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United States10774 Posts
Darth Peter:
Now, I don't want to put Kal very high- he lost badly verses Jangbi. However, he needs to be above Jaedong. OF COURSE I am not basing it off one game, where did you get the idea that I was? And please stop bringing ancient games into discussion.
Let's take a look at them:
Kal -
MSL Semifinalist (I am not taking this too much into consideration)
Crucial ace match victory vs Stork
Crucial ace match victory vs Jaedong
Jaedong -
Blows his advantage and loses vs FBH, Ace match loss. (Bad play)
Blows a HUGE advantage and loses vs Kal on a ZERG FAVORED map, Ace match loss. (Terrible play)
Why in the world should Jaedong be above Kal?
I tell you again that your guess of Jaedong owning Kal next time they play is not taken into account. How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play?
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My rank at this point of time would be.
1. Stork-he dominaed in the last month,unfortunately you can't drop him because he played few games.
2. Bisu-needs no explanation
3. Free-Free lost to Bisu,but nearly everybody loses to Bisu these days,and he is still much more impressive than Jangbi.
4. Jaedong- I don't care if Jangbi played MSL finals,he lost to the first really good player he met there,and there is no proof that he would have beaten Free,the guy who eliminated JD. JD is solid in the Gom,like Jangbi,and I don't remember Jangbi playing too much in the PL,so you can't tell that his stats would be better had he been playing the same number of matches and against the same caliber of opponents.
5. Jangbi-I already said my opinion about him.
6. Flash
7. Best-they both hadn't done anything this month,and won't really have the chance to do in the rest of the month,so I don't think that they can be ranked higher,but they can't be ranked lower either.
8. Pusan- Pusan is really,really fucking good these days.
9. Firebathero- He is very solid in the PL and has one of the best T v Z and T v T and his T v P is improving.
10. Savior- The Maestro deserves a ranking. He had some of the most entertaining games this month,losing only to Free in a very close series.
Maybe Savior is exchangeable with Calm,but idk,I think the Maestro is more impressive.
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United States10774 Posts
But anyways, I am gonna be gone til December 6th due to some studies.
EDIT: OR NOT. I must keep defending myself in the PR thread. I will find time ;D
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On November 24 2008 18:17 OneOther wrote:
How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play?
For pretty long
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United States10774 Posts
On November 24 2008 18:20 Darth Peter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 18:17 OneOther wrote:
How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play? For pretty long
Okay I guess I won't stop you!
Kal needs to be above Jaedong though.
edit: I don't even like Kal. I hate Kal.
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next PR will obviously be
1 Bogus
2 Cuteangel
3 backho
4 Jinnam
5 poo
rest wont matter
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On November 24 2008 18:17 OneOther wrote:
Darth Peter:
Now, I don't want to put Kal very high- he lost badly verses Jangbi. However, he needs to be above Jaedong. OF COURSE I am not basing it off one game, where did you get the idea that I was? And please stop bringing ancient games into discussion.
Let's take a look at them:
Kal -
MSL Semifinalist (I am not taking this too much into consideration)
Crucial ace match victory vs Stork
Crucial ace match victory vs Jaedong
Jaedong -
Blows his advantage and loses vs FBH, Ace match loss. (Bad play)
Blows a HUGE advantage and loses vs Kal on a ZERG FAVORED map, Ace match loss. (Terrible play)
Why in the world should Jaedong be above Kal?
I tell you again that your guess of Jaedong owning Kal next time they play is not taken into account. How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play?
Be reasonable, if you mention that Andromeda is a Zerg favorite map (stats claim this, i disagree a bit), than mention must be made on Harmony being a Terran heaven. You disagree with me seeing that the TvZ stat is even there? Read Artosis' writeup about the map, it's clearly T favoring, the fact that JD 9pooled Flash's 14CC, Sunny got raped twice by superior players, and Luxury owned a pushover doesnt makes that map a balanced one. You can't use the ace loss against FBH as an argument JD is playing bad. FBH, one of the best, if not the best TvZ player, playing on an easy map for Terran, preparing an innovative, clever build, the match is back and for, 30 minutes long, the terran wins. OK, he fucked up against Kal, but he payed really well at the start, then due to a fatal mistakes, AND Kal's godly micro on a major battle the game turned around.
Don't get me wrong, i don't say that JD must be placed on idontknowwhich position. Seriously, i do not care. If he isn't nr 1, or maybe a close nr 2 than it means he's underpreforming, and i'm not satisfied with it. JD being place on 4th or 8th? Yes thats a huge difference, but nor for me, i want to see him nr 1 or 2, if he doesnt deserves it i dont start arguing about how high he should be placed.
To FAKESTEVE: Will you write the next PR? Or you passed the right to Oneother?
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On November 24 2008 18:18 Darth Peter wrote:
My rank at this point of time would be.
1. Stork-he dominaed in the last month,unfortunately you can't drop him because he played few games.
2. Bisu-needs no explanation
3. Free-Free lost to Bisu,but nearly everybody loses to Bisu these days,and he is still much more impressive than Jangbi.
4. Jaedong- I don't care if Jangbi played MSL finals,he lost to the first really good player he met there,and there is no proof that he would have beaten Free,the guy who eliminated JD. JD is solid in the Gom,like Jangbi,and I don't remember Jangbi playing too much in the PL,so you can't tell that his stats would be better had he been playing the same number of matches and against the same caliber of opponents.
5. Jangbi-I already said my opinion about him.
6. Flash
7. Best-they both hadn't done anything this month,and won't really have the chance to do in the rest of the month,so I don't think that they can be ranked higher,but they can't be ranked lower either.
8. Pusan- Pusan is really,really fucking good these days.
9. Firebathero- He is very solid in the PL and has one of the best T v Z and T v T and his T v P is improving.
10. Savior- The Maestro deserves a ranking. He had some of the most entertaining games this month,losing only to Free in a very close series.
Maybe Savior is exchangeable with Calm,but idk,I think the Maestro is more impressive.
you just left out Kal, Peter
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Oops,your right,I just wanted to put Savior there so badly that eventually Kal slipped my mind
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United States10774 Posts
On November 24 2008 21:36 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 18:17 OneOther wrote:
Darth Peter:
Now, I don't want to put Kal very high- he lost badly verses Jangbi. However, he needs to be above Jaedong. OF COURSE I am not basing it off one game, where did you get the idea that I was? And please stop bringing ancient games into discussion.
Let's take a look at them:
Kal -
MSL Semifinalist (I am not taking this too much into consideration)
Crucial ace match victory vs Stork
Crucial ace match victory vs Jaedong
Jaedong -
Blows his advantage and loses vs FBH, Ace match loss. (Bad play)
Blows a HUGE advantage and loses vs Kal on a ZERG FAVORED map, Ace match loss. (Terrible play)
Why in the world should Jaedong be above Kal?
I tell you again that your guess of Jaedong owning Kal next time they play is not taken into account. How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play? Be reasonable, if you mention that Andromeda is a Zerg favorite map (stats claim this, i disagree a bit), than mention must be made on Harmony being a Terran heaven. You disagree with me seeing that the TvZ stat is even there? Read Artosis' writeup about the map, it's clearly T favoring, the fact that JD 9pooled Flash's 14CC, Sunny got raped twice by superior players, and Luxury owned a pushover doesnt makes that map a balanced one. You can't use the ace loss against FBH as an argument JD is playing bad. FBH, one of the best, if not the best TvZ player, playing on an easy map for Terran, preparing an innovative, clever build, the match is back and for, 30 minutes long, the terran wins. OK, he fucked up against Kal, but he payed really well at the start, then due to a fatal mistakes, AND Kal's godly micro on a major battle the game turned around. placed.
You guys are missing my point. Watch the games, I am saying JD should be lower because he SUCKED. In both games vs FBH and KAL he had an advantage which he managed to blow by doing STUPID things, hence the under-performing. I am no longer talking about statistics alone. Stop telling me FBH and Kal are excellent verses Zerg, because I KNOW. It's the manner that Jaedong played, and he played terribly. In crucial ace matches.
Kal did the exact opposite.
Anyways, I really gotta stop posting for a bit because it's taking too much time.
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Jaedong would have won vs kal if he didnt make that 1 mistake though (1000 lurkers borrowed in middle of goon+temp group)
other than that he played well!
anyway i stick to what i said earlier, jaedong is like a god earlygame nowadays. Does things that makes u think he will rape EASY and then somehow loses some games anyway, its really annoying
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United States10774 Posts
On November 25 2008 00:10 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
Jaedong would have won vs kal if he didnt make that 1 mistake though (1000 lurkers borrowed in middle of goon+temp group)
other than that he played well!
anyway i stick to what i said earlier, jaedong is like a god earlygame nowadays. Does things that makes u think he will rape EASY and then somehow loses some games anyway, its really annoying
okay you can say that for almost every game.
Jaedong has a HUGE lead and he loses the ace match by doing stupid stuff. hence the penalty.
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On November 25 2008 00:20 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 00:10 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
Jaedong would have won vs kal if he didnt make that 1 mistake though (1000 lurkers borrowed in middle of goon+temp group)
other than that he played well!
anyway i stick to what i said earlier, jaedong is like a god earlygame nowadays. Does things that makes u think he will rape EASY and then somehow loses some games anyway, its really annoying okay you can say that for almost every game. Jaedong has a HUGE lead and he loses the ace match by doing stupid stuff. hence some penalty.
exactly, glad we agree
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United States10774 Posts
Anyways I am not going to post (at least try to) until Dec. 6th. Don't reply to me, so I don't have to reply back!
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you wont make it! :O
edit: nn answer keke
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On November 25 2008 00:03 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2008 21:36 Geo.Rion wrote:On November 24 2008 18:17 OneOther wrote:
Darth Peter:
Now, I don't want to put Kal very high- he lost badly verses Jangbi. However, he needs to be above Jaedong. OF COURSE I am not basing it off one game, where did you get the idea that I was? And please stop bringing ancient games into discussion.
Let's take a look at them:
Kal -
MSL Semifinalist (I am not taking this too much into consideration)
Crucial ace match victory vs Stork
Crucial ace match victory vs Jaedong
Jaedong -
Blows his advantage and loses vs FBH, Ace match loss. (Bad play)
Blows a HUGE advantage and loses vs Kal on a ZERG FAVORED map, Ace match loss. (Terrible play)
Why in the world should Jaedong be above Kal?
I tell you again that your guess of Jaedong owning Kal next time they play is not taken into account. How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play? Be reasonable, if you mention that Andromeda is a Zerg favorite map (stats claim this, i disagree a bit), than mention must be made on Harmony being a Terran heaven. You disagree with me seeing that the TvZ stat is even there? Read Artosis' writeup about the map, it's clearly T favoring, the fact that JD 9pooled Flash's 14CC, Sunny got raped twice by superior players, and Luxury owned a pushover doesnt makes that map a balanced one. You can't use the ace loss against FBH as an argument JD is playing bad. FBH, one of the best, if not the best TvZ player, playing on an easy map for Terran, preparing an innovative, clever build, the match is back and for, 30 minutes long, the terran wins. OK, he fucked up against Kal, but he payed really well at the start, then due to a fatal mistakes, AND Kal's godly micro on a major battle the game turned around. placed. You guys are missing my point. Watch the games, I am saying JD should be lower because he SUCKED. In both games vs FBH and KAL he had an advantage which he managed to blow by doing STUPID things, hence the under-performing. I am no longer talking about statistics alone. Stop telling me FBH and Kal are excellent verses Zerg, because I KNOW. It's the manner that Jaedong played, and he played terribly. In crucial ace matches. Kal did the exact opposite. Anyways, I really gotta stop posting for a bit because it's taking too much time.
First of all i didn't say anything about he being higher. Against Kal he fucked up, maybe he got overconfident, or who knows. Against FBH he didn't gain a huge lead, no way, he survived the cheese with bearable losses, he lost a few lings drones and had to change his bo. About his muta micro, FBH really cornered those mutas in a fashon that i haven't seen in quite a while against someone who has very good mutamicro. He had some wrong descisions. MAN! Everybody has in every game, just when you loose it's easier to focus point out mistakes, and when you face an unfamiliar build it's natural to commit more. He had some very good moves, if you really saw that game you could tell that there were two top notch players fighting, and the one with better preparation took the win in a long game. Don't tell me he's playing crappy, not in those games. he could have won, yet lost? Yeah, that's why he isn't and will not be this time in the top 3.
sry i just noticed u worte 10 minuts ago to us to not reply, sry didn't saw it.
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Jaedong looks to be losing his shape rapidly. In the last game JD's 3rd gas was late and 2 gas vs 2 gas for long. FBH knows he surely won that game at 10minutes mark when all the mutas are dead before even picking out 6 marines, hence his usual self. He used the extra gas to pump vessels and bc to ridicule. Against Kal he would not have won if the 1000 lurkers had been in any other position which force him to engage. Kal has eco and full tech, once protoss gets 3rd and 4th up in andromeda they are unstoppable. JD just didn't do enough damage early.
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United States10774 Posts
On November 25 2008 00:40 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2008 00:03 OneOther wrote:On November 24 2008 21:36 Geo.Rion wrote:On November 24 2008 18:17 OneOther wrote:
Darth Peter:
Now, I don't want to put Kal very high- he lost badly verses Jangbi. However, he needs to be above Jaedong. OF COURSE I am not basing it off one game, where did you get the idea that I was? And please stop bringing ancient games into discussion.
Let's take a look at them:
Kal -
MSL Semifinalist (I am not taking this too much into consideration)
Crucial ace match victory vs Stork
Crucial ace match victory vs Jaedong
Jaedong -
Blows his advantage and loses vs FBH, Ace match loss. (Bad play)
Blows a HUGE advantage and loses vs Kal on a ZERG FAVORED map, Ace match loss. (Terrible play)
Why in the world should Jaedong be above Kal?
I tell you again that your guess of Jaedong owning Kal next time they play is not taken into account. How long will you keep saying Jaedong will beat player A and B and C next time they play? Be reasonable, if you mention that Andromeda is a Zerg favorite map (stats claim this, i disagree a bit), than mention must be made on Harmony being a Terran heaven. You disagree with me seeing that the TvZ stat is even there? Read Artosis' writeup about the map, it's clearly T favoring, the fact that JD 9pooled Flash's 14CC, Sunny got raped twice by superior players, and Luxury owned a pushover doesnt makes that map a balanced one. You can't use the ace loss against FBH as an argument JD is playing bad. FBH, one of the best, if not the best TvZ player, playing on an easy map for Terran, preparing an innovative, clever build, the match is back and for, 30 minutes long, the terran wins. OK, he fucked up against Kal, but he payed really well at the start, then due to a fatal mistakes, AND Kal's godly micro on a major battle the game turned around. placed. You guys are missing my point. Watch the games, I am saying JD should be lower because he SUCKED. In both games vs FBH and KAL he had an advantage which he managed to blow by doing STUPID things, hence the under-performing. I am no longer talking about statistics alone. Stop telling me FBH and Kal are excellent verses Zerg, because I KNOW. It's the manner that Jaedong played, and he played terribly. In crucial ace matches. Kal did the exact opposite. Anyways, I really gotta stop posting for a bit because it's taking too much time. First of all i didn't say anything about he being higher. Against Kal he fucked up, maybe he got overconfident, or who knows. Against FBH he didn't gain a huge lead, no way, he survived the cheese with bearable losses, he lost a few lings drones and had to change his bo. About his muta micro, FBH really cornered those mutas in a fashon that i haven't seen in quite a while against someone who has very good mutamicro. He had some wrong descisions. MAN! Everybody has in every game, just when you loose it's easier to focus point out mistakes, and when you face an unfamiliar build it's natural to commit more. He had some very good moves, if you really saw that game you could tell that there were two top notch players fighting, and the one with better preparation took the win in a long game. Don't tell me he's playing crappy, not in those games. he could have won, yet lost? Yeah, that's why he isn't and will not be this time in the top 3. sry i just noticed u worte 10 minuts ago to us to not reply, sry didn't saw it.
Okay I am gonna have to reply to this. Jaedong was in a very, very good shape against FBH. FBH floating Factory strategy completely failed, all that Jaedong lost was one drone and a couple lings, while FBH had slow expo, sub-ideal SCV count, slow acad, slow ebay upgrade, and slow rax. Jaedong really did have a comfortable lead. Not only that, he raped FBH's initial marine and medic force while taking an expo, right before mutas. That is THE ideal situation for Zerg. Then he blew it.
Whatever the reason may be, he just sucked against Kal. It was nothing but ugly. That makes me wanna put Kal higher is that JD did these stupid things in ace matches, and I think that needs to be penalized. Jaedong is not playing at the high consistent level he used to play ALWAYS play at, win or lose.
It's not about the preparation; it's about Jaedong's dropped game play. I don't see how you can deny from watching those two ace matches. Those were crucial games he should have won, yet he managed to lose. Jaedong is not playing the same way he was two months ago, like it or not. I hate to reiterate, but Kal did the exact opposite and won when he needed to for the team - against Stork and JD himself.
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Regardless the power rank, all hail to stork the new no.1 next month. All the new maps are favourable to P and bad for Z which explains u will see stork and bisu trading no.1 and no.2 for next few months. Initially they thought Harmony and Chupung are good TvP. But some new strategies such as proxy gate cheese or gas steal make it very bad for TvP for such short maps. The small route for tanks make storms imba too.
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Kal is crazy inconsistent, I mean, he drops games not because of mistakes but he just looks bad in some games and good in others.
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EPT
