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Lol,looks like 13 wasn't his lucky number,he got only 13 comments.
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That's what happens when you argue like a kindergarten brat.
So how about the next PR? Waiting for Best vs Effort in GOMTV Ro16 on Sunday?
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no...idk about Jaedong over BeST
BeST is on fire
and i think he should be up as high as if not higher than Jangbi
otherwise
great ranking
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Any TL member that wins their YGosu game for Power Rank.
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On December 06 2008 14:18 soudo wrote:
Any TL member that wins their YGosu game for Power Rank.
For top 3 
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On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination  i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad  not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s
Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times .
All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore ....
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On December 06 2008 12:04 XeRO[BluE] wrote:
no...idk about Jaedong over BeST
BeST is on fire
and i think he should be up as high as if not higher than Jangbi
otherwise
great ranking
Best is on fire losing in MSL offlines . I can't call that on fire , but he is doing well .
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On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore ....
There's a really good thread about luck in ZvZ i will find it for you.
That's it, i found it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83182
it basicly denies the importance of luck in ZvZ. However be sure to read MYM.Testie's comment on the topic, (it's on the first page, you will find it) to get a better view of the problem
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protoss is dominating this rank
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United States10774 Posts
On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore ....
your reasoning is flawed. just because zvz is more luck based than pvp doesn't mean a player can't be dominant in it. it has a bigger luck factor than any other matchup in starcraft, yet jaedong overcomes it by playing that much better. there are no other zerg players who compare to jaedong's skill level in zvz. pvp, on the other hand, has a much, much higher competition. notice how the best players these days happen to be protoss? therefore, although pvp is less luck based than zvz, you see protoss players losing to other protoss players, because they are all so damn good. i hope you understand what i am trying to say.
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9071 Posts
just 29 another posts of trash talking and we will hit 800...all time record
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United States987 Posts
So have we concluded:
1 Bisu
2 Stork
3-6 (in some order) Jangbi/Free/Flash/Jaedong
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On December 07 2008 01:50 wswordsmen wrote:
So have we concluded:
1 Bisu
2 Stork
3-6 (in some order) Jangbi/Free/Flash/Jaedong
I think Jaedong should be 7,Kal was performing better this month besides his embarassing loss vs Fake Yellow.
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My personal opinion here is that Jaedong is playing below expectations and needs to drop.
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On December 07 2008 03:05 NathanSC wrote:
My personal opinion here is that Jaedong is playing below expectations and needs to drop.
unfortunately, I agree
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On December 06 2008 20:56 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2008 01:34 Jaeden wrote:On December 02 2008 21:49 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2008 19:28 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2008 17:01 baubo wrote:On December 02 2008 13:30 Hot_Bid wrote:
the question PR is supposed to answer, if deciding between two players, is who would win a Bo5 between them right now? OSL or no OSL, given their current levels it's pretty clear.
stork beat bisu eight weeks ago in a very close 2-1 win where Bisu was up huge in the deciding game three. since then, we have seen little of stork's pvp other than losing to kal 2-3 and not doing well in PL. bisu however has beaten free 3-1 and jangbi 3-1, so the decision is pretty clear in my eyes, the December PR should have Bisu at #1 and Stork at #2. While I agree that Bisu should be #1(Stork just underperforming tremendously since his OSL win), this argument is flawed. Every player has weak and strong MUs. For example, Best and Stork would likely win a Bo5 against any terran on the planet, all the while can be utterly embarrased by mediocre zergs at any given time. So do they rate behind zergs or above terrans? Anyway, quite disappointed in Stork and Jaedong's recent slumps. Neither has been playing like they're invincible recently. They are my favorite players of their respective races, and it sucks to keep seeing them get owned by lesser players. I don't think that Stork is underperforming tremendously he just lost 3 PvP's in PL to KaL Pusan and Movie who seems to be very good in PvP and Bisu lost to tazza so in PvP the mirror MU anything can happen not like TvT or ZvZ where clearly the more skilled players wins aka Flash or Jaedong ... I didn't know that protoss is all about PvP ... I wan't to see Bisu in PL vs a decent terran to see how he is performing . Stork did beat Nal_keke in Gom who at least managed to outmacro Best on Destination i'm thinking that no one is takeing GOM seriously and it doesn't change much in the PR until the finals come .... ZvZ is more luckbased than PvP, at least it seems to me. Jaedong somehow mastered that mu, but the others provide conradictory results, like beating Luxury one day loosing to a noob later. About Bisu beating good terrans. Everyobdy was yellin aobut how awesome FBH is, and how good his pvp became, and he's 1st or 2nd best terran on Erath etc, he got 3-0ed. I guess nobody counts the games against Hwasin, but Hwasin isn't a bad player either. Just beat Best (ok, i know it was more Best's fault) And expecting Bisu to take down great Terrans... Why do you expect him to prove more in his weakest MU? You should ask stork to beat Effort, Calm, JUly, Jaedong in a raw than (i give 4 names cuz zergs recently suck, so if you actually beat one of them, it may be only cuz he's slumping, or he lost the sense to ZVP, koghhh.. Jaedong koghhh...) EDIT: if only BIsu took that game against Tazza more serious, we wouldn't discuss about the first spot cuz there would be no question I agree, ZvZ is more luck based than PvP other than that, OneOther should place stork/bisu in whatever order he wants. (or is FS doin` the PR? I won`t get anxious yet) Also, JD is ... I`m sad not only for him, but for the whole zerg race. How would a PR look with no zergs on it ?! and : + Show Spoiler +I hope free's run in the MSL wasn`t a one-hit-wonder :s Then how can you explain Jaedong haveing 80 % rate in the MU clearly luck can't touch him most of the times . All mirrors have a little luck in them . But when you see a player dominating so strong in a MU like Flash and Jaedong are doing you can see that skill prevails over luck there . PvP even no names take out big guns eny day you can't say that someone has the best PvP in that mu enymore ....
I can give Best's example here: he was over 80% PvP until he meet stork ( ~84% or somethin` like that ), but I don`t want to argue with u `coz u seem to be a nice person oh and yeah, good post from OneOther , he sums it up really nice.
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My prediction :
(some spoiler inside)
+ Show Spoiler +
1- Bisu : almost untouchable, while is opponent try hard (look at is come back against none other than calm)
2 - Free : ok he lost to bisu and flash (what a shame ...), but this guy has skills, look at him playing that's all I have to say...
3 - Jangbi : He was not as close as free to bisu's skill , and lost to Effort, in my opinion not champion material yet, but a very good kiddo
4 - Stork : after he got what he wanted, it seem that stork whant to sleep a little more than he used to in two years of perfect consistancy
5 - Flash : still strong, so far so good in pl and gom
6 - Kal : same as above
7 - Best : Same as above, but don't loose again to insurance terran, and what is your problem with MSL prelim ! kizoo_major then inyeon[3.33] ?!
8 - Jaedong : ouch rough month again, RoRo, Tempest,sea, fbh but I still believe in jaedong skills ... stop misplace lurk egg and overgreedy builds and you'll be fine.
9 - 10 : hmm i don't know maybe FBH ? Yarnc ?
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bisu - stork - flash - jangbi - free - best - kal - jaedong - fantasy - calm
protoss, indeed.
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My top 10 would be:
1. Bisu-I am biased,but Bisu was incredible this month and I think Stork lost his edge a little. I wouldn't be concerned about him yet,but he didn't look that good this month. At least as Bisu. And about Bisu I don't think I have to say much,if you've been watching his games this month,you know what I'm talking about.
2. Stork- Stork is living on his last month performance right now,but it was so fucking good that placing anybody but Bisu above him would be outrageous,and even Bisu is questionable.
3. Flash-Flash really looks like his old self again. His fucking great,his T v Z has some problems,but in his last two games in the MU it looked like it is fixed.
4. Free- Free wasn't as impressive this month as in the last month,but he is still carrying the WStars along with Zero and GGplay,and winning very important matches.
5. Jangbi- He is very close to Free in skill,but I think Free is a little bit more impressive right now.
6. Kal- Kal looks solid in the Proleague for the first time in his life. Okay,he lost some matches,and had an embarassing loss against Yarnc,which reminded me of the old,unstable Kal,but he won crucial ace matches in the Proleague.
7. Jaedong-Ah,Jaedong,why the fuck are you not the Tyrant you used to be? Pls,get your shit back together so we can watch those awesome rapes again,the ground filled with terran blood and vessels exploding,the blue blood of the dragoons,the exposion of probes and sairs,and the death of many good zealots and high templars. All those people above him are still in the Gom and are seeds in at least one Starleague,and much impressive than Jaedong in the Proleague,but I think he is still better than Best because...well,because he is still Jaedong.
8. Best- Best hasn't been shining lately either. He is carrying Skt1 along with Bisu,but had tough losses this month and was knocked out of the MSL in his best MU. His P v P doesn't look unbeatable and he lost to Hwasin in P vT. And I wonder if he can beat Effort in Gom. I personally don't think so,but I hope.
9.Pusan-Pusan is scary and spectaculer,I think he needs to be on this PR. He was knocked out of the MSL,but I think being good in Proleague is more impressive than some players who are in a league and play like shit.
10. FBH-FBH has been carrying Khan to many victories this month,and he beat his rival,Savior yet again,and the last two months,he has beaten nearly every player that counts at least once.
CBNC-Effort,Calm,Zero,Yarnc.
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EPT
