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My list would be:
Bisu: he kicks asses
Stork: last month is enough to be 2nd
Flash: i hate you, loose some games, Free gave the direct game for you, so i cant put him above you
Free: he plays more than the other tosses so if he looses some tough games, not a problem
Jangbi: he's very good but not S class
Kal: inconsistent as hell, but he played too good to drop him lower
Best: very good PL stat, though he needs some new batteries(some new bo's for fck's sake)
Jaedong: pls get your shit together
FBH: he's very good, but unreliable and cannot make far in any SL, and his PvT STILL SUX
Calm/Effort they are doing fairly well, Effort being the only zerg hope in GOM, and since he beated Jangbi, and GOM doesnt uses Byzantium he might crush some tosses. And calm is the best PL player of STX, and they are owning so that counts a lot
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On December 07 2008 03:21 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination  i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad  not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore .... I can give Best's example here: he was over 80% PvP until he meet stork ( ~84% or somethin` like that ), but I don`t want to argue with u `coz u seem to be a nice person  oh and yeah, good post from OneOther , he sums it up really nice.
And then he lost to a random guy in offlines 2 - 0 . In PvP there are to much gambles that makes it more luck based then the other mirror MUs thats what i think ....
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United States41662 Posts
Jaedong is singlehandedly keeping Lecaf in the proleague.
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On December 07 2008 06:06 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 03:21 Jaeden wrote:On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore .... I can give Best's example here: he was over 80% PvP until he meet stork ( ~84% or somethin` like that ), but I don`t want to argue with u `coz u seem to be a nice person oh and yeah, good post from OneOther , he sums it up really nice. And then he lost to a random guy in offlines 2 - 0 . In PvP there are to much gambles that makes it more luck based then the other mirror MUs thats what i think ....
because he was knocked out of his top shape
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On December 07 2008 03:22 MisterKatosS wrote:My prediction : (some spoiler inside) + Show Spoiler +
1- Bisu : almost untouchable, while is opponent try hard (look at is come back against none other than calm)
2 - Free : ok he lost to bisu and flash (what a shame ...), but this guy has skills, look at him playing that's all I have to say...
3 - Jangbi : He was not as close as free to bisu's skill , and lost to Effort, in my opinion not champion material yet, but a very good kiddo
4 - Stork : after he got what he wanted, it seem that stork whant to sleep a little more than he used to in two years of perfect consistancy
5 - Flash : still strong, so far so good in pl and gom
6 - Kal : same as above
7 - Best : Same as above, but don't loose again to insurance terran, and what is your problem with MSL prelim ! kizoo_major then inyeon[3.33] ?!
8 - Jaedong : ouch rough month again, RoRo, Tempest,sea, fbh but I still believe in jaedong skills ... stop misplace lurk egg and overgreedy builds and you'll be fine.
9 - 10 : hmm i don't know maybe FBH ? Yarnc ?
sorry but, ur PR seems really OFF to me, no offence, I mean, stork #4 ?hmm
I agree with Darth Peter's, although, JD could be even lower, don`t get me wrong, I LOVE JAEDONG, look at my sig, but ...
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On December 07 2008 00:33 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore .... your reasoning is flawed. just because zvz is more luck based than pvp doesn't mean a player can't be dominant in it. it has a bigger luck factor than any other matchup in starcraft, yet jaedong overcomes it by playing that much better. there are no other zerg players who compare to jaedong's skill level in zvz. pvp, on the other hand, has a much, much higher competition. notice how the best players these days happen to be protoss? therefore, although pvp is less luck based than zvz, you see protoss players losing to other protoss players, because they are all so damn good. i hope you understand what i am trying to say.
Ok so if they are that good how come Best lost to some newby in a series in offlines who continued to lose to an other newby , Bisu lost to a guy's first televised game and he beat Free in MSL and then continued to lose to him in PL and Stork after beating the so called best PvPers in Bisu and Best then continued to lose to kal , pusan and by.movie who starts to kill everyone in PL . How come eny toss is winning vs enyone are all the tosses that good that they can't win over more then 2 opponents and even players who play their first matches can take a game and play superior to them ? This by.Movie guy just got to see PL and is already starting to kill in this MU .
And Jaedong is not the only dominant ZvZ player as of late Yarnc is dominating in this mu as well . I can't imagine Flash losing to a terran player thats level below him a mirror MU unless it happens .
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On December 07 2008 07:23 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 00:33 OneOther wrote:On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore .... your reasoning is flawed. just because zvz is more luck based than pvp doesn't mean a player can't be dominant in it. it has a bigger luck factor than any other matchup in starcraft, yet jaedong overcomes it by playing that much better. there are no other zerg players who compare to jaedong's skill level in zvz. pvp, on the other hand, has a much, much higher competition. notice how the best players these days happen to be protoss? therefore, although pvp is less luck based than zvz, you see protoss players losing to other protoss players, because they are all so damn good. i hope you understand what i am trying to say. Ok so if they are that good how come Best lost to some newby in a series in offlines who continued to lose to an other newby , Bisu lost to a guy's first televised game and he beat Free in MSL and then continued to lose to him in PL and Stork after beating the so called best PvPers in Bisu and Best then continued to lose to kal , pusan and by.movie who starts to kill everyone in PL . How come eny toss is winning vs enyone are all the tosses that good that they can't win over more then 2 opponents and even players who play their first matches can take a game and play superior to them ? This by.Movie guy just got to see PL and is already starting to kill in this MU . And Jaedong is not the only dominant ZvZ player as of late Yarnc is dominating in this mu as well . I can't imagine Flash losing to a terran player thats level below him a mirror MU unless it happens .
Jd lost to roro, it happens, every good player loses from time to time
EDIT: ok sorry, I have to go to sleep now, coz I have to wake up in about 4 hours c`ya
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Okay, this is a rant, you can repsond if you want to, but I just want to get this off my chest.
When Flash was playing crappily after he lost to Lux, just like Jaedong is right now, the lowest he dropped for 2 months was 3rd. WTF?! Jaedong dropped to fourth in one month, but Flash sitll gets to stay on top. I don't hate Flash, if this happened to anybody, I would have the same reaction. I guess I'm whining more about what happened, not who it happened to. I mean seriously, he was playing like 7-10th PR and he still got "Benefit of the Doubt".
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On December 07 2008 07:50 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Okay, this is a rant, you can repsond if you want to, but I just want to get this off my chest.
When Flash was playing crappily after he lost to Lux, just like Jaedong is right now, the lowest he dropped for 2 months was 3rd. WTF?! Jaedong dropped to fourth in one month, but Flash sitll gets to stay on top. I don't hate Flash, if this happened to anybody, I would have the same reaction. I guess I'm whining more about what happened, not who it happened to. I mean seriously, he was playing like 7-10th PR and he still got "Benefit of the Doubt".
I completely agree with you about this stuff,but when Flash was playing like shit,there were no players to be ranked above him,because there were only 4 good players at that time. Jaedong,who was ranked above Flash those month,ForGG,who was ranked higher one month,and Best,who also choked at that moment,so he couldn't be above Flash. Now there are several good players,who are just too good to be put below Jaedong.
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United States10774 Posts
On December 07 2008 07:23 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 00:33 OneOther wrote:On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore .... your reasoning is flawed. just because zvz is more luck based than pvp doesn't mean a player can't be dominant in it. it has a bigger luck factor than any other matchup in starcraft, yet jaedong overcomes it by playing that much better. there are no other zerg players who compare to jaedong's skill level in zvz. pvp, on the other hand, has a much, much higher competition. notice how the best players these days happen to be protoss? therefore, although pvp is less luck based than zvz, you see protoss players losing to other protoss players, because they are all so damn good. i hope you understand what i am trying to say. Ok so if they are that good how come Best lost to some newby in a series in offlines who continued to lose to an other newby , Bisu lost to a guy's first televised game and he beat Free in MSL and then continued to lose to him in PL and Stork after beating the so called best PvPers in Bisu and Best then continued to lose to kal , pusan and by.movie who starts to kill everyone in PL . How come eny toss is winning vs enyone are all the tosses that good that they can't win over more then 2 opponents and even players who play their first matches can take a game and play superior to them ? This by.Movie guy just got to see PL and is already starting to kill in this MU . And Jaedong is not the only dominant ZvZ player as of late Yarnc is dominating in this mu as well . I can't imagine Flash losing to a terran player thats level below him a mirror MU unless it happens .
Uhmm you missed my entire point. In fact, I have no idea what you are talking about. Of course a good player loses to an inferior player sometimes, but that doesn't mean that the matchup is based on luck. Everyone has off days, everyone has good days. Just because BeSt lost to some random player in the MSL prelims does not mean that PvP is based on luck. It simply means BeSt had a bad day, and the other guy hit the jackpot. Is PvZ luck based since July lost to Bul_T ? No. Is ZvT luck based since Jaedong lost to Frozean before? No. Games don't prove anything because they are merely games. Things happen. Best PvPer can certainly lose to an unknown player. Same with every other matchup.
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On December 07 2008 07:14 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 03:22 MisterKatosS wrote:My prediction : (some spoiler inside) + Show Spoiler +
1- Bisu : almost untouchable, while is opponent try hard (look at is come back against none other than calm)
2 - Free : ok he lost to bisu and flash (what a shame ...), but this guy has skills, look at him playing that's all I have to say...
3 - Jangbi : He was not as close as free to bisu's skill , and lost to Effort, in my opinion not champion material yet, but a very good kiddo
4 - Stork : after he got what he wanted, it seem that stork whant to sleep a little more than he used to in two years of perfect consistancy
5 - Flash : still strong, so far so good in pl and gom
6 - Kal : same as above
7 - Best : Same as above, but don't loose again to insurance terran, and what is your problem with MSL prelim ! kizoo_major then inyeon[3.33] ?!
8 - Jaedong : ouch rough month again, RoRo, Tempest,sea, fbh but I still believe in jaedong skills ... stop misplace lurk egg and overgreedy builds and you'll be fine.
9 - 10 : hmm i don't know maybe FBH ? Yarnc ?
sorry but, ur PR seems really OFF to me, no offence, I mean, stork #4 ?hmm I agree with Darth Peter's, although, JD could be even lower, don`t get me wrong, I LOVE JAEDONG, look at my sig, but ...
Well, 4 th spot does not seem that bad, maybe I am a bit biased, but since the OSL final he lost 4 game for 8 played (against Pusan,Kal,Movie and calm ).
And I believe the three players above him are hotter skill wise.
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On December 07 2008 12:17 MisterKatosS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 07:14 Jaeden wrote:On December 07 2008 03:22 MisterKatosS wrote:My prediction : (some spoiler inside) + Show Spoiler +
1- Bisu : almost untouchable, while is opponent try hard (look at is come back against none other than calm)
2 - Free : ok he lost to bisu and flash (what a shame ...), but this guy has skills, look at him playing that's all I have to say...
3 - Jangbi : He was not as close as free to bisu's skill , and lost to Effort, in my opinion not champion material yet, but a very good kiddo
4 - Stork : after he got what he wanted, it seem that stork whant to sleep a little more than he used to in two years of perfect consistancy
5 - Flash : still strong, so far so good in pl and gom
6 - Kal : same as above
7 - Best : Same as above, but don't loose again to insurance terran, and what is your problem with MSL prelim ! kizoo_major then inyeon[3.33] ?!
8 - Jaedong : ouch rough month again, RoRo, Tempest,sea, fbh but I still believe in jaedong skills ... stop misplace lurk egg and overgreedy builds and you'll be fine.
9 - 10 : hmm i don't know maybe FBH ? Yarnc ?
sorry but, ur PR seems really OFF to me, no offence, I mean, stork #4 ?hmm I agree with Darth Peter's, although, JD could be even lower, don`t get me wrong, I LOVE JAEDONG, look at my sig, but ... Well, 4 th spot does not seem that bad, maybe I am a bit biased, but since the OSL final he lost 4 game for 8 played (against Pusan,Kal,Movie and calm ). And I believe the three players above him are hotter skill wise.
Any spot on the power rank isn't bad top 10 of a field of 300+ (taken from the combined total members of all 12 teams.) that puts them in the top 3.33% at worst. Also they are the best in the world so they really are the top 10 of thousands if not tens of thousands.
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On December 07 2008 17:26 Sentenal wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Out of curiosity, what is the IEF?
International Esports Festival 2008
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+ Show Spoiler +I think it`s pretty much safe to say now that best deserves to be above Jaedong... last zerg hope:  HoeJJa, doesn`t sound really good
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On December 07 2008 20:05 Jaeden wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think it`s pretty much safe to say now that best deserves to be above Jaedong... last zerg hope: HoeJJa, doesn`t sound really good
+ Show Spoiler +
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+ Show Spoiler +Yeah,and he is gonna face Bisu. Zergs are fucked in the ass,and there is a good possibility,that there will be another all protoss semifinals.
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On December 07 2008 20:08 Darth Peter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Yeah,and he is gonna face Bisu. Zergs are fucked in the ass,and there is a good possibility,that there will be another all protoss semifinals.
+ Show Spoiler +99% if Bisu can take out Flash.
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i hate all of you who watch GOM live, excluding me from this topic for hours :p
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EPT
