BackHo: While I realize that Steve might fly to my house and beat me with a hose for this, I have to give the man some love. If it were not for his injury, he might be in two of the three major leagues right now. As it worked out, he sacrificed himself for Bisu, making Emlary extremely happy.
Besides, giving him a CBNC is like giving the last place kid a "participation" ribbon. It doesn't mean shit.
Best: Win your OSL games and I will bring you back. Best is a purely win/loss kind of player. He doesn't play with any style or grace to cause fear, he just bludgeons people to death. There is a reason why fencing is an Olympic sport and caveman skull bashing isn't. That being said, if all the cavemen kill the fencers, then you have to show respect to the form.
FBH: Dude what happened? You got on my Fantasy team and then shit the bed. Your recently games look like suck. Please stop, if only for the sake of my Fantasy PL sig bet.
Hwasin: Yep, you are in both leagues, and should you perform well you will be back in the rankings next month. Best of luck.
I like prefer your writing style over FakeSteve's (dont kill me FakeSteve).
hah i almost died laughing at this *Best: Win your OSL games and I will bring you back. Best is a purely win/loss kind of player. He doesn't play with any style or grace to cause fear, he just bludgeons people to death. There is a reason why fencing is an Olympic sport and caveman skull bashing isn't. That being said, if all the cavemen kill the fencers, then you have to show respect to the form.*
4 Zergs in and FBH out of the Top 10. I like this power rank.
"Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well."
I'm not sure it's that unique...I feel like this applies to Zero right now as well. I still have faith he'll pull it all together some day. Maybe a deep MSL run.
On February 02 2009 10:20 Manifesto7 wrote: Close But No Cigar.
Best: Win your OSL games and I will bring you back. Best is a purely win/loss kind of player. He doesn't play with any style or grace to cause fear, he just bludgeons people to death. There is a reason why fencing is an Olympic sport and caveman skull bashing isn't. That being said, if all the cavemen kill the fencers, then you have to show respect to the form.
Thank you for this comment about Best. I really don't like watching his games because as you said, it's just about winning through pure power. Yet there are so many Best fans on the board that I thought perhaps I was crazy or something.
Anyway, good PR. Don't really have much to say about it, although I really believe(or just hope?) that Stork will come through in the OSL and MSL. When thoroughly prepared, I truly believe Stork is the best player in the game. But the winners league really disagrees with him, because he has trouble adjusting on the fly it seems(although is game against Reach is fairly inexcusable).
Nothing to do with this power rank, but rather a suggestion for the format: Instead of having a column devoted to "highest" Power Rank achieved, perhaps we should change it to 'average Power Rank rank', which would be more indicative of their past strength.
On February 02 2009 10:35 Jaksiel wrote: 4 Zergs in and FBH out of the Top 10. I like this power rank.
"Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well."
I'm not sure it's that unique...I feel like this applies to Zero right now as well. I still have faith he'll pull it all together some day. Maybe a deep MSL run.
1) die. FBH will win a starleague someday.
2) to agree with the 2nd point and more, like 10 starleague caliber players hold this quality. I don't know if it's B-class shaking the nerves and owning a bitch, or these guys just failing hard on occasion. But I think this quality really limits their candidacy for titles.
Manifesto7 wrote: Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
That's not a unique ability. Think of the reverse statement: Backho has the unique ability to not only lose to anyone in the world, but to beat anyone as well. Okay, maybe had the ability, but whatever. Also, I'm not sure about dropping Jangbi 3 spots, but I think I only watched the games where he was dominating.
Manifesto7 wrote: Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
That's not a unique ability. Think of the reverse statement: Backho has the unique ability to not only lose to anyone in the world, but to beat anyone as well. Okay, maybe had the ability, but whatever. Also, I'm not sure about dropping Jangbi 3 spots, but I think I only watched the games where he was dominating.
Nope, it is unique, because while I could never beat BackHo, I have no doubt that Jangbi could drop a game to me because he is too busy getting his hair right in the mirror.
But anyway, I see your point. It was written that way more for style than to be taken as a universal truth.
I have issues with Luxury being so high, mostly because of how his games unfolded. Yes the man boasts impressive results, but the games themselves were not champion material games - they were mostly cheeses, all-ins and build order wins (see his OSL games, and vs Stork in PL and so on) while his losses have been abysmal.
your description of jangbi reminds me of mind during flash's reign. he has the skill to take down the top players, but he's not consistent enough to be the top player. i'm not sure i'd have july as high as he is, but i can't think of a better player to replace him.
On February 02 2009 11:31 Hazz wrote: we really need a new leta head pic :\
Leta looks more badass with short hair.
Excellent Power Rank Mani. Nice to see ZERGS on there. And Anytime on the power rank as well is fucking awesome. He had Jaedong and Forgg when he was on Lecaf really, same applies to JD and Forgg I guess.
On February 02 2009 12:14 AzureEye wrote: Great Write up
I agree with your top 3. Jangbi should be a little bit lower imo and Flash is still very solid in his games. So I would switch Flash with Jangbi
I wouldn't. Flash hasnt played enough games against the best recently, and Jangbi just made the finals of a league.
Well losing against Bisu isn't that bad since its Bisu, and Jangbi got a free ticket out of semifinals. Backho's PvP is nothing to scoff at even though he sucks at other MUs. He had the potential to beat Jangbi but we will never find out
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
I mostly agree with the PR but I feel That it should be lux jangbi flash. Honestly, Flash has done next to nothing the past month while lux got the first all kill and then made it into both leagues. His loss vs Leta was more Leta being a genius than lux failing IMO. But overall, a great PR and onecthats actually on time!
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
So we should judge how high someone is on the power rank purely by how they perform against one of 3 races?
Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues.Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
As for Stork being at the bottom, eh, I guess I can't argue much about it because he went on that losing streak in Proleague. But him handling forGG/go.go to easily advance from the group, then beating NaDa on infamous Rush Hour III and then taking down Mind shows he's still the greatest PvTer in the world. Hopefully it's also a sign that he's back to his normal form.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this Power Rank, particularly your writing style. Thanks Mani!
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
So we should judge how high someone is on the power rank purely by how they perform against one of 3 races?
yeah, if that one race leads to your disqualification from two out of the three individual leagues.
the number 2 TL player for the month of january shouldnt be someone disqualified from both OSL and MSL within a week.
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Um, strictly speaking, Bisu is 2-1 since the last PR, and we would normally only look at games played in the interval between PRs. His losses vs zergs in the individual leagues were accounted for in the previous PR accordingly.
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday.
I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic.
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Um, strictly speaking, Bisu is 2-1 since the last PR, and we would normally only look at games played in the interval between PRs. His losses vs zergs in the individual leagues were accounted for in the previous PR accordingly.
fakesteve makes it clear that the last msl results were not accounted for in the power rank. so, strictly on what fakesteve said, the msl failures have not been accounted for.
and even if the OSL results are accounted for, the fact he got disqualed from both leagues in the Ro32+ for each is really bad. his OSL Wildcard achievement is nice, but those games never should have happened. bisu took advantage of his luck; good for him, but that shouldnt be a #2 player.
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday.
I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic.
yo. when someone has the hubris to select an all z pool for himself and promptly gets raped by it, there should be a discernible effect in the powerrank.
his 6-0 is nice but it's hard for me to give anyone credit for those games, just because of the circumstances surrounding. one has to wonder if kespa is even gonna give ELO credit for those games; maybe the last 4, but i don't think he'll get it for the nontelevised first round.
On February 02 2009 13:14 MrHoon wrote: bis and flash, it was a 2-1 not a 3-1 Fakesteve
Because this is a mistake I will point this comment in the direction of fakesteve.
Please leave all praise and tribute addressed to Manifesto7.
Thank you.
On February 02 2009 13:17 OneOther wrote: I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues. Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
I'm sorry which individual leagues has Jangbi won? I don't think he has pulled through any more than Sea.
I fail to see how you can compare Jangbi with either Bisu or Jaedong. When Jangbi has a sack of badges, then I will cut him some more slack. Until then, when Jangbi loses, it's no big deal. When Bisu and Jaedong lose, it still is. Besides, when Jangbi loses he often looks terrible.
People need to get the word "unique" out of their craw. It was simply a stylistic turn of phrase. Plenty of players are capable of winning well and losing well *cough* Sea *cough*
Imo boring PR. Agreeing with everyone and not creating a torrent of hatred 800 comments long is just sad.
==
lol fun read. Only part I disagree with is Leta because: I haven't watched a single game of his; you're using Guemchi, who I only know as a rookie to watch out for with a shitty overall record, as the best example to justify his #1.
==
9/10 because you put fbh in your proleague team lol
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday.
I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic.
yo. when someone has the hubris to select an all z pool for himself and promptly gets raped by it, there should be a discernible effect in the powerrank.
his 6-0 is nice but it's hard for me to give anyone credit for those games, just because of the circumstances surrounding. one has to wonder if kespa is even gonna give ELO credit for those games; maybe the last 4, but i don't think he'll get it for the nontelevised first round.
No discernible effect in the Powerrank? lol
I got some reading material for you. Go read "Power Rank as of 01/16/2009" by Fakesteve. I mean, I think that dropping from #1 to #5 is a discernible effect in the Powerrank, but apparently when something like that happens to Bisu, it should be a permanent black-mark in his history to prevent him from being recognized as top 3 ever again.
He got knocked out of the OSL a while ago, and got lucky that Backho had to pull out. Okay, but the fact that he got "lucky" is completely irrelevant. Fact of the matter is, the Wildcard tournament happened, he bulldozed his way through every single opponent he faced. 6 wins and no losses in the same night is a huge feat, especially with competition like Sea, Mind, Much, and Light.
On February 02 2009 13:48 xxsaznpride wrote: Imo boring PR. Agreeing with everyone and not creating a torrent of hatred 800 comments long is just sad.
==
lol fun read. Only part I disagree with is Leta because: I haven't watched a single game of his; you're using Guemchi, who I only know as a rookie to watch out for with a shitty overall record, as the best example to justify his #1.
==
9/10 because you put fbh in your proleague team lol
i'm glad you realize that you are completely unqualified to make any statement about leta, but then proceed to say he doesn't deserve his PR spot.
Mani, I think your PR judgment is excellent , I wouldn't change much (besides perhaps BeSt instead of Stork at 10). I'm sure Jaewook will return to his regular spot in the PR once he starts to destroy people in this OSL.
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday.
I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic.
Maps work both ways (Medusa). Last night Bisu vs Hyvaa, bisu was seriously behind after the attack on the nat since hyvaa adjusted his 3 hatch timing to counter the 2archon push, however, he made many mistakes to give away the game (not saying that Bisu played badly). 1) He neglected to burrow three lurkers during the attack on his nat and 2) he let 10 hydras get stormed, literally, they stood under the storm the entire time, allowing Bisu to take down his third before his zealots finished it off. Obviously, it's more that zergs have figured out the appropriate counters on the right maps but since we'll be playing on the same maps, Bisu will continue to have trouble with his PvZ against competent zergs. (his OSL group).
His other MUs are invincible, but his PvZ will remain inconsistent during this phase of the metagame until he changes his playstyle or go back to heavy reaver/sair style. My opinion of course.
I want to give an example of a situation that might clarify things for a lot of posters on here.
A completely brand new player comes into the Starcraft scene. He has never played a professional game and has no history to speak of. Now he plays in an exclusive invite only tournament with Jaedong in a best of 3. He loses all 3 games, all being insanely epic 30+ minute battles where Jaedong edges him out in a nail biter. Now his record is 0-3 and from a stats standpoint would be on the lowest levels possible. But we can make some predictions about his play, and not just that, we would more than likely vote for him if he were to face any other zerg. I am just showing through an extreme example that its possible to be considered on the PR simply on "playing strength" and not statistics alone.
For anyone doubting Leta, I think his dominance is what grants him the number 1 spot. Its the quality of his decisions, the acuteness of his reaction and the crispness of his logic. Build orders can succumb to the rock-paper-scissor consequence of any game with unknown variables. One misstep that is largely uncontrollable can make or break a single game, but the pure essence of a players ability is staring you in the face whenever you watch a VOD of professional starcraft.
For what its worth I think this is one of the best PR's I've read. Keep up the good work.
On February 02 2009 13:17 OneOther wrote: I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues. Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
I'm sorry which individual leagues has Jangbi won? I don't think he has pulled through any more than Sea.
I fail to see how you can compare Jangbi with either Bisu or Jaedong. When Jangbi has a sack of badges, then I will cut him some more slack. Until then, when Jangbi loses, it's no big deal. When Bisu and Jaedong lose, it still is. Besides, when Jangbi loses he often looks terrible.
People need to get the word "unique" out of their craw. It was simply a stylistic turn of phrase. Plenty of players are capable of winning well and losing well *cough* Sea *cough*
What do you mean? Winning an individual league is not the only way to prove that you are a consistent player. Come on, you can't be serious comparing Jangbi and Sea. Jangbi has been to a semifinal and two finals if you count Gom Star Invitational. Sea? He has never been past the Round of 16. Those two don't compare in terms of consistency and performance in individual leagues. Your point that Jangbi looks terrible when he loses is so subjective that it's hard to argue against, but I disagree with that. Bisu and Jaedong look equally awful to me when they lose, especially against players they are expected to pull through against. (I guess it makes sense to give the champions some slack, though.)
On February 02 2009 13:17 OneOther wrote: I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues. Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
I'm sorry which individual leagues has Jangbi won? I don't think he has pulled through any more than Sea.
I fail to see how you can compare Jangbi with either Bisu or Jaedong. When Jangbi has a sack of badges, then I will cut him some more slack. Until then, when Jangbi loses, it's no big deal. When Bisu and Jaedong lose, it still is. Besides, when Jangbi loses he often looks terrible.
People need to get the word "unique" out of their craw. It was simply a stylistic turn of phrase. Plenty of players are capable of winning well and losing well *cough* Sea *cough*
I'm sorry. While I agree that Jangbi shouldn't be given the slack afforded to a Bisu or a Jaedong, comparing him to Sea is just plain wrong. That's just plain hating there. P
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Um, strictly speaking, Bisu is 2-1 since the last PR, and we would normally only look at games played in the interval between PRs. His losses vs zergs in the individual leagues were accounted for in the previous PR accordingly.
fakesteve makes it clear that the last msl results were not accounted for in the power rank. so, strictly on what fakesteve said, the msl failures have not been accounted for.
and even if the OSL results are accounted for, the fact he got disqualed from both leagues in the Ro32+ for each is really bad. his OSL Wildcard achievement is nice, but those games never should have happened. bisu took advantage of his luck; good for him, but that shouldnt be a #2 player.
From last PR
What the hell, Bisu?
This should be obvious, with four wins necessary to advance in both leagues, Bisu managed to create four losses instead. Yes, Bisu is out of OSL and MSL. Seriously. Against ZERGS. And he PLAYED BAD!
Yes, fakesteve CLEARLY did not factor in MSL results into the PR...... In addition to OSL failure, Bisu must have mysteriously dropped 4 spots due to his total 'FAIL' at GOM.......
In addition, even if he weren't second spot material, we'd still need actual players to put above him, we can't arbitrarily drop people down to a spot without finding someone who did better.
Wow,this PR is a great surprise,even in my dreams I didn't see it coming so early. But wow! Great job Mani! Your style is refreshing,because FS started to get boring. He didn't have those great writeups anymore,like the ones he used to have. but this PR is great. I loled at nearly every description. I don't know about Leta,perhaps I wouldn't put him on no1 yet,but the kid seems to be really unbeatable. I don't think July deserves a spot either,perhaps he deserved last month,but he didn't do anything specific,and his winning streak came to a hault by the hands of Hiya. I like the fact that there are so many zergs on the list,and I hope they will win a SL this season,and I also like Anytime being on the list. I still think Best should be there tho. Oh,and are you doing all the PR's from now on? Cuz' that would be awesome! EDIT: Nvm my nitpicking,I didn't read the explanation. Now it makes perfect sense and I wouldn't like to fuck with Lord Vader.
Check it out guys i can bold random words aswell Mani flash is still equal bestterran with leta, leta would take no.1 but he hasent gottenfar in any individual leauges, yet much loveMaNi good power rank
On February 02 2009 15:00 Scaramanga wrote: Check it out guys i can bold random words aswell Mani flash is still equal bestterran with leta, leta would take no.1 but he hasent gottenfar in any individual leauges, yet much loveMaNi good power rank
This is a poll of who the scariest motherfuckers in pro gaming are not who has had the most glory ^_^.
ps- Great PR Mani besides the lack of Free i wouldn't change a thing.
On February 02 2009 14:37 Manifesto7 wrote: Do you honestly think anyone other than Leta is scarier than Bisu right now? If so, who?
I think Jaedong is scarier than Bisu, but that's 2 and 3 so it's not like there's a whole lot of difference.
That's what I thought too, but I haven't been watching games so I can't back it up. Jaedong seems to have Bisu's number and if they played I think Jaedong would come out on top.
However, right now, I would rather play Jaedong than Bisu for my soul, even if only slightly. And that's how this PR is judged.
Hiya's all kill should give him potential for CBNC in the future
Although I side with the majority when they say Jangbi is not S class player, its plain wrong to compare him to Sea. Sea is a lot worse of a player than Jangbi, the only thing holding Sea is his incredible TvZ skills and he sucks at other matchups
well fakesteve did say something along those lines when the power rank first came out. that conversation no longer appears to be there... maybe i misread.
and for both you miserable little people: whether a power rank covers two weeks or two months, past performances still maintain an effect. like when Manifesto brings up the stat about Leta in the power rank. and when i'm asking for a "discernible effect", well that's a subjective term, right? You might interpret it as "how much a player dropped". for me, it's "how long did that drop last". For me, a two week drop to number 5 and then an instarise to number 2 is not enough.
and that's just me. much of my judgement depends on my not acknowleding the OSL Wildcard results. Those games shouldn't have happened, and winning against a bunch of second rate baddies while avoiding zergs (yeah, mind is second rate) doesn't mean much to me. neither does his recent PL wins against hyvaa and magma. there's a reason hyvaa doesnt get credit for queens even though he tried using them before jaedong: he sucks.
bisu's failures in pvz in the month of january have got to be acknowledged for more than two weeks. #2 is too high imo
I think his fall to 5 last month was more questionable. He should have been at least no3 back than. And Bisu has fallen 4 spots in one day,which is more than rising three in two weeks. Consider that this is the spot Bisu should have been last month.
Thanks Mani for getting the PR on time. Sorry Fakesteve but I would love to see Mani do the PR. This with no question the best power rank yet, I looked at the result of the PR and I was like wtf what is the writer smoking, and then I read the beautiful write up and was convinced of everything single thing in it. Sexy PR. Good Job Mani.
On February 02 2009 14:13 yunicyarblejellythou wrote: I want to give an example of a situation that might clarify things for a lot of posters on here.
A completely brand new player comes into the Starcraft scene. He has never played a professional game and has no history to speak of. Now he plays in an exclusive invite only tournament .
That would be an interesting set of circumstances to play your first pro games in..
I enjoyed this power rank and the reasoning is pretty easy to follow. I hope that once Flash actually gets a chance to play some games he'll prove that he deserves a higher spot..and it's nice to see the twins up there, I hope they keep doing well because I can't help but love them.
well fakesteve did say something along those lines when the power rank first came out. that conversation no longer appears to be there... maybe i misread.
and for both you miserable little people: whether a power rank covers two weeks or two months, past performances still maintain an effect. like when Manifesto brings up the stat about Leta in the power rank. and when i'm asking for a "discernible effect", well that's a subjective term, right? You might interpret it as "how much a player dropped". for me, it's "how long did that drop last". For me, a two week drop to number 5 and then an instarise to number 2 is not enough.
and that's just me. much of my judgement depends on my not acknowleding the OSL Wildcard results. Those games shouldn't have happened, and winning against a bunch of second rate baddies while avoiding zergs (yeah, mind is second rate) doesn't mean much to me. neither does his recent PL wins against hyvaa and magma. there's a reason hyvaa doesnt get credit for queens even though he tried using them before jaedong: he sucks.
bisu's failures in pvz in the month of january have got to be acknowledged for more than two weeks. #2 is too high imo
hahaha
"Those games shouldn't have happened, so therefore I don't acknowledge that they happened"
Maybe I should convince myself that cars cannot hit me, and then run out into the middle of a highway during rush hour.
You just don't want to accept reality. Bisu is currently peaking his ELO right now. He regained his KeSPA #1 rank. He is favored to win GOM. He is a strong force to be reckoned with in the OSL. He is a threat to nearly every time in PL right now. He is easily one of most dangerous players right now.
You don't think that the OSL Wildcard Tournament should have happened, and so therefore you basically pretend it didn't happen. And even if you are forced to accept it happened, you have to try to discredit it in whatever way you can, like calling people like Mind and Sea "second rate baddies", or "he didn't face any Zergs" (like that would have made a difference, seeing all the Zergs in the wildcard didn't even make it out of round 1). Going 6-0 that one night means nothing, yet losing to by.hero on Tears of the Moon, and losing to Savior on Neo Harmony mean everything.
And you call me a "miserable little person". el oh el.
Putting a player that has done literally nothing in individual leagues makes my stomach ache. Don't get me wrong I like the kid and understand the reason for putting him at the top.
On February 02 2009 13:07 d_so wrote: i agree with anytime.
and totally disagree with bisu. guy has done nothing but lose and got lucky to be in osl (didnt face z). he has become the face of pvz ineptitude, losing against savior, zero, hero twice, luxury all within three weeks.
and that leads to number 2 and a plus 3 rise? sorry yo but that makes no sense
Being invincible PvP and PvT, going 6-0 all in the same night, and again reaching his ELO peak. Does that not make sense? I mean, he lost on Neo Harmony and Tears of the Moon. Both maps are abominations. And Lux 5pooled him. And all of that equals him being inept at PvZ? He didn't look inept at PvZ vs Estro yesterday.
I mean, the guy is about to win GOM, and is probably one of the favorites to win the OSL. Yeah, that means hes bad and slumping. Great logic.
Maps work both ways (Medusa). Last night Bisu vs Hyvaa, bisu was seriously behind after the attack on the nat since hyvaa adjusted his 3 hatch timing to counter the 2archon push, however, he made many mistakes to give away the game (not saying that Bisu played badly). 1) He neglected to burrow three lurkers during the attack on his nat and 2) he let 10 hydras get stormed, literally, they stood under the storm the entire time, allowing Bisu to take down his third before his zealots finished it off. Obviously, it's more that zergs have figured out the appropriate counters on the right maps but since we'll be playing on the same maps, Bisu will continue to have trouble with his PvZ against competent zergs. (his OSL group).
His other MUs are invincible, but his PvZ will remain inconsistent during this phase of the metagame until he changes his playstyle or go back to heavy reaver/sair style. My opinion of course.
lol? Bisu was in no way behind after the attack on the natural, the game was pretty much even by then, and 30sec later he takes out hyvvas 3rd and I agree hyvva should have microed his hydras better to avoid storms, but there was no way he could save that expo, bisu could have just kept on focus firing and killing it while he was dodging the storm.
Now I had a hard time seeing the upgrades but to me it looked like Bisu was at 2+ wep when hyvva was still at 0-0-0 (could have had +1 missile but like I said hard to see @ youtube) And even with 2bases vs 3bases and 5hatches P still have a fair chance with good upgrades to take down a hydra\lurk army, especially this game where hyvva was never able to get up a large number of hydras and with an economy constantly suffering (he lost lots of drones on that attack at the natural, late 3rd, constantly having to sink all his money into units etc) and as seen in the game Bisu already had another army ready that he used to take down his 3rd after the "failed" natural attack. The last battle perfectly showed how a good mixed and upgraded P army just rolls a hydra\lurk army (unless they have superior numbers and good flanking)
So using this game as an example of Bisu not playing good PvZ is just stupid, when he was never in any danger of losing the game throughout the entire game.
On February 02 2009 13:48 xxsaznpride wrote: Imo boring PR. Agreeing with everyone and not creating a torrent of hatred 800 comments long is just sad.
==
lol fun read. Only part I disagree with is Leta because: I haven't watched a single game of his; you're using Guemchi, who I only know as a rookie to watch out for with a shitty overall record, as the best example to justify his #1.
==
9/10 because you put fbh in your proleague team lol
i'm glad you realize that you are completely unqualified to make any statement about leta, but then proceed to say he doesn't deserve his PR spot.
awesome.
I was pretty much asking "are there any examples against S-class players?". Geez no need to get so uppity about it.
At least I'm not shooting people down without trying to at least point them in the right direction (well, at least not here).
On February 02 2009 13:48 xxsaznpride wrote: Imo boring PR. Agreeing with everyone and not creating a torrent of hatred 800 comments long is just sad.
==
lol fun read. Only part I disagree with is Leta because: I haven't watched a single game of his; you're using Guemchi, who I only know as a rookie to watch out for with a shitty overall record, as the best example to justify his #1.
==
9/10 because you put fbh in your proleague team lol
i'm glad you realize that you are completely unqualified to make any statement about leta, but then proceed to say he doesn't deserve his PR spot.
awesome.
I was pretty much asking "are there any examples against S-class players?". Geez no need to get so uppity about it.
At least I'm not shooting people down without trying to at least point them in the right direction (well, at least not here).
Go watch the game vs guemchi. Then also keep in mind that Guemchi was 3-0 going into this game.
^ Thanks. Appreciate the reccomendation, good sir.
Edit: SPOILERS FOR THAT GAME I GUESS -The first push didn't really look good for either player, but all that dropping was really nice. For -Guemchi's first push, there were like 5 or 6 SCVs right next to each other, but instead the reaver he dropped kills the vulture and only 1 scv. -And I really liked Guemchi's cannons: they totally kept Leta from completely wrecking him. Oh wait... -Reaver drop lol. Nice 1/2 scvs taken out. -12nex got so raped... by 2 vultures haha. Not even talking about all the prove kills from the vult raids, either. - 17:50 in and he, guemchi, FINALLY adds some form of defense to one of his bases, omg. - 19 in, nice static defense guemchi, it really saved your ass on that one. Oh wait... - 22:20 in: LOL good luck guemchi.
Looked more like Guemchi's loss than Leta's win. No anti-raid cannons at ANY base, hell no forge that I saw during the whole broadcast. Good for Leta to see that and just keep up the agression, but damn. I'm a D- terran who tries protoss once in a while, and even I put a few cannons at each base.
I'll be sure to check out the rest of the matches like you said, of course. But do they get any better than (my impression of) this one?
I've generally agreed with the Power Rankings the last few months (even Jangbi at #1 was okay considering the alternative), but this is a really poor ranking. Sorry. Pretty much everything is off.
On February 03 2009 01:08 SimonB wrote: I've generally agreed with the Power Rankings the last few months (even Jangbi at #1 was okay considering the alternative), but this is a really poor ranking. Sorry. Pretty much everything is off.
you proven that you have absolutely no knowledge about pro sc scene, all of the previous PRs were way off at some points at a time the 1st place at onther time the 10th sometimes many ranks. I, and many others, believe that TL did not see a so accurate PR. Period. Dont get me wrong i like FS and Oneother, these ranks and the explanations are justifeid. As it was said at the start it focuses more on PL cuz nothing really happened besides that. ofc some places can be argued, but that doesnt mean they arent justified! Anytime 9th place without any SL perfromance. BUT, yeat again read what Mani linked in his first description ffs....
Really great PR, funny, in time, accurate, congratulations
No disrespect FS, but I think this PowerRank was a lot better thought through and at the positions where I had doubt/different opinions, the arguments behind it had me nodding, sometimes even agreeing.
Yeah, I like the choice of people on the rank, although the order - as always - could be questioned. Good, clearheaded choice to put Anytime on the rank and Jaedong at #3, solely for the huge threat factor that he is towards anyone.
On February 03 2009 04:13 GinNtoniC wrote: No disrespect FS, but I think this PowerRank was a lot better thought through and at the positions where I had doubt/different opinions, the arguments behind it had me nodding, sometimes even agreeing.
Yeah, I like the choice of people on the rank, although the order - as always - could be questioned. Good, clearheaded choice to put Anytime on the rank and Jaedong at #3, solely for the huge threat factor that he is towards anyone.
When I first saw this PR, my first expression was: "HAS FAKESTEVE GONE MAD?" I then looked at who wrote it was was even more shocked "HAS MANIFESTO7 GONE MAD?" Then I was told to calm down and read the PR. After reading it, I have no complaints...
On February 02 2009 23:15 xxsaznpride wrote: ^ Thanks. Appreciate the reccomendation, good sir.
Edit: SPOILERS FOR THAT GAME I GUESS -The first push didn't really look good for either player, but all that dropping was really nice. For -Guemchi's first push, there were like 5 or 6 SCVs right next to each other, but instead the reaver he dropped kills the vulture and only 1 scv. -And I really liked Guemchi's cannons: they totally kept Leta from completely wrecking him. Oh wait... -Reaver drop lol. Nice 1/2 scvs taken out. -12nex got so raped... by 2 vultures haha. Not even talking about all the prove kills from the vult raids, either. - 17:50 in and he, guemchi, FINALLY adds some form of defense to one of his bases, omg. - 19 in, nice static defense guemchi, it really saved your ass on that one. Oh wait... - 22:20 in: LOL good luck guemchi.
Looked more like Guemchi's loss than Leta's win. No anti-raid cannons at ANY base, hell no forge that I saw during the whole broadcast. Good for Leta to see that and just keep up the agression, but damn. I'm a D- terran who tries protoss once in a while, and even I put a few cannons at each base.
I'll be sure to check out the rest of the matches like you said, of course. But do they get any better than (my impression of) this one?
I, for one, was really impressed by how Leta sniped Free's probe that was going to build his 4th like 5 times even through Free's whole army. In the end Free had to bring 2 probes at once and babysit them with his whole army. I think the other one of those got taken out either way.
On February 03 2009 01:08 SimonB wrote: I've generally agreed with the Power Rankings the last few months (even Jangbi at #1 was okay considering the alternative), but this is a really poor ranking. Sorry. Pretty much everything is off.
Nice rank however i think anytime is unjustified. He has only beaten Jangbi that is on the current powerrank in recent games. Beating players like haran boxer oov odin and FBH(PvT) isn't enough to get the spot i'd rather give to for example upmagic who's looking stronger than ever on a 17-6 record since 16th november.
But then again, sashin might be a player darth vader picks only cause he's biased towards death..
On February 03 2009 01:08 SimonB wrote: I've generally agreed with the Power Rankings the last few months (even Jangbi at #1 was okay considering the alternative), but this is a really poor ranking. Sorry. Pretty much everything is off.
Care to tell me why?
Because he's an idiot. This one is spot on. Leta is owning the shit out of every one. Bisu going 6-0 in a night is statistically unlikely even if he's 4:1 favourite over everyone he faces. That he did, plus what he did to skyhigh, assures any doubts there should be about him. JaeDong is an easy #3 for most scary and we simply cannot deny JangBi's results, nor the quality of the gameplay he shows to get them. And just the idea of FlaSh is scary. He's a monster. This is spot on.
I'd only put Bisu on top of Leta because I haven't seen Leta beat an S-class player in a Bo5 yet. Bisu still gives me that feeling "aw shit, that guy has to play Bisu," sort of how Flash was before and despite his loses to Zergs.
At first look thought Anytime and July were crazy picks, but not really sure who you could put ahead of them. Maybe UP deserves it more, but more a coin flip.
Also don't think Flash has lost any shine, he is still a god, just no longer the best Terran around. I would defiantly rank him ahead of Jangbi, but one spot doesn't really matter.
And you are really throwing coins in the wishing well by saying "the road looks shiny and bright for July to make history as the first four-time OSL winner". He has to get past the still top two dragons(Stork went on a 4 game win streak right after his 4 game loosing streak) and Yarnc who has been showing signs of life in zvz. If he gets past them he will likely have two face at least 2 of the five lousy terrans in the field, Leta and Flash maybe, sounds like pie.
On February 02 2009 14:57 Darth Peter wrote: Wow,this PR is a great surprise,even in my dreams I didn't see it coming so early. But wow! Great job Mani! Your style is refreshing,because FS started to get boring. He didn't have those great writeups anymore,like the ones he used to have. but this PR is great. I loled at nearly every description. I don't know about Leta,perhaps I wouldn't put him on no1 yet,but the kid seems to be really unbeatable. I don't think July deserves a spot either,perhaps he deserved last month,but he didn't do anything specific,and his winning streak came to a hault by the hands of Hiya. I like the fact that there are so many zergs on the list,and I hope they will win a SL this season,and I also like Anytime being on the list. I still think Best should be there tho. Oh,and are you doing all the PR's from now on? Cuz' that would be awesome! EDIT: Nvm my nitpicking,I didn't read the explanation. Now it makes perfect sense and I wouldn't like to fuck with Lord Vader.
the last PR i wrote was the longest PR written so what the fuck are you talking about
Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
On February 03 2009 11:29 Dazed_Spy wrote: Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
Leta is just hotter?
Take out his first few months (his first 10 games) and Leta has achieved an unbelievable 50-17(75%) record over slightly more than a year . No championships yet, but he hasn't been a programmer as long as flash.
On February 02 2009 14:57 Darth Peter wrote: Wow,this PR is a great surprise,even in my dreams I didn't see it coming so early. But wow! Great job Mani! Your style is refreshing,because FS started to get boring. He didn't have those great writeups anymore,like the ones he used to have. but this PR is great. I loled at nearly every description. I don't know about Leta,perhaps I wouldn't put him on no1 yet,but the kid seems to be really unbeatable. I don't think July deserves a spot either,perhaps he deserved last month,but he didn't do anything specific,and his winning streak came to a hault by the hands of Hiya. I like the fact that there are so many zergs on the list,and I hope they will win a SL this season,and I also like Anytime being on the list. I still think Best should be there tho. Oh,and are you doing all the PR's from now on? Cuz' that would be awesome! EDIT: Nvm my nitpicking,I didn't read the explanation. Now it makes perfect sense and I wouldn't like to fuck with Lord Vader.
The last PR i wrote was the longest PR written so what the fuck are you talking about
I am talking about quality,not the length. I really liked your PR's six-seven months ago,but your latest PR's were missing the sparks you once had. The last one had it,but that just straight annoyed me. Thinking back on it now I know I've bben really harsh,but I was really pissed off at Bisu and you for not putting him higher,and looking back,maybe that position was justified. But still,no offense but I prefer Mani's style right now.
On February 03 2009 11:29 Dazed_Spy wrote: Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
Leta is just hotter?
Take out his first few months (his first 10 games) and Leta has achieved an unbelievable 50-17(75%) record over slightly more than a year . No championships yet, but he hasn't been a programmer as long as flash.
Yup. Flash has a ridiculous record too, in actual series, against actual hard players, on actually imbalanced maps. Leta is really really really good. He looks like he will do well in the SL's. But lets get this straight: There is a huge fucking difference between the career of Flash and Leta. Leta is more akin to Sea than any other terran at moment- though I do not think he will be a choker.
On February 03 2009 11:29 Dazed_Spy wrote: Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
Leta is just hotter?
Take out his first few months (his first 10 games) and Leta has achieved an unbelievable 50-17(75%) record over slightly more than a year . No championships yet, but he hasn't been a programmer as long as flash.
Umm... Flash and Leta came up to the A team at about the same time. It's just that one sucked while the other instantly became successful.
And trying to compare a Proleague specialist with Flash, the player with the heaviest workload among all progamers PLUS being a high schooler, is a really disservice to Flash.
On February 03 2009 11:29 Dazed_Spy wrote: Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
Leta is just hotter?
Take out his first few months (his first 10 games) and Leta has achieved an unbelievable 50-17(75%) record over slightly more than a year . No championships yet, but he hasn't been a programmer as long as flash.
Umm... Flash and Leta came up to the A team at about the same time. It's just that one sucked while the other instantly became successful.
And trying to compare a Proleague specialist with Flash, the player with the heaviest workload among all progamers PLUS being a high schooler, is a really disservice to Flash.
Flash doesnt have that much work recently as in the previous season
On February 03 2009 12:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: programmer?
Fine Professional SC Player
No, he's talking about you mistyping progamer for programmer.
If we're talking about programming, I'd easily pwn all these noobs on the PR. P
On February 03 2009 12:18 I_L_Jl wrote:
On February 03 2009 11:29 Dazed_Spy wrote: Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
Leta is just hotter?
Take out his first few months (his first 10 games) and Leta has achieved an unbelievable 50-17(75%) record over slightly more than a year . No championships yet, but he hasn't been a programmer as long as flash.
Umm... Flash and Leta came up to the A team at about the same time. It's just that one sucked while the other instantly became successful.
And trying to compare a Proleague specialist with Flash, the player with the heaviest workload among all progamers PLUS being a high schooler, is a really disservice to Flash.
Flash doesnt have that much work recently as in the previous season
He hasn't had as much work since winter leagues started. Yay. Three weeks of fuckin reprieve.
On February 02 2009 12:03 Plexa wrote: I have issues with Luxury being so high, mostly because of how his games unfolded. Yes the man boasts impressive results, but the games themselves were not champion material games - they were mostly cheeses, all-ins and build order wins (see his OSL games, and vs Stork in PL and so on) while his losses have been abysmal.
Everything else is fine
All in, aggressive style is always zerg's style, if no aggressiveness, wait for 10 mins, then start fighting the first battle vs toss, how can a zerg get on top?
i do agree that leta is hot, but i think the fact that he hasn't yet proven himself in an individual league should stop him from being #1. of course, that's just because i believe darth vader would make it a bo5.
On February 03 2009 12:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: programmer?
Fine Professional SC Player
No, he's talking about you mistyping progamer for programmer.
If we're talking about programming, I'd easily pwn all these noobs on the PR. P
On February 03 2009 12:18 I_L_Jl wrote:
On February 03 2009 11:29 Dazed_Spy wrote: Flash is still the best Terran. Leta is just hotter. He deserves the spot more, but there is really no question as to who would go farther in a starleague, or who has more skill.
Leta is just hotter?
Take out his first few months (his first 10 games) and Leta has achieved an unbelievable 50-17(75%) record over slightly more than a year . No championships yet, but he hasn't been a programmer as long as flash.
Umm... Flash and Leta came up to the A team at about the same time. It's just that one sucked while the other instantly became successful.
And trying to compare a Proleague specialist with Flash, the player with the heaviest workload among all progamers PLUS being a high schooler, is a really disservice to Flash.
Flash doesnt have that much work recently as in the previous season
I don't understand your point. Neither I nor the person I responded to was talking about recently. We're talking about over the past year.
Thanks for placing Anytime in the PR. He deserves credit for pulling away such results while being in ACE. I bet next month wills Savior coming back from oblivion too.
Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues.Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
As for Stork being at the bottom, eh, I guess I can't argue much about it because he went on that losing streak in Proleague. But him handling forGG/go.go to easily advance from the group, then beating NaDa on infamous Rush Hour III and then taking down Mind shows he's still the greatest PvTer in the world. Hopefully it's also a sign that he's back to his normal form.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this Power Rank, particularly your writing style. Thanks Mani!
I agree 100%, with all three points. On the JangBi inconsistency, even though I know it doesn't mean much, I remember when he had a 90% win-ratio on iccup (one of the best ratios I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). Even if there aren't only progamers, it's still a very high level of play and this to me is a proof that he's the kind of guy that hates losing and is always capable of finding a way to victory against a lesser opponent.
Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues.Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
As for Stork being at the bottom, eh, I guess I can't argue much about it because he went on that losing streak in Proleague. But him handling forGG/go.go to easily advance from the group, then beating NaDa on infamous Rush Hour III and then taking down Mind shows he's still the greatest PvTer in the world. Hopefully it's also a sign that he's back to his normal form.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this Power Rank, particularly your writing style. Thanks Mani!
I agree 100%, with all three points. On the JangBi inconsistency, even though I know it doesn't mean much, I remember when he had a 90% win-ratio on iccup (one of the best ratios I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). Even if there aren't only progamers, it's still a very high level of play and this to me is a proof that he's the kind of guy that hates losing and is always capable of finding a way to victory against a lesser opponent.
He pulls trough individual leauges while Bisu doesnt? Let's see, Bisu: OSL (with wildcard though), GOM; Jangbi: MSL, GOM (with the luckiest, easiest road possible)
I dont see how do you use idinvidual leagues against Bisu and in favor of Jangbi
Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues.Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
As for Stork being at the bottom, eh, I guess I can't argue much about it because he went on that losing streak in Proleague. But him handling forGG/go.go to easily advance from the group, then beating NaDa on infamous Rush Hour III and then taking down Mind shows he's still the greatest PvTer in the world. Hopefully it's also a sign that he's back to his normal form.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this Power Rank, particularly your writing style. Thanks Mani!
I agree 100%, with all three points. On the JangBi inconsistency, even though I know it doesn't mean much, I remember when he had a 90% win-ratio on iccup (one of the best ratios I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). Even if there aren't only progamers, it's still a very high level of play and this to me is a proof that he's the kind of guy that hates losing and is always capable of finding a way to victory against a lesser opponent.
He pulls trough individual leauges while Bisu doesnt? Let's see, Bisu: OSL (with wildcard though), GOM; Jangbi: MSL, GOM (with the luckiest, easiest road possible)
I dont see how do you use idinvidual leagues against Bisu and in favor of Jangbi
Hmm, I was more making a point about the initial argument that "JangBi can lose to anyone". All progamers can lose to anyone (including Bisu, just an example picked by OneOther..), but someone with a good sense of seeing cheeses coming and coming back from a BO disadvantage is less likely to do so. To me the 90% win ratio on Iccup proves that JangBi is in this category, not just a player with good mechanics which will get outsmarted from time to time by lesser opponents.
Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues.Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
As for Stork being at the bottom, eh, I guess I can't argue much about it because he went on that losing streak in Proleague. But him handling forGG/go.go to easily advance from the group, then beating NaDa on infamous Rush Hour III and then taking down Mind shows he's still the greatest PvTer in the world. Hopefully it's also a sign that he's back to his normal form.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this Power Rank, particularly your writing style. Thanks Mani!
I agree 100%, with all three points. On the JangBi inconsistency, even though I know it doesn't mean much, I remember when he had a 90% win-ratio on iccup (one of the best ratios I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). Even if there aren't only progamers, it's still a very high level of play and this to me is a proof that he's the kind of guy that hates losing and is always capable of finding a way to victory against a lesser opponent.
He pulls trough individual leauges while Bisu doesnt? Let's see, Bisu: OSL (with wildcard though), GOM; Jangbi: MSL, GOM (with the luckiest, easiest road possible)
I dont see how do you use idinvidual leagues against Bisu and in favor of Jangbi
Hmm, I was more making a point about the initial argument that "JangBi can lose to anyone". All progamers can lose to anyone (including Bisu, just an example picked by OneOther..), but someone with a good sense of seeing cheeses coming and coming back from a BO disadvantage is less likely to do so. To me the 90% win ratio on Iccup proves that JangBi is in this category, not just a player with good mechanics which will get outsmarted from time to time by lesser opponents.
Or that he tries harder than the other pros playing there? Wasnt magma A+ with like 2-4 losses last season?
On February 05 2009 18:41 amanet wrote: puting Leta 1st is ridiculous .. he cant beat bisu
It's not about who can beat who, it's about who can beat the most players in the proscene today, in how dominating a fashion, and how consistently. FBH was on the PR many times even though he would probably lose to every Protoss on the list (generally).
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
I can assure you,he knows. He just said to the other guy that right now,Hwasin doesn't have anything to prove to be ranked,because his results are already fuckin' good. He is thinking that if the PR was done right now,Hwasin should have a spot on it.
On February 06 2009 07:22 Sentenal wrote: If Bisu didn't fail so hard in the MSL, he would have such a good shot at winning the thing now. Jaedong is gone, Flash and Insurance are in.
Flash's tvp is probably at a higher quality than Jaedong zvp atm. Bisu's pvz looked suspiciously weak in about all of five games. Jaedong's has been a little iffy [not bad, but iffy] for a couple of months. He's shown bad and good games in that time.
On February 06 2009 07:22 Sentenal wrote: If Bisu didn't fail so hard in the MSL, he would have such a good shot at winning the thing now. Jaedong is gone, Flash and Insurance are in.
Flash's tvp is probably at a higher quality than Jaedong zvp atm. Bisu's pvz looked suspiciously weak in about all of five games. Jaedong's has been a little iffy [not bad, but iffy] for a couple of months. He's shown bad and good games in that time.
Didn't Bisu recently beat Flash in a Bo3? Isn't his PvT like 9-1 in the past 10? I think that says it all.
On February 06 2009 07:22 Sentenal wrote: If Bisu didn't fail so hard in the MSL, he would have such a good shot at winning the thing now. Jaedong is gone, Flash and Insurance are in.
Flash's tvp is probably at a higher quality than Jaedong zvp atm. Bisu's pvz looked suspiciously weak in about all of five games. Jaedong's has been a little iffy [not bad, but iffy] for a couple of months. He's shown bad and good games in that time.
On February 06 2009 07:22 Sentenal wrote: If Bisu didn't fail so hard in the MSL, he would have such a good shot at winning the thing now. Jaedong is gone, Flash and Insurance are in.
Flash's tvp is probably at a higher quality than Jaedong zvp atm. Bisu's pvz looked suspiciously weak in about all of five games. Jaedong's has been a little iffy [not bad, but iffy] for a couple of months. He's shown bad and good games in that time.
Bisu is 3-1 vs Flash in recent history.
...playing on rather Protoss favoured map. And their match in Gom was really close. I don't think you can call on any on them when they meet even though I would say Bisu would probably be considered favourite.
On February 06 2009 07:22 Sentenal wrote: If Bisu didn't fail so hard in the MSL, he would have such a good shot at winning the thing now. Jaedong is gone, Flash and Insurance are in.
Flash's tvp is probably at a higher quality than Jaedong zvp atm. Bisu's pvz looked suspiciously weak in about all of five games. Jaedong's has been a little iffy [not bad, but iffy] for a couple of months. He's shown bad and good games in that time.
Bisu is 3-1 vs Flash in recent history.
...playing on rather Protoss favoured map. And their match in Gom was really close. I don't think you can call on any on them when they meet even though I would say Bisu would probably be considered favourite.
i dont think the maps will be any better for Flash in recent future, so his wins are fully legitime, it's not like he pulled out, and next time they meet he will get raped beacause of the mpas wont favor him. Btw Medusa is considered the toss heaven, but Flash has a good record on it. Imo that map has several advantages for Terrans, unfortunaetely most of the terrans die in early-mid game. The safe 3 expos really favor T's turtle+one punch tactic, and the Toss has to take the other main+naturals if he wants to stay ahead when the T occupies a close 4th base, basicly he must secure the 2/3 of the map. Also the T can take down the Temples in no seconds when he moves out with his tank army. The fastest way for toss to take them down is 2 reavers attacking it, but that takes like 20 seconds at least too.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
a WEEKLY PR? you're dreaming man it would be cool but probably not very meaningful
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
a WEEKLY PR? you're dreaming man it would be cool but probably not very meaningful
eh', tenth spot is always given out to a player that looks impressive but hasn't really *proven* it without a shadow of a doubt. It's not a very important spot. Depending on how Savior does this month, its very possible he can get on the power rank.
On February 06 2009 07:22 Sentenal wrote: If Bisu didn't fail so hard in the MSL, he would have such a good shot at winning the thing now. Jaedong is gone, Flash and Insurance are in.
Flash's tvp is probably at a higher quality than Jaedong zvp atm. Bisu's pvz looked suspiciously weak in about all of five games. Jaedong's has been a little iffy [not bad, but iffy] for a couple of months. He's shown bad and good games in that time.
Didn't Bisu recently beat Flash in a Bo3? Isn't his PvT like 9-1 in the past 10? I think that says it all.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
Wow, you're blind. How can a blind man type? Woot, that's a serious issue.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
Wow, you're blind. How can a blind man type? Woot, that's a serious issue.
btw go go Savior
What? Let me quote his post for you.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
See, he's not quoting anyone. Who's blind again...
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
Wow, you're blind. How can a blind man type? Woot, that's a serious issue.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
Wow, you're blind. How can a blind man type? Woot, that's a serious issue.
btw go go Savior
What? Let me quote his post for you.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
See, he's not quoting anyone. Who's blind again...
DO YOU HAVE EYES? HIT THAT SPOILER TAG YOU BLIND M********!! God, are you making fun? It's not funny at all, playing the dumb. That's too dumb already
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
He didn't quote anyone. What are you talking about? :/
Savior should be in next week's PR ^_^
Wow, you're blind. How can a blind man type? Woot, that's a serious issue.
btw go go Savior
What? Let me quote his post for you.
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
See, he's not quoting anyone. Who's blind again...
DO YOU HAVE EYES? HIT THAT SPOILER TAG YOU BLIND M********!! God, are you making fun? It's not funny at all, playing the dumb. That's too dumb already
Seriously, what are you talking about?
On February 06 2009 18:42 Geo.Rion wrote: On February 06 2009 04:16 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: On February 06 2009 00:35 Geo.Rion wrote: On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
... ... ...
Is anything you dont understand now?
let's not spam this, PM me if you are so dumb and blind you dont get it
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
so basically yes, my reply to his post was really hard to understand for you
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
so basically yes, my reply to his post was really hard to understand for you
Yeah, he replied to the other guy. Of course you wouldn't mean that he shouldnt have quoted you afterwards... Wow, Romania.
And wow at all the personal insults caused by your lack of understanding...
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
was my reply to this post
On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
so basically yes, my reply to his post was really hard to understand for you
Yeah, he replied to the other guy. Of course you wouldn't mean that he shouldnt have quoted you afterwards... Wow, Romania.
And wow at all the personal insults caused by your lack of understanding...
you're IQ is far below 40, and you keep spamming this topic. He answered a post, i answered his, he queted mine post any says he answered the initial guy once again. Tha you come and for no reason start throwing shit out on your mouth.
For you and other idiots to understand: He wrote:
On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
I quoted him, and answered him: On February 06 2009 00:35 Geo.Rion wrote:
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
He quoted this very post, and answered: On February 06 2009 04:16 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: Hide nested quote - On February 06 2009 00:35 Geo.Rion wrote: On February 05 2009 23:26 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: exactly, wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL and then he'll be ranked
9-1 in his last 10 games, wins over S class progamers in their good/best MUs, he needs nothing more to prove he belongs to PR. Maybe not very high, but he's on fire
you don't get it, you can't ask for hwasin to be ranked right now because PR isnt updated daily
My answer was:
And exactly when I asked to put Hwasin on PR right now? I said he belongs there considering his recent performence. That's all. If the PR was realeased today, or Hwasin's performance wont get worse he has the spot, he has nothing more to prove.
His: was my reply to this post On February 05 2009 23:23 Drazzzt wrote: Where is Hwasin? This guy is really hot right now. Wait until he owns all in MSL/OSL
really hard to understand or w00t ?
So he claims he answered a post, as you see above didn't quote, but quoted another. In fact he already answered that post befor, and i responded to him, only based on what he wrote, ignoring the other dude
My only possible and logical reaction was:
Maybe if you doesnt quote my post instead of his would be more understandable, but who knows
Than you come and start to spam, and pis me off, with you 40 IQ posts. Just wow! How good the school-system in Finland must be, that an idiot like you still can learn english and how to type? Or did your mother translate this to you?
And f***** PM me if you are so stupid you still have sg to say beside apologises, dont spam this topic any further you mindless pice of...... spammer
Bisu just 3-1ed Jangbi, first Protoss with 4 golds now. Now lets just watch how the OSL unfolds for him. Bisu's PvZ might be a bit shaky, but this guy is invincible in PvP and PvT right now. If he can beat Jaedong on the 2/22 in a Bo5, he should be #1 for sure.
Bisu is the king! Call me a fanboy,I don't care,I am. I think no hater or naysayer can come up with anything now.
Savior is the God !
I have to agree!
And what's with the personal insults? Isn't there a rule against that or something. I honestly didn't understand anything about the post anyway, but I'll say that Finland's school system is one of the best and most respected in the world.
Bisu is the king! Call me a fanboy,I don't care,I am. I think no hater or naysayer can come up with anything now.
Savior is the God !
I have to agree!
And what's with the personal insults? Isn't there a rule against that or something. I honestly didn't understand anything about the post anyway, but I'll say that Finland's school system is one of the best and most respected in the world.
Yes, i have to agree. if an idiot like you can be taught to speak english, well, those teachers must be the very best of their profession. And let's close it here. you clearly don't have the ability to understand simple things, and since i;m not as briliant as your teachers i wont menage to explain you anything. respect to them anyways.
It's too early to declare that yet. But no 3 at least sounds reasonable at this point in time. 2 or 1 depends on what will Leta and Bisu do this month. Bisu already set the pace for them,let's see how these two will react. Flash reacted well. And also,Leta and Flash will face each other.
Bisu nr 1 kespa, nr 1 ELO, shouldbe nr 1 powerrank
He actually dropped his rank coz he is not in the OSL (or MSL dont remember atm), while winning Last MSL winning last GOMTV and entering the next MSL or OSL.
Thats harsh
(yeah i know, at the time it was abit wierd that he lost 4 games in one night, but still haaaaarsh)
it was pretty unnecessary to bring "Romania" into consideration...I mean wtf ?! u guys consider that an insult? I`m proud to be a Romanian. Anyway...I shouldn`t even care about that in the first place
On February 09 2009 08:21 purple[time] wrote: am I the only one that feels Hwasin should be moved up since he beat Flash and Jaedong?
How could you be?, the last two pages of this PR was flaming about who said Hwasin should be on the PR and when Hwasin should be on the PR and who got it right about who said what.
he should probably be moved onto the pr if he keeps this level of play up, yeah. but we have more than a month to go, so why bother posting this? It's like making arguments over leta bisu jaedong or flash for #1 in a month. It's a month, who the hell knows what will happen?
On February 09 2009 08:21 purple[time] wrote: am I the only one that feels Hwasin should be moved up since he beat Flash and Jaedong?
How could you be?, the last two pages of this PR was flaming about who said Hwasin should be on the PR and when Hwasin should be on the PR and who got it right about who said what.
Stay cool guys. I just asked about Hwasin as he was in the last PR and not in this one even though his record became even better. Anyways, I know Manifesto used another ranking system and it's his decision alone whom he ranks or not. But I hope that Hwasin will keep up his good performance and will be ranked properly next PR. PEACE~
Jangbi has the unique ability to not only beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well.
I disagree. Jangbi is one of the most consistent players right now, especially out of the Protoss pool. His losses come rarely in Proleague; he pulls through every time in individual leagues.Everyone drops unexpected matches at times, that's just the nature of the game. This is certainly not a unique quality, because it happens to everyone. What about Bisu? Could you say the same thing for Bisu then? He lost verses Zergs he was supposed to beat. I also remember when Jaedong lost to guys like Tempest in a best out of three, but that doesn't all of sudden make him a player "that can beat anyone in the world, but lose to anyone as well." I don't know, I feel like you are using an unfair criteria for Jangbi regarding this when it's not a distinctive quality.
As for Stork being at the bottom, eh, I guess I can't argue much about it because he went on that losing streak in Proleague. But him handling forGG/go.go to easily advance from the group, then beating NaDa on infamous Rush Hour III and then taking down Mind shows he's still the greatest PvTer in the world. Hopefully it's also a sign that he's back to his normal form.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this Power Rank, particularly your writing style. Thanks Mani!
I agree 100%, with all three points. On the JangBi inconsistency, even though I know it doesn't mean much, I remember when he had a 90% win-ratio on iccup (one of the best ratios I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). Even if there aren't only progamers, it's still a very high level of play and this to me is a proof that he's the kind of guy that hates losing and is always capable of finding a way to victory against a lesser opponent.
He pulls trough individual leauges while Bisu doesnt? Let's see, Bisu: OSL (with wildcard though), GOM; Jangbi: MSL, GOM (with the luckiest, easiest road possible)
I dont see how do you use idinvidual leagues against Bisu and in favor of Jangbi
Uhh sorry for the late reply but you completely misunderstood my post. I didn't say anything even close to what you are talking about. My point is that Jangbi is a consistent player in both Proleague and individual leagues, not that he pulls through while Bisu doesn't. Bisu was just an example that I picked to show that even the best players can lose to random opponents. You are on a different planet here.
On February 09 2009 23:40 Drazzzt wrote: Stay cool guys. I just asked about Hwasin as he was in the last PR and not in this one even though his record became even better. Anyways, I know Manifesto used another ranking system and it's his decision alone whom he ranks or not. But I hope that Hwasin will keep up his good performance and will be ranked properly next PR. PEACE~
I feel like a few of his really important wins came after the PR for this month was already created. See: + Show Spoiler +
Bisu should be number one right now. Won the GOM, Kespa #1, ELO #2, looks strong in the OSL. Leta #2 for his performances which are very solid both in the Proleague as in the individual leagues. JangBi #3 for hisGOM Silver, as well for goin 2-0 in the MSL. Flash #4, for being impressive in the Proleague and winning in the MSL Jaedong #5 for winning in the OSL constanly, but lost to Flash Hwasin #6 2-0 in the MSL Group of Death, beating Best in the OSL sAviOr #7 He is on a good winning streak, beat some very good players Luxury #8 and the rest of the spots have no rightful owner
On February 11 2009 21:55 FireEagle wrote: Bisu should be number one right now. Won the GOM, Kespa #1, ELO #2, looks strong in the OSL. Leta #2 for his performances which are very solid both in the Proleague as in the individual leagues. JangBi #3 for hisGOM Silver, as well for goin 2-0 in the MSL. Flash #4, for being impressive in the Proleague and winning in the MSL Jaedong #5 for winning in the OSL constanly, but lost to Flash Hwasin #6 2-0 in the MSL Group of Death, beating Best in the OSL sAviOr #7 He is on a good winning streak, beat some very good players Luxury #8 and the rest of the spots have no rightful owner
Take off Savior and I would agree. Maybe Hwasin > Jaedong atm.
On February 11 2009 21:55 FireEagle wrote: Bisu should be number one right now. Won the GOM, Kespa #1, ELO #2, looks strong in the OSL. Leta #2 for his performances which are very solid both in the Proleague as in the individual leagues. JangBi #3 for hisGOM Silver, as well for goin 2-0 in the MSL. Flash #4, for being impressive in the Proleague and winning in the MSL Jaedong #5 for winning in the OSL constanly, but lost to Flash Hwasin #6 2-0 in the MSL Group of Death, beating Best in the OSL sAviOr #7 He is on a good winning streak, beat some very good players Luxury #8 and the rest of the spots have no rightful owner
Watch Jaedongs games tonight (against ACE - the one vs sunny - and in OSL) - it seems to me like he should be higher. He is either far better than JangBi, or I dislike JangBi far more than I thought.
While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
Yeah,but that's one game. Everybody fucks up once in a while. But he is in both league,is good in WL and has decent chances in MSL,although having to face Bisu doesn't increase his chances of qualifying in the OSL,but still,I think Yarnc is an impressive player,and doesn't deserve to be dropped from the PR,yet(there are still at least two weeks). As for Jaedong,as much as I am a fan of his and am happy that he finally beat Kal and FBH after two fails against each of them in PL,I am not sure that he should be placed above Jangbi,and definitely not above Flash. I was sad that Flash stomped him twice and I was sad after his losses against Hwasin and Free too. It just seems to me that JD is better than the majority of players,but he doesn't win against the big guns,much liek how Flash was too months ago. His games against Bisu will be a good indicator,and I really hope he finally finds his edge because I am a fan of his. EDIT: As for Jangbi,I don't know what to think. He has to be one of the luckiest gamers ever. I mean seriously,he had to beat pepe,had a free win against Backho in the Gom and now he is facing Frozean(are you kidding me????? he's 0-7 in PL) in the MSL. When he plays against lesser opponents,he just makes them look like noobs. And he can stand against the best and has great P v P and P v T. But his P v Z I think is overrated. Everybody comes with stuff like how strong is Jangbi's P v Z,but I didn't see him win an impressive P v Z ever. I mean he loses to almost every player that Bisu lost to,people just don't bitch about that because they didn't meet in a Starleague,so they just say,well,that was only in Proleague,shit happens. But when Bisu lost in Starlagues against Zergs everybody started like Bisu has bad P v Z. Prove me wrong Jangbi,I really hope,I just want you to beat Flash and Bisu(wait,I don't want that,but you get the point),and you are not just capable of beating pepe and players like that.
On February 11 2009 21:55 FireEagle wrote: Bisu should be number one right now. Won the GOM, Kespa #1, ELO #2, looks strong in the OSL. Leta #2 for his performances which are very solid both in the Proleague as in the individual leagues. JangBi #3 for hisGOM Silver, as well for goin 2-0 in the MSL. Flash #4, for being impressive in the Proleague and winning in the MSL Jaedong #5 for winning in the OSL constanly, but lost to Flash Hwasin #6 2-0 in the MSL Group of Death, beating Best in the OSL sAviOr #7 He is on a good winning streak, beat some very good players Luxury #8 and the rest of the spots have no rightful owner
Take off Savior and I would agree. Maybe Hwasin > Jaedong atm.
why the hell would you take savior off? Eight game win streak, possible msl advancement. I think thats what it hinges on, his ability to defeat upmagic.
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
His game vs Kal may not prove anything but his game vs Suny definitely shows his skill. Yes, it was his fault that he got into the mess vs Suny, but it was his skill that pulled for him in the end. Who can't just say he beat a crappy player. That game showecased a lot of strength from both players.
1.Bisu Just on fire lately. Won GOM finals and came back in MSL. No questions asked. 2.Leta Even though his performances did not go down, Bisu took the #1 spot from playing better. Leta is still very solid player, impressive number of consistent wins 3.Flash Dismantling STX players and all-killing the strongest Team Oz is very impressive, and we can expect no less from Flash. 4.Jaedong Despite dropping out of MSL, his loss verse Hwasin seems more like a dumb mistake of being sunken greedy that cost him the game, which cost him the MSL. He thrashed players that he recently and previously did not do well verse, such as FBH, Kal, Casy. Also a +1 for all-killing ACE. 5.Hwasin Did awesome in MSL group, and even went to beat Best (who I regarded as the favorite over him) 6.JangBi # He's shown positive results lately but losing to Bisu was expected. Since he got a free ticket out of semi finals, I can't really give him credit for winning silver in GOM. He also gets +1 for beating Zero, who has vastly improved his ZvP
EDIT: Well, I'm having 2nd thoughts on putting Flash below Leta. I just can't decide
Jurs realised something. JangBi has the second best vT in history, looking at the ELO. And he won his last match vs both Leta and Flash, although those matches were far away. And about the question: who is better: Flash or Leta?, I think we will find out soon
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
Yeah,but that's one game. Everybody fucks up once in a while. But he is in both league,is good in WL and has decent chances in MSL,although having to face Bisu doesn't increase his chances of qualifying in the OSL,but still,I think Yarnc is an impressive player,and doesn't deserve to be dropped from the PR,yet(there are still at least two weeks).
It's just one game, but it showed how badly he responded to a non-FE build which he scouted. That's all. I originally thought his ZvP was okay as long as he wasn't playing Jangbi. But that game was quite pretty bad.
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
His game vs Kal may not prove anything but his game vs Suny definitely shows his skill. Yes, it was his fault that he got into the mess vs Suny, but it was his skill that pulled for him in the end. Who can't just say he beat a crappy player. That game showecased a lot of strength from both players.
Skills to do what? Scourge undefended SVs which were standing still? And then put down swarms at will because there was no SV cloud to irradiate defilers?
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
Yeah,but that's one game. Everybody fucks up once in a while. But he is in both league,is good in WL and has decent chances in MSL,although having to face Bisu doesn't increase his chances of qualifying in the OSL,but still,I think Yarnc is an impressive player,and doesn't deserve to be dropped from the PR,yet(there are still at least two weeks).
It's just one game, but it showed how badly he responded to a non-FE build which he scouted. That's all. I originally thought his ZvP was okay as long as he wasn't playing Jangbi. But that game was quite pretty bad.
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
His game vs Kal may not prove anything but his game vs Suny definitely shows his skill. Yes, it was his fault that he got into the mess vs Suny, but it was his skill that pulled for him in the end. Who can't just say he beat a crappy player. That game showecased a lot of strength from both players.
Skills to do what? Scourge undefended SVs which were standing still? And then put down swarms at will because there was no SV cloud to irradiate defilers?
I`m tired of these haters who complain` about everything. JD made a mistake firstly, but the way he defended was AWESOME, it doesn`t matter who the opponent was.(Well I agree if the opponent was Hwasin or someone that could defend those vessels better, JD wouldn`t have won...but that is just an "IF"). JD did well defending and recovering from an impossible situation, stop spamming excuses. This was another game that looked like JD vs Lomo, in which some people said that Lomo is JD's team mate and blablabla...sigh
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
Yeah,but that's one game. Everybody fucks up once in a while. But he is in both league,is good in WL and has decent chances in MSL,although having to face Bisu doesn't increase his chances of qualifying in the OSL,but still,I think Yarnc is an impressive player,and doesn't deserve to be dropped from the PR,yet(there are still at least two weeks).
It's just one game, but it showed how badly he responded to a non-FE build which he scouted. That's all. I originally thought his ZvP was okay as long as he wasn't playing Jangbi. But that game was quite pretty bad.
On February 12 2009 11:11 Avidkeystamper wrote:
On February 12 2009 01:50 baubo wrote: While Jaedong may or may not be better than Jangbi, I don't know why you use his win against Kal and Sunny as examples. If anything, those games prove squat.
If Sunny was even an average TvZer who practices normally, Jaedong would've lost that game. Sunny lost that game because he just doesn't have the late-game terran control of a normal progamer. As for OSL, winning ZvP on Tears of the Moon doesn't exactly require gosu skills.
That said, I wouldn't mind putting Jaedong above Jangbi.
On February 12 2009 00:31 Darth Peter wrote: I also see no reason why Yarnc would be dropped.
Yarnc may or may not be worthy of the PR next month, but his failure tonight to respond to Stork's one base tech doesn't help matters.
His game vs Kal may not prove anything but his game vs Suny definitely shows his skill. Yes, it was his fault that he got into the mess vs Suny, but it was his skill that pulled for him in the end. Who can't just say he beat a crappy player. That game showecased a lot of strength from both players.
Skills to do what? Scourge undefended SVs which were standing still? And then put down swarms at will because there was no SV cloud to irradiate defilers?
I`m tired of these haters who complain` about everything. JD made a mistake firstly, but the way he defended was AWESOME, it doesn`t matter who the opponent was.(Well I agree if the opponent was Hwasin or someone that could defend those vessels better, JD wouldn`t have won...but that is just an "IF"). JD did well defending and recovering from an impossible situation, stop spamming excuses. This was another game that looked like JD vs Lomo, in which some people said that Lomo is JD's team mate and blablabla...sigh
And I'm tired of people quoting me out of context. Jaedong all-killed Ace that day. His WORST game was against Sunny. So I was annoyed that someone would specifically single out that particular game to show how well Jaedong's playing.
Why can't people appreciate his one-sided rapes against Casy and Anytime, and instead point to a mistake-laden game where Jaedong made mistakes but won because of his opponent's lack of ability.
That game was long, back and forth, and entertaining. But usually, it's the non-entertaining games which are really shows skill.
If the same criteria apply for the next power rank I would put flash at 1 even though I don't like him very much. I can't see anyone being the favorite against him atm, despite the fact that he plays >10 games a week.
As much as I am a Bisu fan,I think right now Flash is the mot impressive player. Bisu won the Gom,but he doesn't do too well in WL. Things can change tho if Flash gets eliminated from OSL and loses some games while Bisu qualifies. I really hope that will happen.
On February 12 2009 14:26 AzureEye wrote: 1.Bisu Just on fire lately. Won GOM finals and came back in MSL. No questions asked. 2.Leta Even though his performances did not go down, Bisu took the #1 spot from playing better. Leta is still very solid player, impressive number of consistent wins 3.Flash Dismantling STX players and all-killing the strongest Team Oz is very impressive, and we can expect no less from Flash. 4.Jaedong Despite dropping out of MSL, his loss verse Hwasin seems more like a dumb mistake of being sunken greedy that cost him the game, which cost him the MSL. He thrashed players that he recently and previously did not do well verse, such as FBH, Kal, Casy. Also a +1 for all-killing ACE. 5.Hwasin Did awesome in MSL group, and even went to beat Best (who I regarded as the favorite over him) 6.JangBi # He's shown positive results lately but losing to Bisu was expected. Since he got a free ticket out of semi finals, I can't really give him credit for winning silver in GOM. He also gets +1 for beating Zero, who has vastly improved his ZvP
EDIT: Well, I'm having 2nd thoughts on putting Flash below Leta. I just can't decide
I must admit that Leta is pretty consistant and has talent, But there is no way he can be rated above flash atm.
My list would be something like
1 Bisu or Flash 2 Bisu or Flash 3 Jaedong 4 Jangbi 5 Leta 6 hwasin etc
im just so fucking happy with all the talent lately. A few months ago it seemed everyone was bad or inconsistent. Bisu is a god atm. Jaedong is amazing atm. Flash is a god, Leta is a Demi god. Jangbi is amazing atm. Hwasin and Luxury are fucking great. Savior is doing fantastic, as is July.
Maybe the 50th time will work: Savior for at least 10. spot next week, please =P I think he has the longest active win streak out of all the progamers.
On February 12 2009 23:50 Shikyo wrote: Maybe the 50th time will work: Savior for at least 10. spot next week, please =P I think he has the longest active win streak out of all the progamers.
huh? i just searched flash jaedong and bisu.. 11 13 12
savior has 9
or do you mean as in this moment? if so flash also has 9 and i haven't checked more than those 3 pretty wierd statement, anyway i think if he can keep this up he can get even higher. Why not, if he plays like this he can take down anyone. Just wanna see him in some BoX soon!!
On February 12 2009 23:50 Shikyo wrote: Maybe the 50th time will work: Savior for at least 10. spot next week, please =P I think he has the longest active win streak out of all the progamers.
On February 12 2009 23:50 Shikyo wrote: Maybe the 50th time will work: Savior for at least 10. spot next week, please =P I think he has the longest active win streak out of all the progamers.
huh? i just searched flash jaedong and bisu.. 11 13 12
savior has 9
or do you mean as in this moment? if so flash also has 9 and i haven't checked more than those 3 pretty wierd statement, anyway i think if he can keep this up he can get even higher. Why not, if he plays like this he can take down anyone. Just wanna see him in some BoX soon!!
What would you intepret the word "active" as? Of course I mean at the moment. And I don't understand where you got your 9 from, since Flash is on a 8-game win streak.
On February 12 2009 23:50 Shikyo wrote: Maybe the 50th time will work: Savior for at least 10. spot next week, please =P I think he has the longest active win streak out of all the progamers.
huh? i just searched flash jaedong and bisu.. 11 13 12
savior has 9
or do you mean as in this moment? if so flash also has 9 and i haven't checked more than those 3 pretty wierd statement, anyway i think if he can keep this up he can get even higher. Why not, if he plays like this he can take down anyone. Just wanna see him in some BoX soon!!
What would you intepret the word "active" as? Of course I mean at the moment. And I don't understand where you got your 9 from, since Flash is on a 8-game win streak.
I would have said ongoing win streak or something but whatever. I misunderstood you. yes he has the longest for now. thats good.
ah yes he's on 8 winstreak;) omg flash allkilling stx and lecaf is unbelievable.
On February 12 2009 23:50 Shikyo wrote: Maybe the 50th time will work: Savior for at least 10. spot next week, please =P I think he has the longest active win streak out of all the progamers.
huh? i just searched flash jaedong and bisu.. 11 13 12
savior has 9
or do you mean as in this moment? if so flash also has 9 and i haven't checked more than those 3 pretty wierd statement, anyway i think if he can keep this up he can get even higher. Why not, if he plays like this he can take down anyone. Just wanna see him in some BoX soon!!
What would you intepret the word "active" as? Of course I mean at the moment. And I don't understand where you got your 9 from, since Flash is on a 8-game win streak.
I would have said ongoing win streak or something but whatever. I misunderstood you. yes he has the longest for now. thats good.
ah yes he's on 8 winstreak;) omg flash allkilling stx and lecaf is unbelievable.
Flash is getting damn many wins during a very short period of time because of the WL, but I really hope that KTF coach would give him a break. We all know what happened the last time he played 10 games a week.
I seriously think Flash read the power rankings, especially the 'I just can't help but feel that Flash is not so much the "Ultimate Weapon" as he is just a really good player.' - part, and now he's out to show everyone how wrong this statement is =)
On February 12 2009 23:03 Dazed_Spy wrote: im just so fucking happy with all the talent lately. A few months ago it seemed everyone was bad or inconsistent. Bisu is a god atm. Jaedong is amazing atm. Flash is a god, Leta is a Demi god. Jangbi is amazing atm. Hwasin and Luxury are fucking great. Savior is doing fantastic, as is July.
It brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it?
yes
Lot of talent gives us lot of histories and rivalries ! Something to remember in this era I want a flash vs Jaedong in MSL and a bisu vs Flash in OSL, epic match, drama and ceremony ^^
On February 12 2009 23:03 Dazed_Spy wrote: im just so fucking happy with all the talent lately. A few months ago it seemed everyone was bad or inconsistent. Bisu is a god atm. Jaedong is amazing atm. Flash is a god, Leta is a Demi god. Jangbi is amazing atm. Hwasin and Luxury are fucking great. Savior is doing fantastic, as is July.
It brings tears to your eyes, doesn't it?
yes
Lot of talent gives us lot of histories and rivalries ! Something to remember in this era I want a flash vs Jaedong in MSL and a bisu vs Flash in OSL, epic match, drama and ceremony ^^
Unfortunately we won't get a Flash vs JD in MSL because JD is already out.
Next week will tell us a lot about who's going to be #1 in March. Flash might lose against Leta/Best and bomb out of the MSL/OSL. Or he could advance in both and look stronger than ever in proleague.
Edit: Also, his all-important game with Best is on the same day as a KTF match against Estro. Please, KTF coaches, just once give him an off-day in proleague in advance.
On February 13 2009 22:23 SimonB wrote: Next week will tell us a lot about who's going to be #1 in March. Flash might lose against Leta/Best and bomb out of the MSL/OSL. Or he could advance in both and look stronger than ever in proleague.
Edit: Also, his all-important game with Best is on the same day as a KTF match against Estro. Please, KTF coaches, just once give him an off-day in proleague in advance.
Oh god, KTF coach had better not fuck this one up. I hope they can beat eSTRO without Flash. If they can't.. oh god. Imagine estro going up to 3-0 and then Flash all-killing, involving a few hour-long TvTs and TvPs.
On February 13 2009 22:23 SimonB wrote: Next week will tell us a lot about who's going to be #1 in March. Flash might lose against Leta/Best and bomb out of the MSL/OSL. Or he could advance in both and look stronger than ever in proleague.
Edit: Also, his all-important game with Best is on the same day as a KTF match against Estro. Please, KTF coaches, just once give him an off-day in proleague in advance.
Oh god, KTF coach had better not fuck this one up. I hope they can beat eSTRO without Flash. If they can't.. oh god. Imagine estro going up to 3-0 and then Flash all-killing, involving a few hour-long TvTs and TvPs.
Flash should be # 1 next month he is dominating everywhere right now and i don't see him losing to Leta or Best ....
On February 13 2009 22:23 SimonB wrote: Next week will tell us a lot about who's going to be #1 in March. Flash might lose against Leta/Best and bomb out of the MSL/OSL. Or he could advance in both and look stronger than ever in proleague.
Edit: Also, his all-important game with Best is on the same day as a KTF match against Estro. Please, KTF coaches, just once give him an off-day in proleague in advance.
Oh god, KTF coach had better not fuck this one up. I hope they can beat eSTRO without Flash. If they can't.. oh god. Imagine estro going up to 3-0 and then Flash all-killing, involving a few hour-long TvTs and TvPs.
Flash should be # 1 next month he is dominating everywhere right now and i don't see him losing to Leta or Best ....
But you can see,these games will be this month. Unfortunately the PR doesn't depend on what you see,but on what happens. Anyway,if he advances,he should be no1.
What Flash is doing these days is just insane. 9 wins in one week and all against top opponents. I can't even express how impressed I am. And he shows such a maturity in his interviews.
On February 13 2009 22:23 SimonB wrote: Next week will tell us a lot about who's going to be #1 in March. Flash might lose against Leta/Best and bomb out of the MSL/OSL. Or he could advance in both and look stronger than ever in proleague.
Edit: Also, his all-important game with Best is on the same day as a KTF match against Estro. Please, KTF coaches, just once give him an off-day in proleague in advance.
Oh god, KTF coach had better not fuck this one up. I hope they can beat eSTRO without Flash. If they can't.. oh god. Imagine estro going up to 3-0 and then Flash all-killing, involving a few hour-long TvTs and TvPs.
Flash should be # 1 next month he is dominating everywhere right now and i don't see him losing to Leta or Best ....
On February 14 2009 01:57 raga4ka wrote: Flash should be # 1 next month he is dominating everywhere right now and i don't see him losing to Leta or Best ....
Bisu?
...huh? He's referring to the upcoming OSL and MSL matches.
On February 14 2009 01:57 raga4ka wrote: Flash should be # 1 next month he is dominating everywhere right now and i don't see him losing to Leta or Best ....
Bisu?
...huh? He's referring to the upcoming OSL and MSL matches.
I think it's a pretty tough call between Bisu and Flash right now. I'd put the Revolutionist at #1 but hey, I'm biased. Luckily we have some more games to see from them before we make a decision.
It would more come down to how much you want to value Bisu winning the GSL. Flash has been putting out a lot more wins, but Bisu won a tournament. Since 2/2/09 (the date of this PR), Flash has gone 14-2 and Bisu has gone 6-3.
On February 14 2009 08:51 Origami wrote: It would more come down to how much you want to value Bisu winning the GSL. Flash has been putting out a lot more wins, but Bisu won a tournament. Since 2/2/09 (the date of this PR), Flash has gone 14-2 and Bisu has gone 6-3.
True, but you also have to consider the fact that Bisu beat Flash not too long ago in a Bo3 (in terms of placing one over the other). Leta-esque winning but no recent title doesn't deserve a #1 spot IMO, as shown by Leta's recent losses in the individual leagues. This is all my opinion obviously, but Leta could still prove me wrong and Bisu OR Flash could both fuck up majorly and lose the #1 spot potential. The way I think of it, TODAY Bisu is #1 for me. What happens tomorrow, in a week, or in two is anyone's guess.
I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
The PR is only about how good a player is playing at the time it is released. Winning titles are only a consequence of good play. The inverse is not always true. I don't think the title will factor into PR placement, but Bisu's performance during the finals will. Though it's unclear who's performed better so far (gameplay-wise, not titles).
On February 14 2009 09:25 zhaoli86 wrote: Does winning a title not mean anything any more? Am I missing something here..
Keep in mind a few things: 1. Flash had one of the best team league weeks ever if not THE best. 2. Flash is in both leagues and looks pretty good to advance to the Ro8 in both (no small feat). 3. Bisu would be eliminated from both starleagues if not for some luck (admittedly though with some skill as well).
That all said, I still think it's quite close, and the Bo3 win over Flash is significant for Bisu, though I think people have already forgotten how incredibly close every single game was (especially the last where 2 DTs completely saved Bisu's ass) and it was generally on Protoss favored maps.
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
How many games were lost by players of relatively equal skill BECAUSE of map imbalance? How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
The Bisu-Flash series was in the beginning of January, I don't see why you would factor that into a PR for February. Besides, it's not like you can look at that and go "Man, if those two played right now Bisu would rape the hell out of Flash!".
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
And what?
edit: I mean, I actually support Bisu for nr. 1 (for now), but I don't see why we should restrict ourselves only for GSL when talking about player ability to cope with imbalanced maps...
On February 14 2009 10:58 Rostam wrote: The Bisu-Flash series was in the beginning of January, I don't see why you would factor that into a PR for February. Besides, it's not like you can look at that and go "Man, if those two played right now Bisu would rape the hell out of Flash!".
It was their most recent encounter, and when considering them as equals for #1, the series was not SO far off to make it a weak reference. Did I ever say Bisu was a clear favorite?
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
And what?
edit: I mean, I actually support Bisu for nr. 1 (for now), but I don't see why we should restrict ourselves only for GSL when talking about player ability to cope with imbalanced maps...
Because I was responding to his post about the GSL..
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
And what?
edit: I mean, I actually support Bisu for nr. 1 (for now), but I don't see why we should restrict ourselves only for GSL when talking about player ability to cope with imbalanced maps...
Because I was responding to his post about the GSL..
And I was refering to this topic from greater perspective. I bet this isn't the first time somebody did it there, is it?
I think PR should reflect this as well. And if we are comparing Flash with Bisu in that aspect (coping with map imbalance), Flash is definitely more impresive.
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
And what?
edit: I mean, I actually support Bisu for nr. 1 (for now), but I don't see why we should restrict ourselves only for GSL when talking about player ability to cope with imbalanced maps...
Because I was responding to his post about the GSL..
And I was refering to this topic from greater perspective. I bet this isn't the first time somebody did it there, is it?
I think PR should reflect this as well. And if we are comparing Flash with Bisu in that aspect (coping with map imbalance), Flash is definitely more impresive.
Well then don't try to make it seem like you are countering a statement I am making... ABOUT THE GSL.
Once again I never went into specifics either, I was asking if anyone knew anyone that did that (in the GSL). Also, Katrina is irrelevant to the current PR. By a long shot.
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
On February 14 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: I think that you have to take into account the insurmountable map imbalance in the GSL, making Bisu's victory more of a battle among the Protoss. Flash being an exception, of course.
And what?
edit: I mean, I actually support Bisu for nr. 1 (for now), but I don't see why we should restrict ourselves only for GSL when talking about player ability to cope with imbalanced maps...
Because I was responding to his post about the GSL..
And I was refering to this topic from greater perspective. I bet this isn't the first time somebody did it there, is it?
I think PR should reflect this as well. And if we are comparing Flash with Bisu in that aspect (coping with map imbalance), Flash is definitely more impresive.
Well then don't try to make it seem like you are countering a statement I am making... ABOUT THE GSL.
Once again I never went into specifics either, I was asking if anyone knew anyone that did that (in the GSL). Also, Katrina is irrelevant to the current PR. By a long shot.
Then look at TvP on Medusa without Flash and Flash stats on that map.
On February 14 2009 10:58 Rostam wrote: The Bisu-Flash series was in the beginning of January, I don't see why you would factor that into a PR for February. Besides, it's not like you can look at that and go "Man, if those two played right now Bisu would rape the hell out of Flash!".
It was their most recent encounter, and when considering them as equals for #1, the series was not SO far off to make it a weak reference. Did I ever say Bisu was a clear favorite?
Well if it doesn't indicate him as a clear favorite then I don't understand why we should really consider it. There's already ELO and KeSPA for statistical rankings, shouldn't PR be about who's playing best and not what the players' records against each other are? I would think their performances in leagues this month will be different enough that whoever makes the next PR wouldn't have to refer to an old series as any kind of tiebreaker.
Flash deserves # 1 far more then Bisu right now the kid is dominating everywhere , and Bisu let his team down in WL vs MBC/Light on Andromeda of all maps ... Not to mention Flash all - killing Oz and semi - all - killing STX ....When will Bisu do something as amazing as that ?
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
Tears of the Moon is 11-2 ZvP. That is, btw, worse than Mercury's 14-4 ZvP, or Monty Hall's 11-5 PvZ, to name some infamous maps. As for the two wins, I didn't watch Backho's game. But Kal's win was an unexpected one-base timing attack, which is unlikely to work in the future now that zergs know protoss can't FE on the map.
So how is Bisu wrong?
As for Bisu vs Flash in GOM, it was one protoss favored map(Medusa which Flash won), one terran favored map(sin-Chupuny-Ryeong which Flash lost because he fucked up his timing push) and one slightly protoss favored map(Destination where Bisu simply outplayed him).
While GOM maps were protoss favored, you can't blame Flash's loss on it, especially since he WON on the map that was heavily favored against him.
Come on,stop arguing,there is still half month left. Flash can be fired from both leagues in a matter of days,while Bisu is 90% qualified in the OSL. At least give time for him to get his response at Flash's dominance. If Bisu can perform an all-kill,for which he has plenty of time this month,can beat JD in impressive fashion in Gom and Flash will be eliminated from at least one league,I don't see no reason why Bisu couldn't be no1. Of course,as things are standing right now,Flash is clearly the no1. But damn,there is still half of a month,and a player can fall 4 spots in the PR in one single day,so I don't see why debating who should be no1 this early.
Flash has been playing good, but people have been acting like Bisu has started to drop off since the last rank? He 3-1ed Jangbi, he went 6-0 in the OSL tiebreakers, and is currently 2-0 in his OSL Group of Death (wins over both Stork and July). Flash/Bisu should be #1 and #2, I just don't know what order, but it isn't clear cut for either side. Flash finishing his series with Leta, both of their remaining OSL groups, and Bisu vs Jaedong will tell us alot about which one deserves #1 more.
On February 14 2009 18:46 Sentenal wrote: Flash has been playing good, but people have been acting like Bisu has started to drop off since the last rank? He 3-1ed Jangbi, he went 6-0 in the OSL tiebreakers, and is currently 2-0 in his OSL Group of Death (wins over both Stork and July). Flash/Bisu should be #1 and #2, I just don't know what order, but it isn't clear cut for either side. Flash finishing his series with Leta, both of their remaining OSL groups, and Bisu vs Jaedong will tell us alot about which one deserves #1 more.
your sig should be "scan for carriers", they don't even have to scout! j/k
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
Tears of the Moon is 11-2 ZvP. That is, btw, worse than Mercury's 14-4 ZvP, or Monty Hall's 11-5 PvZ, to name some infamous maps. As for the two wins, I didn't watch Backho's game. But Kal's win was an unexpected one-base timing attack, which is unlikely to work in the future now that zergs know protoss can't FE on the map.
So how is Bisu wrong?
As for Bisu vs Flash in GOM, it was one protoss favored map(Medusa which Flash won), one terran favored map(sin-Chupuny-Ryeong which Flash lost because he fucked up his timing push) and one slightly protoss favored map(Destination where Bisu simply outplayed him).
While GOM maps were protoss favored, you can't blame Flash's loss on it, especially since he WON on the map that was heavily favored against him.
He asked how many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance. And I replied, that definitely not Bisu...not because he lost, but the way he did it. He tried to play totally standard, no deviation, no creativity, nothing. I've never questioned the ZvP imbalance of Tears...
And how is he wrong?? The major problem I have here is his bitching that he lost the SECOND game because he was in shock. What the hell?? If he though Tears were such an imbalanced maps, why he didn't practice for the next two maps? How could he be thrown out of balance if he knew that Tears were so imba?
It was BO3 and Tears were only the first map. I would expect more tactics and mental strenght from player of his caliber. I had a great respect for Bisu, but I lost a big amount of it after that interview.
And Flash vs Bisu - don't try to compare the imbalance of Medusa with Sin-Chupung. Medusa is much worse than Sin-Chupung could ever be. It's more like you have one Protoss heaven (Medusa) and two reasonably imbalanced (if there even is such thing) maps (Sin and Destination). With Flash schedule it isn't impossible to imagine, that he trained more on Medusa (because that map is almost in every league) and hoped he could take the win on Sin-Chupung or Destination. It's very speculative...but wait, did I somewhere blame the Flash loss in GOM on maps??
On February 14 2009 10:58 Rostam wrote: The Bisu-Flash series was in the beginning of January, I don't see why you would factor that into a PR for February. Besides, it's not like you can look at that and go "Man, if those two played right now Bisu would rape the hell out of Flash!".
It was their most recent encounter, and when considering them as equals for #1, the series was not SO far off to make it a weak reference. Did I ever say Bisu was a clear favorite?
Well if it doesn't indicate him as a clear favorite then I don't understand why we should really consider it. There's already ELO and KeSPA for statistical rankings, shouldn't PR be about who's playing best and not what the players' records against each other are? I would think their performances in leagues this month will be different enough that whoever makes the next PR wouldn't have to refer to an old series as any kind of tiebreaker.
Because although their comparative skill vs. each other TODAY is arguable, their most recent encounter (which was relatively recent) places Bisu above Flash. Fact.
This is the deciding factor, for TODAY, if we consider Bisu and Flash to be 50/50 in taking the #1 rank. I am not talking about making the decision now for the PR 2 weeks from now. I am saying that if the PR were made TODAY, Bisu should be #1 over Flash, if for no better reason than their most recent series (once again, assuming we value their achievements equally outside of this).
On February 14 2009 18:19 Darth Peter wrote: Come on,stop arguing,there is still half month left. Flash can be fired from both leagues in a matter of days,while Bisu is 90% qualified in the OSL. At least give time for him to get his response at Flash's dominance. If Bisu can perform an all-kill,for which he has plenty of time this month,can beat JD in impressive fashion in Gom and Flash will be eliminated from at least one league,I don't see no reason why Bisu couldn't be no1. Of course,as things are standing right now,Flash is clearly the no1. But damn,there is still half of a month,and a player can fall 4 spots in the PR in one single day,so I don't see why debating who should be no1 this early.
I personally value titles greater than WL domination. Why? The pressure increases exponentially from WL -> Individual leagues -> quarterfinals -> semifinals -> finals. The stakes are much higher. The selection of opponent (usually) is the cream of the crop in many stages of the tournament, if not the finals. The series involves mind games and other BoX factors. WL is limited in that department. Thus winning a league to me is more impressive than all-killing ACE (rofl) and some relative no-names. Not saying he didn't beat good players; he did. But it's not like those players had to go through an elimination tournament to face him, and neither did he (well, you can make an argument that WL is kind of similar to an elimination tournament, but once again the pressure is not nearly the same, even at 3-3 tie breaker).
Of course, if either player can do both, they are the clear favorite. But fact is fact; Bisu won a league. Flash did not. Flash has a good WL record. Bisu's record is less impressive but still present, with a 75% winrate (as far as I recall). That makes my choice for #1, TODAY, obvious.
Some people, like you, seem to value WL all-kills over tournament titles, and I would like to hear a case for that. In my opinion, that is just exaggerating the reality. I disagree whole-heartedly. But for the sake of the previous argument, I assumed the compromise that they are 50/50 right now.
Like I said previously, things can change drastically in the next few weeks, but as for the here and now, Bisu is a step above Flash in getting #1.
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
Tears of the Moon is 11-2 ZvP. That is, btw, worse than Mercury's 14-4 ZvP, or Monty Hall's 11-5 PvZ, to name some infamous maps. As for the two wins, I didn't watch Backho's game. But Kal's win was an unexpected one-base timing attack, which is unlikely to work in the future now that zergs know protoss can't FE on the map.
So how is Bisu wrong?
As for Bisu vs Flash in GOM, it was one protoss favored map(Medusa which Flash won), one terran favored map(sin-Chupuny-Ryeong which Flash lost because he fucked up his timing push) and one slightly protoss favored map(Destination where Bisu simply outplayed him).
While GOM maps were protoss favored, you can't blame Flash's loss on it, especially since he WON on the map that was heavily favored against him.
He asked how many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance. And I replied, that definitely not Bisu...not because he lost, but the way he did it. He tried to play totally standard, no deviation, no creativity, nothing. I've never questioned the ZvP imbalance of Tears...
And how is he wrong?? The major problem I have here is his bitching that he lost the SECOND game because he was in shock. What the hell?? If he though Tears were such an imbalanced maps, why he didn't practice for the next two maps? How could he be thrown out of balance if he knew that Tears were so imba?
It was BO3 and Tears were only the first map. I would expect more tactics and mental strenght from player of his caliber. I had a great respect for Bisu, but I lost a big amount of it after that interview.
And Flash vs Bisu - don't try to compare the imbalance of Medusa with Sin-Chupung. Medusa is much worse than Sin-Chupung could ever be. It's more like you have one Protoss heaven (Medusa) and two reasonably imbalanced (if there even is such thing) maps (Sin and Destination). With Flash schedule it isn't impossible to imagine, that he trained more on Medusa (because that map is almost in every league) and hoped he could take the win on Sin-Chupung or Destination. It's very speculative...but wait, did I somewhere blame the Flash loss in GOM on maps??
You clearly underestimate the importance of mind games. Why do you think people cheese in the first game of a Bo5 like Stork/July did? It's to get a mental edge. Your mental state is just as important if not moreso than your tactics and strategy and mechanics in this game. The best PvZ getting raped so brutally on a new map - that is like a knife to the mind of anyone. If I beat you in a humiliating fashion at your reputedly best matchup (not as true for Bisu anymore, but it's not that bad either), would you feel confident in our next match? No. Similar concept applies. He explained his reason for not performing in the next match, due to very understandable reasons. Get over it.
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
On February 15 2009 01:46 fanatacist wrote: Sin Chupung Reyung PvT: 5-8 (38.5%) Medusa PvT: 35-14 (71.4%) Destination PvT: 28-22 (56%)
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
(38.5+71.4+56)/300 = 165.9/300 = .553
I'd say that is pretty balanced.
Your not weighting it by number of games played (not that would have any direct result on the number you got, but it would change the conclusion considerably). The odds of protoss equalizing the stats (assuming equal players in each game) on Sin Chupung Reyung are 1/8 if it really is perfectly balanced, similarly terrans coming back on Destination is 1/64. However the odds of Medusa ever seeing balanced stats TvP is 1/2097152. So essentially we have 1 fairly balanced map, 1 nearly completely unknown map, and one that clearly has a protoss bias, yet you are counting the stats as equal anyway.
Also due to sample size differences the terran bias of Sin Chupung ~ the protoss bias of destination.
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
(38.5+71.4+56)/300 = 165.9/300 = .553
I'd say that is pretty balanced.
That's a pretty spurious argument. Do you honestly think Sin Chupung's 5-8 shows any kind of the imbalance that the records for the other two maps demonstrate? Hell, if you use just plain Chupung Ryeong (which is almost the same map except the area behind the natural isn't as big), you get a 19-10 record in favor of Protoss.
I'm not dismissing Bisu's win over Flash as nothing, but it was very very close, and the map balance was significantly on the Protoss side (and Flash fucked up and didn't notice two DTs until a few seconds too late which almost assuredly cost him the game on Destination).
*useless quote* Because GSL's map pool is clearly the most imbalanced one I've seen in a long time.
EDIT: And I don't necessarily mean the later maps. But the map pool in the ro64 and ro32 and such that eliminated all the Zergs and nearly all the Terrans was horrendous. Please don't look at the final or semifinal map pool, that's not what I'm talking about.
Tears of the moon is just to balance maps like, dare I say, BYZANTIUM?
I don't know about people attempting to overcome imbalances... I don't know what you mean, really. Cheesing? If so, that's what many T's did vs P on Neo Requiem(worst map ever).
On February 15 2009 01:46 fanatacist wrote: Sin Chupung Reyung PvT: 5-8 (38.5%) Medusa PvT: 35-14 (71.4%) Destination PvT: 28-22 (56%)
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
(38.5+71.4+56)/300 = 165.9/300 = .553
I'd say that is pretty balanced.
Your not weighting it by number of games played (not that would have any direct result on the number you got, but it would change the conclusion considerably). The odds of protoss equalizing the stats (assuming equal players in each game) on Sin Chupung Reyung are 1/8 if it really is perfectly balanced, similarly terrans coming back on Destination is 1/64. However the odds of Medusa ever seeing balanced stats TvP is 1/2097152. So essentially we have 1 fairly balanced map, 1 nearly completely unknown map, and one that clearly has a protoss bias, yet you are counting the stats as equal anyway.
Also due to sample size differences the terran bias of Sin Chupung ~ the protoss bias of destination.
Not really sure where you are getting these numbers from (I trust you, tentatively), but 1/8th isn't that big, and even if it were to equalize it'd just signify a change in gameflow on the map, much like how new strategies affect the development of any map (PvT on Katrina, PvZ on Destination, etc. etc.). At the time of their games, Chupung was considered a Terran-favored map. Medusa was considered a Protoss-favored map. End of story.
Of course my method isn't definitive, but it's not my fault that the amount of games played is less on one map than on another. I could make a confidence interval which would make my conclusion even more statistically sound, but that is too much work. Instead I will do this:
Sum of P wins on maps / Number of games on maps 68 / 112 = .607
Now, this would be a more accurate statistic I guess, and still not drastically imbalanced.
However, Flash won on Medusa... So if the other two maps are "unknown" and balanced in your opinion, how could Flash lose? Clearly imbalance isn't everything.
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
(38.5+71.4+56)/300 = 165.9/300 = .553
I'd say that is pretty balanced.
That's a pretty spurious argument. Do you honestly think Sin Chupung's 5-8 shows any kind of the imbalance that the records for the other two maps demonstrate? Hell, if you use just plain Chupung Ryeong (which is almost the same map except the area behind the natural isn't as big), you get a 19-10 record in favor of Protoss.
I'm not dismissing Bisu's win over Flash as nothing, but it was very very close, and the map balance was significantly on the Protoss side (and Flash fucked up and didn't notice two DTs until a few seconds too late which almost assuredly cost him the game on Destination).
Addressed above. Look at the last few lines for the response to the second part of your post.
On February 14 2009 09:57 fanatacist wrote: How many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance?
Well, definitely not Bisu, seeing how he played like total ass on Tears of the Moon and then even had the guts to blame that map for his second loss on totaly different map...
On the other hand, Flash and Katrina, that's totally diferent story...
Tears of the Moon is 11-2 ZvP. That is, btw, worse than Mercury's 14-4 ZvP, or Monty Hall's 11-5 PvZ, to name some infamous maps. As for the two wins, I didn't watch Backho's game. But Kal's win was an unexpected one-base timing attack, which is unlikely to work in the future now that zergs know protoss can't FE on the map.
So how is Bisu wrong?
As for Bisu vs Flash in GOM, it was one protoss favored map(Medusa which Flash won), one terran favored map(sin-Chupuny-Ryeong which Flash lost because he fucked up his timing push) and one slightly protoss favored map(Destination where Bisu simply outplayed him).
While GOM maps were protoss favored, you can't blame Flash's loss on it, especially since he WON on the map that was heavily favored against him.
He asked how many players tried to find ways to deal with map imbalance. And I replied, that definitely not Bisu...not because he lost, but the way he did it. He tried to play totally standard, no deviation, no creativity, nothing. I've never questioned the ZvP imbalance of Tears...
And how is he wrong?? The major problem I have here is his bitching that he lost the SECOND game because he was in shock. What the hell?? If he though Tears were such an imbalanced maps, why he didn't practice for the next two maps? How could he be thrown out of balance if he knew that Tears were so imba?
It was BO3 and Tears were only the first map. I would expect more tactics and mental strenght from player of his caliber. I had a great respect for Bisu, but I lost a big amount of it after that interview.
And Flash vs Bisu - don't try to compare the imbalance of Medusa with Sin-Chupung. Medusa is much worse than Sin-Chupung could ever be. It's more like you have one Protoss heaven (Medusa) and two reasonably imbalanced (if there even is such thing) maps (Sin and Destination). With Flash schedule it isn't impossible to imagine, that he trained more on Medusa (because that map is almost in every league) and hoped he could take the win on Sin-Chupung or Destination. It's very speculative...but wait, did I somewhere blame the Flash loss in GOM on maps??
You clearly underestimate the importance of mind games. Why do you think people cheese in the first game of a Bo5 like Stork/July did? It's to get a mental edge. Your mental state is just as important if not moreso than your tactics and strategy and mechanics in this game. The best PvZ getting raped so brutally on a new map - that is like a knife to the mind of anyone. If I beat you in a humiliating fashion at your reputedly best matchup (not as true for Bisu anymore, but it's not that bad either), would you feel confident in our next match? No. Similar concept applies. He explained his reason for not performing in the next match, due to very understandable reasons. Get over it.
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
(38.5+71.4+56)/300 = 165.9/300 = .553
I'd say that is pretty balanced.
Sorry, but you are totally wrong here - in the mind games aspect.
Situation one: I'm going to play BOX. The first map is pretty balanced so I practice mostly standard play. I practice it for hours and hours over and over. I became really good in it. I beat most of my practice partners easily. I'm really confident I can take my opponent here. And then the game come and he 4 pool/DT rush/bunker rush me and I lose. All my preparations was totally useless, the hours of training were vasted. My confidence is crushed. If he was able read me like a book in game one, what is he going to do next? THEN is totally acceptable to be mentaly shaken.
Situation two: I'm going to play BOX. The first map is total rubbish. I really try to practice hard, but then come to conclusion that this map is almost impossible for straight up standard play. What am I going to do? a) Just play standard, get raped and looking like wtf just happened here and be in SHOCK that I lost?? b) Focus on other maps (it's BOX remember) and be ready than I can really easily lost on the first one, but be prepared it can happen and be able to move on and show my best on other maps?
I think everybody can see which situation are chesses by July or Stork you mentioned and in which situation was Bisu. And everybody can also see which solution he chose...
It's not like Bisu didn't know which map they are going to play, eh? He KNEW it will be Tears, he KNEW it's imba map from his practice, and yet he got mentally shaken after the loss? It's equally stupid to sleeping with your girlfriend without any protection and then be mentally shaken she become pregnant .
Bisu's crying over loss which he could have expected and therefore mentally prepared for it was something I would expect from 12 years old player on iccup, not from one of the best toss ever. There is no excuse. Get over it.
And just to show you that you cannot use that simply math here, one counterexample: First map 33% Second map 33% Third map 100%
(33+33+100)/300 = what a surprise! 0,553...
And don't even try to tell me this BO3 is pretty balanced...
No even mention the mind games connected with it...
On February 15 2009 01:46 fanatacist wrote: Sin Chupung Reyung PvT: 5-8 (38.5%) Medusa PvT: 35-14 (71.4%) Destination PvT: 28-22 (56%)
If we go by pure statistics, the total % of the three maps combined divided by 300% SHOULD be the chance that a player of that race would beat an equal skill opponent of the opposing race. So...
(38.5+71.4+56)/300 = 165.9/300 = .553
I'd say that is pretty balanced.
Your not weighting it by number of games played (not that would have any direct result on the number you got, but it would change the conclusion considerably). The odds of protoss equalizing the stats (assuming equal players in each game) on Sin Chupung Reyung are 1/8 if it really is perfectly balanced, similarly terrans coming back on Destination is 1/64. However the odds of Medusa ever seeing balanced stats TvP is 1/2097152. So essentially we have 1 fairly balanced map, 1 nearly completely unknown map, and one that clearly has a protoss bias, yet you are counting the stats as equal anyway.
Also due to sample size differences the terran bias of Sin Chupung ~ the protoss bias of destination.
Not really sure where you are getting these numbers from (I trust you, tentatively), but 1/8th isn't that big, and even if it were to equalize it'd just signify a change in gameflow on the map, much like how new strategies affect the development of any map (PvT on Katrina, PvZ on Destination, etc. etc.). At the time of their games, Chupung was considered a Terran-favored map. Medusa was considered a Protoss-favored map. End of story.
1/8 is genuinely ginormous when compared to 1/2000000 something. Do you know basic statistics, the game differences on destination and sin chupung reyung aren't statistically significant at any reasonable level, while medusa's imbalance is statically significant at the .05 level (p was actually .02 or .03 compared to ~.4 for the other 2). Saying sin chupung reyung cancels out Medusa is simply absurd.
Of course my method isn't definitive, but it's not my fault that the amount of games played is less on one map than on another. I could make a confidence interval which would make my conclusion even more statistically sound, but that is too much work. Instead I will do this:
Yes it is, you must select analysis techniques that work with idiosyncrasies in your data, like maps with different numbers of games played.
Sum of P wins on maps / Number of games on maps 68 / 112 = .607
Now, this would be a more accurate statistic I guess, and still not drastically imbalanced.
This is a much fairer statistic, and the fact you don't think 60% win rate is "drastically imbalanced" is insane.
However, Flash won on Medusa... So if the other two maps are "unknown" and balanced in your opinion, how could Flash lose? Clearly imbalance isn't everything.
I was never arguing for flash I was arguing against your crime against statistics.
Full disclosure: I am a Flash fanboy, but that does not invalidate the flaws I pointed out. As for Bisu vs. Flash for top player right now we'll see.
The point is... the map pool atm isn't even that bad, see, was it, the Ro32 pool for example... Medusa, Neo Requiem and... what was the third map? Doesn't matter, though, even Rush Hour 3 couldn't make it balanced with those 2 maps in there. I think it was something like Chupung Ryeong, which was P>T as well.
I believe Bisu's accomplishments up to this point in the month are greater than Flash's and I argued this point. I stick to this point until I see overwhelming evidence otherwise, or in future games.
In terms of Flash vs. Bisu, we will see soon again, I hope, but right now the Bo3 is the clearest example in my mind.
On February 16 2009 10:25 traced wrote: It's February 15th, guys. There's still at least two weeks until the next PR. Let's just wait until we have some more evidence.
Someone said you shouldn't take into account Bisu/Flash in GOM - are you kidding? You might as well not even count the OSL or MSL group stages.
It's hard to weigh Bisu vs Flash at the moment. Bisu + Show Spoiler +
loses random games against people like Guemchi, hero, Zero, and Light; all of whom are decent or even excellent (particularly the last two), but I want more from a #1 PR. His recent record is quite spotty.
Flash just wins in everything, as evidenced by his insane 9-game streak against top-notch players (Jaedong, ForGG, Kal, Hwasin x2, Leta).
But... Bisu won GOM. And beat Flash along the way. I think any call made between them right now has to be a bit subjective, depending on what you value. Do you feel that winning a league is the final argument? Bisu wins. Are you looking at how impressive their 10 most recent games are? Flash wins. Do you care which of the two beat the other in a series? Bisu wins. Do you care about winner's league ... at all? Flash wins.
Basically the only way to make this call is to decide on what criteria are most important to the PR, because each of the two players has strong qualifications that the other lacks at the moment. Of course, hopefully the next two weeks will clear things up a bit.
On February 17 2009 07:31 Djabanete wrote: It's hard to weigh Bisu vs Flash at the moment. Bisu + Show Spoiler +
loses random games against people like Guemchi, hero, Zero, and Light; all of whom are decent or even excellent (particularly the last two), but I want more from a #1 PR. His recent record is quite spotty.
Flash just wins in everything, as evidenced by his insane 9-game streak against top-notch players (Jaedong, ForGG, Kal, Hwasin x2, Leta).
But... Bisu won GOM. And beat Flash along the way. I think any call made between them right now has to be a bit subjective, depending on what you value. Do you feel that winning a league is the final argument? Bisu wins. Are you looking at how impressive their 10 most recent games are? Flash wins. Do you care which of the two beat the other in a series? Bisu wins. Do you care about winner's league ... at all? Flash wins.
Basically the only way to make this call is to decide on what criteria are most important to the PR, because each of the two players has strong qualifications that the other lacks at the moment. Of course, hopefully the next two weeks will clear things up a bit.
that's an excellent way of putting it.. I couldn't have said it better myself.
On February 17 2009 07:31 Djabanete wrote: It's hard to weigh Bisu vs Flash at the moment. Bisu + Show Spoiler +
loses random games against people like Guemchi, hero, Zero, and Light; all of whom are decent or even excellent (particularly the last two), but I want more from a #1 PR. His recent record is quite spotty.
Flash just wins in everything, as evidenced by his insane 9-game streak against top-notch players (Jaedong, ForGG, Kal, Hwasin x2, Leta).
But... Bisu won GOM. And beat Flash along the way. I think any call made between them right now has to be a bit subjective, depending on what you value. Do you feel that winning a league is the final argument? Bisu wins. Are you looking at how impressive their 10 most recent games are? Flash wins. Do you care which of the two beat the other in a series? Bisu wins. Do you care about winner's league ... at all? Flash wins.
Basically the only way to make this call is to decide on what criteria are most important to the PR, because each of the two players has strong qualifications that the other lacks at the moment. Of course, hopefully the next two weeks will clear things up a bit.
This.
Of course, I think that if you're saying that the PR is about who is scariest NOW, then Flash has to have the upper edge. Flash has simply been unstoppable, doing ridiculous things in WL. He's on a 9-game winstreak, and if you look at his recent games list it contains half of the candidates for the rest of the PR. All on a crazy schedule including 2 leagues and carrying his team practically solo.
Bisu just doesn't have the same kind of recent results. Yes he's winning, and winning a lot, but he's played relatively few S-class gamers and has dropped games that he really shouldn't.
Basically, in my mind, I have some (very small) doubts about Bisu's recent ability, while any lingering doubts about Flash's invincibility are gone. Bisu would probably be the only player that might be considered a favorite over Flash (it would be incredibly close), but Flash is playing all three match-ups like a monster and is putting up results and consistency on probably the most difficult schedule ever.
On February 17 2009 07:31 Djabanete wrote: It's hard to weigh Bisu vs Flash at the moment. Bisu + Show Spoiler +
loses random games against people like Guemchi, hero, Zero, and Light; all of whom are decent or even excellent (particularly the last two), but I want more from a #1 PR. His recent record is quite spotty.
Flash just wins in everything, as evidenced by his insane 9-game streak against top-notch players (Jaedong, ForGG, Kal, Hwasin x2, Leta).
But... Bisu won GOM. And beat Flash along the way. I think any call made between them right now has to be a bit subjective, depending on what you value. Do you feel that winning a league is the final argument? Bisu wins. Are you looking at how impressive their 10 most recent games are? Flash wins. Do you care which of the two beat the other in a series? Bisu wins. Do you care about winner's league ... at all? Flash wins.
Basically the only way to make this call is to decide on what criteria are most important to the PR, because each of the two players has strong qualifications that the other lacks at the moment. Of course, hopefully the next two weeks will clear things up a bit.
<fanboy rant> Back when Bisu just won MSL and Stork the OSL, there was a large debate on whether Bisu or Stork should be #1 on the PR EVEN THOUGH Stork had an abysmal proleague record (I think around 25% win rate starting from the OSL victory to the next PR). It was as if everyone basically ignored the PL record and the most recent games of Stork (which should have hurt him immensely), or at least put very little weight to it. The deciding factor is Bisu's BO3 over Stork on that special even, but prior to that, the argument was basically in a stalemate.
So unless the PR all of the sudden changed its criteria for some reason, the individual leagues and face-offs hold much more weight than PL/WL and most recent games. </end fanboy rant>
On February 17 2009 07:31 Djabanete wrote: It's hard to weigh Bisu vs Flash at the moment. Bisu + Show Spoiler +
loses random games against people like Guemchi, hero, Zero, and Light; all of whom are decent or even excellent (particularly the last two), but I want more from a #1 PR. His recent record is quite spotty.
Flash just wins in everything, as evidenced by his insane 9-game streak against top-notch players (Jaedong, ForGG, Kal, Hwasin x2, Leta).
But... Bisu won GOM. And beat Flash along the way. I think any call made between them right now has to be a bit subjective, depending on what you value. Do you feel that winning a league is the final argument? Bisu wins. Are you looking at how impressive their 10 most recent games are? Flash wins. Do you care which of the two beat the other in a series? Bisu wins. Do you care about winner's league ... at all? Flash wins.
Basically the only way to make this call is to decide on what criteria are most important to the PR, because each of the two players has strong qualifications that the other lacks at the moment. Of course, hopefully the next two weeks will clear things up a bit.
<fanboy rant> Back when Bisu just won MSL and Stork the OSL, there was a large debate on whether Bisu or Stork should be #1 on the PR EVEN THOUGH Stork had an abysmal proleague record (I think around 25% win rate starting from the OSL victory to the next PR). It was as if everyone basically ignored the PL record and the most recent games of Stork (which should have hurt him immensely), or at least put very little weight to it. The deciding factor is Bisu's BO3 over Stork on that special even, but prior to that, the argument was basically in a stalemate.
So unless the PR all of the sudden changed its criteria for some reason, the individual leagues and face-offs hold much more weight than PL/WL and most recent games. </end fanboy rant>
As a Flash fanboy I agree with you
Bisu #1 Flash #2
Which isn't really saying much. I mean Flash still gets praise for at least being #2. Of course the rankings will change depending if Flash wins the MSL or OSL.
Well, Flash is currently doing Better in the individual category and WL. The criteria for PR is who is playing better, and Individual titles are a consequence of great play, but does not constitute it, and in turn, a higher placement in the PR. Flash is rolling most of his opponents, S-class too, while Bisu is putting up great tense games, but not the dominance that is needed to pass Flash atm.
On February 17 2009 12:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, Flash is currently doing Better in the individual category and WL. The criteria for PR is who is playing better, and Individual titles are a consequence of great play, but does not constitute it, and in turn, a higher placement in the PR. Flash is rolling most of his opponents, S-class too, while Bisu is putting up great tense games, but not the dominance that is needed to pass Flash atm.
Although I agree with your last sentence, I'm not sure about your first two. How is Flash doing better in SL's than Bisu?
Also, the criteria for the PR should take into account great play not just from this month, but the months before. Many people have said this for a very long time now, Fakesteve among them. Flash is only showing better play over Bisu recently, but if you extend before that you can see Bisu holding a more impressive history, including beating Flash in a BO3 and in proleague.
edit: Oops, not FakeSteve. It was actually OneOther. Sorry!
On February 17 2009 12:22 p4fn2w wrote: Although I agree with your last sentence, I'm not sure about your first two. How is Flash doing better in SL's than Bisu?
Well...Flash is in both MSL and OSL, Bisu is only in OSL. Of course, there's still two more weeks in the month for things to happen.
On February 17 2009 12:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, Flash is currently doing Better in the individual category and WL. The criteria for PR is who is playing better, and Individual titles are a consequence of great play, but does not constitute it, and in turn, a higher placement in the PR. Flash is rolling most of his opponents, S-class too, while Bisu is putting up great tense games, but not the dominance that is needed to pass Flash atm.
Although I agree with your last sentence, I'm not sure about your first two. How is Flash doing better in SL's than Bisu?
Also, the criteria for the PR should take into account great play not just from this month, but the months before. Many people have said this for a very long time now, Fakesteve among them. Flash is only showing better play over Bisu recently, but if you extend before that you can see Bisu holding a more impressive history, including beating Flash in a BO3 and in proleague.
Yeah Bisu is 2-0 in OSL while Flash is 1-1. But Bisu is out of the MSL, so that accounts for something. His W-L ratio is very good beating S-class players and he is the GOM TV champion. Bisu should be #1 and Flash #2.
'Like his brother, he has the ability to produce an epic streak or an epic fail. Hopefully for Park Myung Soo fans, this is just the beginning of something special.'
Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =).
You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
Some people: Flash #1!! Other people: Bisu #1!! Some people: lol come on, obviously Flash #1!! Other people: omg Bisu!
So much could happen in the next couple days. Leta and Best are still very very good players. I'm nervous about Flash's OSL match. It all depends on one game. At least he's up one game in his series against Leta.
On February 17 2009 13:24 p4fn2w wrote: Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =).
it is the monthly power rank not the quarterly power rank or the biannual power rank
(order arguable, I would put Bisu on top, because his PvZ looks strong again and he managed to win the GSL, but Flash and JD have shown some great games, too) Savior @ 4/5 Now people get that Leta isn't that great... Most rid. #1 ever, it was obvious before anyway... Mediocre TvP, lost 4 of his last 5 TvTs, very good TvZ, but evidentially forGG is still the king of this MU; don't want to take anything away from him, but it'll take a huge step forward to make him a champion.
On February 17 2009 21:42 Polar_Bear wrote: top3: Bisu, Flash, Jaedong + Show Spoiler +
another all-kill today
(order arguable, I would put Bisu on top, because his PvZ looks strong again and he managed to win the GSL, but Flash and JD have shown some great games, too) Savior @ 4/5 Now people get that Leta isn't that great... Most rid. #1 ever, it was obvious before anyway... Mediocre TvP, lost 4 of his last 5 TvTs, very good TvZ, but evidentially forGG is still the king of this MU; don't want to take anything away from him, but it'll take a huge step forward to make him a champion.
Don't be putting Bisu above Jaedong or Flash till JD vs BISU Bo5 that is incoming . If Flash makes his OSL and MSL Ro8 soundly he definitely should be # 1 with the dominance over the leagues he is showing . Bisu gets some points for a GOM tittle and a good series vs JangBI , but he is nowhere near Flash/JD in WL and losses some points in that aspect . Bisu would be # 1 given if he advances in his OSL group ( he has almost advanced ) beats Jaedong in GOM's "battle of who's best" and if Flash crashes in at least 1 of the leagues .
I agree with Leta . He is not ready to be # 1 for a longer period of time in the PR ( prove me wrong Leta ) .
I'm not excited about JD's all kills. I think he is doing just fine, considering his losses to flash (no shame about that, the ktf kid is way better now), questionable performance vs hwasin in MSL, his usual zvz dominance and zvp win over kal on a map that is 11-2 in this MU. Flash is the current #1 without any question. Bisu...bisu had his typical hangover after his domination over jangbi and managed to drop some WL games but besides that he is still a dominant force, he is over the 2300 elo mark for almost two months now. But yeah the match vs Jaedong will answer many questions, but no matter what happens there will always be excuses for the loser (like map pool in bisu's case or the typical "meh JD had a day off" thing in the other)
On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though?
Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though?
Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
Maybe cause he hasn't lost to BeSt yet? What kind of argument is this?
On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though?
Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
People start criticizing him thats what , but BEST has to knock him out first
On February 17 2009 13:24 p4fn2w wrote: Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =).
it is the monthly power rank not the quarterly power rank or the biannual power rank
You may be right, because after closer inspection I only see OneOther and Avidkeystamper say otherwise.
The fact that no one else tried to argue with them led me to believe that they are right and everyone else agreed, that PR is NOT a monthly thing but an accumulation of prior months.
But if PR is about just this month alone, then you have Bisu winning GOM and Flash having an insane record. If PR is about the best player this very instant than I agree Flash is #1.
But I think it really depends on how far back you factor in the PR. The farther back it goes, the stronger Bisu's arguments are than Flash's.
On February 17 2009 13:24 p4fn2w wrote: Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =).
it is the monthly power rank not the quarterly power rank or the biannual power rank
You may be right, because after closer inspection I only see OneOther and Avidkeystamper say otherwise.
The fact that no one else tried to argue with them led me to believe that they are right and everyone else agreed, that PR is NOT a monthly thing but an accumulation of prior months.
But if PR is about just this month alone, then you have Bisu winning GOM and Flash having an insane record. If PR is about the best player this very instant than I agree Flash is #1.
But I think it really depends on how far back you factor in the PR. The farther back it goes, the stronger Bisu's arguments are than Flash's.
In my opinion:
The PR is about who is the strongest player RIGHT NOW. Past results are only factored in because they help us glean insight into the relative strength and consistency of the various players, as there's no definitive way of ranking them. So the PR isn't some sort of accumulation of the past, but instead, the past helps up determine who is the strongest player in the present because we have no better way of doing it.
Going on that definition, if someone is playing phenomenal Starcraft right now, it is worth more than someone who is playing mediocre right now but had some great games however far in the past. Past games really come into play when trying to determine a player's potential level or when there's a relatively small difference so consistency starts gaining more and more importance.
In practice, of course, this makes it so that the PR would be a weighted average of past games most of the time, with recent games having much more importance (like when Bisu tanked after being eliminated from both leagues the day before the PR came out even though he was dominant before), but it also means that when one player is totally outplaying the rest of the field it has to be recognized. It's somewhat debatable, but I think that Flash is doing just that; I think he's playing Starcraft at a notch above anyone else on a ridiculous schedule against the very top of his competition and that he deserves #1 PR (hypothetical at-this-moment of course) for it.
I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
On February 18 2009 10:57 p4fn2w wrote: I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
He did do some bad stuff to the MSL groups (I believe he was responsible for the all T group and I know he made group F), I think discrimination is justified in this case.
Haha, thats the kind of thing that gets me. Personal feelings getting in the way of a power, not popularity, ranking.
But I dont disagree with you, I actually lost a lot of respect for Bisu as a programer. But as a starcraft player he is pretty entertaining to watch =).
On February 18 2009 10:57 p4fn2w wrote: I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
I don't think the situation now is the same. Let me explain why I think so:
1. The time Stork won the OSL he was playing phenomenally. He had incredibly hard road to his title and yet he won it. Let me remind you that he beat Bisu and than BeSt in semifinal who was at that time on the incredible 16 PvP winning streak and seemed to be untouchable. At the same time, even though with very busy schedule Stork managed to get to 1/4 of MSL winning set against ForGG who at that time was really really strong and losing close set to Kal simply because he was practicing for OSL final.
At the time PR appeared I remember that Bisu just won MSL, Ture, he showed really dominating play but at that time almost everyone was still under impression of dominant play by Stork. For me Bisu started to rise only just before the PR and then he proved that he is no1.
2. Now we have the following situation. Flash in February ad incredibly busy schedule playing all top opponents. I don't think I need to mention the names but what is worth mentioning is that he went 9:0 against them showing incredibly impressive play. He is in both leagues and he is leading in a 1/16 set against Leta.
Now Bisu won GOMTV. That surely counts. But don't forget that Bisu is not in MSL and is not showing nearly as much dominance as he did before. Also, since GOM runs over such a long time it is hard to say if it is outcome of the current players form. That's why for me only recent games of GOM matter but not the results as a whole (ie. winning the title) carries lower weight.
So for now I would say Flash is a bit above Bisu simply because he shows incredible dominance that Bisu showed a couple of months ago. Again, Bisu is sill a monster but in my opinion he is less fearful as he was before his disaster with OSL and MSL.
Now, this can all change in the next week or two or even just before next PR. If Bisu beats Jaedong in the incoming set he will be definitely showing signs that he deserves no1. Also Flash has a lot on the stake.
As a Flash fan I would like to see him winning all his games ahead but I am not so blind to say he won't lose. To sum up, it is pointless to argue right now about the players
On February 18 2009 10:57 p4fn2w wrote: I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
I don't think the situation now is the same. Let me explain why I think so:
1. The time Stork won the OSL he was playing phenomenally. He had incredibly hard road to his title and yet he won it. Let me remind you that he beat Bisu and than BeSt in semifinal who was at that time on the incredible 16 PvP winning streak and seemed to be untouchable. At the same time, even though with very busy schedule Stork managed to get to 1/4 of MSL winning set against ForGG who at that time was really really strong and losing close set to Kal simply because he was practicing for OSL final.
At the time PR appeared I remember that Bisu just won MSL, Ture, he showed really dominating play but at that time almost everyone was still under impression of dominant play by Stork. For me Bisu started to rise only just before the PR and then he proved that he is no1.
2. Now we have the following situation. Flash in February ad incredibly busy schedule playing all top opponents. I don't think I need to mention the names but what is worth mentioning is that he went 9:0 against them showing incredibly impressive play. He is in both leagues and he is leading in a 1/16 set against Leta.
Now Bisu won GOMTV. That surely counts. But don't forget that Bisu is not in MSL and is not showing nearly as much dominance as he did before. Also, since GOM runs over such a long time it is hard to say if it is outcome of the current players form. That's why for me only recent games of GOM matter but not the results as a whole (ie. winning the title) carries lower weight.
So for now I would say Flash is a bit above Bisu simply because he shows incredible dominance that Bisu showed a couple of months ago. Again, Bisu is sill a monster but in my opinion he is less fearful as he was before his disaster with OSL and MSL.
Now, this can all change in the next week or two or even just before next PR. If Bisu beats Jaedong in the incoming set he will be definitely showing signs that he deserves no1. Also Flash has a lot on the stake.
As a Flash fan I would like to see him winning all his games ahead but I am not so blind to say he won't lose. To sum up, it is pointless to argue right now about the players
Although I respect your post, I disagree with number 1. The debate of Stork vs Bisu was for the December rankings, but Stork beat Bisu and Best during October, not November. Using these victories as an argument for Stork only reinforces Bisu's argument in this case, since it considers achievements from results prior to the PR's month.
And at that time, Stork was NOT showing phenomenal play right before December's ranking took place. His performance in November + the first few days of December before the PR came out consists of a 3-2 victory over Fantasy and a 25% winning rate in PL.
As of the GOM finals, Bisu was able to maintain around an 80% win rate stretching for over a month (starting from his MSL win, not his entire career), and he was able to defeat Flash in both a BO3 and a PL BO1 match. You said that "almost everyone was still under impression of dominant play by Stork" at that time, and now I feel the same for Bisu.
I understand your feeling on the weight of GOM, but I dont wholeheartedly agree with it since the longer GOM stretches, the longer you have to keep a dominant form in order to advance and eventually win it, which is what I believe Bisu have done. I feel winning GOM proves your dominance just as much, if not more, than the MSL or OSL.
And I agree with your last statement. I guess I got too carried away about a subtle double standard that some people are holding right now, and I guess I'll drop the argument unless I felt something really needs to be addressed. =)
On February 18 2009 10:57 p4fn2w wrote: I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
I don't think the situation now is the same. Let me explain why I think so:
1. The time Stork won the OSL he was playing phenomenally. He had incredibly hard road to his title and yet he won it. Let me remind you that he beat Bisu and than BeSt in semifinal who was at that time on the incredible 16 PvP winning streak and seemed to be untouchable. At the same time, even though with very busy schedule Stork managed to get to 1/4 of MSL winning set against ForGG who at that time was really really strong and losing close set to Kal simply because he was practicing for OSL final.
At the time PR appeared I remember that Bisu just won MSL, Ture, he showed really dominating play but at that time almost everyone was still under impression of dominant play by Stork. For me Bisu started to rise only just before the PR and then he proved that he is no1.
2. Now we have the following situation. Flash in February ad incredibly busy schedule playing all top opponents. I don't think I need to mention the names but what is worth mentioning is that he went 9:0 against them showing incredibly impressive play. He is in both leagues and he is leading in a 1/16 set against Leta.
Now Bisu won GOMTV. That surely counts. But don't forget that Bisu is not in MSL and is not showing nearly as much dominance as he did before. Also, since GOM runs over such a long time it is hard to say if it is outcome of the current players form. That's why for me only recent games of GOM matter but not the results as a whole (ie. winning the title) carries lower weight.
So for now I would say Flash is a bit above Bisu simply because he shows incredible dominance that Bisu showed a couple of months ago. Again, Bisu is sill a monster but in my opinion he is less fearful as he was before his disaster with OSL and MSL.
Now, this can all change in the next week or two or even just before next PR. If Bisu beats Jaedong in the incoming set he will be definitely showing signs that he deserves no1. Also Flash has a lot on the stake.
As a Flash fan I would like to see him winning all his games ahead but I am not so blind to say he won't lose. To sum up, it is pointless to argue right now about the players
Although I respect your post, I disagree with number 1. The debate of Stork vs Bisu was for the December rankings, but Stork beat Bisu and Best during October, not November. Using these victories as an argument for Stork only reinforces Bisu's argument in this case, since it considers achievements from results prior to the PR's month.
And at that time, Stork was NOT showing phenomenal play right before December's ranking took place. His performance in November + the first few days of December before the PR came out consists of a 3-2 victory over Fantasy and a 25% winning rate in PL.
As of the GOM finals, Bisu was able to maintain around an 80% win rate stretching for over a month (starting from his MSL win, not his entire career), and he was able to defeat Flash in both a BO3 and a PL BO1 match. You said that "almost everyone was still under impression of dominant play by Stork" at that time, and now I feel the same for Bisu.
I understand your feeling on the weight of GOM, but I dont wholeheartedly agree with it since the longer GOM stretches, the longer you have to keep a dominant form in order to advance and eventually win it, which is what I believe Bisu have done. I feel winning GOM proves your dominance just as much, if not more, than the MSL or OSL.
And I agree with your last statement. I guess I got too carried away about a subtle double standard that some people are holding right now, and I guess I'll drop the argument unless I felt something really needs to be addressed. =)
I haven't been checking exact timing but so I wrote what I remembered when there was that debate. So I guess 'we agree to disagree' which is perfectly fine
And given the current game schedules by the next PR everything should be clearer since as of now there are not many contenders for #1.
On February 18 2009 16:48 AzureEye wrote: Stork looked very solid during his last OSL journey. Even his PvZ was top notch during then imo. Nowadays...I don't know what to say.
Kal and Free have amazing PvZ lately
Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash all deserve the top 3 spots. Jaedong vs Bisu BO7 should decide the PR placement
Yeah , sucks for Flash thought , he just got eliminated from OSL , i think the power rank should value more WL and people who are doing all - kills or semi - all kills (players who are bringing the wins for their teams ) and are doing good in the leagues (example Flash/Jaedong) even if they get eliminated from 1 of them . I'm not saing that Bisu doesn't deserve the top 1 - 2 spot , but he isn't overworked or at least it doesn't seem that way in Proleague . I haven't seen him win a WL series when his team had to depend on him since the game vs ACE he failed versus Woondjin and Light ) . Look at how well prepared Bisu was versus July and how Flash sucked against Best today , after he had to play 4 games in WL and failed to bring home either the win for his team and the OSL game , but i would still give him a lot of points for the effort he shows every game that he plays . He obviously can't win them all its sad , but true . And today he got the worst of it - losing the last game against Estro and game against Best .
On February 18 2009 16:48 AzureEye wrote: Stork looked very solid during his last OSL journey. Even his PvZ was top notch during then imo. Nowadays...I don't know what to say.
Kal and Free have amazing PvZ lately
Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash all deserve the top 3 spots. Jaedong vs Bisu BO7 should decide the PR placement
Yeah , sucks for Flash thought , he just got eliminated from OSL , i think the power rank should value more WL and people who are doing all - kills or semi - all kills (players who are bringing the wins for their teams ) and are doing good in the leagues (example Flash/Jaedong) even if they get eliminated from 1 of them . I'm not saing that Bisu doesn't deserve the top 1 - 2 spot , but he isn't overworked or at least it doesn't seem that way in Proleague . I haven't seen him win a WL series when his team had to depend on him since the game vs ACE he failed versus Woondjin and Light ) . Look at how well prepared Bisu was versus July and how Flash sucked against Best today , after he had to play 4 games in WL and failed to bring home either the win for his team and the OSL game , but i would still give him a lot of points for the effort he shows every game that he plays . He obviously can't win them all its sad , but true . And today he got the worst of it - losing the last game against Estro and game against Best .
Yea, Flash had a rough day. Of course, he still had some great games (who was the last person to win with MnM TvP?), and IMO it's easier to forgive Flash giving up a couple of games to top-line players due to his schedule and the pressure on him.
Man, I just can't even imagine what goes through his head when he gets into that booth, knowing that he HAS to win 4 games in a row because his team fails and then he has to go play one of the best PvTs in the game right after. And that a bunch of those games are going to be players who have practiced for a week to snipe him and only him.
Now we just have to see if Flash can bounce back or if he's going into an overwork slump again.
On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though?
Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
People start criticizing him thats what , but BEST has to knock him out first
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
Okay,I still think that Flash should be no1,but if he gets eliminated from MSL,there is no way for him,no matter how many all-kills or semi all-kills he does. This way Yarnc should be in the top 3 for his performances(but 5 sounds really reasonable). Jd also failed hard against Flash this month,so right now,my fanboyism says Bisu. But first,Flash has to lose in the MSL,which I think he won't,I predicted the OSL and even liquibeted against him. JD vs Bisu can also fuck things up,if JD wins 3-0,because he lost to Flash this month,and that disturbs me. But anyway,go Bisu, go JD,claim the top 2 spots,please fail Flash!!
It all comes down to Jaedong vs. Bisu and Flash vs. Leta. If Flash beats Leta and Jaedong beats Bisu, then Flash should be #1 because in February he beat Jaedong twice and didn't play Bisu at all, so Flash>JD>Bisu. If Bisu beats JD then Bisu>Flash>JD. But if Flash loses to Leta well he'll be lucky to get #3.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
ok Darth Peter you right BUT now i wanna see how long Bisu(or JD or somebody else, not important) can play well If he been plays every single match and.... no less than 3 games
On February 18 2009 16:48 AzureEye wrote: Stork looked very solid during his last OSL journey. Even his PvZ was top notch during then imo. Nowadays...I don't know what to say.
Kal and Free have amazing PvZ lately
Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash all deserve the top 3 spots. Jaedong vs Bisu BO7 should decide the PR placement
Yeah , sucks for Flash thought , he just got eliminated from OSL , i think the power rank should value more WL and people who are doing all - kills or semi - all kills (players who are bringing the wins for their teams ) and are doing good in the leagues (example Flash/Jaedong) even if they get eliminated from 1 of them . I'm not saing that Bisu doesn't deserve the top 1 - 2 spot , but he isn't overworked or at least it doesn't seem that way in Proleague . I haven't seen him win a WL series when his team had to depend on him since the game vs ACE he failed versus Woondjin and Light ) . Look at how well prepared Bisu was versus July and how Flash sucked against Best today , after he had to play 4 games in WL and failed to bring home either the win for his team and the OSL game , but i would still give him a lot of points for the effort he shows every game that he plays . He obviously can't win them all its sad , but true . And today he got the worst of it - losing the last game against Estro and game against Best .
I somewhat disagre here, sure Flash does a great job in WL but he just isent the star he used to be. I think starleagues should be valued higher than WL since they are IMO the most important tournaments for a single player, and that is what we are measuring in the PL, individual skill. Just becourse Flash is in a bad position dosent mean he should be put higher, this is about POWER not pity.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Ok so they both have busy schedules, Bisu is out of MSL with losses to Savior and zero, and Flash is out of OSL with losses to Best and Upmagic. They are both only in 1 league now, and Flash is doing better in WL. You can't really place Bisu ahead of Flash when he lost to zero, and also recently to Guemchi.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Ok so they both have busy schedules, Bisu is out of MSL with losses to Savior and zero, and Flash is out of OSL with losses to Best and Upmagic. They are both only in 1 league now, and Flash is doing better in WL. You can't really place Bisu ahead of Flash when he lost to zero, and also recently to Guemchi.
He also recently won a gold medal, what have flash won the lately?
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Except Flash has already played 21 games this month with more than a third of it left. Flash's lack of reliable teammates hurt him, but it's not the same situation.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Except Flash has already played 21 games this month with more than a third of it left. Flash's lack of reliable teammates hurt him, but it's not the same situation.
I think what he's trying to say is that Bisu played a lot of games in January but the February PR obviously did not take that into account. Why should Flash deserve special treatment? No one even considered Bisu to be overworked that month, so unless Flash plays a crazy number of games for the rest of this month (like 30+ or more) then we should similarly not hold any sympathy for Flash.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Except Flash has already played 21 games this month with more than a third of it left. Flash's lack of reliable teammates hurt him, but it's not the same situation.
I think what he's trying to say is that Bisu played a lot of games in January but the February PR obviously did not take that into account. Why should Flash deserve special treatment? No one even considered Bisu to be overworked that month, so unless Flash plays a crazy number of games for the rest of this month (like 30+ or more) then we should similarly not hold any sympathy for Flash.
I have a great suggestion then, let's wait until most of the month is over before continuing this train of thought.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Except Flash has already played 21 games this month with more than a third of it left. Flash's lack of reliable teammates hurt him, but it's not the same situation.
I think what he's trying to say is that Bisu played a lot of games in January but the February PR obviously did not take that into account. Why should Flash deserve special treatment? No one even considered Bisu to be overworked that month, so unless Flash plays a crazy number of games for the rest of this month (like 30+ or more) then we should similarly not hold any sympathy for Flash.
And unfortunately Flash will probably reach amount close to 30 games this week... KTF really sucks.
I'm won't be sad to see Leta drop out of the top3 imo. I can't stand his dances/ceremonies. Bisu being in OSL is all deserved, I think its stupid ot hear people complaining about how Bisu didnt deserve his 2nd chance.
He dropped out of OSL from losing to by.Hero and his group. If he lost mere two games to drop out, and he went 6-0 in his wildcard group (arguably contained tougher opponents than his previous group), getting 6 wins for two losses definately makes up for a mere round of 32 spot.
On February 19 2009 12:49 Lockon Stratos wrote: Technically Bisu shouldn't be in the OSL at all, except that he got lucky.
Technically Flash hasn't won a title in forever, and Bisu won one this month, so...
You look at the history of professional starcraft it's very difficult to win a title. Flash can't win it all the time, and neither can Bisu, Jaedong, or anyone else.
On February 19 2009 12:49 Lockon Stratos wrote: Technically Bisu shouldn't be in the OSL at all, except that he got lucky.
Technically Flash hasn't won a title in forever, and Bisu won one this month, so...
You look at the history of professional starcraft it's very difficult to win a title. Flash can't win it all the time, and neither can Bisu, Jaedong, or anyone else.
If you take a look at the past 3 titles, which have happened in the past 4 months (roughly), how many did Bisu win? How many did Flash win? How many did Jaedong win?
Okay, now please stop saying "Flash can't win it all the time" when he hasn't won even one recent title, and Bisu has won two. Apparently someone is winning more than Flash in SLs, and that's Bisu. Sorry buddy, your argument sucks monkey penis.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
I think he's referring to the fact that flash played 5 games last night, and that flash continually has to carry his team, whereas bisu does not. thus, bisu has a lot more time to practice for individual league games than flash
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
Except Flash has already played 21 games this month with more than a third of it left. Flash's lack of reliable teammates hurt him, but it's not the same situation.
I think what he's trying to say is that Bisu played a lot of games in January but the February PR obviously did not take that into account. Why should Flash deserve special treatment? No one even considered Bisu to be overworked that month, so unless Flash plays a crazy number of games for the rest of this month (like 30+ or more) then we should similarly not hold any sympathy for Flash.
And unfortunately Flash will probably reach amount close to 30 games this week... KTF really sucks.
i completely agree with this and also I wish to add to it that If it proceeds Flash is goind down because he not a computer and his health is out of him
On February 19 2009 12:49 Lockon Stratos wrote: Technically Bisu shouldn't be in the OSL at all, except that he got lucky.
Technically Flash hasn't won a title in forever, and Bisu won one this month, so...
You look at the history of professional starcraft it's very difficult to win a title. Flash can't win it all the time, and neither can Bisu, Jaedong, or anyone else.
If you take a look at the past 3 titles, which have happened in the past 4 months (roughly), how many did Bisu win? How many did Flash win? How many did Jaedong win?
Okay, now please stop saying "Flash can't win it all the time" when he hasn't won even one recent title, and Bisu has won two. Apparently someone is winning more than Flash in SLs, and that's Bisu. Sorry buddy, your argument sucks monkey penis.
My argument sucks Money Penis? You're the one who sucks money penis. I'm not comparing Flash to Bisu, I'm just saying that many S class SC players don't win titles all the time. How long did it take for Stork to win the OSL? YellOw didn't win any major starcraft tournaments despite being an S class player. Although Bisu won 3 MSL titles, he hasn't won in an OSL yet. The point is despite Flash not winning consistently in major titles, he is not overrated in anyway, and still one of the top players in SC.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
I think he's referring to the fact that flash played 5 games last night, and that flash continually has to carry his team, whereas bisu does not. thus, bisu has a lot more time to practice for individual league games than flash
but playing 5+ games happens from time to time, so stop crying really. ForGG suffered the same thing last session with his PL/WCG/OSL in one day as far as can remember and he dropped the OSL in the end. Shit happens, just let it go
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
I think he's referring to the fact that flash played 5 games last night, and that flash continually has to carry his team, whereas bisu does not. thus, bisu has a lot more time to practice for individual league games than flash
but playing 5+ games happens from time to time, so stop crying really. ForGG suffered the same thing last session with his PL/WCG/OSL in one day as far as can remember and he dropped the OSL in the end. Shit happens, just let it go
Yeah, ForGG went 2-0 Bisu, 2-1 Shark and 1-2 Much. And ever since, his vP has plummeted. But since he doesn't have any rabid fanboys, no one took notice.
On February 19 2009 05:55 Sentenal wrote: lol, people acting all forgiving to Flash dropping the OSL, and being overly critical on Bisu for dropping a few PL games.
"You can't win them all." -A Flash Fan
Why can't that apply to Bisu as well?
Because Flash's schedule does not apply to Bisu.
oh really ? well flash played 7 games more this month but in January he had in total 8 games compared to Bisu's 23. Those 23 include the games vs hero, zero and savior, but no one ever mentioned busy schedule as an excuse. The fact is KTY had more games to play in the past two months than any other progamer and he still managed to keep his dominate form and to hold his elo above 2300
I think he's referring to the fact that flash played 5 games last night, and that flash continually has to carry his team, whereas bisu does not. thus, bisu has a lot more time to practice for individual league games than flash
but playing 5+ games happens from time to time, so stop crying really. ForGG suffered the same thing last session with his PL/WCG/OSL in one day as far as can remember and he dropped the OSL in the end. Shit happens, just let it go
well, considering that forgg dropped games due to his schedule, wouldn't that justify flash's performance that night? at least it should show that playing that many games will affect one's results. i'm not saying that his losses should be ignored, just that his schedule should be taken into consideration. also, i was just attempting to clarify what stratos said. i'm not taking any sides yet, considering how many games have yet to be played this month. so there's no need to lump me with fanboys or to bite my head off -.-
When Bisu was dropped to no5,that month he had 5 matches in one day,against all races and went 4-1,defeating Flash twice that day. So if Bisu-who was undoubtedly the best player right then,and Flash wasn't as close as Bisu Flash and Jd are now-got dropped 4 spots because he was eliminated from both tournaments,then Flash shouldn't be no1 either,when Bisu just won Gom,impressive in OSL,and despite not having an all-kill he has good records in the WL. And what if he lost to Guemchi? Shit happens time to time,you can't win it all,like they said. And about the schedule. When Flash beat JD in OSL last year,Lecaf said that that was because Jd was preparing for the Proleague GRand Final. Despite that,Flash got the no1. So I don't give two fucks about the fact that he had a busy schedule. He lost. End of story. And also,people can say he lost against good players. Thats also true,but if you are the best player,you can't be knocked out of both leagues,because if you are,that means you are not the best player.
I think the Flash for first in PR campaign is officially over. he can go 20-4 in a month or whatever, if he drops from both leauges he has no place on top
Flash deserves about 5th place, the same that Bisu got when when he needed 4 wins and got 4 loses. It doesn't matter how well Flash did the rest of the month or if he was overworked. The fact is, when push came to shove Flash lost his biggest games.
Flash shouldn't drop to fifth. The situation is not quite analogous to Bisu's two months ago. Flash's league eliminations are more understandable than Bisu's were. Regardless, he certainly isn't going to be number one. I'd still give him two or three.
The situation is analogous (8 games in 3 days, 7 in 2) and no one says this is smth that any player can handle, flash failed just like the guys before him (forgg, bisu). Is he the best player right now? No, but top 3 for sure
JD over Bisu over Flash over Jangbi. The only player "playing" better than JD is Flash, but I honestly cannot see him as 1st without being in any league. If Bisu clearly outplays JD they will switch, but right now, JD is more impressive. Leta 5 or maybe 4th switched with Jangbi. His own actually play hasn't been as impressive lately. Lux 6th, both leagues, but he hasn't had that many games that were truly impressive. Yarnac 7 is fine, 8 up/hwasin, depending on coming games. July 9th, Best 10th. If stork somehow manages to remain in both leagues (yeah right) he is 10th instead of Best, but I cannot see that happening. TBH, this coming PR is going to be weird no matter what.
On February 20 2009 01:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Flash played 7 matches in two days. This is not a schedule ANY player can accomodate.
Flash is still without question the best player on the scene. He got a raw fucking deal, but he is without question the best.
What effect this has on the Power Rank, I can't say yet. But you're fucking ignorant if you think anyone can handle that situation.
yes it can be handled. Like this: Dont practice for PL, after all you are facing a mediocre team and you have Lux + some chobos on your team, you ask your coach to be the 4th man, so probably wont even get to play, or just 1 match. In my personal opinion that's exactly what happened, i could be wrong. It's too naive to say Flash prepared for 4 matches for that WL match. I'm almost sure he just went there, and his incredible skills won him 3 games. Let's say his coach forced him to practice for PL too, that might be the case beacause it is rumored that KTF has an awfull coaching staff, than a responsible progamer decides wich SL is more important and concentrate on it, and try his best in the other one, without serious practice. Flash failed to bring the victory for his team, and got eliminated from 2 leagues. That's his fault, with his talent and skills he could easely excell in one or max 2 of his tasks. He dindt manage to do so beacause a) he's not that good, as it looked OR b) he tried to run after too many rabbits in the same time, and didnt get any (i dont know how much sense does this make, it's a hungarian proverb). Being a good progamer also requires the ability to structure your practice time. Some may argue that Flash is innocent in this case, and only his stupid coach forced him beyond his limits. Well, life suxx, without achievements even you, Fakesteve, cant give him 1st or 2nd place.
I don't know what you all are bitching about Flash and justifing Bisu for . You are all just stupid if you think the situations are even a slight similar .
First off Bisu has always had it easy in proleague unlike Flash . In WL Bisu can't touch Flash's little finger let alone compete with him ( if he won his matches vs Light or Guemchi i would have thought he is a contender ) . Making something spectacular like a semi all - kill or an all - kill its completely out of the question and its not like he didn't had a chances to do it . Can you all - kill OZ Bisu ? , can you semi - allkill the best of STX ? Can you make a record of 20 wins - 3 losses or something as crazy as that in WL ? Prove it or you won't stop me laughing .
Second Bisu lost to some newbie 2 - 0 in the OSL blaming the maps and all , while at the same time thinking ( and apperently his fans think) "god i'm the real deal when it comes to PvT " while destroing some newb on medusa . But who needs OSL RO 32 when you have your "get in the next round card the other way around " compliments from BackHO . And of course in that card is written " Lets enjoy our meal in Medusa Fried Terrans (MFT), much like Kentucky Fried Chicken (KTF) , but with more rape and imbalance in it " Flash an the other hand exited the OSL with honour playing 5 games that day winning 3 and playing an infinity amount of games in the same week vs top 15 Kespas losing only about 5 games . I guess you don't need to be as immortal as Flash , but as lucky as Bisu to make it to the next round in the OSL .
In MSL the all mighty Bisu "TheBonjwa" the reigning MSL champion put himself in a group full of mediocre zergs and Savior , while claiming ( and also his fans ) "I/Bisu has the best PvZ ." Of course Savior destroyed him , because its 2009 also Zero proved to be to much for him . Bravo Bisu you beat Magma you so much deserved to advance its not even funny !!! On the other side of the MSL in the group of death ( not the group of laughter ) Flash was victories . But he was stoped after by # 1 player on the PR the apparently 1 of the best players there is right now .
Summary of my thoughts - 1. Does Flash deserve the # 1 spot right now , the answer is - maybe , i don't know . 2. Does Bisu deserve the # 1 spot right now more then Flash - the answer is - don't be a jackass ..... Lets see what Bisu can do in the rest of the month , they are both somewhat of a contenders with Jaedong , but i think if nothing big happens Leta may remain the # 1 PR player , because he eliminated the best player from the tournament .
Blah. Flash why do you get knocked out of both leagues. I still want to place you number one, but you did not bring home the bacon. Take #2 as consolation prize. #1 and #3 is difficult. I would say hold off on the rankings until Bisu and Jaedong play, but that's technically next month, isn't it? We wouldn't want to be late on a PR would we? Heh.
For now... 1. Bisu 2. Flash 3. Jaedong(I cannot in good conscience place Jaedong above flash this month. Yet.) 4. Jangbi( I don't like him but 4th is a good place for him) 5. Fake Yellow 6. Savior 7. Leta 8. Luxury 9. Kal/Best/Free (they've all been ehhhh. Good enough to get 9th) 10. Reach (Wtb Reach All Kill)
Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Let's not forget that Bisu played once 5 games in 1 day and won 4 out of it and beat Flash twice. What did he get for that? A fucking fifth place. And it was as justified as it gets,you can't be no1 if you are eliminated from all leagues. What did Forgg get when he was eliminated in WCG Korea and OSL,and he played 8 games in a single fucking day! Nobody gave two shits about it and he got dropped to six. I mean,don't make an exception with Flash,just because he's Flash. He was really the most impressive player until this day,but he cannot be no1 unless Bisu and JD both are knocked out of the OSL until the next PR. Anyway,it's still pointless arguing,because Flash can get in a depression after this and start sucking in WL. Yeah,his situation is harder than Bisu's was. That's why he deserves no2 or 3 and not no 5. No1? If this is an objective ranking,no way.
On February 20 2009 04:55 raga4ka wrote: I don't know what you all are bitching about Flash and justifing Bisu for . You are all just stupid if you think the situations are even a slight similar .
First off Bisu has always had it easy in proleague unlike Flash . In WL Bisu can't touch Flash's little finger let alone compete with him ( if he won his matches vs Light or Guemchi i would have thought he is a contender ) . Making something spectacular like a semi all - kill or an all - kill its completely out of the question and its not like he didn't had a chances to do it . Can you all - kill OZ Bisu ? , can you semi - allkill the best of STX ? Can you make a record of 20 wins - 3 losses or something as crazy as that ? Prove it or you won't stop me laughing .
Second Bisu lost to some newbie 2 - 0 in the OSL blaming the maps and all , while at the same time thinking ( and apperently his fans think) "god i'm the real deal when it comes to PvT " while destroing some newb on medusa . But who needs OSL RO 32 when you have your "get in the next round card the other way around " compliments from BackHO . And of course in that card is written " Lets enjoy our meal in Medusa Fried Terrans (MFT), much like Kentucky Fried Chicken (KTF) , but with more rape and imbalance in it " Flash an the other hand exited the OSL with honour playing 5 games that day winning 3 and playing an infinity amount of games in the same week vs top 15 Kespas losing only about 5 games . I guess you don't need to be as immortal as Flash , but as lucky as Bisu to make it to the next round in the OSL .
In MSL the all mighty Bisu "TheBonjwa" the reigning MSL champion put himself in a group full of mediocre zergs and Savior , while claiming ( and also his fans ) "I/Bisu has the best PvZ ." Of course Savior destroyed him , because its 2009 also Zero proved to be to much for him . Bravo Bisu you beat Magma you so much deserved to advance its not even funny !!! On the other side of the MSL in the group of death ( not the group of laughter ) Flash was victories . But he was stoped after by # 1 player on the PR the apparently 1 of the best players there is right now .
Summary of my thoughts - 1. Does Flash deserve the # 1 spot right now , the answer is - i don't know . 2. Does Bisu deserve the # 1 spot right now more then Flash - the answer is - don't be a jackass ..... Lets see what Bisu can do in the rest of the month , they are both somewhat of a contenders with Jaedong , but i think if nothing big happens Leta may remain the # 1 PR player . I'm not even a Flash fan ....
you make no sense, when bisu was busy with 10 games a week there was no WL. What did you expect? Why so many ppl got flash and KTF in fantasy PL? Because the new format suits him more than the regular PL. In round 2 bisu was hmm 11-2 or smth like that dropping like a game to jaedong and tazza. Go check out TLPD, bisu managed in just one day to beat flash in gom And to defeat movie and effort in a long ace game in PL. I'm not making excuses for bisu's performance in msl or in osl vs hero. but saying that flash is a one man team and has to do exceptional stuff all by himself is wrong.The guy must have priority and to put one thing over the other just like you do in your daily routine. And you speak about bisu's opponents, why dont you look at flash's... Leta was on a 5 game losing streak before today, Best is just pathetic in WL recently, its not like he faced the most on fire guys right now. Just fucking let it go already, this is not the first time the good guy gets fucked by busy schedule and it wont be the last case I'm sure about it. ForGG,Bisu, Stork in last MSL, if you go further even savior vs bisu in their MSL final.
See how many games flash played in January and compare the number with Bisu, 7-23 !!!
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Bisu can have all the crappy medals he wants .... When he starts playing as much games as Flash and dominates 8/10 of them vs the best of the best , you may say that he is a better player then Flash right now .
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Bisu can have all the crapy medals he wants .... When he starts playing as much games as Flash and dominates 8/10 of them vs the best of the best , you may say that he is a better player then Flash right now .
You are just a dumb hater,and even when Bisu did just that you didn't recognize him as the best player. Bisu is not the perfect option for no1 in this PR,but he is still a hell lot more deserving than Jangbi was,so... And Bisu's elimination was two months ago. Just get over it. I f you go back that far,you should remember that Bisu beat Flash three times and lost only once. Flash always was a PL monster. If he was the best player,he would have advanced in at least one league,and you can't blame his loss vs Up in the OSL on anything,so if he beat him,he would have still advanced if he lost against Best.
1. Bisu - OSL + Wildcard domination overrule OSL elimination. MSL elimination sucks, but at least he still has his dominant OSL performance. GSL title. Decent WL record. Decent play. 2. Flash - Monster of WL. Beats many good and bad players. All-kills (overrated imo but still impressive). Eliminated from both leagues. 3. Jaedong - Dominating overall. Needs more concrete accomplishments imo. 4. Jangbi - Another silver performance, not too shabby. 5-10: Leta, Best, some other chumps.
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Nobody is arguing about Bisu's performance in the OSL wildcard, just that he even had a second chance at all. Why doesn't Jaedong get a 2nd chance in the MSL? Why doesn't Flash get a 2nd chance in the OSL? Luck. He has many games over noobs yes, but so does Bisu. But Flash also all-killed Lecaf, beat Jaedong not once, but twice. Beat Leta and sending him on a 4 game losing streak, beat an on-fire Hwasin twice, beat ForGG who is in the RO8 MSL. Flash survived the group of death while Bisu couldn't even beat ZerO and make it out of RO32. Factor in the level of competition he's had to face along with an insane schedule, he is still a top player, just one who got unlucky in the group selections.
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Nobody is arguing about Bisu's performance in the OSL wildcard, just that he even had a second chance at all. Why doesn't Jaedong get a 2nd chance in the MSL? Why doesn't Flash get a 2nd chance in the OSL? Luck. He has many games over noobs yes, but so does Bisu. But Flash also all-killed Lecaf, beat Jaedong not once, but twice. Beat Leta and sending him on a 4 game losing streak, beat an on-fire Hwasin twice, beat ForGG who is in the RO8 MSL. Flash survived the group of death while Bisu couldn't even beat ZerO and make it out of RO32. Factor in the level of competition he's had to face along with an insane schedule, he is still a top player, just one who got unlucky in the group selections.
Hello,you are going back two months. If you do that,please take into consideration that Bisu went 3-1 against Flash in that month. He got lucky? It happens,and good players have luck too. Like tell me that Jangbi wasn't lucky in MSL,Gom,and isn't lucky this MSL. Just look at his schedule. But is he a great player? Without question. If Light,Mind or anybody got in the OSL in the Wildcard,nobody would have said anything. It's just that Bisu got in. Wow,what an asshole,how dared he win those wildcards going 6-0. I guess that he even attacked Backho and made a Power Slam on him to break his back to get in the OSL. To win Starleagues you need a lot of luck too. Flash doesn't have it? Well suxx for him,sorry,but that's life. Some get lucky,some don't. Life sucks,deal with it.
On February 20 2009 04:55 raga4ka wrote: I don't know what you all are bitching about Flash and justifing Bisu for . You are all just stupid if you think the situations are even a slight similar .
First off Bisu has always had it easy in proleague unlike Flash . In WL Bisu can't touch Flash's little finger let alone compete with him ( if he won his matches vs Light or Guemchi i would have thought he is a contender ) . Making something spectacular like a semi all - kill or an all - kill its completely out of the question and its not like he didn't had a chances to do it . Can you all - kill OZ Bisu ? , can you semi - allkill the best of STX ? Can you make a record of 20 wins - 3 losses or something as crazy as that ? Prove it or you won't stop me laughing .
Second Bisu lost to some newbie 2 - 0 in the OSL blaming the maps and all , while at the same time thinking ( and apperently his fans think) "god i'm the real deal when it comes to PvT " while destroing some newb on medusa . But who needs OSL RO 32 when you have your "get in the next round card the other way around " compliments from BackHO . And of course in that card is written " Lets enjoy our meal in Medusa Fried Terrans (MFT), much like Kentucky Fried Chicken (KTF) , but with more rape and imbalance in it " Flash an the other hand exited the OSL with honour playing 5 games that day winning 3 and playing an infinity amount of games in the same week vs top 15 Kespas losing only about 5 games . I guess you don't need to be as immortal as Flash , but as lucky as Bisu to make it to the next round in the OSL .
In MSL the all mighty Bisu "TheBonjwa" the reigning MSL champion put himself in a group full of mediocre zergs and Savior , while claiming ( and also his fans ) "I/Bisu has the best PvZ ." Of course Savior destroyed him , because its 2009 also Zero proved to be to much for him . Bravo Bisu you beat Magma you so much deserved to advance its not even funny !!! On the other side of the MSL in the group of death ( not the group of laughter ) Flash was victories . But he was stoped after by # 1 player on the PR the apparently 1 of the best players there is right now .
Summary of my thoughts - 1. Does Flash deserve the # 1 spot right now , the answer is - i don't know . 2. Does Bisu deserve the # 1 spot right now more then Flash - the answer is - don't be a jackass ..... Lets see what Bisu can do in the rest of the month , they are both somewhat of a contenders with Jaedong , but i think if nothing big happens Leta may remain the # 1 PR player . I'm not even a Flash fan ....
you make no sense, when bisu was busy with 10 games a week there was no WL. What did you expect? Why so many ppl got flash and KTF in fantasy PL? Because the new format suits him more than the regular PL. In round 2 bisu was hmm 11-2 or smth like that dropping like a game to jaedong and tazza. Go check out TLPD, bisu managed in just one day to beat flash in gom And to defeat movie and effort in a long ace game in PL. I'm not making excuses for bisu's performance in msl or in osl vs hero. but saying that flash is a one man team and has to do exceptional stuff all by himself is wrong.The guy must have priority and to put one thing over the other just like you do in your daily routine. And you speak about bisu's opponents, why dont you look at flash's... Leta was on a 5 game losing streak before today, Best is just pathetic in WL recently, its not like he faced the most on fire guys right now. Just fucking let it go already, this is not the first time the good guy gets fucked by busy schedule and it wont be the last case I'm sure about it. ForGG,Bisu, Stork in last MSL, if you go further even savior vs bisu in their MSL final.
See how many games flash played in January and compare the number with Bisu, 7-23 !!!
And even when bisu was 11 - 2 at PL Flash was over all above him am i right ? I don't care about fucking finals i don't care about medals . All i know is that Flash so far has played a better quality of Starcraft in any and all situation better then enyone even if he lost 2 important games vs some of the best opponents and not crappy players like Bisu did . Bisu needs to do something more then beating Yarnc to surpass him this month .
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Bisu can have all the crappy medals he wants .... When he starts playing as much games as Flash and dominates 8/10 of them vs the best of the best , you may say that he is a better player then Flash right now .
Lol he played as many games as him in January AND he won medals.... crappy medals??? Flash can win all the crappy proleague games he wants, hes still failing to perform when it really counts. If you really think proleague wins > winning tourneys I am without words....
On February 20 2009 04:55 raga4ka wrote: I don't know what you all are bitching about Flash and justifing Bisu for . You are all just stupid if you think the situations are even a slight similar .
First off Bisu has always had it easy in proleague unlike Flash . In WL Bisu can't touch Flash's little finger let alone compete with him ( if he won his matches vs Light or Guemchi i would have thought he is a contender ) . Making something spectacular like a semi all - kill or an all - kill its completely out of the question and its not like he didn't had a chances to do it . Can you all - kill OZ Bisu ? , can you semi - allkill the best of STX ? Can you make a record of 20 wins - 3 losses or something as crazy as that ? Prove it or you won't stop me laughing .
Second Bisu lost to some newbie 2 - 0 in the OSL blaming the maps and all , while at the same time thinking ( and apperently his fans think) "god i'm the real deal when it comes to PvT " while destroing some newb on medusa . But who needs OSL RO 32 when you have your "get in the next round card the other way around " compliments from BackHO . And of course in that card is written " Lets enjoy our meal in Medusa Fried Terrans (MFT), much like Kentucky Fried Chicken (KTF) , but with more rape and imbalance in it " Flash an the other hand exited the OSL with honour playing 5 games that day winning 3 and playing an infinity amount of games in the same week vs top 15 Kespas losing only about 5 games . I guess you don't need to be as immortal as Flash , but as lucky as Bisu to make it to the next round in the OSL .
In MSL the all mighty Bisu "TheBonjwa" the reigning MSL champion put himself in a group full of mediocre zergs and Savior , while claiming ( and also his fans ) "I/Bisu has the best PvZ ." Of course Savior destroyed him , because its 2009 also Zero proved to be to much for him . Bravo Bisu you beat Magma you so much deserved to advance its not even funny !!! On the other side of the MSL in the group of death ( not the group of laughter ) Flash was victories . But he was stoped after by # 1 player on the PR the apparently 1 of the best players there is right now .
Summary of my thoughts - 1. Does Flash deserve the # 1 spot right now , the answer is - i don't know . 2. Does Bisu deserve the # 1 spot right now more then Flash - the answer is - don't be a jackass ..... Lets see what Bisu can do in the rest of the month , they are both somewhat of a contenders with Jaedong , but i think if nothing big happens Leta may remain the # 1 PR player . I'm not even a Flash fan ....
you make no sense, when bisu was busy with 10 games a week there was no WL. What did you expect? Why so many ppl got flash and KTF in fantasy PL? Because the new format suits him more than the regular PL. In round 2 bisu was hmm 11-2 or smth like that dropping like a game to jaedong and tazza. Go check out TLPD, bisu managed in just one day to beat flash in gom And to defeat movie and effort in a long ace game in PL. I'm not making excuses for bisu's performance in msl or in osl vs hero. but saying that flash is a one man team and has to do exceptional stuff all by himself is wrong.The guy must have priority and to put one thing over the other just like you do in your daily routine. And you speak about bisu's opponents, why dont you look at flash's... Leta was on a 5 game losing streak before today, Best is just pathetic in WL recently, its not like he faced the most on fire guys right now. Just fucking let it go already, this is not the first time the good guy gets fucked by busy schedule and it wont be the last case I'm sure about it. ForGG,Bisu, Stork in last MSL, if you go further even savior vs bisu in their MSL final.
See how many games flash played in January and compare the number with Bisu, 7-23 !!!
And even when bisu was 11 - 2 at PL Flash was over all above him am i right ? I don't care about fucking finals i don't care about medals . All i know is that Flash so far has played a better quality of Starcraft in any and all situation better then enyone even if he lost 2 importants games vs some the best opponents . Bisu needs to do something more then beating Yarnc to surpass him this month .
Than who cares that Bisu lost against by.hero and zero,it was just for crappy medals,which don;t mean shit!!! Nobody said that he should be above for beating Yarnc. Beside he beat chobos like Stork(lol,have you even heard about him?),July(who the hell is that? anyway,his Z v P must suck),JAngbi in finals. He aslo beat some good players in WL. He didn't achieve an all-kill? A shame. But should he beat Jaedong,I think he deserves no1. If JD wins,than he deserves no1,and the loser will probably get below Flash.
On February 20 2009 04:55 raga4ka wrote: I don't know what you all are bitching about Flash and justifing Bisu for . You are all just stupid if you think the situations are even a slight similar .
First off Bisu has always had it easy in proleague unlike Flash . In WL Bisu can't touch Flash's little finger let alone compete with him ( if he won his matches vs Light or Guemchi i would have thought he is a contender ) . Making something spectacular like a semi all - kill or an all - kill its completely out of the question and its not like he didn't had a chances to do it . Can you all - kill OZ Bisu ? , can you semi - allkill the best of STX ? Can you make a record of 20 wins - 3 losses or something as crazy as that ? Prove it or you won't stop me laughing .
Second Bisu lost to some newbie 2 - 0 in the OSL blaming the maps and all , while at the same time thinking ( and apperently his fans think) "god i'm the real deal when it comes to PvT " while destroing some newb on medusa . But who needs OSL RO 32 when you have your "get in the next round card the other way around " compliments from BackHO . And of course in that card is written " Lets enjoy our meal in Medusa Fried Terrans (MFT), much like Kentucky Fried Chicken (KTF) , but with more rape and imbalance in it " Flash an the other hand exited the OSL with honour playing 5 games that day winning 3 and playing an infinity amount of games in the same week vs top 15 Kespas losing only about 5 games . I guess you don't need to be as immortal as Flash , but as lucky as Bisu to make it to the next round in the OSL .
In MSL the all mighty Bisu "TheBonjwa" the reigning MSL champion put himself in a group full of mediocre zergs and Savior , while claiming ( and also his fans ) "I/Bisu has the best PvZ ." Of course Savior destroyed him , because its 2009 also Zero proved to be to much for him . Bravo Bisu you beat Magma you so much deserved to advance its not even funny !!! On the other side of the MSL in the group of death ( not the group of laughter ) Flash was victories . But he was stoped after by # 1 player on the PR the apparently 1 of the best players there is right now .
Summary of my thoughts - 1. Does Flash deserve the # 1 spot right now , the answer is - i don't know . 2. Does Bisu deserve the # 1 spot right now more then Flash - the answer is - don't be a jackass ..... Lets see what Bisu can do in the rest of the month , they are both somewhat of a contenders with Jaedong , but i think if nothing big happens Leta may remain the # 1 PR player . I'm not even a Flash fan ....
you make no sense, when bisu was busy with 10 games a week there was no WL. What did you expect? Why so many ppl got flash and KTF in fantasy PL? Because the new format suits him more than the regular PL. In round 2 bisu was hmm 11-2 or smth like that dropping like a game to jaedong and tazza. Go check out TLPD, bisu managed in just one day to beat flash in gom And to defeat movie and effort in a long ace game in PL. I'm not making excuses for bisu's performance in msl or in osl vs hero. but saying that flash is a one man team and has to do exceptional stuff all by himself is wrong.The guy must have priority and to put one thing over the other just like you do in your daily routine. And you speak about bisu's opponents, why dont you look at flash's... Leta was on a 5 game losing streak before today, Best is just pathetic in WL recently, its not like he faced the most on fire guys right now. Just fucking let it go already, this is not the first time the good guy gets fucked by busy schedule and it wont be the last case I'm sure about it. ForGG,Bisu, Stork in last MSL, if you go further even savior vs bisu in their MSL final.
See how many games flash played in January and compare the number with Bisu, 7-23 !!!
And even when bisu was 11 - 2 at PL Flash was over all above him am i right ? I don't care about fucking finals i don't care about medals . All i know is that Flash so far has played a better quality of Starcraft in any and all situation better then enyone even if he lost 2 importants games vs some the best opponents . Bisu needs to do something more then beating Yarnc to surpass him this month .
Nobody said that he should be above for beating Yarnc. Beside he beat chobos like Stork(lol,have you even heard about him?),July(who the hell is that? anyway,his Z v P must suck),JAngbi in finals. He aslo beat some good players in WL. He didn't achieve an all-kill? A shame. But should he beat Jaedong,I think he deserves no1. If JD wins,than he deserves no1,and the loser will probably get below Flash.
I'm counting his wins in OSL , but he needs more then that + a Yarnc victory to surpass what Flash has done so far .
On February 20 2009 04:55 raga4ka wrote: I don't know what you all are bitching about Flash and justifing Bisu for . You are all just stupid if you think the situations are even a slight similar .
First off Bisu has always had it easy in proleague unlike Flash . In WL Bisu can't touch Flash's little finger let alone compete with him ( if he won his matches vs Light or Guemchi i would have thought he is a contender ) . Making something spectacular like a semi all - kill or an all - kill its completely out of the question and its not like he didn't had a chances to do it . Can you all - kill OZ Bisu ? , can you semi - allkill the best of STX ? Can you make a record of 20 wins - 3 losses or something as crazy as that ? Prove it or you won't stop me laughing .
Second Bisu lost to some newbie 2 - 0 in the OSL blaming the maps and all , while at the same time thinking ( and apperently his fans think) "god i'm the real deal when it comes to PvT " while destroing some newb on medusa . But who needs OSL RO 32 when you have your "get in the next round card the other way around " compliments from BackHO . And of course in that card is written " Lets enjoy our meal in Medusa Fried Terrans (MFT), much like Kentucky Fried Chicken (KTF) , but with more rape and imbalance in it " Flash an the other hand exited the OSL with honour playing 5 games that day winning 3 and playing an infinity amount of games in the same week vs top 15 Kespas losing only about 5 games . I guess you don't need to be as immortal as Flash , but as lucky as Bisu to make it to the next round in the OSL .
In MSL the all mighty Bisu "TheBonjwa" the reigning MSL champion put himself in a group full of mediocre zergs and Savior , while claiming ( and also his fans ) "I/Bisu has the best PvZ ." Of course Savior destroyed him , because its 2009 also Zero proved to be to much for him . Bravo Bisu you beat Magma you so much deserved to advance its not even funny !!! On the other side of the MSL in the group of death ( not the group of laughter ) Flash was victories . But he was stoped after by # 1 player on the PR the apparently 1 of the best players there is right now .
Summary of my thoughts - 1. Does Flash deserve the # 1 spot right now , the answer is - i don't know . 2. Does Bisu deserve the # 1 spot right now more then Flash - the answer is - don't be a jackass ..... Lets see what Bisu can do in the rest of the month , they are both somewhat of a contenders with Jaedong , but i think if nothing big happens Leta may remain the # 1 PR player . I'm not even a Flash fan ....
you make no sense, when bisu was busy with 10 games a week there was no WL. What did you expect? Why so many ppl got flash and KTF in fantasy PL? Because the new format suits him more than the regular PL. In round 2 bisu was hmm 11-2 or smth like that dropping like a game to jaedong and tazza. Go check out TLPD, bisu managed in just one day to beat flash in gom And to defeat movie and effort in a long ace game in PL. I'm not making excuses for bisu's performance in msl or in osl vs hero. but saying that flash is a one man team and has to do exceptional stuff all by himself is wrong.The guy must have priority and to put one thing over the other just like you do in your daily routine. And you speak about bisu's opponents, why dont you look at flash's... Leta was on a 5 game losing streak before today, Best is just pathetic in WL recently, its not like he faced the most on fire guys right now. Just fucking let it go already, this is not the first time the good guy gets fucked by busy schedule and it wont be the last case I'm sure about it. ForGG,Bisu, Stork in last MSL, if you go further even savior vs bisu in their MSL final.
See how many games flash played in January and compare the number with Bisu, 7-23 !!!
And even when bisu was 11 - 2 at PL Flash was over all above him am i right ? I don't care about fucking finals i don't care about medals . All i know is that Flash so far has played a better quality of Starcraft in any and all situation better then enyone even if he lost 2 importants games vs some the best opponents . Bisu needs to do something more then beating Yarnc to surpass him this month .
Nobody said that he should be above for beating Yarnc. Beside he beat chobos like Stork(lol,have you even heard about him?),July(who the hell is that? anyway,his Z v P must suck),JAngbi in finals. He aslo beat some good players in WL. He didn't achieve an all-kill? A shame. But should he beat Jaedong,I think he deserves no1. If JD wins,than he deserves no1,and the loser will probably get below Flash.
I'm counting his wins in OSL , but he needs more then that + a Yarnc victory to surpass what Flash has done so far .
Okay,and what exactly do you think he has to do more? What did JAngbi do when he surpassed Bisu in the PR? He beat pepe and got a free win against Backho. That's a lot more impressive than what Bisu did this month,right? And I think that Bisu was more impressive that month than Flash is right now.
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Bisu can have all the crappy medals he wants .... When he starts playing as much games as Flash and dominates 8/10 of them vs the best of the best , you may say that he is a better player then Flash right now .
Lol he played as many games as him in January AND he won medals.... crappy medals??? Flash can win all the crappy proleague games he wants, hes still failing to perform when it really counts. If you really think proleague wins > winning tourneys I am without words....
All i'm saing is pure dominance . Bisu has a shot at the OSL gold with a second chance Flash doesn't get a second chance . He is still a long way from an OSL gold anyway . I pointed the medals as you should not take them in to consideration when they are 2 and more months in the pass otherwise as FakeSteve likes to say " you'll get sick of Nada being #1 " .
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Bisu can have all the crappy medals he wants .... When he starts playing as much games as Flash and dominates 8/10 of them vs the best of the best , you may say that he is a better player then Flash right now .
Lol he played as many games as him in January AND he won medals.... crappy medals??? Flash can win all the crappy proleague games he wants, hes still failing to perform when it really counts. If you really think proleague wins > winning tourneys I am without words....
All i'm saing is pure dominance . Bisu has a shot at the OSL gold with a second chance Flash doesn't get a second chance . He is still a long way from an OSL gold anyway . I pointed the medals as you should not take them in to consideration when they are 2 and more months in the pass otherwise as FakeSteve likes to say " you'll get sick of Nada being #1 " .
Bisu just won a medal this month. Otherwise,let's talk about Jd too,because I think he is a really strong contender having performed too all-kills,and he is just as overused by his team as Flash is. Having lost to Flash doesn't mean that much because that way you could put Upmagic above Flash. With the logic of Flash fans,you can also blame his busy schedule for being knocked out of the MSL. Despite the lots of matches he played in,he is still 2-0 in his OSL group and will most likely be 3-0. His win against Kal on ToM doesn't say much? Well,he beat the second best ZvZ player from a disadvantage and performed the first reversed all-kill,beating Leta,most notably,who is a beast against Zergs.
On February 20 2009 02:52 fanatacist wrote: What are the reasons why you think JD is playing better than Bisu right now? Link to games/talk about results please.
I am not being snide I actually am curious to see your argument/some JD games since I don't follow him much.
I simply think that the level of play he has shown has been better. Some of this wins this month have really been outstanding. Bisu has shown that capacity, sure, but not so much lately. And he has mixed it with some mediocre showings, while IMHO JD's losses have been much more forgivable.
But as I said, I think the BO5 would be a good way to call it, since it is definitely close right now. If Bisu can show that he can beat JD in a BO5, he is nr 1. And as this PR was out the 2nd, it is not unreasonable to put the next one from March the 2nd, which lets us included it.
On February 20 2009 05:21 disciple wrote: Games played by Bisu in January: 23 - lost 6 / Games Played in February: 14 Games played by Flash in February: 22- lost 5 / Games played in January: 8
Hello! Bisu plays more than Flash
In January KTY was under the biggest shit storm because of his 4 losses vZ
I really don't see why Leta should drop all that much, Hes still probably gonna be in both leagues and he hasn't dropped any more games unreasonably than bisu or flash or jaedong has. Tbh i still think he should be at least top 3 (possibly number 1 depending on how the rest of the month plays out)
On February 20 2009 06:01 Tinithor wrote: I really don't see why Leta should drop all that much, Hes still probably gonna be in both leagues and he hasn't dropped any more games unreasonably than bisu or flash or jaedong has. Tbh i still think he should be at least top 3 (possibly number 1 depending on how the rest of the month plays out)
I don't know. Leta lost too many games this month,but he indeed proved that he is not just another good Proleague player,but that he doesn't choke under pressure. He still in both leagues,so that's a good point in his favour. I am really curious.
yep, whoever said he was the new Sea : eat your words~ this kid might not be the next flash, but he's still hella gifted and is living up to his hype pretty well. He and Luxury are the only players who have a shot for the double SL titles this season, can you expect more from a rookie kiddo ?
Wow Flash Fanboys are going crazy. I ROFLed at "your argument sucks monkey penis," to which got the response "My argument sucks Money Penis? You're the one who sucks money penis." lol
Anyway, #1 and #2 should be determined who wins between Bisu and Jaedong in their match. Leta should be #3. Jangbi or Flash should be #4 or #5.
There is no justification at all to put Flash, who is now out of both the MSL and OSL, who will only be playing in Proleauge for the foreseeable future, who when push came to shove dropped the ball, should be top 3. I say top 3, because when Leta is the one who knocked him out of the MSL, and Leta hasn't been dropping leagues, there is no justification for putting Flash over Leta. And if Bisu got dropped to #5 for dropping out of both leagues, I don't see why Flash can't eat that too.
Reach should get like #10 though. Hes giving such manly games right now, with his new Military Powers, and plus, its fucking Reach. At least replace Anytime with Reach.
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Nobody is arguing about Bisu's performance in the OSL wildcard, just that he even had a second chance at all. Why doesn't Jaedong get a 2nd chance in the MSL? Why doesn't Flash get a 2nd chance in the OSL? Luck. He has many games over noobs yes, but so does Bisu. But Flash also all-killed Lecaf, beat Jaedong not once, but twice. Beat Leta and sending him on a 4 game losing streak, beat an on-fire Hwasin twice, beat ForGG who is in the RO8 MSL. Flash survived the group of death while Bisu couldn't even beat ZerO and make it out of RO32. Factor in the level of competition he's had to face along with an insane schedule, he is still a top player, just one who got unlucky in the group selections.
Haha. Look at this fanboyism. Did you forget Leta beat Flash two times after that? Flash shouldn't get any credit for Leta's loss to 3 OTHER players (Jaedong and Fantasy included). Why did you even bring it up? You're fluffing his accomplishments. You didn't want to say: "Flash beat Leta!! -- Then Leta beat him twice afterwards." Pathetic.
On February 20 2009 05:07 fanatacist wrote: Flash is in neither leagues. Bisu is dominating one. Bisu falling out of OSL is justified by his Wildcard performance, since he faced a HARDER set of competitors and came out 6-0. Bisu falling out of MSL is a minus, yes, but not as bad as Flash being in neither league. Like I said before, SL > PL/WL. Add Bisu's success in OSL to his GSL title from THIS MONTH, and it takes a shit all over Flash's WL record which has many games over noobs and shitty teams.
Nobody is arguing about Bisu's performance in the OSL wildcard, just that he even had a second chance at all. Why doesn't Jaedong get a 2nd chance in the MSL? Why doesn't Flash get a 2nd chance in the OSL? Luck. He has many games over noobs yes, but so does Bisu. But Flash also all-killed Lecaf, beat Jaedong not once, but twice. Beat Leta and sending him on a 4 game losing streak, beat an on-fire Hwasin twice, beat ForGG who is in the RO8 MSL. Flash survived the group of death while Bisu couldn't even beat ZerO and make it out of RO32. Factor in the level of competition he's had to face along with an insane schedule, he is still a top player, just one who got unlucky in the group selections.
Flash is currently on a 4 loss streak. By your logic, can we say Upmagic sent him there? Upmagic beat him twice then after the second time, Flash lost to Best, and Leta twice. You like that logic? Don't cherrypick.
On February 20 2009 07:48 Sentenal wrote: Wow Flash Fanboys are going crazy. I ROFLed at "your argument sucks monkey penis," to which got the response "My argument sucks Money Penis? You're the one who sucks money penis." lol
Anyway, #1 and #2 should be determined who wins between Bisu and Jaedong in their match. Leta should be #3. Jangbi or Flash should be #4 or #5.
There is no justification at all to put Flash, who is now out of both the MSL and OSL, who will only be playing in Proleauge for the foreseeable future, who when push came to shove dropped the ball, should be top 3. I say top 3, because when Leta is the one who knocked him out of the MSL, and Leta hasn't been dropping leagues, there is no justification for putting Flash over Leta. And if Bisu got dropped to #5 for dropping out of both leagues, I don't see why Flash can't eat that too.
Reach should get like #10 though. Hes giving such manly games right now, with his new Military Powers, and plus, its fucking Reach. At least replace Anytime with Reach.
LOL yea I didn't want to bring that up because that would be a low blow, like laughing at a retarded kid who can't do math or something.
fortune doesn't always smile on you, is the thing. he's had a lot of close games recently - some build luck, opponents throwing away advantages, etc. - in this age it's the only way you can put together a streak that long. i don't think anyone should be surprised it swung the other way.
i really didn't notice anything different in his play. just...sometimes you lose.
the same goes for bisu during his group stage "problems" (though admittedly he seemed to mess up his cannon timing in a bunch of those games, putting him too far behind opponents playing really well).
1) Bisu. He and Flash were in contention for the top spot. They aren't any more. 2) Jaedong. He's been tearing people to shreds lately. 3) Leta. I'd place the guy who's still in the MSL above the guy he eliminated in a straight-up Bo3. 4) Flash. He's the little prince of winner's league, although he was eliminated from OSL and MSL by respectable opponents. His play has been phenomenal all-around, and even in his losses he plays well. (The only really embarassing loss was Leta's cheese.) 5-10) Some combination of Best, Hwasin, Luxury, Yarnc, Savior, and Jangbi, I suppose.
hm i'd say bisu/leta for 1 and 2, then jaedong/flash 3 and 4 but the last 6 spots are hard to figure out maestro maybe 5 luxury hwasin jangbi; and best and yellow[arnc], i guess thats it kal maybe instead of yellow (impressive all kill)
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
Anyone notice that FBH is not in either league. That's the only difference between him and Stork. jk, but you get the point. His games and records have been lackluster to say the least. He's too inconsistent right now. Very streaky in his last games.
Anyhow, as long as we agree that Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong (in no particular order) is in top 3, we should wait until Bisu vs Jaedong Bo5 and some more results from Flash to start ranking them.
New PRs come late, as you guys already should know...whats the point of arguing now
On February 20 2009 01:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Flash played 7 matches in two days. This is not a schedule ANY player can accomodate.
Flash is still without question the best player on the scene. He got a raw fucking deal, but he is without question the best.
What effect this has on the Power Rank, I can't say yet. But you're fucking ignorant if you think anyone can handle that situation.
yes it can be handled. Like this: Dont practice for PL, after all you are facing a mediocre team and you have Lux + some chobos on your team, you ask your coach to be the 4th man, so probably wont even get to play, or just 1 match. In my personal opinion that's exactly what happened, i could be wrong. It's too naive to say Flash prepared for 4 matches for that WL match. I'm almost sure he just went there, and his incredible skills won him 3 games. Let's say his coach forced him to practice for PL too, that might be the case beacause it is rumored that KTF has an awfull coaching staff, than a responsible progamer decides wich SL is more important and concentrate on it, and try his best in the other one, without serious practice. Flash failed to bring the victory for his team, and got eliminated from 2 leagues. That's his fault, with his talent and skills he could easely excell in one or max 2 of his tasks. He dindt manage to do so beacause a) he's not that good, as it looked OR b) he tried to run after too many rabbits in the same time, and didnt get any (i dont know how much sense does this make, it's a hungarian proverb). Being a good progamer also requires the ability to structure your practice time. Some may argue that Flash is innocent in this case, and only his stupid coach forced him beyond his limits. Well, life suxx, without achievements even you, Fakesteve, cant give him 1st or 2nd place.
It would be nice from you, if you answer.
no shit he can't be given 1 or 2, he's out of both leagues. Whether its scheduling or not, if you are not able to compete against the top of the field, you are going to drop.
That doesn't changed the fact that Flash is by far the best player in the field right now. If he doesn't show it, the fact that there's a scheduling problem is unfortunate, but OSL/MSL are OSL/MSL and they are extremely relevant.
And no, Flash is not going to throw games in WL or not practice - He is KTF's ONLY strong player, and teams put a much higher focus on teamleague than OSL and MSL.
On February 20 2009 07:48 Sentenal wrote: Wow Flash Fanboys are going crazy. I ROFLed at "your argument sucks monkey penis," to which got the response "My argument sucks Money Penis? You're the one who sucks money penis." lol
Anyway, #1 and #2 should be determined who wins between Bisu and Jaedong in their match. Leta should be #3. Jangbi or Flash should be #4 or #5.
There is no justification at all to put Flash, who is now out of both the MSL and OSL, who will only be playing in Proleauge for the foreseeable future, who when push came to shove dropped the ball, should be top 3. I say top 3, because when Leta is the one who knocked him out of the MSL, and Leta hasn't been dropping leagues, there is no justification for putting Flash over Leta. And if Bisu got dropped to #5 for dropping out of both leagues, I don't see why Flash can't eat that too.
Reach should get like #10 though. Hes giving such manly games right now, with his new Military Powers, and plus, its fucking Reach. At least replace Anytime with Reach.
It had nothing to do with being a fanboy, he told me my argument sucked monkeypenis and I told the prick he sucks monkey penis. The End.
On February 20 2009 07:48 Sentenal wrote: Wow Flash Fanboys are going crazy. I ROFLed at "your argument sucks monkey penis," to which got the response "My argument sucks Money Penis? You're the one who sucks money penis." lol
Anyway, #1 and #2 should be determined who wins between Bisu and Jaedong in their match. Leta should be #3. Jangbi or Flash should be #4 or #5.
There is no justification at all to put Flash, who is now out of both the MSL and OSL, who will only be playing in Proleauge for the foreseeable future, who when push came to shove dropped the ball, should be top 3. I say top 3, because when Leta is the one who knocked him out of the MSL, and Leta hasn't been dropping leagues, there is no justification for putting Flash over Leta. And if Bisu got dropped to #5 for dropping out of both leagues, I don't see why Flash can't eat that too.
Reach should get like #10 though. Hes giving such manly games right now, with his new Military Powers, and plus, its fucking Reach. At least replace Anytime with Reach.
LOL yea I didn't want to bring that up because that would be a low blow, like laughing at a retarded kid who can't do math or something.
Since when was arguing about power rankings suppose to make you a smart ass? You're one the one who's acting like a kid retard.
On February 20 2009 01:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Flash played 7 matches in two days. This is not a schedule ANY player can accomodate.
Flash is still without question the best player on the scene. He got a raw fucking deal, but he is without question the best.
What effect this has on the Power Rank, I can't say yet. But you're fucking ignorant if you think anyone can handle that situation.
yes it can be handled. Like this: Dont practice for PL, after all you are facing a mediocre team and you have Lux + some chobos on your team, you ask your coach to be the 4th man, so probably wont even get to play, or just 1 match. In my personal opinion that's exactly what happened, i could be wrong. It's too naive to say Flash prepared for 4 matches for that WL match. I'm almost sure he just went there, and his incredible skills won him 3 games. Let's say his coach forced him to practice for PL too, that might be the case beacause it is rumored that KTF has an awfull coaching staff, than a responsible progamer decides wich SL is more important and concentrate on it, and try his best in the other one, without serious practice. Flash failed to bring the victory for his team, and got eliminated from 2 leagues. That's his fault, with his talent and skills he could easely excell in one or max 2 of his tasks. He dindt manage to do so beacause a) he's not that good, as it looked OR b) he tried to run after too many rabbits in the same time, and didnt get any (i dont know how much sense does this make, it's a hungarian proverb). Being a good progamer also requires the ability to structure your practice time. Some may argue that Flash is innocent in this case, and only his stupid coach forced him beyond his limits. Well, life suxx, without achievements even you, Fakesteve, cant give him 1st or 2nd place.
It would be nice from you, if you answer.
no shit he can't be given 1 or 2, he's out of both leagues. Whether its scheduling or not, if you are not able to compete against the top of the field, you are going to drop.
That doesn't changed the fact that Flash is by far the best player in the field right now. If he doesn't show it, the fact that there's a scheduling problem is unfortunate, but OSL/MSL are OSL/MSL and they are extremely relevant.
And no, Flash is not going to throw games in WL or not practice - He is KTF's ONLY strong player, and teams put a much higher focus on teamleague than OSL and MSL.
fine, i see your logic, he practiced for WL and coudnt allkill estro -> loss for KTF, practiced for the SLs cuz they are evenly importnat, got dropped from both -> eliminated from every active SLs (GOM is taking a break).
All in all we can conclude he's the best player, but he has scheldue problems. Genious.
Situations like this happened befor; Forgg, Bisu, Jaedong were in similar positions, and if they failed they got low ranking. When Bisu teared everything apart than got kicked from both of the leauges you gave him 4th or 5th spot. Since than he won the GOM easily, fought his way back in OSL, 3-0ed his tough group, earned several wins in PL.
Flash owns in WL, did a REALLY impressive all-kill and bought several wins. And got his ass handled to him in both SLs.
Players sometimes dont have the time to practice. Jd told in the intreview after his match, that he couldnt prepare and tought he wouldnt be able to win (game against Kal). Great players have to win some games even if they dont practice. It sometimes happens that you will have too many games in one day, if you cant handle the situation you're not that good. Starcraft isnt about who can win a game with 24h practice. Flash just chokes under pressure. The same thing happened last season. He didnt get even close to a final since his first and only SL win (+gom starinvitational which happened about the same time).
Flash is the best player, who cant see this is blind... my ass
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
On February 20 2009 01:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Flash played 7 matches in two days. This is not a schedule ANY player can accomodate.
Flash is still without question the best player on the scene. He got a raw fucking deal, but he is without question the best.
What effect this has on the Power Rank, I can't say yet. But you're fucking ignorant if you think anyone can handle that situation.
yes it can be handled. Like this: Dont practice for PL, after all you are facing a mediocre team and you have Lux + some chobos on your team, you ask your coach to be the 4th man, so probably wont even get to play, or just 1 match. In my personal opinion that's exactly what happened, i could be wrong. It's too naive to say Flash prepared for 4 matches for that WL match. I'm almost sure he just went there, and his incredible skills won him 3 games. Let's say his coach forced him to practice for PL too, that might be the case beacause it is rumored that KTF has an awfull coaching staff, than a responsible progamer decides wich SL is more important and concentrate on it, and try his best in the other one, without serious practice. Flash failed to bring the victory for his team, and got eliminated from 2 leagues. That's his fault, with his talent and skills he could easely excell in one or max 2 of his tasks. He dindt manage to do so beacause a) he's not that good, as it looked OR b) he tried to run after too many rabbits in the same time, and didnt get any (i dont know how much sense does this make, it's a hungarian proverb). Being a good progamer also requires the ability to structure your practice time. Some may argue that Flash is innocent in this case, and only his stupid coach forced him beyond his limits. Well, life suxx, without achievements even you, Fakesteve, cant give him 1st or 2nd place.
It would be nice from you, if you answer.
no shit he can't be given 1 or 2, he's out of both leagues. Whether its scheduling or not, if you are not able to compete against the top of the field, you are going to drop.
That doesn't changed the fact that Flash is by far the best player in the field right now. If he doesn't show it, the fact that there's a scheduling problem is unfortunate, but OSL/MSL are OSL/MSL and they are extremely relevant.
And no, Flash is not going to throw games in WL or not practice - He is KTF's ONLY strong player, and teams put a much higher focus on teamleague than OSL and MSL.
Bisu fanboys are so mad no one can see their hero's greatness and absolute skill. Maybe there's a reason? Like FS said, Flash is the best player right now all around. He lost in OSL and MSL and will suffer on the power rank for the next couple of months. What can you do? Bisu lost OSL and MSL too if I remember correctly and before someone comes in with "OMG TIEBREAKS WERE HARD THO SIX OH SIX OH!" do you seriously think Flash couldnt 6-0 a tiebreaker group of all the losers in a preliminary round if he got the chance? Of course he would.
Personally I think Bisu is OSL gold bound this season now, but even if it happens without facing some tough tough adversity in the best of 5's, I still won't consider him the best. He just isn't right now. And before I get "omg bisu hater", I think Bisu is a great player and respect his ability but right now people are going way overboard in terms of his current skill and domance level. He's not the best. It's pretty easy to call imo and again before the "OK FLASH FANBOI ITS IN UR SIG" comments, when Jaedong had Flash's number, I admitted and knew Jaedong was way past Flash in terms of skill. When Lux beat Flash OSL it was domination and I acknowledged Flash's obvious lack of game plan and ability. But Bisu just doesn't give me the feel of being the best. Wins against Jangbi and Free are cool, but put him in a Bo5 with Flash or Jaedong and lets see what happens. Personally in the upcoming gom matches I expect 3-1 Jaedong... so... We'll see what happens.
On February 20 2009 20:40 Geo.Rion wrote: Players sometimes dont have the time to practice. Jd told in the intreview after his match, that he couldnt prepare and tought he wouldnt be able to win (game against Kal). Great players have to win some games even if they dont practice. It sometimes happens that you will have too many games in one day, if you cant handle the situation you're not that good. Starcraft isnt about who can win a game with 24h practice. Flash just chokes under pressure. The same thing happened last season. He didnt get even close to a final since his first and only SL win (+gom starinvitational which happened about the same time).
Flash is the best player, who cant see this is blind... my ass
I couldn't agree more. Flash is really really good. But to be considered the best there is too much failure involved right now (and in the last couple of months). But he is so young, he still got a lot of time.
On February 20 2009 22:29 Vasoline73 wrote: Bisu fanboys are so mad no one can see their hero's greatness and absolute skill. Maybe there's a reason? Like FS said, Flash is the best player right now all around. He lost in OSL and MSL and will suffer on the power rank for the next couple of months. What can you do? Bisu lost OSL and MSL too if I remember correctly and before someone comes in with "OMG TIEBREAKS WERE HARD THO SIX OH SIX OH!" do you seriously think Flash couldnt 6-0 a tiebreaker group of all the losers in a preliminary round if he got the chance? Of course he would.
Personally I think Bisu is OSL gold bound this season now, but even if it happens without facing some tough tough adversity in the best of 5's, I still won't consider him the best. He just isn't right now. And before I get "omg bisu hater", I think Bisu is a great player and respect his ability but right now people are going way overboard in terms of his current skill and domance level. He's not the best. It's pretty easy to call imo and again before the "OK FLASH FANBOI ITS IN UR SIG" comments, when Jaedong had Flash's number, I admitted and knew Jaedong was way past Flash in terms of skill. When Lux beat Flash OSL it was domination and I acknowledged Flash's obvious lack of game plan and ability. But Bisu just doesn't give me the feel of being the best. Wins against Jangbi and Free are cool, but put him in a Bo5 with Flash or Jaedong and lets see what happens. Personally in the upcoming gom matches I expect 3-1 Jaedong... so... We'll see what happens.
if Flash would be the best player of the world he would have succeeded at least in one of his tasks. He could at least allkill the great and scary Estro team, or take one of the two games against Leta. C'mon you should at least use some arguments based on the played games. I did not watch the WL games yet, but i did watch the MSL and OSL games, and Flash could have qualified. Against Best he was in commanding position for quite some time, forced best to cancel his natural expo, put up a nice contain, kept him on even basecount and all that stuff a T would like to do against a P. Best played it well, and won. EDIT: i cheked the map stats, it's 7-3 in favor of T against P. Even the maps were helping him, and because his other 3 loss were against T, his best MU i think he got no more excuse, than the lack of time. And i repeat myself, that doesnt explain 3 failure. Yes i consider the KTF loss a failure, even though Flash was possibly the best player in that match. It's still a loss for KTF who are fighting for their spot in the top6. 3 wins are fine from 1 player, but it wasnt enough in this case. The games against Leta. Ofc, Leta is a great player losing against him in a standard game than in a cheesy one isnt a shame. BUT 2proxy rax is an allin build which instantly wins against 14 CC or some wierd rax than CC builds, but the standard rax+fact first opening has fairly good chanse to defend against it, it's up to micro. The good thing about this is, that if a player couldnt practice enough his pure skills and micro can win him the game. Yet Flashed mismicroed his rines and lost easily. These are my toughts on the case. I hated Flash because he used to play a perfect terran (+some interviews), and i was angry on him because he defeated all my favorites, and did that in an unqestunable fashion. I always admitted when he was on the top of the world, but NOW he's not. Not only beacuse he's out from both SLs, but beacuse he could be at least in one of them. But yeah, mostly because he's out. He chokes under pressure, that's sad for his fans i guess, i can understand it's frustrating, but still, that's how it is.
On February 20 2009 22:29 Vasoline73 wrote: Bisu fanboys are so mad no one can see their hero's greatness and absolute skill. Maybe there's a reason? Like FS said, Flash is the best player right now all around. He lost in OSL and MSL and will suffer on the power rank for the next couple of months. What can you do? Bisu lost OSL and MSL too if I remember correctly and before someone comes in with "OMG TIEBREAKS WERE HARD THO SIX OH SIX OH!" do you seriously think Flash couldnt 6-0 a tiebreaker group of all the losers in a preliminary round if he got the chance? Of course he would.
Personally I think Bisu is OSL gold bound this season now, but even if it happens without facing some tough tough adversity in the best of 5's, I still won't consider him the best. He just isn't right now. And before I get "omg bisu hater", I think Bisu is a great player and respect his ability but right now people are going way overboard in terms of his current skill and domance level. He's not the best. It's pretty easy to call imo and again before the "OK FLASH FANBOI ITS IN UR SIG" comments, when Jaedong had Flash's number, I admitted and knew Jaedong was way past Flash in terms of skill. When Lux beat Flash OSL it was domination and I acknowledged Flash's obvious lack of game plan and ability. But Bisu just doesn't give me the feel of being the best. Wins against Jangbi and Free are cool, but put him in a Bo5 with Flash or Jaedong and lets see what happens. Personally in the upcoming gom matches I expect 3-1 Jaedong... so... We'll see what happens.
Did you even follow the Gom and after that the Pl where Bisu beat Flash? Weren't those wins impressive? And before you come up with the map imbalance thing,don't tell me that Sin Chupung Ryeong does not favour Terran over Zerg. It does. But I got over it when Flash just walked over Jaedong there. And Bisu got punished for his failure in MSL, OSL. He got lucky,he got another chance. Good for him. Flash didn't get it. Sucks,life isn't fair. But let's just wait till the Gom finals,and don't think that Bisu will just give away the matches. I personally hope for a good match because I am a fan of both of them. Bisu is not the most dominant player right now,but Jangbi wasn't either. Flash had the chance,but he fucked up. Now JD has his,if he can beat Bisu,he should be no1. If he can't,well,tell me a better option for no1 than Bisu. Good luck with finding one.
What do you mean by Flash chokes under pressure. The guy has gone the most consistently deep along with Jaedong in Starleagues over the last year and a half, as well as dominate proleague. And when Flash loses he rarely rolls over and dies or tries to cheese and fail because he knows he can't hang with someone. Fact is, he's one of the top three best players in the world skill-wise AND results-wise.
Starcraft is much more like baseball than basketball. That's just the inherent nature of some competitive activities. Superstars have a mid 60-70 win rate, just like super baseball teams. In basketball 80-85% is possible for good teams. Look at how different the game has become in terms of SL winners, you don't see runs like you used to in the early days.
Name any other player besides Jaedong that has been that consistent in both SL and PL over the last year and a half, before you start talking about choking. Also, in sports, there is a lot of debate over the overly broad application of the terms choke/clutch. Of course there are great examples in all sports of that phenomenon, and mentally some people just cannot handle pressure. Sea might be a good example in Starcraft, but in general, people try to apply choke and clutch to way too many situations when it's just not warranted. Sometimes a loss is just a loss.
I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol. And Hwasin and upmagic have been playing good but don't forget that Flash went 2-1 against Hwasin, and upmagic is also out of both leagues. If the presence of a player in a SL means so much then shit lets put Kwanro over Flash too! And by the same reasoning, since Stork, Leta, and Luxury are still in both SLs where as Bisu and Jaedong are only in one, why not put Stork, Leta, and Luxury as #1 - #3, because you all know that 2 starleagues > 1 right?
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
On February 21 2009 04:11 Lockon Stratos wrote: And Hwasin and upmagic have been playing good but don't forget that Flash went 2-1 against Hwasin, and upmagic is also out of both leagues. If the presence of a player in a SL means so much then shit lets put Kwanro over Flash too! And by the same reasoning, since Stork, Leta, and Luxury are still in both SLs where as Bisu and Jaedong are only in one, why not put Stork, Leta, and Luxury as #1 - #3, because you all know that 2 starleagues > 1 right?
I never brought up Starleagues. Right now, it's true that Kwanro is on a higher level than Flash in terms of concrete results in Starleagues, though that could change any time. Flash is obviously even now better than Kwanro in terms of skill at the game.
The people who I put forth as other "top players" all seem to equal or surpass Flash in game skill (in my opinion, of course), and most certainly surpass him in results.
the one thing I like about the current situation with flash, is the hole confusion about whether or not he must be applied the same criteria as all the busy schedule guys, before him, who managed to fail just like the ultimate weapon did. if there is a player capable of winning all individual leagues in a given season that must be flash, and because we all know that, many ppl get extremely surprised when the kid is doing bad. Flash is a victim of the high expectations of his fanbase and the community in general. We all expect the trophies, we all wait for the results, because all the little monster needs is 2 or 3 badges to be established as the new bonjwa. For the second season in a row the titles are slipping away, but just because , like I said, we all think those will eventually come, Flash would never lose his status as the top terran, even maybe the best player in the scene. Thats why ppl are so forgiving about him. After so many games and tournaments his losses are still considered unnatural
I still question Leta's ability to handle a true PvT beast like Stork, Jangbi, Best or Bisu. Not to say he can't, just that I haven't seen him do that yet, so that is why I wouldn't put him over Flash just quite yet.
Flash losing that match against Up by the way doesn't mean he's a choker. You forget that all three games he won before that were must wins. That's 3-1 in "ace" matches in that series.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
I haven't watched Fantasy vs. Tempest, so obviously I can't comment.
But Leta didn't cheese Flash in the second game, and Leta won that pretty easily.
Leta did in fact BBS in game 3, but I have a suspicion that if Flash had BBS rushed Leta rather than the other way around, Flash fans would be talking about his cleverness in a BoX series, and I would be whining about cheese.
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
He sucks.
Nice logic there smart ass.
Hey kid relax, take some time to cool down and maybe go to a psychiatrist to see if they can fix the fact that you said "money" instead of "monkey" three times out of four. And maybe they can treat your anger issues too! That would be great. baibai nao~
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
I haven't watched Fantasy vs. Tempest, so obviously I can't comment.
But Leta didn't cheese Flash in the second game, and Leta won that pretty easily.
Leta did in fact BBS in game 3, but I have a suspicion that if Flash had BBS rushed Leta rather than the other way around, Flash fans would be talking about his cleverness in a BoX series, and I would be whining about cheese.
You know, rather than the other way around.
Where in my post did I "whine" about how Leta beat Flash? I accepted the fact that Leta won the game and that Flash lost. I never mentioned anything about the fairness of Leta's method, I just made observations that Leta won the deciding match against Flash the same way Tempest won his against fantasy. You are the one trying to make it look like I'm complaining of how cheesy Leta is in order to dodge my question... You cannot justify Leta being better than Flash anymore than you can justify Tempest being better than fantasy. Its clear who the better player is in both cases.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
Haha. Look at this guy trying to spin things. I'm not arguing whether or not it's the same thing, but you're obviously trying to spin things. Fantasy beat Tempest soundly, then got cheesed next game. That's the example you're using... And then you say the same thing with Flash and Leta OMITTING the game 2 intentionally just so you can say "Flash beat Leta then Leta cheeses him." You need a better analogy instead of spinning things around like that. I notice almost all of your posts are illogical spins.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
I haven't watched Fantasy vs. Tempest, so obviously I can't comment.
But Leta didn't cheese Flash in the second game, and Leta won that pretty easily.
Leta did in fact BBS in game 3, but I have a suspicion that if Flash had BBS rushed Leta rather than the other way around, Flash fans would be talking about his cleverness in a BoX series, and I would be whining about cheese.
You know, rather than the other way around.
Where in my post did I "whine" about how Leta beat Flash? I accepted the fact that Leta won the game and that Flash lost. I never mentioned anything about the fairness of Leta's method, I just made observations that Leta won the deciding match against Flash the same way Tempest won his against fantasy. You are the one trying to make it look like I'm complaining of how cheesy Leta is in order to dodge my question... You cannot justify Leta being better than Flash anymore than you can justify Tempest being better than fantasy. Its clear who the better player is in both cases.
Let's try to put this in your language. Flash losing to Leta in game three is like a cobra fighting a mongoose in the Himalayas on a Tuesday in the middle of July.
Can you say that the mongoose deserved to lose because it died of hypothermia?
Saying that Flash lost to Leta's cheese is the same thing.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
Haha. Look at this guy trying to spin things. I'm not arguing whether or not it's the same thing, but you're obviously trying to spin things. Fantasy beat Tempest soundly, then got cheesed next game. That's the example you're using... And then you say the same thing with Flash and Leta OMITTING the game 2 intentionally just so you can say "Flash beat Leta then Leta cheeses him." You need a better analogy instead of spinning things around like that. I notice almost all of your posts are illogical spins.
Hey retard, learn to read:
Leta won the deciding match against Flash the same way Tempest won his against fantasy.
Notice I explicitly stated the deciding game. I stated it right then and there because I knew retards like you would try to pull that.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
Haha. Look at this guy trying to spin things. I'm not arguing whether or not it's the same thing, but you're obviously trying to spin things. Fantasy beat Tempest soundly, then got cheesed next game. That's the example you're using... And then you say the same thing with Flash and Leta OMITTING the game 2 intentionally just so you can say "Flash beat Leta then Leta cheeses him." You need a better analogy instead of spinning things around like that. I notice almost all of your posts are illogical spins.
Leta won the deciding match against Flash the same way Tempest won his against fantasy.
Notice I explicitly stated the deciding game. I stated it right then and there because I knew retards like you would try to pull that.
I don`t know what "retard" has to do with anything. I don`t get it why some people get pissed off so badly when they are contradicting each other. It`s a conversation, everyone explains his oppinions...biased or not, we all have the right to say our oppinion, if it's said in a mannered way of course. If he said that u are a dodger, you can argue with that of course, but why do you need to insult him?! I`m not protecting anyone, I don`t even know who that guy is, but you people need to chill and stop getting so pissed of at every little thingy.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
Nah, JD is just droppin` games, so that Bisu`ll think he's weak. Prepare for a 3-0 rape, JD takes no hostages!
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
There's still 10 days left, a lot can change, just look at Flash.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
Nah, JD is just droppin` games, so that Bisu`ll think he's weak. Prepare for a 3-0 rape, JD takes no hostages!
Haha definitely a wishful theory. I definitely see a chance for Jaedong to win the series, not 3-0, maybe 3-1 and most likely 3-2, but I am hoping Bisu 3-2. I am a fan but I don't let it blind me, Jaedong is a great player and Bisu isn't invincible.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
There's still 10 days left, a lot can change, just look at Flash.
Which is why I said we will see more soon, but so far I don't think anyone can argue that he is becoming more of a favorite for the number one spot as other players drop the ball here and there. If he drops the ball, then it will be a different story. But right NOW, that is how I see it.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
Nah, JD is just droppin` games, so that Bisu`ll think he's weak. Prepare for a 3-0 rape, JD takes no hostages!
Haha definitely a wishful theory. I definitely see a chance for Jaedong to win the series, not 3-0, maybe 3-1 and most likely 3-2, but I am hoping Bisu 3-2. I am a fan but I don't let it blind me, Jaedong is a great player and Bisu isn't invincible.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
There's still 10 days left, a lot can change, just look at Flash.
Which is why I said we will see more soon, but so far I don't think anyone can argue that he is becoming more of a favorite for the number one spot as other players drop the ball here and there. If he drops the ball, then it will be a different story. But right NOW, that is how I see it.
Nah, I was just hyping things up. It would've been great if all 5 games would be played on BlueStorm... oh what am I sayin`, it will be great anyway
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
Nah, JD is just droppin` games, so that Bisu`ll think he's weak. Prepare for a 3-0 rape, JD takes no hostages!
Haha definitely a wishful theory. I definitely see a chance for Jaedong to win the series, not 3-0, maybe 3-1 and most likely 3-2, but I am hoping Bisu 3-2. I am a fan but I don't let it blind me, Jaedong is a great player and Bisu isn't invincible.
It's that's the best argument to be brought up, then I'm pretty happy. + Show Spoiler +
I know you're joking
I'm joking about that being the reason, but I am not joking about the PR prediction. We will see more soon, but day by day it seems Bisu is holding it down more and more imo.
There's still 10 days left, a lot can change, just look at Flash.
Which is why I said we will see more soon, but so far I don't think anyone can argue that he is becoming more of a favorite for the number one spot as other players drop the ball here and there. If he drops the ball, then it will be a different story. But right NOW, that is how I see it.
Nah, I was just hyping things up. It would've been great if all 5 games would be played on BlueStorm... oh what am I sayin`, it will be great anyway
I know ;]
I'm sure they can be epic on any map really... Put them on Paradoxxx and it would still be sick.
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
He sucks.
Nice logic there smart ass.
Hey kid relax, take some time to cool down and maybe go to a psychiatrist to see if they can fix the fact that you said "money" instead of "monkey" three times out of four. And maybe they can treat your anger issues too! That would be great. baibai nao~
So a made a typo, big deal, it happens when typing fast on forums. As for me needing a psychiatrist, well it's nothing personal ***hole, so don't take it that way, maybe you should see one too. And please don't call me a kid, I'm probably older than you.
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
He sucks.
Nice logic there smart ass.
Hey kid relax, take some time to cool down and maybe go to a psychiatrist to see if they can fix the fact that you said "money" instead of "monkey" three times out of four. And maybe they can treat your anger issues too! That would be great. baibai nao~
So a made a typo, big deal, it happens when typing fast on forums. As for me needing a psychiatrist, well it's nothing personal ***hole, so don't take it that way, maybe you should see one too. And please don't call me a kid, I'm probably older than you.
It's a matter of self-worth, if you don't put in the effort to make your posts legible, logical, and well-constructed then why the fuck should I put in the time to read it? Why should I care about what you say when you sound like a retard and when you say "a" instead of "I"? No need, but it is worth putting in time to shoving it in your face (on top of your shitty argument/statement that was relevant to this thread).
On February 21 2009 03:52 Zozma wrote: I just need to get this off my chest. It's been building up for a while.
FLASH IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW.
I think Bisu is the best player right now. Jaedong is certainly playing better than Flash lately, despite being in pretty much the same situation as far as WL goes. Leta, Hwasin, and UpMagic have all been putting forth strong showings, and Flash isn't even the undisputed best Terran player at this point.
Ok I can see how Flash may not be the best overall player right now, but to say that he's not the best Terran player is going too far. Who is the best Terran player then? Leta? Saying Leta is better than Flash is like saying Tempest is better than fantasy lol.
No... it's not much like that at all. I think Leta is better than Flash. It's just my opinion, but the fact that Leta beat Flash in their MSL matches certainly helps my argument.
No? Why not? fantasy destroyed tempest in their first match; Flash destroyed Leta in their first match. But then tempest cheeses fantasy, kicking him out of the MSL; Leta cheeses Flash, kicking Flash out of the MSL. Looks like the same situation to me. So if you say Leta is better than Flash, then you have to consider Tempest over fantasy by the same logic.
Haha. Look at this guy trying to spin things. I'm not arguing whether or not it's the same thing, but you're obviously trying to spin things. Fantasy beat Tempest soundly, then got cheesed next game. That's the example you're using... And then you say the same thing with Flash and Leta OMITTING the game 2 intentionally just so you can say "Flash beat Leta then Leta cheeses him." You need a better analogy instead of spinning things around like that. I notice almost all of your posts are illogical spins.
Leta won the deciding match against Flash the same way Tempest won his against fantasy.
Notice I explicitly stated the deciding game. I stated it right then and there because I knew retards like you would try to pull that.
Check which post I'm responding to. Check the timestamps between my post and the post you're referencing. Did it occur to you that it wasn't there while I was responding? You typed that up in response to someone else criticizing the same post I was ignoring Leta's ownage of Flash in Game 2.
And THEN you decide to use your new post to someone criticizing your old post to my post which criticizes your old post, too? My post was only 10 minutes after -- maybe I should have typed faster. Sucks, but you should think, idiot.
Everyone seems to throw the fire on KTF for having Flash play 5 games on the day of his OSL, which could possibly make his OSL loss less damning (especially since he lost to BeSt, who's incredibly skilled at PvT in his own right). But people also conveniently seem to mention that "he played 7 games over two days" rather than saying that the games were split 5:2, with the MSL set being the only games he had to play on the second day. Flash didn't play badly game 2 of his set vs Leta, but was at an early disadvantage after Leta hit a timing nerve on game 2 (with a few small mistakes), while he got cheesed out on the second game. It's not the schedule that lost him his MSL games, but rather a combination of a nice move on leta's end and being at the receiving end of a cheese. This however, could (and does) happen to any gamer. Flash is not pardoned for his loss out of the MSL because this happened to him.
Bisu just all-killed OGN, and made it look easy. In his game vs Leta, he got a big lead, killed a push, and then jacked off the rest of the game and still won. Bisu looks strong as hell right now. Within the last month, Bisu has shown us that Probes>4gate goon, and Probes>2hatch hydra.
Bisu just all-killed OGN, and made it look easy. In his game vs Leta, he got a big lead, killed a push, and then jacked off the rest of the game and still won. Bisu looks strong as hell right now. Within the last month, Bisu has shown us that Probes>4gate goon, and Probes>2hatch hydra.
Bisu just all-killed OGN, and made it look easy. In his game vs Leta, he got a big lead, killed a push, and then jacked off the rest of the game and still won. Bisu looks strong as hell right now. Within the last month, Bisu has shown us that Probes>4gate goon, and Probes>2hatch hydra.
I don't think you can honestly make an argument for Flash as #1 now. Even if he's playing great and has some excuse for dropping games due to his schedule, not being in either league hurts. And Bisu is still Bisu, though I still think he's lost that aura of invincibility a bit (haven't seen his recent WL games).
But I think trying to say Leta is better than Flash is absolutely ridiculous.
And I'd say right now the question is whether Jaedong should go over Flash, and that question will probably be answered before the month is over.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
What? People have the nerve to complain about someone cheesing Flash, when in his first OSL he cheesed pretty much every game? Karma would be a fitting word.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
What? People have the nerve to complain about someone cheesing Flash, when in his first OSL he cheesed pretty much every game? Karma would be a fitting word.
I don't think it's any more absurd than people who complain Flash is a standard and boring player.
On February 22 2009 22:14 theonemephisto wrote: I don't think you can honestly make an argument for Flash as #1 now. Even if he's playing great and has some excuse for dropping games due to his schedule, not being in either league hurts. And Bisu is still Bisu, though I still think he's lost that aura of invincibility a bit (haven't seen his recent WL games).
But I think trying to say Leta is better than Flash is absolutely ridiculous.
And I'd say right now the question is whether Jaedong should go over Flash, and that question will probably be answered before the month is over.
I don't think anyone is trying to make that argument any more. It has to be Bisu #1 right now I think unless something ridiculous happens in the last week. He's playing really well. Leta should probably be top 3 for being in both leagues but I don't think anyone has really been impressed with his play lately despite that.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
What? People have the nerve to complain about someone cheesing Flash, when in his first OSL he cheesed pretty much every game? Karma would be a fitting word.
I don't really have a problem with cheesing in the middle of a series for psychological effect... but cheesing the deciding game is kinda corny IMO. Depriving the audience of seeing a final "good" game just doesn't seem right.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
He did! We all know JangBi is a better player, and he's more accomplished than Bisu...who heard of Bisu before ? no one.
Good joke. 3 MSL golds, one OSL gold, a GOM tv win against a GOM tv silver and a MSL silver, both losses to Bisu. Bisu dominated pro scene for a year and he's still been one of the best players for months.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
What? People have the nerve to complain about someone cheesing Flash, when in his first OSL he cheesed pretty much every game? Karma would be a fitting word.
I don't really have a problem with cheesing in the middle of a series for psychological effect... but cheesing the deciding game is kinda corny IMO. Depriving the audience of seeing a final "good" game just doesn't seem right.
(yes, I know this is a double standard -_-)
A win is a win, if you lose, then you go home. There's nothing wrong with cheesing. It takes skill to pull off successfully and if you fail, you will most likely lose the game.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
He did! We all know JangBi is a better player, and he's more accomplished than Bisu...who heard of Bisu before ? no one.
Good joke. 3 MSL golds, one OSL gold, a GOM tv win against a GOM tv silver and a MSL silver, both losses to Bisu. Bisu dominated pro scene for a year and he's still been one of the best players for months.
What??? Did Bisu win an OSL while I wasn't looking?
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
He did! We all know JangBi is a better player, and he's more accomplished than Bisu...who heard of Bisu before ? no one.
Good joke. 3 MSL golds, one OSL gold, a GOM tv win against a GOM tv silver and a MSL silver, both losses to Bisu. Bisu dominated pro scene for a year and he's still been one of the best players for months.
What??? Did Bisu win an OSL while I wasn't looking?
yeah he sneaked a couple DTs behind the trophy and slayed the winner
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
He did! We all know JangBi is a better player, and he's more accomplished than Bisu...who heard of Bisu before ? no one.
Good joke. 3 MSL golds, one OSL gold, a GOM tv win against a GOM tv silver and a MSL silver, both losses to Bisu. Bisu dominated pro scene for a year and he's still been one of the best players for months.
OSL gold? When? He hasn't won any OSL's while I've been around.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
He did! We all know JangBi is a better player, and he's more accomplished than Bisu...who heard of Bisu before ? no one.
Good joke. 3 MSL golds, one OSL gold, a GOM tv win against a GOM tv silver and a MSL silver, both losses to Bisu. Bisu dominated pro scene for a year and he's still been one of the best players for months.
OSL gold? When? He hasn't won any OSL's while I've been around.
On February 24 2009 00:04 Supah wrote: hyvaa for a low powerrank spot this month? Really have impressed me at least.
I agree, 9 or 10 at least - his defiler use is really impressive. In his last 10 games, he has only lost to Flash, making him 9-1 with wins over the likes of Luxury, Hwasin, July.
Hyvaa's played really well and in the past good ProLeague players have gotten the 9 or 10 spot even without individual league success, but it still might be too soon.
On February 24 2009 02:01 Jaksiel wrote: Hyvaa's played really well and in the past good ProLeague players have gotten the 9 or 10 spot even without individual league success, but it still might be too soon.
Yeah,especially given the fact that Zero has been a relibale player for his team for months now,is good in the MSL and has never seen a ranking yet.
My mistake, he came in third, which is still an accomplishment. And doesn't change the fact that he's still more accomplished than Jangbi which was the original point.
On February 24 2009 06:08 ghostWriter wrote: My mistake, he came in third, which is still an accomplishment. And doesn't change the fact that he's still more accomplished than Jangbi which was the original point.
the original "point" was in fact a huge troll. and you fell for it.
On February 24 2009 02:01 Jaksiel wrote: Hyvaa's played really well and in the past good ProLeague players have gotten the 9 or 10 spot even without individual league success, but it still might be too soon.
Yeah,especially given the fact that Zero has been a relibale player for his team for months now,is good in the MSL and has never seen a ranking yet.
I'm thinking (hoping?) Zero will get on next month's PR if he beats Savior.
On February 24 2009 06:08 ghostWriter wrote: My mistake, he came in third, which is still an accomplishment. And doesn't change the fact that he's still more accomplished than Jangbi which was the original point.
the original "point" was in fact a huge troll. and you fell for it.
It's called sarcasm to prove a point. He was emulating another poster to point out how illogical his argument was.
On February 21 2009 22:55 Shikyo wrote: Sigh at these Leta vs Flash arguments. It's like saying Bisu cheesed the MSL gold off Jangbi. -_- Just stupid.
What? People have the nerve to complain about someone cheesing Flash, when in his first OSL he cheesed pretty much every game? Karma would be a fitting word.
I don't really have a problem with cheesing in the middle of a series for psychological effect... but cheesing the deciding game is kinda corny IMO. Depriving the audience of seeing a final "good" game just doesn't seem right.
(yes, I know this is a double standard -_-)
A win is a win, if you lose, then you go home. There's nothing wrong with cheesing. It takes skill to pull off successfully and if you fail, you will most likely lose the game.
I personally think that part of the reason that Flash has been slumping (kind of) is the fact that he really hasn't been cheesing at all recently. It's kind of weird because we all know that he's really, really good at it.
But even if you drop a game or two due to failed cheese, it's good to make your opponent overly cautious and not let him be comfortable at any point during a match. Forcing him to jump through a few extra hoops and making him waste a little bit of time is just the kind of advantage that Flash can exploit. But if the only time Flash ever cheeses is when he's already got a group won, then Flash's opponent can try whatever build order strategy he's prepared without any fear.
So, in short, I think Flash should cheese more. Who knows, maybe they'll get so scared of cheese that he'll be able to 14CC every time.
EDIT: Also, is it possible we might see Hyvaa on here soon?
If you can devise a build that can win TvP with MnMs, then that is as good as cheesing.
I think flash has played great for the past month.. and I think that was because he was varying his builds quite a bit. Though he has been shown to have weaknesses against wraiths in TvT.. upmagic exploited it twice, and leta followed suit.. I'm not sure if they were pure BO losses, but flash responded pretty poorly to them each time, and hence, lost 3 TvTs in a row - his best matchup.
On February 24 2009 06:08 ghostWriter wrote: My mistake, he came in third, which is still an accomplishment. And doesn't change the fact that he's still more accomplished than Jangbi which was the original point.
the original "point" was in fact a huge troll. and you fell for it.
It's called sarcasm to prove a point. He was emulating another poster to point out how illogical his argument was.
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
He sucks.
Nice logic there smart ass.
Hey kid relax, take some time to cool down and maybe go to a psychiatrist to see if they can fix the fact that you said "money" instead of "monkey" three times out of four. And maybe they can treat your anger issues too! That would be great. baibai nao~
So a made a typo, big deal, it happens when typing fast on forums. As for me needing a psychiatrist, well it's nothing personal ***hole, so don't take it that way, maybe you should see one too. And please don't call me a kid, I'm probably older than you.
It's a matter of self-worth, if you don't put in the effort to make your posts legible, logical, and well-constructed then why the fuck should I put in the time to read it? Why should I care about what you say when you sound like a retard and when you say "a" instead of "I"? No need, but it is worth putting in time to shoving it in your face (on top of your shitty argument/statement that was relevant to this thread).
What does self worth have to do with arguing about power-rankings? That doesn't make sense, as far as I can tell your just a worthless bastard. And where in my post that I said that you should care what I say? Again your not making sense, and I'll post whatever I want whether you read it or not.
And what the fuck are you talking about "a" instead of "I"? Like I said type typos on forums, which is very common on net. The fact that you think it's worth putting time arguing with me totally contradicts to what you said. Then you have the nerve to say my post isn't well constructed? But you post something stupid like "stork sucks", yeah nice counter argument there dumb ass. As for my shitty arguments, well your just a clown who incite flame wars. Now that was worth shoving down your face you fucking piece of dog shit.
It has nothing do with the bastard being wrong. He was talking shit, got me angry, and I responded back. Your insult was totally off the mark, and it's morning in California.
It has nothing do with me being wrong. He was talking shit, got me angry, and I responded back. Your insult was totally off the mark, and it's morning time in California.
Good job at taking offense to everything. You're either a very good troll, or an old bitter man. If it's the latter, grats on using the internet. Working in IT has taught me that old people traditionally are terrible at it. You, sir, have overcome your handicaps. Kudos.
On February 24 2009 14:13 Tyxiquale wrote: If you can devise a build that can win TvP with MnMs, then that is as good as cheesing.
I think flash has played great for the past month.. and I think that was because he was varying his builds quite a bit. Though he has been shown to have weaknesses against wraiths in TvT.. upmagic exploited it twice, and leta followed suit.. I'm not sure if they were pure BO losses, but flash responded pretty poorly to them each time, and hence, lost 3 TvTs in a row - his best matchup.
On February 24 2009 14:13 Tyxiquale wrote: If you can devise a build that can win TvP with MnMs, then that is as good as cheesing.
I think flash has played great for the past month.. and I think that was because he was varying his builds quite a bit. Though he has been shown to have weaknesses against wraiths in TvT.. upmagic exploited it twice, and leta followed suit.. I'm not sure if they were pure BO losses, but flash responded pretty poorly to them each time, and hence, lost 3 TvTs in a row - his best matchup.
So many people playing AMAZING right now, that this is gonna be hard as hell.
Notice and hyvaa playing incredibly in the proleague, anytime and reach doing good.
FlaSh, Jaedong, Bisu, and Jangbi are terrifying.
sAviOr, by.great, Luxury, and ZerO have been playing some kick-ass starcraft recently too. There's gonna be a big CBNC this month, at least there should be.
On February 20 2009 11:19 Tinithor wrote: Anyone notice that Stork is still in contention for both leagues as well? No one gives a shit bout stork anymore i suppose.
He sucks.
Nice logic there smart ass.
Hey kid relax, take some time to cool down and maybe go to a psychiatrist to see if they can fix the fact that you said "money" instead of "monkey" three times out of four. And maybe they can treat your anger issues too! That would be great. baibai nao~
So a made a typo, big deal, it happens when typing fast on forums. As for me needing a psychiatrist, well it's nothing personal ***hole, so don't take it that way, maybe you should see one too. And please don't call me a kid, I'm probably older than you.
It's a matter of self-worth, if you don't put in the effort to make your posts legible, logical, and well-constructed then why the fuck should I put in the time to read it? Why should I care about what you say when you sound like a retard and when you say "a" instead of "I"? No need, but it is worth putting in time to shoving it in your face (on top of your shitty argument/statement that was relevant to this thread).
What does self worth have to do with arguing about power-rankings? That doesn't make sense, as far as I can tell your just a worthless bastard. And where in my post that I said that you should care what I say? Again your not making sense, and I'll post whatever I want whether you read it or not.
And what the fuck are you talking about "a" instead of "I"? Like I said type typos on forums, which is very common on net. The fact that you think it's worth putting time arguing with me totally contradicts to what you said. Then you have the nerve to say my post isn't well constructed? But you post something stupid like "stork sucks", yeah nice counter argument there dumb ass. As for my shitty arguments, well your just a clown who incite flame wars. Now that was worth shoving down your face you fucking dumb ass.
You're** x2, "I** type typos..."
Calm down buddy, no need to get all excited. I thought that one temp ban for the both of us was enough, I guess not.
The simple fact that you responded again is enough to warrant a temp ban imo. You don't seem to understand what your last one was for. Just stop stirring the crap, and let's everybody drop it and move to brighter horizons.
On February 25 2009 08:40 GGQ wrote: The simple fact that you responded again is enough to warrant a temp ban imo. You don't seem to understand what your last one was for. Just stop stirring the crap, and let's everybody drop it and move to brighter horizons.
Did I respond with some anger-filled insulting post, like the one he made to me? No. Please learn your place in terms of telling others what to do or not do and whether or not it qualifies as a ban-able offense. Stop stirring crap, and let's drop it.
Nothing besides FireGuyX's post was a bannable offense.
Stop replying to people if they make a post that is ban-worthy. Do not tell them it's ban-worthy, do not tell them they are being stupid. Don't backseat moderate. Us moderators are here for a reason and we will handle these sorts of things.
On February 25 2009 18:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Nothing besides FireGuyX's post was a bannable offense.
Stop replying to people if they make a post that is ban-worthy. Do not tell them it's ban-worthy, do not tell them they are being stupid. Don't backseat moderate. Us moderators are here for a reason and we will handle these sorts of things.
Cut the crap, boys
btw steve are you going to be writing this month's PR? Do you think Bisu's performance recently will give him number 1 over say Jaedong, or is it depending on their incoming match?
On February 25 2009 05:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So many people playing AMAZING right now, that this is gonna be hard as hell.
Notice and hyvaa playing incredibly in the proleague, anytime and reach doing good.
FlaSh, Jaedong, Bisu, and Jangbi are terrifying.
sAviOr, by.great, Luxury, and ZerO have been playing some kick-ass starcraft recently too. There's gonna be a big CBNC this month, at least there should be.
Luxury should be top # 5 right now in the PR with his success in the leagues so far and not CBNC if that is what you are saying . He is playing great starcraft , althought he sometimes sucks in WL . Flash well what can i say he is playing great so far , but do to misfortune he might drop a few spots .
On February 25 2009 05:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So many people playing AMAZING right now, that this is gonna be hard as hell.
Notice and hyvaa playing incredibly in the proleague, anytime and reach doing good.
FlaSh, Jaedong, Bisu, and Jangbi are terrifying.
sAviOr, by.great, Luxury, and ZerO have been playing some kick-ass starcraft recently too. There's gonna be a big CBNC this month, at least there should be.
Luxury should be top # 5 right now in the PR with his success in the leagues so far and not CBNC if that is what you are saying . He is playing great starcraft , althought he sometimes sucks in WL . Flash well what can i say he is playing great so far , but do to misfortune he might drop a few spots .
i'm not sure i'd put lux that high, but i'll hold off on really saying anything til his match vs leta. that should be a good marker for each of them. i think lux will take that series btw
Its certainly fortunate for Zero, but despite how much respect I have for Zero as a player, he is really really unproven in ZvT and ZvP. He plays some great games, he plays some awful games. A larger sample size is needed.
However, hyvaa is 9-1 in his last 10 against some pretty tough competition, he's playing really well. That's deserving of a low spot for sure, we've always got one or two ProLeague surprises in here it seems.
I don't see why you absolutely can't put Bisu over Jaedong in that case. As someone pointed out, Bisu's statistics since Jan 1st are a little better than Jaedong's, and his GSL win is > Jaedong's win of nothing. I think that as long as it's not 3-0 or 3-1 brutal rape JD>Bisu, then Bisu should have the #1 rank even if he loses 3-2 or something.
EDIT: Although, this is all just hypothetical, since Bisu will win n_n
So Stork for 10th this month again? Although it certainly wasn't pretty, he did what he had to do, and thus is in both leagues. Got to be worth at least 10th
So Stork for 10th this month again? Although it certainly wasn't pretty, he did what he had to do, and thus is in both leagues. Got to be worth at least 10th
Yes, Stork did just fuck around and wallowing in mediocrity for the past couple of months. But the fact that he advance to the Ro8 in both starleagues in his WORST matchup is pretty convincing. Especially when you beat Yarnc and July in a zerg-favored map pool.
I think he's below Leta/Bisu/Jaedong/Luxuy/Jangbi/Flash. But that's about it.
The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
It's kind of hilarious and ironic due to his recent history of sloppy half-assed play, but right now Stork should be #6. He, Leta, and Hwasin are all kind of similar with playing in the starleagues and sucking in the proleague. Except Stork's the only one still in both. And going 3-0(I don't count any PvZ loss on that atrocity of a map a real loss) in the elimination stage is quite impressive.
Hyvaa has no place in the discussion except at perhaps #10, because pure proleague is fairly meaningness. This should be obvious given Leta's mediocre showing in the WL now that he has extra practice.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
I think Stork should be above hyvaa , Hwasin and Leta ( he is way overrated at the moment ... )
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
It's kind of hilarious and ironic due to his recent history of sloppy half-assed play, but right now Stork should be #6. He, Leta, and Hwasin are all kind of similar with playing in the starleagues and sucking in the proleague. Except Stork's the only one still in both. And going 3-0(I don't count any PvZ loss on that atrocity of a map a real loss) in the elimination stage is quite impressive.
Hyvaa has no place in the discussion except at perhaps #10, because pure proleague is fairly meaningness. This should be obvious given Leta's mediocre showing in the WL now that he has extra practice.
I think Hwasin should be above Stork. He only had few matches in WL,and performed a semi-old kill against KTF. Other than that,his only embarassing loss was against Hwasin,and didn't suck nearly as much as Stork. Other than that he qualified from the group of death of MSL,and his OSL group was fucking hard too. He beat Flash,JD,and Best,wow. Meanwhile Stork beat Kwanro,who sucks. Yarnc sucks even more. He did manage to beat July tho. That is the only impressive victory he achieved this past month. He should be perhaps on 7 because he is in both leagues,but in no case higher because he sucked and his matches weren't impressive at all. Beat Jaedong and I will say otherwise.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
Although I would rate Flash as a stronger overall player than Jangbi, Jangbi performed really well this month so he probably deserves a spot over Flash (I'm choking myself as I say this)
On February 27 2009 20:56 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Bisu should get #1 no matter if he loses or wins ..
He just did play too good lately
Not only in terms of results .. but if u watched him playing..
#1
period
( imo )
I slightly disagree, I feel that he should be #1 unless Jaedong beats him really badly, or a 3-0, thought that's very unlikely.
Agreed 100%; Bisu's play has been incredibly powerful lately so he almost has to be #1, but if Jaedong manages to somehow just make him look completely silly with some mind blowingly incredible display of ZvP I don't think anyone would be able to deny his right to that top spot. And seeing Hyvaa on the PR would be awesome as well, he's been playing great in WL.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
It's kind of hilarious and ironic due to his recent history of sloppy half-assed play, but right now Stork should be #6. He, Leta, and Hwasin are all kind of similar with playing in the starleagues and sucking in the proleague. Except Stork's the only one still in both. And going 3-0(I don't count any PvZ loss on that atrocity of a map a real loss) in the elimination stage is quite impressive.
Hyvaa has no place in the discussion except at perhaps #10, because pure proleague is fairly meaningness. This should be obvious given Leta's mediocre showing in the WL now that he has extra practice.
I think Hwasin should be above Stork. He only had few matches in WL,and performed a semi-old kill against KTF. Other than that,his only embarassing loss was against Hwasin,and didn't suck nearly as much as Stork. Other than that he qualified from the group of death of MSL,and his OSL group was fucking hard too. He beat Flash,JD,and Best,wow. Meanwhile Stork beat Kwanro,who sucks. Yarnc sucks even more. He did manage to beat July tho. That is the only impressive victory he achieved this past month. He should be perhaps on 7 because he is in both leagues,but in no case higher because he sucked and his matches weren't impressive at all. Beat Jaedong and I will say otherwise.
The way you presented your argument is already a testament to why Stork should be higher. You didn't even mention ForGG(who incidently beat Free later), because Stork's PvT is so good no one counts his PvT wins anymore except maybe against Flash. We naturally assume he'll win any PvT and not give him any credit. i.e. the sort of "fear factor" Mani uses.
Btw, Hwasin had the best draws possible, because he is a TvZ specialist. His win against Best was impressive, but his win vs. Flash was a BO win. And then he lost TvZ, his best matchup, in the MSL. Meanwhile, Stork faced his WORST matchup and went through.
WL wise, Hwasin is 3-4(1-and-done 3 times). Stork is 5-5(1-and-done 1 time). So I'm not sure what you're smoking when you actually give him credit here. Hwasin has always been a proleague doormat.
Edit: Coincidently, STX faces Khan soon. So we'll see.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
It's kind of hilarious and ironic due to his recent history of sloppy half-assed play, but right now Stork should be #6. He, Leta, and Hwasin are all kind of similar with playing in the starleagues and sucking in the proleague. Except Stork's the only one still in both. And going 3-0(I don't count any PvZ loss on that atrocity of a map a real loss) in the elimination stage is quite impressive.
Hyvaa has no place in the discussion except at perhaps #10, because pure proleague is fairly meaningness. This should be obvious given Leta's mediocre showing in the WL now that he has extra practice.
I think Hwasin should be above Stork. He only had few matches in WL,and performed a semi-old kill against KTF. Other than that,his only embarassing loss was against Hwasin,and didn't suck nearly as much as Stork. Other than that he qualified from the group of death of MSL,and his OSL group was fucking hard too. He beat Flash,JD,and Best,wow. Meanwhile Stork beat Kwanro,who sucks. Yarnc sucks even more. He did manage to beat July tho. That is the only impressive victory he achieved this past month. He should be perhaps on 7 because he is in both leagues,but in no case higher because he sucked and his matches weren't impressive at all. Beat Jaedong and I will say otherwise.
The way you presented your argument is already a testament to why Stork should be higher. You didn't even mention ForGG(who incidently beat Free later), because Stork's PvT is so good no one counts his PvT wins anymore except maybe against Flash. We naturally assume he'll win any PvT and not give him any credit. i.e. the sort of "fear factor" Mani uses.
Btw, Hwasin had the best draws possible, because he is a TvZ specialist. His win against Best was impressive, but his win vs. Flash was a BO win. And then he lost TvZ, his best matchup, in the MSL. Meanwhile, Stork faced his WORST matchup and went through.
WL wise, Hwasin is 3-4(1-and-done 3 times). Stork is 5-5(1-and-done 1 time). So I'm not sure what you're smoking when you actually give him credit here. Hwasin has always been a proleague doormat.
Edit: Coincidently, STX faces Khan soon. So we'll see.
The problem is,Stork didn't beat ForGG yet. If h does,we can maybe take it into consideration. The other fact is that ForGG sucks major balls lately. His WL team doesn't even use him. I consider his win over Free nothing but a fluke. He won one game fairly,and cheesed Free in the other.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
It's kind of hilarious and ironic due to his recent history of sloppy half-assed play, but right now Stork should be #6. He, Leta, and Hwasin are all kind of similar with playing in the starleagues and sucking in the proleague. Except Stork's the only one still in both. And going 3-0(I don't count any PvZ loss on that atrocity of a map a real loss) in the elimination stage is quite impressive.
Hyvaa has no place in the discussion except at perhaps #10, because pure proleague is fairly meaningness. This should be obvious given Leta's mediocre showing in the WL now that he has extra practice.
I think Hwasin should be above Stork. He only had few matches in WL,and performed a semi-old kill against KTF. Other than that,his only embarassing loss was against Hwasin,and didn't suck nearly as much as Stork. Other than that he qualified from the group of death of MSL,and his OSL group was fucking hard too. He beat Flash,JD,and Best,wow. Meanwhile Stork beat Kwanro,who sucks. Yarnc sucks even more. He did manage to beat July tho. That is the only impressive victory he achieved this past month. He should be perhaps on 7 because he is in both leagues,but in no case higher because he sucked and his matches weren't impressive at all. Beat Jaedong and I will say otherwise.
The way you presented your argument is already a testament to why Stork should be higher. You didn't even mention ForGG(who incidently beat Free later), because Stork's PvT is so good no one counts his PvT wins anymore except maybe against Flash. We naturally assume he'll win any PvT and not give him any credit. i.e. the sort of "fear factor" Mani uses.
Btw, Hwasin had the best draws possible, because he is a TvZ specialist. His win against Best was impressive, but his win vs. Flash was a BO win. And then he lost TvZ, his best matchup, in the MSL. Meanwhile, Stork faced his WORST matchup and went through.
WL wise, Hwasin is 3-4(1-and-done 3 times). Stork is 5-5(1-and-done 1 time). So I'm not sure what you're smoking when you actually give him credit here. Hwasin has always been a proleague doormat.
Edit: Coincidently, STX faces Khan soon. So we'll see.
The problem is,Stork didn't beat ForGG yet. If h does,we can maybe take it into consideration. The other fact is that ForGG sucks major balls lately. His WL team doesn't even use him. I consider his win over Free nothing but a fluke. He won one game fairly,and cheesed Free in the other.
No wonder you think so little of Stork. I guess you don't watch his games.
On February 27 2009 23:53 Darth Peter wrote: The competition is stacked. I would put right now: 1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4.Flash 5.Luxury 6.Leta 7.Hwasin 8.Hyvaa 9.I have no better option than Stork,nobody comes in my mind. 10. No better option than Best,who sucks so hard in WL,but is in the OSL and eliminated Flash
I am thinking about UP too and Savior,but they lack from both leagues is a problem. Fuck that Stork should be on the PR even if he played like total shit.
It's kind of hilarious and ironic due to his recent history of sloppy half-assed play, but right now Stork should be #6. He, Leta, and Hwasin are all kind of similar with playing in the starleagues and sucking in the proleague. Except Stork's the only one still in both. And going 3-0(I don't count any PvZ loss on that atrocity of a map a real loss) in the elimination stage is quite impressive.
Hyvaa has no place in the discussion except at perhaps #10, because pure proleague is fairly meaningness. This should be obvious given Leta's mediocre showing in the WL now that he has extra practice.
I think Hwasin should be above Stork. He only had few matches in WL,and performed a semi-old kill against KTF. Other than that,his only embarassing loss was against Hwasin,and didn't suck nearly as much as Stork. Other than that he qualified from the group of death of MSL,and his OSL group was fucking hard too. He beat Flash,JD,and Best,wow. Meanwhile Stork beat Kwanro,who sucks. Yarnc sucks even more. He did manage to beat July tho. That is the only impressive victory he achieved this past month. He should be perhaps on 7 because he is in both leagues,but in no case higher because he sucked and his matches weren't impressive at all. Beat Jaedong and I will say otherwise.
The way you presented your argument is already a testament to why Stork should be higher. You didn't even mention ForGG(who incidently beat Free later), because Stork's PvT is so good no one counts his PvT wins anymore except maybe against Flash. We naturally assume he'll win any PvT and not give him any credit. i.e. the sort of "fear factor" Mani uses.
Btw, Hwasin had the best draws possible, because he is a TvZ specialist. His win against Best was impressive, but his win vs. Flash was a BO win. And then he lost TvZ, his best matchup, in the MSL. Meanwhile, Stork faced his WORST matchup and went through.
WL wise, Hwasin is 3-4(1-and-done 3 times). Stork is 5-5(1-and-done 1 time). So I'm not sure what you're smoking when you actually give him credit here. Hwasin has always been a proleague doormat.
Edit: Coincidently, STX faces Khan soon. So we'll see.
The problem is,Stork didn't beat ForGG yet. If h does,we can maybe take it into consideration. The other fact is that ForGG sucks major balls lately. His WL team doesn't even use him. I consider his win over Free nothing but a fluke. He won one game fairly,and cheesed Free in the other.
No wonder you think so little of Stork. I guess you don't watch his games.
I thought about their upcoming BO5 series,where he is the favourite,but the series is not played yet. Their last game was last month,therefore shouldn't count in this month's PR. I ma obviously a hater,but man,just look at TLPD. He lost almost every match he played this month. He beat go.go and Free,which is acceptable. Considering these facts,I can't help but watch with disgust that he somehow manages to advance in both of the leagues and therefore has to be granted a spot on the PR,even tho he sucked in WL. The bad luck I have he will advance in at least one final and win it against all odds.
I am looking at the month as a whole, although slightly weighting the end of the month, to be more representative to how I think they are RIGHT now.
1.Bisu -He set a new elo peak...twice. He's 3-0ed his OSL group, and won GSI. He was 20-5(80%) in the month of February, and has looked ridiculously good.
2. Jangbi- He did what he had to to beat his teammate Frozean in the MSL, but obviously his heart was not in the game. More impressively he's 15-5 (75%) and 3 of those losses were to Bisu, the current #1. I suppose his other wins besides 2 against Bisu and three against Free were not really that impressive.
3. Jaedong- He was 16-7(69.57%) this month, which is actually worse than Flash, but because his wins came at the end of the month, whereas flash has, towards the end of the month been rocky, I'm giving Jaedong number 3.
4. Luxury- You are awesome. You were only 12-8 (60%) but your also in two leagues, and the semi-finals of the MSL, and you've won a special place in my heart for guaranteeing a Zerg in the finals of anything.
5. Flash- Oh flashy. I wanted to put you lower than this but the goal here is to be as objective as possible based on current play and you WERE 18-7 (72%). You're below Jaedong and lux because you were just 2-0ed by Leta. AND you lost to best on tears of the protoss. But most importantly because your in neither league
6. Hyvaa- If you were doing anything besides proleague you would be much higher. But Leta has shown us proleague dominance is not equal to starleague dominance. You were 14-5 (73.68%). That's right the third best record in February. Your win list includes July, Hwasin, Luxury, and Anytime. Good job, take your sixth place. I wish you luck in starleague. Oh and I'm putting you lower than flash because if you take out his abysmal starleague play, he was doing even better than you in WL
7. Stork- Nice. Your in both leagues. Good job. But you went through hell to do it. Congratulations on an 8-8 February. You look good in your wins but your losses look stupid. I mean were you actually surprised KWANRO rushed you? All in all though you've looked ok.
8. Hwasin- You're not bad. 8-7 (53.33%), and your in the OSL, and were first in your group, although you had a loss. Nothing really to say here
9. Leta- Hey Leta...your down here for the opposite reason That stork is at 7. I like you. I think you're really good. But you're 9-10 47.43 record isn't fabulous, and your out of both leagues, although you made MSL quarters. Your losses were understandable, but then your wins were also expected.
10. Best- Your also in the OSL, but only as far as Leta made it in the MSL...quarters. Your a piddly 4-7 (41.67%) in February and honestly I'm angry that you haven't learned control from Bisu at all. You're games don't look like their getting any better and people are getting more used to your style. Step it up.
1. Bisu : Set the ELO peak twice, and has been absolutly vital to SKT in the WL. He allkilled OGN, went 2-1 vs CJ and won a triple kill vs OZ. He is 20-5 (80%) in the month of Febuary and 37 wins - 11 losses (77.08%) in 2009. He is in bonjwa god mode right now, 3-0'ing his OSL group, and is a heavy favorite to reach the finals in the OSL.
2. Jangbi : Jangbi is the Bisu of KHAN. His playstyle is just so similar; based around harrassment while macroing up a huge army. Right now, with Stork sucking shit through his eyes, Jangbi is the only reliable player for KHAN. (much like Bisu for SKT) He is 15 wins - 6 losses (71.43%) in Febuary, and is extremly close to breaking the 2300 ELO barrier.
3. Jaedong : He's just a scary motherfucker thats why. But like the 2 players ahead of him, JD is powering his team alone. (I'm on the fence with Hiya, but ForGG and Lomo just suck) But at the end of the day, Lee Jae Dong is not somebody you want to face.
4. Flash : FUCK KTF. TRADE FLASH TO WOONGIN PLZKTHANKS~
5. Hwasin : The red snipaaahh is backk and with a vengance~ 14 wins - 8 losses (63.64%) in '09, against big names such as Jaedong Flash BeST Upmagic. I was frankly shocked by his ballsy play in the MSL and OSL group and ro16 stages. The red sniper is back, and back with a fury~
6. Luxury : Lux lux lux. It's finally good to see a zerg tear shit up in the SL's. With a foot into both major starleagues, Lux is on fire. He is only this low because i dont think he's going to go far in either. In the OSL, Bisu, Jaedong, BeST, Hwasin make for a scary company, while in the MSL, he might be faced with a ZvZ finals. (wait...his best matchup...) scratch that. Lux for MSL GOLD
6. Luxury : Lux lux lux. It's finally good to see a zerg tear shit up in the SL's. With a foot into both major starleagues, Lux is on fire. He is only this low because i dont think he's going to go far in either. In the OSL, Bisu, Jaedong, BeST, Hwasin make for a scary company, while in the MSL, he might be faced with a ZvZ finals. (wait...his best matchup...) scratch that. Lux for MSL GOLD
too lazy to finsih[/QUOTE] He can't be in a Z v Z semifinal because on the other bracket there are just tosses and terrans,and he will most likely be facing Jangbi or Stork,neither of which is an easy opponent. And there is Zero too. But well said otherwise.
On March 01 2009 03:34 Darth Peter wrote: He can't be in a Z v Z semifinal because on the other bracket there are just tosses and terrans,and he will most likely be facing Jangbi or Stork,neither of which is an easy opponent. And there is Zero too. But well said otherwise.
On March 01 2009 03:09 DreaM)XeRO wrote: 1. Bisu : Set the ELO peak twice, and has been absolutly vital to SKT in the WL. He allkilled OGN, went 2-1 vs CJ and won a triple kill vs OZ. He is 20-5 (80%) in the month of Febuary and 37 wins - 11 losses (77.08%) in 2009. He is in bonjwa god mode right now, 3-0'ing his OSL group, and is a heavy favorite to reach the finals in the OSL.
2. Jangbi : Jangbi is the Bisu of KHAN. His playstyle is just so similar; based around harrassment while macroing up a huge army. Right now, with Stork sucking shit through his eyes, Jangbi is the only reliable player for KHAN. (much like Bisu for SKT) He is 15 wins - 6 losses (71.43%) in Febuary, and is extremly close to breaking the 2300 ELO barrier.
3. Jaedong : He's just a scary motherfucker thats why. But like the 2 players ahead of him, JD is powering his team alone. (I'm on the fence with Hiya, but ForGG and Lomo just suck) But at the end of the day, Lee Jae Dong is not somebody you want to face.
4. Flash : FUCK KTF. TRADE FLASH TO WOONGIN PLZKTHANKS~
5. Hwasin : The red snipaaahh is backk and with a vengance~ 14 wins - 8 losses (63.64%) in '09, against big names such as Jaedong Flash BeST Upmagic. I was frankly shocked by his ballsy play in the MSL and OSL group and ro16 stages. The red sniper is back, and back with a fury~
6. Luxury : Lux lux lux. It's finally good to see a zerg tear shit up in the SL's. With a foot into both major starleagues, Lux is on fire. He is only this low because i dont think he's going to go far in either. In the OSL, Bisu, Jaedong, BeST, Hwasin make for a scary company, while in the MSL, he might be faced with a ZvZ finals. (wait...his best matchup...) scratch that. Lux for MSL GOLD
too lazy to finsih
Stupid rank Luxury should be above Hwasin and Flash ... The top 3 will be decided by tomorow's match Bisu vs Jaedong .
On March 01 2009 03:09 DreaM)XeRO wrote: 1. Bisu : Set the ELO peak twice, and has been absolutly vital to SKT in the WL. He allkilled OGN, went 2-1 vs CJ and won a triple kill vs OZ. He is 20-5 (80%) in the month of Febuary and 37 wins - 11 losses (77.08%) in 2009. He is in bonjwa god mode right now, 3-0'ing his OSL group, and is a heavy favorite to reach the finals in the OSL.
2. Jangbi : Jangbi is the Bisu of KHAN. His playstyle is just so similar; based around harrassment while macroing up a huge army. Right now, with Stork sucking shit through his eyes, Jangbi is the only reliable player for KHAN. (much like Bisu for SKT) He is 15 wins - 6 losses (71.43%) in Febuary, and is extremly close to breaking the 2300 ELO barrier.
3. Jaedong : He's just a scary motherfucker thats why. But like the 2 players ahead of him, JD is powering his team alone. (I'm on the fence with Hiya, but ForGG and Lomo just suck) But at the end of the day, Lee Jae Dong is not somebody you want to face.
4. Flash : FUCK KTF. TRADE FLASH TO WOONGIN PLZKTHANKS~
5. Hwasin : The red snipaaahh is backk and with a vengance~ 14 wins - 8 losses (63.64%) in '09, against big names such as Jaedong Flash BeST Upmagic. I was frankly shocked by his ballsy play in the MSL and OSL group and ro16 stages. The red sniper is back, and back with a fury~
6. Luxury : Lux lux lux. It's finally good to see a zerg tear shit up in the SL's. With a foot into both major starleagues, Lux is on fire. He is only this low because i dont think he's going to go far in either. In the OSL, Bisu, Jaedong, BeST, Hwasin make for a scary company, while in the MSL, he might be faced with a ZvZ finals. (wait...his best matchup...) scratch that. Lux for MSL GOLD
too lazy to finsih
Stupid rank Luxury should be above Hwasin and Flash ... The top 3 will be decided by tomorow's match Bisu vs Jaedong .
reasons for Bisu being #1: -dominating every player on the current PR except of Lux who 5pooled him -winning the GSL title in convincing manner -breaking the all-time-ELO-record -he plays the best SC ever
reasons for Bisu not being #1: ...
even if he gets fucked 3-0 tomorrow, which is not probable, his games are so freaking convincing, that he has to be #1 (it's just a show fight, doesn't count very much) He just took SC to another level... if he manages to beat JD tomorrow, #2 shouldn't be awarded to anyone to underline Bisu's power. If not JD should be 2.
On March 01 2009 04:52 Polar_Bear wrote: reasons for Bisu being #1: -dominating every player on the current PR except of Lux who 5pooled him -winning the GSL title in convincing manner -breaking the all-time-ELO-record -he plays the best SC ever
reasons for Bisu not being #1: ...
even if he gets fucked 3-0 tomorrow, which is not probable, his games are so freaking convincing, that he has to be #1 (it's just a show fight, doesn't count very much) He just took SC to another level... if he manages to beat JD tomorrow, #2 shouldn't be awarded to anyone to underline Bisu's power. If not JD should be 2.
If Jaedong beats him then Bisu is not playing on an other level .... Both players have been owning in WL and OSL so i don't know if he is playing on an other level if he doesn't prove it versus Jaedong ....
On March 01 2009 04:52 Polar_Bear wrote: reasons for Bisu being #1: -dominating every player on the current PR except of Lux who 5pooled him -winning the GSL title in convincing manner -breaking the all-time-ELO-record -he plays the best SC ever
reasons for Bisu not being #1: ...
even if he gets fucked 3-0 tomorrow, which is not probable, his games are so freaking convincing, that he has to be #1 (it's just a show fight, doesn't count very much) He just took SC to another level... if he manages to beat JD tomorrow, #2 shouldn't be awarded to anyone to underline Bisu's power. If not JD should be 2.
If Jaedong beats him then Bisu is not playing on an other level .... Both players have been owning in WL and OSL so i don't know if he is playing on an other level if he doesn't prove it versus Jaedong ....
Once again I repeat that Jaedong has no titles in February whereas Bisu does. On top of that Bisu's record since Jan 1st is better than Jaedongs. That, with the 2 new ELO peaks, should be enough to outweigh the results of a showmatch.
If Flash is higher than 6 it'll be a crime. I don't have anything against him, but there's really no longer any argument that he's the best player right now.
On March 01 2009 09:06 Zozma wrote: If Flash is higher than 6 it'll be a crime. I don't have anything against him, but there's really no longer any argument that he's the best player right now.
The argument isn't as much whether or not he is the best player or not, but whether or not he can showcase his skill, which he no longer can thanks to KTF.
On March 01 2009 09:06 Zozma wrote: If Flash is higher than 6 it'll be a crime. I don't have anything against him, but there's really no longer any argument that he's the best player right now.
The argument isn't as much whether or not he is the best player or not, but whether or not he can showcase his skill, which he no longer can thanks to KTF.
Saying that he lost because he's carrying his team is just disrespectful to those who win against him.
On March 01 2009 04:52 Polar_Bear wrote: reasons for Bisu being #1: -dominating every player on the current PR except of Lux who 5pooled him -winning the GSL title in convincing manner -breaking the all-time-ELO-record -he plays the best SC ever
reasons for Bisu not being #1: ...
even if he gets fucked 3-0 tomorrow, which is not probable, his games are so freaking convincing, that he has to be #1 (it's just a show fight, doesn't count very much) He just took SC to another level... if he manages to beat JD tomorrow, #2 shouldn't be awarded to anyone to underline Bisu's power. If not JD should be 2.
If Jaedong beats him then Bisu is not playing on an other level .... Both players have been owning in WL and OSL so i don't know if he is playing on an other level if he doesn't prove it versus Jaedong ....
Once again I repeat that Jaedong has no titles in February whereas Bisu does. On top of that Bisu's record since Jan 1st is better than Jaedongs. That, with the 2 new ELO peaks, should be enough to outweigh the results of a showmatch.
I think that depends how important of a match it is in Korea.
On March 01 2009 09:06 Zozma wrote: If Flash is higher than 6 it'll be a crime. I don't have anything against him, but there's really no longer any argument that he's the best player right now.
The argument isn't as much whether or not he is the best player or not, but whether or not he can showcase his skill, which he no longer can thanks to KTF.
Then should we have put Bisu on the power rank when he sucked due to his hand? It doesn't matter with ifs or whys, all that matters is the skill they show when the PR comes out, and Flash doesn't looks nearly as good as two weeks ago.
On February 28 2009 23:53 DamageControL wrote: 7. Stork- Nice. Your in both leagues. Good job. But you went through hell to do it. Congratulations on an 8-8 February. You look good in your wins but your losses look stupid. I mean were you actually surprised KWANRO rushed you? All in all though you've looked ok.
Nal_ra's commentary on the first game between Stork and Kwanro. Translation by LosingID8
stork thought that kwanro would not go all-in hydra rush because kwanro lost a drone. if he hadn't killed that drone he would have been more prepared. the difference in 1 drone is 10 and 12 hydras at that timing. nal_ra said that he practiced that situation on bnet and said that if it is 10 hydras vs 3 cannons 1 goon and a couple zealots you can block it 100% if you pull your probes properly, but stork made a mistake because his corsair didn't give him vision of minerals so he couldn't mineral-click with probes, leading to his loss.
Not really arguing, but just pointing out that unfortunately for us non-Korean speakers, what we see is not always the truth. Stork still failed epically against Kwanro, but in a different way.
On February 28 2009 23:53 DamageControL wrote: 7. Stork- Nice. Your in both leagues. Good job. But you went through hell to do it. Congratulations on an 8-8 February. You look good in your wins but your losses look stupid. I mean were you actually surprised KWANRO rushed you? All in all though you've looked ok.
Nal_ra's commentary on the first game between Stork and Kwanro. Translation by LosingID8
stork thought that kwanro would not go all-in hydra rush because kwanro lost a drone. if he hadn't killed that drone he would have been more prepared. the difference in 1 drone is 10 and 12 hydras at that timing. nal_ra said that he practiced that situation on bnet and said that if it is 10 hydras vs 3 cannons 1 goon and a couple zealots you can block it 100% if you pull your probes properly, but stork made a mistake because his corsair didn't give him vision of minerals so he couldn't mineral-click with probes, leading to his loss.
Not really arguing, but just pointing out that unfortunately for us non-Korean speakers, what we see is not always the truth. Stork still failed epically against Kwanro, but in a different way.
Whoa i didn't see this... That makes far more sense.
On March 01 2009 09:06 Zozma wrote: If Flash is higher than 6 it'll be a crime. I don't have anything against him, but there's really no longer any argument that he's the best player right now.
The argument isn't as much whether or not he is the best player or not, but whether or not he can showcase his skill, which he no longer can thanks to KTF.
Saying that he lost because he's carrying his team is just disrespectful to those who win against him.
I am not saying it's only because of that. Best played amazing, Leta played great too. It was just part of the problem.
On March 01 2009 04:52 Polar_Bear wrote: reasons for Bisu being #1: -dominating every player on the current PR except of Lux who 5pooled him -winning the GSL title in convincing manner -breaking the all-time-ELO-record -he plays the best SC ever
reasons for Bisu not being #1: ...
even if he gets fucked 3-0 tomorrow, which is not probable, his games are so freaking convincing, that he has to be #1 (it's just a show fight, doesn't count very much) He just took SC to another level... if he manages to beat JD tomorrow, #2 shouldn't be awarded to anyone to underline Bisu's power. If not JD should be 2.
If Jaedong beats him then Bisu is not playing on an other level .... Both players have been owning in WL and OSL so i don't know if he is playing on an other level if he doesn't prove it versus Jaedong ....
Once again I repeat that Jaedong has no titles in February whereas Bisu does. On top of that Bisu's record since Jan 1st is better than Jaedongs. That, with the 2 new ELO peaks, should be enough to outweigh the results of a showmatch.
I think that depends how important of a match it is in Korea.
On March 01 2009 09:06 Zozma wrote: If Flash is higher than 6 it'll be a crime. I don't have anything against him, but there's really no longer any argument that he's the best player right now.
The argument isn't as much whether or not he is the best player or not, but whether or not he can showcase his skill, which he no longer can thanks to KTF.
Then should we have put Bisu on the power rank when he sucked due to his hand? It doesn't matter with ifs or whys, all that matters is the skill they show when the PR comes out, and Flash doesn't looks nearly as good as two weeks ago.
Um, no? That is not similar. It's because he's in neither leagues, so it's hard to see his skill in WL and SLs when he isn't in SLs. That's all I'm saying. I agree that he doesn't look as good, and even though it's understandable WHY, I do acknowledge it's a fact. I am not making an argument for Flash to be high at all, or that he is the best.
If it's close, I think Bisu will still have to be #1 - there are one or two players Jaedong will have a hard time with in a series, and Jaedong is the only opponent I can think of that would scare Bisu. If Jaedong wins 3-0 in clearly one-sided games, expect a different #1, but otherwise... I don't know how anyone could justify putting Bisu anywhere else.
Regardless, Jaedong won't be #1. If Bisu loses in a convincing fashion, Jangbi deserves the spot more than Jaedong does given the level of played displayed by both over the month.
On March 01 2009 16:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: I'm eager to see the results of Bisu vs Jaedong
If it's close, I think Bisu will still have to be #1 - there are one or two players Jaedong will have a hard time with in a series, and Jaedong is the only opponent I can think of that would scare Bisu. If Jaedong wins 3-0 in clearly one-sided games, expect a different #1, but otherwise... I don't know how anyone could justify putting Bisu anywhere else.
Regardless, Jaedong won't be #1. If Bisu loses in a convincing fashion, Jangbi deserves the spot more than Jaedong does given the level of played displayed by both over the month.
When is the new PR going to pop up,and will you be doing it?
OMG,what he fuck was that. 3 great games and Bisu fucked the last two up completely. God,I am sad. I wouldn't mind JD winning,if he would have put up a rape like he did in game 2,but God,that was disappointing. But still,Bisu is clearly no1 this month after this. There is a reason that he played in this showmatch and not Jangbi is because he beat the shit out of him at the beginning of the month. Also,I think JD deserves to be above Jangbi. He played absolutely phenomenal today and overall in the month.
That was a really great series probably the best ZvP ever seen, it was really close but Stork just completely failed the last game, Bisu won in PL though but that wasent really a good game.
Hard to say but i think Jaedong showed he was the better player right there, or more like Bisu showed that he wasent really able to take out JD
There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
Jangbi should definitely be above Flash. I personally would even put Luxury above Flash. I mean seriously,he is in both leagues and winning against impressive players,and Flash's schedule isn't a lot worse than JD's,Bisu's,Jangbi's in the WL. In fact,Lux at least performed one all-kill and in the match against Wemade Flash didn't even have to play,while SKT only managed to win one match when Bisu lost,nobody performed an all-kill besides him,and stuff like that. Same with Khan. JD had Hiya in the begging but all of Hwaseung's players besides JD suck now.
I think that, despite being knocked out of both leagues, Flash is the better player than Jangbi, and works for his team like a horse. He's 18-7 in February, with a cool 14-2 in Winner's league against tough opponents. Jangbi is great too and has more success in leagues, but from a pure skill point of view, Flash is superior.
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
On March 01 2009 20:55 Scorch wrote: I think that, despite being knocked out of both leagues, Flash is the better player than Jangbi, and works for his team like a horse. He's 18-7 in February, with a cool 14-2 in Winner's league against tough opponents. Jangbi is great too and has more success in leagues, but from a pure skill point of view, Flash is superior.
That doesn't make him a hotter player right now,that his skills are supposedly better. You are ranked based on how well and effictively can you play,not how skilled you are supposed to be.
On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else?
Pokju raped Europe... anyway have a good time making the PR Steve
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
Yeah I think that too. Bisu won a whole tournament this month and not just a showmatch,where he wasn't clearly outplayed.
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly.
by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple
On March 01 2009 20:55 Scorch wrote: I think that, despite being knocked out of both leagues, Flash is the better player than Jangbi, and works for his team like a horse. He's 18-7 in February, with a cool 14-2 in Winner's league against tough opponents. Jangbi is great too and has more success in leagues, but from a pure skill point of view, Flash is superior.
That doesn't make him a hotter player right now,that his skills are supposedly better. You are ranked based on how well and effictively can you play,not how skilled you are supposed to be.
That's a matter of definition. If I go with Manifesto's Darth Vader lineup of doom, I find Flash to be the scarier player than Jangbi. Meaning that I'd rather play against Jangbi if my life depended on it. It's debatable of course.
Players are ranked by how well they DO play over a month, not how well they COULD play. Jangbi has played much better than Flash this month.
If you asked me who the most skilled player on the scene right now is, I'd tell you its Flash without a moment's hesitation. But that needs to be displayed in the games he plays.
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly.
by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple
That is of course not what I meant. In my opinion their performances this month have been comparably good. Flash and JD where dominating WL, Bisu not so much, but hell, he won a tournament and played a really good OSL.
So Flash is out of both leagues, so he does not matter anymore.
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else?
Just in case you were going to *waste like 3 lines out of 5, of the Bisu #1 spot text, on why he is #1 and Jaedong isn't, because of that Special event (when I remember most people in past PRs agreeing on stuff in the style of 'who cares Flash won GSI its meaningless'), no need imo :-) Not when so much can be writen on Bisu's games this month, his WL results etc. It should be very so clear why he's #1, and only Bisu-haters would start flaming with the special event justifications. If anything it only made Bisu being #1 that much clearer.
On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else?
I am a big JD and zerg fan and I absolutely approve of this. Both JD and Bisu showed today that if you slip up for one single second you are going to die in a game against them. However the rest of the month has showed Bisu doing less mistakes than Jaedong so despite the fact that JD won the series today, he is by no means a scarier player than bisu, especially since I feel that it is easier to "terran" snipe JD than it is to "anything" snipe Bisu (last part is entirely subjective though).
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly.
by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple
That is of course not what I meant. In my opinion their performances this month have been comparably good. Flash and JD where dominating WL, Bisu not so much, but hell, he won a tournament and played a really good OSL.
So Flash is out of both leagues, so he does not matter anymore.
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
How can you claim that Bisu is not dominating the WL? Please check the stats before writing.
I just checked them and Bisu has 15 wins against 4 losses last month and Jaedong has 14 wins against 4 losses.
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
It would have if it had been a one-sided rape by Jaedong. You can't easily say that #1 is the better player when he's just been owned by #2. Since that didn't happen and Bisu was ahead in achievements the rest of the month, he gets #1 of course.
On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds.
If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly.
by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple
That is of course not what I meant. In my opinion their performances this month have been comparably good. Flash and JD where dominating WL, Bisu not so much, but hell, he won a tournament and played a really good OSL.
So Flash is out of both leagues, so he does not matter anymore.
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
How can you claim that Bisu is not dominating the WL? Please check the stats before writing.
I just checked them and Bisu has 15 wins against 4 losses last month and Jaedong has 14 wins against 4 losses.
Yeah you're right... I guess I wasn't aware enough of the all-kill+3kill in the end, making his stats so much better then they were before.
So basically we have a tournament win vs a showmatch win, which I guess makes Bisu being #1 much more understandable (to myself). I still would do it differently though, if two titans clash and one comes out ahead he should be #1. But as Fakesteve said, if this is not the way the rankings are done, then thats ok.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a blind JD fanboy, I personally believe that Bisu right now all around is slightly the better player. I just believe that the best of 5 should account for way more. I know I will be called out "showmatch" 100times. Well, this showmatch was the talk of the town for two weeks and the forum-thread has gotten 81pages during the series, so I just disagree.
On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else?
Just in case you were going to *waste like 3 lines out of 5, of the Bisu #1 spot text, on why he is #1 and Jaedong isn't, because of that Special event (when I remember past PRs simply saying things like "who cares Flash won GSI its meaningless"), no need imo :-) Not when so much can be writen on Bisu's games this month, his WL results etc. It should be very so clear why he's #1, and only Bisu-haters would start flaming with the special event justifications. If anything it only made Bisu being #1 that much clearer.
I disagree, I agree with bisu being #1 but I actually think that this special event proved that Bisu isn`t clearly #1.
I hope you give Stork a break and put him in the power rank again I know he's sucked in proleague but he's still in both leagues and went 3-1 vZ the other night only losing on Tears of the Moon.
@Jaeden: we all know... Bisu isn't clearly #1 and Jaedong's poo smells like flowers... anything else!? sorry for being a JD-hater :D just imagine JD playing forgg...
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
you're reading way too much into that game
how can you watch the four games before that one and come to that conclusion? Bisu doesn't have nerve problems, he's got three gold medals already. there is absolutely no way Bisu "choked" or "lost because of nerves" or "psychological warfare". He fucked up, and Jaedong killed him. It was a terrible game.
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
you're reading way too much into that game
how can you watch the four games before that one and come to that conclusion? Bisu doesn't have nerve problems, he's got three gold medals already. there is absolutely no way Bisu "choked" or "lost because of nerves" or "psychological warfare". He fucked up, and Jaedong killed him. It was a terrible game.
Well i can't explain Bisu doing such a mistake otherwise , i'm not telling he choked completely or something like that , but fucking up to block his ramp is pretty big mistake for me to think something else happent at that moment . I just thought that Jaedong had the psychological edge over Bisu in the last game .
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
I kind of disagree. I know Bisu was somewhat joking in his "grading" of Jaedong, but Jaedong's macro does suffer in comparison to his other areas. And with preparation(1 game per week format), it's quite possible for Stork to literally practice every single contingency, and stop any early game aggression. Once in the late game, Stork would have enough map control and minimize the weakest part of his PvZ, his lack of game sense.
That said, Stork has to take the series 2-0 because there's no chance for him to win the third game. So when I say Stork has a chance, it's still a very slight one.
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
I kind of disagree. I know Bisu was somewhat joking in his "grading" of Jaedong, but Jaedong's macro does suffer in comparison to his other areas. And with preparation(1 game per week format), it's quite possible for Stork to literally practice every single contingency, and stop any early game aggression. Once in the late game, Stork would have enough map control and minimize the weakest part of his PvZ, his lack of game sense.
That said, Stork has to take the series 2-0 because there's no chance for him to win the third game. So when I say Stork has a chance, it's still a very slight one.
Uhh, you're wrong on basically everything. You should know better than to give meaningless numbers assigned by Bisu any credit.
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
On March 01 2009 21:50 Polar_Bear wrote: @Jaeden: we all know... Bisu isn't clearly #1 and Jaedong's poo smells like flowers... anything else!? sorry for being a JD-hater :D just imagine JD playing forgg...
well first of all JD would win against forgg atm, at least that's what I think...anything could happen. (forGG played VERY WELL in that SL, and he had a tough path) Secondly, I hate u. On a serious note, that poll with Bisu's fanboys being the most annoying... I completely agree with it. However, as I posted in that thread, I was preparing a DancingJaedong pic, but after that game, I was so disappointed that I've let it go. I saw the Bisu fanboys complaining as always, but for the first time(maybe?) I wasn`t mad at them because I knew their feeling. That 5th game was pathetic. Even I was very disappointed because I was expecting some stylish queens( blablabla ). I agree with Bisu being #1, so what's the problem here ? Are u suggesting that JD doesn`t deserve #2/ Jd is a noob, and Bisu is a clear favorite against him, or what ?
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
uhm, yeah, I get it. That game was very frustrating, but please stop this "what WOULD be if..." thing. This is the reason why everyone hates Bisu's fanboys
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
I kind of disagree. I know Bisu was somewhat joking in his "grading" of Jaedong, but Jaedong's macro does suffer in comparison to his other areas. And with preparation(1 game per week format), it's quite possible for Stork to literally practice every single contingency, and stop any early game aggression. Once in the late game, Stork would have enough map control and minimize the weakest part of his PvZ, his lack of game sense.
That said, Stork has to take the series 2-0 because there's no chance for him to win the third game. So when I say Stork has a chance, it's still a very slight one.
So basically what you're saying is that Jaedong has about a 15 on control and a mere 8 on macro...? Those numbers are arbitrary, Jaedong's macro is above and beyond S-Class and really, that's all he needs. His specialty is multi-tasking and micro but it's not as if his macro fails on huge levels. He's not a sauron-zerg but he doesn't need that.
Stork lacks fundamental early game PvZ sometimes but his defense has been stellar. Unlike Kwanro though... Jaedong's mid-late game ZvP is phenomenal.
I always thought that Power Rank was judged on performance and not on head to head matchups. Jaedong will probably always beat Bisu in BoX's simply because he's better at it than Bisu... I still consider Bisu the better player currently given his performance, as much as it pains me to admit that.
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
Yeah, imagine if Andromeda was a balanced map. We all know it's much harder to press hold position when the map you're playing on favors your opponent.
I don't understand why people feel the need to reduce a series like that to map balance.
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
Yeah, imagine if Andromeda was a balanced map. We all know it's much harder to press hold position when the map you're playing on favors your opponent.
I don't understand why people feel the need to reduce a series like that to map balance.
haha no but really the maps aren`t that big of a deal in this case. Bisu has a great record on Andromeda, while JD doesn`t (at least in those stats that GomTV provided). Also medusa seems impossible, but it's just my feeling. Neo Harmony probably is a little too imba. Also JD seems to play well on Colosseum Anyway, what I`m trying to say is that those maps are playable. It`s not like there was TotM on the map pool
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
Yes because maps really matter to S-class gamers at all. Perhaps you've missed Flash and his 7-1 against protoss on Medusa?
Map imbalance applies to less than amazing players, the amazing ones find their ways around just about anything.
I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
uhm, yeah, I get it. That game was very frustrating, but please stop this "what WOULD be if..." thing. This is the reason why everyone hates Bisu's fanboys
Oh I get that bisu made the mistake on his own and its his own fault. I'm saying that the mistake was in a series which is different from individual play so you can't say they are even based on 3-3. Actually i'd say it tilts in JD favor... because series play is ultimately more important edit: the mistake of Bisu's is his own mistake it just leaves doubt on the series. I would have much preferred he win or lose normally so we could have a clearer outcome because while I love bisu I also really really respect Jaedong
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
Yes because maps really matter to S-class gamers at all. Perhaps you've missed Flash and his 7-1 against protoss on Medusa?
Map imbalance applies to less than amazing players, the amazing ones find their ways around just about anything.
this guy hits the spot. i mean remember katrina and jaedong on it? whether it be against kal or some other toss (the game against stork in the osl was just sick, but stork shoulda won), to these high caliber players, it doesnt matter. they will find a way to dominate. savior didnt care that 99% of the maps favored terran in his osl run, he just proceeded to win and win and win...
that last game, how did bisu forget to hold his zealots TWICE? if it was just once... u might be able to let that go but comon... such a rookie mistake and committing it twice? i know he is a great player but i just cannot give him the advantage over jaedong in a BoX. i like the last PL ranking, if your life was on the line vs darth vader, do u pick jaedong or bisu? for me, rape face jaedong takes it... not by much but barely..
On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote: My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
I kind of disagree. I know Bisu was somewhat joking in his "grading" of Jaedong, but Jaedong's macro does suffer in comparison to his other areas. And with preparation(1 game per week format), it's quite possible for Stork to literally practice every single contingency, and stop any early game aggression. Once in the late game, Stork would have enough map control and minimize the weakest part of his PvZ, his lack of game sense.
That said, Stork has to take the series 2-0 because there's no chance for him to win the third game. So when I say Stork has a chance, it's still a very slight one.
Uhh, you're wrong on basically everything. You should know better than to give meaningless numbers assigned by Bisu any credit.
So Jaedong's macro is just as good as his micro!? Or that he's just as skilled at defending as he is at orchestrating attacks? Or are you saying Stork actually has a better chance in early game than in the late game?
Hahaha, people here make me laugh. Bisu wins several games against Jaedong, on Z>P maps, to give Bisu credit. Apparently some people need to learn read, or at least some reading comprehension. I didn't blame any of Bisu's loses on map imbalance. Bisu only lost on one of the Imba maps, and it was due to a failure mistake. This means he won on the other imba maps that were played. Bisu lost the series to Jaedong: Thats a plus for Jaedong. Bisu beat Jaedong twice on Z>P Maps: Thats a plus for Bisu.
Maps to matter to S-Class progamers. When Flash last played Bisu on Medusa, and Bisu showed the perfect counter to Flash's Medusa build, people cried imba about the map. When Jaedong was knocked out of the last MSL, people called Imba on Byzantium. Maps effect players especially at the high levels, so don't give me that crap.
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
nah ur right JD has only 3 golds, the wcg doesn`t really count. Also he has 1 silver, one is from ODT
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
Yes because maps really matter to S-class gamers at all. Perhaps you've missed Flash and his 7-1 against protoss on Medusa?
Map imbalance applies to less than amazing players, the amazing ones find their ways around just about anything.
this guy hits the spot. i mean remember katrina and jaedong on it? whether it be against kal or some other toss (the game against stork in the osl was just sick, but stork shoulda won), to these high caliber players, it doesnt matter. they will find a way to dominate. savior didnt care that 99% of the maps favored terran in his osl run, he just proceeded to win and win and win...
that last game, how did bisu forget to hold his zealots TWICE? if it was just once... u might be able to let that go but comon... such a rookie mistake and committing it twice? i know he is a great player but i just cannot give him the advantage over jaedong in a BoX. i like the last PL ranking, if your life was on the line vs darth vader, do u pick jaedong or bisu? for me, rape face jaedong takes it... not by much but barely..
the game was already over.
neither ramp block had anything to do with lack of hold position. jaedong sniped the probe (andro requires more than 2 zealots to block the ramp) and walked in.
head to head is not the only thing that matters in determining who is #1 between jaedong and bisu. consider them both against flash.
Like it matters, we already know the top three anyways. Although FS's logic on the ranking given a 3-0 rape by Jaedong (which didn't happen) is intriguing.
Bisus mistke did not show he was nervous or choked
It just showed that he is Confident
VERY confident ( rightfully so ! )
and this time overconfident which turned into a sloppy mistake...
So what ?
Seeing the last game of this 'special series' as a reason to put JD over Bisu is retarted and everyone who thinks so, is either a Jeadong fan, doesnt follow & understand the current pro gaming scene or is just a bit stupid..
Im interested about Flash.. Because even though he definitely HAS WHAT IT TAKES he somehow recently ...
but well just shows you: The pro gaming level is so freaking hard nowadays..
I hate Flash and everything he has to deal with sometimes. His games yesterday showed that he is just as good as he ever has been, and I don't think I would bet on a single player beating him in a Bo5. (though a couple could be close). And yet, he's out of both leagues.
Bisu's first place could be questioned only based on the GOM special matches, but he's 3-3 against JD recently, and showed much better performenece overall. I'm a Jaedong fan, and i think he's better than Bisu, however that doesnt mean i would place him 1st.
On March 03 2009 00:14 Geo.Rion wrote: Bisu's first place could be questioned only based on the GOM special matches, but he's 3-3 against JD recently, and showed much better performenece overall. I'm a Jaedong fan, and i think he's better than Bisu, however that doesnt mean i would place him 1st.
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
Well i don't know if Bisu is the best Bo 5 player . Both with JD had blunders in the past , Bisu losing to Stork 0 - 3 in OSL semis Jaedong losing also 0 - 3 to ForGG so i don't ackowledge him as a better Bo 5 player then Jaedong especially after that ending .
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
Please enlighten me about which Bo5:s have jaedong lost apart from the rock 1-3 and the forgg 0-3 debacle. About consistency, if I remember correctly jaedong was known as ridiculously consistent in his way of dropping the first game and then winning 3 in a row from the rock loss until he lost to forgg 0-3 and beat flash and much 3-0 last summer. Winning 3-1 is consistent and I doubt bisu has won all his bo5:s 3-0.
@Jaeden: I don't hate you, I just dislike the way you sometimes try to justify everything JD does. When it's 99,5% obvious that JD isn't #1 atm, you argue for him being #1 anyway, and if it's 100% obvious that he isn't #1 you start arguing that he is not #1, but still the gap is close But let's keep it peacy from now on... @Zinbiel: You are aware of the fact that losing to Stork is s.th. different than losing to the Rock, aren't you?
general: I think JD is at 2 golds and 1 silver in starleagues. WCG Korea isn't a SL and the first GSL wasn't even a Kespa tournament. A SC tournament without the big team is like swimming olympics without Michael Phelps...
On March 03 2009 05:33 Polar_Bear wrote: @Jaeden: I don't hate you, I just dislike the way you sometimes try to justify everything JD does. When it's 99,5% obvious that JD isn't #1 atm, you argue for him being #1 anyway, and if it's 100% obvious that he isn't #1 you start arguing that he is not #1, but still the gap is close But let's keep it peacy from now on... @Zinbiel: You are aware of the fact that losing to Stork is s.th. different than losing to the Rock, aren't you?
general: I think JD is at 2 golds and 1 silver in starleagues. WCG Korea isn't a SL and the first GSL wasn't even a Kespa tournament. A SC tournament without the big team is like swimming olympics without Michael Phelps...
haha, I still believe that JD should've been put at #1 spot in that PR (several months ago). about this PR, no, Bisu is #1, and I`m not arguing at all with that. I was just trying to say that Bisu isn`t the best by far blablabla...in therms of the PR, yeah, he is clearly #1 this month...I was just saying it wrong maybe, I guess. And about the hate, nah, I dont hate anyone, it was just a joke edit: look at what Geo said two or three posts above
On March 01 2009 23:33 zhaoli86 wrote: Bisu and Jaedong are tied 3-3 in the last 6 matches they had. So for now I say they are about even.
No because that proleague and series play are two entirely different beasts. There aren't many players in the world better than Bisu at playing a series as opposed to individual games but JD is one of them. JD was better that series, I guess, I need to watch the games more. I understand one of them was just a giant fuck up. So that means that it could be that Bisu one two and JD won two and Bisu lost one, while we have no idea how that one WOULD have turned out.
True. But let me put some Bisu-Biased spin on that.
Those are the maps that Jaedong and Bisu played each other on in the past few days. Notice, that half the maps seem balanced, and the other half are Z>P maps. Even in the face face of the maps favoring Jaedong so much, Bisu won 3 of them, and two of those wins were on the imbalanced maps. Jaedong did win the series, I won't take that away from him. Bisu fucked the last game up. But I think it is a huge tribute to Bisu to being able to go 3-3 vs Jaedong when the maps were against them like they were.
Yes because maps really matter to S-class gamers at all. Perhaps you've missed Flash and his 7-1 against protoss on Medusa?
Map imbalance applies to less than amazing players, the amazing ones find their ways around just about anything.
this guy hits the spot. i mean remember katrina and jaedong on it? whether it be against kal or some other toss (the game against stork in the osl was just sick, but stork shoulda won), to these high caliber players, it doesnt matter. they will find a way to dominate. savior didnt care that 99% of the maps favored terran in his osl run, he just proceeded to win and win and win...
No, because its S class vs S class the maps still matter. the maps could matter less to JD or Bisu against lesser players but against each other they are still a big deal.
i think the maps were balanced enough that the advantage for each map was determined by playstyle - destination for jaedong, medusa for bisu. tbh, i still think, under standard circumstances, bisu had the advantages on andromeda and collosseum...
I think JD is at 2 golds and 1 silver in starleagues. WCG Korea isn't a SL and the first GSL wasn't even a Kespa tournament. A SC tournament without the big team is like swimming olympics without Michael Phelps...
Dude, those 2 tournaments might not have been Kespa tournaments at the time, but how is it fair to rate Bisu's gold in GSL season 2 more important than JD's gold in GSL season 1? (The opponents were just as tough, and Jaedong had to face FLASH in his worst matchup, ZvT, while Bisu had to face Jangbi, in PvP, arguably one of his best matchups.)
Just because it wasn't Kespa sanctioned at the time doesn't take away any level of difficulty or anything. That analogy fails because the players JD had to face in season 1 was just as tough as players Bisu had to face at season 2. Its not the team that is fearsome, its the players that create the team.
On the other hand, I think Bisu should be #1 PR next month and Jaedong #2 PR even though I like both (I like JD a little more) because I feel like Bisu has been on fire lately. And they faced each other right before this match, where Bisu won. So the score is really 3-3 tied for this PR. And I think Bisu's performance was better than Jaedong's performance for this month.
I think JD is at 2 golds and 1 silver in starleagues. WCG Korea isn't a SL and the first GSL wasn't even a Kespa tournament. A SC tournament without the big team is like swimming olympics without Michael Phelps...
Dude, those 2 tournaments might not have been Kespa tournaments at the time, but how is it fair to rate Bisu's gold in GSL season 2 more important than JD's gold in GSL season 1? (The opponents were just as tough, and Jaedong had to face FLASH in his worst matchup, ZvT, while Bisu had to face Jangbi, in PvP, arguably one of his best matchups.)
Just because it wasn't Kespa sanctioned at the time doesn't take away any level of difficulty or anything. That analogy fails because the players JD had to face in season 1 was just as tough as players Bisu had to face at season 2. Its not the team that is fearsome, its the players that create the team.
On the other hand, I think Bisu should be #1 PR next month and Jaedong #2 PR even though I like both (I like JD a little more) because I feel like Bisu has been on fire lately. And they faced each other right before this match, where Bisu won. So the score is really 3-3 tied for this PR. And I think Bisu's performance was better than Jaedong's performance for this month.
Well the first tournament only had 7 of the teams participating in it and this season it had 10 which did make the competition that much harder. A lot of good players didn't get a chance that first season and many a few didn't this season, but the competition is much harder. I mean hell, Shuttle and Backho made it to ro4 the year Jaedong won. A few good players most notably Luxury, Yarnc, Leta, and Light did not get to participate this season, but for the most part all of the best were participating.
So yes, the level as difficulty and number of opponents was much more difficult for Bisu. I am pretty sure having to beat Flash, Skyhigh, and Jangbi is more impressive than have to beat Lomo, Shuttle, and Flash.
As for this months rank, I don't have the time to write explanations, but if you have a question feel free to ask
1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4. Flash 5. Luxury 6. Leta 7. Stork 8. Light (look at this guys record recently its really good) 9. Hyvaa 10. Hwasin
Yeah main suprise and thing I would like Steve to take a look at is that I really think Light deserves a spot. MBC Hero has really turned its performance around with Light now leading them.
On March 03 2009 05:33 Polar_Bear wrote: I think JD is at 2 golds and 1 silver in starleagues. WCG Korea isn't a SL and the first GSL wasn't even a Kespa tournament. A SC tournament without the big team is like swimming olympics without Michael Phelps...
Dude, those 2 tournaments might not have been Kespa tournaments at the time, but how is it fair to rate Bisu's gold in GSL season 2 more important than JD's gold in GSL season 1? (The opponents were just as tough, and Jaedong had to face FLASH in his worst matchup, ZvT, while Bisu had to face Jangbi, in PvP, arguably one of his best matchups.)
Just because it wasn't Kespa sanctioned at the time doesn't take away any level of difficulty or anything. That analogy fails because the players JD had to face in season 1 was just as tough as players Bisu had to face at season 2. Its not the team that is fearsome, its the players that create the team.
On the other hand, I think Bisu should be #1 PR next month and Jaedong #2 PR even though I like both (I like JD a little more) because I feel like Bisu has been on fire lately. And they faced each other right before this match, where Bisu won. So the score is really 3-3 tied for this PR. And I think Bisu's performance was better than Jaedong's performance for this month.
Well the first tournament only had 7 of the teams participating in it and this season it had 10 which did make the competition that much harder. A lot of good players didn't get a chance that first season and many a few didn't this season, but the competition is much harder. I mean hell, Shuttle and Backho made it to ro4 the year Jaedong won. A few good players most notably Luxury, Yarnc, Leta, and Light did not get to participate this season, but for the most part all of the best were participating.
So yes, the level as difficulty and number of opponents was much more difficult for Bisu. I am pretty sure having to beat Flash, Skyhigh, and Jangbi is more impressive than have to beat Lomo, Shuttle, and Flash.
As for this months rank, I don't have the time to write explanations, but if you have a question feel free to ask
1. Bisu 2. Jaedong 3. Jangbi 4. Flash 5. Luxury 6. Leta 7. Stork 8. Light (look at this guys record recently its really good) 9. Hyvaa 10. Hwasin
Yeah main suprise and thing I would like Steve to take a look at is that I really think Light deserves a spot. MBC Hero has really turned its performance around with Light now leading them.
Only 9 teams participated this time, and 1 was ace so it might as well have been 8. (Ace was eliminated by the time seeds entered the tournament, except Mumyung who lost to Rock) Spoilers are for post size.
On March 03 2009 11:17 plan3t wrote: I hope that Sea doesn't just jump to number 1 again for all-killing ACE. You guys sure love your Sea, though.
That was a f*#%ing joke. How dense are you to not realize that.
So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
You just look at how they're playing when the PR comes out and you use the entire months result to gauge that. I'm guessing flash will either be 2 or 3 spots lower than Jaedong, I'm going with 2.
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
nah ur right JD has only 3 golds, the wcg doesn`t really count. Also he has 1 silver, one is from ODT
I felt that way too but I didn't want to come off as biased to JD fans n_n;
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
nah ur right JD has only 3 golds, the wcg doesn`t really count. Also he has 1 silver, one is from ODT
I felt that way too but I didn't want to come off as biased to JD fans n_n;
I mostly agree with this. Bisu is one step ahead in terms of consistancy to perform at his best level of play than flash and jaedong. However when all of them play their very best bisu, in my oppinion, is the worst out of them.
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
nah ur right JD has only 3 golds, the wcg doesn`t really count. Also he has 1 silver, one is from ODT
I felt that way too but I didn't want to come off as biased to JD fans n_n;
I mostly agree with this. Bisu is one step ahead in terms of consistancy to perform at his best level of play than flash and jaedong. However when all of them play their very best bisu, in my oppinion, is the worst out of them.
I think thats because Flash and Jaedong prepare harder for WL then Bisu , but thats just my thought . Bisu is still a monster in WL too . Well as of late KTF and Lecaf have mostly been sending Flash/Jaedong at the last sets probably not to overwork them ? Bisu is sent whenever the map is good for protoss and that way he is catching up with Flash and Jaedong pretty fast in WL or is it just that SKT has been failing a lot more recently and they are relying on Bisu to win them the series .
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
On March 02 2009 05:49 fanatacist wrote: I agree with Steve, and disagree with a load of other people. I think Bisu is still the absolute best player in a BoX series. Game 5 was the worst mistake he has ever made in a televised match as far as I can recall, but it wasn't due to nerves. This man has been to the finals and won them enough times for nerves to be non-factor for either of them - both had -_- faces. Maybe -_-; at the end.
There is a reason Bisu has 4 golds and 1 silver in major leagues unlike Stork who has 6 silvers and 2 golds. Jaedong has 4* golds and 2 silvers, which is definitely comparable. He is also very good at BoX series, but Bisu's 4-1 gold-silver domination simply tells me of a mastery of an art. There have not been many other BoX matches that Bisu lost since his first gold medal. Jaedong however is famous for always finishing 1-3 or 3-1, which isn't that great in terms of consistency - he either rapes or gets raped. Today was the first day he was pushed beyond that, and game 5 (BISU'S MISTAKE, I ACKNOWLEDGE) left that as a question.
I think Bisu is the best player out there right now, and by extension the best player (in terms of overall skill) to have ever played the game. Jaedong is VERY close. So is Flash. But Bisu is definitely #1 this month. Jaedong is definitely #2. If Flash wasn't eliminated from both leagues, I'm sure he would be #3. That's how it is right now - it's like what used to be the place of a bonjwa is taken up by 3 people right now, sitting on top of a serfdom of other players. And Bisu's results and record since Jan 1st tell me that he is sitting just an inch higher than the other two.
EDIT: Fixed Jaedong's medal count, forgot about GOM Classic #1.
EDIT 2: Let's all pray for JD vs. Bisu OSL finals. I would love to see that more than anything, this time without any serious slips like probe sneaking by and seeing EVERYthing while Jaedong has 12+ lings, and Bisu's ramp block rofl.
nah ur right JD has only 3 golds, the wcg doesn`t really count. Also he has 1 silver, one is from ODT
I felt that way too but I didn't want to come off as biased to JD fans n_n;
I mostly agree with this. Bisu is one step ahead in terms of consistancy to perform at his best level of play than flash and jaedong. However when all of them play their very best bisu, in my oppinion, is the worst out of them.
I really agree here, Bisu probably should get 1# for this month but i still think that hes the worst of the best
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
And JD,Bisu,Jangbi aren't overworked? Without them their teams never win(today was an exception otherwise usually when they lose,their team is fucked)
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
hey bisu can't stop by.hero, he should definitely be number one. But srsly, flash is out of both SL's, which simply count for more than PL. The people he lost to also matter, because he lost in his supposed best matchup TvT.
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
Luxury should be # 4 , the only player standing in both leagues with Stork , and he has impressed me with his series against Hwasin and Leta in some games there are some brilliant moves . I think he is one of the favourites to win the MSL , but only if he doesn't choke and prepare his absolute best against Zero and probably JangBi / Stork who will meet him in the final .I think he has what it takes to finally take out a big protoss of Stork and JangBI's caliber , but i fear for him in his upcoming series versus Zero where i think he is 50%/50% at best to win it .
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
On March 04 2009 03:26 raga4ka wrote: Luxury should be # 4 , the only player standing in both leagues with Stork , and he has impressed me with his series against Hwasin and Leta in some games there are some brilliant moves . I think he is one of the favourites to win the MSL , but only if he doesn't choke and prepare his absolute best against Zero and probably JangBi / Stork who will meet him in the final .I think he has what it takes to finally take out a big protoss of Stork and JangBI's caliber , but i fear for him in his upcoming series versus Zero where i think he is 50%/50% at best to win it .
well, his series against Leta did not impress me that much. Imo he played really really bad in the Byzantium game + 5pool is a luck based build, even though Luxury used it on the map in which had the most % to succeed, it's still the most all in build possible. He outplayed Leta in 1 game, and fooled him in the last one. I hope he wins MSL though... Or gets beaten by Nada, that would be better. He's certanly able to beat whoever remained in MSL, if the flash-sindrome doesnt shows up. (dropping off from both leauge in the same time beacause of the bad scheldue)
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
head-to-head isnt everything
It isn't nothing either.
I guess you didn't say anything when Bisu was two spots lower than Flash even tho he was 3-1 against him that month.
On March 03 2009 11:29 Lockon Stratos wrote: So where is Flash going to end up with respect to Jaedong? Because Flash beat Jaedong both times they met this month but Jaedong is still in a SL. In this situation do you determine the order by their 2 matches or by purely looking at their SL performance?
No way Flash can be above Jaedong after dropping both OSL and MSL.
Have you been watching WL? Kid is an overworked beast. Someone call the social workers.
and what ? overworked or not, he didnt perform well in SL and thus deserves to be ranked lower than LJD
He will probably end up ranked lower, but he definitely doesn't deserve to be, Jaedong could not stop Flash last month.
head-to-head isnt everything
It isn't nothing either.
I guess you didn't say anything when Bisu was two spots lower than Flash even tho he was 3-1 against him that month.
I really couldn't say anything seeing as how I registered just recently.
Anyway, as big of a Flash fan that I am, I'd have to say that JD deserves to be higher this month. Yes, Flash won 12 in a row at one point during the month, which is quite a rare feat. Unfortunately, he also lost 4 in a row near the end of the month that got him kicked out of both leagues (one could argue it's because he had to play 4 games before his loss to Best that very same day, and the fact that he got knocked out of the OSL the day before affected his play in the MSL. But he still lost.) Also, Jaedong beat Bisu in a best of 5, which in my opinion shows he deserves to be at the top of the PR. But as long as the top 5 this month are either Bisu and Jaedong at number one and then any order of Jangbi, Flash, and Luxury, then I think it will be an accurate Power Ranking.
I agree with bisu being #1. He has shown great play, consistency and titles in recent months, which cannot be said of jaedong. Given that the 6 matches they played in the last week basically showed that they are of equal skill right now, I think bisu being #1 is more deserved than Jaedong.
#3 is more of a contentious spot, with luxury, flash and jangbi all vying for the one spot. However, I remember reading some posts in the past on what the selection criteria is for the PR, and it went something along the lines of who would win a bo5 RIGHT NOW, or in other words, who is the most skilled/in form player.
If that is how it is to be selected, then I would put my money on Flash. This is my own gut feeling that flash is playing better than the other two, and is also precisely the reason why KTF sends our lux, and then flash in Winners League.
Indeed, I am not going to write the PR, and my selection criteria is most likely not going to be the same as the person who's writing the PR, but that would be what I would put as my top 3, with jangbi at #4, and lux at #5.
Bisu Flash and Jaedong are at a level above everyone else, but they are so close it's hard to pick a favorite amongst them. I don't mean this for Power Rank, but I mean this in overall ability and if I had to bet on a Bo5 winner between any two. But I'd easily pick any of them against anyone else.
Really impressed also by the way Flash picked up his vZ, Bisu is dominating vT and Jaedong is killing his vT. Oh and Flash still has the best winning percentage of all time of anyone with more than a handful of games.
Kind of agree with you Tyxiquale. I don't dispute Bisu for #1 in PR, and if I'd be hard to bet on any of the three against any of the three in a Bo5, but if I had to, I would probably take Flash over both Bisu and Jaedong right this moment (SL, PL, head to head all taken into account). I'd also probably take Flash if I had to bet who would win the most games in a 50 game super series against the other top 50 gamers out there.
Bisu totally deserves top spot though for his results and performance. That's what PR is about. You have to play well and you have to post results. But the Jaedong HAS to be over Flash because of the fact Flash is out of both leagues debate I find a little annoying. Flash lost two tough games, one against Best, and one against Leta to find himself out in the cold. Flash also beat up everyone on his streak in PL while being the #1 target to be sniped at all times by everyone--including JD twice. Power Rank is about making tough decisions based on judgment and a brain and watching every single game. That's why I cannot deal with people shouting about Flash being out so therefore he cannot be over JD or anyone else in a SL. The whole point of Power Rank is that it's not even a real ranking, there are no rules to it, and it's about judgment and opinions. Making up some artificial rule is about the least interesting thing you can do besides create a whole set of rules and formulas you can input data into and spit out a PR each month. Maybe Flash might be ranked #2. wouldn't that be shocking, and make JD fans cry with rage.
I also want to say I hate Leta now after I was really beginning to like him, especially after his infamous Luxury behind the expo play. There is nothing worse in all of Starcraft to me than an all-in mirror match cheese to end a tied series. I'll take an all-in cheese if you're up 1-0, 2-0, 2-1 and you want to gamble to go home or you're down 1-0, 2-0, 2-1 and want to gamble to get back. Or if it's tied and you want to gamble for an advantage. I'll even take a four pool against a Terran or Toss to end a series on an imba map perhaps. But to totally cop out of the DECIDING game in a series against a mirror opponent (rules out map imba) tells me they just want no part of the guy at all. It just seems borderline disrespectful even.
On March 04 2009 13:37 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: if you want an accurate reflection of who is playing the best right now, read the Power Rank. A new one comes out today.
On March 04 2009 03:26 raga4ka wrote: Luxury should be # 4 , the only player standing in both leagues with Stork , and he has impressed me with his series against Hwasin and Leta in some games there are some brilliant moves . I think he is one of the favourites to win the MSL , but only if he doesn't choke and prepare his absolute best against Zero and probably JangBi / Stork who will meet him in the final .I think he has what it takes to finally take out a big protoss of Stork and JangBI's caliber , but i fear for him in his upcoming series versus Zero where i think he is 50%/50% at best to win it .
well, his series against Leta did not impress me that much. Imo he played really really bad in the Byzantium game + 5pool is a luck based build, even though Luxury used it on the map in which had the most % to succeed, it's still the most all in build possible. He outplayed Leta in 1 game, and fooled him in the last one. I hope he wins MSL though... Or gets beaten by Nada, that would be better. He's certanly able to beat whoever remained in MSL, if the flash-sindrome doesnt shows up. (dropping off from both leauge in the same time beacause of the bad scheldue)
Well on Byzantium Luxury was behind from the start with his build choise and Leta's build was pretty good . The only bad mistake in that game was not that he went guardians , but that he should have used those guardians together with the lurkers to flank and destroy Leta's army in front of his natural . But he counter-attacked with them and he couldn't stall for dark swarm ... And he outplayed Leta in games 4 and outsmarted him in game 5 , not game 1 .
EPT
, I wouldn't change much (besides perhaps BeSt instead of Stork at 10). I'm sure Jaewook will return to his regular spot in the PR once he starts to destroy people in this OSL.
P
