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On February 17 2009 12:22 p4fn2w wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2009 12:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Well, Flash is currently doing Better in the individual category and WL. The criteria for PR is who is playing better, and Individual titles are a consequence of great play, but does not constitute it, and in turn, a higher placement in the PR. Flash is rolling most of his opponents, S-class too, while Bisu is putting up great tense games, but not the dominance that is needed to pass Flash atm. Although I agree with your last sentence, I'm not sure about your first two. How is Flash doing better in SL's than Bisu? Also, the criteria for the PR should take into account great play not just from this month, but the months before. Many people have said this for a very long time now, Fakesteve among them. Flash is only showing better play over Bisu recently, but if you extend before that you can see Bisu holding a more impressive history, including beating Flash in a BO3 and in proleague.
Yeah Bisu is 2-0 in OSL while Flash is 1-1. But Bisu is out of the MSL, so that accounts for something. His W-L ratio is very good beating S-class players and he is the GOM TV champion. Bisu should be #1 and Flash #2.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
'Like his brother, he has the ability to produce an epic streak or an epic fail. Hopefully for Park Myung Soo fans, this is just the beginning of something special.'
He's just epic fail in person. CHANSOO FTW.
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Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =).
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GuemChi for number one obviously.
Flash for number 2.
Bisu for number 3.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
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On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
Some people: Flash #1!!
Other people: Bisu #1!!
Some people: lol come on, obviously Flash #1!!
Other people: omg Bisu!
FakeSteve: Shut up, Flash wins. Morons.
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So much could happen in the next couple days. Leta and Best are still very very good players. I'm nervous about Flash's OSL match. It all depends on one game. At least he's up one game in his series against Leta.
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On February 17 2009 13:24 p4fn2w wrote:
Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =).
it is the monthly power rank
not the quarterly power rank
or the biannual power rank
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top3: Bisu, Flash, Jaedong + Show Spoiler + (order arguable, I would put Bisu on top, because his PvZ looks strong again and he managed to win the GSL, but Flash and JD have shown some great games, too)
Savior @ 4/5
Now people get that Leta isn't that great... Most rid. #1 ever, it was obvious before anyway...
Mediocre TvP, lost 4 of his last 5 TvTs, very good TvZ, but evidentially forGG is still the king of this MU; don't want to take anything away from him, but it'll take a huge step forward to make him a champion.
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On February 17 2009 21:42 Polar_Bear wrote:top3: Bisu, Flash, Jaedong + Show Spoiler + (order arguable, I would put Bisu on top, because his PvZ looks strong again and he managed to win the GSL, but Flash and JD have shown some great games, too) Savior @ 4/5 Now people get that Leta isn't that great... Most rid. #1 ever, it was obvious before anyway... Mediocre TvP, lost 4 of his last 5 TvTs, very good TvZ, but evidentially forGG is still the king of this MU; don't want to take anything away from him, but it'll take a huge step forward to make him a champion.
Don't be putting Bisu above Jaedong or Flash till JD vs BISU Bo5 that is incoming . If Flash makes his OSL and MSL Ro8 soundly he definitely should be # 1 with the dominance over the leagues he is showing . Bisu gets some points for a GOM tittle and a good series vs JangBI , but he is nowhere near Flash/JD in WL and losses some points in that aspect . Bisu would be # 1 given if he advances in his OSL group ( he has almost advanced ) beats Jaedong in GOM's "battle of who's best" and if Flash crashes in at least 1 of the leagues .
I agree with Leta . He is not ready to be # 1 for a longer period of time in the PR ( prove me wrong Leta ) .
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Mr. Hoon wrote that Jaedong is the first person who ever done a reverse-allkill in a BO7 format (excluding offline games)? Is this true?
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9070 Posts
I'm not excited about JD's all kills. I think he is doing just fine, considering his losses to flash (no shame about that, the ktf kid is way better now), questionable performance vs hwasin in MSL, his usual zvz dominance and zvp win over kal on a map that is 11-2 in this MU. Flash is the current #1 without any question.
Bisu...bisu had his typical hangover after his domination over jangbi and managed to drop some WL games but besides that he is still a dominant force, he is over the 2300 elo mark for almost two months now. But yeah the match vs Jaedong will answer many questions, but no matter what happens there will always be excuses for the loser (like map pool in bisu's case or the typical "meh JD had a day off" thing in the other)
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On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is,
What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though?
Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
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Who is that newby at first spot?
Could he leave Jaedong's seat please?
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On February 18 2009 03:48 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is, What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though? Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
Maybe cause he hasn't lost to BeSt yet?
What kind of argument is this?
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On February 18 2009 03:48 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2009 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
You guys are forgetting that the king of Power Rank is playing well. Results factor in when the difference is indescribable
Flash is currently playing better than anyone on the planet. It's a goddamned sight to behold, and you guys should be able to put your fandom aside and recognize the best player of the day for what he is, What happens when BeSt knocks him out this week though? Honestly, people seem overly critical of Bisu dropping a few games then they do if Flash or Jaedong do.
People start criticizing him thats what  , but BEST has to knock him out first 
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On February 17 2009 19:31 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2009 13:24 p4fn2w wrote:
Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =). it is the monthly power rank not the quarterly power rank or the biannual power rank
You may be right, because after closer inspection I only see OneOther and Avidkeystamper say otherwise.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81982¤tpage=18
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81982¤tpage=33
The fact that no one else tried to argue with them led me to believe that they are right and everyone else agreed, that PR is NOT a monthly thing but an accumulation of prior months.
But if PR is about just this month alone, then you have Bisu winning GOM and Flash having an insane record. If PR is about the best player this very instant than I agree Flash is #1.
But I think it really depends on how far back you factor in the PR. The farther back it goes, the stronger Bisu's arguments are than Flash's.
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On February 18 2009 08:26 p4fn2w wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2009 19:31 IdrA wrote:On February 17 2009 13:24 p4fn2w wrote:
Yeah, I know Bisu is out of the MSL. If you look at the current SL, then I agree Flash is better than Bisu in that department. BUUUT since the PR takes into account the months prior, which includes GOM (would I be stretching it if I say MSL too?), then I believe my point still stands =). it is the monthly power rank not the quarterly power rank or the biannual power rank You may be right, because after closer inspection I only see OneOther and Avidkeystamper say otherwise. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81982¤tpage=18http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=81982¤tpage=33The fact that no one else tried to argue with them led me to believe that they are right and everyone else agreed, that PR is NOT a monthly thing but an accumulation of prior months. But if PR is about just this month alone, then you have Bisu winning GOM and Flash having an insane record. If PR is about the best player this very instant than I agree Flash is #1. But I think it really depends on how far back you factor in the PR. The farther back it goes, the stronger Bisu's arguments are than Flash's.
In my opinion:
The PR is about who is the strongest player RIGHT NOW. Past results are only factored in because they help us glean insight into the relative strength and consistency of the various players, as there's no definitive way of ranking them. So the PR isn't some sort of accumulation of the past, but instead, the past helps up determine who is the strongest player in the present because we have no better way of doing it.
Going on that definition, if someone is playing phenomenal Starcraft right now, it is worth more than someone who is playing mediocre right now but had some great games however far in the past. Past games really come into play when trying to determine a player's potential level or when there's a relatively small difference so consistency starts gaining more and more importance.
In practice, of course, this makes it so that the PR would be a weighted average of past games most of the time, with recent games having much more importance (like when Bisu tanked after being eliminated from both leagues the day before the PR came out even though he was dominant before), but it also means that when one player is totally outplaying the rest of the field it has to be recognized. It's somewhat debatable, but I think that Flash is doing just that; I think he's playing Starcraft at a notch above anyone else on a ridiculous schedule against the very top of his competition and that he deserves #1 PR (hypothetical at-this-moment of course) for it.
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I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
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On February 18 2009 10:57 p4fn2w wrote:
I'm all up for that line of thinking, and I actually used a similar argument in favor of Bisu during that Bisu vs Stork debate months ago. What gets me is that half of the people shot down that argument by saying the PR should take into account the months prior, where Stork beat Bisu in a BO3 in OSL, thus favoring Stork over Bisu. And now that the tables have turned, I'm using the exact same reasoning, but everyone somehow switched their line of thinking and favor Flash over Bisu. It seems the majority never wants Bisu to win unless he is clearly a few leagues above everyone else.
He did do some bad stuff to the MSL groups (I believe he was responsible for the all T group and I know he made group F), I think discrimination is justified in this case.
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EPT
