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Osaka27168 Posts
On February 02 2009 13:14 MrHoon wrote:
bis and flash, it was a 2-1 not a 3-1 Fakesteve
Because this is a mistake I will point this comment in the direction of fakesteve.
Please leave all praise and tribute addressed to Manifesto7.
Thank you.
On February 02 2009 13:17 OneOther wrote:
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues. Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
I'm sorry which individual leagues has Jangbi won? I don't think he has pulled through any more than Sea.
I fail to see how you can compare Jangbi with either Bisu or Jaedong. When Jangbi has a sack of badges, then I will cut him some more slack. Until then, when Jangbi loses, it's no big deal. When Bisu and Jaedong lose, it still is. Besides, when Jangbi loses he often looks terrible.
People need to get the word "unique" out of their craw. It was simply a stylistic turn of phrase. Plenty of players are capable of winning well and losing well *cough* Sea *cough*
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Imo boring PR. Agreeing with everyone and not creating a torrent of hatred 800 comments long is just sad.
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lol fun read. Only part I disagree with is Leta because: I haven't watched a single game of his; you're using Guemchi, who I only know as a rookie to watch out for with a shitty overall record, as the best example to justify his #1.
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9/10 because you put fbh in your proleague team lol
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United States12398 Posts
On February 02 2009 13:33 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:25 Sentenal wrote:On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote:
i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday. I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic. yo. when someone has the hubris to select an all z pool for himself and promptly gets raped by it, there should be a discernible effect in the powerrank. his 6-0 is nice but it's hard for me to give anyone credit for those games, just because of the circumstances surrounding. one has to wonder if kespa is even gonna give ELO credit for those games; maybe the last 4, but i don't think he'll get it for the nontelevised first round.
No discernible effect in the Powerrank? lol
I got some reading material for you. Go read "Power Rank as of 01/16/2009" by Fakesteve. I mean, I think that dropping from #1 to #5 is a discernible effect in the Powerrank, but apparently when something like that happens to Bisu, it should be a permanent black-mark in his history to prevent him from being recognized as top 3 ever again.
He got knocked out of the OSL a while ago, and got lucky that Backho had to pull out. Okay, but the fact that he got "lucky" is completely irrelevant. Fact of the matter is, the Wildcard tournament happened, he bulldozed his way through every single opponent he faced. 6 wins and no losses in the same night is a huge feat, especially with competition like Sea, Mind, Much, and Light.
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CA10829 Posts
On February 02 2009 13:48 xxsaznpride wrote:
Imo boring PR. Agreeing with everyone and not creating a torrent of hatred 800 comments long is just sad.
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lol fun read. Only part I disagree with is Leta because: I haven't watched a single game of his; you're using Guemchi, who I only know as a rookie to watch out for with a shitty overall record, as the best example to justify his #1.
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9/10 because you put fbh in your proleague team lol
i'm glad you realize that you are completely unqualified to make any statement about leta, but then proceed to say he doesn't deserve his PR spot.
awesome.
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United States12607 Posts
Mani, I think your PR judgment is excellent  , I wouldn't change much (besides perhaps BeSt instead of Stork at 10). I'm sure Jaewook will return to his regular spot in the PR once he starts to destroy people in this OSL.
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On February 02 2009 13:25 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote:
i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday. I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic.
Maps work both ways (Medusa).
Last night Bisu vs Hyvaa, bisu was seriously behind after the attack on the nat since hyvaa adjusted his 3 hatch timing to counter the 2archon push, however, he made many mistakes to give away the game (not saying that Bisu played badly).
1) He neglected to burrow three lurkers during the attack on his nat and
2) he let 10 hydras get stormed, literally, they stood under the storm the entire time, allowing Bisu to take down his third before his zealots finished it off.
Obviously, it's more that zergs have figured out the appropriate counters on the right maps but since we'll be playing on the same maps, Bisu will continue to have trouble with his PvZ against competent zergs. (his OSL group).
His other MUs are invincible, but his PvZ will remain inconsistent during this phase of the metagame until he changes his playstyle or go back to heavy reaver/sair style. My opinion of course.
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I like Mani's PR better than Fakesteve's.
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I want to give an example of a situation that might clarify things for a lot of posters on here.
A completely brand new player comes into the Starcraft scene. He has never played a professional game and has no history to speak of. Now he plays in an exclusive invite only tournament with Jaedong in a best of 3. He loses all 3 games, all being insanely epic 30+ minute battles where Jaedong edges him out in a nail biter. Now his record is 0-3 and from a stats standpoint would be on the lowest levels possible. But we can make some predictions about his play, and not just that, we would more than likely vote for him if he were to face any other zerg. I am just showing through an extreme example that its possible to be considered on the PR simply on "playing strength" and not statistics alone.
For anyone doubting Leta, I think his dominance is what grants him the number 1 spot. Its the quality of his decisions, the acuteness of his reaction and the crispness of his logic. Build orders can succumb to the rock-paper-scissor consequence of any game with unknown variables. One misstep that is largely uncontrollable can make or break a single game, but the pure essence of a players ability is staring you in the face whenever you watch a VOD of professional starcraft.
For what its worth I think this is one of the best PR's I've read. Keep up the good work.
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United States10774 Posts
On February 02 2009 13:42 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:14 MrHoon wrote:
bis and flash, it was a 2-1 not a 3-1 Fakesteve Because this is a mistake I will point this comment in the direction of fakesteve. Please leave all praise and tribute addressed to Manifesto7. Thank you. Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:17 OneOther wrote:
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues. Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality. I'm sorry which individual leagues has Jangbi won? I don't think he has pulled through any more than Sea. I fail to see how you can compare Jangbi with either Bisu or Jaedong. When Jangbi has a sack of badges, then I will cut him some more slack. Until then, when Jangbi loses, it's no big deal. When Bisu and Jaedong lose, it still is. Besides, when Jangbi loses he often looks terrible. People need to get the word "unique" out of their craw. It was simply a stylistic turn of phrase. Plenty of players are capable of winning well and losing well *cough* Sea *cough*
What do you mean? Winning an individual league is not the only way to prove that you are a consistent player. Come on, you can't be serious comparing Jangbi and Sea. Jangbi has been to a semifinal and two finals if you count Gom Star Invitational. Sea? He has never been past the Round of 16. Those two don't compare in terms of consistency and performance in individual leagues. Your point that Jangbi looks terrible when he loses is so subjective that it's hard to argue against, but I disagree with that. Bisu and Jaedong look equally awful to me when they lose, especially against players they are expected to pull through against. (I guess it makes sense to give the champions some slack, though.)
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On February 02 2009 13:42 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:14 MrHoon wrote:
bis and flash, it was a 2-1 not a 3-1 Fakesteve Because this is a mistake I will point this comment in the direction of fakesteve. Please leave all praise and tribute addressed to Manifesto7. Thank you. Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:17 OneOther wrote:
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues. Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality. I'm sorry which individual leagues has Jangbi won? I don't think he has pulled through any more than Sea.I fail to see how you can compare Jangbi with either Bisu or Jaedong. When Jangbi has a sack of badges, then I will cut him some more slack. Until then, when Jangbi loses, it's no big deal. When Bisu and Jaedong lose, it still is. Besides, when Jangbi loses he often looks terrible. People need to get the word "unique" out of their craw. It was simply a stylistic turn of phrase. Plenty of players are capable of winning well and losing well *cough* Sea *cough*
I'm sorry. While I agree that Jangbi shouldn't be given the slack afforded to a Bisu or a Jaedong, comparing him to Sea is just plain wrong. That's just plain hating there.  P
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do i smell another bisu bashing here?? 
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So many zergs! I like this PR, will be interesting to see what happens the rest of this month with these players.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1213 Posts
On February 02 2009 13:29 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 13:22 Jyvblamo wrote:On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote:
i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense Um, strictly speaking, Bisu is 2-1 since the last PR, and we would normally only look at games played in the interval between PRs. His losses vs zergs in the individual leagues were accounted for in the previous PR accordingly. fakesteve makes it clear that the last msl results were not accounted for in the power rank. so, strictly on what fakesteve said, the msl failures have not been accounted for. and even if the OSL results are accounted for, the fact he got disqualed from both leagues in the Ro32+ for each is really bad. his OSL Wildcard achievement is nice, but those games never should have happened. bisu took advantage of his luck; good for him, but that shouldnt be a #2 player.
From last PR
What the hell, Bisu?
This should be obvious, with four wins necessary to advance in both leagues, Bisu managed to create four losses instead. Yes, Bisu is out of OSL and MSL. Seriously. Against ZERGS. And he PLAYED BAD!
Yes, fakesteve CLEARLY did not factor in MSL results into the PR......
In addition to OSL failure, Bisu must have mysteriously dropped 4 spots due to his total 'FAIL' at GOM.......
In addition, even if he weren't second spot material, we'd still need actual players to put above him, we can't arbitrarily drop people down to a spot without finding someone who did better.
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Osaka27168 Posts
Good thing he didn't write this one eh? That way we can ignore your argument altogether!
And the argument doesn't matter anyway. I consulted with Lord Vader himself and he agreed with me.
Do you honestly think anyone other than Leta is scarier than Bisu right now? If so, who?
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Wow,this PR is a great surprise,even in my dreams I didn't see it coming so early. But wow! Great job Mani! Your style is refreshing,because FS started to get boring. He didn't have those great writeups anymore,like the ones he used to have. but this PR is great. I loled at nearly every description. I don't know about Leta,perhaps I wouldn't put him on no1 yet,but the kid seems to be really unbeatable. I don't think July deserves a spot either,perhaps he deserved last month,but he didn't do anything specific,and his winning streak came to a hault by the hands of Hiya. I like the fact that there are so many zergs on the list,and I hope they will win a SL this season,and I also like Anytime being on the list. I still think Best should be there tho.
Oh,and are you doing all the PR's from now on? Cuz' that would be awesome!
EDIT: Nvm my nitpicking,I didn't read the explanation. Now it makes perfect sense and I wouldn't like to fuck with Lord Vader.
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Check it out guys i can bold random words aswell
Mani flash is still equal best terran with leta, leta would take no.1 but he hasent gotten far in any individual leauges, yet
much love MaNi good power rank
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On February 02 2009 15:00 Scaramanga wrote:
Check it out guys i can bold random words aswell
Mani flash is still equal best terran with leta, leta would take no.1 but he hasent gotten far in any individual leauges, yet
much love MaNi good power rank
This is a poll of who the scariest motherfuckers in pro gaming are not who has had the most glory ^_^.
ps- Great PR Mani besides the lack of Free i wouldn't change a thing.
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On February 02 2009 14:37 Manifesto7 wrote:
Do you honestly think anyone other than Leta is scarier than Bisu right now? If so, who?
I think Jaedong is scarier than Bisu, but that's 2 and 3 so it's not like there's a whole lot of difference.
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On February 02 2009 15:21 Jaksiel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 14:37 Manifesto7 wrote:
Do you honestly think anyone other than Leta is scarier than Bisu right now? If so, who? I think Jaedong is scarier than Bisu, but that's 2 and 3 so it's not like there's a whole lot of difference.
That's what I thought too, but I haven't been watching games so I can't back it up. Jaedong seems to have Bisu's number and if they played I think Jaedong would come out on top.
However, right now, I would rather play Jaedong than Bisu for my soul, even if only slightly. And that's how this PR is judged.
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Hiya's all kill should give him potential for CBNC in the future
Although I side with the majority when they say Jangbi is not S class player, its plain wrong to compare him to Sea. Sea is a lot worse of a player than Jangbi, the only thing holding Sea is his incredible TvZ skills and he sucks at other matchups
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EPT
