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I just gave you a reason. He won the MSL by humiliating two great zergs 6-0, one of which you said would beat him in a Bo5. Sorry, Flash is more than just the amount of actions his wrist can put out. His wrist problem was every bit as existent during that MSL run and he proved that he could not only win, but utterly dominate his opposition in spite of it through pure strategy.
Flamewheel gave you plenty: As far as he was concerned, Flash was unbeatable in his MSL win this month. That's more important than anyone else's handful of proleague games.
On July 02 2011 02:54 Mortality wrote:
In fairness, Stork and Kal are in pretty ugly slumps and Sea isn't as strong at TvZ right now as he was a year ago.
But as I said, it seems I only ever watch Hoejja when he loses which is why I'm not really on the train. I didn't watch most of those games.
That's great I guess, I guess you're just agreeing with me then, since you said what I did? That aside, just go watch em, they were, honest to goodness, really good games. Particularly the one vs Horang2!
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On July 02 2011 03:11 DarkOptik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 23:35 shucklesors wrote:On July 01 2011 23:20 DarkOptik wrote:
Can you please put some more effort into Flash next time? This is pretty dumb: he may be the OSL winner, but that's the only meaningful thing he did ALL of June. His only two other wins are due to the caliber of his opponents, and he lost to every player that's considered A-level (Bogus is arguable). Now that he's going to be taking a break for probably most of July you would think there has to be more rationale for him to be number one. Posting his achievements list is a massive cop-out when he's clearly not the same Flash that won all those OSL/MSLs, and at the moment he will surely lose to Jaedong/Hydra/Bisu in a Bo5. Flash won't meet Bisu because he's getting seeded every SL except the recent 2, while Bisu can't pass the prelims + Show Spoiler + Is this 4chan or something? Why am I getting "umad?" posts? Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 00:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 01 2011 23:20 DarkOptik wrote:
Can you please put some more effort into Flash next time? This is pretty dumb: he may be the OSL winner, but that's the only meaningful thing he did ALL of June. His only two other wins are due to the caliber of his opponents, and he lost to every player that's considered A-level (Bogus is arguable). Now that he's going to be taking a break for probably most of July you would think there has to be more rationale for him to be number one. Posting his achievements list is a massive cop-out when he's clearly not the same Flash that won all those OSL/MSLs, and at the moment he will surely lose to Jaedong/Hydra/Bisu in a Bo5. I love that we just saw Flash completely embarrass Hydra and Zero with preparation, and Bisu get knocked out in prelims, and you're insinuating that Flash would drop a Bo5 to them. How disingenuous. Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 00:49 Iplaythings wrote:On July 02 2011 00:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 01 2011 23:20 DarkOptik wrote:
Can you please put some more effort into Flash next time? This is pretty dumb: he may be the OSL winner, but that's the only meaningful thing he did ALL of June. His only two other wins are due to the caliber of his opponents, and he lost to every player that's considered A-level (Bogus is arguable). Now that he's going to be taking a break for probably most of July you would think there has to be more rationale for him to be number one. Posting his achievements list is a massive cop-out when he's clearly not the same Flash that won all those OSL/MSLs, and at the moment he will surely lose to Jaedong/Hydra/Bisu in a Bo5. I love that we just saw Flash completely embarrass Hydra and Zero with preparation, and Bisu get knocked out in prelims, and you're insinuating that Flash would drop a Bo5 to them. How disingenuous. he aint even mentioning the right league he won ^^ You guys actually think he's playing well right now? Well, that's fine I guess, as that's your opinion. From my perspective, I look at the actual games he's played since his MSL (You're right, I fucked up), and they haven't been all that great to me: he's clearly not the same player he was even four weeks ago. I'm under the impression that Flash with a wrist injury is going to get destroyed, like he currently is in the Proleague. You think not, but that's fine, it's not a big deal to have a difference in opinion. Starcraft is largely subjective. What I'm bitching about is for a better write-up for why Flash remains number one despite his recent failures in Proleague and injury, rather than an screenshot of his TLPD page that shows all his past achievements which is entirely irrelevant to this month's PR, a joke to his friend 343, and thinly-veiled insults to those who disagree with Flash's #1 ranking. But I guess "Imad" or "soserious" or something along those lines.
I just spent twenty minutes typing up a response to you, but then decided that it wasn't worth it. Look mate, I can accept criticism, but I don't particularly care for "bitching".
I've read your past PR comment from the 12/15/10 Power Rank, and you seem to think that all relevant data that should factor into the ranking should come exclusively from the month in question. That's not the case here, since artificially limiting data leads to a myopic and inconclusive viewpoint.
Take another look at the picture. That's not just "showing all his past achievements", and it's certainly relevant to this month's Power Rank. With the most recent MSL concluded, Flash has won five out of the last nine Starleagues and taken silver in two of the other four. In a more sensationally extrapolating tone, that means he's reached the finals of 7/9 of the most recent Starleagues. He's tied NaDa, considered the "Greatest Of All Time", in medal count with the ABCMart MSL gold.
And you want to ignore that because of the arbitrary cutoff line?
I guess you got your write-up after all.
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flamewheel you just seem like a faggoty flash fanboy i swear LOL i thought power rank was for performance every month and if so flash hasnt been playing so AMAZINGLY that he deserves the no. 1 spot again. srsly wtf is "Get better, man" TOTAL FAVORITISM IN POWER RANK I SWEAR NO POINT IN READING THIS BULLSHIT.
User was banned for this post.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 02 2011 03:11 DarkOptik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2011 23:35 shucklesors wrote:On July 01 2011 23:20 DarkOptik wrote:
Can you please put some more effort into Flash next time? This is pretty dumb: he may be the OSL winner, but that's the only meaningful thing he did ALL of June. His only two other wins are due to the caliber of his opponents, and he lost to every player that's considered A-level (Bogus is arguable). Now that he's going to be taking a break for probably most of July you would think there has to be more rationale for him to be number one. Posting his achievements list is a massive cop-out when he's clearly not the same Flash that won all those OSL/MSLs, and at the moment he will surely lose to Jaedong/Hydra/Bisu in a Bo5. Flash won't meet Bisu because he's getting seeded every SL except the recent 2, while Bisu can't pass the prelims + Show Spoiler + Is this 4chan or something? Why am I getting "umad?" posts? Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 00:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 01 2011 23:20 DarkOptik wrote:
Can you please put some more effort into Flash next time? This is pretty dumb: he may be the OSL winner, but that's the only meaningful thing he did ALL of June. His only two other wins are due to the caliber of his opponents, and he lost to every player that's considered A-level (Bogus is arguable). Now that he's going to be taking a break for probably most of July you would think there has to be more rationale for him to be number one. Posting his achievements list is a massive cop-out when he's clearly not the same Flash that won all those OSL/MSLs, and at the moment he will surely lose to Jaedong/Hydra/Bisu in a Bo5. I love that we just saw Flash completely embarrass Hydra and Zero with preparation, and Bisu get knocked out in prelims, and you're insinuating that Flash would drop a Bo5 to them. How disingenuous. Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 00:49 Iplaythings wrote:On July 02 2011 00:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:On July 01 2011 23:20 DarkOptik wrote:
Can you please put some more effort into Flash next time? This is pretty dumb: he may be the OSL winner, but that's the only meaningful thing he did ALL of June. His only two other wins are due to the caliber of his opponents, and he lost to every player that's considered A-level (Bogus is arguable). Now that he's going to be taking a break for probably most of July you would think there has to be more rationale for him to be number one. Posting his achievements list is a massive cop-out when he's clearly not the same Flash that won all those OSL/MSLs, and at the moment he will surely lose to Jaedong/Hydra/Bisu in a Bo5. I love that we just saw Flash completely embarrass Hydra and Zero with preparation, and Bisu get knocked out in prelims, and you're insinuating that Flash would drop a Bo5 to them. How disingenuous. he aint even mentioning the right league he won ^^ You guys actually think he's playing well right now? Well, that's fine I guess, as that's your opinion. From my perspective, I look at the actual games he's played since his MSL (You're right, I fucked up), and they haven't been all that great to me: he's clearly not the same player he was even four weeks ago. I'm under the impression that Flash with a wrist injury is going to get destroyed, like he currently is in the Proleague. You think not, but that's fine, it's not a big deal to have a difference in opinion. Starcraft is largely subjective. What I'm bitching about is for a better write-up for why Flash remains number one despite his recent failures in Proleague and injury, rather than an screenshot of his TLPD page that shows all his past achievements which is entirely irrelevant to this month's PR, a joke to his friend 343, and thinly-veiled insults to those who disagree with Flash's #1 ranking. But I guess "Imad" or "soserious" or something along those lines.
Flash went 6-0 in MSL against Hydra, the former champion, and Zero and then he destroyed Hyun and Bogus with ease despite the pain he felt, and Jaedong himself said that Flash played extremely well in the winners game, and that the spawning position played against Flash.
And as far as I know Flash will keep playing in OSL, MSL and SPL play-offs. So, hurt and all, I think Flash is still scary.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 02 2011 03:45 johnisnub wrote:
flamewheel you just seem like a faggoty flash fanboy i swear LOL i thought power rank was for performance every month and if so flash hasnt been playing so AMAZINGLY that he deserves the no. 1 spot again. srsly wtf is "Get better, man" TOTAL FAVORITISM IN POWER RANK I SWEAR NO POINT IN READING THIS BULLSHIT.
If Jaedong or Bisu or any other awesome progamer were injured, we would all want them to get better, because they can show like no other the beauty within this wonderful game. It's just delightful to watch them play.
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On July 02 2011 03:45 johnisnub wrote:
flamewheel you just seem like a faggoty flash fanboy i swear LOL i thought power rank was for performance every month and if so flash hasnt been playing so AMAZINGLY that he deserves the no. 1 spot again. srsly wtf is "Get better, man" TOTAL FAVORITISM IN POWER RANK I SWEAR NO POINT IN READING THIS BULLSHIT.
Looks like someone's getting banned. =)
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i dont post really often of TL because i would have so many disagree about the game itself with maybe almost everybody ( do not misunderstand , i love TL more than my life :p ) , and i dont like to get angry , to troll or something . and i dont want to disturbe anyone .
but anyway , i really want to understand something .
what power rank is about ?
- the best player RIGHT NOW ?
- the best player for the last 3 months ?
- the most legendary player ?
- the most deserving player ?
- the most cute ?
power rank is a really intresting idea by itself , but i usually really dont understand power ranks on TL . your choices seems to be way too subjective . you choose to get bisu down because you dont accept he lose in indiv. leagues . you dont like when monster players keep losing in indiv .leagues ? i can get that . but it must not influence your ranking . i really dont want to be annoying or something , but there is really really objectivity missing here . i know yellow is a legend and what he brought to bw ( im fully in bw since 1999 ) , but i really dont see any reason he would be here . if you want to honor him , create some great article , some great highligh VOD or what you want . there is many possibilities . but your PR is just nonsense . have you ever seen bjorn borg , steffi graff or monica seles on top 10 ATP/WTA just for honnor ? its just nonsense . its about competition here . not about honnor or legend . and kindness , indulgence or honnoring have nothing to do with . i dont pretend to be the pro of PR , but flash 1# is a joke ( i dont care about his injury , thats sports ) , bisu not 1# is an even bigger joke , and yellow on PR is a nonsense .
maybe you dont have the same idea than me for PR , maybe you dont see it with the same seriousness as me , but if in fact you do , i think its time to grow up and work on PR more about objectivity and reality and less about feelings .
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On July 02 2011 03:45 johnisnub wrote:
flamewheel you just seem like a faggoty flash fanboy i swear LOL i thought power rank was for performance every month and if so flash hasnt been playing so AMAZINGLY that he deserves the no. 1 spot again. srsly wtf is "Get better, man" TOTAL FAVORITISM IN POWER RANK I SWEAR NO POINT IN READING THIS BULLSHIT.
Hello GG.NoRe
edit: I know this probably isn't ggnore but I like to pretend every completely shitty anti-flash post is him nowadays.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
It's amazing for a community with so many intelligent people, there are people like you guys that roam amongst them. Seriously, you anti-Flash peeps need to shut the fuck up and learn.
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On July 02 2011 03:57 vaMpYr wrote:
you choose to get bisu down because you dont accept he lose in indiv. leagues . you dont like when monster players keep losing in indiv .leagues ? i can get that . but it must not influence your ranking .
Why musn't that influence the ranking? O_o Success in the individual leagues has always been an extremely important factor in the PR.
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@T^3: not really agreeing or disagreeing. Since I didn't watch the games I can't comment on them other than to say that I would have been more impressed if he had stomped that line-up 6 months ago when Stork and Kal were hot and Sea was still top 5 TvZ. A number of people are talking about how awesome he played so I'll accept that he is worthy of low PR/CBNC.
@Flamewheel: apparently 30-40% of the people who post in these threads are under the delusion that BW is secretly a code word for SC2 and that OSL and MSL run on monthly schedules like GSL.
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On July 02 2011 03:57 vaMpYr wrote:
...but anyway , i really want to understand something .
what power rank is about ?
- the best player RIGHT NOW ?
- the best player for the last 3 months ?
- the most legendary player ?
- the most deserving player ?
- the most cute ?
power rank is a really intresting idea by itself , but i usually really dont understand power ranks on TL . your choices seems to be way too subjective ... there is really really objectivity missing here . i know yellow is a legend and what he brought to bw ( im fully in bw since 1999 ) , but i really dont see any reason he would be here ... but your PR is just nonsense.
...maybe you dont have the same idea than me for PR , maybe you dont see it with the same seriousness as me , but if in fact you do , i think its time to grow up and work on PR more about objectivity and reality and less about feelings.
Look at the scene for a moment. Korean professional BroodWar has three major competitions, the OSL, MSL, and SPL. Suppose three players win each title (for the sake of argument, let's say Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu respectively). Which is the most important?
OSL and MSL are approximately equal accomplishments, although both leagues have their supporters and detractors. But usually - excepting really unusual performances like fantasy beating JD three times in a row in '09 - winning either (or even making finals) is "bigger" than an SPL title, because SPL needs a team to win.
But even that has some disagreement, and if (for example during WL finals) one player does amazing in playoffs while failing in leagues, but both leagues are floating around in the Ro16/Ro8 area, while another player missed playoffs but dominates his opponents there, who's better?
In other words, PR is supposed to be a representative of who the "best" players are at any given point, but unlike ELO, KeSPA rank, or other possible ranks with mathematical justification, it's intentionally not completely objective. It's usually pretty close and at least fairly reasonable (the worst I can think of was Flash getting left off a while back by JWD for no really clear good reason), but two people's ideas are never going to be exactly the same.
As far as past history, every commenter (and most PR writers) disagree about what exactly should be weighted how much. Usually the month's performance gets the most weight, while former (especially recent and/or multiple) starleague winners and finalists get cut the most slack.
On July 02 2011 03:57 vaMpYr wrote:
...i dont pretend to be the pro of PR , but flash 1# is a joke ( i dont care about his injury , thats sports ) , bisu not 1# is an even bigger joke , and yellow on PR is a nonsense .
Flash #1 is entirely defensible, on the strength of a Starleague win over an S-class player (hey, I like ZerO). In fact, the only other possible options are Bisu and Jaedong (better PR performance/beating Flash reliably), and neither of them have the Starleague accomplishments, at least this month.
As for YellOw - see the notes on "subjective" above.
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nice rankings (especially yellow  ). Hopefully, Bisu is able to make it farther than Ro32 next MSL <_<
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On July 02 2011 04:10 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 03:57 vaMpYr wrote:
you choose to get bisu down because you dont accept he lose in indiv. leagues . you dont like when monster players keep losing in indiv .leagues ? i can get that . but it must not influence your ranking . Why musn't that influence the ranking? O_o Success in the individual leagues has always been an extremely important factor in the PR.
Because you can't call someone "the hottest player in progaming" if they can't do well in individual leagues. That just does not make sense.
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Yellow T_T
I'm liking HoeJJa being on the PR, definitely deserves it ^^
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The power rank currently has an image of Flash raping Starcraft Finals the past two years, followed by a short blurb about hating on anyone that disagrees with Flash #1, and that's appropriate for description for this month's PR #1.
If everyone else is okay with that, there's not much for me to say then.
As for flamewheel:
What I said first, "Can you please make a more comprehensive post about why Flash is #1? From my perspective, he hasn't put up significant results after his MSL win, and injury isn't going to make that much better."
What you said:
I can accept criticism, but I don't particularly care for "bitching"
Are. you. serious. How can what I said in any way be construed not as "criticism"? Look, you can disregard anything and everything I said, but you cannot deny that "can you please put more effort into writing Flash for #1" is criticism.
What do you have for PR#1 purely in terms of content? You have an image detailing Flash's dominating past three years, and a one liner about how people shouldn't complain due about recent results.
Give me a fucking break here. Am I so completely wrong for wanting a more comprehensive write-up? How am I "bitching" (by your definition) for asking you to write more more than a line and posting an image with no explanation other than arrows and an emoticon that shows absolutely nothing at all?
Whatever. Apparently I'm a huge fucking asshole who complained, so I should rightly be slapped around by fish.
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No, you just stupidly said Hydra and Bisu would beat Flash in a Bo5 when Bisu isn't even in either tournament yet and Flash just got done making Hydra look like an amateur. The only play who could have a reasonable shot at topping Flash on this list is Jaedong for having Flash's number recently, and even he had a really bad start to the month. Flash had a really bad end of the month. It's all relative, Flash's good just happened to coincide winning an MSL that Jaedong didn't.
Bisu will never, ever, ever be #1 after falling out of prelims so don't even bring that one up.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On July 02 2011 03:11 DarkOptik wrote:
...
What I'm bitching about is
...
And apparently you've never read anything by Scott Adams, I guess.
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Okay, ignore everything else I say and write a snarky one-liner.
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On July 02 2011 04:33 DarkOptik wrote:
Okay, ignore everything else I say
But you make the things you say so easy to ignore!
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On July 02 2011 04:28 TwoToneTerran wrote:
No, you just stupidly said Hydra and Bisu would beat Flash in a Bo5 when Bisu isn't even in either tournament yet and Flash just got done making Hydra look like an amateur. The only play who could have a reasonable shot at topping Flash on this list is Jaedong for having Flash's number recently, and even he had a really bad start to the month. Flash had a really bad end of the month. It's all relative, Flash's good just happened to coincide winning an MSL that Jaedong didn't.
Bisu will never, ever, ever be #1 after falling out of prelims so don't even bring that one up.
Right on, so maybe he could have written that. I think that's all this guy is asking for.
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EPT
