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Good Map Textures

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
October 28 2010 23:58 GMT
#1
I was looking through the map textures and noticed that most sets only have 1 or two good textures. So I am currently going through and creating a list for myself to use. My question is which textures do you feel are good(or like the look of), and if any why? My list so far is:
Ulaan - Dirt Cracked
Zhakul'Das - Mercury Cracks
Valhalla - Dirts
Valhalla - All
Ulnar - Hull 1/2
Tyrador - Grass/Big Bricks
Typhon - Stone Tiles
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2404 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-29 00:53:05
October 29 2010 00:28 GMT
#2
Cool idea, although every tile set has its ups and downs, so I don't know... I'll add my first thoughts

Agira- Yellow Grass (it looks nice in many circumstances, especially with man-made contrast)
Bel'Shir- Basically everything (looks very flush, colorful, contrasts well in everything)
Auir- Grass (it has the least repeating pattern, colorful, and generally can be used on its own in places)
Mapmaker & TLMC Judge. Amygdala, Frostline, Crimson Court, and Korhal Compound (WoL).
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
October 29 2010 01:34 GMT
#3
I don't think it matters if the textures look good by themselves. What is important is how they work together, and many of the textures that work good with others are not too impressive by themselves. I'm really not a fan of applying a single texture to a large area.

So I wouldn't say that there are textures that are good, it's more that certain tilesets have textures that aren't really useful and don't work well with the rest. I'm not a fan of the Ulnar-Hull textures, because it's really hard to use them together with other textures.

For example, I like how you can use the Avernus-Metal texture with the Avernus-Large tiles texture. you can blend them so nicely, they look like they were made to be used together. That's awesome.
[image loading]

On the same tileset, Avernus-Panels sucks, because it just can't be blended together with other textures and still look good. You can try to force it to work, but it will never really look good. Which sucks, because it's the only red texture in this tileset and the artificial cliff texture is red, while the natural textures of Avernus are more blueish, so a red=artificial, blue=natural colour scheme would be awesome.
[image loading]

WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
October 29 2010 02:46 GMT
#4
Wow... that was a very good post. If you do happen to have a list of it handy, can you tell me what textures you think go well together? I can obviously do it with Trial and Error but that will take a while.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
StuBob
Profile Joined March 2010
United States373 Posts
October 29 2010 04:54 GMT
#5
How do you use more than one tile-set in a game?

and also, how do you get the textures to go together that well?
I play RANDOM!
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-29 13:47:17
October 29 2010 13:46 GMT
#6
I don't really have a list because I usually just apply all textures of a tileset to the middle of a map before I start texturing and think about how I can use them. So it's some sort of educated trial and error for me too, but I'll try to write a short tutorial to show how I use textures and how I blend them.

So far, I think the most important factors that let textures go well together are shape and colour. Many of the metal textures have a diagonal layout, so you should use the diamond shaped brush when applying them.
Also, the seams are important. You want to keep them intact when using artificial textures like metal or stone. When you blend two different textures, one is usually dominant. The dominant texture is the one with the prominent edges. You usually want to keep these intact, and use the recessive (non-dominant) one to fill the gaps. You also keep the seams of the formerly recessive one intact when blending with natural textures, as it's shape is still more distinctive than the natural textures one (so it's dominant now).
Some pictures to show what I mean:
+ Show Spoiler +
Large tiles (dominant texture) alone:
[image loading]

Large tiles blended with metal (recessive texture), a diamond shaped brush with maximal opacity used:
[image loading]

Natural cliffs and dirt texture added:
[image loading]

The formerly recessive metal texture is now dominant, the dirt is recessive. The seams of the metal texture are intact. Rock is added to the dirt texture with a round, soft brush with minimal opacity. The rock texture is especially added to the parts that are near the cliff.
[image loading]


This takes quite long, especially in the beginning. It gets faster with more experience, but it will always take some time, honestly.
If people are interested in some more tutorialish stuff I can write some more, but I won't if noone would like to read it. I don't want to seem too cocky.

You can't use more than one tileset, but you can customise them. Here's a tutorial I found helpful: http://www.starcraft-source.com/developer/article/view/?id=101
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
October 29 2010 17:56 GMT
#7
Excellent post Koagel. If I remember correctly the editor has a very silly way of dealing with layers of textures. For example if you have a textures that is applied 50% of the way on top of a textures that's applied 50% on top of another texture (so you can kind of see all three textures). And you decide to remove one of them one of the remaining textures will become much more dominant than the other.

There is an excellent post on another website that describes this in detail. I'll update when I get home.

Getting back on topic one of my favorite tile sets is Shakuras. It's a bit dark but the colours mix perfectly in the right light. The two hex tiles may be a bit redundant but each of them has their place. Interestingly Shakuras blends well with bel shir and aiur foliage:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


My other favorite tileset would be char, because it has so much potential with the amound of doodads designed for it but no one has really lived up to it.

A mix of char and grass would can also make a really interesting look:
[will update with example later].
ESV Mapmaking Team
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
October 30 2010 03:39 GMT
#8
Honestly, if you did a tutorial on texture blending that would be great. Currently i have no idea what I'm doing in terms of texture. I just spray it randomly and hope it looks good.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
October 30 2010 17:07 GMT
#9
Hehe, this one's gonna be long...
+ Show Spoiler +
Alrigthy then.
The tileset I'll use for this tutorial is Agria.
Let's start with a sketch. That's the logical first step where you don't think about the details, just about the genereal look you want to achieve. The basic shape of the map, like cliffs, starting locations and ressources come before that, but I feel that good texturing is the most important part of letting your map look good. Doodads are just used to further improve upon that, but can never make up for bad texturing. So, right now I created a representative little village, and I want a street that goes through it. Our whole village is built on a high ground, and there is another high ground to the right. Furthermore, I want some farming and two small forests, so far representated by the Agria-foliage texture (the dark green one). So this is how our village looks like with the textures sketched on it:[image loading]

The street is on the dirt texture, and concrete is used to show where our village should be.
Now, I'd like to group textures into two different categories, those that I would use spaciously, and those that I'd use for transitions. So far, all textures I used are those that I'd use spaciously. Some textures usually don't look good when used like that, and those are textures that may be used for transitions. Rubble and stuff like this are textures I use for transitions. This classification is anything but definite, most textures are somewhere in between but just more useful as one. Textures with big elements that are better left intact or boring textures without too much detail are usually spacious textures while textures with many easily recognisable small details or rough textures are more useful as transition textures.
In this case, I used a rough dirt texture for the transition:[image loading]

I used a 5.50 soft round brush with around 16 opacity (I don't know how it's called in the english version, the german version calls this Inkrement) on very fast to apply this texture.
Now, I want to emphasise that you can work in layers, and use both the grass texture and the brighter dirt texture to again paint over the rough dirt. You don't want the transition to be so prominent, it should just be barely recognisable. You cannot only paint textures by holding down the mouse button. For more accurate texturing, I usually click fast instead. Remember that it looks much more natural when you bring in some variation. Here's what I got:[image loading]

I used the same brush as before.
On the next step, I'll show that you can bring some variation with different textures of the same type. On Agria, we don't just have the normal grass texture, but also another one called Grass yellow, as opposed to the green grass we used before. I used the yellow grass to brigthen it up a bit, especially the parts that face the street. I then used the foliage texture to further emphasise the cliffs. You pretty much always want a different texture on the parts that are very near to the cliffs. It would not have been that much of a deal in my example because the street is so close to the cliffs and there is a natural transition anyways, but if you have a very large area without too much variation, lets say a desert or pure grasslands, you really really want another texture at the cliffs. I also used the rough dirt texture to paint some more details on the normal dirt, but it's not too noticable. Here you go:[image loading]

I varied the height of the cliffs a bit, but not too much. I usually heighten the protruding parts and lower the others a bit. Don't overdo this, again this is just to add little variation and not to add whole mountains to every piece of terrain. Oh, and I also added a sea so that nobody asks why I didn't texture the lowground. :-P[image loading]

Finally I added some doodads to show how it could look when improved further. The doodads give additional detail, but would not work if the textures beneath them were crappy.[image loading]

Next I looked at the tileset and found the rock texture useless. For the path to the right of the place we just textured, I figured I could use another transition texture to set it apart from the main road.
So I changed the Agria-rock texture to the Tarsonis-rubble texture that I thought would fit. I first did the transition between grass and road with the rough dirt, and then did did another one with Tarsonis-rubble over the first one. The rest ist just the standard texturing stuff I mentioned before plus some more doodad usage.[image loading]


I'll add some more parts of texturing the village later, I feel like the post is already ridiculously long enough and I want to know if I should explain certain things more/less exact before I add more.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
October 31 2010 05:44 GMT
#10
Oh my, Koagel, you have a lot of talent. Please make a full thread on everything you talk about here. You've only scratched the surface with your post and I'd be really interested see how you use water, mist, and lighting.

Also here's a post detailing how textures blend when you add/remove them:
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/resources/tutorials/4817-terrain-texture-understanding-ground-texture-mixture/

It's not a tutorial on how to make beautiful maps but it provides knowledge of how the game interprets the textures.
ESV Mapmaking Team
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
October 31 2010 08:37 GMT
#11
I don't understand the sc2mapster tutorial at all O.o

The most important rule for beautiful decoration is not having straight lines and he pretty much understood it, that's why his deco is nice.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-31 11:56:20
October 31 2010 11:55 GMT
#12
I really don't see how the mapster tut can be useful. It does provide further explanation how certain tools work, yes, but the problem most people have is not a lack of understanding of the tool, it's simply that they haven't developed the knowledge to create something that looks good. I don't know much about the editor so far. I just have the background knowledge to see what I need to do to create nice environments. People that don't have this knowledge see that their stuff doesn't look good, but the problem is that they don't see why it doesn't look good. And if you don't know why something is bad, you can't make it better.
That's what I wanted to say with the long tutorial. I wanted to show people why their textures might not look good. It's because they use unnatural forms, straight lines, no variation. I tried to find words to describe stuff that I usually do without thinking about it.
A single natural texture cannot be applied on a huge area and still look natural. You need to bring some variation in, and you can do that by mixing in another texture or two.

I won't post stuff on many more subjects because I don't know enough about them yet. I'll try and get more into them and maybe I can help with the lighting and other stuff later.
G_Wen
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada525 Posts
October 31 2010 19:25 GMT
#13
On October 31 2010 17:37 Superouman wrote:
I don't understand the sc2mapster tutorial at all O.o

The most important rule for beautiful decoration is not having straight lines and he pretty much understood it, that's why his deco is nice.


Like I said it wasn't a tutorial about making good looking textures, it was about giving information about how the tools in the editor works.
ESV Mapmaking Team
smurfbizkit
Profile Joined September 2010
United States15 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 17:44:44
November 01 2010 16:03 GMT
#14
Koagel,

That is definitely the way to do it. Something that I wish was more possible, would be to mix the desert elements from the Mar Sara tileset with Bel'Shir...giving a desert protoss ruins look. Problem is just how heavily green tinted the Bel'Shir bricks are. I'll have to take some time and fix the colors on the actual dds's.

The sticking point for most mappers is that they aren't artists. Painting terrain textures, especially using the photoshop-like toolset SC2 benefits a lot from some art background.

Yesterday, I wanted to see how far I could push painting within the editor...and ended up with these couple of tests (fyi this was my 2nd time firing up the editor for any length of time). I just used the existing tilesets for them, and painted like I would something in photoshop.

[image loading]


I was surprised at just how flexible the editor is. Yea at the smallest brush size SC2 is inaccurate as hell, but it is good enough to show that we can do terrain that looks much better than what exists already.
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-01 20:00:06
November 01 2010 18:47 GMT
#15
On November 02 2010 01:03 smurfbizkit wrote:
The sticking point for most mappers is that they aren't artists. Painting terrain textures, especially using the photoshop-like toolset SC2 benefits a lot from some art background.


So true.

For your sandy ruins, maybe combine the sand textures from Meinhoff with some of the stone textures from Aiur? Along with some slight colour adjustments in the lighting editor this could be enough.
Here's what I came up with: [image loading]
Cliffs and doodads will require some adjustmens too I think...
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
November 01 2010 20:16 GMT
#16
Thing that bothers me about texturing maps in sc2, is that it feels like photoshop but without the ability to do layers and it makes it super hard to do things like the metal avernus stuff earlier in this thread.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
November 01 2010 21:24 GMT
#17
On October 31 2010 02:07 Koagel wrote:
Hehe, this one's gonna be long...
+ Show Spoiler +
Alrigthy then.
The tileset I'll use for this tutorial is Agria.
Let's start with a sketch. That's the logical first step where you don't think about the details, just about the genereal look you want to achieve. The basic shape of the map, like cliffs, starting locations and ressources come before that, but I feel that good texturing is the most important part of letting your map look good. Doodads are just used to further improve upon that, but can never make up for bad texturing. So, right now I created a representative little village, and I want a street that goes through it. Our whole village is built on a high ground, and there is another high ground to the right. Furthermore, I want some farming and two small forests, so far representated by the Agria-foliage texture (the dark green one). So this is how our village looks like with the textures sketched on it:[image loading]

The street is on the dirt texture, and concrete is used to show where our village should be.
Now, I'd like to group textures into two different categories, those that I would use spaciously, and those that I'd use for transitions. So far, all textures I used are those that I'd use spaciously. Some textures usually don't look good when used like that, and those are textures that may be used for transitions. Rubble and stuff like this are textures I use for transitions. This classification is anything but definite, most textures are somewhere in between but just more useful as one. Textures with big elements that are better left intact or boring textures without too much detail are usually spacious textures while textures with many easily recognisable small details or rough textures are more useful as transition textures.
In this case, I used a rough dirt texture for the transition:[image loading]

I used a 5.50 soft round brush with around 16 opacity (I don't know how it's called in the english version, the german version calls this Inkrement) on very fast to apply this texture.
Now, I want to emphasise that you can work in layers, and use both the grass texture and the brighter dirt texture to again paint over the rough dirt. You don't want the transition to be so prominent, it should just be barely recognisable. You cannot only paint textures by holding down the mouse button. For more accurate texturing, I usually click fast instead. Remember that it looks much more natural when you bring in some variation. Here's what I got:[image loading]

I used the same brush as before.
On the next step, I'll show that you can bring some variation with different textures of the same type. On Agria, we don't just have the normal grass texture, but also another one called Grass yellow, as opposed to the green grass we used before. I used the yellow grass to brigthen it up a bit, especially the parts that face the street. I then used the foliage texture to further emphasise the cliffs. You pretty much always want a different texture on the parts that are very near to the cliffs. It would not have been that much of a deal in my example because the street is so close to the cliffs and there is a natural transition anyways, but if you have a very large area without too much variation, lets say a desert or pure grasslands, you really really want another texture at the cliffs. I also used the rough dirt texture to paint some more details on the normal dirt, but it's not too noticable. Here you go:[image loading]

I varied the height of the cliffs a bit, but not too much. I usually heighten the protruding parts and lower the others a bit. Don't overdo this, again this is just to add little variation and not to add whole mountains to every piece of terrain. Oh, and I also added a sea so that nobody asks why I didn't texture the lowground. :-P[image loading]

Finally I added some doodads to show how it could look when improved further. The doodads give additional detail, but would not work if the textures beneath them were crappy.[image loading]

Next I looked at the tileset and found the rock texture useless. For the path to the right of the place we just textured, I figured I could use another transition texture to set it apart from the main road.
So I changed the Agria-rock texture to the Tarsonis-rubble texture that I thought would fit. I first did the transition between grass and road with the rough dirt, and then did did another one with Tarsonis-rubble over the first one. The rest ist just the standard texturing stuff I mentioned before plus some more doodad usage.[image loading]


I'll add some more parts of texturing the village later, I feel like the post is already ridiculously long enough and I want to know if I should explain certain things more/less exact before I add more.

my god that is just beautiful and the work behind it in detail is just amazing lol i wish the ladder maps would more visually appealing
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
November 09 2010 02:13 GMT
#18
Koagel that was an amazing and beautiful tutorial. My main question right now is probably how you deal with large open spaces. I am currently working on a macro map which obviously needs a lot of space. I have tried to break it up in terms of textures with natural landmarks(fading in/out at cliffs/chokes) however there is still a large portion of area in the middle which I haven't been able to fix at all. What can I try to do to make this less boring? Also, the real MorroW? o_O
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
Koagel
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria167 Posts
November 09 2010 20:00 GMT
#19
It would be easier if you showed me a picture. If you have a tileset with many different grass textures, you can make it look sufficient with just them, but it may take some skill. You could also create some paths that come together in the middle, or just draw something (like on Python), but I need to at least know your tileset to give really useful suggestions.
WarSame
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1950 Posts
November 10 2010 02:41 GMT
#20
I've been playing around with the textures on my map a lot so unfortunately I can't show you a picture(currently I just painbucketed some textures on to see how they look and it looks bad). Currently I am using Agria but I was also using Monlyth previously. I am thinking of going with almost entirely grass because unfortunately both rock and foliage seem useless for anything besides transitions.
Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?
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