EPT![[image loading]](http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2412/4kulasravinenew3.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [Original Kulas] +
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7568/4kulasravineorig.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [Comparison gif] +
![[image loading]](http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7626/kulas2.gif)
+ Show Spoiler [Details] +
![[image loading]](http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5158/terrain005.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5010/terrain003.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/5686/terrain002.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1919/terrain001.jpg)
[Contest] Map Redesign Contest! - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games |
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Original Kulas] + + Show Spoiler [Comparison gif] + + Show Spoiler [Details] + | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On June 10 2010 16:19 a176 wrote: New Kulas Ravine ![[image loading]](http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8859/4kulasravinenew.jpg) + Show Spoiler [Original Kulas] + + Show Spoiler [Comparison gif] + ![[image loading]](http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8043/kulas.gif) + Show Spoiler [Details] + Whoa, I though one of the largest problems with this map was the wide open front expansion....you made it like 3x wider and with a highground overlooking the mineral line with a ramp facing the enemy... not cool | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
I disagree with those who say wide spaces in SC2 is instadeath. I believe quite the contrary. You have a much wider frontal attack area from the natural so you have more vectors to attack from, and your units don't get choked like in the original. You have a wider rear entrance as well. You have room to put more defenses behind the minerals now, and with the tower now accessible, your natural won't fall so easily to rushing tank drops thanks to vision. Also, the ramp from main to natural is extended out so its harder to place a row of tanks or cannons. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On June 10 2010 16:38 a176 wrote: That's right. I did. I disagree with those who say wide spaces in SC2 is instadeath. I believe quite the contrary. You have a much wider frontal attack area from the natural so you have more vectors to attack from, and your units don't get choked like in the original. You have a wider rear entrance as well. You have room to put more defenses behind the minerals now, and with the tower now accessible, your natural won't fall so easily to rushing tank drops thanks to vision. Also, the ramp from main to natural is extended out so its harder to place a row of tanks or cannons. I don't think anyone says that wide open spaces are death...Its just that the wider the entrance to the natural, the smaller the defenders advantage becomes. If you WANT taking/holding a third to be nearly impossible, ok, but that is what you are doing by opening up the choke like that. You have room to put more defenses behind the minerals now, and with the tower now accessible, your natural won't fall so easily to rushing tank drops thanks to vision. If you want that tower to be used defensively, you need to move the ramp towards the defenders side instead of out into the middle of the map...currently its going to be nearly impossible to hold because the attacker with an army in the center can just poke in and take it without even getting near the entrance to the natural. ALSO: ![[image loading]](http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8859/4kulasravinenew.jpg) Whats with these base cutouts you put in? They are completely different positionally...bottom left has this huge min-natural while top right has a narrow little strip. What are they for? Making reaper harass more viable? | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
As far as the wide spaces, all races will benefit from the challenge. Terrans can finally play like scbw style where you have to put down a line of mech to defend a larger area. Zerg can have that 'swarm'-like feel again as you see only elsewhere on Lost Temple. Protoss can no longer solely rely on forcefield to choke smaller areas. Also not in the above pictures, I've modified the tower positions so they don't immediately give away zerg expansions from creep, and removed the tower from the third. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On June 10 2010 16:50 sob3k wrote: Whats with these base cutouts you put in? They are completely different positionally...bottom left has this huge min-natural while top right has a narrow little strip. What are they for? Making reaper harass more viable? Basically. Still fine tuning those. Trying to make it big enough to allow for sneaky drops as well (out of range of turrets). (see original post) | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On June 10 2010 17:12 a176 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2010 16:50 sob3k wrote: Whats with these base cutouts you put in? They are completely different positionally...bottom left has this huge min-natural while top right has a narrow little strip. What are they for? Making reaper harass more viable? Basically. Still fine tuning those. Trying to make it big enough to allow for sneaky drops as well (out of range of turrets). ![[image loading]](http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8274/4kulasravinenew2.jpg) lol, you just hate defensive play don't you... | ||
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hi19hi19
United States163 Posts
On June 10 2010 17:12 a176 wrote: I think you're missing a set of rocks in the upper right. | ||
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
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prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
On June 10 2010 15:03 Mastermind wrote: I think you did a good job, and personally I dont think the small difference should matter, but I dont know how strict they will be with the contest. I thought I would let you know I noticed it. It would be a shame if it wasnt included because of that one small thing. Fair enough. I hope they're not that strict since if I have to keep them in precisely the same position I have to scrap that whole thing :< On June 10 2010 18:01 IaniAniaN wrote: I hope someone makes Reverse Temple! I was thinking about it but decided that's too obvious, and it would be really awkard given how SC2 is scaled versus SC1 | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On June 10 2010 17:31 hi19hi19 wrote: I think you're missing a set of rocks in the upper right. thanks for noticing.  On June 10 2010 17:19 sob3k wrote: lol, you just hate defensive play don't you... maybe i do final update for the night. first pic is tower vision. second picture with refined outcrops. allows for drops. turret range upgrade should cover to almost the edge of the outcrop. (see original post) | ||
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VelRa_G
Canada304 Posts
Neo Kulas Ravine 2.0 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Schmyesh/Neo-Kulas20.jpg) Old version (with original changes marked): + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Schmyesh/Neo-Kulas-notes.jpg) Thread | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
Anyone have feedback for my Incineration changes on page 2? They're pretty subtle changes I suppose, but they should have an impact on how the map plays out. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On June 11 2010 00:32 Logo wrote: I don't really like the safe 3rd in the Neo Kulas, but I do like the other changes. Looks pretty interesting to play on. Anyone have feedback for my Incineration changes on page 2? They're pretty subtle changes I suppose, but they should have an impact on how the map plays out. the changes to the gold are welcome but the map has fundamental problems with its extremely narrow choke coming out of the nat. its highly favored towards protoss and terran because of that choke, where you can abuse forcefield and mech turtle like there's no tomorrow. i do play as zerg but for me, i go mostly air so i'm not so affected by this map. by the contrary, the three close bases benefit me because i can get gas going fast and spam air. perhaps if you want to modify the map, approach it from that angle - make it balanced for ground forces from all three faces. | ||
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ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
On June 10 2010 18:10 prodiG wrote: Fair enough. I hope they're not that strict since if I have to keep them in precisely the same position I have to scrap that whole thing :< The rule that start locations can't be moved is primarily there to make sure that it remains a redesign contest and that the central feel of maps remain so it is not so much like completely new maps being designed from scratch. But seeing that there may be necessities to do some adjustment to allow for changes in ramps etc the rule will allow for start locations to be inched to the sides a little bit as long as they are not drastically moved. For example moving the starting locations on metalopolis a few hexes left or right to make room for a ramp is okay. Removing the natural and moving the start location all the way down to it would not be okay. Also additionally if there is any map submitted that does break any of the rules it will not be automatically disqualified but the creator will be made aware of it and given a chance to correct it before nominations are made. | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
Map V1.0 Desert Pwnasis:+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/Zoltang85/DO.jpg?1276146201) [V2.0 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/Zoltang85/DO20.png?t=1276204198) Features: Unique Circle Design remake (removed middle ground from map) No more island Expos- Moved Gold Expansions Moved main ramp for better defense of natural xpo Rocks on former island expos Access to highground above natural 3rd from former island expos 180 change on Main minerals to prevent excessive cliff abuse. Changes that will be coming with V 2.0 move xel naga towers to somewhat cover middle ground- edit size of paths around on left and right of map. Xel naga towers will be moved to high ground, as well as ramps added up to that high ground. Done! Also- added 2nd watchtowers near both nats for full coverage. Now with less cheese! | ||
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Mr Winky
United States39 Posts
On June 10 2010 16:19 a176 wrote: New Kulas Ravine + Show Spoiler [Original Kulas] + + Show Spoiler [Comparison gif] + + Show Spoiler [Details] + Zerg players are going to hate this map even more than the original. The cliff overlooking the natural is just BEGGING to be exploited by viking or other harass, especially since you have removed the ramp. This makes me a sad panda  | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On June 11 2010 02:32 a176 wrote: the changes to the gold are welcome but the map has fundamental problems with its extremely narrow choke coming out of the nat. its highly favored towards protoss and terran because of that choke, where you can abuse forcefield and mech turtle like there's no tomorrow. i do play as zerg but for me, i go mostly air so i'm not so affected by this map. by the contrary, the three close bases benefit me because i can get gas going fast and spam air. perhaps if you want to modify the map, approach it from that angle - make it balanced for ground forces from all three faces. That's actually what the double wide ramp is intended for. The idea being that Zerg can use the backdoor (which is already plenty wide), or take the double wide ramp from the 3rd as it circumvents the choke. Part of the subtle changes means that the inner route (through brush) is almost the same distance as by the watch tower (it's about 1 tile longer, it was originally the longer route after my changes so I had to make adjustments). So, hopefully, this also means going by the 3rd is close in distance to the shortest route. This way entering via the 3rd is supposed to be more viable. I'll run some more distance tests and tweak accordingly though. I may even double wide the other ramp down to the 3rds so it's a entirely choke free path for zerg. The big potential problem with the route is the main's cliff is right there next to the double ramp. The other part of zerg balance was the moving of the 3rd closer to the nat. This is ideally intended to let Zerg grab a 3rd on this map and have an econ advantage. On top of that it's harder for other races to hold that 3rd from zerg because zerg has more room to get down on the lower level and form an arc while the defenders will be a little more cramped if they stay close to the 3rd. I'm not trying to make this a zerg favored map though. I want it to be a little more like Steppes of War (actually slightly better ideally) where it's a possible pick vs Zerg, but Zerg can still win. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On June 11 2010 05:42 Mr Winky wrote: Zerg players are going to hate this map even more than the original. The cliff overlooking the natural is just BEGGING to be exploited by viking or other harass, especially since you have removed the ramp. This makes me a sad panda the tower provides vision so you'll have no problem attacking anything that's up there. | ||
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Red7z7
United States74 Posts
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