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Alright folks, the beta is down and every sensible nerd is already tasting the bitter fruit of withdrawal symptoms. Obviously, increased social activity, exercise or just about any activity that does not take place in front of a screen and relates somehow to Starcraft is just not acceptable and clearly out of the question. But I have the solution to your despair! During the downtime between now and the launch of the second phase of the beta I am opening a friendly contest for all of those who will be killing some of the downtime in the Galaxy Editor.
Is Desert Oasis inviting cheese? Is Incineration Zone a massive tankfest? Is it a bit too suspicious that zerg players always pick Metalopolis when they get to choose map in a tournament? This will be your chance to prove that you are smarter than the Blizzard designers, and more insightful into what make a great competitive map. This is your chance to show the community how you think that the existing Starcraft 2 melee maps should look.
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The rules are simple, you pick a map from the starcraft 2 map pool that you wish to redesign, perhaps it is a map that you feel desperately need a tweak or balance change *cough* Incineration Zone *cough*, or maybe you just want to make an alternate version of your favorite map.
Open it up in the Galaxy Editor and go wild with it and then send me a PM containing a screenshot of the entire map, as well as a download link for the map itself. You may make as few or as many changes as you wish as long as the original map is recognizable with the following restrictions and rules.
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Rules and Restrictions
You MAY:
- You may pick any standard 1v1 map, mods of the following are allowed; Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Incineration Zone, Kulas Ravine, Lost Temple, Metalopolis, Scrap Station and Steppes of war.
- Do complete changes to terrain and textures, create and remove cliffs, add ramps, make islands, add water etc.
- Add and remove expansions or change normal expansions into rich and vice versa.
- Add and remove Xel'Naga watchtowers and destructible rocks.
You may NOT:
- Pick any of the team maps, mods of the following maps are not allowed in the contest; Arid Wastes, Coalition, Decena or Scorched Haven.
- Alter the map size or the boundaries.
- Alter the number of players.
- Move starting locations. (You can however lower or raise the starting position's cliff height and moving them a few hexes to either side is accepted if necessary.)
- Add, remove or swap textures in the tileset.
- Add any custom triggers or mechanics that are not available in a standard melee map.
Where do I get the maps so I can start modifying?
Thanks to some gifted people all of the Blizzard standard maps are available in a mappack here:
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/official-melee-maps/
DO NOTE THAT NOT ALL OF THE MAPS IN THE MAPPACK ARE ELIGABLE FOR THIS CONTEST.
Check the rules and regulations to see which maps you can and cannot submit redesigns for.
When does the contest end?
The contest will end on the same day as the second phase of the beta test begins, when Blizzard lets us know precisely which date that is, I will add it into this thread.
How are the winners chosen?
A committee consisting of myself, and and a handful of select members of the community will select the best maps from all the submitted ones. Then a poll will be opened here on the Team Liquid Forum where you will all be able to vote on the nominees. (If you are a high level player or commentator and interested in being on the committee please contact me)
Maps will be judged on how creative the redesign is and on how balanced the map is for competitive play. Eye candy with a badrillion doodads will not be key however beauty could be a tie breaking factor if two maps are even on the previous two aspects.
Is there a prize?
Just honor and glory, at least for the moment. This contest is mainly just a friendly way to pass the time when the beta is down.
Showmatch Event
If we get enough submissions and there is a solid interest in this contest then my hope is that before the game goes retail we will be able to convince one or two of the amazingly skilled casters we have here in the community as well as two or more well known competitive players to show off the winning maps in a live showmatch series/tournament.
I cannot make any guarantees that this can be arranged obviously but if any of the casters and top players are interested in potentially helping out with this, feel free to PM me and let me know.
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I have checked if there are any similar contests running and I have not found any but if there are and I missed it feel free to let me know, also please post suggestions and feedback in this thread to let me get an idea of whether or not there is any interest in this.
(I don't know if this post should be in the Starcraft 2 section or in the Tournament section. Feel free to move it if I picked the wrong one of the two).
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I am a bit confused about the "you may not change the terrain theme" rule. First of all, why? And also, would this mean that modifying the tileset to add say.. grass to incineration zone but keeping everything else in the tileset intact would be against the rules and get you disqualified?
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Do i have to send per PM or are i also allowed to just post my pictures with changes here in this thread?
//
Just recognized you didn't count Desert Oasis as Standard 1v1 Map. So here would be my changes to DO.
![[image loading]](http://image-upload.de/image/dRogQ0/f40bab2b2d.jpg)
Removed the old ramp.
Added two new ramps (one blocked with a stone). Unblocked ramp is closer to the the small choke at the natural.
Added a new small passage to the natural (blocked with a stone).
Added more gaps around the main (makes it harder for reapers/... to get in).
Added a small high ground at the naturals (can be dropped on / used by reapers (makes FE little harder hold).
Added a ramp to the high ground around the expansion top left / bottom right to the main (allows for anti drop there).
Made the gap at this expansions to the watchtowers a little smaller (easier to hold).
Added 2 new ramps to the mid (distance to enemy will keep the same due to new ramps). Units will take this ramp (shortest path). Also changed the terrain there > no more attackable main with tanks from those positions).
Added new sight blockers around the watchtowers and next to the gold expansions.
Hope i didn't forgot anything to mention.
Feedback please 
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On June 08 2010 14:12 Wihl wrote:
I am a bit confused about the "you may not change the terrain theme" rule. First of all, why? And also, would this mean that modifying the tileset to add say.. grass to incineration zone but keeping everything else in the tileset intact would be against the rules and get you disqualified?
The reason is mainly just that the contest is solely focused on how to best refine existing maps to make them better from a gameplay perspective, making changes to the tileset should not be necessary to accomplish this we felt and the rule is pretty much there to avoid getting a lot of "hey I made a lava version of Kulas Ravine" submissions. So you can only work with the textures that are in the tileset of the map already, but you may repaint with those textures all you like.
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I would love to participate but i dont know jack about the editor, could anyone point me to a nice melee map tutorial so that i may be enligthened? x3
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For some reason I expect a whole bunch of "exact" SC:BW LT remakes
Some people can't agree on whether the new map features (watchtowers ea) are balanced. But just removing all the new features is not very creative. It will be a heated poll.
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Something I would like to see is all the SC2 maps on SC:BW 
(Unless this is just that xD)
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pretty illogical that you cant change the starting locations. if someone wanted to move a ramp closer to the mineral line, say on desert oasis then they'd have to move the starting location otherwise it just wouldnt work
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On June 08 2010 23:25 SoMuchBetter wrote:
pretty illogical that you cant change the starting locations. if someone wanted to move a ramp closer to the mineral line, say on desert oasis then they'd have to move the starting location otherwise it just wouldnt work
Remember that you can completely change the actual high ground though on which the starting position is, if you want to have a ramp on another part and you feel it is too close to the minerals you are free to extend the high ground. You can make pretty substantial changes to terrain I mean you could extend the high ground so far that you connect the main to the island expansion etc. Also remember that you can move the resources at the starting position. You can move the mineral line to face the opponent on Desert Oasis rather than towards the corner as it is now. It is just the actual position of the player spawn that you cannot move.
The reasoning is partly that considering how much other stuff you can change, moving starting locations too will end up taking maps closer to being completely new maps rather than mods, but also because the starting positions on the different maps to a huge extent give the maps their character. On Scrap Station the whole core of the map design is that you start close to each other and the map extends away from the players.
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This sounds like fun, I may just have to see what I can do. Already got some ideas floating around.
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alterations are needed to keep the intended balance building and unit sizes aren't the same, also there is cliff walking which really changes some harass points.
So i think most maps need a slight increase in their map boundaries to fit everything in there right.
Also no longinus?!?!?! how am i suppose to play zerg then call imba map aganist my friends.
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Just double checking before i do it, can i move the starting location Resources? as in they will still be there but be faceing a different way.
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On June 09 2010 01:34 Madkipz wrote:
Just double checking before i do it, can i move the starting location Resources? as in they will still be there but be faceing a different way.
Yes, you can also raise the ground or lower the ground under the starting location, the only thing you cannot do is to move the actual spawning position for the CC/Hatchery/Nexus to a different hex.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Still no feedback on my changes? ^^
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I will definitely jump on this when I get home from work. There are some definite modifications I want to make to some of these maps...
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I have created a new version of Steppes of War for the contest, you can check it out here.
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The DO remake looks nice, but I'm not sure about the position of the 2nd ramp. I just don't really see the point of it. The defenders can switch between covering each ramp so quickly that it's not going to matter as a benefit to the attacker.
The only matchup where I can see it making a difference is ZvP where Protoss might block the ramp with zealots and the Zerg is aggressing with lings and they can now attack the ramp to force the zealots out. The thing about that is on DO it's not really the best way to play Zerg since the long rush distances gives you a great expand/macro game plan, especially with your other changes.
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holy shit, dibs on metalopolis!
gg gl hf everyone~
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On June 09 2010 07:03 prodiG wrote:
holy shit, dibs on metalopolis!
gg gl hf everyone~
there arent any dibs ;P
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On June 09 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2010 07:03 prodiG wrote:
holy shit, dibs on metalopolis!
gg gl hf everyone~ there arent any dibs ;P
i know
...and looking at metal, i'm starting to have second thoughts. the map is so standard!
we'll see~
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Here's my entry so far:
Map Name: Ignition Zone
Based on: Incineration Zone (duh)
Description: Even as one of the most hated maps in beta I wanted to keep the style of incineration zone the same. While the map is really aggressive, it can produce pretty interesting games. The problem, other than players wanting more macro focused maps, is the racial imbalanced, especially siege tanks. So the main goal was to hopefully even that out a bit and give zerg a little more chance on the map. Aesthetically I decided to go with a pre-wreckage style hence the name Ignition Zone. So all of the wreckage has been replaced with pre-wreckage Terran doodads.
Summary of Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Main ramp is further north, a little closer to the ramp to the third
- Natural has been moved up towards the main ramp. Zerg can now just barely block their ramp with spine crawlers from their natural hatchery.
- Ramp to third is now a double wide ramp.
- Third is moved closer to the natural. This should make it a little more practical to secure the 3rd expo.
- Cliffs between natural and push paths extends further out to make short push route a little longer. Ramp to ramp distances should be about the same since the ramp was moved.
- Gold Expo has a smaller platform. Siege tanks on the gold expo can only poke at 1 gas of the natural and nothing more. Tanks from the little cliff edge in the main can still siege the gold though. I can remove that cliff, but it's a nice little hiding spot for tech.
Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Natural:
+ Show Spoiler +
Gold Expo:
+ Show Spoiler +
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
On June 09 2010 03:09 Logo wrote:
The DO remake looks nice, but I'm not sure about the position of the 2nd ramp. I just don't really see the point of it. The defenders can switch between covering each ramp so quickly that it's not going to matter as a benefit to the attacker.
The only matchup where I can see it making a difference is ZvP where Protoss might block the ramp with zealots and the Zerg is aggressing with lings and they can now attack the ramp to force the zealots out. The thing about that is on DO it's not really the best way to play Zerg since the long rush distances gives you a great expand/macro game plan, especially with your other changes.
This ramp is there to enable you to quicker move your troops between main / nat / expo during the later stages of the game. My intention wasn't to add backdoor entrance (because i dislike this new feature) but still to add another way to get inside.
My overall concept was to make it a little easier for all races to get some expos and hold them. I also added some higher cliffs to prevent reaper harass (even as terran myself i dislike this map because of this).
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My unfinished gem, just putting it out here so nobody starts copying my build, THIS IS 10 hours of work already, sheesh but thats just me being slow. its like 3/5 done, missing a few doodads but the overall concept is there.
Still terran biased though
![[image loading]](http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/294/terrain003q.jpg)
ive done so many changes except to the overall layout. I bulldozed the entire map, built it up from ground after deleting every shrubbery and doodad on the map backdoor nat easily defended but can currently be bombarded by air and siege and in general done my best to slow the pace of this map as much as i could percieve.
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Madkipz I like that! totally changed the flow of the map.
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On June 10 2010 08:10 Madkipz wrote:My unfinished gem, just putting it out here so nobody starts copying my build, THIS IS 10 hours of work already, sheesh but thats just me being slow. its like 3/5 done, missing a few doodads but the overall concept is there. Still terran biased though ive done so many changes except to the overall layout. I bulldozed the entire map, built it up from ground after deleting every shrubbery and doodad on the map backdoor nat easily defended but can currently be bombarded by air and siege and in general done my best to slow the pace of this map as much as i could percieve.
That is so insanely over the top unimaginably terran biased. Easy to get third and even fourth, you can tank the enemy's expo, and no backdoor to defend.
edit: maybe making a lot of the middle more open and removing the high ground for the third would make this less imba? its your map of course though.
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Middle is already pretty open with two pretty large ramps at your third i was thinking of using shrubbery to close off my watchtowers etc, its hard to show you exactly how the map layoug is from that distance so i will make a blog post about it with more close ups.
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I'm remodeling a map now... :D
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prodig that is awesome...
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This contest sounds fun. I made a new Version of DO, because I actually hated the original.
I do not think that I know anything about balancing or can do better than blizzard, but I think the reason those maps are ingame is because they are made to test the balance in extrem scenarious, because it is beta.
I think I switched it to something more fun to play.
![[image loading]](http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1050/2dawnsdesertoasis.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +The natural only has one entrance now, which is protected by rocks.
The other Entrance I closed by drawing a extrem small cliff to the main (warp in pylons - yay).
There is a second ramp at main, shortening the rush distance
The Island expansions are now reachable per ramp
Removed the Xel'naga tower in the middle
I also made the sand more sandier and the grass a little bit greener.
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On June 09 2010 16:34 prodiG wrote:I've finished Neo Metalopolis v1.0, I don't think I'm going to officially submit it until just before the contest ends incase I decide to make changes ![[image loading]](http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9449/neometalopoliscompariso.gif) + Show Spoiler [Neo Metalopolis 1.0 Still image] +Neo Metalopolis![[image loading]](http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6622/neometalopolisv10.jpg) ...The map image tool in the editor decided to clip out the road at the 6oclock natural for some reason... Original Metalopolis![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8504/metaolopolis.jpg) Features/Changes: -Main on double high ground -Nat on high ground, large ramp to middle with not a lot of space above it, making fights there more challenging -Nat backdoor to third, ramp out to middle -Gold minerals easily to harass I wanted to make the map a bit harder to macro on, and I believe this is what I've accomplished here.
You appear to have moved 2 of the start locations which would be a rule violation.
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On June 10 2010 10:34 Mastermind wrote:
You appear to have moved 2 of the start locations which would be a rule violation.
...by that little? The bases and naturals aren't the same size on stock metalopolis,i didn't have much of a choice because i had to balance/mirror all of the bases
Had I left them the same, some of the ramps out to the natural would have been a third of the size of the others which voids my design completely
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On June 09 2010 16:34 prodiG wrote:I've finished Neo Metalopolis v1.0, I don't think I'm going to officially submit it until just before the contest ends incase I decide to make changes + Show Spoiler [Neo Metalopolis 1.0 Still image] +Neo Metalopolis...The map image tool in the editor decided to clip out the road at the 6oclock natural for some reason... Original Metalopolis Features/Changes: -Main on double high ground -Nat on high ground, large ramp to middle with not a lot of space above it, making fights there more challenging -Nat backdoor to third, ramp out to middle -Gold minerals easily to harass I wanted to make the map a bit harder to macro on, and I believe this is what I've accomplished here.
i really like this version of metalopolis. good job dude =D
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On June 09 2010 16:34 prodiG wrote:I've finished Neo Metalopolis v1.0, I don't think I'm going to officially submit it until just before the contest ends incase I decide to make changes + Show Spoiler [Neo Metalopolis 1.0 Still image] +Neo Metalopolis...The map image tool in the editor decided to clip out the road at the 6oclock natural for some reason... Original Metalopolis Features/Changes: -Main on double high ground -Nat on high ground, large ramp to middle with not a lot of space above it, making fights there more challenging -Nat backdoor to third, ramp out to middle -Gold minerals easily to harass I wanted to make the map a bit harder to macro on, and I believe this is what I've accomplished here.
Looks good except the gold expansion....I guess you moved the minerals to make them more (ground) harassable, but it is a big mapping No-no 90% of the time to split minerals and gas to four sides. It looks cool but in gameplay it is a huge mess with SCV's going everywhere. It makes it a complete nightmare to get defending units into and out of the expansion as you end up mixed in with workers from gas or mins.
I would HIGHLY advise you to move the gas geysers to the outside of the expansions if you want to make the expansions more vulnerable, but still leave a free movement zone for units on the other side of the CC's
If you notice in BW, the only times gas and minerals are arranged in four sides is in expos that are supposed to be completely undefendable (fighting spirit center bases) and rarely used.
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On June 10 2010 12:53 sob3k wrote:
Looks good except the gold expansion....I guess you moved the minerals to make them more (ground) harassable, but it is a big mapping No-no 90% of the time to split minerals and gas to four sides. It looks cool but in gameplay it is a huge mess with SCV's going everywhere. It makes it a complete nightmare to get defending units into and out of the expansion as you end up mixed in with workers from gas or mins.
I would HIGHLY advise you to move the gas geysers to the outside of the expansions if you want to make the expansions more vulnerable, but still leave a free movement zone for units on the other side of the CC's
If you notice in BW, the only times gas and minerals are arranged in four sides is in expos that are supposed to be completely undefendable (fighting spirit center bases) and rarely used.
Yeah, i'm not sold on the gas positioning yet, but i'm pretty sure the minerals are going to stay the way they are.
I wonder if I download an AI mod I can rig it up to play some test games and see how I feel
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Updated with version 0,2 just to perhaps rake in a few more comments on Jigglypuff zone:
![[image loading]](http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/4655/2madkipzincinerationzon.jpg)
changes, There is no backdoor entrance to your opponents main instead there is an easily taken yet even easier to harass expansion there and well plenty of other changes, just cba to list every single one such as the backdoor entrance into opponents natural third base on top right corner im trying to be subtle but no matter what you do this will always be looked upon as a terran map even if stalkers can blink into your base at some point.
makeing good use of destructible rocks, watchtowers and a few other doodads, Considering how much work ive already put into it i sort of feel this tingly proud sensation in my head.
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It is very nice to see all of these maps popping up already, there is a lot of very interesting stuff that can be done with the existing map pool. Keep them coming folks
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Hey, I would love to participate in this, but I haven't played enough beta recently to really think I know the weaknesses of the maps....
If someone would tell me what exactly the main problems are with 1 or 2 of the worst maps, I def have enough mapping experience to give fixing them a shot.
Can someone outline the major problems/weaknesses on 1-2 maps so I can start a revision?
![[image loading]](http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6950/arrw.jpg)
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On June 10 2010 12:17 prodiG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 10:34 Mastermind wrote:
You appear to have moved 2 of the start locations which would be a rule violation. ...by that little? The bases and naturals aren't the same size on stock metalopolis,i didn't have much of a choice because i had to balance/mirror all of the bases Had I left them the same, some of the ramps out to the natural would have been a third of the size of the others which voids my design completely
I think you did a good job, and personally I dont think the small difference should matter, but I dont know how strict they will be with the contest. I thought I would let you know I noticed it. It would be a shame if it wasnt included because of that one small thing.
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Whoa, I though one of the largest problems with this map was the wide open front expansion....you made it like 3x wider and with a highground overlooking the mineral line with a ramp facing the enemy...
not cool
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That's right. I did.
I disagree with those who say wide spaces in SC2 is instadeath. I believe quite the contrary.
You have a much wider frontal attack area from the natural so you have more vectors to attack from, and your units don't get choked like in the original. You have a wider rear entrance as well. You have room to put more defenses behind the minerals now, and with the tower now accessible, your natural won't fall so easily to rushing tank drops thanks to vision.
Also, the ramp from main to natural is extended out so its harder to place a row of tanks or cannons.
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On June 10 2010 16:38 a176 wrote:
That's right. I did.
I disagree with those who say wide spaces in SC2 is instadeath. I believe quite the contrary.
You have a much wider frontal attack area from the natural so you have more vectors to attack from, and your units don't get choked like in the original. You have a wider rear entrance as well. You have room to put more defenses behind the minerals now, and with the tower now accessible, your natural won't fall so easily to rushing tank drops thanks to vision.
Also, the ramp from main to natural is extended out so its harder to place a row of tanks or cannons.
I don't think anyone says that wide open spaces are death...Its just that the wider the entrance to the natural, the smaller the defenders advantage becomes. If you WANT taking/holding a third to be nearly impossible, ok, but that is what you are doing by opening up the choke like that.
You have room to put more defenses behind the minerals now, and with the tower now accessible, your natural won't fall so easily to rushing tank drops thanks to vision.
If you want that tower to be used defensively, you need to move the ramp towards the defenders side instead of out into the middle of the map...currently its going to be nearly impossible to hold because the attacker with an army in the center can just poke in and take it without even getting near the entrance to the natural.
ALSO:
![[image loading]](http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8859/4kulasravinenew.jpg)
Whats with these base cutouts you put in? They are completely different positionally...bottom left has this huge min-natural while top right has a narrow little strip. What are they for? Making reaper harass more viable?
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There's enough babysitting in this game as it is. Having the ramp at the front makes it a challenge for both the defender and the attacker. Invest in static defense there or having a small force making sure no one takes the vision from you.
As far as the wide spaces, all races will benefit from the challenge. Terrans can finally play like scbw style where you have to put down a line of mech to defend a larger area. Zerg can have that 'swarm'-like feel again as you see only elsewhere on Lost Temple. Protoss can no longer solely rely on forcefield to choke smaller areas.
Also not in the above pictures, I've modified the tower positions so they don't immediately give away zerg expansions from creep, and removed the tower from the third.
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On June 10 2010 16:50 sob3k wrote:
Whats with these base cutouts you put in? They are completely different positionally...bottom left has this huge min-natural while top right has a narrow little strip. What are they for? Making reaper harass more viable?
Basically. Still fine tuning those. Trying to make it big enough to allow for sneaky drops as well (out of range of turrets).
(see original post)
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On June 10 2010 17:12 a176 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 10 2010 16:50 sob3k wrote:
Whats with these base cutouts you put in? They are completely different positionally...bottom left has this huge min-natural while top right has a narrow little strip. What are they for? Making reaper harass more viable? Basically. Still fine tuning those. Trying to make it big enough to allow for sneaky drops as well (out of range of turrets). ![[image loading]](http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8274/4kulasravinenew2.jpg)
lol, you just hate defensive play don't you...
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On June 10 2010 17:12 a176 wrote:
I think you're missing a set of rocks in the upper right.
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I hope someone makes Reverse Temple!
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On June 10 2010 15:03 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2010 12:17 prodiG wrote:On June 10 2010 10:34 Mastermind wrote:
You appear to have moved 2 of the start locations which would be a rule violation. ...by that little? The bases and naturals aren't the same size on stock metalopolis,i didn't have much of a choice because i had to balance/mirror all of the bases Had I left them the same, some of the ramps out to the natural would have been a third of the size of the others which voids my design completely I think you did a good job, and personally I dont think the small difference should matter, but I dont know how strict they will be with the contest. I thought I would let you know I noticed it. It would be a shame if it wasnt included because of that one small thing.
Fair enough. I hope they're not that strict since if I have to keep them in precisely the same position I have to scrap that whole thing :<
On June 10 2010 18:01 IaniAniaN wrote:
I hope someone makes Reverse Temple!
I was thinking about it but decided that's too obvious, and it would be really awkard given how SC2 is scaled versus SC1
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On June 10 2010 17:31 hi19hi19 wrote:I think you're missing a set of rocks in the upper right.
thanks for noticing.
On June 10 2010 17:19 sob3k wrote:
lol, you just hate defensive play don't you...
maybe i do
final update for the night. first pic is tower vision. second picture with refined outcrops. allows for drops. turret range upgrade should cover to almost the edge of the outcrop.
(see original post)
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Here is my Neo Kulas Ravine. It seems to disagree entirely with the vision of the above revision.
Neo Kulas Ravine 2.0
+ Show Spoiler +
Old version (with original changes marked):
+ Show Spoiler +
Thread
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I don't really like the safe 3rd in the Neo Kulas, but I do like the other changes. Looks pretty interesting to play on.
Anyone have feedback for my Incineration changes on page 2? They're pretty subtle changes I suppose, but they should have an impact on how the map plays out.
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On June 11 2010 00:32 Logo wrote:
I don't really like the safe 3rd in the Neo Kulas, but I do like the other changes. Looks pretty interesting to play on.
Anyone have feedback for my Incineration changes on page 2? They're pretty subtle changes I suppose, but they should have an impact on how the map plays out.
the changes to the gold are welcome but the map has fundamental problems with its extremely narrow choke coming out of the nat. its highly favored towards protoss and terran because of that choke, where you can abuse forcefield and mech turtle like there's no tomorrow.
i do play as zerg but for me, i go mostly air so i'm not so affected by this map. by the contrary, the three close bases benefit me because i can get gas going fast and spam air. perhaps if you want to modify the map, approach it from that angle - make it balanced for ground forces from all three faces.
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On June 10 2010 18:10 prodiG wrote:
Fair enough. I hope they're not that strict since if I have to keep them in precisely the same position I have to scrap that whole thing :<
The rule that start locations can't be moved is primarily there to make sure that it remains a redesign contest and that the central feel of maps remain so it is not so much like completely new maps being designed from scratch. But seeing that there may be necessities to do some adjustment to allow for changes in ramps etc the rule will allow for start locations to be inched to the sides a little bit as long as they are not drastically moved. For example moving the starting locations on metalopolis a few hexes left or right to make room for a ramp is okay. Removing the natural and moving the start location all the way down to it would not be okay.
Also additionally if there is any map submitted that does break any of the rules it will not be automatically disqualified but the creator will be made aware of it and given a chance to correct it before nominations are made.
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My DO remake for the contest
Map V1.0 Desert Pwnasis:+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/Zoltang85/DO.jpg?1276146201) [
V2.0
+ Show Spoiler +
Features: Unique Circle Design remake (removed middle ground from map)
No more island Expos-
Moved Gold Expansions
Moved main ramp for better defense of natural xpo
Rocks on former island expos
Access to highground above natural 3rd from former island expos
180 change on Main minerals to prevent excessive cliff abuse.
Changes that will be coming with V 2.0
move xel naga towers to somewhat cover middle ground- edit size of paths around on left and right of map. Xel naga towers will be moved to high ground, as well as ramps added up to that high ground.
Done!
Also- added 2nd watchtowers near both nats for full coverage. Now with less cheese!
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Zerg players are going to hate this map even more than the original. The cliff overlooking the natural is just BEGGING to be exploited by viking or other harass, especially since you have removed the ramp.
This makes me a sad panda 
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On June 11 2010 02:32 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 00:32 Logo wrote:
I don't really like the safe 3rd in the Neo Kulas, but I do like the other changes. Looks pretty interesting to play on.
Anyone have feedback for my Incineration changes on page 2? They're pretty subtle changes I suppose, but they should have an impact on how the map plays out. the changes to the gold are welcome but the map has fundamental problems with its extremely narrow choke coming out of the nat. its highly favored towards protoss and terran because of that choke, where you can abuse forcefield and mech turtle like there's no tomorrow. i do play as zerg but for me, i go mostly air so i'm not so affected by this map. by the contrary, the three close bases benefit me because i can get gas going fast and spam air. perhaps if you want to modify the map, approach it from that angle - make it balanced for ground forces from all three faces.
That's actually what the double wide ramp is intended for. The idea being that Zerg can use the backdoor (which is already plenty wide), or take the double wide ramp from the 3rd as it circumvents the choke.
Part of the subtle changes means that the inner route (through brush) is almost the same distance as by the watch tower (it's about 1 tile longer, it was originally the longer route after my changes so I had to make adjustments). So, hopefully, this also means going by the 3rd is close in distance to the shortest route. This way entering via the 3rd is supposed to be more viable. I'll run some more distance tests and tweak accordingly though. I may even double wide the other ramp down to the 3rds so it's a entirely choke free path for zerg. The big potential problem with the route is the main's cliff is right there next to the double ramp.
The other part of zerg balance was the moving of the 3rd closer to the nat. This is ideally intended to let Zerg grab a 3rd on this map and have an econ advantage. On top of that it's harder for other races to hold that 3rd from zerg because zerg has more room to get down on the lower level and form an arc while the defenders will be a little more cramped if they stay close to the 3rd.
I'm not trying to make this a zerg favored map though. I want it to be a little more like Steppes of War (actually slightly better ideally) where it's a possible pick vs Zerg, but Zerg can still win.
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On June 11 2010 05:42 Mr Winky wrote:Zerg players are going to hate this map even more than the original. The cliff overlooking the natural is just BEGGING to be exploited by viking or other harass, especially since you have removed the ramp. This makes me a sad panda
the tower provides vision so you'll have no problem attacking anything that's up there.
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hey i have a mapmaking question. im remodeling blistering sands and i cant seem to able to place any sort of doodads in the deep crevaces. there's plenty of space to place them, and there are already doodads around that area that the original maker placed. not sure what the problem is. can anyone help me out?
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On June 11 2010 15:06 Red7z7 wrote:
hey i have a mapmaking question. im remodeling blistering sands and i cant seem to able to place any sort of doodads in the deep crevaces. there's plenty of space to place them, and there are already doodads around that area that the original maker placed. not sure what the problem is. can anyone help me out?
If you hold shift while placing a doodad you can place it where it normally isn't allowed to be placed.
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Scrap Station 2.0
Image
+ Show Spoiler +
With notes
+ Show Spoiler +
Did this in about an hour last night, so it's not entirely polished, but I thought it was worth posting. I decided to redo Scrap Station. I don't think it's a map that needs a lot of balancing, I just did it to see if I could change the playstyle of the map a bit, from 2-base oriented to 3 or 4 base macro (something that isn't seen too often on two player maps).
The biggest changes happened to bottom bases, which I've seen used in ladder games... maybe two or three times. I connected the island bases to the mainland in three ways: a ramp from the metal plateaus by the natural, a sight-blocked chokepoint near the middle, and a more broad entrance from the bottom. It is rather easy to defend if you focus your entire army on the third, but I also wanted to make the blocked-off bridge more of a threat by adding a tower to its center. This gives the first army to advance across the bridge a significant advantage. The intent is to make map awareness and mobility more important.
I also added small sight-blocked areas to the mains, I think they open up some interesting gameplay options (drops, proxies, hidden tech, etc).
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On June 11 2010 00:29 VelRa_G wrote:Here is my Neo Kulas Ravine. It seems to disagree entirely with the vision of the above revision. Neo Kulas Ravine 2.0+ Show Spoiler +Old version (with original changes marked):+ Show Spoiler +Thread
Put 3rd (I'm guessing the base that was originally the natural since your main natural was blocked by rocks became the third) back to it's original spot and it'll be cash.
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This is my take on Kulas Ravine:
Kulas Ravine SE
![[image loading]](http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3350/kulasravinese.jpg)
I'll write a proper description tomorrow since it's very late over here. The map looks much better in game. I think the middle looks especially gorgous.
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im having a lot of trouble making a ramp go from mandmade cliffs to organic ground. for some reason the system wants to make a lower cliff around all manmade cliffs. anyone know whats going on?
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On June 12 2010 09:51 Red7z7 wrote:
im having a lot of trouble making a ramp go from mandmade cliffs to organic ground. for some reason the system wants to make a lower cliff around all manmade cliffs. anyone know whats going on?
dosnt work for some reason with my limited knowledge. I know its possible because the official maps have organic and manmade cliffing but so far i havent found a way but i know blizzard have found one.
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On June 12 2010 09:51 Red7z7 wrote:
im having a lot of trouble making a ramp go from mandmade cliffs to organic ground. for some reason the system wants to make a lower cliff around all manmade cliffs. anyone know whats going on?
Hit Shift+I, or go to Tools -> Brush -> Allow Cliff Merging.
Yeah, this one took me about 30 frustrated minutes to figure out too ><
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Actually I didn't really wanna post my entry here first but I figured that some feedback might help to improve it^^ So there it goes:
(2) Consideration Zone
Pic:
+ Show Spoiler +
Description:
My main goal was obviously to make it a bit harder for Terran, hence more balanced generally. All the bases are as much apart from each other so that sieged tanks aren't able to shoot at any necessary buildings (Main building/Geyser). I moved the naturals slightly away from the cliffs to decrease the ease of harrassement, additionally I removed the ground around it, making it harder to swing between natural->high yield->natural etc. All the chokes are a bit wider and the high yield expansion is now high ground, not low ground anymore to make it easier to hold. The last bigger change I can think of is that I turned the bottom left expansion into an island expo. I never liked that extreme short backdoor path between the two bases.
That's pretty much it. If you find something bad and evil, please tell me.
Cheers
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^ insane map imbalance? ...look at the gold expo....
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gold expo looks like a nat for one player
edit: if you look closely the lava goes all the way around... I like it
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I haven't played a single fun game on scrap station, so I made some changes to try to make the map more fun.
(2) Star Station
Pic with notes
+ Show Spoiler +
Regular pic
+ Show Spoiler +
I tried to allow more choice in taking expansions to give the map more variety. Also tried to improve map balance for protoss, terran, and zerg. I think this map offers greater rewards for map control, while at the same time making it easier to defend the natural and possibly a third expansion.
This is my first attempt with the map editor, so any suggestions would be appreciated.
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On June 13 2010 12:21 mlbrandow wrote:
gold expo looks like a nat for one player
edit: if you look closely the lava goes all the way around... I like it
:o
of course it's all around :|
uploaded a 2nd picture to make it a bit more clear.
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On June 08 2010 22:44 ymirheim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 14:12 Wihl wrote:
I am a bit confused about the "you may not change the terrain theme" rule. First of all, why? And also, would this mean that modifying the tileset to add say.. grass to incineration zone but keeping everything else in the tileset intact would be against the rules and get you disqualified?
The reason is mainly just that the contest is solely focused on how to best refine existing maps to make them better from a gameplay perspective, making changes to the tileset should not be necessary to accomplish this we felt and the rule is pretty much there to avoid getting a lot of "hey I made a lava version of Kulas Ravine" submissions. So you can only work with the textures that are in the tileset of the map already, but you may repaint with those textures all you like.
Damn... I totally misunderstood the meaning of the rule..
Been working on a GREAT fix for Desert Oasis.. But I changed the entire tileset to Bal'Shir. I took the rule to mean that you couldn't make individual changes to the textures in a tile set... it says you can't Add/Remove/Replace textures IN a tileset, not that you can't change the ENTIRE tileset.
Any leeway on this rule if the map terrain is modified? I understand your intent to disqualify just texture swaps ONLY, but part of my redesign of D.Oasis was to make it beautiful like an oasis =] Changed out doodads etc even..
Just wanted to ask before basically starting over or spending the time to undo all my work..
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On June 16 2010 03:31 driftme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2010 22:44 ymirheim wrote:On June 08 2010 14:12 Wihl wrote:
I am a bit confused about the "you may not change the terrain theme" rule. First of all, why? And also, would this mean that modifying the tileset to add say.. grass to incineration zone but keeping everything else in the tileset intact would be against the rules and get you disqualified?
The reason is mainly just that the contest is solely focused on how to best refine existing maps to make them better from a gameplay perspective, making changes to the tileset should not be necessary to accomplish this we felt and the rule is pretty much there to avoid getting a lot of "hey I made a lava version of Kulas Ravine" submissions. So you can only work with the textures that are in the tileset of the map already, but you may repaint with those textures all you like. Damn... I totally misunderstood the meaning of the rule.. Been working on a GREAT fix for Desert Oasis.. But I changed the entire tileset to Bal'Shir. I took the rule to mean that you couldn't make individual changes to the textures in a tile set... it says you can't Add/Remove/Replace textures IN a tileset, not that you can't change the ENTIRE tileset. Any leeway on this rule if the map terrain is modified? I understand your intent to disqualify just texture swaps ONLY, but part of my redesign of D.Oasis was to make it beautiful like an oasis =] Changed out doodads etc even.. Just wanted to ask before basically starting over or spending the time to undo all my work..
We're going to have a discussion on special considerations to this rule and get back on it asap. Using doodads from any of the map themes is fine btw.
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On June 16 2010 04:58 ymirheim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 03:31 driftme wrote:On June 08 2010 22:44 ymirheim wrote:On June 08 2010 14:12 Wihl wrote:
I am a bit confused about the "you may not change the terrain theme" rule. First of all, why? And also, would this mean that modifying the tileset to add say.. grass to incineration zone but keeping everything else in the tileset intact would be against the rules and get you disqualified?
The reason is mainly just that the contest is solely focused on how to best refine existing maps to make them better from a gameplay perspective, making changes to the tileset should not be necessary to accomplish this we felt and the rule is pretty much there to avoid getting a lot of "hey I made a lava version of Kulas Ravine" submissions. So you can only work with the textures that are in the tileset of the map already, but you may repaint with those textures all you like. Damn... I totally misunderstood the meaning of the rule.. Been working on a GREAT fix for Desert Oasis.. But I changed the entire tileset to Bal'Shir. I took the rule to mean that you couldn't make individual changes to the textures in a tile set... it says you can't Add/Remove/Replace textures IN a tileset, not that you can't change the ENTIRE tileset. Any leeway on this rule if the map terrain is modified? I understand your intent to disqualify just texture swaps ONLY, but part of my redesign of D.Oasis was to make it beautiful like an oasis =] Changed out doodads etc even.. Just wanted to ask before basically starting over or spending the time to undo all my work.. We're going to have a discussion on special considerations to this rule and get back on it asap. Using doodads from any of the map themes is fine btw.
Great to hear =] I think a lot can be said for a full overhaul of a map if it's done correctly.
I had a few reasons specifically relating to this map:
1. Didn't want it to look exactly the same - hopefully this will make people FEEL like its brand new!
2. Desert OASIS... why is it so dusty and barren?? Not right! =]
3. I like the jungle better.
If you guys decide to allow texture changes in maps that have otherwise undergone substantive changes, AWESOME.
If not, I'll live.. probably just save the D.Oasis remake the way it is and work on a different map to redesign.
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what ever happened to this contest? Did it die? I thought my DO remake was pretty good...
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No, its not dead, I am still getting submissions for maps and as announced nominee's will be picked and released for voting once the beta goes back up.
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Anyways, Here is my entry. Now zergs can actually deal with those dreaded Terran Drops.
(4) Reverse Lost Temple
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.mediafire.com/?g2d1yjmuz4m
edit- whoops, forgot 9's cliff - and there is some low ground start trigger I need to remove too. Wow, the whole map is unpathable/unbuildable besides the islands I didn't change. Wtf? How do I fix this. edit2- figured it out.
Also, added some unpathable cliffs around the mains to prevent blink stalkers without air units to see into the base. The problem with this fix is that also blocks collosus and reaper as well, and later when toss has air they can still blink in.
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On June 27 2010 12:27 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Also, Beta resumes July 1st. So that is the deadline for this contest.
Supposedly, I have yet to see a confirmation from blizzard on this.
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On June 28 2010 02:04 ymirheim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 12:27 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Also, Beta resumes July 1st. So that is the deadline for this contest.
Supposedly, I have yet to see a confirmation from blizzard on this.
I thought there was a blue post from bashiok telling PCbang company about it.
Anyways, I have another map for this:
(4)Neo Metalopolis
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/amGM9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/nZY2p.jpg)
Pink = removed statues added high ground block with LoSB on top.
Yellow = Moved XWTs out a little, made this area smaller.
Red = Removed ramps, added LoSBs
Blue = Opened up this space here more so it's more even on all bases.
DL:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mnmz3tyt3g2
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charlie: question... what is the purpose of the pink high ground blocks?
also... i must say I don't really like the los blocker by the high min.. it basically makes it so someone with a spotter (observer etc) can assault the high min from below, but the defender can't fight back unless they have their own air unit or something on the ground beyond the los blocker. looks to me like it gives a huge advantage to the attacker of the high min base, and would make it pointless to use the ramp if you have tanks or some other equally long range unit
EDIT: Oh, also.... I'll be submitting my DO remake today or tomorrow! =]
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On June 12 2010 04:50 sev1 wrote:Scrap Station 2.0Image + Show Spoiler +With notes + Show Spoiler +Did this in about an hour last night, so it's not entirely polished, but I thought it was worth posting. I decided to redo Scrap Station. I don't think it's a map that needs a lot of balancing, I just did it to see if I could change the playstyle of the map a bit, from 2-base oriented to 3 or 4 base macro (something that isn't seen too often on two player maps). The biggest changes happened to bottom bases, which I've seen used in ladder games... maybe two or three times. I connected the island bases to the mainland in three ways: a ramp from the metal plateaus by the natural, a sight-blocked chokepoint near the middle, and a more broad entrance from the bottom. It is rather easy to defend if you focus your entire army on the third, but I also wanted to make the blocked-off bridge more of a threat by adding a tower to its center. This gives the first army to advance across the bridge a significant advantage. The intent is to make map awareness and mobility more important. I also added small sight-blocked areas to the mains, I think they open up some interesting gameplay options (drops, proxies, hidden tech, etc).
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surprisingly I don't really have any thing to criticize about this map.
:D
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prodiG, that map looks slightly asymmetrical. Some gaps and walkways appear to be bigger than the opposite one. I have no real knowledge of the map editor so I don't know if it's possible, but if you just sliced the map in half, copied one side, rotated it, and replaced the other side, then it'd be golden.
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On June 29 2010 03:34 tfmdjeff wrote:
prodiG, that map looks slightly asymmetrical. Some gaps and walkways appear to be bigger than the opposite one. I have no real knowledge of the map editor so I don't know if it's possible, but if you just sliced the map in half, copied one side, rotated it, and replaced the other side, then it'd be golden.
That's exactly what I did. Metalopolis is not a symmetrical design, and if I wanted to make it perfectly symmetrical I'd have to start over from the ground up. I posted my thoughts on this on the second or third page I think.
At any rate, all of the ramps and everything are the same size and the distances are pretty much the same, so I think it's okay
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I made a remake of Blistering Sands im not sure if it will qualify for the contest tho, since I have moved the starting positions a bit.
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/blistering-sands-2-daedenremake/
Changes:
Modified Spawn locations and natural
Added back entrance to gold (to improve expanding path)
New Spawn Location
![[image loading]](http://static.sc2mapster.com/content/images/22/749/Terrain_053.jpg)
More images @ SC2 Mapster including Map Analyser images
Not huge remake in terms of textures but i think it will effect game play quite abit just wanted to make a Blistering sands with what i see as better start location for zerg to connect to natural
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OebQQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/khqdq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EbdXc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2412/4kulasravinenew3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7568/4kulasravineorig.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7626/kulas2.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5158/terrain005.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5010/terrain003.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/5686/terrain002.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1919/terrain001.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8859/4kulasravinenew.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8043/kulas.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Schmyesh/Neo-Kulas20.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Schmyesh/Neo-Kulas-notes.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad278/Zoltang85/DO20.png?t=1276204198)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UDRul.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FccSQ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9927/considerationzone2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3093/considerationzone.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/8470/incinerationzone.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.uploadgeek.com/image-CAAC_4C1499A2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.uploadgeek.com/image-44CD_4C1499DA.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/9YRHp.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/TsQta.jpg)
