like the Hydralisk (low hp, high dps), but fast. Allies for one of each ship would be great. One BC, Carrier, Destroyer, and any other ship, paired with two Leviathans using this build would work well. They all have the same purpose, until late game, where the Destroyer would get Siege Mode. In Siege Mode, the Leviathans can protect then from fighters, and the Destroyer can kill the Mothership/CC, Warp Prisms/Science Vessels, or noobs hiding near the Mothership/CC. The BC and Carrier should otherwise get four lasers, then only upgrade energy and their yamato equivalent ability. Multiple blasts in a row will be essential to dishing out damage that the Leviathan cannot do until later on.
The best ratio of support to attack would be 2:4. A 3:3 would not work as well because three fodders absorbing damage is more than enough, and cuts back on the amount of ships dishing out damage.
-Get two speed, four tentacles, then wait to get warp and warp in on the ship closes to the front lines. This is pretty standard. -At about 300 minerals, warp back to the Mothership/CC and get constant mutation and rapid regeneration. Then, go back to the battle. -Using constant mutation, you won't have to go back to the Mothership/CC for a while. Buy another speed upgrade, four adrenaline gland upgrades, and one rapid regeneration upgrade when you can. This will leave you at a max of 300 energy with a faster rapid regen cool down. -Buy four armor upgrades. After this, continue to buy speed, tentacle, energy, and armor upgrades (do not buy organic carapace, use rapid regen for health). -If it goes this far into late game, warp back and get Corruption/Spawn Corruptors.
Any ideas/combinations with this build to make it better would be awesome!
only thing about this is armor really is wasted points for lev (+1 instead of +3 per point invested), really prefer more straightup health ups instead which also boosts ooc healing.
Also find the fact that tentacle range doesn't upgrade can be used to farm with your tentacles while kiting or firing on ships froma safe range with bile swarm. If the game makes it to lategame, going tanking for start then switching to upgraded bile swarm is great. Usually 2 speed, 4 tentacles, warp, come back around 500-600, get 1 more speed, rapid regen, movement buff, next time get additional bile, 1-2 regen ups, 3-4 mana, 3-4 health ups, and start dumping into range while keeping your tentacles on par to 1 shot creeps.
1. Introduction (INTR) 2. The Psi-Storm (PSII) 3. The build (BULD) 4. Important details (IMDE) 5. Micro technique and gimmick stuff (WEEE) 6. The ADS special (FUNN) 6. Natural enemy (ENDD)
(INTR) OK, although stating the obvious The carrier is the best ship for spell casting
Yeah, for real.
[size=120]So...What are we talking about?[/size] Since interceptors are greatly favored amongst many carrier players, many spells of the carriers have been overlooked. Look back in your past 10 games. How many barrage have been fired? Take a count at the feedback that's been used. When is the last time you see a vortex?
Waste! It's a waste! You are negating the most awesome part of the carrier by going pure ceptors, You are LIMITING YOURSELVES!
[size=120]Free your mind[/size] Apart from the closed opening for carrier, stop getting catapults! Ceptors are no fun anymore. You have wasted enough ceptors for the rest of your life. Time to learn something different:
[size=120]The Electromagnet Storm[/size] (PSII) But I prefer calling it the Psi-Storm.
What is it? The Psi-storm is an AoE spell of the carrier. It carries the following characteristics:
1. It deals gradual damage over a period of time. Precisely, 160 damage over 5 seconds.
2. It is instant cast.
3. It damages friendly units like other AoE spells.
How's it advantageous for you? The build for caster carrier revolves heavily around psi-storm. Over 80% of the game you will be using psi-storm over and over again, and be relying on it. Psi-storm consists of the following distinct advantage:
1. This spell does 160 damage on an area over a short period of time. It will kill small units quickily and swiftly, especially the creeps which gives you money. Also, it is of great use when helping an ally dealing with biters chasing them. While its damage is lampshaded by other unit's AoE, 160 is ALL you need through out the game as you will be aiming at the creeps mainly.
2. A spell that is instant cast can be combined with the Psi-fart to prevent stalling of your ship. Mobility will be the least of your worry if you are constantly on the move and smart to not stay behind too much.
3. Friendly fire you say? That means apart from killing enemy creeps, you can use it to kill your OWN creeps. While it gives you no money and kills, it would deny your opponent some farm to a certain extent.
[size=120]OK I get it I get it! What next?[/size]f (BULD) Constantly lay down storms and upgrade energy. A little later into the game when you can cast 3 storms in a row, this will be a cue when you start turning into a OP farmer. Do not be surprised when you are getting 3~4 times the amount of kills than your teammates later. This is NATURAL.
[size=120]And?[/size] Figure the rest on your own!
Just joking. The reason I wrote this article is so you don't need to. Generally once you reach 300 energy, it's time for 'fun'. Apart from warp(which I assume you have), warp technology will be favorable if your team is on the offensive position, else, you can skip it for later and keep upgrading your energy.
The Opening Standard closed opening is absolutely must. After that, depending on how well you farmed on your first farming run you will be choosing between:
1. Immediate warp storm----if you farmed over 200 minerals before 5 minutes, go for it! Get a warp(to get to the field fast) and a storm(for the storm) and start storming. You only have 1 storm initially, so choose your first psi-storm wisely. Predict where enemy creeps will come and BOOM! You will be left with 50 energy so stick with your teammates and shoot with them till you can lay down another storm for extra money. And upgrade energy when your team is retreating.
2. Extra lasers-----This might not be your fault, but if you have failed to gather enough minerals for a warp and a psi-storm before 5 minutes, it is VITAL to get 3 more laser upgrades to 1 shot level 2 creeps past the 2 minute mark. It is not a shame to be unable to gather enough minerals early, it can happen.
After that, it's straight forward. Upgrade as much energy as possible, and when you have extra minerals to boot, get warp technology. Warp in to the front, lay down as many storms as you can, and warp back to upgrade more and warp back to the front again. A few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals, added bonus if they are sending out on biters.
*Note: storms WILL loose their effectiveness against biters over time, so do not hesitate to lay down multiple storms to get rid of high level interceptors to prevent them to lay down too much damage!*
[size=120]Awesome! Anything else?[/size] (IMDE) Not much. Be it feedback or emp, once you get too much energy even when your energy returns to zero you will regenerate them fast enough to lay down storm after storm. Most annoying might be the lockdown, which will stop you from casting your delicious spells even if your have energy. But then, once it wears off you can immediately storm the hell out of everything.
In addition, caster carrier is quite weak in the beginning. You will be using every trick you have up your sleeve to hang in there before the goodies arrive. More on that later.
[size=120]Later? More like, NOW![/size] Yeah, "storm and storm and storm" pretty much covers up everything basic. I'm amazed how long I managed to drag it out. But apart from storm, there are a few important things that you should know. Some I have repeated in the OP ray guide, but I have to repeat them here:
Know where your enemies are Apart from turning enemies into red, enemy capital ships show up as a large blob of red which is fairly easy to spot. The next thing you should do is...count. Keep count the number of large dots are on the mini-map. If they are engaging your teammates or your creeps, they will show up. The best scenario is that you see 6 red blobs very close to your base with half your team occupying them while you hog a lot of farm. However what if some are missing on the mini-map? That is when you need to think of the possibilities...
1. They are afk/noobs and are still sitting in their base. A great scenario, but don't bet on it.
2. They are walking out from their base ready to give you a good spanking. Unless there are multiple mukes/void rays (yamato/plasma barrage/Bio-Plasma discharge) that is coming towards you, you can still get away safely.
3. They are in the void area where your creeps don't reach. They might trying to ambush you. You can usually notice this when you see 6 ships ahead and all of a sudden, half of them disappears backwards into the void.
OH SHIT! RUN! Knowing where your enemies absolutely helps you on this topic. For example, if you are getting hit by 2+ mukes, you will most likely be out of shields. But don't panic! First you need to know where the mukes come from---if all of them come from ahead of you(i.e. their base), you can probably run straight home like a little squirrel. But chances are, some of them are from behind you and if you just run straight, you are dead as they will intercept you, fire another muke to finish you off forever and ever.
Avoid enemies in a huge arc. If all of them are coming towards you, you can probably run towards one of their towers, past it (taking a few hits) and into the void where creeps doesn't reach. This gives you 2 advantage: The creeps doesn't harm you anymore, allowing your shields to moderately recharge and two, the enemies cannot see you while your creeps will be spotting for you. You can then choose to run along the side of the map sneakily to avoid them(if they don't do a wild guess and chase) or if they do bend towards the corner, get help. Keep your screen on them so you see which direction they're heading and use the minimap to issue orders for your ship and direct it to safety.
This is of course assuming your entire team are douche bags and won't warp in to save you. Once in the dark, if some of your teammates warp in they can help fend you off as well, sometimes even making a counter and kill.
Use ping Bling! How do you do that mini-map bling-bling thing which makes an alert and a sound? Hold alt and click on where you want the alert to appear. Don't spam it pointlessly! They are generally for the following purpose:
1. Alert and organizing teammates of a lone enemy ship for ganking 2. Responding to previous alert
3. Call for help. You probably need to type out, in caps, "HELP" along with the ping. Probably click it a few more times to depending how much you are panicking.
4. General alert of dangers, write something like "careful, all 6 enemies gathered there!" before doing the ping or your team will rush to their doom before you can say "don't go!"!
(WEEE)
The step-cept The carrier will be lacking in dps against other builds. To compensate for the lack of damage you are doing, it's time to call in some friends: the interceptors.
Many players make the mistake of launching ALL interceptors from afar towards enemy ships. WRONG! By doing this, you are making the following mistakes: 1. Your ship will slow down and come to a halt by the time all your biters launch, making you a sitting duck if exposed, or making you unable to catch up with your team and fire your lasers. Your biters are support roles. Lasers and missiles are what hurts early game. 2. Your biters are weak early. Doing this will allow your enemy to kill them off at leisure without worry. Free minerals for them, NOM.
That's where the move step-cept comes in. With the improved interceptor launching mechanism, it is POSSIBLE to launch your biters while keeping constant speed. Here is how you do it:
1. Make your ship move towards enemy
2. Press "R", and click on enemy ship like normal, but here comes the catch:
3. Immediately before you slow down, move again without launching all interceptors. Repeat step 1 and 2. You can launch all 10 by repeating this 5 times if done perfectly, without slowing down at all.
Added bonus if you can kill their biters first, and launch them at close range so your ship tanks the shots for your biters, allowing them to continue doing damage with your main ship.
The psi-fart Casing the electromagnet storm will cause your ship to come to a complete halt. While this is OK when you have your entire team covering for you(still no good), it will be DEADLY to you when you are running away, and wish to cast a storm behind you to destroy the biters chewing you off. You cannot afford to stop. You mustn't!
Master the psi-fart, a technique which allows you to cast psi storm on the move:
1. Cast electromagnetic storm
2. Immediately, hold down shift and right click. if you're on the offense, you can right click on the same spot you stormed and chase course later. If you are running, you will need to be very quick when clicking the opposite direction of your storm!
3. if needed, do a normal right click to cancel orders. The point of psi-fart is to maintain your speed, so mis-clicking empty space is OK. Practice makes perfect.
Forced stall Taking advantage of how the psi-storm makes your ship come to a complete halt, if you wish to go backwards but no matter what you are going in a huge arc, might help to come to a complete halt. Just storm anywhere.
[size=120]How to storm[/size] Remember how I said a few well placed storms will net you 300~700 minerals? How to place the storms is the key:
Notice how the creeps come from the base, the left tower and the right tower? And they all fly in formation in a straight line once launched? Picture a thick line along their routes. We can call each of them one 'lane'. Notice there is also three mini 'lanes' among each lane? You need to find that out first. Once you can picture a nice, straight line which will tell you where the creeps are going, you have got the basics!
1. Storm ahead. Since psi-storm does damage over time, the way to exert maximum damage is to storm ahead of said target, so they stay in the storm for the longest period of time. This is especially important towards the later of the game as creeps gain more and more hp.
2. Storm between you and the creeps. The psi-storm, once it scratches even one creep, will attract the entire lane(large) towards you. Storming in between you and the creeps will ensure every single creep in the lane pass through the storm and doom.
3. Storm where your creeps are passing! No you don't get money from it, but you will deny your enemy of creeps to kill and less money for them.
4. Storm yourself. Really, 160 damage is NOTHING. Even a void ray can stand there and eat the entire 160 damage while laughing. Biters can't. The point of this is to get rid of the high level biters that are swarming around you. If can't kill them with your first storm when they're nicely lined up, this will make a difference between kill or killed. You kill the biters? You eat less damage from them, at the cost of just 160 extra damage from yourself.
5. Death before dishonor! Since psi-storm does friendly damage, attempt suicide if you sure you're going to die. At least those scumbags won't get money when they killed you. And quit the game before your ship blows up so your teammates gets the bonus minerals split from you.
[size=120]Well...all you have been talking is storm. Where are the big guns?[/size](FUNN)
Since you will be focusing on your energy a lot, your physical dps will likely be lower than average. While barrage spam sounds fun, the 12 seconds stun time can actually be quite dangerous for you so make sure you know what you are doing! But if you really want a big gun...behold the ADS special:
Feedback + Storm + Barrage
Consuming a whopping 350 energy for this super combo, This combo can deal a maximum of 2560 damage on one target over 6 seconds with no penalty. If you have energy, add another round of psi storm, no, TWO more round of psi storms in your victim's way. Since feedback and storm are instant cast, you can chain it with barrage pretty darn well. And since you are a caster build the 12 second of stun time on barrage should regenerate you the majority of 350 energy back, making the ADS special quite spam-able.
[size=120]Your Natural Enemy[/size] (ENDD)
Your natural enemies:
1. Lockdown Destroyer. This is seriously PAINFUL since your build relies on spells so much. If this happens, quickly disengage and get away from said destroyer. Your spells do have higher range than lockdown anyways!
2. Team Feedback: Having an almost unlimited supply of energy can backfire on you sometimes. If your opponent has 2+ carriers with trigger-happy feedback, you will be taking a regular 600 damage every few seconds. Sine your energy is so high there really is no way to prevent this damage. Just get the heck out of there.
3. Early corruptors: What!? Yeah, corruptors, while they appear to be weak against psi-storm, they can take two storms each on the minimum. It is a huge waste to try storm them---abuse their slow speed and run away from them. Your storm are best saved for the creeps!
4. Rangers: Since most spells has short range ships with extreme range will screw you up pretty bad, especially at the 'warp back to upgrade' bit. Watch out.
5. Your own teammates: Even the mighty Darth Vadar's has his weakness: his legion of incompetent Storm Troopers. Get your own team of Jedi Knights while you fire up your psi-storm!
Happy hunting!
I don't understand how this build helps your allies in the long run in actually winning other than killing the most creeps out of everyone. Also, if your allies are also going for more of a support/farming role, meaning your team lacks strength in fights, it's not going to end well. I like the idea of using storm to farm and get a lot of money, but as the game progresses, you need other upgrades. I know you mentioned Feedback and Barrage, but I think that you might need these earlier. I'd get them earlier just in case, then only use storm if it turns out I don't need them.
A transition is possible and very easy for this build. Many times it ended up with me switching to level 20 interceptors halfway with the huge amount of money I have summed up from storms(and the other ceptor build guy in my team barely got level 12 once) I have worked this build with my team many times and we rarely get a disadvantage in a brawl. The storm really works well in splitting up players thus lowering their dps while my team balls up and unleash un-interrupted damage output. (mainly thanks to their reflex they have been learned in laddar games)
While barrage cannot upgrde their damage, having a certain carrier spam it on you can really, really hurt.
Wow. If you can transition into level twenty interceptors, that build MUST be pretty good.
It's imbal as hell. 1k cash in 1 minute = instant transtion into Lv.20 ceptors. Zedu patched and nerfed this build...*sniff* This build effectiveness has been cut down by at least 40% by estimation. Have yet to try if it is really that severe.
I reckon the fighters (creeps) are too weak in this, you don't really need to worry about lanes, or whether you are gonna get too swamped. You can even fly around the enemys defense turrets without taking too much damage.
they should make these ai units a bit stronger IMO, maybe even add a few little cruisers or something to go with the mobs to beef them up a bit. At the moment you can fly wherever you want, the lanes are too passive. It should be at least a little risky flying headlong into the enemies waves of fighters.
On January 12 2011 12:59 pookychoo wrote: I reckon the fighters (creeps) are too weak in this, you don't really need to worry about lanes, or whether you are gonna get too swamped. You can even fly around the enemys defense turrets without taking too much damage.
they should make these ai units a bit stronger IMO, maybe even add a few little cruisers or something to go with the mobs to beef them up a bit. At the moment you can fly wherever you want, the lanes are too passive. It should be at least a little risky flying headlong into the enemies waves of fighters.
I'm afraid Star Battle employs a totally different concept as DoTA, despite the many comparisons with the two. I'm sorry you don't get to enjoy this map the way you want, I suggest you try another.
I'd rather just provide my opinion on this map as I see it. If you don't like my opinion then you're welcome to disagree, as I disagree with your point of view that "Star Battle employs a totally different concept as DoTA". Lanes, creep waves, towers, unit upgrades, it is dota in space but with some minor differences, such as no respawn, upgrades instead of items etc.
Obviously the game does not have to be a direct mirror of DoTA, but there is a reason why DoTA was the most successful of the base defence maps, they crafted very challenging gameplay in a map that had interesting balance and was constantly updated. DoTA has an awesome metagame, in contrast to star battles.
Right now star battles is not that challenging, and could be surmised as 'gang bangs in space'. Really there is not much more skill to it than which team gets gang banged first. i.e. if a team does not work together correctly they will be overwhelmed. As much as you can say 'well players need to work together if they want to win' the reality is that if Star Battles is to be successful it needs to have deeper gameplay than that. There is hardly even any sense of territory in star battles, the only thing to worry about is the position of enemy ships.
If Star Battles is to remain relevant in current custom maps, then it would be due to these sort of considerations and constant tweakings to find a more challenging and deeper game. It doesn't need to be the same as DoTA, but many lessons can be learned from DoTA because it was a very well thought out game.
And it is also not to say I don't appreciate the game for what it is, I can see a lot of effort has put into the game, it is nicely polished and is fun to play. But feedback and refinement are necessary if Star Battle would become ever become a classic.
On January 11 2011 22:28 baconbits wrote: only thing about this is armor really is wasted points for lev (+1 instead of +3 per point invested), really prefer more straightup health ups instead which also boosts ooc healing.
Also find the fact that tentacle range doesn't upgrade can be used to farm with your tentacles while kiting or firing on ships froma safe range with bile swarm. If the game makes it to lategame, going tanking for start then switching to upgraded bile swarm is great. Usually 2 speed, 4 tentacles, warp, come back around 500-600, get 1 more speed, rapid regen, movement buff, next time get additional bile, 1-2 regen ups, 3-4 mana, 3-4 health ups, and start dumping into range while keeping your tentacles on par to 1 shot creeps.
I see your point, but using rapid regen to heal yourself and getting health regen upgrades is more of a waste of money. They do the same thing and therefore you have no purpose getting both.
Armor is weaker for the Leviathan, but depending on what is going on, you may need the armor. If you want to transition out of tanking damage, then stop buying armor. I agree with that. But if you are still going to be focused primarily on tanking damage, get armor. I know it's only +1, but it helps a lot if your tanking damage.
With regards to the most recent changes, the Destroyer now is not very powerful. The Raven seems mostly balanced, and if it is focused it loses health very quickly. I like it, it adds more teamwork into the game.
The recent patch was pretty interesting. The deduction on Carrier's hp really emphasizes its role as a caster. The Raven is pretty good. With good farming, the Raven can truly contribute greatly to the team's survival. Albeit Raven is a class that can neither deal damage nor does it have any self-defense spells, and therefore is unsuitable to the more aggressive players such as myself who love to grab kill counts. Tricky class, but a lot more fun than Void ray in my opinion.
If you choose to pick Raven, you have to have the mindset of supporting the team into victory, not grabbing kills. Albeit I did manage to grab 3 kills on my first try with the Raven lol.
raven can shut down other ships with blackout/emp and gets a decent nuke even if its slow to hit its mark. Railgun needs to be changed somehow, to make it more attractive, but all in all a pretty balanced and definately support ship
On January 14 2011 13:28 baconbits wrote: raven can shut down other ships with blackout/emp and gets a decent nuke even if its slow to hit its mark. Railgun needs to be changed somehow, to make it more attractive, but all in all a pretty balanced and definately support ship
Maybe there should be an upgrade that removes the Railgun's cool down? Like the upgrade that removes the cool down from warp from the Carrier? That would make the Railgun way more attractive.
On January 14 2011 13:28 baconbits wrote: raven can shut down other ships with blackout/emp and gets a decent nuke even if its slow to hit its mark. Railgun needs to be changed somehow, to make it more attractive, but all in all a pretty balanced and definately support ship
Maybe there should be an upgrade that removes the Railgun's cool down? Like the upgrade that removes the cool down from warp from the Carrier? That would make the Railgun way more attractive.
I personally think it's the charge-up that should be removed.
i just use raven now. usually just 4 lasers and 2 speed. get 200 for Point defence drone get to 400 energy. then upgrade shield and shield transfer speed
On January 13 2011 08:17 pookychoo wrote: I'd rather just provide my opinion on this map as I see it. If you don't like my opinion then you're welcome to disagree, as I disagree with your point of view that "Star Battle employs a totally different concept as DoTA". Lanes, creep waves, towers, unit upgrades, it is dota in space but with some minor differences, such as no respawn, upgrades instead of items etc.
OK, firstly, allow my apologize for totally rejecting your thoughts out instead. That was my bad. I'm not open enough. I have no excuses but ok, here's my two cents.
To be honest, when DoTA came out, SB is nowhere out, and thus I had another map in mind when I do the comparison as in why I don't like DoTA: Temple Siege (UMS game in BW, my favourite so far)
DoTA has a threshold too high for newbs DoTA is a very challenging map, with an extremely steep learning curve. Hard to kick off, very newb unfriendly. Also, it seems games like DoTA always have a 'best build' where a hero totally ignores one or two of his abilities and simply does not upgrade it for 'best performance'. That alone took out a lot of the fun from those who like to mess around and just have fun instead of serious competition..
Temple Siege? Newb to this game? Get the rine! Want a different experience? Hey, try that ling! Almost all heroes works. True there are some heroes that's made for pros, but all heroes are play-able by newbs. All the upgrades are the same, all the hotkeys are the same. No need to remember the exhaustively long list for each individual hero. In fact, if you are lazy at learning you can simply 'power play' all the heroes(investing everything in attack/defense without spells). You still will not get behind too much. In TS, all you get is a hero, somewhere to upgrade, and a whole base to protect. The graphics are not as good, in fact it's ugly, but hey, it works better. Just like how bnet is working without bnet2's flashy graphics(and better in this case!) No, nothing else, you don't get...
The scary items I totally dislike the item ideas in DoTA. My first experience in DoTA is sitting there, reading up all the information and description of the items, and got confused. Too many things to read and if I don't read...
The pros hate you Unlike in a game of Temple Siege if you f**k up in DoTA all other pros will yell at you 'GTFO YOU FCUKING NOOB! STOP FEEDING THE ENEMY *insert various rage message here*' The pros will abuse and insult you to no end until either: 1) you curl up in a corner and cry like the little girl that you once were, or 2) they get a heart attack first.
TS? Yes, feeding happens. We still will hate the noobs in our team but hey, they stay dead. We don't get too angry over, and the noob gets less abuse. Both side benefit from less negative emotion. And if it is stressful for you...
StarBattle/Temple Siege makes you a goddamn hero Remember how to upgrade in SB and TS? 4lasers/1 weapons(as lot)---bam. Headshot every shot. Look at those creeps, you measly, useless creep. Tremble in fear under my super powerful laser (blades)! This is actually one of the funnest part of both games---you get to squish those creeps no end as though as they are something very inferior than you.
Be honest here: who haven't experienced a day with lots of difficulties and pant up stress? What better to release those stress than a curb stomp battle right at the start? Those mindless zombies are the best target. Mindless zombies in space? Double awesome!
DoTA offers you none of those experiences. The spawns will own you as though as they got them on a hotkey. You're going down, down, down, down-and you just can't believe you haven't even made a kill! It's less fun that way until in late game you approach the status of a god where spawns can't harm you anymore. Then it's only the players. But here's a twist, in SB and TS...
The empire creeps strike back As the game progresses the creeps get stronger and stronger, and that's where the pain starts. Ideally the maximum fun starts. Apart from dealing with the players trying to split your hull in half you also have to be on a lookout for the creeps around taking down your engine without you noticing and by the time you realize it, BAM! Too late. This is similar to the start of a DoTA game, so as a thought you probably be thinking: what the hell, closey, you're not making any sense! You said you hate it a while ago but now you said this is good? That's because...
The difficulty increase is gradual Yeah, the tough problems comes at you one by one. Here's a list of basic problems you have to deal with DoTA in the beginning, ALL AT ONCE. Have fun with your headache: 1) The heroes 2) Their upgrades 3) The spawns 4) The lanes 5) The items
It's like having to jump straight to quadratics when you just learned division and multiplication. Your maths teacher now tells you to learn algebra, the concept of square root and graph plotting all at once. Overnight. Test tomorrow. Whoever fails the test will be crucified.
Apart from item 5, SB and TS have the same problems they have to face, but here's the timeline of when those problems you have to deal with:
1) Beginning: the heroes(but really, even the stupidest of the noobs figured out the rine is probably the easiest to play, some how. 2) After game start: the lanes(but that can be dealt with a "WHERE ME GO?" and since the creeps spawn immediately, it's pretty darn obvious. unlike in DoTA you wait for a whole damn minute without creeps. 3) When you first get your upgrade: the upgrades (now what am I supposed to do with all those bonus I stashed up from mindlessly killing all those poor creeps? Since the farming part is so mindless, you should have had plenty of time to figure out what you want or at least ask about it. 4) After game passes 20 minutes: the creeps. You have had a lot of skirmishes with your enemy, and you survived. You are warmed up and starting to get bored of this PvP action, BAM, spawn upgrades, in your face. You are suddenly swarmed by a bunch of monsters that are capable of harming you(but still not out right killing you), a new joy is found.
And even, the solutions are actually quite clear and easy to figure out without going online to read a guide or something, unlike DoTA. Especially TS---I have never seen any website dedicated to people discussing and posting strategies and build. They are so daylight clear there is no need of such thing.
Being killed by the creeps is not so sad in SB/TS 'cause it is so rare it's actually funny. In DoTA...more rage and insults from your team. Also, in SB/TS the lanes are actually not as critical to DoTA as one has no limiting lanes----you see there, people likes to be free. Who here never had the dream of flying at least once, even in your childhood? SB won at this.
In TS, the map is relatively small and each lane is equally accessible, there is no problem with that. DoTA lanes are just...here my complaints:
1. They're too far apart. I went to the left most lane only to find that there's another hero kill stealing all my kills, so I want to go to the middle lane. I walk all the way there, only to find I am a bunch of levels behind already.
2. The graphics are obstructing the lanes. I can't really tell if that is a path at all, or is it just a decoration? The map makers spent too much effort in making the map look nice the way ACTIVEVISION blizzard spent in making bnet2 look nice. I am totally confused with the hidden lanes, the secret lanes, and...am I supposed to hide in this bush? does my opponent get vision across them?(You know, like the fog and bushes in melee...)
Speaking of lanes, one thing that bugs me no end in DoTA is...
The mobility is limited Playing DoTA makes me feel like Jesus. I have to walk everywhere. In SB you get the handy 'warp' which you can just jump right into the fry and fire your lasers away. In TS if you managed to capture the warp game you can also teleport there to get into the fry as quick as possible. DoTA? Walk, with the occasional blink/teleport to make you walk there faster. The whole 5 seconds without actions bores me.
Also, in TS there are some extremely mobile character that can also get away without warp. Do you get a hero that moves as fast as a hellion in the beginning of the game? Just watching the mutant zip across the map in TS makes me smile from the bottom of my heart.
The game is evolving The biggest thing that puts TS the top fav. map of mine is that in high levels of play, everything works. You want a power rine? It works. A spell rushing rine? Also works! What? You wanna go insane with a rine with lots of HP ups? Still works! You are free to do whatever you want as long as you know what you are doing. You are totally free and unbound. SB as long as you know when to run you are even more free. DoTA? I'm sure there's a pile of 'useless' to 'rarely used' spells/abilities. Don't lie.
The end should be quick What more depressing to watch your enemy tear you your flesh off bit by bit with a pair of red-hot pliers until you die? If you have to die, a swift one is more favorable.
The base in DoTA takes freakin' forever to kill compared to SB and TS. OK the last build takes quite long to kill for all 3 games but seriously, the defense buildings are just standing there without dying even if you hack and shoot with your BFS and BFG for a whole minute. You have the BFG. You owned your opponents so much that they have to hide in their base and treble under your icy glar. You want carnage, you want blood, WHY AREN'T THOSE BUILDINGS FALLING! It's frustrating. The enemies also have it tough. They know they can't go out to farm, and they have to wait for you to enter their base to allow them a chance to kill you the ultimate big-bad.
Not a chance. They have to wait for a long time without being able to farm/fight until you (finally) break through the front gate. According to research being unable to do anything in a game is a very big reason people dislike it. Stun is one thing, the 'sitting in base waiting for you to break in' is another. Towers in SB and TS goes down in a 'poof!' for those who have the advantage. The wait time is cut down by a lot and and the loosing side can hop into action again.
DoTA is too competitive OK I'm kicking TS out of the equation as well as it is no better than DoTA in this case, but DoTA is way too competitive. If I want to compete in SC I'd play league, but after that when I want to fly a ship in my ship so I can relax, star battle is the way to go. Sorry, DoTA but I simply can't relax and mess around without being insulted into submission. I value my life a lot and don't want its last moments to be a heart attack.
TL;DR: sorry I'm too tired to write a summary. Better go back up and read it whoel!
The problems with star battle are quite numerous still, but one of the biggest issues is spawning creeps based on the current number of them. The ideal position for your team is to camp before the enemy towers, if you can hold out there, the enemies cannot farm, and your team grabs an absurd number of kills. Then if you can coordinate a retreat as to not lose anyone, the game is done. Your team has all the abilities, they are still farming theirs. You go back to their side, farm more. Farm more. Farm more. Your team has like 200+ kills per player, they have like 80. Best example of being able to sit was after we got our abilities, our destroyers just spammed mines in the front, they couldn't kill one of us if they didnt want to take ~4000 damage from cruising through the minefield. So we just camped and farmed. Raven right now is really overpowered. All you need is EMP, Blackout, reactor upgrades, and then you just spam EMP. It can disable the whole enemy team's abilities. Blackout is a super versatile skill, it can be used to shut the most damaging player down in a team fight, it can be used to make sure that you get the kill on the enemy by disabling warp, it can be used to save allies by disabling the voidray or longest ranged enemy. Raven also has a great turn rate, even if it feels a tad slow. PDD is also a nice skill, but it doesn't fire fast enough to be able to deal with all the shots. Also you can just EMP the enemy raven so that he can't PDD. Creeps don't really do anything but be farmed in the early game, and even to the lategame they are only really dangerous in large numbers, caused by chasing someone a long way into their territory. I think people should stop drawing parallels to DotA, as Star Battle is clearly more of a game of Battleships or Battle Tanks. However yes, having faster games are nice, but it very often turns into who can camp outside the other team's base first, and then 10-20 minutes of the other team trying to claw their way back into the game, either following with a loss, or the team that was ahead getting too greedy and losing a few ships. I'll just go into Battle Tanks compared to Star Battle, under the same comparisons that closey makes. Learning Curve Battle Tanks had a pretty low learning curve. You had to figure out how to buy weapons, but considering you sat in the shops at the start, if you can't figure out that you have gold and should USE it at the start, then... *sigh* Other than that, you had to learn that creeps did something pretty big. Your shots didn't immedately shoot the enemy hero the moment he got into range, it fired at random enemies inside the weapon's range. So in a fight of you vs the enemy and 5 creeps, you were at a big disadvantage unless you could clean those creeps up fast. Then there were control points, which basically were moderately easy to defend, but also pretty easy to avoid getting stomped at. Overall, it took about 1 bad game for a new player to understand the basics. Items: There are an awful lot of numbers on the battle tanks items, due to the fact that it had weapon range, cooldown, damage, and DPS numbers, as well as cost. But really all a new player needed to do was buy random weapons. There were some equipments later that were good, such as speed upgrades. Other than that you had to get somewhat familiar with the commonly used tanks.
The pros hate you You fail to realize that bad players exist in star battle as well. They are the guys who charge into 3 others to 'save' the guy whose shields ran out, then complain that they had no help when they died. Then they leave. Before you can tell them how stupid they were. In battle tanks, bounty earned is based on the value of their tank as well as their KD. So feeders arent worth as much money. That being said, it's still gamebreaking to play 5v4, in most cases.
Being a Hero You can own creeps really badly in battletanks, but early on the creeps can own your low HP right back. So you had to sit behind your creeps, but you killed theirs quickly.
Creeps The creeps in battle tanks gained 10% attack and 10% armor every 5 minutes (at least if you held 3/6 control points, you got more if you held more, and less if you held less), and players could spend extra money to upgrade them further. They take damage, so you have to worry about them at all points in the game. They aren't just free money when alone with a hero.
Difficulty increase: At the start, you can get 6 different tanks. One of them is a really fragile support unit. Another is the Scout, a fast, cheap, and fragile unit. Another is called a Light Tank. Since this is battle TANKS, most people figure out they can just get the light tank. Plus they can see what everyone else is doing. Next there is the Gyrocopter, which is flying but weaker than the light tank. After that there is the medivac, which is semi-support, also flying but a bit more expensive than gyro or light. After that there is the demolisher, which buying it means you have very crappy weapons. All weapons have their range, cooldown, DPS, and damage written on it, and there is no fog, so you can read your enemies items, rather than just catch glimpses. Almost any skill works on a tank, but most players pick the right abilities, IE the stun and nuke, and something else. You just don't be dumb and stick to your creeps, and you are fine, mostly. There are lanes, however, there is a control point teleport to get to the other lane from your lane quite quickly. So mobility is somewhat limited, but there had to be an advantage to flying tanks.
The game of ship battle tbh isn't evolving as far as I can see. The most recent thing was the fact that people go ranged in the late game. In battle tanks, every tank has its use within a certain price range. So a Light Tank (costing 800) will get trashed by a Heavy Tank (costing 5500). But by then you should have gotten a new tank already. Players will be helpful and tell you that you should get a new tank.
The one issue with battle tanks is that games can take ages. Control points give 4% HP regen in the area to the team that controls the point, and then once you lose the control points, you have laser towers that take a while to kill. However even a long siege has to be undertaken with care, I've lost games after like 30 minutes of holding control points because one player got to farm so many creeps, and people threw themselves away, so a defender got a titan (most expensive tank, costs 35000) and we suddenly had issues killing him, and he slowly took back the control points, and beat us. However combat is fast, so it's not chasing players for half the map.
Competetive There is a league to Battle Tanks, however the average player can play the game with other public players and feel perfectly fine. There is a considerable skill cap, due to the maneuvering of the tank to hit the desired targets and no other targets. I've played with some pretty good players, and they can demolish most pubs, but the better ones can at least perform decently against them.
TL;DR: Don't use DotA as a comparison to Star Battle, use Battleships or Battle Tanks (and Battle Tanks is the more Newb friendly map.
On January 18 2011 09:49 closey wrote: I totally agree----SB and DoTA is totally differen't. Stop comparing them!
^ Second this.
Both games are on different game engines with different level of graphics. Gameplay wise both are also rather different.
I have one last thing to add on this topic: If you still want to compare SB and DoTA treating they are the same game, then Western chess and Chinese chess are the same thing because both their objective are to take out their king.
For the longest time I thought that kill count and rank was saved game to game, so I played trying to get mine up, until I realized this wasn't true. SO I stopped playing to focus on ladder some more.. =/
It would be really awesome if we could get some kind of system like that implemented, but don't know if it's possible with custom games.
If you want one indication of how epic this is, it goes on for 1 hour and 49 minutes. This isn't 1 hour and 49 minutes of one dude just refusing to die because he lost in the first 10 minutes (SC2 equivalent would be Terran just lifting up all their bases and settling on islands and making lol amount of turrets), this is 1 hour and 49 minutes of good-solid play. Most of the time is spent at 5v6, 5v5, 4v5 and 4v4. Very little time, relatively, is spent with one team having a solid advantage and then steam rolling. Most of this game is played in the vein of eeking out tiny advantages and then taking a slight lead, all in the knowledge that if you make a mistake you will be behind. Definitely check it out if you want some good entertainment and also for your computer to lag (so many chrono rifts!)
Had a game where my teammates just follow me (BC) around for ages. They all get picked off because they simply dont farm anything. I manage to get 2 kills and 2 others get lucky with a kill aswell before they all die.
So its me as a battlecruiser vs a destroyer and a raven. They are way more powerfull but I manage to get some nice missleupgrades and all the self-defence abilities. They get a little overconfident at some point and the raven dies, with the destroyer at 50% hp no shields. I have the exact same hp shields and start the chase. We both use our defenses and we kill eachother at the exact same second. Only thing is, that his last hit registerd first so on paper i lost
Was a crazy game, most of the players from the other team stayed the full 50 minutes to watch.
Raven is my kind of class. Step in the right direction for this game IMO, I've always wanted a way to be more useful in helping the team other than positioning myself between ships. For this same reason I also feel that the Voidray is terrible for this game, it completely destroys the positioning aspect to it as you have targeted damage. Couple this with the fact that you move faster than everyone and you have some pretty retarded shit.
Also that video was hilarious, especially #8 - Thou shalt not save noobs, I learned that lesson the hard way, warp in, take fire hes running away, then pulls back to help me fight when hes on like 30%hp and ends up dying ><.
On January 14 2011 13:28 baconbits wrote: raven can shut down other ships with blackout/emp and gets a decent nuke even if its slow to hit its mark. Railgun needs to be changed somehow, to make it more attractive, but all in all a pretty balanced and definately support ship
Maybe there should be an upgrade that removes the Railgun's cool down? Like the upgrade that removes the cool down from warp from the Carrier? That would make the Railgun way more attractive.
I personally think it's the charge-up that should be removed.
Both is fine, the problem is that you really need to get quite close to the enemy to fire it. Since the raven is more of a support vessel it would be better to increase the range so you can stay further back and heal your allies but still are able to cause some damage.
Welcome ladies and gentleman, to the Stock Exchange center of the Star Battle universe.
Today we are proud to have the participation of the following major enterprise to have their stocks to be exchanged in our premise!
Destroyer Corp. has undergone a major management change but as one of the oldest and largest major player on the field it still holds strong in terms of difficulties. Their corporate CEO, Mr. Radar, claims that he has good vision ahead of time and will show a way out of the valley and make a rebound in their stock price by the end of this year.
Battle Cruiser Inc. has been facing a lot of difficulties lately as two of their esteemed directors, Emma M. Patterson and Patrick D. Daemon left to work for Raven.com. and were replaced by Mr. Lockdown and S. Sweep. Their CEO, Mr. Yamato claims the everyone are working getting along but rumors have said the two new comers have yet to be accepted by the majority of the staffs.
Leviathan and Hell GmbH's revenue have skyrocketed last month with the miraculous recovery of their CEO from his illness, and have been on a frenzy on their operations. With their recent acquisition of Hell Ltd. Leviathan have decided to be listed on the SBEX.
Carrier and interceptor Ltd. have took a slight plummet last month and have fired around 1,000 staffs in their shields department. However as one of the oldest companies it still holds strong amongst competitors.
Void Ray Inc. have made a breakthrough in their charge technology and have been rising in popularity amongst domestic users. Seeing this as their chance their CEO decided it is time to get themselves listed on the SBEX.
Raven.com started off as a small research firm and decided to be listed when their invitation to Emma M. Patterson and Patrick D. Daemon got answered. They have since been attacking furiously at the high-end of the technological market. There were rumors of a scam within raven.com but it still did not affect their still growing share of the market.
On January 30 2011 16:17 vectorix108 wrote: hmm this new patch makes the range build pretty much useless... It makes me sad
How so? It costs more per upgrade, but since it also increases the range by more, it's cheaper up to a certain point.
Well with this new patch the first range upgrade is 50, then 100, 200, 400 then 800. I don't think anyone is going to go beyond 400, really.
That means the max range you can get is +4, combined with your original range can give you +13 range, which is quite long...
...
Until you see someone +17 range from pre patch. It is absolutely imbalanced'ly powerful as it can kite everything---EVERYTHING. Including spells, pdd, EVERYTHING. Laser and missile boat back then was dominant, and nobody cast spells. The destroyer and void ray who can't upgrade their secondary weapon's range was totally trash...
On January 30 2011 16:17 vectorix108 wrote: hmm this new patch makes the range build pretty much useless... It makes me sad
How so? It costs more per upgrade, but since it also increases the range by more, it's cheaper up to a certain point.
Well with this new patch the first range upgrade is 50, then 100, 200, 400 then 800. I don't think anyone is going to go beyond 400, really.
That means the max range you can get is +4, combined with your original range can give you +13 range, which is quite long...
...
Until you see someone +17 range from pre patch. It is absolutely imbalanced'ly powerful as it can kite everything---EVERYTHING. Including spells, pdd, EVERYTHING. Laser and missile boat back then was dominant, and nobody cast spells. The destroyer and void ray who can't upgrade their secondary weapon's range was totally trash...
Its actually 10/11 for laser/missiles, with +4 since you start at 6/7 respectively.
Yeah balance wise I agree with the range nerf. However I kinda miss it because it was the only safe build when joining a pub game with an entirety of strangers as it was a very solo-type build. Now, I only play with party.
I think the range changes were quite ok, yet Carrier still seems so very powerful to me.
Ok, it shifted my Battle Cruiser build a lot though. Previously I mainly tryed to get missile damage to >1000/Saliva and combine it with huge range, now the range is a little more limited. But that's still fine for it imo, few other people will go up to the 400 mineral upgrade simply because it's of few use for any other ship. Leviathian, Destroyer and Rays only get +Range for one of their attacks, for Raven it's really useless and Carrier usually go for interceptors anyways.
Now, since there's a rather clear cap for range for it, I just keep pimping missles and now always spend the money to keep one-hitting NPC fighters. Previously I only did so for the first 10 minutes and kept the lasers just updated for two-hitting. Also I add much more armor to it now.
Found a moment where to use an enemy nuke perfectly today, though a lot of luck was incorporated in order to make it a full success (insta kill and surviving), watch it yourself :D
Star Battle trailer (Starcraft 2 UMS map) by OldEnt (me) on YouTube
Star Battle is a custom map (UMS) for Blizzard Entertainment's StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty made by zedu. Command powerful space warships and work with your teammates in order to win victory over opposing team. Map supports up to 12 players.
I've decided to share with you a couple of the most memorable scenes of my recent games. Most of the shots are either from inhouse or team vs random (pub) matches. I am a Raven pilot (name OldEnt), but sometimes I play Battlecruiser or Carrier in public games.
Now, go and score some epic kills! Be nice to people, Have Fun and Good Luck!
---
Fonts used: Starcraft and Roddenberry by Neale Davidson.
Music: 0:00-02:11: takeon8 - "Orchestral inspired by Starcraft II" 02:12-06:46: Level 80 Elite Tauren Chieftain - "Terran Up the Night" 06:49-11:14: MahmoudAltaf - "StarCraft 2 Trailer (New Composed Music)" 11:15-14:55: zero-project - "Benedictus"
Nicely done Ent. Also to those interested. We're tying to get a Starbattle Tournament going on among the various solidly formed and not so solidly formed teams with my team being one of them.To those who play this in public matches (which involves random team set ups) You guys should try arranged team matches (AKA:In houses).Sometimes we do those In houses with people gathered off from the Starbattle channel for a general organized in house for the Professional In house set ups #deicide is where we set these up where the decent to downright godlike players are located.
I know I could have just posted this in the Bnet forums but then that site is full of noobs.So I thought TL was the better option.Because seriously we need guys like you to make it more interesting.In houses aren't fun when there aren't enough good players to go around. :D
Thank you Merchant of Death. Next and shorter video should be done "soon". As for the tournament, did you posted on playstarbattle.com forum? This is the first place to be. Cheers!
Stats are in My Documents-->SC2-->Accounts-->Find your account by guessing-->whatever that folder inside is-->Banks-->One of the folders holds the Star Battle data (protected ofc)
We are organising a Star Battle Tournament on EU servers soon. We're gonna have live casting, lots of competitive games and more! I hope you'd be interested in joining the fun For more info check out this: http://playstarbattle.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1732
On April 11 2011 21:23 SBTournament wrote: Hi, Susi here
We are organising a Star Battle Tournament on EU servers soon. We're gonna have live casting, lots of competitive games and more! I hope you'd be interested in joining the fun For more info check out this: http://playstarbattle.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1732
Looking for NA Star Battlers that are actually decent and would like to play with other people who understand the ships and teamwork. This isn't an organized IH thing and you don't have to be a super pro moonwalker or 2200 master and we don't care about composition - you can pick whatever you'd like. We're only looking for fun people to pub with who weren't dropped on their heads as a baby.
Fucking around and lollygagging is welcomed, just don't be a solo pub hero VR or 1.31 Destroyer and expect us to play with you again. >.>
I played this a couple of times during the last week, i really like it (it feels like a kind of dota.. which is creepy because that also means it's addictive).
I want to find more guy to play it with and learn, and eventually form up a team. My availability is generally EU but i can also get a NA account to play it .
On June 20 2011 06:47 MESeidel wrote: Does one know how I can reactive the interface (scoreboard and stuff) I clicked it away but didn't memorize the hotkeys...
Type -uiconfig in chat.
On June 23 2011 00:38 Pika Chu wrote: I want to find more guy to play it with and learn, and eventually form up a team. My availability is generally EU but i can also get a NA account to play it
That's what i'm doing, but it's slow . I'm trying to find a couple of better players to play with so i can actually see how weak i am and learn more and faster .
And if i could get some guys from tl to play with, that would be even better .
This map has potential, there are so many players, each time i join a game it gets full in a sec, plenty of players and growing i think. Maybe it's the new dota for sc2 that we were all afraid of? )
bump for great justice! friend and I are looking to join some kind of IH team..though I am not sure that there are any currently being run from TL ( I didn't read the whole thread ). Both 2200 Random players fully capable of playing any ship.
PM if you want to do some pick ups or something sometime!
On June 28 2011 04:56 turamn wrote: bump for great justice! friend and I are looking to join some kind of IH team..though I am not sure that there are any currently being run from TL ( I didn't read the whole thread ). Both 2200 Random players fully capable of playing any ship.
PM if you want to do some pick ups or something sometime!
On June 23 2011 18:14 Pika Chu wrote: That's what i'm doing, but it's slow . I'm trying to find a couple of better players to play with so i can actually see how weak i am and learn more and faster .
And if i could get some guys from tl to play with, that would be even better .
There is star battle ih chat channel on NA server. :') EU players use star battle channel and clans channels mostly
All players are welcomed. If you do not have team we will give you one!
How to sign up? Just post your in game name and identifier in tournament thread. Game experience info is welcomed but not necessary. Tournament host will find you a team, maybe even make you a captain!
What if I have team? Pick a captain of your team and let him post list of members in tournament thread. Captain must give his identifier as well. If you do not have full 6-player team do not worry - tournament host will find you more teammates.
Will there be any prizes? Yes! Check out tournament threads. Elite Void Ray, Elite Battlecruiser and Elite Raven models as well as special ranks were prizes in previous tournaments
I do not have much team vs team experience... You will be given captain, team, time to train together before tournaments and most and foremost support from experienced players. Visit star battle chat channel (set "auto join private channels" in game options) and ask for inhouse (team vs team). Many high-level players use TeamSpeak 3 so be sure to install it. Voice communication greatly increases combat effectiveness. Microphone is not required.
If there are any TL'ers who are interested in participating in the tournament, please contact me. My friends and myself are forming a team, but of us, there are only 4. We're going to start practicing ASAP, so the sooner you can contact me, the better.
PM me your preferred/main ship if you're interested.
Yeah i tried to play some IH but on EU at least, people mainly play between themselves (known people) rarely picking someone who they don't know. Mostly i've been playing with Grizzly (who i think he's a great player) and his team.
Unfortunately no confirmed info about NA Tournament stream. Time is 20 Central Europe Summer Time. 14:00 EDT (US Eastern Daylight Time) 13:00 CDT (US Central Daylight Time) 12:00 MDT (US Mountain Daylight Time) 11:00 PDT (US Pacific Daylight Time) 18:00 UTC (Coordinated Universal Time) 19:00 CET (Central Europe Time) 20:00 CEST (Central Europe Summer Time)
First day of Star Battle NA Tournament 3.0 has concluded. Teams which advanced to semifinals are: EU Ware Peagons, Hackers, NukkakE and Infamous. All day 2 matches are BO3.
Tonight the showcase event "Grand Masters of Star Battle" will take place. The event will feature 4 show matches with very diverse setups where the best and most famous players of the custom map "Star Battle" show what the game is all about in a fun way.
Star Battle is one of the most popular custom maps for over a year now. The game features a 6v6 battle between capital ships in a DOTA like fashion.
Some info about the event: - The event will be casted, trolled and streamed live here: http://www.own3d.tv/StarBattle - Twelve great Star Battle players will fight each other, the best of both the NA as well as the EU server. - The event starts at 19:00 CET / 1pm EST and will take around 2 hours. - The mapmaker himselft will also play in the event. Zedu thus far has always remained anonymous but for the first time will play himself.
17-18 December 2011: Star Battle 3G Tournament (EU Battle.net) - This is a fun tournament and it is highly recommended to be played drunk. You may not drink and drive but you can drink and kill... noobs
21-22 January 2012: Star Battle NA Tournament 5.0 (NA Battle.net) - NA SBT 5.0 is fourth official SB tournament on NA Battle.net.
winter/spring 2012: First StarCraft II Star Battle World Tournament - the very special event which is possible thanks to our awesome community.
------------------------------
2.
Grand Masters of Star Battle has concluded! Enjoy watching archived streams of 5 games (4 planned + 1 additional with audience). Over 70 people watched event live (at peak over 80).
For comprehensive list of our tournaments see tournaments page on our new Star Battle wiki. NA5 will be 9th tournament and the 10th organized event overall in the history of Star Battle, excluding the WildFire Star Battle League.
Join star battle chat channel and Star Battle TeamSpeak 3 server and meet hundreds of dedicated SB players.
*********************************************************************** Star Battle on YouTubeTwitterFacebookWWWWikiown3d.tv ***********************************************************************
You can sign in now, no matter if you have a team or not.
Community trailer
It's been over a year since zedu uploaded the first version of Star Battle on StarCraft II EU Battle.net. Much has changed since the beginning. Originally containing only a single ship – the Battlecruiser – the map has grown in complexity and there are now 8 unique ships to choose from, each with a myriad of abilities. More recently, player statistics and achievements were introduced.
The game has enjoyed continued growth and success, and one year later it is still a front page custom game on both the EU and NA Battle.net servers, never falling far from the top. Now Star Battle is on SEA and CN servers too. Its community has expanded greatly over the past year. In addition to its original homepage, Star Battle now has a live stream channel, Twitter feed, Facebook community page, wiki page, and YouTube channel.
A huge leap forward in the community development process was made possible by the dedicated Star Battle TeamSpeak 3 server hosted by avogatro. It provided a place for players – both serious and new – to meet and form strong group and community bonds. Integration increased not only across servers, but between them as well. TeamSpeak provided a medium for the exchange of ideas between the EU and NA scenes. As of now, the beginning of 2012, there are at least 12 well-established Star Battle clans and that number is continuing to rise.
Large patches, small balance tweaks, and improving player skill have provided for the evolution and refinement of various, diverse tactics over the past year. Eight tournaments and one invitational event have been held on both the EU and NA servers. The number of recorded, casted, and streamed games has steadily increased, as gameplay has reached and passed the point where it's enjoyable for an audience to watch. This was demonstrated by the ‘Grandmasters of Star Battle’ show event, which had over 80 people watching the live stream at its peak.
The 5 tournaments on EU Battle.net and 3 on NA Battle.net have been awesome experiences for the participants. In fact, tournaments are now averaging well over 100 participants! Join us now in this upcoming tournament.
SBTNA5 will be the last tournament before our greatest community project in the history of Star Battle:
You have to play at least one tournament game to be awarded with tournament prize. Other tournament prizes are special ranks, achievements and green/gold stars in player's profile.
We are friendly community always happy to welcome new members.
Star Battle NA Tournament 5.0 starting in 16 hours! 2 pm EST, 8 pm CET. 22 teams and 202 players. Live streams, prizes and lots of fun! http://www.starbattletournament.com
Group D (1)TeaMaeT (TMT) / 4-1 (4-0) (2)The Random Bashers (TRB) / 2-3 (2-2) (3)Small Random Boys (SRB) / 2-3 (2-2) (4)Dark Insight - 2 (INC) / 2-3 (2-2) (5)The Bounty Hunters (TBH) / 0-5 (0-4)
First two teams from each bracket advance to winners bracket. Other teams play losers' bracket.
On the other news: over 180 people at peak on Star Battle TeamSpeak 3 server during first tournament day. Few teams used Skype or their own TeamSpeak server.
Do not miss today's finals of the NA5 tournament! Watch best players in action live on one of our official streams. Games start at 18:00 GMT (1:00 PM EST).
Are you still farming creep or already striving to compete with the best players, teams and clans in Star Battle? Be there, at the 6th NA Star Battle Tournament at the 9th and 10th of June 2012. Sign in as team, clan, random pool player or substitute, watch the streams and enjoy epic matches!
Star Battle has a thriving Community. Twelve Star Battle tournaments (6 EU, 5 NA and one World Tournament) and one invitational have been concluded. World Star Battle Tournament 1 gathered over 400 players from 40 teams from EU, NA, SEA, CN and TW servers. Do not miss Sixth North American Star Battle Tournament which will take place on June 9th and 10th, 2012. Register now at starbattletournament.com . Star Battle tournaments are the biggest events in the StarCraft2 custom maps scene and attract more participants than most SC2 ladder tournaments.
1st Place: Choice of Dark Carrier or Special Ops Raven or Elite Colors + Elite Battlecruiser Gold First Place Star Special Rank High Executor Undefeated & Champion Achievement
2nd Place: Elite Battlecruiser + Elite Mohandar Void Ray Silver Second Place Star Special Rank Executor Champion Achievement
3rd & 4th Place (Semi-Finalists): Elite Battlecruiser + Elite Mohandar Void Ray Bronze Third Place Star (3rd) or Green Tournament Participation Star (4th) Special Rank Master (3rd) Semi-Finals of Two Tournaments: Special Rank High Executor + Grand Champion Achievement
Participation: Elite Mohandar Void Ray Green Tournament Participation Star Special Rank Mentor (2 Tournaments), Master (3 Tournaments), Executor (5 Tournaments)
Golden crosshair Jury: Tournament Team For: the player who is on killing spree at NAT6 (Σ = total amount of kills/divided by number of matches)
Golden stethoscope Jury: Team Captains, Tournament Team, Referees and Streamers For: the best nurse at NAT6
Golden Medal Jury: Team Captains, Tournament Team, Referees and Streamers For: the best overall player at NAT6
Golden Captain´s hat Jury: Team Captains, Tournament Team, Referees and Streamers For: the best team-captain at NAT6
Golden player pin Jury: Team Captains, Tournament Team, Referees and Streamers For: players in the NAT6 Allstar Team (best player per ship)
Golden heart Jury: public poll For: the most entertaining Team at NAT6
Golden arrow Jury: Team Captains, Tournament Team, Referees and Streamers For: the most promising team in the future (will be added to the Team´s/Clan´s Teamspeak Channel)
Golden pitchfork Jury: Tournament Team For: the best farmer at the NAT6 (Σ = total farm/total match time)
Please note: Newly introduced awards will be added as Teamspeak-Icons - generously sponsored by avogatro the exact denominations of the awards, the total amount of categories, the final design and the jury per award can be subject to changes. Team Captains means the captains of all participating teams Tournament Team means the hosts, co-hosts, technical support and supervisor Referees and Streamers is self-explanatory
The seventh tournament in Star Battle on the north-american server is about to come by the end of next week: 25. & 26. of August.
What's new about Star Battle? Star Battle is again -after the launch of the 1.5 SC2-patch- highly rated, received countless positive reviews, the map-creator launched two quick patches for the game to adjust it to Arcade-style.
The game is regarded to be very balanced as a lot of different ship-compositions are viable to field, the competition amongst the top-tier teams and clans is very close, with a very diverse field of 'chasing' teams and clans from all servers.
Another invitational tournament took place in August '12 and the Star Battle scene was warming up for the NA#7, which is the 12th official tournament in total - and counting in the fun-tournaments as well, it is the 16th major event. This means, that in Star Battle you'll find almost every one and half months a major or minor tournament.
NA#7 - The standard tournament prizes will be in place for all participants - and of course, special prizes for the finalists and winners. For more details, follow the below listed links or check the last post from 'OldEnt' about the NA#6. - The casting scene in Star Battle 'expanded' and a lot of games will be live-casted, which is exciting even for None-Star Battlers: seeing 6v6 action is thrilling, full of suspense and fun! - As tournaments are a must for every serious clan and team in Star Battle: expect epic matches & battles.
Last but not least it is also worth mentioning, that once NA#7 is over, Star Battle faces its next major event in September: the EU#6 Freelancer Tournament, which is focusing in sourcing and introducing new talents from all servers into the competitive scene. Every player will get experienced mentors, teams will be mixed - and all that in the usual tournament setting with proper rules, live-casts and some selected prizes. This will be fun - and everyone who reads this here and ever wanted to give Star Battle a try, but was too scared of high-level players pwning around: sign up for the EU#6 here - or simply click on the image below:
GG's; gl hf to all of you & thank you for your attention.
The time has come, the time for the inaugural season of the Terran Star Battle League! Join one of many Star Battle clans, establish one or simply register in ad-hoc team to participate. Brand new prizes included!
Star Battle Community is proud to announce opening of Terran Star Battle League, the biggest and the most ambitious community-driven project in the StarCraft II Arcade. Hundreds of players from dozens of clans and teams will participate, each of them for the sole joy of play and meeting new people.
14 (FOURTEEN) tournaments with over 500 unique participants total, two invitationals and one league season have successfully concluded. Use of VoIP tools and “star battle” chat channel is common and players show extraordinary willingness to cooperate with each other to improve state of the game.
The new League draws heavily on heritage of aforementioned events which should be named here, for each of them was a huge leap forward in the Community’s two years of evolution: EU1, EU2, EU3. EU4, EU5, NA2, NA3, NA4, NA5, NA6, NA7, WSBT1, 3G EU, StarBlitz NA, WildFire Star Battle League NA, Grand Masters of Star Battle and The SB Invitational. The EU6 Freelancer Tournament is scheduled on September 15th and 16th and will feature mixed teams of veterans introducing newcomers to competitive play, a joint endeavor of all Star Battle clans.
The League’s goal is to expand Star Battle competitive scene while embracing its friendly ambiance and maintain image of Star Battle Community as one of the best organized communities in the StarCraft II Arcade.
---
TSBL will feature a full fledged seasons with exciting playoffs at the end.
Key features:
3 games per week (against the same team),
set gamedays with some room to re-schedule,
everybody faces all other teams,
top 4 teams go to playoffs which are played as best-of-5,
25 player rosters,
set mechanism to keep the league going when Commissioners step down;
...and probably the most important part for all you corrupted hobbits out there: NEW SHINY prizes by zedu
Casters: We have contacted and have signed up several casters to cast the TSBL!
Frosty
Hatred
Koloblicin
Iaijutsu
Referees: The league will feature Referees with whom you can discuss to solve eventual disputes. Referees for Season 1 are:
Fees (EU, EPIC)
Songoku (EU, Red Lions)
Darckense (EU, MACE)
KrakenDomes (NA, 7th Fleet)
Ladanian (NA, Cyberdyne)
Iaijutsu (NA, Eclipsis)
OK, OK enough, what do I do now?
1) Read and understand the rules, the rules are here: RULES 2) Sign up in the signups thread on Star Battle homepage (playstarbattle.com) 3) Make sure all members of your team has an EU Starcraft 2 installation useable and ready, 4) Wait for the schedule to be released, 5) After reading rules if you still have questions, ask! 6) If you would like to help please pm one of GrandAdmiral, Howler or NutButter. 7) Re-watch the TSBL Teaser
Special Thanks: OldEnt Verified Explicit Terminus Floris Darckense Eryo trunck akaFuel WildFire FTLK All 6 who have so far volunteered to referee All casters who have promised to cast games zedu All the people we forgot since the first draft of the Rules.
Happy Birthday Star Battle! Exactly two years ago, on October 9th, 2010 Star Battle was uploaded on StarCraft II EU Battle.net.
Overview Star Battle is a a custom game variant for StarCraft II by Blizzard Entertainment. Two teams consisting of up to six people engage in intense space fleet combat, with each player using one of the nine distinct capital ships, each wielding a formidable array of abilities and weapons.
Gameplay Combat consists of each of the two teams spawning at a base ship, which they must protect while attempting to destroy either the opposing team or the enemy base ship. Each ship can be upgraded at the base ship with minerals gained from killing or farming enemy 'creeps'. Upgrades such as firepower, defense, speed, and energy increase a ship's power and reflects individual playstyle. If a ship is destroyed, it does not respawn. This is a distinct difference from many custom games, and this part is what makes Star Battle much more than simply a 'DotA in space', as which it might appear at the first glance, otherwise.
Competitive play Over the past two years Star Battle evolved both in terms of gameplay and Community. Organised events take place every month, tournaments being the most contributive to the scene. Fifteen Star Battle tournaments, a league season and two invitational events have been successfully concluded in two first years of competitive scene. The biggest tournament so far attracted over 400 players from 40 teams, establishing a new record for StarCraft II custom maps scene.
Community The Community is proud to host many active and talented people who constantly contribute to the scene. Without them; tournaments, live streams, detailed guides, wiki, TeamSpeak servers, promotional graphics and videos could not be possible to organise. Veterans are always eager to welcome new people to the organised competitive scene. Many clans are recruiting right now!
Would you like to know more? Star Battle is available on EU, NA, SEA and CN StarCraft II Battle.net in the Arcade section. If you would like to play with us you can find us:
in-game: look at players profiles and search for people who have stars there. Those are the most dedicated players who have earned participation star for each tournament they have participated in. Party up with them!
chat channel: Star Battle have its own chat channel on StarCraft II Battle.net. Join "star battle" chat channel in between your games.
homepage: join our forums to keep up with the latest patch notes, tournaments and community news. Report a bug or make a suggestion for improving the game.
social media: subscribe to our YouTube channel, like our Facebook page and follow our Twitter feed. Do not miss out our videos!
TeamSpeak 3 server: We cannot emphasise how important voice communication to a team-oriented game is. Our collective of Star Battle TeamSpeak 3 servers are the main hub for organised play. We take extensive use of TeamSpeak server groups feature as a socialization tool. Assigned server groups serve as indication of player's clan affiliation, skills, hobbies and positions one holds in the Community. Join our server and ask for your own Battlecruiser icon! Click for detailed information.
Forthcoming events (register now on playstarbattle.com):
Terran Star Battle League [Season 1: October 8th, 2012 - February 17, 2013]- Star Battle Community is proud to announce opening of Terran Star Battle League, the biggest and the most ambitious community-driven project in the StarCraft II Arcade. Hundreds of players from dozens of clans and teams will participate, each of them for the sole joy of play and meeting new people. The League’s goal is to expand Star Battle competitive scene while embracing its friendly ambiance and maintain image of Star Battle Community as one of the best organized communities in the StarCraft II Arcade.
Four Glory Tournament [October 20th and 21th, 2012]- Ready to jump into the next Star Battle tournament? How about Four Glory! Four Glory is a 4v4 Tournament designed to change how you think of the game. Got Tournament Fever but no full team to play with? Not a problem, we will handle it!
Star Battle Tournament NA8 [date TBA] - the next big tournament played on North American Battle.net. Bigger, better and more awesome than its predecessors!
On January 10 2013 08:19 Fulla wrote: Been playing this alot again lately. The new overlord is awesome
Are there any EU clans recruiting? How about any EU tounrmanets?
Clans accept new players as recruits so give it a shot. The easiest way to get to a clan is to join TeamSpeak 3 server and play with people over there. Microphone is not required. It really helps joining star battle chat channel too. Clan leaders prefer requiting people with high social skills.
Latest tournament info can be found in tournaments section on playstarbattle.com . EU Christmas Tournament played on 29-30th of December was the latest EU tournament. Next tournament is scheduled for April 13th: World Star Battle Tournament 2 which is a part of Swarm of Hearts SC2 Arcade charity event. More information will follow.
We are pleased to announce that Star Battle will be featured in this week's Wednesday Night Sprites. Join us @ http://twitch.tv/chanmanv and star battle chat channel on NA server on February 13th, 10:30pm EST.
Wednesday Night Sprites is a weekly show that explores the plethora of fun games in the Starcraft 2 Arcade. The cast will try out new games/maps each week and at the end rate the games on how fun it was. The goal is to find some amazing hidden gems within the Starcraft 2 Arcade while having a blast gaming together in the process. There will be special guests from time to time and weekly games against viewers. Game and map suggestions will be taken from the community so be sure to post your favorite games.
ChanmanV is best known for hosting two other major programs:
Climbing The Ladder, a weekly e-Sports show that discusses the ins and outs of all the various segments of professional gaming (player, team, tournament organizing, sponsors, casting, etc.). The focus of the show is about clearing up misconceptions in each segment and to hopes to create a problem solving and idea generating environment to help the e-Sports community/industry progress. The most recent guests of the host include Bernie "Fujikura" Catalan (Quantic Gaming COO), John "Totalbiscuit" Bain (Axiom eSports), Kevin Lin (COO Twitch TV) and Stuart Saw (Director of EMEA Twitch TV)
ChanmanV's Pro Corner, a Starcraft 2 show where host brings on very popular and up-and-coming progamers to create a collaborative atmosphere of learning how to become a better SC2 player. List of guests so far include EG.MachineRC, Liquid.TLO, Destiny, mTwDimaga and WhiteRa, to name just a few.
Wednesday Night Sprites featured Night of the Dead and The Star Strikers, among others.
Me and OmegaStar will assure the game gets coverage it deserves. :')
Click Here To Watch Show Show Time: 10:30pm EST Hosts: ChanmanV, EG.Machine. iSTemp0, EternityLivinPink Guests: OldEnt and Omega Tonight's Game: Star Battle
Wednesday Night Sprites tonight will be spotlighting the Starcraft 2 Arcade game Star Battle. We will have members of the Star Battle community (OldEnt) on to walk us through the game and talk about the community events they've organized around Star Battle. But before we jump straight into the game, we'll be celebrating V-day with some some dinner. So come eat and play with us tonight!
Our playstarbattle channel has 227 videos uploaded, 625 subscribers and over 68,000 video views. Subscribe for trailers, guides and tournament and league coverage. In May the channel celebrates its second anniversary.
Watch Star Battle 3.0 Teaser on our official channel. Like and subscribe!
The next version of Star Battle will require HotS to play. It will contain new ships, changes to game mechanics, updated interface and many more. It is still in development and at the moment it is planned to be released in May. It will be published as "Star Battle", so it will override the current map. Be sure to check forums regularly to learn more details about it.
When the next version is released, the current version (2.370) will be republished as "Star Battle (Wings of Liberty)". It will be playable without HotS. It will contain no changes and it won't support bankfiles, achievements nor tournament rewards.
Greetings everyone, if you haven't heard, Star Battle (one of the most popular custom maps in StarCraftII) has just received a major overhaul!
Title: Star Battle 3.0 Author: zedu Description: Battle with up to 6 team-mates as you try to destroy the opposing Team's ships, or take down their command vessel (if your brave enough). Official Website: Playstarbattle.com
The map that has had over 12000 reviews on NA and another 10000 on EU, now takes off into Heart of the Swarm!
Star Battle is a 6v6 capital ship scenario that draws inspiration from Dota, Star Trek, and others to make for a pretty enjoyable arcade game. You pick your ship, kill enemy creep (or often called farm) for money in order to upgrade your ship, and endeavour to destroy the opposing team's Command Vessel.
Star Battle has seen its shair of the spotlight by being shown by TotalBiscuit 2 times and appearing most recently on Wednesday Night Sprites #8.
Star battle has grown from only a few starting ships to now having 10 ships. Below is a very brief description of each ship and its attacks.
Theres lots of tournament casts and random IH's around on our youtube page, The pro-days sounds like a fun idea and I would be very interested in trying this out :D
TSL season will start in about a month, so there will be ton's of competitive games starting up soon, everyone is kinda just getting the feel for the game atm.
Ladies and Gentleman the Terran Star Battle League (TSL for short) season 2 starts tonight! Games start at 10:30EST. If you're interested in seeing the top teams of Star Battle fight it out here is your chance! If you wanna catch the action check out www.thetsl.org and go to the streams section to find out which are online so you can catch it all!
This game's really taken off and I'm enjoying it more and more each day.
I'm really hoping the community grows over time though. I feel like there's not a huge foundation for someone new (or a fucker like me who hasn't caught up to the last 2 years of meta) and the forum's moved to a new place so other than OGKush's guides there's nothing really to go on class specific.
Compare this to playdota in the mid-late 2000s which had a lot of comprehensive guides to any single champion of your choice.
On December 26 2015 01:49 imJealous wrote: Haven't played since around the time 3.0 came out, was worried it had died out. Will have to check it out again... Has there been a LotV update?
Well the towers are now disruptors, so I think it's been pretty up to date with these things.
Seems like there are a few different versions now? I'm seeing a v3.5 uploaded by someone other than Zedu, star battle 3.45 by Zedu, and Star battle reborn v1 by Zedu
On December 26 2015 15:19 imJealous wrote: Seems like there are a few different versions now? I'm seeing a v3.5 uploaded by someone other than Zedu, star battle 3.45 by Zedu, and Star battle reborn v1 by Zedu
I believe 3.45 is it. I know it's Star Battle X and usually someone's already running an open game in the queue. The correct version should have a patch released this week introducing a carrier ability and buffing the void ray, if that helps narrow it down.
EPT
.
![[image loading]](http://img42.imageshack.us/i/starbattlestarcraft2c.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img812.imageshack.us/i/starbattlestarcraft2b.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/i/starbattlestarcraft2a.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img585.imageshack.us/i/starbattlestarcraft2d.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/AkioAkemi/where-did-my-ship-go-I-was-afk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/2rro2f6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://d00m.org/seins/images/randomlinks/gmosb%20zedu%20forum.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7522/mastersyt.png)
![[image loading]](http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu157/johnschall/Star%20Battle/NA5Banner-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://starbattlewiki.uk.to/mediawiki/images/Mohandar_Void_Ray_Model.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/uu157/johnschall/Star%20Battle/DarkCarriers.png)
![[image loading]](http://starbattlewiki.uk.to/mediawiki/images/Elite_Battlecruiser_Model.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://starbattlewiki.uk.to/mediawiki/images/Special_Ops_Raven_Model.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/jabbertorts180clients.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5111/bhechgcf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3350/ss20120508140112.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.candacerichman.com/sbimages/na6sigfuel.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/og38G.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://d00m.org/seins/images/eufreelancerforum2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VdH4N.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E1OOV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zwbn6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/88DOj.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2dC4Q.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tp5ld.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MbvGK.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cuxsb.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/afehY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EdcTW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NM3OV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2rJDK.png)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53517025/Z/Screenshot-2012-10-09_15.34.49.png)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53517025/Z/Screenshot-2012-10-09_15.58.57.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VpYQ9.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UzlZj.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I6atq.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9lhb7Zp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GLrTP.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hOuLxnF.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/iphwvcjgdqmnrj3/Battlecruiser.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/omvktliu4qehptr/Raven.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/sg847nvvbwznas7/Dreadnaught.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/t94sssygilc7mm5/Overlord.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/5mby03op15czbxc/Leviathan.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/luigrczakt8nmcb/Guardian.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/iz4b82mocrls73k/Carrier.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/7jcbj24ts4u9i8z/Arbiter.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fi4zjoi9l9wcdcy/Void-Ray.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/s/ql20pk89n78b1vn/Colossus.jpg)
