EPTIs Protoss too strong in SC2? - Page 3
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themagiccan
Canada4 Posts
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sertman
United States540 Posts
Also, weird idea, but what about immortal speed? What if they were as fast as say, a reaver or a queen off creep? It'd slow down pushes that are incredibly strong right now, require protosses to do actual prism micro in battles, make proxy robo kind of silly, and overall make it a higher skill unit to use. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27282 Posts
On June 01 2019 04:08 sertman wrote: I think that the Warp Prism in its current state is comically overpowered in the hands of a top Protoss. It can pick up units instantly from a mile away, fast-warp-in infinite units, power buildings, juggle without delay, etc. It's no longer impressive that someone can juggle 2 immortals to kill like 20 roaches, it's expected and now just way too frustrating to watch. I think that a single nerf to any of the things I mentioned would help balance at the higher levels. Also, weird idea, but what about immortal speed? What if they were as fast as say, a reaver or a queen off creep? It'd slow down pushes that are incredibly strong right now, require protosses to do actual prism micro in battles, make proxy robo kind of silly, and overall make it a higher skill unit to use. If it’s too slow it’s just straight up bad as anything other than a pylon you protect with your army I think that aspect you mentioned of the warp prism is obviously a too strong, namely the pickup range. On the other hand actually a lot of these pushes don’t really use all that much juggling, so the most obviously overpowered aspect of the prism (IMO) isn’t actually a factor in at least some of these push variants. Artosis and NoRegret have done a few videos specifically on these pushes, I’d definitely recommend watching them on Artosis’ YouTube channel. I think the most meaningful nerf that would keep pushes viable but less potent would be addressing the actual warping in aspect of the Prism. Create some kind of trade off, be it units cost slightly more, they take longer to warp in, or they put your gateways on a higher cool down. Something like that I think is long overdue, plus it makes lategame giant warpins slightly weaker, or more of a decision to make rather than something you do brainlessly, which would definitely help T a bit in the lategame too. I always felt Blizz should experiment with the gateway/warp gate dynamic anyway, they could at least look at the prism in isolation. A trade off like gateways build you more stuff vs warp gates giving you deployment possibilities I think would have added a lot of depth and strategy to Toss macro | ||
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contv
35 Posts
On June 01 2019 04:08 sertman wrote: I think that the Warp Prism in its current state is comically overpowered in the hands of a top Protoss. It can pick up units instantly from a mile away, fast-warp-in infinite units, power buildings, juggle without delay, etc. It's no longer impressive that someone can juggle 2 immortals to kill like 20 roaches, it's expected and now just way too frustrating to watch. I think that a single nerf to any of the things I mentioned would help balance at the higher levels. Also, weird idea, but what about immortal speed? What if they were as fast as say, a reaver or a queen off creep? It'd slow down pushes that are incredibly strong right now, require protosses to do actual prism micro in battles, make proxy robo kind of silly, and overall make it a higher skill unit to use. Comically overpowered sounds about right. What's especially hilarious is that, pickup range coupled with instant pickup and immediate fire upon drop down, means that an immortal is effectively able to continuously teleport around with zero/minimal impact on its damage output. A nerf to pickup range would not affect the majority of Protoss players, who don't possess the level of micro required to truly abuse immortal/prism like we are seeing in the GSL (and top international tournaments). It is a far more reasonable nerf than something like changing warp gate cooldowns to offset the prism's absurd overpoweredness. | ||
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machinus
United States292 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27282 Posts
On June 01 2019 10:06 contv wrote: Comically overpowered sounds about right. What's especially hilarious is that, pickup range coupled with instant pickup and immediate fire upon drop down, means that an immortal is effectively able to continuously teleport around with zero/minimal impact on its damage output. A nerf to pickup range would not affect the majority of Protoss players, who don't possess the level of micro required to truly abuse immortal/prism like we are seeing in the GSL (and top international tournaments). It is a far more reasonable nerf than something like changing warp gate cooldowns to offset the prism's absurd overpoweredness. I agree that it should be nerfed in that way, it’s too high. Range. On the other hand, a lot of the pushes people are complaining about don’t have anything to do with Immortal juggling tipping the scales Goblin’s recent WCS run had a lot of really really fast timings with one immortal no ups for example, he didn’t really abuse the prism at all. Just hit the timing and won or lost The actual balance issue isn’t Immortal juggling (although I’d still nerf pickup range), it’s how hard it is to scout what is coming and react appropriately Actually nerfing the prism’s warp in some way you can still have all ins, but they hit slightly less hard, and they’re less flexible to execute on the fly. Nerfing pickup range just nerfs specific thing which isn’t even a factor in some pushes, and doesn’t really address the root of the problem. I’d still do it anyway because it’s too high though | ||
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ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
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HOOCHIEMOMMA
6 Posts
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machinus
United States292 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16086 Posts
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Topim0
Finland8 Posts
On June 01 2019 04:08 sertman wrote: I think that the Warp Prism in its current state is comically overpowered in the hands of a top Protoss. It can pick up units instantly from a mile away, fast-warp-in infinite units, power buildings, juggle without delay, etc. Didn't know warp prism units are free and don't fill the unit cap. That's really overpowered! No unit from protoss should be free! | ||
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machinus
United States292 Posts
On June 01 2019 23:18 Charoisaur wrote: No - There are just more strong Protoss players in korea. Stronger than Maru and TY? No, there's a problem. | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
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jessewperez1
3 Posts
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Railgan
Switzerland1509 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On May 26 2019 04:31 Dedraterllaerau wrote: What exactly do you think you are going to accomplish with these kinds of polls? With TL's news headlines like "Protoss dominate Super Tournament, RO8 bracket set" or "PartinG advances, Protoss lock in half of Code S RO16 spots" Should not the focus be on all the players that advanced instead of what race they play? As the biggest portal for foreign SC content you are a big part of shaping our community, and your best idea of contributing to this is putting more gasoline on the fire for all those toxic "PROTOSSED" balance spamming whiners you see everywhere from twitch chat to in-game SC2? How about giving the Protoss players who have in fact played brilliantly recently some credit, instead of making them feel like they are carried by imbalance. Start showing some professional behavior instead of taking these passive aggressive pokes at professional players choice of in game race, it is after all how they make a living. +1 for this. It's gotten crazy recently and TL has been repeatedly throwing fuel on the fire. A while back when P matchups were literally below 50% people were saying the exact same things based on nothing more than extremely biased emotions. It's wrong to legitimize this kind of biased racial hate that has become so common in sc2 media. Highly relevant: | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
On June 02 2019 03:15 machinus wrote: Stronger than Maru and TY? No, there's a problem. i mean, there are some REALLY strong protoss players in Korea. Classic and Stats come to mind. | ||
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sweffymo
United States62 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
On May 26 2019 04:31 Dedraterllaerau wrote: What exactly do you think you are going to accomplish with these kinds of polls? With TL's news headlines like "Protoss dominate Super Tournament, RO8 bracket set" or "PartinG advances, Protoss lock in half of Code S RO16 spots" Should not the focus be on all the players that advanced instead of what race they play? As the biggest portal for foreign SC content you are a big part of shaping our community, and your best idea of contributing to this is putting more gasoline on the fire for all those toxic "PROTOSSED" balance spamming whiners you see everywhere from twitch chat to in-game SC2? How about giving the Protoss players who have in fact played brilliantly recently some credit, instead of making them feel like they are carried by imbalance. Start showing some professional behavior instead of taking these passive aggressive pokes at professional players choice of in game race, it is after all how they make a living. Exactly. I feel like I'm browsing some random battle.net threads filled with low league whiners as of late. I could have understood if there was at least some evidence of protoss being favoured. But there is literally none. Aligulac winrates, tournament results, ladder race representation - everything indicates that protoss is at best on par with other races. Everything that avilo fanboys are ranting about (all ins, tvp lategame issues etc) were present in the game since beta. But every couple of years or so they crawl out of their caves to remind everyone they still hadnt figured out how to play their race properly. It's just sad to see that tl supports such bs these days. | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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