Power Rank 11/10/2008 - Page 37

On December 04 2008 06:10 Shikyo wrote:
Effort seriously needs to be in PR. He's basically destroying everyone.

On December 04 2008 05:04 Hugo(Sphere) wrote:
WTF ?! mate the game against free is the worst possible example of flashs beastly dominance in this MU. Free lost the game all by himself, the tech switch to carriers was completely meaningless since he was doing great job with his arbiters

I love people that like to play the "he did it to himself" arguments. That's the definition of a hater, not me being a "fanboy." You need some logic, and think to yourself, Why would an elite progamer, many are clamoring for a top 5 PR spot, decide to just switch to carriers for fun. Oh, I'm winning this game, and I think I should get my carriers out of the garage, dust them off, and give them a go. Use your head. The same thing happened back in the OSL when Bisu switched to carriers remember that? This game is not golf, it's a 1v1 competition with each player influencing the other in subtle and not so subtle ways throughout the course of a game and even before the game even starts.

Obviously Free felt like he was NOT winning with his arbiter tactics. Why is that? Cause Flash has some of the best recovery abilities among all progamers and it's known. He consistently loses expansions in some of his best matches, but somehow he doesn't seem to fall behind economically, and rebuilds those expansions while still pumping units. This kind of defensive ability puts pressure on other opponents. If you don't understand this dynamic, then you don't understand sport.

It's like people who wonder why do tennis players make lots more unforced errors against Rafael Nadal than they normally do. They just beat themselves. No, Rafael Nadal is great, because his defensive qualities are known, it's one of his weapons (a passive one you could argue) but still a great weapon, and therefore he puts pressure on opponents to go for more than they normally would, therefore resulting in many more "unforced" errors.

Mass recalls take their toll on Protoss as well, it's a lot of units that eventually get mopped up and lots of money invested in each of those, they aren't free. If Free felt he wasn't getting the impact he expected, he might have felt pressure to switch, like Bisu did in the OSL. And seriously can you argue Flash is not the best TvP player in the world, and would you really bet your life savings that Stork or Best could take him in a Bo5?

On December 04 2008 07:49 bebercast wrote:
If Fantasy is Oov apprentice, then Bisu is Midas apprentice
I really don't know why people like to compare players from the same team
I think Fantasy has no apprentice at all, cause he's stronger than any other Terran player from his team
He's probably the best terran player just behind Flash
Flash will be number 1 again in a couple of months
If Midas plays in godmode like before, SKT1 will crush the other teams
Good job from Bisu (the best player of this month) and good luck to Best

On December 04 2008 15:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:


I love Effort, but he has some major issues to work through.

Usually when a big-name player loses to a no-name player in the offlines its an awful upset, and a lot of the time we don't even know anything about the winning player. Upon closer observation, many times those winning players will turn out to be strong contendors in their own right, playing the right game at the right time. Like han vs Jaedong, or this inyeon[3.33] kid vs Best.

However, Effort lost to BestGod. This is unforgivable, and shows a major halt in consistancy in Effort's play. BestGod is an awful player, and the games were embarassing on both ends.

He's up and coming, but he's still up and coming. He's not quite there yet.

On December 04 2008 17:36 Geo.Rion wrote:



Progamers sometimes throw away their games. Nada vs Gorush, Jaedong vs Kal, Bisu vs Stork and there are one million more. There was no way for FLash to recover from that normally. He was down 4 base for nearly 10 minutes, only skills don't mean a shit at that point, you can't beat a top class progamer when your eco is half of his. Free amde his worst decision what he could have made, switching to Carriers, so an opporunity was given to Flash to break him, and Carriers at that point wouldn't be that effective anyways, 3-3 goliaths own the shit out of them. There are 3 possible scenarios in my mind: 1) Free wanted to humiliate Flash 2) Free was overconfident and thought his advantage is great enough to afford some crazy switch like that (8 stargates what the hell) 3) Free was afraid he can't break Flash with ground, and wanted to switch tech befor Flash can secure his side of the map. Flash did everything right from that point attacked when he was supposed to, macroed like he should have, sniped the pylon, microed well. Props to him, but Fre ALLOWED HIM to do this, Free MADE THE WORST DECISION HE COULD. Again props to Flash that he could exploit it, but don't act like he beated Free with half eco, that's bullshit. Maybe other Terrans wouldnt beat him even this way, so you can be proud on Flash if you want, but you must accept that it was more Free's mistake than Flash's skills

On December 04 2008 15:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:


I love Effort, but he has some major issues to work through.

Usually when a big-name player loses to a no-name player in the offlines its an awful upset, and a lot of the time we don't even know anything about the winning player. Upon closer observation, many times those winning players will turn out to be strong contendors in their own right, playing the right game at the right time. Like han vs Jaedong, or this inyeon[3.33] kid vs Best.

However, Effort lost to BestGod. This is unforgivable, and shows a major halt in consistancy in Effort's play. BestGod is an awful player, and the games were embarassing on both ends.

He's up and coming, but he's still up and coming. He's not quite there yet.

On December 04 2008 17:59 Geo.Rion wrote:



OH, FAkesteve you're here? Will you write the new PR?

On December 04 2008 23:40 raga4ka wrote:


Then how about mentioning Yellow in the PR he hasn't lost a ZvT since Midas with plasma in OSL quallification and he rapes zergs so badly now like Jaedong does . He even raped Kal after his failed ling rush in the ACE game ... I think that his ZvP isn't hopeless yet !!!! Yellow made some very good decisions and Kal coudn't keep up with his harrass , he played pretty good for his ZvP standards !

On December 04 2008 23:40 raga4ka wrote:


Then how about mentioning Yellow in the PR he hasn't lost a ZvT since Midas with plasma in OSL quallification and he rapes zergs so badly now like Jaedong does . He even raped Kal after his failed ling rush in the ACE game ... I think that his ZvP isn't hopeless yet !!!! Yellow made some very good decisions and Kal coudn't keep up with his harrass , he played pretty good for his ZvP standards !

On December 05 2008 00:25 Jaeden wrote:


I have to disagree, he didn`t play well at all, but somehow kal played even worse. He had some nice ideas, but the execution was ...

On December 04 2008 15:25 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:


I love Effort, but he has some major issues to work through.

Usually when a big-name player loses to a no-name player in the offlines its an awful upset, and a lot of the time we don't even know anything about the winning player. Upon closer observation, many times those winning players will turn out to be strong contendors in their own right, playing the right game at the right time. Like han vs Jaedong, or this inyeon[3.33] kid vs Best.

However, Effort lost to BestGod. This is unforgivable, and shows a major halt in consistancy in Effort's play. BestGod is an awful player, and the games were embarassing on both ends.

He's up and coming, but he's still up and coming. He's not quite there yet.

On December 04 2008 06:37 Darth Peter wrote:
T v P used to be ForGG's best MU. I've seen many of his T v P's,and lately,he has been eliminated from all the tournaments in T v P. Last season,he lost to Shuttle in the Gom and wasn't even dominating in the match he had won. He lost to Much in the OSL,Stork in the MSL and WCG and to Soo in Gom. Look,I love ForGG,but based on these stats,and the games themselves I can say his T v P is not the best right now. It's like with Jaedong,his Z v P is supposed to be beastly,but I cannot bet on him winning all game sin the MU recently,and the same was with his Z v T. First he had a 15 games winstreak vs Terrans,and then he started to lose to them.

On December 04 2008 17:47 Geo.Rion wrote:



OMG, i can't belive what i just read . Fantasy is CLEARLY Oov's appretince, not because he plays the same way, but cuz Oov is his COACH. Not a coach like January for Khan, SKT has his own, but additionally has Kingdom and Oov as trainer coaches. Now if you are a terran player-coach, what player can you train the best? a terran. So Oov really worked hard with Fantasy, he referred to this in some interviews too, as Kingdom with Best. Why do you think Best's nickname is The Devil's aprentice? Don't try too hard, i will give you a hint Kingdom = '' the Devil Toss"

Try to think befor you post

On December 05 2008 04:56 Hugo(Sphere) wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

1) I never said that Flash can beat people with half econ, starting 10 minutes after, and one hand tied to his ankle
2) If no other Terrans could've beaten Free this way as you mentioned, then why would I not give props to Flash.
3) If Free was afraid he couldn't break Flash with ground, forcing him to switch to Carriers which then got owned well then Flash certainly played a hand in the outcome.

Again, now back to my original point. Sometimes when people come back in games they pull out a crazy amazing move, a 80 yard hail mary pass. Quite obvious. Everyone claps. Sometimes when people come back in games, the other guys does something so amazingly stupid, like kicks a goal in his own net cause he's a retard, and everyone groans. These examples are the most clear, but also the minority

Now most times when someone comes back it's a combination of little things, cleaning up your own play, playing great defense, waiting for a mistake and a window of opportunity. True champs are tough to beat down, and even tougher to close out. Being able to defend well, maintain presence like that in the face of those recalls and then strike the knockblow when it counts, well that's great understanding of the matchup, great understanding starcraft, on top of great mechanics and a minor mistake by Free. If you play that game over again from that exact point of the second recall in a Bo5, I'm sure Free wins it. Yes, I hope that makes you happy. I don't attribute god-like abilities to Flash to win with a single marine microing a force of 50 dragoons. No, I'm saying Flash has a beastly dominance of this matchup, whether it's rolling people, dealing with recalls, taking out carriers, etc. This is an example of him playing great defense and recovering from recalls, which look a lot worse than they are by the way (again, they are not freebies for the Protoss), keeping his head together and continuing to macro up, and take his position on the map. Free knew this, which is why he went carriers, and when he eventually got owned don't act like he was up 5-0 and then kicked 6 goals into his own net.




If no other Terrans could've beat Free this way, as you mentioned, why would I not give props to Flash? Your logic is horrendous at worst, and superfluous as best. In an age of parity and build order importance, you're gonna get into a bad situation from time to time. You're gonna get behind in games. Not every game you win is gonna be a straightforward streamroll like against Pure, and every single game against Rock, lol. Being able to win games like this is important and shows a variety of other skills in the matchup other than "I can roll you at the 11 minute mark."

Free allowed Flash to do this? You act like this game was in the bag for Free, like he 8 gated proxy and Flash went 14 CC, and somehow he gave it away. It was a high quality game, certainly not the level of OSL against Bisu or Stork, but still a solid battle with back and forth swings throughout. Free did not think he had the amazing advantage you speak of.

On December 05 2008 04:21 bebercast wrote:

Don't know, I just can't imagine Oov playing vs Fantasy, Oov said he can't play more than 20 games per day and Fantasy plays like 400 games per day so...
But I can imagine Midas teaching Fantasy how to control 180 marines at the same time
I'm happy that Oov came back to play but it's clearly difficult for him to compete with the new players, they play at a level Oov can't follow, it's sad but it's true
But SKT1 is definitely a good team, not as good as STX but that's cool enough
Peace...