On May 09 2011 11:14 nbaker wrote: Agree with Jaedong number 1, but Bisu over Flash??
Ok, I admit Flash had some random losses, but Bisu's only big wins were at the very beginning of the month. Since then, he's been consistent, but he hasn't beaten any good players and he got whipped by Flash in two games (second one wasn't that close--when was Flash in danger of losing?).
Who would you pick to win head to head? Flash. Who would you pick to win a starleague? Flash. Who would you rather have as your team's ace? It's arguable, but I'd sure pick Flash.
Flash also did just lose to Much this week. Bisu has been playing so beautiful and so consistently in SPL for months on end, and he's probably one of the best people right now to challenge JD in a best-of series.
I can't argue with the Much thing, but I think it's wrong to say Bisu is more favored to beat Jaedong than Flash. How many times has Bisu beaten Jaedong in a bo5? How many times has Flash beaten him in a bo5? Bisu beat Jaedong before Jaedong caught fire and Flash beat Jaedong before that as well.
While I am most pleasantly surprised that Bisu is second (I honestly thought he would be 3rd given him dropping out of the Group of Death), I can't help but feel that if this Power Rank was released earlier then Flash would probably be 2nd.
On May 09 2011 09:58 Eywa- wrote: yeah, I think the first 3 are correct but mind too high, soulkey too high(he lost to leta), Stork had some huge games against Hydra, dunno why Hydra is above him... Also, how can fantasy not be on there? Iris? Zero? Movie? Don't think any of these are better than Fantasy. Not that I like Fantasy, just seems like you didn't consider every player before making it.
Zero and Hydra both looked sharper than Stork and Fanta. Movie has been up and down lately but this past month pretty up. Iris is the debatable one since he played a weaker line-up and dodged his worst MU.
PR isn't just about skill but also momentum, and results, which Stork and Fanta have totally lacked. But even by skill... Stork has had some shitty games lately and Fanta has just not played good enough on too many occasions.
Of course which means it should be whoever you fear to play more, Flash would prob be 3rd since Bisu/Jaedong haven't been giving up random wins. I mean Fantasy played extremely well last night winning 2 games for SKT's comeback against Khan. Don't see what you mean by him not playing sharp. Would players fear Stork/Fantasy more that Soulkey, I think so. + Stork beat Hydra in a best of 3 so I don't know how Hydra looks any sharper.
Errrr... what?
The argument of fear I can understand and respect, but if we're talking fear, then TBLS + Fanta should be top 5 every month no matter how many losses they take. Even if Flash loses his next 20 games in a row he will still be one of the most feared players on the planet. That's just the reality. One or two or three months of bad play does not erase years of dominance.
PR is more dynamic than that and it is that dynamic element that caught Stork and Fanta. I like the fear argument when trying to decide between two players who are comparable, but Stork and Fanta have not played comparably well with those above them.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, Stork (6-6) is out of MSL and dropped the ball hard several times last month at least a couple times making fundamental mistakes. I hate to say it, but Stork deserved to drop below 2200 ELO (which he did) with the way he played. Fantasy's record last month (5-6, was 3-6 up until last night) doesn't entirely do him justice because he's been playing pretty well... but in his losses he's been solidly out-played.
On May 09 2011 11:27 nbaker wrote: I can't argue with the Much thing, but I think it's wrong to say Bisu is more favored to beat Jaedong than Flash. How many times has Bisu beaten Jaedong in a bo5? How many times has Flash beaten him in a bo5? Bisu beat Jaedong before Jaedong caught fire and Flash beat Jaedong before that as well.
Considering their recent matches and current states of play I see Bisu beating JD in a bo5 convincingly, but I'm not to sure about Flash doing so.
On May 09 2011 11:27 nbaker wrote: I can't argue with the Much thing, but I think it's wrong to say Bisu is more favored to beat Jaedong than Flash. How many times has Bisu beaten Jaedong in a bo5? How many times has Flash beaten him in a bo5? Bisu beat Jaedong before Jaedong caught fire and Flash beat Jaedong before that as well.
Bisu and JD haven't met in a bo5 in a long, long time and it was a tense 3-2 in JD's favor in a non-standard league event.
JD has won his last two encounters with Flash, both this past month. He's only won 1 of his last 7 encounters against Bisu (all encounters since 1/1/2009), 1-1 in his last 2.
I think Flash is a better player than Bisu, but right now Bisu seems to have JD's number well and truly figured out. However, even though I think Flash is the better player, I agree with the ranking. Flash has been dropping more games (8-6 since April 1) than you expect Flash to drop and unlike the situation in June of last year, he's not coming fresh off an MSL gold medal.
For the first time in a long time, Flash has something to prove.
Aaaaand the world just got a little bit better. I was going to post how upset I was at having to wait this long, as it has been May for a while now, but I just remembered that I paid rent today, 8 days late. So, I guess it's cool. Thanks flamewheel
I'd say Bisu would have a pretty good chance of taking down JD in a PL game. Probably just as good as Flash. However, he has proved NOTHING in Starleagues and BoX's for a ridiculously long time.
I'm just shocked Mind is up there so high. Wasn't expecting that at all, though I suppose it is possible to say that the others didn't perform as well...
On May 09 2011 11:27 nbaker wrote: I can't argue with the Much thing, but I think it's wrong to say Bisu is more favored to beat Jaedong than Flash. How many times has Bisu beaten Jaedong in a bo5? How many times has Flash beaten him in a bo5? Bisu beat Jaedong before Jaedong caught fire and Flash beat Jaedong before that as well.
Bisu and JD haven't met in a bo5 in a long, long time and it was a tense 3-2 in JD's favor in a non-standard league event.
JD has won his last two encounters with Flash, both this past month. He's only won 1 of his last 7 encounters against Bisu (all encounters since 1/1/2009), 1-1 in his last 2.
I think Flash is a better player than Bisu, but right now Bisu seems to have JD's number well and truly figured out. However, even though I think Flash is the better player, I agree with the ranking. Flash has been dropping more games (8-6 since April 1) than you expect Flash to drop and unlike the situation in June of last year, he's not coming fresh off an MSL gold medal.
For the first time in a long time, Flash has something to prove.
I almost always agree with you Mortality, but I don't think its time to say Flash has something to prove...not just yet anyway. Flash has yet to lose a Bo5 (or Bo3 unless you count WCG) since Effort pulled off that sick comeback in KA OSL S1. And though Flash has been dropping games more than usual, I remember him dropping games in relatively the same number back during his ace curse before the Bigfile finals.
If anyone has something to prove this season, it's JD, because PDPop was supposed to be his win (and we all know he didn't get it), and now there's a pretty good chance that he meets Flash in the finals yet again. Jaedong's road to the finals (and hopefully a 6th SL) will be:
1) Proving that his ZvP isn't as shaky as his record indicates. I know it's against Grape, but he has Stork as a practice partner (and Stork always plays JD well) and Jaedong has not ZvP'd since he played Bisu in the WL playoffs. 2) Proving that his ZvZ can be dominant again, against Calm, who I think has ZvZ'd his way into the Ro8. (It could be ZerO, but I just really don't see it happening). 3) Proving his ZvT can win him a Bo5 (probably against Flash). I don't see Hydra's ZvT winning him 2 Bo5's T_T
I know you didn't say Jaedong didn't have anything to prove and truthfully I kinda used your post to throw it out there
But honestly, I know Flash is looking shaky, but I just don't think Flash is at the point of having something to prove. I think if he drops a Bo5 series this MSL, then he will have something to prove next season. Just not now ^^
Very good rank, I have a few small disagreements but overall it is a good rank and well written. JD at #1 is for sure, he is definitely looking like the tyrant again.
I personally would put Flash at #2 and Bisu #3 but either order is justifiable (Flash's loss to Much makes my position a more difficult to justify however).
Mind I agree with at #4, he has been looking just plain fucking good recently and definitely deserves such a high position. #5-#8 are all pretty even in my opinion so any ordering of them is fine by me.
#9 and #10 are really tough to pick this month and your picks are just as good as anyone I would put in those positions (I think I would put Light and FBH in those spots but everyone on CNBC and Movie/Iris are totally justifiable).
2011 is Jaedongs year of dominance. Hope you enjoyed your run flash :D.
I am hoping thats true anyway . It really is great too see jaedong playing so solid right now. I know in 2010 when he was losing to flash it seemed even against other terrans he was struggling a lot. He kept doing lots of greedy stuff that cost him a lot of games.
Really hoping he keeps this and this isn't just a good month, hope it goes into a good year and hope he beats Nada's record :D
On May 09 2011 12:18 Holgerius wrote: I'd say Bisu would have a pretty good chance of taking down JD in a PL game. Probably just as good as Flash. However, he has proved NOTHING in Starleagues and BoX's for a ridiculously long time.
funny, since part of Bisu's strengths used to be his series play, whereas he was more likely to randomly drop single games (back when he was not as godly in PL). Seems to have been reversed TT
On May 09 2011 12:18 Holgerius wrote: I'd say Bisu would have a pretty good chance of taking down JD in a PL game. Probably just as good as Flash. However, he has proved NOTHING in Starleagues and BoX's for a ridiculously long time.
funny, since part of Bisu's strengths used to be his series play, whereas he was more likely to randomly drop single games (back when he was not as godly in PL). Seems to have been reversed TT
Difference between SKT1 and MBC is how much they focus on PL. Funny though, since the last time an MBC player was in a finals was Bisu iirc
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/R1CH/Happy2.gif)
. It really is great too see jaedong playing so solid right now. I know in 2010 when he was losing to flash it seemed even against other terrans he was struggling a lot. He kept doing lots of greedy stuff that cost him a lot of games.
