EDIT: PLEASE SEE MY POST ON PAGE 3 OF THIS THREAD. IT MAY CLEAR UP SOME CONFUSION REGARDING THIS FEATURE.
EDIT #2: I HAVE ADDED A JUSTIFICATION FOR MY DECISIONS ON PAGE 6 OF THIS THREAD. A SIMILAR WRITE-UP WILL BE POSTED WITH THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF EVERY SUBSEQUENT LIST.
And the "close, but no cigar" awards go to...
Iris - Grab an Oxy pad or eight and we'll see how you're doing in a month. July - You're close, but not close enough for me to toss you the Twinkie that is a spot in my top ten. Silver - Try doing something other than cherry-picking your way into an MSL final by winning at your only competent matchup. ZergMan - I'm sorry, buddy, but you've got to win at something other than ZvZ to make it in <i>this town</i>.
And the "but where are...?" awards go to...
oov - I just don't care about you winning WCG. Do something against players of your own caliber. Yellow - You lost to Ever)P(TT--twice. Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook.
I thought I would love this feature simply due to the awesome concept, but DJ, your every opinion on every player on that entire list mirrors my own...exactly!
I don't know how the hell that happened, but I don't doubt that I'll love reading the updates for this. Nice work.
On November 22 2006 00:56 maVi wrote: I'm missing Reach cause it's Reach...
Reach is a disgrace to anything that was once manly.
Oh and Nal_rA should be much higher, even if you don't like him. He should have the number 5 or 6 spot in my opinion, I mean what has Gorush done lately? Not a bad list though... someone really needs to kick Savior's ass.
I'm looking forward to more of your work. Man, Team Liquid keeps getting better and better.
I think parts like "I hate ra" and "good-fucking-friend" make your otherwise excellent ranking look worse than it could have. A front page feature should be well mannered in my eyes.
Really nice to see you pick up on Anytime's play in the finals though, I've missed that from other reports/threads.
I feel like this list is based on who you like the most. GGPlay on 6th place? You have to be kidding me. He and GoRush shouldn`t even be on this list.
Further, why do you write I hate this or that guy? (Who cares who do you hate or not, keep it for yourself). If this list, like this site is serious, then you shouldn`t have said it. It is totally disrespectful (IMO).
Hmm, Nal_ra should be 6th and ggplay and gorush should be lower. And I kinda agree on keeping your personal feelings out of it...It just makes it lame.
NaDa might have had an easier field to get through to make it to the finals but he absolutely played better than Anytime in the final games themselves.
anytime > nada?? =/ dont agree there.... anytime has had his fair share of flops... same as nada... and um, ggplay, is kinda overated atm, he kinda dropped off in osl and msl and isnt dominating like he was... daezang cuddve made that list insted of jju... i mean, he has incredibly exciting play and check out his games from last night!!
On November 22 2006 01:59 Card5hark.cF- wrote: Hmm, Nal_ra should be 6th and ggplay and gorush should be lower. And I kinda agree on keeping your personal feelings out of it...It just makes it lame.
The man has a soap box, and you expect him not to shout?
Further, why do you write I hate this or that guy? (Who cares who do you hate or not, keep it for yourself). If this list, like this site is serious, then you shouldn`t have said it. It is totally disrespectful
Bisu? over Jaedong? Etterbomb YOUS A NOOBBBb. GF? I hate GF but he is very good right now. Sea? Why is Sea so high -_-;; Imma stomp your ass for liking losers. Sea? Bisu? GGplay should be high up -_-;; that boy is HAWT and if anytime wasn't there, slowing his OSL run would have been quite difficult.
But gj for the first one -_-;; I'll help give you better insight for the 2nd ^_^ <3
I bet in pt.2 we might see Daezang or Much for a new toss -_-;; And love Yellow[Name] more~ better than GR -___-;;
im starting to think this list is bullshit already, and if changes arent made very soon im gona just ignore this list from now on in my daily visits to TL cuz it really sucks, and your comments make it so much more disgusting.
Maybe more people should get involved. Make it like a pool, but only for the crew members. And especially for crew members who do fallow progaming closely (Mani, jkillashark and others). Like every crew member should have 10 possible votes, and then everyone should vote for "his favorite". The votes are from 1-10, meaning that you will give 10 to the player you think is the best atm, you should give 5 to the player who did very good job, but doesn`t stand out, etc. Also once you gave 10 to the player, 10 option is no longer available to you. Shit this is too complicated to make.
Lets say 5 people will work on this, then all them should do their the top 10 player list based on their believe. Then the lists should be compared, and based on average of all lists, the final top 10 should be created. Yeah this is better.
LOL you guys are dicks. He said give reasons. July's been getting reamed everywhere and I don't think anyone puts him in top 10 right now. You got a better list then post one. Cuz we can all agree Kespa with Chojja as top 5 is -_-;;.
I just dislike Bisu a lot. And Sea... I don't like how either plays.
On November 22 2006 03:28 Red_Dragon wrote: Ok some brainstorming
Maybe more people should get involved. Make it like a pool, but only for the crew members. And especially for crew members who do fallow progaming closely (Mani, jkillashark and others). Like every crew member should have 10 possible votes, and then everyone should vote for "his favorite". The votes are from 1-10, meaning that you will give 10 to the player you think is the best atm, you should give 5 to the player who did very good job, but doesn`t stand out, etc. Also once you gave 10 to the player, 10 option is no longer available to you. Shit this is too complicated to make.
Lets say 5 people will work on this, then all them should do their the top 10 player list based on their believe. Then the lists should be compared, and based on average of all lists, the final top 10 should be created. Yeah this is better.
I have proposed the EXACT same idea in the MiR forums before this list went public. They said it's shit. So dun worry, you have a representative among the staff, it's just that they think our ideas suck.
And I also think personal remarks dominating the analysis aren't giving it due honors unfortunately.
I like the list and agree on alot of the stuff, but Jaedong should defnitely be there solely due to his proleague performance, but also due to qualifying for MSL(& maybe getting out of group of the death - ODT).
Also tell July Gorush never rushes(Shinhan1 anyone?).
Really cool feature! I agree with most of the player's rankings up there, and the close but no cigar part under it is also great, since we get to see why some players didn't make it
On November 21 2006 05:02 DJEtterStyle wrote: Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook.
I agree with neraly everything in the rating besides Nal_rA (<3) Would ve rated him@ about 6 because he always shows great perfomance ( and he's a Toss 8[)
You cannot call it a power ranking when one person shows their biased opinion. I laughed throughout the whole thing. Not to mention DJ's bad rep. ;/ Maybe all the TL Admins should vote.
I guess it really depends on what the goal of Power Rank is.....if its for a somewhat accurate depiction of the pro scene but heavily influenced by satirical and cynical remarks then id say its fine the way it is. Dj has a pretty good writing style and i like his bone dry cutting remarks.
Having a team vote on would a) lead to hours and hours of debating over who goes into the positions of 4-10 b) end having an executive decision probably being made and we'd probably see Dj's result anyways
He finished 3rd this time, but nevermind, i see your point. But i think this ranking is not only about achievements (we have kespa for that... somehow) it's about the way you play, how impressive you are, it also depends a lot of your opponents. losing with honors to a famous opponent might be better than winning barely against doggi. At least i think that's the way it works. At least, when i look it that way, it makes more sense. There were a lot of people saying Sea or GGPlay were really on fire and able to win the last OSL, they had impressive records, Bisu showed excellent performance in group stage too. And MSL, despite its excellent players pool, was a bit disapointing. Ra lost to Boxer really easily in a game everyone was waiting for, Silver got far but his wins were not spectacular at all and in the end, Savior as the monster he is, came and crushed everyone.
In terms of show, OSL was better, so i guess OSL players got rewarded for that!
I dont see a reason ranking anytime higher than NaDa. Explaining it with the better play of anytime in the finals is making it even worse. Where did anytime play better than NaDa in the finals ? Game 5 was a rape , wasn it ?
Whatever.. i dont mind the rankings at all, especially cause it's not even the question if the ranking is accurate or right, after all it's only the creators opinion, so i dont even know why we should all discuss it, you can barely change someones mind..
Anyone who puts Savior on #1 and lets RA take the piss is all right in my book. I'm condoning this sort of action and fully support its continued existence.
I agree with most of the rank (dont know about some spots since i cant follow all the games now that my pc is broke).
but you bash some players for not getting results, and you put anytime over NaDa who is exactly getting results. His way to the final was easier, sure. But he won when it matters, against anytime (who we agree is a monster P).
Too bad you cant use DTs in all games in a bo5 series
I like the feature but agree that if you're TOO personal when you write it about the players it makes it sound trivial. Just change the language you're using, make it a BIT more serious. I think that would help a lot.
Edit: a lot of these quotes had positive remarks as well, i just selected what i thought showed a problem.
On November 22 2006 01:37 humblegar wrote: I think parts like "I hate ra" and "good-fucking-friend" make your otherwise excellent ranking look worse than it could have. A front page feature should be well mannered in my eyes.
On November 22 2006 01:49 Red_Dragon wrote: If this list, like this site is serious, then you shouldn`t have said it. It is totally disrespectful (IMO).
On November 22 2006 01:59 Card5hark.cF- wrote: And I kinda agree on keeping your personal feelings out of it...It just makes it lame.
On November 22 2006 03:05 Lukeeze[zR] wrote: I think the ranking was bad and the descriptions were neither relevant nore funny. But maybe it'll go better with time
On November 22 2006 03:20 pyrogenetix wrote: and your comments make it so much more disgusting.
On November 22 2006 04:04 Mynock wrote: And I also think personal remarks dominating the analysis aren't giving it due honors unfortunately.
Midas is a looser...wouldn't rated him on 4th...but I think it's just coz I dislky his style..or his name...or w/e seriously, it's very difficult to set up a rating like this, especially the places 5-10 are not easy to rate
haha good stuff nada is twice the player anytime is though. you're only putting him as number 2 because youre a protoss fanboy and protoss players like to overrate their own kind. im almost surprised reach isnt on this list. if manablue wrote it he would be
On November 22 2006 07:52 CTStalker wrote: I think you should compile the flames (posts and, if any, pms) and categorically mock them
Oh, that's the plan.
For now, however, I feel as if I have to clear up a glaring misconception regarding this feature: my personal opinions--as far as playstyle and entertainment value of a player--play a truly minimal role in how I rank the players. Obviously some bias is going to seep into the listing, because that's the nature of being, well, human, but I assure you that I am doing my best to give an objective list. I rank the players first; the snarky comments come later. I do, as I noted in the news post, examine much more than statistics. I look at what leagues those statistics came from, who was playing whom, what map was used, and my own assessment of the level of play. It's not science, by any means, but it should be pretty accurate.
That said, let's consider the case of Ra. Many people claim that he doesn't deserve to be #9, and for now, I'll concede that point. But does he belong in the top 5? Not. A. Chance. Consider: he only advanced from his MSL group because Boxer joined the army. Otherwise, he was eliminated. He's not even in the OSL (and he didn't make the ODT this season, either), and KTF is an absolute joke in the Proleague this season. So are you really quibbling over whether he should be #6 or #9, or are you just angry over me not liking your favorite player? That is bias.
I can concede that maybe some of you would rearrange the list a bit (Nada before Anytime, most notably) or add a particular player or swap one with the other. That's just the nature of something like this; differences will exist. But if you honestly see any glaring flaws, I would encourage you to do a bit more research into why you feel that way and, evidence existing, share those reasons with me.
On November 22 2006 09:00 stuthedog wrote: or some sort of starcraft column re: issues you find fascinating. but a "power rankings" where despite what you say IS mostly subjective is a farce
On November 22 2006 08:48 DJEtterStyle wrote: I can concede that maybe some of you would rearrange the list a bit (Nada before Anytime, most notably) or add a particular player or swap one with the other.
Actually, when I first glanced at the list, I was like "hahahaha that protoss loving newbie put anytime higher than nada although he lost the finals", but after reading your comments in the ranking, I have to say you're right. Anytime's performance was way more impressive, making it all the way to the finals and only narrowly losing to Nada, who did have an easier time.
I was also gonna say something about a lot of people here acting like faggots, but you already addressed the point a little more eloquently in this post.
On November 22 2006 09:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: yes he gives his own VERY HIGHLY QUALIFIED opinion. more qualified than any other staff and mostly any other forum poster, period.
Well let me say that I've been following the korean pro scene on a regular basis for nearly 3 years and I think this ranking is very biased and that even a small circle of moderators ( ex : mani, pop, the koreans doing live reports ... ) voting would have been a better idea. Just my opinion on the matter
On November 22 2006 09:46 ChApFoU wrote: Or maybe etter could write a bit about why he "objectively" think player x deserves y rank, on top of the sarcastic comments.
We all know that it's not the end all ranking, but a more true indicator than the KESPA ranking since it focuses on a shorter span, and on playing performance rather than records. I'd say many of these are accurate, and if he had to explain in detail, the reading would get boring and stale.
I prefer wisecracks over explanations myself. The explanation is found in their rankings otherwise.
The only two I think are missing atm on this list is Jaedong and possibly guys like much, daezang.
On November 22 2006 09:32 Wasabi wrote: I'm one of the many who thinks this list is biased.
1-Where is Jaedong? Ignorance, bliss? 2-Just because the writer hates Nal_rA, he puts him in the bottom? What? Hey I don't like IPX that much, I will put him in top 9!
3-Free[gm]. 4-Much[gm]. 5-Daezang.
3,4, and 5 not even getting a mention.
Did you even read all the comments? shut the fuck up and think about what the hell you write making him #9 is throwing a bone taking into consideration what he really did achieve over the last month or so
Now tell me what nal_ra DID achieve then during the past 2 months. Oh and lets just count out getting out of groupstages for obvious reasons. Convince me.
LOL how could anybody seriously say that prelims and ODT is harder than the Starleague- People have to go through them to get to Starleague LOL Oov is just struggling at the moment. as hard as ODT is- many go through them, but only a few wins it all-
Hm I get your point. It's harder to prepare for Prelims. And losses in Prelims are devastating. But still, winning it all I imagine is much harder to do. in terms of probability. The competition is just much tougher and that's obvious. Like Clon, he stormed through the Prelims but it's unlikely that he will win the Starleague you know
Daezang is very interesting as he looked dominating vs. Chojja and Mingu. We'll need to see him take on Aqua, though it's unfair to ask him to win two BO3's. But anywho Daezang also lost to free who crushed Oov- saw the prelim match and whew-free looked like the next big Toss, and then there's Tester who looked almost through at one point in his match against Yooi. However, as many have mentioned earlier, right now Jaedong is as good as anyone except maybe Savior. Heck Jaedong maybe even better than him in ZvZ (we may find out real soon). Xellos mentioned in his TV interview (Junmo's bad angle? was it?) he was baffled by his Prelim loss against Jaedong and that he's looking forward to face him in MSL. Can't wait for Friday's games!!!!!!!!
My literary critique: I like the idea of the list but I think the author should not try to add any humor as it only makes the writing more cumbersome without adding any value. Give the list and state the highlights of justification as concisely as possible. That said, I don't think this particular author is appropriate without at least adding an editor. DJEtterStyle has, from what I've read, only one voice in his writing and it's not appropriate for this task.
My response to the content: The glaring mistake I see is a lack of Goodfriend. In fact Goodfriend is mentioned only as a reference point for the worst in progaming. A review of his accomplishments and content of his games would warrant, at the very least, a "special mention" if not a place on the top 10.
I can see now that what I was hoping to save for next month is going to have to come now. A similar write-up will be present with the posting of every list from this point on, but I thought--perhaps--I could get away without posting it to start. Apparently not. So, onward to the justifications...
---
IPX - There's just no way to logically consider anyone else the hottest, most dominant player in progaming right now. He's won three of the last four MSLs, and he placed second in the one that he didn't win. Beyond that, he's into the ODT, and I can't even remember the last time he lost in the Proleague.
Anytime - This is a controversial choice, I know. But look at the players Anytime faced in getting to the OSL finals. Then watch his actual play. It's easy to look at the statistics and say, "Yo, Nada won 3-2 and had a better record in the tournament." Anytime faced harder players and displayed a greater degree of skill. If Arkanoid and Peaks weren't practically free wins TvP, I have no doubt that Anytime would have won the OSL with ease. And as an extra little nudge, Lecaf, under Anytime's stellar Proleague record, is current the #1 pro team.
Nada - He won the OSL and defeated both Reach and GoodFriend 3-0 in the weeks leading up to it. But he's just not in the same form as IPX or Anytime.
Midas - His semifinal performances have been lacking, but that doesn't change the fact that, on any given day, he can beat anyone in the world. His 2-3 losses to Anytime and Savior have been heartbreaking, and in both series, he's gone up 2-1, blown a huge game 4 lead, and just collapsed in game 5. If he learns to control his nerves, he'll be at the top of the game.
Sea - This is another controversial pick, but in terms of sheer scariness, no one out there has his combination of macro and multitasking. No one controls battles on multiple fronts while still macroing perfectly as well as Sea—no one. He needs to work on his TvZ, because it’s just not a matchup that lends itself to becoming a macro game, but once he figures that out, he’s going to be even more fearsome than he is already.
GGPlay – Argue with this pick all you want, but GGPlay has shown flat-out amazing ZvT and ZvZ as of late. There’s no shame in losing to Anytime 1-2. He’s also anchored his team in the Proleague for a very long time.
GoRush – Rush’s play in the OSL was strong enough for me to put him here. He advanced into the Ro8, losing 1-2 to Anytime in a series that could have easily gone 2-0 in the other direction.
Bisu – Bisu, while going 3-0 in his OSL group, managed to qualify for the upcoming MSL. A 1-2 loss to GoodFriend just doesn’t mean enough to condemn the fact that Bisu has the most potential of any young Protoss out there. He is without question the strongest player in his ODT group, and I expect him to make it into the OSL with ease.
Nal_Ra – This is my final controversial choice, but I’m going to ask you to cast aside your love for all things cheesy for just a moment and consider a few things: Ra would have been eliminated from his MSL group if Boxer had not had to go into the military. Ra did not make the last OSL. Ra cannot qualify for the coming OSL. KTF is in last place in the Proleague. Making it into the semifinals of the MSL by virtue of a gift and losing 1-3 to Savior is nice and all, but putting him any higher than #9 would be an affront to all the players that have qualified for multiple leagues and actually advanced by virtue of their own merit.
Jju – Jju might irritate me with his inconsistent play, but he is one of the only players to make and advance past the group stages of both Starleagues all while anchoring Khan in the Proleague. That’s enough for me to name him #10.
---
Jaedong is not on the list not because I'm unaware of him or because I don't think he's currently on fire. He's not on the list because he hasn't done anything--yet. A bunch of Proleague wins and making an MSL is nice, but it's not enough to warrant placing him among players who have performed well against the very stiffest of competition. If Jaedong makes the OSL and/or wins a few games in a Starleague, that's when I'll say, "Yes, yes, yes," but as of right now, it just feels premature. We all saw what happened with Canata. He made both Starleagues and everyone was hailing him as the second coming of Jesus himself... and then he went 0-3, losing to one member of every race. The same policy of "show me something" applies to Free[gm]. I've got my eye on him, but I need more than a feeling to put him in such elite company.
GF, Iris, July, Zergman, Daezang, and Silver are all close calls, but they just don't quite measure up to the ten players I've selected.
Before the match everyone was saying it the other way around
Tau Cross and Peaks had even records. Dead even.
Arkanoid T bias Arcadia II P bias.
So the maps didn't screw either player over :x
I'd say game 1, NaDa screwed up, not Anytime played insanely well. If NaDa goes no-turret style, he's asking to get stormed/reavered/whatever to pieces.
Game 2, both sides showed some amazing play, but NaDa no turret only-comsat? Insane.
Game 3, NaDa micro'd well. Anytime not so much. Maybe map imbalance, but NaDa's goliath micro was really quite insane.
Game 4, Anytime played better straight up.
Game 5, NaDa dominated :o it went exactly how he wanted it to go.
So... eh, I can't see how you can say Anytime played better than NaDa, and NaDa just won because of map imbalance :o
Oov is gonna hit most people like a train. Why was he not in the OSL/MSL? >_<
I dont like oov that much, but I think he is good! Maybe not as good as Savior is now, but if anyone can compete against Savior, its gotta be Oov, or NaDa right now.
Anytime, lost too, no? I kind of like Anytime ^^ Though I hate protoss
the protoss user is cerebral. the protoss has no easy matchups. the protoss user walks a lonely road, the only one that he has ever known. the protoss user turns his face into the wind and walks with purpose. the protoss user is a snail, crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor to victory, and surviving.
he does not try to bend the imbalanced ZvP matchup. that's impossible. instead, the protoss user must realize the truth: that there is no matchup. it is not the matchup that is imbalanced, only himself.
the protoss user must learn to bury the unfairness with anger. the protoss user must confront it and face the truth. the protoss user knows how to fight with 12 units, he must learn how to engage twelve hundred. the protoss user knows how to disappear, he must learn how to become truly invisible. the protoss user understands that invisibility is a matter of patience, and creativity. the protoss user always minds his surroundings.
the ordinary progamer is just a man, lost in the scramble for his own gratification. he can be defeated, destroyed. to win, the protoss user must become more than just a man. if he can convince himself of the truth--then he can become something else entirely: a legend.
i suppose not a bad list of top 10, of course everyone is going to be opinionated ( if theres such a word ) so i guess thanks for your effort in making the " power rank " system. though of course me being a protoss user, id put nal ra up one or two places :p just my view!
im sorry etter.. i dont think anytime had the harder bracket... In the group stages he lost MISERABLY to midas in disgusting fashion... He beat a really sloppy looking julyzerg... And played an abismal game against casy (which he only won because casy was cursed imo)... Then in Ro16 he beat the onfire GGplay.. HOWEVER, GGplay looked very very average in comparison to his other games around that time, and even saying that... his dominance kinda died down alot last month.. Then against Gorush, anytime did play well, but i still wasnt convinced of anything becasue gorush has had a history of losing recently... Against Midas, he SHOULD have lost the 4th set, but midas is a choke artist - basicly gifting him passage to the final where... he lost Nada however, went 3-0 in his group beating out Jy, Light and Zergman.. all fearsome gamers (maybe not zergman hehe) Nada then had to go through the ever cheesing TT- ie one mistake and it could be all over... Nada then 2-0 zergman, who isnt exactly useless... Nada then 3-0 Goodfriend who played very substandard but still was no push over Nada then beat anytime 3-2 I refuse to beleive anytime had the harder bracket.. by looking at the names yes he did, but looking at each game he didnt.. Just my opinon... i also think gorish/gpplay is too high... Gorush hasnt been convincing at all recently and there are a number of gamers that could be there in his spot... like GF who is on a p killing rampage.. and ggplay deserves to be on the list, but his dominance is over..
I want to make a comment to all the people that are getting personal with their dislike of DJs opinions. Don't.
The point of this list is to open a debate about the top players. So speak your mind, suck the dick of your favourite pro that isn't on the list, talk about hypothetical "you'll see" situations for upcoming leagues. That's why this is fun.
But don't get all emo and start crying about how the list isn't fair to blahblahblah. DJ isn't jesus and the list isn't the bible. He's just starting the debate.
And for the record, his sarcastic comments cutting down players make it interesting. If he tried not to offend you nancy boys the article would be boring as hell. I rip apart players on a weekly basis when I report on them blowing it in pro games *coughmidasjjucough* and no one gets on my case about it. In fact, people enjoy it, because it makes the reports funny and opinionated.
So get over it.
I'm lovin' this DJ. This feature is going to kick ass once you get a couple installments out there and people get used to the point of it.
I love the whole idea of the ranking, something I can look at and respect more than KeSpA. I agree with the whole list other than I think Daezang,Much, or free should take spot of Nal_ra. Gorush should be a off the list really imo and Silver should replace JJu.
And people complain about imba? We've got Z,P,T in the top three, according to you (which is similar to what I'd rank, anwyay. Not saying my opinion counts for much.)
I really like the speculation about anytime... maybe it's because I'm a toss user, but he really DID play better throughout the tourney.
In all, I really like the concept of the power rank. Keep it up!
On November 22 2006 13:41 a-game wrote: lots of functionless arrogance, you act like you've got something to prove
if it was sarcasm, then it wasn't funny
don't take quotes from two different threads dumbfuck
EDIT: haha, that was harsh, but really why would someone deliberately patch together two comments from two different threads? it seemed like you went out of your way to spotlight my incongruities.
This list is nothing more than what seems like a joke for Jetterstyle to parade around his favorite players. From what I see, this power ranking is a disgrace compared to the Kespa rankings. Some of the picks in this list is ridiculous.
Anytime above Nada = laugh. I guess having a 10+ winning streak vs zerg, 3-0 Reach in Superfight main event, going far in MSL while placing #1 in OSL in the same seasons, and winning the first ever golden mouse isn't as good as some #2 OSL toss who hasn't done anything in a year, with nothing accomplished in MSL.
Sea[shield] top 5 = disgusting. He's doesn't even belong in top 10, let alone top 5. He has done absolutely nothing that warrants him a higher spot than guys like Nal_rA, Jju, and others.
GGPlay #6 = outrageous.
GGPlay is one of the only bright spots on the Hanbit Proleague roster, providing his team with numerous victories in what would have otherwise been dismal performances
Argue with this pick all you want, but GGPlay has shown flat-out amazing ZvT and ZvZ as of late. There’s no shame in losing to Anytime 1-2. He’s also anchored his team in the Proleague for a very long time.
While guys like Silver is nowhere on the list; who, conveniently, is the MVP of Proleague. Proleague-performance-wise, Silver is miles ahead of GGPlay. Individual-league-performance-wise, he leaves GGPlay far in the dust. Oh well, I guess being MVP of Proleague and winning top 2 MSL gets less attention than a guy who has accomplished nothing in individual league and far less in proleague as of late.
Gorush #7 is another out-of-nowhere pick. #7 for getting to ro8? There are literally a ton of guys who have accomplished the same thing, plus more, in recent memories. Yet no where mentioned.
Bisu - Read above [Gorush]
And Nal_rA, gosh, where do I even start.
Nal_Ra – This is my final controversial choice, but I’m going to ask you to cast aside your love for all things cheesy for just a moment and consider a few things: Ra would have been eliminated from his MSL group if Boxer had not had to go into the military. Ra did not make the last OSL. Ra cannot qualify for the coming OSL. KTF is in last place in the Proleague. Making it into the semifinals of the MSL by virtue of a gift and losing 1-3 to Savior is nice and all, but putting him any higher than #9 would be an affront to all the players that have qualified for multiple leagues and actually advanced by virtue of their own merit.
So what if rA only qualified for 1 league? IPXzerg, your #1 player, never qualified for the last OSL, or the last last OSL, or the last last last OSL, or the last whatever number of OSLs there has been.... Anytime, your #2 player, never qualfied for the last MSL, or the last last MSL, or the last whatever number of MSLs there has been... You bring up nal_ra qualifying for one league but not another as a sign of his weakness. The fact is, out of the all the players you have up in the ranking, only NADA and MIDAS are the only players who qualified for both leagues.
You blame KTF's bad placement in Proleague on rA? ...sigh......do you just look at KTF's bad placement in Proleague and just automatically blame it on rA? I mean seriously, what is this? rA hasn't played a single game for KTF in this Proleague season since their first ever series with MBC. KTF's bad placement in Proleague has nothing to do with Nal_rA
Here are the facts: Nal_rA placed top 2 in the last MSL, while going far into OSL during same season. He made to the semifinals of the current MSL. The only player to have stopped rA from either advancing to the final or winning whole the league possibly two times in a row has been 1 name: Savior, the unbeatable zvp of all zerg. What if guys like Anytime were put in the same situation where they had to beat Savior in a bo5 in order to advance in OSL?
Not to mention Chojja, who's been #1 on the Kespa ranking for months and is still holding the #2 spot, is nowhere on the list.
Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook
I'm sorry, but you don't hold the #1 spot on Kespa for months and still retaining top 2 without winning a fuckload of games.
No offense, but this power ranking list is complete joke as I see it. The Kespa ranking miles and miles ahead more accurate. I really don't see the point of having this list for a TL member to freely rank with his own biased views. If I want to see who's hot and who's not, I look at the Kespa rankings. This power ranking is so inaccurate in comparison to the official Kespa I can't see any reason why it's needed. There are so much stuff on there that's put in solely based by bias, player favoritism, lack of sense, and etc. Players here are getting unfair recognition due to bias. If TL really wants a power ranking, put up the top 10 Kespa players on there, and its members can discuss about the top 10 official players with their comments underneath. Best way to do it.
Anytime above Nada = laugh. I guess having a 10+ winning streak vs zerg, 3-0 Reach in Superfight main event, going far in MSL while placing #1 in OSL in the same seasons, and winning the first ever golden mouse isn't as good as some #2 OSL toss who hasn't done anything in a year, with nothing accomplished in MSL.
...
While guys like Silver is nowhere on the list; who, conveniently, is the MVP of Proleague. Proleague-performance-wise, Silver is miles ahead of GGPlay. Individual-league-performance-wise, he leaves GGPlay far in the dust. Oh well, I guess being MVP of Proleague and winning top 2 MSL gets less attention than a guy who has accomplished nothing in individual league and far less in proleague as of late.
True. In fact, although I don't like to admit it, tfeign is sooooo right.
As usual.. first things first... Shut up Tfeign. Everyone beats Reach now. Chojja loses to everyone and he is on because he did have a hotstreak and he was overused in PL from a season ago.
Second... I still think... Yellow Name is better than GoRush. He is the only one carrying through for OGN right now. Sea is all hype. Bisu is just as much hype. And.... Jju's always good but I still think GF or Iris would be a better #10.
Okay. Say what you must about Anytime. Before Anytime the last Protoss in an OSL final was Ra. It was PvP and same with the OSL final before that. The last toss to win an OSL in an non-mirror matchup was Reach against Boxer. 2002. The other Protoss victories are 2000 ( grrr... and garimto ). Besides the Protoss dominance era... It comes down to Reach and Anytime. Reach really did own Boxer. But to me, never really showed results. Anytime has proven himself in two OSL's. He's proved he can play PvZ and PvT in matches that count. He out-played NaDa. No debate. Period. He has shown that he can adapt to any strategy and that he can out strategize ( is that a word? ) any player.
I don't see how anyone can argue Anytime is not one of the greatest Toss's to play the game. I believe he holds atleast the #2 spot. If it was my list, #1. Some random person's list... Top 3 ATLEAST.
Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook
I'm sorry, but you don't hold the #1 spot on Kespa for months and still retaining top 2 without winning a fuckload of games.
I agree on parts of your post but as said before this is NOT Kespa ranking !!
We don't care if Chojja had #1 Kespa spot for a while and now is second, the fact is he lost every single of his last games. Even if he did qualify for both leagues, he finished last of his OSL group and finished 3rd of his MSL group... He hasn't done anything in proleague lately either !
Chojja does not belong in a list of who is hot right now !
On November 22 2006 12:36 DJEtterStyle wrote: Jaedong is not on the list not because I'm unaware of him or because I don't think he's currently on fire. He's not on the list because he hasn't done anything--yet. A bunch of Proleague wins and making an MSL is nice, but it's not enough to warrant placing him among players who have performed well against the very stiffest of competition. If Jaedong makes the OSL and/or wins a few games in a Starleague, that's when I'll say, "Yes, yes, yes," but as of right now, it just feels premature. We all saw what happened with Canata. He made both Starleagues and everyone was hailing him as the second coming of Jesus himself... and then he went 0-3, losing to one member of every race. The same policy of "show me something" applies to Free[gm]. I've got my eye on him, but I need more than a feeling to put him in such elite company.
I agree with that (you can also add Much[gm] to the list of new players to follow). Getting into starleague is one thing (even if you had to take a big name out). Playing in it is an other. It's not the same pressure and every game you'll only be facing a big name who'll be way more prepared for it.
Placing Anytime in front of Nada is a controvercial judgement but you back it off pretty well so I agree. I really hope it won't be like last year where he also had an amasing bracket (Xellos, Oov and Boxer), he managed to win the whole thing and then just disapeared for a year. He's doing well in proleague and managed to qualify for MSL survivor so as they say : I believe !!
Sea and GGplay don't belong so high. (would lower Sea to 10th and remove GGplay to replace by GF or Silver)
[On] November 22 2006 23:39 tfeign wrote: The fact is, out of the all the players you have up in the ranking, only NADA and MIDAS are the only players who qualified for both leagues.
I agree with most of your points, mainly with Nada >>>> Anytime. But in the paragraph above you make a mistake - there is one more pro qualified for both leagues, not just Nada and Midas - Jju. I think Jju must be higher too - made it out from the groups and lost from Midas in OSL and semifinalist in MSL.
I agree with tfeign that this feature does seem like a joke (literally). Like students are supposed to watch Colbert Report/Daily Show and then have an intelligent, serious conversation about politics. It's possible, since there's some actual content, but why would you want to? Get the official opinion (KESPA) from people who realize the gravity of their decisions (seeds, salaries, honor) and have thusly devised the best system they could, no jokes attached, and start discussion from there. You could even have DJEtterStyle's response be the first so that the feature still has a staff author providing opinions, but let the discussion proceed such that people discern the KESPA rankings instead of the "Power Rank".
I think tfeign has already demonstrated that DJEtterStyle's opinions are logically inconsistent -- that while he has the right to weight certain aspects of progaming more than others, he does so on a player-to-player basis which makes it seem that his decisions are somewhat pre-determined. For example, his emphases on qualifying for only one league or ignoring proleague performance are sometimes present and sometimes not.
On November 22 2006 23:39 tfeign wrote: This list is nothing more than what seems like a joke for Jetterstyle to parade around his favorite players. From what I see, this power ranking is a disgrace compared to the Kespa rankings. Some of the picks in this list is ridiculous.
Anytime above Nada = laugh. I guess having a 10+ winning streak vs zerg, 3-0 Reach in Superfight main event, going far in MSL while placing #1 in OSL in the same seasons, and winning the first ever golden mouse isn't as good as some #2 OSL toss who hasn't done anything in a year, with nothing accomplished in MSL.
Sea[shield] top 5 = disgusting. He's doesn't even belong in top 10, let alone top 5. He has done absolutely nothing that warrants him a higher spot than guys like Nal_rA, Jju, and others.
GGPlay is one of the only bright spots on the Hanbit Proleague roster, providing his team with numerous victories in what would have otherwise been dismal performances
Argue with this pick all you want, but GGPlay has shown flat-out amazing ZvT and ZvZ as of late. There’s no shame in losing to Anytime 1-2. He’s also anchored his team in the Proleague for a very long time.
While guys like Silver is nowhere on the list; who, conveniently, is the MVP of Proleague. Proleague-performance-wise, Silver is miles ahead of GGPlay. Individual-league-performance-wise, he leaves GGPlay far in the dust. Oh well, I guess being MVP of Proleague and winning top 2 MSL gets less attention than a guy who has accomplished nothing in individual league and far less in proleague as of late.
Gorush #7 is another out-of-nowhere pick. #7 for getting to ro8? There are literally a ton of guys who have accomplished the same thing, plus more, in recent memories. Yet no where mentioned.
Nal_Ra – This is my final controversial choice, but I’m going to ask you to cast aside your love for all things cheesy for just a moment and consider a few things: Ra would have been eliminated from his MSL group if Boxer had not had to go into the military. Ra did not make the last OSL. Ra cannot qualify for the coming OSL. KTF is in last place in the Proleague. Making it into the semifinals of the MSL by virtue of a gift and losing 1-3 to Savior is nice and all, but putting him any higher than #9 would be an affront to all the players that have qualified for multiple leagues and actually advanced by virtue of their own merit.
So what if rA only qualified for 1 league? IPXzerg, your #1 player, never qualified for the last OSL, or the last last OSL, or the last last last OSL, or the last whatever number of OSLs there has been.... Anytime, your #2 player, never qualfied for the last MSL, or the last last MSL, or the last whatever number of MSLs there has been... You bring up nal_ra qualifying for one league but not another as a sign of his weakness. The fact is, out of the all the players you have up in the ranking, only NADA and MIDAS are the only players who qualified for both leagues.
You blame KTF's bad placement in Proleague on rA? ...sigh......do you just look at KTF's bad placement in Proleague and just automatically blame it on rA? I mean seriously, what is this? rA hasn't played a single game for KTF in this Proleague season since their first ever series with MBC. KTF's bad placement in Proleague has nothing to do with Nal_rA
Here are the facts: Nal_rA placed top 2 in the last MSL, while going far into OSL during same season. He made to the semifinals of the current MSL. The only player to have stopped rA from either advancing to the final or winning whole the league possibly two times in a row has been 1 name: Savior, the unbeatable zvp of all zerg. What if guys like Anytime were put in the same situation where they had to beat Savior in a bo5 in order to advance in OSL?
Not to mention Chojja, who's been #1 on the Kespa ranking for months and is still holding the #2 spot, is nowhere on the list.
Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook
I'm sorry, but you don't hold the #1 spot on Kespa for months and still retaining top 2 without winning a fuckload of games.
No offense, but this power ranking list is complete joke as I see it. The Kespa ranking miles and miles ahead more accurate. I really don't see the point of having this list for a TL member to freely rank with his own biased views. If I want to see who's hot and who's not, I look at the Kespa rankings. This power ranking is so inaccurate in comparison to the official Kespa I can't see any reason why it's needed. There are so much stuff on there that's put in solely based by bias, player favoritism, lack of sense, and etc. Players here are getting unfair recognition due to bias. If TL really wants a power ranking, put up the top 10 Kespa players on there, and its members can discuss about the top 10 official players with their comments underneath. Best way to do it.
On November 22 2006 23:39 tfeign wrote: This list is nothing more than what seems like a joke for Jetterstyle to parade around his favorite players. From what I see, this power ranking is a disgrace compared to the Kespa rankings. Some of the picks in this list is ridiculous.
Anytime above Nada = laugh. I guess having a 10+ winning streak vs zerg, 3-0 Reach in Superfight main event, going far in MSL while placing #1 in OSL in the same seasons, and winning the first ever golden mouse isn't as good as some #2 OSL toss who hasn't done anything in a year, with nothing accomplished in MSL.
Sea[shield] top 5 = disgusting. He's doesn't even belong in top 10, let alone top 5. He has done absolutely nothing that warrants him a higher spot than guys like Nal_rA, Jju, and others.
GGPlay #6 = outrageous.
GGPlay is one of the only bright spots on the Hanbit Proleague roster, providing his team with numerous victories in what would have otherwise been dismal performances
Argue with this pick all you want, but GGPlay has shown flat-out amazing ZvT and ZvZ as of late. There’s no shame in losing to Anytime 1-2. He’s also anchored his team in the Proleague for a very long time.
While guys like Silver is nowhere on the list; who, conveniently, is the MVP of Proleague. Proleague-performance-wise, Silver is miles ahead of GGPlay. Individual-league-performance-wise, he leaves GGPlay far in the dust. Oh well, I guess being MVP of Proleague and winning top 2 MSL gets less attention than a guy who has accomplished nothing in individual league and far less in proleague as of late.
Gorush #7 is another out-of-nowhere pick. #7 for getting to ro8? There are literally a ton of guys who have accomplished the same thing, plus more, in recent memories. Yet no where mentioned.
Bisu - Read above [Gorush]
And Nal_rA, gosh, where do I even start.
Nal_Ra – This is my final controversial choice, but I’m going to ask you to cast aside your love for all things cheesy for just a moment and consider a few things: Ra would have been eliminated from his MSL group if Boxer had not had to go into the military. Ra did not make the last OSL. Ra cannot qualify for the coming OSL. KTF is in last place in the Proleague. Making it into the semifinals of the MSL by virtue of a gift and losing 1-3 to Savior is nice and all, but putting him any higher than #9 would be an affront to all the players that have qualified for multiple leagues and actually advanced by virtue of their own merit.
So what if rA only qualified for 1 league? IPXzerg, your #1 player, never qualified for the last OSL, or the last last OSL, or the last last last OSL, or the last whatever number of OSLs there has been.... Anytime, your #2 player, never qualfied for the last MSL, or the last last MSL, or the last whatever number of MSLs there has been... You bring up nal_ra qualifying for one league but not another as a sign of his weakness. The fact is, out of the all the players you have up in the ranking, only NADA and MIDAS are the only players who qualified for both leagues.
You blame KTF's bad placement in Proleague on rA? ...sigh......do you just look at KTF's bad placement in Proleague and just automatically blame it on rA? I mean seriously, what is this? rA hasn't played a single game for KTF in this Proleague season since their first ever series with MBC. KTF's bad placement in Proleague has nothing to do with Nal_rA
Here are the facts: Nal_rA placed top 2 in the last MSL, while going far into OSL during same season. He made to the semifinals of the current MSL. The only player to have stopped rA from either advancing to the final or winning whole the league possibly two times in a row has been 1 name: Savior, the unbeatable zvp of all zerg. What if guys like Anytime were put in the same situation where they had to beat Savior in a bo5 in order to advance in OSL?
Not to mention Chojja, who's been #1 on the Kespa ranking for months and is still holding the #2 spot, is nowhere on the list.
Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook
I'm sorry, but you don't hold the #1 spot on Kespa for months and still retaining top 2 without winning a fuckload of games.
No offense, but this power ranking list is complete joke as I see it. The Kespa ranking miles and miles ahead more accurate. I really don't see the point of having this list for a TL member to freely rank with his own biased views. If I want to see who's hot and who's not, I look at the Kespa rankings. This power ranking is so inaccurate in comparison to the official Kespa I can't see any reason why it's needed. There are so much stuff on there that's put in solely based by bias, player favoritism, lack of sense, and etc. Players here are getting unfair recognition due to bias. If TL really wants a power ranking, put up the top 10 Kespa players on there, and its members can discuss about the top 10 official players with their comments underneath. Best way to do it.
lol djetter got owned
No, he didn't. Everyone around here knows about tfeign's hissy fits if anyone disagrees with him, let alone not put ChoJJa on a power rank list.
To Tfeign, Read: This is a power rankings list, who is hot right now, and who isn't. ChoJJa isn't hot, he hasn't performed well AT ALL since the last OSL.
On November 22 2006 23:39 tfeign wrote: This list is nothing more than what seems like a joke for Jetterstyle to parade around his favorite players. From what I see, this power ranking is a disgrace compared to the Kespa rankings. Some of the picks in this list is ridiculous.
Anytime above Nada = laugh. I guess having a 10+ winning streak vs zerg, 3-0 Reach in Superfight main event, going far in MSL while placing #1 in OSL in the same seasons, and winning the first ever golden mouse isn't as good as some #2 OSL toss who hasn't done anything in a year, with nothing accomplished in MSL.
Sea[shield] top 5 = disgusting. He's doesn't even belong in top 10, let alone top 5. He has done absolutely nothing that warrants him a higher spot than guys like Nal_rA, Jju, and others.
GGPlay #6 = outrageous.
GGPlay is one of the only bright spots on the Hanbit Proleague roster, providing his team with numerous victories in what would have otherwise been dismal performances
Argue with this pick all you want, but GGPlay has shown flat-out amazing ZvT and ZvZ as of late. There’s no shame in losing to Anytime 1-2. He’s also anchored his team in the Proleague for a very long time.
While guys like Silver is nowhere on the list; who, conveniently, is the MVP of Proleague. Proleague-performance-wise, Silver is miles ahead of GGPlay. Individual-league-performance-wise, he leaves GGPlay far in the dust. Oh well, I guess being MVP of Proleague and winning top 2 MSL gets less attention than a guy who has accomplished nothing in individual league and far less in proleague as of late.
Gorush #7 is another out-of-nowhere pick. #7 for getting to ro8? There are literally a ton of guys who have accomplished the same thing, plus more, in recent memories. Yet no where mentioned.
Bisu - Read above [Gorush]
And Nal_rA, gosh, where do I even start.
Nal_Ra – This is my final controversial choice, but I’m going to ask you to cast aside your love for all things cheesy for just a moment and consider a few things: Ra would have been eliminated from his MSL group if Boxer had not had to go into the military. Ra did not make the last OSL. Ra cannot qualify for the coming OSL. KTF is in last place in the Proleague. Making it into the semifinals of the MSL by virtue of a gift and losing 1-3 to Savior is nice and all, but putting him any higher than #9 would be an affront to all the players that have qualified for multiple leagues and actually advanced by virtue of their own merit.
So what if rA only qualified for 1 league? IPXzerg, your #1 player, never qualified for the last OSL, or the last last OSL, or the last last last OSL, or the last whatever number of OSLs there has been.... Anytime, your #2 player, never qualfied for the last MSL, or the last last MSL, or the last whatever number of MSLs there has been... You bring up nal_ra qualifying for one league but not another as a sign of his weakness. The fact is, out of the all the players you have up in the ranking, only NADA and MIDAS are the only players who qualified for both leagues.
You blame KTF's bad placement in Proleague on rA? ...sigh......do you just look at KTF's bad placement in Proleague and just automatically blame it on rA? I mean seriously, what is this? rA hasn't played a single game for KTF in this Proleague season since their first ever series with MBC. KTF's bad placement in Proleague has nothing to do with Nal_rA
Here are the facts: Nal_rA placed top 2 in the last MSL, while going far into OSL during same season. He made to the semifinals of the current MSL. The only player to have stopped rA from either advancing to the final or winning whole the league possibly two times in a row has been 1 name: Savior, the unbeatable zvp of all zerg. What if guys like Anytime were put in the same situation where they had to beat Savior in a bo5 in order to advance in OSL?
Not to mention Chojja, who's been #1 on the Kespa ranking for months and is still holding the #2 spot, is nowhere on the list.
Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook
I'm sorry, but you don't hold the #1 spot on Kespa for months and still retaining top 2 without winning a fuckload of games.
No offense, but this power ranking list is complete joke as I see it. The Kespa ranking miles and miles ahead more accurate. I really don't see the point of having this list for a TL member to freely rank with his own biased views. If I want to see who's hot and who's not, I look at the Kespa rankings. This power ranking is so inaccurate in comparison to the official Kespa I can't see any reason why it's needed. There are so much stuff on there that's put in solely based by bias, player favoritism, lack of sense, and etc. Players here are getting unfair recognition due to bias. If TL really wants a power ranking, put up the top 10 Kespa players on there, and its members can discuss about the top 10 official players with their comments underneath. Best way to do it.
lol djetter got owned
No he didn't Tfeign doesn't understand the way this feature works.
As already said before Chojja should not be in this Power Rank, no arguing on that !
Ok... Nal_Ra has qualified for both leagues in the past but not right now... He's only in MSL and fucked up the ODT prelims meaning he wont be in next OSL. Anytime has never qualified for MSL -> true but he is now in Survival League. Savior has never qualified for OSL -> true but he is now in ODT Bisu is already qualified for MSL and is in ODT
rofl im not reading what geeks wrote, but after reading your list and throwing up in the bathroom i realize your just joking around with this power ranking.
On November 23 2006 15:36 Pika Chu wrote: tfeign said it all.. gj man!
Idiots unite!
hahaha
On November 23 2006 16:45 ilove wrote: rofl im not reading what geeks wrote, but after reading your list and throwing up in the bathroom i realize your just joking around with this power ranking.
i hope you get banned for posting on a bw forum and calling the rest of us "geeks," when you say that you felt like throwing up over someone's opinion regarding this game for "geeks." dumbass.
seeing as this list made you "throw up", it seems that you follow progaming to a certain degree. geek.
wow this is pretty entertaining..... I find this to be a worthwhile addition to the site. Gives our bored asses something else to do while online. Thanks for the input Etter.... just hope that you continue to try and... adopt a broad/thoughtful perspective concerning the play of all these progamers [before you let yourself dump certain players down the drain]
On November 22 2006 23:39 tfeign wrote: This list is nothing more than what seems like a joke for Jetterstyle to parade around his favorite players. From what I see, this power ranking is a disgrace compared to the Kespa rankings. Some of the picks in this list is ridiculous.
Anytime above Nada = laugh. I guess having a 10+ winning streak vs zerg, 3-0 Reach in Superfight main event, going far in MSL while placing #1 in OSL in the same seasons, and winning the first ever golden mouse isn't as good as some #2 OSL toss who hasn't done anything in a year, with nothing accomplished in MSL.
Sea[shield] top 5 = disgusting. He's doesn't even belong in top 10, let alone top 5. He has done absolutely nothing that warrants him a higher spot than guys like Nal_rA, Jju, and others.
GGPlay is one of the only bright spots on the Hanbit Proleague roster, providing his team with numerous victories in what would have otherwise been dismal performances
Argue with this pick all you want, but GGPlay has shown flat-out amazing ZvT and ZvZ as of late. There’s no shame in losing to Anytime 1-2. He’s also anchored his team in the Proleague for a very long time.
While guys like Silver is nowhere on the list; who, conveniently, is the MVP of Proleague. Proleague-performance-wise, Silver is miles ahead of GGPlay. Individual-league-performance-wise, he leaves GGPlay far in the dust. Oh well, I guess being MVP of Proleague and winning top 2 MSL gets less attention than a guy who has accomplished nothing in individual league and far less in proleague as of late.
Gorush #7 is another out-of-nowhere pick. #7 for getting to ro8? There are literally a ton of guys who have accomplished the same thing, plus more, in recent memories. Yet no where mentioned.
Nal_Ra – This is my final controversial choice, but I’m going to ask you to cast aside your love for all things cheesy for just a moment and consider a few things: Ra would have been eliminated from his MSL group if Boxer had not had to go into the military. Ra did not make the last OSL. Ra cannot qualify for the coming OSL. KTF is in last place in the Proleague. Making it into the semifinals of the MSL by virtue of a gift and losing 1-3 to Savior is nice and all, but putting him any higher than #9 would be an affront to all the players that have qualified for multiple leagues and actually advanced by virtue of their own merit.
So what if rA only qualified for 1 league? IPXzerg, your #1 player, never qualified for the last OSL, or the last last OSL, or the last last last OSL, or the last whatever number of OSLs there has been.... Anytime, your #2 player, never qualfied for the last MSL, or the last last MSL, or the last whatever number of MSLs there has been... You bring up nal_ra qualifying for one league but not another as a sign of his weakness. The fact is, out of the all the players you have up in the ranking, only NADA and MIDAS are the only players who qualified for both leagues.
You blame KTF's bad placement in Proleague on rA? ...sigh......do you just look at KTF's bad placement in Proleague and just automatically blame it on rA? I mean seriously, what is this? rA hasn't played a single game for KTF in this Proleague season since their first ever series with MBC. KTF's bad placement in Proleague has nothing to do with Nal_rA
Here are the facts: Nal_rA placed top 2 in the last MSL, while going far into OSL during same season. He made to the semifinals of the current MSL. The only player to have stopped rA from either advancing to the final or winning whole the league possibly two times in a row has been 1 name: Savior, the unbeatable zvp of all zerg. What if guys like Anytime were put in the same situation where they had to beat Savior in a bo5 in order to advance in OSL?
Not to mention Chojja, who's been #1 on the Kespa ranking for months and is still holding the #2 spot, is nowhere on the list.
Chojja - You are the most overrated progamer ever. Give me a ring when you a) start winning and b) crack the five-foot barrier. And don't cheat and use a phonebook
I'm sorry, but you don't hold the #1 spot on Kespa for months and still retaining top 2 without winning a fuckload of games.
No offense, but this power ranking list is complete joke as I see it. The Kespa ranking miles and miles ahead more accurate. I really don't see the point of having this list for a TL member to freely rank with his own biased views. If I want to see who's hot and who's not, I look at the Kespa rankings. This power ranking is so inaccurate in comparison to the official Kespa I can't see any reason why it's needed. There are so much stuff on there that's put in solely based by bias, player favoritism, lack of sense, and etc. Players here are getting unfair recognition due to bias. If TL really wants a power ranking, put up the top 10 Kespa players on there, and its members can discuss about the top 10 official players with their comments underneath. Best way to do it.
I agree with a lot of this except the fact that chojja shouldn't be in the top 10 as of the last 2 weeks. Nada should be over anyime just for the fact that he beat him in the finals no matter how hard the road was there he won it in the end.Gorush should be removed basically. Silver should replace JJu. Bisu and ra should move up a spot. Daezang/free/or much should take GGplay's spot but just moved to like 8 or 9.
He only put Anytime over Nada to stir up controversy...and it worked...beautifully. DJ cleverness>Lengthy rhetorical postings by people who want his job. gg.
On November 24 2006 07:03 homeless_guy wrote: He only put Anytime over Nada to stir up controversy...and it worked...beautifully. DJ cleverness>Lengthy rhetorical postings by people who want his job. gg.
If this is true then I think the staff should seriously reconsider the direction of this feature because I don't think most readers want this kind of content.
I don't know, I agree with the vast majority of tfeign's comments. However, I do agree that this is etter's list and has a right to do the rankings as he sees fit.
I can't argue with someone who is making THEIR rankings and say "no, you're wrong." when it is their opinion.
My list might look a little different, but it is not featured on this site.
Stolen from the trailer: PROTOSS BEGINS, I love it.
On November 22 2006 13:00 Hot_Bid wrote: let me tell you a story about the protoss user.
the protoss user is cerebral. the protoss has no easy matchups. the protoss user walks a lonely road, the only one that he has ever known. the protoss user turns his face into the wind and walks with purpose. the protoss user is a snail, crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor to victory, and surviving.
he does not try to bend the imbalanced ZvP matchup. that's impossible. instead, the protoss user must realize the truth: that there is no matchup. it is not the matchup that is imbalanced, only himself.
the protoss user must learn to bury the unfairness with anger. the protoss user must confront it and face the truth. the protoss user knows how to fight with 12 units, he must learn how to engage twelve hundred. the protoss user knows how to disappear, he must learn how to become truly invisible. the protoss user understands that invisibility is a matter of patience, and creativity. the protoss user always minds his surroundings.
the ordinary progamer is just a man, lost in the scramble for his own gratification. he can be defeated, destroyed. to win, the protoss user must become more than just a man. if he can convince himself of the truth--then he can become something else entirely: a legend.
On November 24 2006 10:09 jeddus wrote: I don't know, I agree with the vast majority of tfeign's comments. However, I do agree that this is etter's list and has a right to do the rankings as he sees fit.
I can't argue with someone who is making THEIR rankings and say "no, you're wrong." when it is their opinion.
My list might look a little different, but it is not featured on this site.
shit i totally forgot about silver's existence and his hawt play as of late.
On November 22 2006 14:53 Plexa wrote: im sorry etter.. i dont think anytime had the harder bracket... In the group stages he lost MISERABLY to midas in disgusting fashion... He beat a really sloppy looking julyzerg... And played an abismal game against casy (which he only won because casy was cursed imo)... Then in Ro16 he beat the onfire GGplay.. HOWEVER, GGplay looked very very average in comparison to his other games around that time, and even saying that... his dominance kinda died down alot last month.. Then against Gorush, anytime did play well, but i still wasnt convinced of anything becasue gorush has had a history of losing recently... Against Midas, he SHOULD have lost the 4th set, but midas is a choke artist - basicly gifting him passage to the final where... he lost Nada however, went 3-0 in his group beating out Jy, Light and Zergman.. all fearsome gamers (maybe not zergman hehe) Nada then had to go through the ever cheesing TT- ie one mistake and it could be all over... Nada then 2-0 zergman, who isnt exactly useless... Nada then 3-0 Goodfriend who played very substandard but still was no push over Nada then beat anytime 3-2 I refuse to beleive anytime had the harder bracket.. by looking at the names yes he did, but looking at each game he didnt.. Just my opinon... i also think gorish/gpplay is too high... Gorush hasnt been convincing at all recently and there are a number of gamers that could be there in his spot... like GF who is on a p killing rampage.. and ggplay deserves to be on the list, but his dominance is over..
The reason you rate GoRush and GGPlay on the Top 10 is so you can say "Anytime beat two top 10 players on his way to the finals."
Its the sports politician tactic to justify your man getting higher...I mean, you have people getting ranked lower for the same reasons some people are being ranked higher.
But as always, it is just opinion.
I would rank NaDa higher than Anytime because NaDa beat him in the biggest game of that league, while coming off of the SuperFight II also...not to mention he just had schooled GoodFriend in his best matchup, and in the end he had something no other gamer had: The Golden Mouse, therefore making NaDa hotter "at this moment" and stealing Anytime's steam.
I like the idea of Anytime being "lower ranked" just because it adds to his "cool factor" of being the underdog who would be the long shot at winning the finals, and he overcame many obstacles to get there. Hell, even losing the finals 3-2 shows how game he is. You can be ranked lower and still be a cooler gamer than one he simply is higher ranked.
NaDa plowed through the StarLeague, on the stats connected to these rankings he has a better win percentage, but in the author's eyes Anytime is cooler and is higher up due to his cool factor and his ability to overcome the obstacles.
This is a good feature and is very thought provoking.
I still like Hot_Bid's Batman begins, Matrix, whatever spoof the best though.
Stop saying Silver deserves a place on the list. He has 1 good MU, and his wins are uninspiring, microless allins. His ZvZ is half decent and his ZvT sucks. He's like the new Mumyung to be quite honest. Silver got 2nd this MSL, Mumyung got 4th in Cyon MSL a year ago that Chojja won. Still none of these players deserves a spot in a top 10 list of a sane guy able to take other things than cold results into his consideration. HOW they win, what MU they win, what MAP they win on are things that matter which has been made clear by some decent posters. Please try to realize that.
Silver is very good player.I don`t think he sux in zvt. Yea he lost few times zvt and it`s not his best mu but he isn`t bad. I have watched many zvt of him and he is very nice player.And when I start thinking more I come to the decision that he deserves spot in top 6-10... Yes he make it into the final winning only zvp with his unique ling+hydras style...but don`t you think this is strange? he keep winning all protoss with the same strategy ? and he did surprise all with his 2th place , noone expected this.
On November 25 2006 02:22 puLs.ReADy wrote: Silver is very good player.I don`t think he sux in zvt. Yea he lost few times zvt and it`s not his best mu but he isn`t bad. I have watched many zvt of him and he is very nice player.And when I start thinking more I come to the decision that he deserves spot in top 6-10... Yes he make it into the final winning only zvp with his unique ling+hydras style...but don`t you think this is strange? he keep winning all protoss with the same strategy ? and he did surprise all with his 2th place , noone expected this.
hmmm are you trying to say someone is match fixing?
On November 25 2006 02:22 puLs.ReADy wrote: Silver is very good player.I don`t think he sux in zvt. Yea he lost few times zvt and it`s not his best mu but he isn`t bad. I have watched many zvt of him and he is very nice player.And when I start thinking more I come to the decision that he deserves spot in top 6-10... Yes he make it into the final winning only zvp with his unique ling+hydras style...but don`t you think this is strange? he keep winning all protoss with the same strategy ? and he did surprise all with his 2th place , noone expected this.
hmmm are you trying to say someone is match fixing?
He means: It is strange that if he isn't a very good player that he is beating all the protoss players with the same strategy...
Is it me or is this just a horribly concieved idea for a front page "feature"
One persons entirely arbitrary list of who he thinks are the best players. I just don't understand the point but to incite arguments over who deserves to be there and who doesn't. When the reality is doesn't matter at all because it's one persons random list of who he thinks is good and who isn't. At the end of the day why the fuck should anyone care who is on this particular list? It doesn't represent a majority opinion nor is the list created in an unbiased mathematical format like KeSPA
If there's some desire for a "tl top 10" why not make it some sort of voting where peoples opinions have a say
or if etter wants some front page contribution for the site why not make a non numbered list of "players to watch" and reasons why. Ranking players is just such a bad idea when you have no real qualifications or system to do it
and the fact that you have to keep backtracking and explaining this list makes me think this was indeed poorly thought out.
well if its meant solely to direct all the retards from the kespa threads going LOL BOXER SHOULD BE #1 CAUS THATS WHERE HE IS IN MY HEART then mission accomplished
On November 26 2006 08:55 racebannon wrote: Is it me or is this just a horribly concieved idea for a front page "feature"
One persons entirely arbitrary list of who he thinks are the best players. I just don't understand the point but to incite arguments over who deserves to be there and who doesn't. When the reality is doesn't matter at all because it's one persons random list of who he thinks is good and who isn't. At the end of the day why the fuck should anyone care who is on this particular list? It doesn't represent a majority opinion nor is the list created in an unbiased mathematical format like KeSPA
If there's some desire for a "tl top 10" why not make it some sort of voting where peoples opinions have a say
or if etter wants some front page contribution for the site why not make a non numbered list of "players to watch" and reasons why. Ranking players is just such a bad idea when you have no real qualifications or system to do it
and the fact that you have to keep backtracking and explaining this list makes me think this was indeed poorly thought out.
his qualifications are that he closely follows progaming and has an opinion, one that is likely more informed than most people here. i'd rather hear that opinion and possibly disagree than read some stupid 80% boxer poll where clueless users vote for whoever they like. a tl top 10 would be a "horribly conceived" idea that is useless.
we need more coverage and opinionated coverage. yes his choices are controversial and i disagree with some of them. but that's what makes it a column, and thats what makes him an analyst. if you follow any sport, all media is biased, but you still read anyway.
i don't see him backtracking at all, i don't know where you got that. yes he wrote the longer explanations later on, but those will be included with the main post for the second time he writes the rankings.
one of the main things we're missing is the korean coverage where they have tons of analysts and informed experts writing opinionated columns about progamers and the scene.
a "TL Top 10" would be horrible and stupid, with no actual content. why not just make a poll "which is your favorite progamer?" and look at the results, it'd effectively be the same. just look at some of the responses, "where is chojja?" or "where is iloveoov?"
you're allowed to disagree, just because you do doesn't mean it's a "horribly conceived" feature.
Who says the top 10 has to be based on all pro gamers ever, why not make it based on the current KESPA rankings. There's a million ways to stimulate conversation of who is the best that isn't a single persons opinion or a retarded progamer popularity contest. Tie it into liquibet somehow, how many points players make for people etc.
But so long as I'm allowed to disagree while not maintaining my dissenting opinion of it being poorly/not thought out then we're all happy right
he downloads vods so he joins the ranks of the korean analysts and informed experts?
How many of these awesome columns from korean writers do you read? How many of them have the author coming back and trying to explain what he wrote and why? If this can't stand on its own without him constantly coming back and trying to justify what he is writing then it's poorly conceived and/or executed. I mean it's a list of fucking names and "DON'T GO THERE SISTAH" for reasons for those names being there. it's a garbage/flake contribution that's just going to incite petty bickering amongst the fanboys and bandwagoners
If the reason behind it is for etter to have some worthwhile contribution to the website then some sort of celebrity teen mag style whos hot whos not!! list would be far more interesting if he actually had things to say about the players, there's lots that could be done that isn't a simple subjective list of names that will only be taken over anyone elses list because it's got its own cute little table on the main page.
just fyi I am an informed expert on being awesome can I have a weekly column to write about it.
On November 22 2006 13:00 Hot_Bid wrote: let me tell you a story about the protoss user.
the protoss user is cerebral. the protoss has no easy matchups. the protoss user walks a lonely road, the only one that he has ever known. the protoss user turns his face into the wind and walks with purpose. the protoss user is a snail, crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor to victory, and surviving.
he does not try to bend the imbalanced ZvP matchup. that's impossible. instead, the protoss user must realize the truth: that there is no matchup. it is not the matchup that is imbalanced, only himself.
the protoss user must learn to bury the unfairness with anger. the protoss user must confront it and face the truth. the protoss user knows how to fight with 12 units, he must learn how to engage twelve hundred. the protoss user knows how to disappear, he must learn how to become truly invisible. the protoss user understands that invisibility is a matter of patience, and creativity. the protoss user always minds his surroundings.
the ordinary progamer is just a man, lost in the scramble for his own gratification. he can be defeated, destroyed. to win, the protoss user must become more than just a man. if he can convince himself of the truth--then he can become something else entirely: a legend.
Is that a mix of Green Day, The Matrix, and Batman Begins?
On November 26 2006 13:17 well_made wrote: who the hell made this rankings here's a new one 1. nada 2.savior 3. anytime 4. iloveoov 5. midas 6. goodfriend 7.gorush 8 nalra 9. xellos 10. july
Yep, mindless fanboi. The highlighted names have not performed well in the past few months. They're good and were incredible in their primes but as of late they have not been performing well.
Edit: Except GoodFriend who got relatively far in the OSL, but undeservingly according to his play in the last OSL.
Xellos also got pretty far in MSL, but I agree he shouldn't be in top 10
On November 26 2006 14:54 racebannon wrote: Who says the top 10 has to be based on all pro gamers ever, why not make it based on the current KESPA rankings. There's a million ways to stimulate conversation of who is the best that isn't a single persons opinion or a retarded progamer popularity contest. Tie it into liquibet somehow, how many points players make for people etc.
But so long as I'm allowed to disagree while not maintaining my dissenting opinion of it being poorly/not thought out then we're all happy right
he downloads vods so he joins the ranks of the korean analysts and informed experts?
How many of these awesome columns from korean writers do you read? How many of them have the author coming back and trying to explain what he wrote and why? If this can't stand on its own without him constantly coming back and trying to justify what he is writing then it's poorly conceived and/or executed. I mean it's a list of fucking names and "DON'T GO THERE SISTAH" for reasons for those names being there. it's a garbage/flake contribution that's just going to incite petty bickering amongst the fanboys and bandwagoners
If the reason behind it is for etter to have some worthwhile contribution to the website then some sort of celebrity teen mag style whos hot whos not!! list would be far more interesting if he actually had things to say about the players, there's lots that could be done that isn't a simple subjective list of names that will only be taken over anyone elses list because it's got its own cute little table on the main page.
just fyi I am an informed expert on being awesome can I have a weekly column to write about it.
And that's the racebannon POWER WORD
Follow sports much? There is an endless supply of column writers every day, writing about their opinions on their respective sports. They are given the exposure, because they are considered to be knowledgable in their fields. Etter is exactly the same. His job is to give his opinion on who is playing well right now, and who isn't. Of course, anybvody can do the same thing on this forum. Why was he given a "cute table" and front page exposure? Because he knows more than you, or you, or almost anybody else.
I can go write about hockey, but people go and read what McKenzie writes because he is considered an authority on the subject. Anybody else can give their list about who their top 10 is, but I will read Etter's, because he knows what he is talking about.
The reason he has had to go back and explain it, it because this concept was mind-numbingly confusing for numerous people here, who consider themselves to be progaming guru's. Well, they aren't. Why do you think DJ was chosen? It wasn't by accident.
However, that isn't to say this is a perfect process. This was actually an old old feature designed for mensrea to write up his list. Had mensrea written it, nobody would have questioned it at all, because he was considered to be very in touch with the scene. An authority. Our muistake was not easing Etter into the role and establishing him as an authority before giving the column to him.
That being said, anyone who is actually following the game seriously, and reads the tournament section regularily, will know that DJ writes some of the most insightful and accurate posts of anyone. Thus, he got the job.
Well why wasn't silver included? He bashed nal_ra and made 2nd msl. Performed much better than jju or nal_ra. I mean, i can understand that you may believe his winnings were a fluke, he played nearly all zvps on his way up, but if your including players based on their recent results, why not him?
But I take it I'm probably the only guy here who actually likes silver lolol
- rA at #9, rA might have almost failed to qualify for the second round, but he played very nice games after that, 2-0'ing fake Yellow and Xellos in convincing fashion. - GoRush at #7 seems pretty random, it's not like GoRush's achieved more than many other lately, he got into the quarters of OSL, wasn't in MSL, and barely plays in Proleague. - Sea[Shield] at #5, but Etter's always been in love with Sea, so I guess that one's understandable. ;p
Overall I think you weigh OSL too much, and Proleague too little, all the progamers say that most of their practicing goes into Proleague, I believe it should be as important as the other two leagues for you.
daezang will be up there soon I bet. His game in MSL was outstanding until silver and savior tore him apart. His other games were amazing too outside MSL.
On November 22 2006 09:52 Jathin wrote: A reflection on the average intelligence of TL.netters:
Which terran can stop the saviOr juggarnaut? NaDa (261) 50% iloveoov (112) 21% Casy (53) 10% GF (haha) (44) 8% Xellos (28) 5% Midas (23) 4%
savior's record vs oov is disgusting isn't it? like 8-1 or something rediculous? I don't understand what you're saying here
hmm and for the record yeah the list maybe biased but DJetter knows what he's talking about good feature.
edit: but he is a smartass
I think it was that many people voted oov when in fact there were tons of threads where savior was 7-0 vs oov. also it is pretty frightening to see how midas and xellos were at the bottom when midas was 2-3 savior and xellos is in savior's team, thus knowing his game a little better. Of course I voted casy
GoRush dropped out because he hasn't done anything other than play in OSL (he would be 11th though), GGPlay is in front of Sea because they both did the same in OSL, but GGPlay is absolutely amazing in Proleague and additionally, he beat Sea in the OSL. Nal_rA before Sea was a tough decision, him on #7 and Sea on #6 would be fine for me as well. Jju moved up two places because he's performed better in Proleague than Bisu, plus he was in the MSL semis, which I would weigh around the same as Bisu's quarter finals in the OSL. Jaedong is between them because he's been tearing up this Proleague season.
If this doesn't make sense, it's because it's 3:52 am here. T_T
As a footnote to my last post, and my final words on this, remember, nothing is perfect the first time. This is something that can evolve, and everyone's opinions influence that. I find too many people are just willing to dismiss something because they don't like the first incarnation of it.
On November 26 2006 13:17 well_made wrote: who the hell made this rankings here's a new one 1. nada 2.savior 3. anytime 4. iloveoov 5. midas 6. goodfriend 7.gorush 8 nalra 9. xellos 10. july
Yep, mindless fanboi. The highlighted names have not performed well in the past few months. They're good and were incredible in their primes but as of late they have not been performing well.
Edit: Except GoodFriend who got relatively far in the OSL, but undeservingly according to his play in the last OSL.
iloveoov have done an incredible job at proleagues and that goes the same for xellos. july's force is just too good to be underestimated. and you should argue about jju not july. july at least won second place in wcg. what have jju done
Oh so you're hoping to recreate the awesome bandwagons in which people cannot express their hate for mumyung enough simply because mensrea says "fuck this guy"
I thought the forum had a good thing going now that people can appreciate gamers despite them not being on the holy list of current bandwagon material. I mean if you take away all the pedophiles and retards anyway
So I'm tremendously sorry your new feature sucks in its current state but I can really only shit on things in their present and past forms, I can only speculate as to how much they will require shitting upon in the future, so here's to hoping it inspires the crusade against random people who play a video game for a living like the last time
Do you guys think its breaking news to the admins that you disagree with this list instead of just accepting it as truth?
Look at any Kespa thread, its riddled with ridicule. And its easy to see why. While this list isnt perfect, its better than kespas IMO. Thats because Kespas uses JUST ancient history (some of the players look severly out of place) and doesnt factor in any sort of potential. This lists uses more recent history and the authors opinion on the players potential.
While yours or anyones opinion of a players of potential could backfire, what do you think progaming scouts use?
Yet still, IMO i don't think this is feature worthy. However i think it's timely because i don't follow the leagues closely at all anymore. Only when its the quarters, semis, (Proleague, wtf is that) i play catch-up. So i think it would be nice to read this list when there isn't finals happening.
Jesus I hope this avalanche of criticisms hasn't made etter any less willing to follow up on this.
Do you guys realize how great a feature this is? I love the vision of the TL admins; they aren't content to let BW stagnate, theyre constantly being innovative and taking risks in pushing the boundaries of the game through the community. Consider, every single "good" sport (football, american football, basketball, baseball etc etc) has their own opinionated columnists who give their own feedback as to whose hot or not. One only has to look at a local newpaper or hell ESPN to find these power rankings or an opinionated dickhead that you either love or hate. And dont compare KESPA to this. KESPA has no soul, its just a completely objective computer formula that has no consideration of the backstory in every game. Its fucking boring. Give me a well written, opinonated power ranking any day.
As for Etter's qualifications, Mani already stated the obvious flaw - Etter was not properly introduced as a "expert" to the scene. Nevertheless, I've found his insights to be very valid and I value his opinions, and even though I dont necessarily agree with all of them, he makes very good arguments for it, which is more than I can say for tfeigns unhealthy obsession with chojja. His abrasivness is obviously a way to polarize and fire up the masses. I love it.
I find it greatly annoying that more than half the comments I see in the Power Rankings are very shallow and of poor quality, and quantity for that matter. I see people say, no you're wrong... that's it. They give no reasoning behind it. DJEtter knows what he's talking about. He put a lot of reason and thinking into these selections.
I would really like to see the Power Rankings spark intelligent debates whenever they come out. But right now I see some people putting intelligent input and the majority putting half assed one line disagreements. Show some respect to DJEtter and put some thought into your criticisms.
Well, I chat with etter about SC time to time... we have different opinions, but I can't honestly say Etter's opinions suck. They're pretty good and validated.... mine are just better. ~_~ Besides the man thinking Reach is #1 protoss, he's pretty good about what he does.
Players that shouldnt be on the list or placed lower : Sea[Shield],Bisu[Shield],Gorush Players that should be on the list or placed higher: Silver,Goodfriend,Iloveoov and maybe a #5-6 for Nal_ra. I agree with the rest of the list,its just my opinion.
On December 01 2006 14:57 Hot_Bid wrote: after watching superfight im going to have to say i disagree with your #1, savior should not be up on the list at all
On November 28 2006 21:11 jkillashark wrote: I find it greatly annoying that more than half the comments I see in the Power Rankings are very shallow and of poor quality, and quantity for that matter. I see people say, no you're wrong... that's it. They give no reasoning behind it. DJEtter knows what he's talking about. He put a lot of reason and thinking into these selections.
I would really like to see the Power Rankings spark intelligent debates whenever they come out. But right now I see some people putting intelligent input and the majority putting half assed one line disagreements. Show some respect to DJEtter and put some thought into your criticisms.
i agree 100% except replace annoying with amusing so i agree 99.074%
On November 28 2006 21:11 jkillashark wrote: I find it greatly annoying that more than half the comments I see in the Power Rankings are very shallow and of poor quality, and quantity for that matter...no reasoning behind it...the majority putting half assed one line disagreements...
I think you can replace "the Power Rankings" with "teamliquid.net" and your comments are as accurate, if not more. There's no reason to pick a bone with this particular thread since a bulk of mindless discussion is common throughout the forums. Such content is expected and perhaps even desired by the moderators. Because if it wasn't, why aren't the authors of every shallow post punished? If you don't like such conduct in discussion, you could endeavor to change it, but since it has been a tradition of TL.net since its inception, you might find difficulty.
On December 04 2006 06:09 -Carlodajin- wrote: 1. AnyTime[gm] 2. JulyZerg 3. IlOveOOv 4. XellOs[yG]
are you serious or joking?
Serious... I may change the IlOveOOv place in the future...since it depends on the last WCG result...I really admire IlOveOOv for his accomplishment... And actually is like this if I include SlayerS_`BoxeR` on the list... 1. SlayerS_`BoxeR` 2. AnyTime[gm] 3. JulyZerg 4. IlOveOOv 5. XellOs[yG]
On December 04 2006 06:09 -Carlodajin- wrote: 1. AnyTime[gm] 2. JulyZerg 3. IlOveOOv 4. XellOs[yG]
are you serious or joking?
Serious... I may change the IlOveOOv place in the future...since it depends on the last WCG result...I really admire IlOveOOv for his accomplishment... And actually is like this if I include SlayerS_`BoxeR` on the list... 1. SlayerS_`BoxeR` 2. AnyTime[gm] 3. JulyZerg 4. IlOveOOv 5. XellOs[yG]
Wow, do you even realize that BOXER DOESN'T PLAY ANYMORE and couldn't even be REMOTELY CONSIDERED on a "hot list" at the moment? You neglect to put even sAvior[gm] who is CLEARLY the best player at the moment. I'm not going to even go into why your list is wrong because I have a feeling you are going to refute my argument by saying "No... iloveOOv win wcg... NaDa has never played wcg.. OOv #1 macro.. cheater terran"
You either have very poor English and as a result, cannot understand that a power ranking is different than a list of one's 5 favorite players, or you are just a hopeless moronic retard. I'm hoping it's the first one.
On November 28 2006 21:11 jkillashark wrote: I find it greatly annoying that more than half the comments I see in the Power Rankings are very shallow and of poor quality, and quantity for that matter...no reasoning behind it...the majority putting half assed one line disagreements...
I think you can replace "the Power Rankings" with "teamliquid.net" and your comments are as accurate, if not more. There's no reason to pick a bone with this particular thread since a bulk of mindless discussion is common throughout the forums. Such content is expected and perhaps even desired by the moderators. Because if it wasn't, why aren't the authors of every shallow post punished? If you don't like such conduct in discussion, you could endeavor to change it, but since it has been a tradition of TL.net since its inception, you might find difficulty.
TL has always had a strict line of moderating, and as a result, their forums have by far the best quality out of all non-korean SC sites (just look at gg.net's forums -_-).
And also, how exactly would you punish shallow posts? Ban every poster, so that we're left with 50 people, and all the rest quit SC and progaming?
On November 28 2006 21:11 jkillashark wrote: I find it greatly annoying that more than half the comments I see in the Power Rankings are very shallow and of poor quality, and quantity for that matter...no reasoning behind it...the majority putting half assed one line disagreements...
I think you can replace "the Power Rankings" with "teamliquid.net" and your comments are as accurate, if not more. There's no reason to pick a bone with this particular thread since a bulk of mindless discussion is common throughout the forums. Such content is expected and perhaps even desired by the moderators. Because if it wasn't, why aren't the authors of every shallow post punished? If you don't like such conduct in discussion, you could endeavor to change it, but since it has been a tradition of TL.net since its inception, you might find difficulty.
TL has always had a strict line of moderating, and as a result, their forums have by far the best quality out of all non-korean SC sites (just look at gg.net's forums -_-).
And also, how exactly would you punish shallow posts? Ban every poster, so that we're left with 50 people, and all the rest quit SC and progaming?
Perhaps tl.net is the best quality of any non-Korean SC site, but the quality is much worse than other forums (not SC related). I don't know why you're asking me how I would punish shallow posters. Like I said, it's part of the forums that the administrators desire but don't encourage. There is a balance between popularity and quality and this forum has settled at a point and I'm not judging it at all. My point was just that it seemed a bit funny for jkillashark to bring that up in this thread when I think it's omnipresent and obvious.
In my opinion, the English-speaking SC community can't support a lively forum that bans all shallow posters. The percentage of people in the SC community who would be good posters (ie have knowledge, time and willingness) is not high enough, considering how small the total population is, to support a lively forum. The number would dip too small to make good use of the forum medium. Maybe I'm wrong and there could be such a forum. However it'd be crazy for TL.net to risk the good thing they have going here just to find out.
On November 28 2006 21:11 jkillashark wrote: I find it greatly annoying that more than half the comments I see in the Power Rankings are very shallow and of poor quality, and quantity for that matter...no reasoning behind it...the majority putting half assed one line disagreements...
I think you can replace "the Power Rankings" with "teamliquid.net" and your comments are as accurate, if not more. There's no reason to pick a bone with this particular thread since a bulk of mindless discussion is common throughout the forums. Such content is expected and perhaps even desired by the moderators. Because if it wasn't, why aren't the authors of every shallow post punished? If you don't like such conduct in discussion, you could endeavor to change it, but since it has been a tradition of TL.net since its inception, you might find difficulty.
TL has always had a strict line of moderating, and as a result, their forums have by far the best quality out of all non-korean SC sites (just look at gg.net's forums -_-).
And also, how exactly would you punish shallow posts? Ban every poster, so that we're left with 50 people, and all the rest quit SC and progaming?
Perhaps tl.net is the best quality of any non-Korean SC site, but the quality is much worse than other forums (not SC related). I don't know why you're asking me how I would punish shallow posters. Like I said, it's part of the forums that the administrators desire but don't encourage. There is a balance between popularity and quality and this forum has settled at a point and I'm not judging it at all. My point was just that it seemed a bit funny for jkillashark to bring that up in this thread when I think it's omnipresent and obvious.
In my opinion, the English-speaking SC community can't support a lively forum that bans all shallow posters. The percentage of people in the SC community who would be good posters (ie have knowledge, time and willingness) is not high enough, considering how small the total population is, to support a lively forum. The number would dip too small to make good use of the forum medium. Maybe I'm wrong and there could be such a forum. However it'd be crazy for TL.net to risk the good thing they have going here just to find out.
Way to go Sigmund and Freud on me. I only wrote that to encourage the so called "shallow posters" to think more about their posts in the future. I'm sorry if my comment hurt your feelings D=. I know it's rampant over teamliquid.net but why the hell would moderators desire such posts?
I don't believe I said anything that implies my understanding of your post as being anything other than what you just said it was. Most of my writing was a commentary on the forum simply sparked from what you wrote. Your comment didn't hurt my feelings, as I said in my response to Orome, since I'm not judging TL.net at all. Posting here isn't an emotional experience for me so there's no need to apologize.
As far as why the moderators would desire the posts, I tried to address that in my response to Orome. If there were absolutely no shallow posts, as Orome said, we'd be left with 50 people. That won't sustain this forum. The SC community isn't big enough to be picky so that if people insist on making only 1 out of every 10 posts worthwhile, then we have to take the good with the bad and make the best of it. I suppose the word 'desire' is a bit of a crux but I tried to amend it by saying that moderators would never encourage such behavior. Such behavior is always expected and moderators consciously allow it, everywhere, so it just came off as a bit funny to me that you brought the issue up here. I thought this thread was rather decent for discussion as far as the standards of the site go.
PS: I don't understand the 'Sigmund and Freud' comment. Aren't they magicians?
On December 06 2006 10:25 stickman wrote: I don't believe I said anything that implies my understanding of your post as being anything other than what you just said it was. Most of my writing was a commentary on the forum simply sparked from what you wrote. Your comment didn't hurt my feelings, as I said in my response to Orome, since I'm not judging TL.net at all. Posting here isn't an emotional experience for me so there's no need to apologize.
As far as why the moderators would desire the posts, I tried to address that in my response to Orome. If there were absolutely no shallow posts, as Orome said, we'd be left with 50 people. That won't sustain this forum. The SC community isn't big enough to be picky so that if people insist on making only 1 out of every 10 posts worthwhile, then we have to take the good with the bad and make the best of it. I suppose the word 'desire' is a bit of a crux but I tried to amend it by saying that moderators would never encourage such behavior. Such behavior is always expected and moderators consciously allow it, everywhere, so it just came off as a bit funny to me that you brought the issue up here. I thought this thread was rather decent for discussion as far as the standards of the site go.
PS: I don't understand the 'Sigmund and Freud' comment. Aren't they magicians?
Sigmund and Freud magicians jajajaja...this kids nowadays...
On December 06 2006 10:25 stickman wrote: I don't believe I said anything that implies my understanding of your post as being anything other than what you just said it was. Most of my writing was a commentary on the forum simply sparked from what you wrote. Your comment didn't hurt my feelings, as I said in my response to Orome, since I'm not judging TL.net at all. Posting here isn't an emotional experience for me so there's no need to apologize.
As far as why the moderators would desire the posts, I tried to address that in my response to Orome. If there were absolutely no shallow posts, as Orome said, we'd be left with 50 people. That won't sustain this forum. The SC community isn't big enough to be picky so that if people insist on making only 1 out of every 10 posts worthwhile, then we have to take the good with the bad and make the best of it. I suppose the word 'desire' is a bit of a crux but I tried to amend it by saying that moderators would never encourage such behavior. Such behavior is always expected and moderators consciously allow it, everywhere, so it just came off as a bit funny to me that you brought the issue up here. I thought this thread was rather decent for discussion as far as the standards of the site go.
PS: I don't understand the 'Sigmund and Freud' comment. Aren't they magicians?
Zzzzz. You've given this a lot of thought. I just wanted to see some constructive criticism, rather than 1. iloveoov, 2. YellOw, 3. BoxeR over and over again.
On December 11 2006 20:37 jkillashark wrote: Oooh one more week and the new power rankings should be up.
You are a keen observer. I might wait a couple days if some big games are coming up or something (I really don't want to post them before I've seen an OSL game or two), but they should be up a little before Christmas one way or another.
There havent been enough matches played yet for the ranking to change much, mostly dual, first week of MSL, and some progleague matches. Worth to note Sea playing in neither MSL nor OSL. Even though his skill level is good enough to belong on the list, his hot streak has cooled considerably. Jaedong should definitely be added and perhaps Much too as he has been doing good lately. Still remains to see what impact he'll have in the leagues. Qualifying is one thing, performing there is another thing, just look at Light&Canata for example who should be doing better than 0-3 in groups, but dont.
Right after New Year would be a good time to make a new ranking.
Shut up, that was a fluke. That was the Maestro having a wrist twitch and the flute solo went bad. Pure fluke. Nice timing on Hwasin's part but it's Savior. He's lost to MnM rushes before.
Sea has to be gone, and BOUT TIME!! I always say that kid is hype. Bisu -_--;; Drop out of MSL so you can drop out of pokerrank~
On December 13 2006 18:01 SuperJongMan wrote: Shut up, that was a fluke. That was the Maestro having a wrist twitch and the flute solo went bad. Pure fluke. Nice timing on Hwasin's part but it's Savior. He's lost to MnM rushes before.
Sea has to be gone, and BOUT TIME!! I always say that kid is hype. Bisu -_--;; Drop out of MSL so you can drop out of pokerrank~
Excuses... Dont try to opacate Hwasin's effort... I saw the game and I can tell by my years of experience...in seeing Korean Progamer Matches... That Hwasin vs Savior was a...GG...
I think maybe its best if Etter does his Power Rankings for December 2006 AFTER the Wednesday and Friday OSL games. That way for sure he knows if Hwasin, Jaedong, and etc are hot for reals.
Jaedong isn't in OSL, and he just lost to Pusan in MSL.
I agree with Guybrush, there isn't enough information to make a ranking that doesn't seem a little arbitrary right now, I'd wait 2-3 weeks and see how the players do in OSL/MSL and the proleague playoffs.
next powerrank should be after the PL playoff on the 23rd + Show Spoiler +
this is just my opinion, so if u dont want it dont read any further Player's that should be dropping GGplay- really starting to slump sadly Bisu - starting to lose games... but i suspect fanboyism will prevent any dramatic fall Nada - dispite making his MSL group.. he did lose to pokju =/... maybe staying at three will be appropriate JJu- there are simply better gamers to put in there Gorush - can you say flop? Player's that should move up Nal_ra - atleast to ahead of bisu Jaedong - check out that PL record, enough for tenth i think Pusan - not top ten, but is showing signs of form after beating jaedong and GGplay Odin - probably not top ten but showing some real promise here, potentially the next big thing Free - beating juylzerg twice pvz is some mean feat, and is showing real form as well as qualifying for the next msl Much - hes like the more glamorised version of free imo Daezang - cornerstone of hanbit's success in PL as well as proiding good games and doing amazingly well in the 16man bloodbath for that last spot in the MSL dispite not actually making it Hwasin - beating savior in itself is an awesome feat as well as having killer tvz, he deserves a low spot imo Light[AlivE] - MBC's ace, awesome record, insane multitasking ability- this guy is machine and his games are awesome.. imo better than sea
On December 16 2006 02:20 Orome wrote: Odin sucks. :p
Well I dont think so...if you are talking about the Odin from Brazil...who lose against Legend 2-1...in Round Of 16 of WCG 2006...I mean thats a really big accomplishment...and in my opinion to say he sucks its just wrong... But if you are talking about a Korean Progamer...its just even worse...because obviously the Odin Korean Progamer owns the Odin from Brazil...
Regardless even after waiting 2 or 3 more weeks it could just complicate things even more. But as of right now I think it is impossible to rank top 10. There are so many people that deserve spots such as Jaedong,Hwasin,Pusan,Much,Free,and Daezang.. Really I have no idea how I would list my top 10. Maybe the list could possibly be bumped to top 15 because of how tense and heated progaming is of right now its incredibly difficult to just name "10" of the best progamers.
On December 16 2006 02:15 Plexa wrote: next powerrank should be after the PL playoff on the 23rd + Show Spoiler +
this is just my opinion, so if u dont want it dont read any further Player's that should be dropping GGplay- really starting to slump sadly Bisu - starting to lose games... but i suspect fanboyism will prevent any dramatic fall Nada - dispite making his MSL group.. he did lose to pokju =/... maybe staying at three will be appropriate JJu- there are simply better gamers to put in there Gorush - can you say flop? Player's that should move up Nal_ra - atleast to ahead of bisu Jaedong - check out that PL record, enough for tenth i think Pusan - not top ten, but is showing signs of form after beating jaedong and GGplay Odin - probably not top ten but showing some real promise here, potentially the next big thing Free - beating juylzerg twice pvz is some mean feat, and is showing real form as well as qualifying for the next msl Much - hes like the more glamorised version of free imo Daezang - cornerstone of hanbit's success in PL as well as proiding good games and doing amazingly well in the 16man bloodbath for that last spot in the MSL dispite not actually making it Hwasin - beating savior in itself is an awesome feat as well as having killer tvz, he deserves a low spot imo
i wouldn't put hwasin up there. Besides winning 1 tvz vs Savior, let's not forget he got completely raped to SiLvEr by mass mutas, in a game that they desparately needed to win to make it to Play Offs.... and because he lost, they failed to get in.
So now it is exactly one month from the last rankings. I'm looking forward to reading next discussion even if i've posted in that news post that this is so useless feature but i completely changed my mind. Etter is right man for this job , not because his rankings were nearly identical to mine (i would probably switch positions of two or three players) ;p
On December 20 2006 22:54 oshibori_probe wrote: wtf hes only updating them once every few months? Seriously how did EtterStyle work his way up so high?
Stupid post of the week.
And Etter, if Bisu somehow manages to fanboy his way onto your new list, I'm going to hunt you down myself.
On December 20 2006 22:54 oshibori_probe wrote: wtf hes only updating them once every few months? Seriously how did EtterStyle work his way up so high?
Stupid post of the week.
And Etter, if Bisu somehow manages to fanboy his way onto your new list, I'm going to hunt you down myself.
Just wow on oshibori's post. It's been, right now, exactly one month, and yeah, I'm going to wait until a few more games have been played. We started the list directly after an OSL and MSL, meaning that there's going to be a bit of a lull in the number of important games. So I might delay it a week--maybe two!
Plus I'm in fucking Montana for Christmas, so my ability to watch SC games is going to be severely hampered.
There's no need to defend yourself against stupidity DJ. You're not expected to update this thing any faster.
All I can say is that I am standing damn proud right now. GGplay has hit a lull, just as I thought. Other than beating GoRush in the first group round of the OSL he's done nothing but blow it since the first installment of this ranking.
And Nada, losing to Oov in the first OSL group round, will be eliminated from the OSL in the groups as we see Oov and Much advance from group A. It makes me so happy to watch. That should cause him to fall a bit.
As for Bisu, I can't argue with you guys. It saddens me that you're right. In time he'll show us results though. I'm confident of that. But why exactly should Ra be higher? I don't know, I think it's a good idea for DJ to wait a while yet. We don't really have anything to base the ranking on other than limited proleague games right now.
He should at least have most of the OSL and MSL group stage results before he fires up another one.
Haha AnyTime is 0-3, out of the top 5 if not the list IMO.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Pusan, Jaedong, Free or Much appear in the list.
See Bisu/Anytime/Nada/GoRush disappear oh yeah, and JJu
Bisu might stay after all, seeing as beating anytime should give him some redemption. also, we'll see what happens in the pl finals along with his MSL.
On November 26 2006 08:55 racebannon wrote: If there's some desire for a "tl top 10" why not make it some sort of voting where peoples opinions have a say
I'm afraid of the horseshit results we'll get from something like this.
Who is the current hottest player? 1. Boxer -- 80% 2. Iloveoov - 15% 3. Reach 5%
Fact of the matter is a lot of people here are fanboi's who don't actually think about who's better and who's not, they just cheer for their favorite player -- and that's perfectly OK. Stuff like that keeps the game going in all reality. But for a power ranking I'm afraid we'll be seeing the same results over and over and over again because people will continually vote for their favorite player and not who's best
read what its said for Ra and Jju
"I hate Ra. He gives Protoss players everywhere a bad name. But damn it, he keeps winning. So I’m throwing him a bone and giving him my coveted #9 spot, thus allowing him to boast that “One person is ranked lower than me!”
that's the explanation of an imbecile, I don't care about what the idiot who wrote the ranking says, but just look what you are saying to "defend" the Power Rank opinion its horseshit as you just said, its more based on likes and dislikes,
On November 26 2006 08:55 racebannon wrote: If there's some desire for a "tl top 10" why not make it some sort of voting where peoples opinions have a say
I'm afraid of the horseshit results we'll get from something like this.
Who is the current hottest player? 1. Boxer -- 80% 2. Iloveoov - 15% 3. Reach 5%
Fact of the matter is a lot of people here are fanboi's who don't actually think about who's better and who's not, they just cheer for their favorite player -- and that's perfectly OK. Stuff like that keeps the game going in all reality. But for a power ranking I'm afraid we'll be seeing the same results over and over and over again because people will continually vote for their favorite player and not who's best
read what its said for Ra and Jju
"I hate Ra. He gives Protoss players everywhere a bad name. But damn it, he keeps winning. So I’m throwing him a bone and giving him my coveted #9 spot, thus allowing him to boast that “One person is ranked lower than me!”
that's the explanation of an imbecile, I don't care about what the idiot who wrote the ranking says, but just look what you are saying to "defend" the Power Rank opinion its horseshit as you just said, its more based on likes and dislikes,
Well, although i dont agree with etter's opinion on these players, i like the feature The ranking itself gives controversy and creates discussion - certainly not a bad thing
On December 23 2006 08:10 Myxomatosis wrote: Haha AnyTime is 0-3, out of the top 5 if not the list IMO.
I wouldn't be shocked to see Pusan, Jaedong, Free or Much appear in the list.
See Bisu/Anytime/Nada/GoRush disappear
neither would i, bisu might stay, he does have alot of fanboyism points
On November 26 2006 08:55 racebannon wrote: If there's some desire for a "tl top 10" why not make it some sort of voting where peoples opinions have a say
I'm afraid of the horseshit results we'll get from something like this.
Who is the current hottest player? 1. Boxer -- 80% 2. Iloveoov - 15% 3. Reach 5%
Fact of the matter is a lot of people here are fanboi's who don't actually think about who's better and who's not, they just cheer for their favorite player -- and that's perfectly OK. Stuff like that keeps the game going in all reality. But for a power ranking I'm afraid we'll be seeing the same results over and over and over again because people will continually vote for their favorite player and not who's best
read what its said for Ra and Jju
"I hate Ra. He gives Protoss players everywhere a bad name. But damn it, he keeps winning. So I’m throwing him a bone and giving him my coveted #9 spot, thus allowing him to boast that “One person is ranked lower than me!”
that's the explanation of an imbecile, I don't care about what the idiot who wrote the ranking says, but just look what you are saying to "defend" the Power Rank opinion its horseshit as you just said, its more based on likes and dislikes,
Debate as much as you like, but call the man an idiot and consider yourself ban bait. There is no reason to make this personal, so stop being a prick. You guys should stop being so effected by the flavour of the month. + Show Spoiler +
Bisu just won the Ace match against Anytime, which is an incredible one game acheivement considering how deep in the PL the match was. Saying Bisu doesn't deserve to be on the list at all is pretty silly IMO.
You can't just take a guy off the list if he gets eliminated from a tournament. You're crazy if you think either Anytime or Nada are going anywhere off the list any time soon.
Now dropping...that's a different thing all together. But that won't effect Anytime of course, because he's going to win the rest of his games and move on in OSL.
1. Savior - despite his few loses he is still in the run for both leagues. 2. Midas - really great shape, beating Savior. 3. AnyTime - not sure about this one, he loses much now, and he lost two games in proleague. 4. NaDa - same like AnyTime, slump. 5. Much - wow, this dude is owning it up hardly, there is no need for explanation. 6. Light - this is one crazy player, I am watching over him. 7. Bisu - he is performing fairly good, there is no need to remove him from list. 8. Ra - this is hard one, KTF doesn`t have more games in proleague, so Ra`s performance can be only measured in MSL. Despite his win vs Bisu I would not put him above Bisu for now. 9. Jeadong - mostly because of proleague record 10. Free - nice performance from free lately.
People need to understand that this list is based on current shape. I tried to rank players according to that rule. Still, there would be interesting to see how will oov, July and Casy perform in next their next games in osl. Those rankings can change so fast. I think i could easily kick Ra from the list simply because he doesn`t have much games played.
On December 25 2006 03:08 Red_Dragon wrote: Ok, this is my list:
1. Savior - despite his few loses he is still in the run for both leagues. 2. Midas - really great shape, beating Savior. 3. AnyTime - not sure about this one, he loses much now, and he lost two games in proleague. 4. NaDa - same like AnyTime, slump. 5. Much - wow, this dude is owning it up hardly, there is no need for explanation. 6. Light - this is one crazy player, I am watching over him. 7. Bisu - he is performing fairly good, there is no need to remove him from list. 8. Ra - this is hard one, KTF doesn`t have more games in proleague, so Ra`s performance can be only measured in MSL. Despite his win vs Bisu I would not put him above Bisu for now. 9. Jeadong - mostly because of proleague record 10. Free - nice performance from free lately.
People need to understand that this list is based on current shape. I tried to rank players according to that rule. Still, there would be interesting to see how will oov, July and Casy perform in next their next games in osl. Those rankings can change so fast. I think i could easily kick Ra from the list simply because he doesn`t have much games played.
Eh, there is a lot I don't like about your list. Top 2 spots are fine. It should be those two players, maybe not in that order, but those 2 for sure.
Anytime at 3? Are you kidding me? He lost to Pusan and Bisu (costing Lecaf the PL), and got trounced by fucking firebathero (due to shitty reaver harass, not the map). Anytime should be on the lower half of the list, if even on it at all (seeing as this is a list of CURRENT scariness and doesn't take prior performance into account like KeSPA)
NaDa at 4? Uh, no way. Don't get me wrong, NaDa is my all time favorite player, but losing to OOv, Mingu, POKJU???, savior etc doesn't qualify you for the #4 spot. NaDa is suffering from the curse right now and probably won't be on the next feature.
Much - Yeah he's owning it up, but he hasn't showed THAT much yet, lets wait until next week after he beats nada. Then maybe the 5 spot is justified. Beating dongrae doesn't get you much respect.
Light - Light fighting!!! he should be around the 5~6 range
7 - Bisu, ehh idk about this one, losing to rA means a lot IMO. But he has been doing well in the PL and trashed Iris, so depending on his performance against cj we could see him around.
8 - rA, hard to say on this one. I would keep him in there just because he beat bisu
9. Jaedong - He belongs in here for sure, idk where though, probably higher than Bisu.
10. Free - Yeah he belongs in here too, lower the bisu ATM and higher than ra.
People who I think might be qualified for the list as well: GGPlay (still), Sea, Casy?, OOv?,
Remember these rankings are for players who were HOT in the past few weeks.
If NaDa went 1-5 in the past month and he only drops to 4th place that's a load of ddong for some lesser known pro like Much who goes maybe 4-1 in the month.
I think just because a player makes it on Etter's Power Rankings one month doesn't mean that player is going to be given leniency the next month on Etter's Rankings. In my humble opinion, the rankings should have a clean slate every time they are done.
A lot of people are saying Anytime! Anytime! I'm not quite sure how HOT Anytime is. He lost to FireBatHero. He lost proleague games. Is that a top 10 player for the month? I doubt it.
On December 25 2006 17:09 jkillashark wrote: Remember these rankings are for players who were HOT in the past few weeks.
That's not entirely true. I factor in the past, say, couple months. I have a "short memory" in terms of performances--beating Savior a month ago isn't going to mean a thing if you just got 0-2ed by Doggi--but I'm not just looking at who's 4-1 or 5-1 or 0-4 in the past month; I'm looking at a) their records b) the matchup c) their opponents d) the maps e) the stakes f) the actual game (cheese, straight-up, bad breaks, etc) g) the league...
It's a complicated system, but I try to avoid jumping on the slump bandwagon whenever possible. For example, if Casy won the next OSL in a brilliant series of TvT and TvZ matchups, I wouldn't call him "slumped"--or ding him too much on the list--just because he lost a few TvPs in the Proleague in the subsequent weeks. It looks bad, to be sure, but it's not indicative of him being out of form. It's when players start losing on reasonable maps in their best matchups that I really take notice. Along the same vein, Yellow[Arnc] getting and winning a ton of ZvTs in a row isn't going to make me forget his laughable other matchups (ok, he's improved a little as of late, but work with the example).
I've got a pretty good idea what the next list is going to be, and I'm counting on the next week of matches to cement it into its final form. I'll do my best to get it up promptly so that everyone can get back to calling me a biased moron--tools.
On November 22 2006 01:18 DJEtterStyle wrote: To clarify: this is not a rehash of the KeSPA rankings. This is not a lifetime achievement award. This list consists entirely of my picks of who is hot right now. Any player who loses a big game to an amateur opponent or attempts some particularly retarded cheese can look forward to dropping off the list as quickly as he arrived.
On November 22 2006 01:18 DJEtterStyle wrote: To clarify: this is not a rehash of the KeSPA rankings. This is not a lifetime achievement award. This list consists entirely of my picks of who is hot right now. Any player who loses a big game to an amateur opponent or attempts some particularly retarded cheese can look forward to dropping off the list as quickly as he arrived.
??
Yeah, and who's hot right now doesn't mean "who's performed well in the past four weeks." There's more to how hot someone is at this very second than such a small sample size. You have to look a little deeper.
Added: I know the whole thing sounds a bit contradictory, but I assure you it's not. It's just that the small number of games a player plays in a month can't dictate massive shifts without the list becoming a huge joke.
Random User: "Wait, you're telling me that Savior, your #1 player last month, is now off the list because he went 3-4 (made-up statistic) this past month? But he's still in both Starleagues and hasn't lost a Proleague match in seven years." Me: "Well, obviously he's not hot right now."
On November 22 2006 01:18 DJEtterStyle wrote: To clarify: this is not a rehash of the KeSPA rankings. This is not a lifetime achievement award. This list consists entirely of my picks of who is hot right now. Any player who loses a big game to an amateur opponent or attempts some particularly retarded cheese can look forward to dropping off the list as quickly as he arrived.
??
Yeah, and who's hot right now doesn't mean "who's performed well in the past four weeks." There's more to how hot someone is at this very second than such a small sample size. You have to look a little deeper.
Added: I know the whole thing sounds a bit contradictory, but I assure you it's not. It's just that the small number of games a player plays in a month can't dictate massive shifts without the list becoming a huge joke.
Random User: "Wait, you're telling me that Savior, your #1 player last month, is now off the list because he went 3-4 (made-up statistic) this past month? But he's still in both Starleagues and hasn't lost a Proleague match in seven years." Me: "Well, obviously he's not hot right now."
i really like GGplay, but this OSL has been so harsh for him, making big mistakes, not tiny ones as you say, like 1stgame vs FBH or losing a lot of drones to early terran rushes in group stage, his game overall has given me a good impression anyway, i do like how he manages the games but this kind of things that make him lose i'm not sure if he can overcome them once he has fallen there
also his face after losing r16... i think this has hurt him so much
On August 06 2008 07:19 crabapple wrote: hrmmmmm u think TL getting to meet Sea might have influenced the power rank a bit?
what r u smoking, of course not.
Terrans popping up left and right. Iris, Midas, etc. and even Flash holds his spot, despite a slight slump recently. ForGG truly deserves his spot, his current game is an absolute monster. Iris ... uh, inconsistent. Leta, need to watch. But surely Best should be ranked higher? Grr ...
ForGG better hold his spot, he's demolishing all of his opponents with nice counter-builds, mirroring what Bisu did with Savior. Brilliant!
On December 24 2008 20:07 rkarhu wrote: I sense sAviOr climbing the rank again...
Fixed.
I honestly have to agree. The Jangbi at the top is a bit questionable, but Bisu + Jaedong have been disappointing recently. I still think there should have been something up there about his queen use.
On November 22 2006 00:56 maVi wrote: I'm missing Reach cause it's Reach...
Reach is a disgrace to anything that was once manly.
Oh and Nal_rA should be much higher, even if you don't like him. He should have the number 5 or 6 spot in my opinion, I mean what has Gorush done lately? Not a bad list though... someone really needs to kick Savior's ass.
I'm looking forward to more of your work. Man, Team Liquid keeps getting better and better.
whoever wrote this is so biased. You can use supporting facts e.g. FlaSh has been dominating almost everyone, yes thats true if u see his games / TLPD. Nal_rA: I hope you lose? Wtf it's not like hes bm or hes cheating. Luck? Obvious bias word, this isnt tic tac toe, it's sc EDIT: I don't mean the person I quoted, I meant the person who wrote the Power Rank. Sorry
Yay bisu is back. And wowzers jaedong is back in first for power rank. I thought flash would never fall off #1 spot, but it IS based on monthly play. I'm surprised on how unpopular this thread is..
On August 30 2010 11:25 larjarse wrote: Yay bisu is back. And wowzers jaedong is back in first for power rank. I thought flash would never fall off #1 spot, but it IS based on monthly play. I'm surprised on how unpopular this thread is..
Because this is supposed to be the thread for that power rank and not for every PR every month. if you click comments below the PR list on the right side of the website you will see the PR for August 2010 and the actual comments on that PR (over 1k )
Im just curious why there's no september rank. Im tired of JD in number 1...want Flash back to the first place and Free and Stork a little higher
"I mean, who else can scare their opponent so much that he exits the game before it even starts?" When did this happen? Thanks for the Power Rank update (:
On November 14 2010 06:54 Emon_ wrote: "I mean, who else can scare their opponent so much that he exits the game before it even starts?" When did this happen? Thanks for the Power Rank update (:
I think that's the game where the player was DQ'd because he hit ESC during the countdown. Forgot the name, but it has to be the quickest game ever.
I disagree with Kal at #3. Even with F and J slumping, they are still playing at a high level. Putting Kal at #3 and JD at #4 makes this simply a "who's in both individual leagues" rank.
Wow, i dont agree at all with this list, but I understand why stork is high up there (GO STORK). One player to look out for is mind, is currently terminating his way through the current OSL.
It makes me happy to see 3 protoss players at the top of this month's power rank i agree with it. I really wish Stork to win at least on of the leagues as he really deserves it. Jaedong is a killer but he really doesn't do that impressive lately so Stork,Bisu,Kal all before JD.
Lolwut!! Flash - no.1 PR and Jaedong No.5.. I say this months PR's are goin to be an even bigger fayull than last months... Sorry Flamewheel but in No way is Bisu higher on the PR than JD!
wtf is this??? NOOOO, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! No sc2 power rank!, make separate if sombeody wants it that badly! I don't even know sc2 players, wtf+ Show Spoiler +
EPT
