PR-wise there's no chance of that happening. Since the last PR, he lost most of his SPL games [1], and then lost to zero in the MSL. I don't even think he'll be a top 5 candidate.

As for his KeSPA rank, even if he gets #1 for 1 more month (2,353.5 last month, Flash at 2,255.3), he is almost certain to drop the following month.

Hikari

1914 Posts

May 30 2011 22:52 GMT

#447

Sad to see JD performing so poorly this month.
I await to see who flamewheel will place the curse upon next.

Holgerius

Sweden16951 Posts

May 30 2011 22:58 GMT

#448

As long as Flash wins vs Hydra there is no way in hell anyone can threaten him for the #1 spot.

Xiphos

Canada7507 Posts

May 30 2011 23:36 GMT

#449

On May 31 2011 07:58 Holgerius wrote:
As long as Flash wins vs Hydra there is no way in hell anyone can threaten him for the #1 spot.

ZerO will take that challenge!

bearbuddy

3442 Posts

May 30 2011 23:50 GMT

#450

On May 31 2011 06:51 Xiphos wrote:
I think doing it right now instead of waiting for Flash and Hydra going at it is the best because it stands true to its "May Ranking"

To be fair though, the first week of may is sorta incorporated into the current ranking.

jpak

United States5045 Posts

May 31 2011 00:26 GMT

#451

On May 31 2011 08:36 Xiphos wrote:

Show nested quote +

ZerO will take that challenge!

ZerO would be at LEAST #2 if not #1.

Whoever wins Flash vs Hydra could be the other contender for #1 spot, depending on how the games go.

Yongtaek would probably be #3.

hacklebeast

United States5090 Posts

May 31 2011 00:51 GMT

#452

Zero shouldn't be top 2. Whoever wins the other semi finals will be looking much better. If Flash wins, je is a much better player, with a more impressive slate of games, and better wins. If hydra wins, It would be an accomplishment more impressive than beating current JD, and again has a much better slate of games outside of that.

As for Bisu vs Zero: Zero's month has been a lot of ZvZs, and not much else. The wins over JD and Bisu are very nice, but he lost to some bad opponents: calm twice*, Jaehoon, soo, and action*. His large number of wins Isn't because he is on an eath-shattering tear, it's just because he has played a lot of games. Playing a lot of games can set you up for a high spot on the PR, but it isn't justification alone.

And as for the "power" argument: I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who honestly thinks zero can beat Bisu in a Bo5. I would root for zero in such a series, but I'm liqibeting bisu.

I'm thinking zero should be 3, possibly 4 if flash loses 2-3.

*in ZvZs, not terribly good MUs for either of them

jpak

United States5045 Posts

May 31 2011 01:51 GMT

#453

On May 31 2011 09:51 hacklebeast wrote:
Zero shouldn't be top 2. Whoever wins the other semi finals will be looking much better. If Flash wins, je is a much better player, with a more impressive slate of games, and better wins. If hydra wins, It would be an accomplishment more impressive than beating current JD, and again has a much better slate of games outside of that.

As for Bisu vs Zero: Zero's month has been a lot of ZvZs, and not much else. The wins over JD and Bisu are very nice, but he lost to some bad opponents: calm twice*, Jaehoon, soo, and action*. His large number of wins Isn't because he is on an eath-shattering tear, it's just because he has played a lot of games. Playing a lot of games can set you up for a high spot on the PR, but it isn't justification alone.

And as for the "power" argument: I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who honestly thinks zero can beat Bisu in a Bo5. I would root for zero in such a series, but I'm liqibeting bisu.

I'm thinking zero should be 3, possibly 4 if flash loses 2-3.

*in ZvZs, not terribly good MUs for either of them

First of all, I downgrade any losses that Zero lost against Clam and Jaedong because he ultimately won the Bo5.

People should not downplay Zero's games just because they're ZvZ. In fact, the fact that he won 3 ZvZ series in a row to reach the MSL finals shows that he overcame his weakness of ZvZ, particularly against JD, who he was 4-11 against lifetime prior to the series. I thought Shark at least showed that ZvZ is a legitimate matchup that should not be degraded just because it's ZvZ.

That being said, I think Zero's the only zerg who has a good shot against Bisu in a Bo5... but what's the use of theorizing if Bisu can't go up in individual leagues? I think we all know his individual league woes for a while now, and I don't see any reason that should change anytime soon. Don't say it was Flash. Bisu had a legitimate chance to win against Flash and advance TWICE and failed to capitalize (especially first game: Failed 8rax anyone?). In other words, he choked. /rant

And to those who say hydra Kwanrolled his ZvTs: Did you watch his games vs Mind? Besides, the fact that you did that and won with it makes the opponent account for that kind of play, even Flash. And he only did that on Monte Cristo.

hacklebeast

United States5090 Posts

May 31 2011 02:26 GMT

#454

So ignore the fact he played almost exclusively ZvZ. He still lost to a bunch of bad people.

And the point of saying Bisu is a straight up better player than zero is that the PR has had a long history of requiring A players to have far better records than S players to pass them. Bisu (along with Flash and JD) are clearly in a different class than zero. Inevitably some A players will pass JD, but they will have far better records. If just another player had a sub .500 month they probaly wouldn't be on the PR, much less the 4-7 region that people hAve been talking about for him.

TLDR Because Bisu is S class, he doesn't necessarily need to have a better record than zero to be ahead of him (although I think he does)

]343[

United States10328 Posts

May 31 2011 05:11 GMT

#455

personally I think Zero winning ZvZs is more impressive than him winning in other matchups, precisely because he's by far weakest in ZvZ--who else other than JD has beaten both Flash and Bisu (the best vZ; luckily Zero doesn't really have to deal with light much anymore lol) recently, and stands at least a 40% or so chance against them? (and even JD Is looking weak vs Bisu...) He had to overcome his weak point to get to the finals. (Also the last and only two Zergs to beat JD in Ro4 ended up winning ZvZ finals.... let's hope that [at least the ZvZ part] doesn't happen??)

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

May 31 2011 06:54 GMT

#456

My thought on ZvZ has always been that what matters isn't so much "can you win this specific game" but "what's your average over 10 games look like." I know that's sort of true in any match-up because this is a game of limited information and even if you had full information you could still make a mistake. But in ZvZ that information is much more limited. On your typical map -- especially 4 player maps -- you are 100% guaranteed already locked into your build before you have a chance to scout your opponent. It wasn't until Jaedong that mastery of adjusting the strategy you are locked into to deal with your opponent's strategy came about, and even then, that's in part due to the evolution in ZvZ builds and strategies that was occurring thanks to players like Savior during the 2005-2006 period.

So I am impressed with Zero that he did what he did, and all the more impressed considering it's his weakest match-up. As far as I'm concerned, we will learn who the #2 Zerg is depending on how Hydra does vs Flash (note: Hydra doesn't have to win the series to prove he's #2, but he at least has to give Flash a tough run). And no, I don't consider Soulkey the #2 Zerg.

As for Bisu vs Zero, I'm not really against either being ahead. If Zero were taking the gold during this PR period it would be different. As impressive as making the final is, that last step is a crucial one. I think Zero's play has been really impressive lately and that his results haven't always done justice to his skill (I've been saying that for how many months now?). He's wow'd me many times this year. And he's done it against every member of TBLS. By contrast, Bisu is more consistent, but he's failed to really wow me against Flash or Stork, only against Jaedong. His one win against Flash was solid, but it didn't wow me.

And I do think Zero would have a good shot at Bisu in bo5. Zero has historically been strong against Bisu. QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSS. lol

tedster

984 Posts

May 31 2011 18:57 GMT

#457

On May 31 2011 07:23 Devise wrote:
hopefully Jaedong retains his #1 spot!

That is completely impossible. JD should not even have made it past Reality (he sucked out in game 3 when reality forgot how to make bunkers/walls vs. 1base tier 1 Zerg). He has been outplayed this month in both his series, and has done virtually nothing to warrant a top slot. JD looked great in April but absolutely did not look up to form in May.

Players who have looked better overall:
Flash
Zero
Hydra
Soulkey
Bisu (probably)
Movie (strange to see him back)