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On June 05 2008 03:50 eazo wrote:
Personally, i loved chill and artosis' casting. They were very informative and knew the game inside and out. (however it of course wouldn't hurt to yell a little more)
I definently think that the foreign scene needed this. Many of the players who partook in the TSL were not widely known and went into this whole deal with only a hope and a fast reaction time. Many of them came out as superstars in the scene (JF, Brat, among some) and that is excellent for the scene and for other aspiring players.
tbh, team liquid attack was also a great stepping stone. every player that appeared on TLA, i cheered for in the TSL, because i knew who they were from their appearance on the show, and how good they were
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On June 05 2008 05:45 Dynamo wrote:
Am I alone in the opinion that I don't want the commentators to be like Tasteless if they aren't like that? I think the chill artosis combo is great - and I think they are both enthusiastic. They're not yelling or raising their voices.. but that doesnt mean there is no enthusiasm. Anything different would seem faked and annoying.
I agree it CAN seem to be fake, but then again, good narration does not allow this to get the viewer. I personally like Artosis and Chill as much as I do Tasteless, but I do think tasteless is more energetic sometimes (for me, this is good) and I would just like these two to work on this thats all. 
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Osaka27174 Posts
While I agree enthusiasm is good, I find the comparisons to Tasteless a bit off. Look at his situation. He has always casted in front of a live audience at a venue. He also casts to the general fan rather than the TL demographic. Lastly, he can watch the observer and not worry about moving around himself.
Doing that is a far cry from sitting by yourself in your room, moving the screen yourself, and monitoring IRC. I personally think Chill and Artosis did a great job, especially considering the audience. I think more enthusiasm could be injected, but you have to keep in mind the amount of practice they had and their setup.
Obviously we played around with the combinations a bit to find a good one. I dropped out early because, quite frankly, I could not do a good job at 4:30am. I'm not sure I would try and change the commentary next time around tbh.
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Really enjoyed the TSL, although my interest peaked in the beginning of the event (ladder, qualifying stages) and slowly decreased moving towards the end, im not quite sure what caused this, probably the whole feeling of "getting used to" TSL.
For the next TSL i would love to see more hype, writeups/reviews, artwork, miscellanious contests and so on. I really think this spices things up, although there was alot of that stuff for this TSL, i would say things were a bit inconsistent.
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Calgary26003 Posts
There's also the fact that I live with 2 other people. I felt like a big nerd the first cast yelling while they were home, but I got over it pretty quickly by the finals.
I know I have a lot to improve on. It's hard for me to get excited. Don't know why, it just always has been this way and probably always will. It's funny - I was getting pretty worried about it, because there was a lot of criticism about the lack of enthusiasm. So I would try my best to sound very excited. And I would remember a particular game like "Wow that was amazing, I was super excited when that happened." Then I would rewatch the TSL VODs and it sounds like I'm falling asleep.
Either way, it was a lot of fun.
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my biggest suggestion would be to include interviews with the losers, as well as try to incorporate more live interviews (analyzing the post-mortem).
the closer the audience feels to the player, the more involved they become in the league, the closer they follow it, the more likely they are to watch, etc.
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Yea interviews with the losers would be nice and seriously fuck the fake enthusiasm idea, it has to be natural. Tasteless is naturally enhusiastic and excited, same with his brother. Chill and Artosis have their own personality and they did a great job, no need for fake emotions.
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United States37500 Posts
On June 05 2008 06:30 Chill wrote:There's also the fact that I live with 2 other people. I felt like a big nerd the first cast yelling while they were home, but I got over it pretty quickly by the finals. I know I have a lot to improve on. It's hard for me to get excited. Don't know why, it just always has been this way and probably always will. It's funny - I was getting pretty worried about it, because there was a lot of criticism about the lack of enthusiasm. So I would try my best to sound very excited. And I would remember a particular game like "Wow that was amazing, I was super excited when that happened." Then I would rewatch the TSL VODs and it sounds like I'm falling asleep. Either way, it was a lot of fun.
ahaha, nerd~
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South Africa4316 Posts
I disagree with all the Tasteless comparisons here. What you guys are doing (in my opinion) is demanding a style of commentating you prefer, which is not necessarily preferred by everyone. I think Chill and Artosis got more than excited enough at the important times, while they kept the atmosphere interesting and tense when mad action wasn't happening. There's nothing I find more annoying than football commentators going "GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL", and I don't want Chill or Artosis doing that for SC either.
In the last games of the finals, I though Chill was going to have a heartattack, he was getting so excited. You could clearly hear how excited he was, yet he never shouted or said anything nonsensical, he kept on commentating. I'd really much rather listen to that than to Chill repeating something pointless for excitement.
Rather than lacking in enthusiasm, I think Chill/Artosis just have a different style of commentating, a style which I definitely prefer. If enough people want an exciting style commentator, we might need to look to incorporate someone with that exciting style, but if people like the style as it is then you'll just have to accept that it's not something "lacking" in the commentators, but it's rather a difference in preference. I prefer it this way, but we'll see what we can do.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
100% agreed with Daigomi.
I love the Artosis/Chill/(+Day) combination with a passion.
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I thought the commentating was great. My only suggestion would be to have a protoss player commentating during protoss games. The commentators a couple times seemed to lack knowledge of protoss game play. The two instances I can specifically remember are: Dreiven vs Mondi when they werent really sure what Dreiven would get when they saw him go 1gate tech. This is something a protoss player would of defiantely knew, but seeing as how they play zerg and terran(I think?) they were not to sure. The other was in the finals, I specifically remember the quote "I dont know much about high level pvp". I think it was Artosis who said that but I may be wrong. These are minor issues, but I think they are something to consider for next time.
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Calgary26003 Posts
No that was me.
And god dammit DT opening is viable. ig9iaj9-4gkogpkgl
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I really liked it the way it was, I thought artosis/chill got just enough "excited" and did a completely perfect job. I just don't get why you would want people yelling the hell out of your ears, but that's more of a personal preference I guess. I actually preferred artosis/chill to when day was in, because I wouldn't get a heart attack during the casts ^^
edit: err. what daigomi said 
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i wish the games were live, atleast the finals like in team liquid attack. maybe just put a delay on it or put some other precaution to prevent cheating
is that being considered or figured out for future TSL?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 05 2008 12:40 lejason wrote:
i wish the games were live, atleast the finals like in team liquid attack. maybe just put a delay on it or put some other precaution to prevent cheating
is that being considered or figured out for future TSL? If you can offer some tangible advantages over...
- Significantly reduced instances of lag
- Ability to see what each player is building without fancy technology
- Uninterrupted games one after the other
- No risk of cheating by watching the stream
The replay virtually worked as a live game with no noticeable differences
so yea im eager to hear your advantages
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On June 05 2008 05:45 Dynamo wrote:
Am I alone in the opinion that I don't want the commentators to be like Tasteless if they aren't like that? I think the chill artosis combo is great - and I think they are both enthusiastic. They're not yelling or raising their voices.. but that doesnt mean there is no enthusiasm. Anything different would seem faked and annoying.
Please don't take my last post the wrong way-I really did like all the commentators. For me personally, I was extremely hyped during the games. One reason I think the more 'yelling' would benefit the whole is for people who aren't as die-hard sc fans or don't know the strategy as well as a lot of the people watching. One of my goals is to get people who aren't into e-sports per se to be able to watch a game and enjoy it, even if they haven't played much sc at all. So yeah, 'fake' enthusiasm I agree is not good, but maybe having a great analyst like Art or Chill commentate with a 'hype guy' would be something to consider.
Chill, I think you should make it your goal to get your roommates into TSL
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i really don't care about live or not, so long as no one knows the out come. One of the casters mentioned that they knew the match length at one point and that kinda killed feeling for me, if they know the game ends in 30 seconds then their analysis is going to be effected, it'd be good if they can't see it either.
it might be nice to include the Chinese, but they might dominate, i don't know and lag issues etc.
i agree with daigomi about the casters, i want analysis not to hear how amazed they are. Also some games aren't that exciting and i wouldn't want them to get hyped about a bad game. I think if you watch enough that you can say that some games are bad, it shows a maturity and understanding that i respect more (in a sound bite: praise from a harsh critic means it's really praiseworthy).
Oh and i'd like to have a different team of post match analysis from the in game casters, they get the time to say what they think in the game so don't have too much to add before and after. A between game panel gives the option for guest comments without disrupting the setup and a wider set of opinions. Also listening to the same voice for 5 hours grates even if it is the sweetest voice in the world and i'm sure they wouldn't mind a few moments off to stretch or something.
i had a lot of problems with the stream lagging, in the finals i couldn't watch for more than a minute without it freezing and reloading, i guess that's a problem at my end but maybe not.
Aesthetically i prefer my tournaments to start with a group stage instead of a single elim, instant knockout is too random and it looks like you're in a hurry to get rid of players and provide tension, rather than determine who is best. I know the ladder and all the qualifying stages do this but _the_ TSL doesn't, I'd like you to start calling it the TSL and broadcasting at the round of 32. You could still do it over a weekend or 2 by not showing all the games, say pick the best 4 groups then show all 5 matches from that group, and release the others as VODs with maybe a different set of casters (just so they dont get board casting upto 120 games in the first round).
But yeah i loved the TSL, of course the play isn't on the same level as the top pros but the players have a more distinct personalities, at least to me not knowing any korean, so i can follow it easier. The art team and interviews really made a huge difference.
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yeah if the lag issues could be sorted out, including china would be cool.
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On June 05 2008 12:51 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2008 12:40 lejason wrote:
i wish the games were live, atleast the finals like in team liquid attack. maybe just put a delay on it or put some other precaution to prevent cheating
is that being considered or figured out for future TSL? If you can offer some tangible advantages over... - Significantly reduced instances of lag
- Ability to see what each player is building without fancy technology
- Uninterrupted games one after the other
- No risk of cheating by watching the stream
The replay virtually worked as a live game with no noticeable differences so yea im eager to hear your advantages
heh i just asked if it was being considered no need for sarcasm. my view is i'd be nice to have it live cause you know its happening then and there. it would be nice to have it live for the same reason why anything live is exciting, like the koreans, or like your watching the superbowl with your buddies knowing the action is happening right then and there. those other features are nice too, but when i'm watching the games i'd rather look at what's happening on the screen and listening to the great commentators then worrying or caring about the amount of minerals that the players have, and i'm sure the casual watchers don't care much for that either. i'd sacrifice all those features and replace them with live anyday. even just seeing the gg pop up on the screen is cool. if its not possible then w/e, it's obv still a great event.
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I would have to agree with the original poster on this. I found the first few commentaries rather dull, although the games were exciting. Although even by the semi-final matches I noticed a improvement which seems very promising for TSL2.
Regarding the commentary enthusiasm and flare, I think is what was missing. Have some fun with it and relax more.
Best of luck with the next TSL
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