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I've decided to revamp Twisted Meadows to Sc2! I've never played Wc3, but I got a request in my map thread (which you can find here) to remake this map, and I would like some feedback on it. (how the terrain looks and stuff)
So if you could take a few minutes of your time, and check it out. =]
**Map is Published! Search for "Twisted Meadowss" and it will show up!**
Twisted Meadows
Wc3 Version
+ Show Spoiler +
Sc2 Version
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/aaimister/Terrain001-2.jpg) Map Features & Explanation ![[image loading]](http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/aaimister/Terrainexplan.jpg) Dotted Yellow Line = Expansion Route Black Line = Line of Sight Blocker Red Circle = Watch Tower Version: 0.3 Players: 4 Download: Here!*In case you didn't know or were wondering, the blue line is the end of the map, and yellow is the camera. Close Ups Main + Show Spoiler +Nat & Gold + Show Spoiler +3rd + Show Spoiler +Watch Tower + Show Spoiler +
I hope you like it, and give some positive feedback and anything that you think needs to be improved.
Check out all my other maps, in my map thread, here!
Thanks! =]
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don't like the layout tbh
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nicely done, but i think this map favors zerg a little too much with that gold expansion, need to make it more vulnerable to tanks and collosi
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looks like itd be very zerg favored. may be hard to move around large armies late game? but hey im no pro i dunno
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Pretty neat. But since you have a map thread, shouldn't new maps be getting posted in there?
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The expo routes are quite clearly Zerg favored but that might well be countered by the narrow nature of the map.
I think it would certainly be interesting to see how PvT and T/P mirrors play out when expanding towards the opponent isn't an option.
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this was one of my favorite WC3 ladder maps
I don't think SC and WC3 would ideally use the same type of maps though due to creeps/merc camps/shops etc
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yeah not a big fan of WC3 maps being ported to SC2, this port looks about as decent as it could be though
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I think it looks real good, nice work.
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it doesn't feel like twisted meadows tbh and also it looks like you can walk to corner expansions which changes everything
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Thanks for all the feedback and such. And yes, you can walk to the back expansion, but that can change if necessary. And the gold expansion maybe mostly plain minerals, because the gold seems too close and easy to expand too.
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One of my favourite maps from wc3... the only problem with SC2 is.. that map had alot of pressure in early-mid game to control the centre of the map, however, with no taverns or shops, there is no strategic advantage to that... maybe find something enticing to control that point?
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I like how you start close to each other and move away instead of the standard starting far away and move closer together
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Yeah, it was hard to find something in sc2 to be something small enough to fit in the center and have high value, so I'll I could think of was a watch tower, but I may put gold in the middle? but that'd be way too hard to defend.
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It honestly looks good the way it is, and depending on how far that watch tower reaches (say if it hits the view of your backdoor rocks), it could be very valueable. If that map was included in the games 1v1 pool from the beginning I don't think anyone would complain to be honest. Good work, and keeps with the rough idea of WC3 as best as could be given the differences in games.
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On July 22 2010 12:53 Paramore wrote:
One of my favourite maps from wc3... the only problem with SC2 is.. that map had alot of pressure in early-mid game to control the centre of the map, however, with no taverns or shops, there is no strategic advantage to that... maybe find something enticing to control that point?
With the destructible rocks down, going through the middle is the quickest way to attack your opponent. Also the line-of-sight fog surrounding the watch tower (theoretically, if the watch tower radius exceeds the fog radius) means that the area will be very easy to defend and very hard to attack.
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I think it looks like a cool map. Yea, it's a good zerg map, but it would make a pretty decent terran map, too, as you could block off the ramp to your natural and gold, and defend them pretty easily.
The backdoor does kind of suck, though. I'd probably end up vetoing it in ladder because of that.
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There is a couple of things though, make the 3rds only accessible by air. And make that little path in between the starting area and the rocks unpassable (if it is in the first place, the little part in between them seperating the golds from the other guys starting minerals)
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Yes, the watch tower reaches about half way up the back door, and yeah, it makes for more interesting later games I think. =]
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I'm just going to throw this out there, 'cause I've noticed it a lot now a days.
it's a visual complaint but I get really annoyed for some reason when I load and my starting base has one texture for all the ground. I'm seeing some grass stuff but really... it looks really bland. It's one of the tell tale signs that i'm playing on a conversion map when the ground looks so plain. put some contrast in there please. I beg you. the green and brown work well in the wc3 map. right now you got grey... and a slightly greenish grey... anything to make it look like it didn't just come out of the editor...
besides that I'm rather interested in playing on this map with the third behind the main... and also seeing water. haven't played on maybe maps with water.
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On July 22 2010 13:02 Joseph. wrote:
There is a couple of things though, make the 3rds only accessible by air. And make that little path in between the starting area and the rocks unpassable (if it is in the first place, the little part in between them seperating the golds from the other guys starting minerals)
Making the third only being accessed by air I though would make terrain a little op, but if it isn't, it's really easily defended by zerg and terran anyway, and that little part where the water comes by the choke to make the choke a little smaller? Yeah, that'd be a good idea. =]
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Great job! Can't wait to try this out next week.
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On July 22 2010 13:04 Bio-Leera wrote:
I'm just going to throw this out there, 'cause I've noticed it a lot now a days.
it's a visual complaint but I get really annoyed for some reason when I load and my starting base has one texture for all the ground. I'm seeing some grass stuff but really... it looks really bland. It's one of the tell tale signs that i'm playing on a conversion map when the ground looks so plain. put some contrast in there please. I beg you. the green and brown work well in the wc3 map. right now you got grey... and a slightly greenish grey... anything to make it look like it didn't just come out of the editor...
besides that I'm rather interested in playing on this map with the third behind the main... and also seeing water. haven't played on maybe maps with water.
i can make it darker, yes. But it looks way different from the editor into the game itself, (terrain wise with the blending and such) so if you haven't yet, please look at it in game once. You can do this by opening it in the editor and clicking test document / map. And if you still believe it needs more grass, then I shall add more, but otherwise I may just some more because yes, it does look plain. =]
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On July 22 2010 13:07 Amikar wrote:
Great job! Can't wait to try this out next week.
Thanks! xDD
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On July 22 2010 13:06 McCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:02 Joseph. wrote:
There is a couple of things though, make the 3rds only accessible by air. And make that little path in between the starting area and the rocks unpassable (if it is in the first place, the little part in between them seperating the golds from the other guys starting minerals) Making the third only being accessed by air I though would make terrain a little op, but if it isn't, it's really easily defended by zerg and terran anyway, and that little part where the water comes by the choke to make the choke a little smaller? Yeah, that'd be a good idea. =]
Terrain or Terran? I wouldn't think so either way, as far as the second comment though I was talking about this, circled in red, not sure if it's passable but just incase:
![[image loading]](http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6571/terrainexplain4.jpg)
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The start positions look way too close compared to the WC3 version but you could probably get away with that.
It looks like you've pushed everything towards the centre too much.
However, it has potential so keep at it.
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I think the map looks great. The easy 3rd gold is a little quirky but hey, a lot of maps have different quirks. Rush distances, hard expos, easy expos, etc. I think you did the original twisted meadows justice too.
I approve!
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Actually, I've changed my mind.
I didn't see the inner square outline so now it looks much less compact.
You need to make it a bit more attractive.
Right now it looks too boring.
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On July 22 2010 13:16 SiguR wrote:
I think the map looks great. The easy 3rd gold is a little quirky but hey, a lot of maps have different quirks. Rush distances, hard expos, easy expos, etc. I think you did the original twisted meadows justice too.
I approve!
Haha thanks. xDD
yeah, i may change some of those high yield to regular, but i'm not sure, haven't had the chance to test the map.
On July 22 2010 13:16 Fantistic wrote:
The start positions look way too close compared to the WC3 version but you could probably get away with that.
It looks like you've pushed everything towards the centre too much.
However, it has potential so keep at it.
Thanks you. Yeah, I didn't change the map size after I did the converter, which I prolly should have because space a a little limited haha.
On July 22 2010 13:13 Joseph. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:06 McCheese wrote:On July 22 2010 13:02 Joseph. wrote:
There is a couple of things though, make the 3rds only accessible by air. And make that little path in between the starting area and the rocks unpassable (if it is in the first place, the little part in between them seperating the golds from the other guys starting minerals) Making the third only being accessed by air I though would make terrain a little op, but if it isn't, it's really easily defended by zerg and terran anyway, and that little part where the water comes by the choke to make the choke a little smaller? Yeah, that'd be a good idea. =] Terrain or Terran? I wouldn't think so either way, as far as the second comment though I was talking about this, circled in red, not sure if it's passable but just incase:
nonono, that does not go up into the main, the only two ramps that do, is the one to the nat, and the other with the rocks on it.
On July 22 2010 13:19 Fantistic wrote:
Actually, I've changed my mind.
I didn't see the inner square outline so now it looks much less compact.
You need to make it a bit more attractive.
Right now it looks too boring.
haha, and you mean the terrain textures?
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i dont think wc3 maps work very well as ports, they dont have enough open space for the late game, and even though i've probly played 2000 games on TM, im just not feeling this, sorry =(
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This looks fun. I'd be interested to see how balance would play out.
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On July 22 2010 13:41 Motiva wrote:
This looks fun. I'd be interested to see how balance would play out.
Yeah, that's what I'm looking forward to too. I wanna see how all the races place on it, and know what I have to change and such. Shall be very interesting! =P
On July 22 2010 13:36 OdnoB wrote:
i dont think wc3 maps work very well as ports, they dont have enough open space for the late game, and even though i've probly played 2000 games on TM, im just not feeling this, sorry =(
That's absolutely fine, because every player has a different style and feel for maps, and not everyone likes the way maps are. Thanks for posting and giving some input tho, every little bit helps to improve my maps and how I design the new ones I come up with. xD
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Looks mech favored late. Chokes are tight and... tanks :-/.
Midgame looks like zerg would be happy with the expansion pathing and also with drops // nydus.
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On July 22 2010 14:03 dogabutila wrote:
Looks mech favored late. Chokes are tight and... tanks :-/.
Midgame looks like zerg would be happy with the expansion pathing and also with drops // nydus.
Yeah, thats the main thing I'm worried about it TANKS! haha They are always a big deal when I think of a map to make, because if the paths are too close one or two tanks can hold off a large area...they just make map designing that much more of a challenge, but I like it. Hopefully it doesn't get too bad tho, since the races together aren't quite perfectly "balanced" yet. Never know how things will change.
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Updated Twisted Meadows with more terrain textures and doodads. It may not look much different, but in-game and in the editor it looks much better. The view in the picture doesn't due justice, so I will be adding some in-game pics soon.
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Alright, now it has the pictures. Hope you enjoy. =]
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Ok, i played about 4000 wc3 games and TM was my favourite map so here are my suggestions.
1. replace the gold with the 3rd but make the gold an island.
2.close distance between gold and mains thats not suppose to take that gold.
3. Add a layer of terrain between natural and choke and make choke to natural smaller so a forge FE is possible.
4. Make the main farther from center because it feels sieged tanks can easily gurantee 5 bases...
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Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely will try my best to do those. But i'm not so sure about the gold being an island, because then terran will just lift off from their main and float over there...
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Bases look way to close for SC.
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Idea - make the gold an island, but put destructible rocks on it and make the current-gold expansions standard minerals (Or maybe just mineral only? I know a few times this happened in BW.)
This will fix the "free gold expo" for terran in the Early game, and fix the whole "omg free gold" for zerg as a 3rd. That way, it will force the expo to be taken far later in the game - when both races will likely have air tech available anyway.
As for the "need pressure to take the middle." argument, why not make a gold expo with 2 less mineral patches but 3 geysers (Like the double gas expos on a few BW maps IIRC). Just a thought.
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On July 23 2010 09:25 Backpack wrote:
Bases look way to close for SC.
The rush distances are fairly far enough, bust air distance, very very close.
Thats why I may be pulling everything away from the center a bit, put before I do,
I wanna get some testing in.
On July 23 2010 09:29 .ImpacT. wrote:
Idea - make the gold an island, but put destructible rocks on it. This will fix the "free gold expo" for terran in the Early game, and fix the whole "omg free gold" for zerg as a 3rd. That way, it will force the expo to be taken far later in the game - when both races will likely have air tech available anyway.
Lol idk why but I totally forgot about rocks when I posted that.
yeah, i'll do that. xD sounds like a great plan.
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Read again, the bottom portion of that.
As for the "need pressure to take the middle." argument, why not make a gold expo with 2 less mineral patches but 3 geysers (Like the double gas expos on a few BW maps IIRC). Just a thought.
Just added that.
Also, I designed a ton of Maps in BW (Mostly UMS, but still, basic design.) PM me if you want to hit me up on MSN/AIM and I'd be more than happy to discuss this map, it looks amazing so far.
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On July 23 2010 09:31 .ImpacT. wrote:Read again, the bottom portion of that. Show nested quote +As for the "need pressure to take the middle." argument, why not make a gold expo with 2 less mineral patches but 3 geysers (Like the double gas expos on a few BW maps IIRC). Just a thought. Just added that. Also, I designed a ton of Maps in BW (Mostly UMS, but still, basic design.) PM me if you want to hit me up on MSN/AIM and I'd be more than happy to discuss this map, it looks amazing so far.
Well thank you. And I was thinking about doing that, but when I finished the terrain part I didn't have much room, but I think I can squeez one in there.
And I just bought the special edition of Sc2 off Gamestop, but next week I'll be leaving for a week up north so I will not be home for release. =/ And after the Day[9] games tonight, I'll be reformatting my comp. So I won't have much time to chat or anything, but I'll have more time towards the middle of August. =D
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Something to consider (unless they changed it) is that certain units, like I believe the siege tank and hellions, can destroy trees.
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On July 23 2010 10:41 Risingred wrote:
Something to consider (unless they changed it) is that certain units, like I believe the siege tank and hellions, can destroy trees.
Yes, I think they roast the trees down, and tanks just wtf pwn them lol.
And what's also nest, is that creep kills the trees and bushes too. Its pretty neat.
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On July 23 2010 10:46 McCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:41 Risingred wrote:
Something to consider (unless they changed it) is that certain units, like I believe the siege tank and hellions, can destroy trees. Yes, I think they roast the trees down, and tanks just wtf pwn them lol. And what's also nest, is that creep kills the trees and bushes too. Its pretty neat.
Good call, that too. I don't know if that would affect the map at all in terms of balance, but it could be a plus just for burning/creeping eye candy.
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On July 23 2010 10:48 Risingred wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:46 McCheese wrote:On July 23 2010 10:41 Risingred wrote:
Something to consider (unless they changed it) is that certain units, like I believe the siege tank and hellions, can destroy trees. Yes, I think they roast the trees down, and tanks just wtf pwn them lol. And what's also nest, is that creep kills the trees and bushes too. Its pretty neat. Good call, that too. I don't know if that would affect the map at all in terms of balance, but it could be a plus just for burning/creeping eye candy.
Yeah, it makes the map play out slightly different and drastically changes the look of it.
Which I think is pretty cool. xD
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It would be nice to have the starting points at the corners or edges of the map, the short distances will make the games over very quickly and hardly ever be able to use all the expansion points.
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On July 23 2010 10:52 dbizzle wrote:
It would be nice to have the starting points at the corners or edges of the map, the short distances will make the games over very quickly and hardly ever be able to use all the expansion points.
It depends on how things go and how players wanna play it out and how well they can defend.
Like I said, this map has never been tested (that I know of), and therefore, needs to be.
There will be changes made, and therefore changing how the map plays out.
Only the future can tell. =]
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i agree that it could be different, but with the current beta maps, with most maps being relatively small. Games tend to be over in less than 12min, with the smalls maps it encourages everyone to all in and or cheese more often in that fear of 1 giant timing push. It would be nice to have bigger maps like kulas ravine (less rocks) to be able to use the map as a whole, to play the macro game and practice that. I find it very difficult to play macro when every other opponent can just all in and one of the only ways to counter that is play the mirror style. Longer distances to spawn points encourage different strategies. It's a shame that desert oasis is a 2 player map, if it was a 4 player map I think that map would be alot better
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On July 23 2010 11:01 dbizzle wrote:
i agree that it could be different, but with the current beta maps, with most maps being relatively small. Games tend to be over in less than 12min, with the smalls maps it encourages everyone to all in and or cheese more often in that fear of 1 giant timing push. It would be nice to have bigger maps like kulas ravine (less rocks) to be able to use the map as a whole, to play the macro game and practice that. I find it very difficult to play macro when every other opponent can just all in and one of the only ways to counter that is play the mirror style. Longer distances to spawn points encourage different strategies. It's a shame that desert oasis is a 2 player map, if it was a 4 player map I think that map would be alot better
Yes, I do agree with this, but, this is a 4 player map, and if you spawn cross positions, the rush distance is that much longer. Ofcourse you will not know this until you have scouted, but that does change the starts and plays people will use for the map which makes it even more interesting. And I agree with Desert Oasis, if they would have made it a 4 player, it'd be so much better.
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when i first looked at it i couldnt really see twisted meadows (played wc3 competitively forever)... but the map with the arrows and such helped. i like it, but it seems like the bases are a bit too close and there isnt much room to move an army along the rush path to other bases. maybe make the middle a bit more wide open like the wc3 TM.
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On July 23 2010 13:19 Mios wrote:
when i first looked at it i couldnt really see twisted meadows (played wc3 competitively forever)... but the map with the arrows and such helped. i like it, but it seems like the bases are a bit too close and there isnt much room to move an army along the rush path to other bases. maybe make the middle a bit more wide open like the wc3 TM.
Yes I may have to end up doing that, widening the center and spreading the bases out a bit. it will be a bit tricky but it will be done. I want some testing done on this version first, before I do anything crazy tho. xD
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Anymore suggestions for this map? I changed the gold to the 3rd and made it an island and change the gold to regular minerals. I would like this map to be tested if someone could get me some feedback on it, that'd make my day! Thanks.
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UPDATED! =] thank you for feedback.
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Dont even try to convert Wc3 maps to SC2. It just wont work
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^ Lol. Thanks for the encouragement.
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Hmmm... i like the 3rd as the main and having the main blocked off both ends like kulas ravine and having the gold expo there.
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I don't see how it's Zerg favored when I literally can't find a single place to get off a flank.
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On August 07 2010 01:45 FabledIntegral wrote:
I don't see how it's Zerg favored when I literally can't find a single place to get off a flank.
It was when the Island expo was a 3rd base that you could walk to and the gold was the gold expo.
On August 07 2010 01:41 AmaZing wrote:
Hmmm... i like the 3rd as the main and having the main blocked off both ends like kulas ravine and having the gold expo there.
So I'm assuming you like it?
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You need a different water set, that one has waves, you are portraying a river.
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On August 07 2010 01:58 Half wrote:
You need a different water set, that one has waves, you are portraying a river.
So you're saying the water that I have now makes it look like a river?
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Bumping for more feedback. =]
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For some reason I really love the remake of maps from one game to another. However, it is only because of artistic reasons. In other words, those kinds of maps are great to have fun with by coming up with weird or different strategies suitable to their peculiar geology. But when it comes to competitive play, those maps just don't have what it takes. In most of the cases, we're striving to achieve racial balance by keeping all of the races' strong and weak points on the same line.
Nonetheless, I love the look of your map!
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On August 22 2010 04:46 EsX_Raptor wrote:
For some reason I really love the remake of maps from one game to another. However, it is only because of artistic reasons. In other words, those kinds of maps are great to have fun with by coming up with weird or different strategies suitable to their peculiar geology. But when it comes to competitive play, those maps just don't have what it takes. In most of the cases, we're striving to achieve racial balance by keeping all of the races' strong and weak points on the same line.
Nonetheless, I love the look of your map!
Yes, I agree. The only map remakes I actually plan on being competitive are the ports from sc1. But I did try to make this as balanced as possible while still keeping the original look and feel of the map. I hope I did a good job. =D
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Canada9720 Posts
Moving this to the map forum.
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On August 24 2010 03:39 CTStalker wrote:
Moving this to the map forum.
Thank you. =D
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The map seems so small :O
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The main looks to exposed
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On August 24 2010 04:35 Retgery wrote:
The main looks to exposed
Exposed in which may? By air? Cause it's not exposed by cliff very much...
On August 24 2010 04:32 Tomken wrote:
The map seems so small :O
Yes, it does seem a little small, but its supposed to be intense.
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Your natural seems so hard to defend in close spots. Can you imagine ZvT at 11 and 1? The distance after your rocks are broken is so close.
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On August 24 2010 10:45 SC2Phoenix wrote:
Your natural seems so hard to defend in close spots. Can you imagine ZvT at 11 and 1? The distance after your rocks are broken is so close.
Yeah, but like I said in earlier post, its not really meant for tourny play or 1v1. Its prolly better with 1v1v1 or freeforall or something along that. I didn't intend for it to be played competitively. More like a fun map to make because its from WC3. I don't think many WC3 ports will work well in sc2 for competitive play. Thanks for the feedback tho. =]
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EPT![[image loading]](http://classic.battle.net/war3/images/ladder/maps/twistedmeadows.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/aaimister/main.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/aaimister/natgold.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/aaimister/3rd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k170/aaimister/watchtower.jpg)
