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On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:bisu going 64 - 16 and 80% ratio is easily equivalent to 2 OSL/MSL titles .
Ahahahah, ahahahahahaahahahasdlkfhsdklfalfh
Oh my god, this is just so wrong. Holy crap.
Okay, you know what, even though I think you're absolutely bonkers for saying this, I will argue from your standpoint. Bisu has totally accomplished 2 titles worth of work by going 64-16 in proleague.
Bisu has acrued all of that since october of 2010. Now, you're streching pretty far back to give Bisu enough credit to be #1 on this rank. If you want to reach 8+ months back, I wonder what flash has? Oh, wow, he has an actual MSL! And 1 more month back and he has 2 MSLs and an OSL! Well, that's only 1 more title more than Bisu by your standards, but Bisu's still totally ahead of Flash, right?
Oh, wait, no, Flash has gone 52-16 in PL. While this isn't nearly as good as what Bisu has done, flash also has three actual titles! I wonder how much 52-16 is worth? I mean, flash is 12 wins behind Bisu, how much is 12 wins worth? 1/3rd a title? So Flash has 1 2/3rds an OSL/MSL in PL, and, you know, three actual OSL/MSLs.
During Bisu's PL streak, Flash has won as many titles as Bisu has in his whole career. Give me a break, if you want to bring up his damn overall PL stats for the past 8 months.
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reality will rock you, can' t wait to see stork back in the powerank!
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On July 02 2011 21:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:bisu going 64 - 16 and 80% ratio is easily equivalent to 2 OSL/MSL titles . Ahahahah, ahahahahahaahahahasdlkfhsdklfalfh Oh my god, this is just so wrong. Holy crap. Okay, you know what, even though I think you're absolutely bonkers for saying this, I will argue from your standpoint. Bisu has totally accomplished 2 titles worth of work by going 64-16 in proleague. Bisu has acrued all of that since october of 2010. Now, you're streching pretty far back to give Bisu enough credit to be #1 on this rank. If you want to reach 8+ months back, I wonder what flash has? Oh, wow, he has an actual MSL! And 1 more month back and he has 2 MSLs and an OSL! Well, that's only 1 more title more than Bisu by your standards, but Bisu's still totally ahead of Flash, right? Oh, wait, no, Flash has gone 52-16 in PL. While this isn't nearly as good as what Bisu has done, flash also has three actual titles! I wonder how much 52-16 is worth? I mean, flash is 12 wins behind Bisu, how much is 12 wins worth? 1/3rd a title? So Flash has 1 2/3rds an OSL/MSL in PL, and, you know, three actual OSL/MSLs. During Bisu's PL streak, Flash has won as many titles as Bisu has in his whole career. Give me a break, if you want to bring up his damn overall PL stats for the past 8 months.
no need to arouse yourself . flash is clearly better than bisu on the long term . i am talking only about june . in june bisu was better than flash , thats a fact .
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You weren't talking about only june. You brought up his proleague record amassed over 8 months. In June, Flash won the MSL and advanced to the OSL, Bisu beat Hiya/Baby as his best competition while dropping out of OSL. There's absolutely, positively, no excuse for Bisu to even be above Jaedong, much less Flash.
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On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
proleague is here all year , everyday ( or almost ) . its continually a part of landscape of SC . it has become more and more important above the years , its not like it was years ago . the first big proleague was the MBC vs SKT grand final in 2006 where sea exploded to the world for the only time of his life . after this , proleague became bigger and bigger . and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more . its everyday , korea live with it everyday . with a large bigger media coverage than 5 - 6 years ago . 80% of the TV SC games in korea are now in SPL . so give it credit . im not making publicity stunt here , but i think you all are underrating the importance of SPL .
Preach on, brotha!
PR writers have been F***ing with Sea and Leta for too long!!! I demand they be ranked #2 and #3 behind the almighty Bisu in the next PR to make up for all the injustice done to them in the name of "Starleague is also important". Sea in particular should always be automatic top 5 for continuing to win with such amazing practice partners as failhoon and hyun.
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On July 02 2011 22:26 vaMpYr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 21:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:bisu going 64 - 16 and 80% ratio is easily equivalent to 2 OSL/MSL titles . Ahahahah, ahahahahahaahahahasdlkfhsdklfalfh Oh my god, this is just so wrong. Holy crap. Okay, you know what, even though I think you're absolutely bonkers for saying this, I will argue from your standpoint. Bisu has totally accomplished 2 titles worth of work by going 64-16 in proleague. Bisu has acrued all of that since october of 2010. Now, you're streching pretty far back to give Bisu enough credit to be #1 on this rank. If you want to reach 8+ months back, I wonder what flash has? Oh, wow, he has an actual MSL! And 1 more month back and he has 2 MSLs and an OSL! Well, that's only 1 more title more than Bisu by your standards, but Bisu's still totally ahead of Flash, right? Oh, wait, no, Flash has gone 52-16 in PL. While this isn't nearly as good as what Bisu has done, flash also has three actual titles! I wonder how much 52-16 is worth? I mean, flash is 12 wins behind Bisu, how much is 12 wins worth? 1/3rd a title? So Flash has 1 2/3rds an OSL/MSL in PL, and, you know, three actual OSL/MSLs. During Bisu's PL streak, Flash has won as many titles as Bisu has in his whole career. Give me a break, if you want to bring up his damn overall PL stats for the past 8 months. no need to arouse yourself . flash is clearly better than bisu on the long term . i am talking only about june . in june bisu was better than flash , thats a fact .
If you only are talking about June, let's talk about June. Bisu is 10-3 in all competitions in June, that is better than Flash. Jangbi is 21-2 in all competition in June, that is better than Bisu. That is also a fact.
But normally, people look beyond the immediate history when making these rankings, which is why Bisu is above Jangbi, and why Flash is over Bisu.
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On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 15:01 Zaxro wrote:On July 02 2011 13:51 Womwomwom wrote:On July 02 2011 13:39 Devise wrote:On July 02 2011 13:36 Essbee wrote:
So many blind fanboyism. PL and SL counts whether you want it or not. I know it may be hard for some fans but seriously, it's just a rank and I personally think it is justified for Bisu or whoever.
And as VGhost said somewhere, if you dominate only half of the scene, you don't deserve to be at the top. Even if you love a progamer that would be ready to marry it, you still have to remain realistic towards their performances.
Let's just hope Bisu can get better in individual leagues (and protosses in general for that matter). That's it.
Cheers. Let's look at the #1, 1-5 in PL, 8-1 in SL if that isn't dominating half the scene I don't know what is. I think the point is that Flash's troubles in proleague have only been very recent and for the previous god knows how many rounds, he's been nearly as good as Bisu and winning an absurd number of games (isn't he #2 in PL wins right now? if he isn't, he's definitely #3). While Bisu hasn't achieved anything in any individual league since god knows how long. While Flash might drop out once to guys like Hyuk and Classic, Bisu has been dropping out to go.go, Shine, Hyvaa, Hero, etc since 2009 (?). Unless I am mistaken Bisu has not made it past the Ro16 of either MSL or OSL since August of 2009 when he lost to Iris in the Avalon MSL (the one Calm won). He also won WCG Korea in August 2090 Since then I think he has only made it past group stages twice (losing in the Ro16 to Sea and Stork in the Bigfile MSL and PDPop MSL respectively). So I don't think Bisu has done anything significant in an individual league for almost two years now(I consider Ro8 to be the very bottom of what can be considered significant, but Ro4 and Finals are of course far more significant). On the other Hand all three of the people above Bisu (ignoring Yellow) made the top 4 in the last MSL (Flash winning the MSL), and Hydra won the prior MSL that Jaedong also got top4 in (and that is completely ignoring any history before that in which JD and Flash did phenomenally in individual leagues through all of 2010). So all three of them blow Bisu out of the water when it comes to individual leagues. Now let's look at the team league performance (note I started at the beggining of September 2010 because I thought that was a good spot to include the entire PL season so far)  Bisu 64-16 80% Flash 53-16 76.81% Jaedong 51-23 68.92%Hydra 41-23 64.06%So as we can see, Bisu has certainly been the best PL player, but Jaedong Flash and Hydra have all be doing damn good the entire proleague season, with both Jaedong and Flash breaking 50 wins, and Hydra breaking 40. So it is essentially Bisu-The best PL player, shit in individual leagues and has been doing poorly in individual leagues for a long time. Flash-Phenomenal PL, won an individual league to tie his record with Nada's. Has done slightly less well in PL this month, but has done well in PL the whole season Jaedong-Phenomenal PL, got dual Ro4 in two succesive individual leagues Hydra-Damn good PL performance, got Ro4 this MSL and won the last MSL So people are saying that Bisu deserves to be higher than people who have been doing well in individual leagues while also doing great in proleague while he dominates proleague (also I would like to point out that good PL results are more impresive if a player is in an individual league because they have to prepare for PL and their individual league, while someone like Bisu only has to worry obout PL. Now Bisu's PL performance is SOOOOOOO good that I am still willing to put him in top 5, even above people with far better individual league results, but he needs to show some individual league results to move up beyond where he is (and I question even putting him above Zero, but Zero seems inconstant enough to me to lower his ranking a bit). proleague is here all year , everyday ( or almost ) . its continually a part of landscape of SC . it has become more and more important above the years , its not like it was years ago . the first big proleague was the MBC vs SKT grand final in 2006 where sea exploded to the world for the only time of his life . after this , proleague became bigger and bigger . and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more . its everyday , korea live with it everyday . with a large bigger media coverage than 5 - 6 years ago . 80% of the TV SC games in korea are now in SPL . so give it credit . im not making publicity stunt here , but i think you all are underrating the importance of SPL . and more important , SPL is a different competition , sometimes harder . you never know who you'll get to play , maybe a total newcomer . someone the team in front of you make the things perfectly harder for you , with the perfect player against you of the perfect map for him . competition is here more complicated . bisu going 64 - 16 and 80% ratio is easily equivalent to 2 OSL/MSL titles .
In the end, it simply doesn't matter why you think proleague should be weighted more when the PR WRITER and nearly everyone else has established that the consensus is individual leagues > proleague. You're arguing with yourself.
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Flash still at the top obviously. Too bad Jaedong kept beating him.
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Dear Bisu fans. Playing in Proleague means that the coach picks the maps and, with some degree of confidence, the opponent. This is entirely different than a SL where you don't get to be picky. You have to play whomever the dices throw at you on whatever maps the said dices picked.
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On July 02 2011 22:50 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
proleague is here all year , everyday ( or almost ) . its continually a part of landscape of SC . it has become more and more important above the years , its not like it was years ago . the first big proleague was the MBC vs SKT grand final in 2006 where sea exploded to the world for the only time of his life . after this , proleague became bigger and bigger . and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more . its everyday , korea live with it everyday . with a large bigger media coverage than 5 - 6 years ago . 80% of the TV SC games in korea are now in SPL . so give it credit . im not making publicity stunt here , but i think you all are underrating the importance of SPL .
Preach on, brotha! PR writers have been F***ing with Sea and Leta for too long!!! I demand they be ranked #2 and #3 behind the almighty Bisu in the next PR to make up for all the injustice done to them in the name of "Starleague is also important". Sea in particular should always be automatic top 5 for continuing to win with such amazing practice partners as failhoon and hyun.
But this is TL's PR. It has nothing to do with the Korean's perspective on the game.
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Oh, anyone know if TL plans to make a SC2 PR? I don't follow much sc2 and would like to know who's game should I watch when there's no BW matches.
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On July 02 2011 23:39 mmdmmd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 22:50 baubo wrote:On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
proleague is here all year , everyday ( or almost ) . its continually a part of landscape of SC . it has become more and more important above the years , its not like it was years ago . the first big proleague was the MBC vs SKT grand final in 2006 where sea exploded to the world for the only time of his life . after this , proleague became bigger and bigger . and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more . its everyday , korea live with it everyday . with a large bigger media coverage than 5 - 6 years ago . 80% of the TV SC games in korea are now in SPL . so give it credit . im not making publicity stunt here , but i think you all are underrating the importance of SPL .
Preach on, brotha! PR writers have been F***ing with Sea and Leta for too long!!! I demand they be ranked #2 and #3 behind the almighty Bisu in the next PR to make up for all the injustice done to them in the name of "Starleague is also important". Sea in particular should always be automatic top 5 for continuing to win with such amazing practice partners as failhoon and hyun. But this is TL's PR. It has nothing to do with the Korean's perspective on the game.
ok i heard what i want . so TL doesnt want to see the game like koreans do . i think its a little stupid but whatever . SC is korea . SC is ALL about korea . for several years now . the highest level of SC has almost always been in korea . the competition is in korea . koreans know SC better than you can ever imagine . pretend to make some defensible power ranking with your own opinion of SC is completly stupid . you have to live in the reality . but i see you want to stay a special foreign community who see things as she want . its your liberty , your choice . i respect that . i just think its sad .
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On July 02 2011 22:57 Fwmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 22:26 vaMpYr wrote:On July 02 2011 21:50 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:bisu going 64 - 16 and 80% ratio is easily equivalent to 2 OSL/MSL titles . Ahahahah, ahahahahahaahahahasdlkfhsdklfalfh Oh my god, this is just so wrong. Holy crap. Okay, you know what, even though I think you're absolutely bonkers for saying this, I will argue from your standpoint. Bisu has totally accomplished 2 titles worth of work by going 64-16 in proleague. Bisu has acrued all of that since october of 2010. Now, you're streching pretty far back to give Bisu enough credit to be #1 on this rank. If you want to reach 8+ months back, I wonder what flash has? Oh, wow, he has an actual MSL! And 1 more month back and he has 2 MSLs and an OSL! Well, that's only 1 more title more than Bisu by your standards, but Bisu's still totally ahead of Flash, right? Oh, wait, no, Flash has gone 52-16 in PL. While this isn't nearly as good as what Bisu has done, flash also has three actual titles! I wonder how much 52-16 is worth? I mean, flash is 12 wins behind Bisu, how much is 12 wins worth? 1/3rd a title? So Flash has 1 2/3rds an OSL/MSL in PL, and, you know, three actual OSL/MSLs. During Bisu's PL streak, Flash has won as many titles as Bisu has in his whole career. Give me a break, if you want to bring up his damn overall PL stats for the past 8 months. no need to arouse yourself . flash is clearly better than bisu on the long term . i am talking only about june . in june bisu was better than flash , thats a fact . If you only are talking about June, let's talk about June. Bisu is 10-3 in all competitions in June, that is better than Flash. Jangbi is 21-2 in all competition in June, that is better than Bisu. That is also a fact. But normally, people look beyond the immediate history when making these rankings, which is why Bisu is above Jangbi, and why Flash is over Bisu.
and yes i already said it , i would almost put jangbi 1# this month . but i think bisu is mort realistic when you watch on pure level of game .
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On July 02 2011 23:52 vaMpYr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 23:39 mmdmmd wrote:On July 02 2011 22:50 baubo wrote:On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
proleague is here all year , everyday ( or almost ) . its continually a part of landscape of SC . it has become more and more important above the years , its not like it was years ago . the first big proleague was the MBC vs SKT grand final in 2006 where sea exploded to the world for the only time of his life . after this , proleague became bigger and bigger . and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more . its everyday , korea live with it everyday . with a large bigger media coverage than 5 - 6 years ago . 80% of the TV SC games in korea are now in SPL . so give it credit . im not making publicity stunt here , but i think you all are underrating the importance of SPL .
Preach on, brotha! PR writers have been F***ing with Sea and Leta for too long!!! I demand they be ranked #2 and #3 behind the almighty Bisu in the next PR to make up for all the injustice done to them in the name of "Starleague is also important". Sea in particular should always be automatic top 5 for continuing to win with such amazing practice partners as failhoon and hyun. But this is TL's PR. It has nothing to do with the Korean's perspective on the game. ok i heard what i want . so TL doesnt want to see the game like koreans do . i think its a little stupid but whatever . SC is korea . SC is ALL about korea . for several years now . the highest level of SC has almost always been in korea . the competition is in korea . koreans know SC better than you can ever imagine . pretend to make some defensible power ranking with your own opinion of SC is completly stupid . you have to live in the reality . but i see you want to stay a special foreign community who see things as she want . its your liberty , your choice . i respect that . i just think its sad .
Fine, I suggest you stop posting here then.
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On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more .
Wouldn't want to add fuel to the fire here, but i do want to know if koreans view PL > SL.
Just for clarity, the answer shouldn't affect the way TL does the PR, or any other individual ranking for that matter (i.e. Kespa rank). Even if PL > SL, since PL is a team league, it still shouldn't have more weight in an individual ranking.
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On July 03 2011 00:16 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
and now proleague is THE competition of SC . a korean's friend of me really confirmed that to me . OSL and MSL are not what it was in the early years , now its about PL . yes sure , OSL and MSL are still very important and very prestigious , but proleague is now more . Wouldn't want to add fuel to the fire here, but i do want to know if koreans view PL > SL. Just for clarity, the answer shouldn't affect the way TL does the PR, or any other individual ranking for that matter (i.e. Kespa rank). Even if PL > SL, since PL is a team league, it still shouldn't have more weight in an individual ranking.
Koreans see the individual leagues as better indicators of a player's skill than the proleagues. It is true that Koreans find proleagues to be much more EXCITING because of the atmosphere, sudden occurrences, etc, but most Koreans who are into BW all agree that individual leagues are much more important in displaying the 'power' of the player. And also, vaMpYr, your Korean friend is right in the idea that proleague is THE competition of SC because it is much more exciting to watch and it is fun for the general audience to watch, but in terms of showing power and dominance: No. Individual leagues are much more important.
Oh, and by your argument of how Bisu did amazing in June for PL so should be Number #1, then Jangbi should be automatically declared God and all should worship him.
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hi korean <3 !  . mm jangbi 2# is good , but he still can be declared better than bisu in june . i see your point about individual leagues for power and skill , and i can agree on some level , but what bisu did in proleague is absolutly monstruous and exeptional . its not just a " real big PL performance ". and its not just about his results . its about his games . he really played some spectacular SC . flash , JD or jangbi did not really .
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On July 02 2011 21:40 hns wrote:
How can a teamleague be more worth for the individual than an individual league?! No one argues about the overall importance of proleague here, yet the place to present yourself as a player against a stronger-growing competition is the individual league.
And that 2 OSL/MSL titles claim is hilarious.
This.
Proleague is probably more important than individual leagues. Good for them. But that still doesn't remove the fact that you face way stronger opponents when you advance in individuals than team leagues. So Bisu lost in the OFFLINE PRELIMS, where the competition is at it's lowest.
I keep my opinion about Jangbi being #1 followed by Flash or Jaedong.
And I'll requote that.
On July 02 2011 21:40 hns wrote:
And that 2 OSL/MSL titles claim is hilarious.
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On July 03 2011 00:54 vaMpYr wrote:hi korean <3 ! . mm jangbi 2# is good , but he still can be declared better than bisu in june . i see your point about individual leagues for power and skill , and i can agree on some level , but what bisu did in proleague is absolutly monstruous and exeptional . its not just a " real big PL performance ". and its not just about his results . its about his games . he really played some spectacular SC . flash , JD or jangbi did not really .
The only notable opponent Bisu has beaten this month is Baby. And Bisu has lost against roro and hyvaa in his best matchup. Seriously, check the recent match history of Bisu and you'll see. He has beaten a lot of mediocre opponents.
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I'm totally enjoying the comments here hahaha.
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EPT
