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Wow, VioleTAK speaks!
Yeah, don't trip, Steve. Unless it's fun for you to argue this stuff, hehe..
People.. what he's doing is looking at how strong of a player they are right now. Medals and shit don't matter.
The fact of the matter is... Jaedong is incredibly good in 2 MUs and now he's solid in the third. He's not #1 in the Power Rank because he beat Stork, he's #1 in the power rank because HE PLAYED REALLY WELL when he happened to be beating Stork. He also recently beat Free who has one of the better PvZs in the game after Bisu so it wasn't just a matter of Stork being a fluke.
Bisu is #2 because he's had some bad breaks but is still PLAYING REALLY WELL. He's still the second most solid player in the game.
Stork is #3 because... well you get the fucking idea. (although Stork's PvZ isn't that bad I don't think)
All the way down the line he's got it down really well as far as ranking how well players have been playing lately, which is kindof the point of PR if I understand it.
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Calgary26003 Posts
Nice Steve, I'm really glad you decided to put Jaedong first over Bisu. Top seven look right to me, and I don't follow proleague or the minor leagues enough to comment below that.
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i hope for 815 i think that he really deservs to be in PR
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but yeah, i guess we will all see today how sea's odt will go.. probably sea and light will make it out, but who knowS? oh well, good job on the rankings. at least we have something to argue over since. better than nothing ><
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These power ranks are becoming more and more, a reason to ridicule each other's opinions (including the OP) about who is best since there is no dominant player anymore... still Sea @ 6th must require a rather imaginative argument 
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Savior has looked pretty crappy in his latest proleague games, except the game vs. Hwasin which was pretty nice. However he lost 3-2 to MSL champion mind (Bisu lost 3-1) and he lost 2-1 to Bisu in OSL. These are nothing to scoff at. Savior has continued to consistently shown strong performances in both leagues every season. His proleague hasn't been so great this year but reading some replies in this thread you don't seem to regard proleague that much (and Bisu's proleague isn't so good either).
I'd still be more confident in Savior advancing further or winning leagues more than Sea or Much. Mind has a real lot to prove and isn't in the OSL and Stork has consistenly shown he ultimately fails in every league; only Jaedong and Bisu I'd have more confidence in and Bisu looks like he is definitely faltering so we'll see how next season goes. Sea and Much both seem to either fail or choke in leagues. Savior has failed lately but at least has shown in the past he is capable of winning and doesn't choke.
You're very right that Savior making it out of ODT will say a real lot because it's a hard group and will show if he really has what it takes to still win when it matters (and if his ZvT isn't completely crap now). Although he hasn't won anything for two MSL/OSL seasons he's still one of the only players to consistently advance far in both leagues. My point is if Savior advances to OSL I still think he has a better shot to win either league than almost anyone else. If he fails well I'd have to say maybe it really is pretty much the complete end of his reign. Although he could be like Nada and win an OSL or MSL randomely sometime in the future.
Oh well, I can't find much fault in the power rank. What's up with the "lol @ sea and much" comments? So dumb to just make a comment like that, even I think Savior should be as low as he is, he isn't looking that good in the past month and this is a monthly ranking.
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Savior behind Much and Sea... Maybe he looks bad but he is still better then those two players... Very subjective power rank.
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On January 03 2008 14:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2008 13:56 hacpee wrote:On January 03 2008 12:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On January 03 2008 12:28 TheTyranid wrote:
So its OSL finals/Survivor fail vs stellar Proleague preformance/3-0 raping of Bisu. I will agree that the first outweighs the secong but the bottom line is that Stork is in better shape than Bisu despite those losses. Bisu is entering a slump and in January he will fail even more. Nobody can be dominating forever.
Btw, TLPD is not that relevant but check the recent preformance of the two players. Stork is 11-6 in Dec and Bisu is 3-6. we're in a transition period where both leagues are starting up again. Bisu is above Stork right now because Stork blew his load in the semifinal yet again. Stork's abysmal play towards the end of the month puts him below Bisu, who placed top 3 in both leagues, but above everyone else. Third place on the power rank isn't bad and some people are acting like being third after Bisu is the same as being tenth after nine people. Bisu's PvP and PvT are still excellent. Stork's are certainly better, but his PvZ is at a level that hinders him in a big way. Any strong Zerg in a Starleague and Stork is probably done, that's a massive handicap. Bisu is more likely to win PvT and PvP series than Stork is to win a PvZ series, and Bisu's likeliness to win a PvZ series trumps anything Stork can do. You people need to remember that Bisu's PvT and PvP are THE BEST AFTER STORK, and Stork's PvZ is one of the worst in ProGaming. Isn't Bisu 56% pvp and PvT this year? How is that THE BEST AFTER STORK? Please look past hard statistics. Bisu has a lot of losses because he is prone to do wierd things in ProLeague that don't work. In more important games his PvT play is excellent; sometimes he pulls out wins that look utterly impossible a moment before (IE, his series against Hwasin this past MSL). PvP... PvP is so build-order intensive at times that its hard to judge a player's abilities by his winrate. In fact, it's hard to judge a player in any manner by his PvP, unless you have personally seen so many games that you can get an idea of it. I will concede that Bisu's PvP is somewhat on-and-off, but EVERY Protoss' PvP is on-and-off. Stork, certainly less so, but Stork's PvZ is permanently set to 'off'.
You mean like how he choked against Stork and Mind in the Starleagues? You can't base everything on the starleagues, you need to take overall performance into account, which includes proleagues.
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United States7488 Posts
This is very well done Steve. Most of the posters complaining about the ranking don't really know what they are talking about.
Jaedong: OSL Champ, and he looked good doing it. OSL is the more prestigious league (if you disagree you haven't been around long enough to know) so giving the OSL more weight in the ranking makes sense.
Here's a little tip for Power Rank weight: OSL > MSL > OSC/ODT > Survivor > Proleague > Other
See how low proleague is! Don't use it as a basis for your arguement.
Bisu: Got really deep into both leagues. At the point you can only lose to champion caliber players anyway, Between fighting to keep an OSL seed and runner up in the MSL last month, there is no hard evidence yet that Bisu won't be able to continue such performances.
Stork: Never able to close the deal when he needs to; always a runner up. Sure he beat Bisu, but he didn't even manage to qualify for MSL, and a top player can't be doing things like that. Proleague is the least weighted of the professional events, it always has been. In the eyes of the fans this is true also.
(aside on Proleague) Fans recognize the individual league heroes much more than the heroes in the proleague (unless they are also individual league heroes). For instance: when fans voted which players to represent each race in Superfight 5, they voted for the indivudual league players, not the best proleague performers. Even here on team liquid, people are citing losses to certain "no-name" players like Hiya and Haran. These players are doing well in proleague, they are not "no-names" like others in this thread might have you believe. Doing well in proleague just happens to be their only accomplishment. Proleague doesn't matter all that much in terms of power in the eyes of most fans. It doesn't matter as much as Individual leagues and their qualifying tournaments in terms of weight on the power rank. The very best in proleague might barely make the tenth spot in a slow month of individual performers. Proleague importance on the power rank is minimal. It's always been that way. Deal with it! (end aside)
Mind: Not a whole lot of action, what he did in the Proleague isn't spectacular, but it isn't shit either. It shows at least that his win wasn't a complete fluke. He moves up mostly because no one else deserves to be as high.
Much: He won the OSC. He passed tough players to get there and secured the fourth seed in the next OSL. Anyone who got to the finals of an individual league is above him, no one else is and no one else should be at this point. Much has been doing well.
Sea: I see no bias in this position. (I don't even like Sea, but that doesn't really matter). Sea got second in the OSC, losing to Much. That's pretty damn good. He qualified for MSL. He's winning and looking good while doing it. There isn't another player below him whose recent power surpasses Sea. Instead of complaining "OMG Sea!... BIAS!!!" How about suggesting a player that belong there instead. Try to answer this: What have the players below Sea been doing to merit putting them here instead? Nothing. Sea has been doing it better. You didn't successfully bring up any valid arguements that last month and you won't be able to do that this month either.
Savior: Savior hasn't been looking so great. He hasn't had many chances to show that he can still perform, but the few chances he has gotten have looked pretty bad. In the coming month Savior may prove himself again, and then he can move up. But for now he doesn't belong on the top half of the ranking.
Flash: Qualified for the MSL and has been getting into the leagues each season. He has also been looking much better in his wins recently.
Light: Hasn't shown much, but there is no evidence to just kick him out unless all other players can show that they look better than he has recently, which they haven't.
Xellos: Deserving, got a ways into the OSC before falling out and just got done with a top four in the last MSL. Additionally he has been looking stronger as of late.
The only choice I would have different than Steve would be to switch Light and Xellos.
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I agree with Semi-old guy, violetak and f10 as usual.
I feel like the power rank couldn't be clearer going into this month and Steve nailed it.
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if winning osc is so great for power rank, then rock should have been way higher up in the last months
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and there have been plenty of players doing better than light this month. All four of his games were uninspiring.
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United States7488 Posts
On January 04 2008 09:27 fusionsdf wrote:
if winning osc is so great for power rank, then rock should have been way higher up in the last months
But back when Rock won the MSL was still going on. The leagues are a little more separated this time around.
edit: plus Rock literally had nothing else to boast at the time, the wins were sloppy and if you recall most of the games it looks like he was winning by accident. Both Sea and Much are also getting things done elsewhere.
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yes, but light isnt
besides, to have players like anytime not even make 10th spot anytime in the last 3 months is stupid.
sea made powerrank even before the finals of osc
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United States7488 Posts
On January 04 2008 10:03 fusionsdf wrote:
yes, but light isnt
besides, to have players like anytime not even make 10th spot anytime in the last 3 months is stupid.
sea made powerrank even before the finals of osc
Anytime has been in the #10 spot within the last three months. Players like Light and Sea have managed to do more than him as Anytime didn't even get to the ODT.
The very good players don't always have to qualify for both leagues, but they at least should be getting to Survivor/Dual to have a shot at it each season. And the best players are the ones you expect to make both leagues under almost any circumstances.
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yessssss Xellos in top 10 makes me happy.
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only thing i would change is savior above sea. i mean, bisu's proleague record is 1-4, his one win coming from hero. but we never deny he is stilll going to be a stable player in the individual leagues. savior is 3-11 in proleague, bout the same % as bisu, but we constantly discredit him for doing horrible when he is always advancing in both leagues far as the ro4. if sea manages to do wlel this coming season in the individual leagues, than i am all up for having him place higher, but until than, like semi said, osl > msl > osc/odt > survivor > Proleague, and savior has done much more in recent osl and msl than sea has done ever in his whole career.
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United States5262 Posts
GI, I think you mixed it up. Stork has a slightly better PvP and PvT than Bisu. Bisu's PvZ though is wayyy better than Stork's. Stork's PvP is pretty godly, actually.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 03 2008 14:24 GrandInquisitor wrote:
You can't keep hammering Stork's PvZ and continue to shine on Jaedong's ZvP. Either Stork has respectable PvZ (in which you can still maintain that Bisu is #2 ahead of Stork, since I'd agree that they're about even on PvP, maybe Bisu slight edge, Stork maybe slight edge on PvT, but Bisu's demonstrated superiority at PvZ trumps both of those) or Jaedong's ZvP isn't that impressive after all if Stork's PvZ is "one of the worst in ProGaming", as you so boldly state, in which case either of the Protosses deserve the top spot.
you don't watch progaming?
jaedong looked fucking good against Stork and Stork looked like a retard. why do you post here if you don't watch games and don't understand basic concepts about player skill?
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EPT
