• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:47
CET 11:47
KST 19:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool39Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
U4GM Tips Counter Enemy Gadgets Fast in Black Ops rsvsr How to Keep Reward Chains Rolling in Monopol u4gm What to Do First in MLB The Show 26 Spring
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5470 users

Power Rank 05/09/2011 - Page 19

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 25 Next All
L0thar
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
987 Posts
May 26 2011 16:57 GMT
#361
That's entirely possible and I'd personaly love to see Bisu PvZ in later stages of some tournament. One of the most beautiful match ups, it's a shame he was forced to double PvT with Flash.

However he did meat Flash and he was eliminated. Speculation about what would happen if he didn't are pointless. At the end of the day, there are people in MSL finals and people who has to settle for PL.

Bisu ranking should not be based on some imaginary wins in MSL which he doesn't have.
HopLight
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden999 Posts
May 26 2011 17:19 GMT
#362
On May 27 2011 01:01 Dakkas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2011 22:37 L0thar wrote:
Sorry, but If you can't tell the difference between "being MSL finalist" and "won a game, still get eliminated form the MSL" by yourself, I probably won't be able to explain it either way.


You can explain it by being in a group with the 2 best players in the world. Not getting further into the MSL is not a negative on Bisu's list because it's entirely possible Flash or Jaedong couldn't have got through


Wait, so you are saying that since Flash and Jaedong could have theoretically lost to Bisu they should be below him?
Tempest[OEC]
Profile Joined February 2010
United States417 Posts
May 26 2011 17:57 GMT
#363
In all fairness, Bisu isnt an MSL finalist or semifinalist. So Im hesitant to put him as #1 or above the others. But him getting knocked down isnt anything against his skill (we all know, or would assume, that Bisu could have gotten very far this MSL if it wasnt for the Group of Death).
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
May 26 2011 18:41 GMT
#364
On May 26 2011 23:50 Mumei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2011 22:51 Mortality wrote:
Not sure I want to see Zero above the Dong even with this win. But Dong really has had a terrible month. 6-8 since last PR with elimination in his statistically best match-up by a player historically weak in it.

By ELO, Zero is now #6. Jaedong is still #3, but if Hydra can pull a win over Flash at all then he will surpass JD. If Hydra loses 2-3 to Flash it will be very, very close.


I wouldn't call Jaedong's vZ his best these days, at least not in the last 6 - 7 months. It not being up-to-snuff has caused of him to lose two MSL semi-finals, and he also got knocked out of the last OSL partially due to an awful ZvZ against Hogil. And I don't think anyone would argue that his vT is essentially his only match-up where he still looks consistently like his old self.

I don't know why he can't seem to translate his general ZvZ dominance to Bo5. According to Liquipedia, he's 3 - 1 in ZvZ Bo5 through 2010; this brings him to 3 - 3 through 2011. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Bo3 - he's 20 - 3 in ZvZ Bo3 through 2010 - but it just seems like his opponents rise to the occasion when facing him in Bo5, and he... doesn't.


I hear ya, which is why I said "statistically best," although if you monkey with the time periods I think maybe his recent ZvT is statistically higher, but you just can't argue with 75+% for years without fail. His loss to Calm I understood: it was Calm playing incredibly smart SC and winning the battle of preparation. His loss to Hydra I sort of understood: last season was really bad for JD and Hydra demonstrated first rate control and understanding of timings. I have not seen the series against Zero yet but... to say this was an unexpected result is an understatement.

On May 27 2011 01:47 vishrut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 01:35 L0thar wrote:
Bisu in last years proved that he has problems getting from group stages in general, not just when paired with Flash or JD. He didn't *play* (much less win) a BO5 in ages.

I seriously can't believe I have to argue for MSL finalists being ahead from someone who got eliminated from group stages (like times and times before).

Top spots of PR are reserved for players who have great PL *and* individual leagues performance (if there are some). Bisu position last month is defendable, because he was crucial player in Winners League finals and that's gotta count for something. But this month he has done nothing special.

Just go and check Flash and Zero performance in PL. Flash is undefeated since last PR and Zero actually head on beat Bisu in their last (less than month old) match. Why on Earth would anybody put Bisu ahead of these two is completely beyond me.


Bisu was busy slumping hardcore so saying that he didnt do anything last year is pointless since the bisu of this year is completely different from the bisu of last year. i would think that bisu would be favored in a bo5 against zero but it would probably be close.

Also the only reason bisu is not in this zerg msl is because of flash. This is the first starleague since he has recovered his form and i think he would have gone far if he didnt meet flash


Zero happens to be exceptionally strong against Bisu, 4-3 lifetime with solid wins. Zero plays very smart SC and he doesn't allow Bisu to spread him out the same way other Zergs do. This means that I would not be so quick to favor Bisu over Zero, but it also means that ranking Zero ahead of Bisu on the grounds of winning a bo1 is even more silly than usual.

The same arguments that put Flash in #1 while he was out of SL last season argue that Bisu should be #2 right now behind only Flash who is posting comparable PL results at the moment and doing better in SL. That is my thought.

Zero... I love his smart play and I love that he's finally in a finals and I hope he wins. BUT... I'm hesitant to put him in the top 2 when his play is so erratic. On his best days, yeah, fucking hell, he's S-class no questions asked (at least in ZvT and ZvP). On his worst days... well...
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Grend
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1600 Posts
May 26 2011 20:56 GMT
#365
In times like these I feel confident in my choice of preferring the ELO as my primary skill measurement instead of a few select people`s subjective opinions.
♞ Against the Wind - Bob Seger ♞
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-26 21:07:01
May 26 2011 21:04 GMT
#366
On May 27 2011 03:41 Mortality wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2011 23:50 Mumei wrote:
On May 26 2011 22:51 Mortality wrote:
Not sure I want to see Zero above the Dong even with this win. But Dong really has had a terrible month. 6-8 since last PR with elimination in his statistically best match-up by a player historically weak in it.

By ELO, Zero is now #6. Jaedong is still #3, but if Hydra can pull a win over Flash at all then he will surpass JD. If Hydra loses 2-3 to Flash it will be very, very close.


I wouldn't call Jaedong's vZ his best these days, at least not in the last 6 - 7 months. It not being up-to-snuff has caused of him to lose two MSL semi-finals, and he also got knocked out of the last OSL partially due to an awful ZvZ against Hogil. And I don't think anyone would argue that his vT is essentially his only match-up where he still looks consistently like his old self.

I don't know why he can't seem to translate his general ZvZ dominance to Bo5. According to Liquipedia, he's 3 - 1 in ZvZ Bo5 through 2010; this brings him to 3 - 3 through 2011. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Bo3 - he's 20 - 3 in ZvZ Bo3 through 2010 - but it just seems like his opponents rise to the occasion when facing him in Bo5, and he... doesn't.


I hear ya, which is why I said "statistically best," although if you monkey with the time periods I think maybe his recent ZvT is statistically higher, but you just can't argue with 75+% for years without fail. His loss to Calm I understood: it was Calm playing incredibly smart SC and winning the battle of preparation. His loss to Hydra I sort of understood: last season was really bad for JD and Hydra demonstrated first rate control and understanding of timings. I have not seen the series against Zero yet but... to say this was an unexpected result is an understatement.

Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 01:47 vishrut wrote:
On May 27 2011 01:35 L0thar wrote:
Bisu in last years proved that he has problems getting from group stages in general, not just when paired with Flash or JD. He didn't *play* (much less win) a BO5 in ages.

I seriously can't believe I have to argue for MSL finalists being ahead from someone who got eliminated from group stages (like times and times before).

Top spots of PR are reserved for players who have great PL *and* individual leagues performance (if there are some). Bisu position last month is defendable, because he was crucial player in Winners League finals and that's gotta count for something. But this month he has done nothing special.

Just go and check Flash and Zero performance in PL. Flash is undefeated since last PR and Zero actually head on beat Bisu in their last (less than month old) match. Why on Earth would anybody put Bisu ahead of these two is completely beyond me.


Bisu was busy slumping hardcore so saying that he didnt do anything last year is pointless since the bisu of this year is completely different from the bisu of last year. i would think that bisu would be favored in a bo5 against zero but it would probably be close.

Also the only reason bisu is not in this zerg msl is because of flash. This is the first starleague since he has recovered his form and i think he would have gone far if he didnt meet flash


Zero happens to be exceptionally strong against Bisu, 4-3 lifetime with solid wins. Zero plays very smart SC and he doesn't allow Bisu to spread him out the same way other Zergs do. This means that I would not be so quick to favor Bisu over Zero, but it also means that ranking Zero ahead of Bisu on the grounds of winning a bo1 is even more silly than usual.

The same arguments that put Flash in #1 while he was out of SL last season argue that Bisu should be #2 right now behind only Flash who is posting comparable PL results at the moment and doing better in SL. That is my thought.

Zero... I love his smart play and I love that he's finally in a finals and I hope he wins. BUT... I'm hesitant to put him in the top 2 when his play is so erratic. On his best days, yeah, fucking hell, he's S-class no questions asked (at least in ZvT and ZvP). On his worst days... well...


idk man, if Zero wins the MSL, I think he deserves #1 PR.

That's just my opinion though. Taking out Jaedong in Zero's weakest matchup.... and then taking down Flash/Hydra... that's really impressive.

Note that the last PR was made 5/9/11, so the Zero-Bisu game was LAST month, not this one.
This month Zero is 8-4, but 3 of those losses are in MSL series that he won anyway. And he's played almost exclusively ZvZ which is classically his weakest matchup
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
May 26 2011 21:16 GMT
#367
Zero deserves no.1 at this rate. He just beat the no.2/no.1 ZvZ in the world (which is his worst MU) and he could very easily take the MSL at this point.

(Lets not forget, Zero is like the 1st zerg to beat Bisu in a macro game in months)

Dude is phenomenal. Unless, he gets demolished in the MSL finals I don't see how you could justify him not being up there
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Rtran10
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada78 Posts
May 26 2011 22:06 GMT
#368
how far will jaedong drop?
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
May 26 2011 22:31 GMT
#369
Silence of the lambs.

[image loading]
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
May 26 2011 22:41 GMT
#370
And I'm going to wait for Flash vs Hydra.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
May 26 2011 22:50 GMT
#371
On May 27 2011 07:31 flamewheel wrote:
Silence of the lambs.

[image loading]


i don't even...

other pertinent questions: will mind, soulkey, movie, horang2, leta??? fill the lower reaches of PR? or fbh / iris? or even best (omg best... and jangbi... and hoejja... are winning games o_O)?

Writer
VGhost
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3616 Posts
May 26 2011 23:29 GMT
#372
I just ask that ZerO not be #1 because that would guarantee he loses the MSL.
#4427 || I am not going to scan a ferret.
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
May 26 2011 23:52 GMT
#373
On May 27 2011 01:57 L0thar wrote:
That's entirely possible and I'd personaly love to see Bisu PvZ in later stages of some tournament. One of the most beautiful match ups, it's a shame he was forced to double PvT with Flash.

However he did meat Flash and he was eliminated. Speculation about what would happen if he didn't are pointless. At the end of the day, there are people in MSL finals and people who has to settle for PL.

Bisu ranking should not be based on some imaginary wins in MSL which he doesn't have.
His Ranking would be based on him being an absolute beast in PL, virtually unstoppable in PvZ and PvT if your not named Flash, having the second highest ELO with a 70 point drop to 3rd place JD. Closing in on 60 PL wins, and in general playing some of the best StarCraft of anyone these days. Imaginary MSL games got nothing to do with it.
God Hates a Coward
Mumei
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States257 Posts
May 27 2011 00:44 GMT
#374
On May 27 2011 03:41 Mortality wrote:I hear ya, which is why I said "statistically best," although if you monkey with the time periods I think maybe his recent ZvT is statistically higher, but you just can't argue with 75+% for years without fail.


Well, for just this year, which we're now approaching the halfway mark of, he's at 63.64% (42 - 24) overall. But when you separate that out by match-up, you'll see the disparity: In vT he's at 79.17% (19 - 5), in vZ he's at 56.52% (13 - 10), and in vP he's at 52.63% (10 - 9).

His vT is all that's keeping his overall record looking respectable, though still well below his usual standards, instead of looking like a slump. As a fan, it's been frustrating seeing him reach what could be new heights in his ZvT only for him to seemingly lose his dominance in the other match-ups. He was at just over 80% in vP last year, and 76% in vZ, and now he's barely staying over 50%.
L0thar
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
987 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 00:58:17
May 27 2011 00:56 GMT
#375
On May 27 2011 08:52 Oystein wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 01:57 L0thar wrote:
That's entirely possible and I'd personaly love to see Bisu PvZ in later stages of some tournament. One of the most beautiful match ups, it's a shame he was forced to double PvT with Flash.

However he did meat Flash and he was eliminated. Speculation about what would happen if he didn't are pointless. At the end of the day, there are people in MSL finals and people who has to settle for PL.

Bisu ranking should not be based on some imaginary wins in MSL which he doesn't have.
His Ranking would be based on him being an absolute beast in PL, virtually unstoppable in PvZ and PvT if your not named Flash, having the second highest ELO with a 70 point drop to 3rd place JD. Closing in on 60 PL wins, and in general playing some of the best StarCraft of anyone these days. Imaginary MSL games got nothing to do with it.



Sounds nice...in a vacuum, without comparing him to other players. Let's take a look at them:

Flash - cruising PL, MSL semifinalist, the player directly responsible for delegating Bisu to PL duties only.
Zero - stellar in PL, MSL finalist, the player who actually beat Bisu head on the last time they met in PL, in Bisu strongest matchups, no less.

Why nobody reads what I'm writing over and over? Zero and Flash achieved much more than Bisu last month AND they beat him last time they played together. No way you can justify putting him over them. Every single post directed at me failed to address both of these point. I don't care how well does Bisu perform in PL when there are people who are performing almost just as well, beat the hell out of him when they played together and show significant individual leagues results.

Seriously guys, you are all acting like I wanna drop Bisu from the ranking altogether lol. I merely stated that Flash, Zero and maybe Hydra (if he win against Flash) should be ahead of him, which would put Bisu on nice 3rd or 4th place. Exactly a place where player who has only one league to train for should belong.
bearbuddy
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3442 Posts
May 27 2011 01:05 GMT
#376
On May 27 2011 08:29 VGhost wrote:
I just ask that ZerO not be #1 because that would guarantee he loses the MSL.


Yeah, seriously. It's like Konadora curse 2.0
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
May 27 2011 02:00 GMT
#377
On May 27 2011 07:41 flamewheel wrote:
And I'm going to wait for Flash vs Hydra.


Good choice.

If ZerO wins MSL next month I look forward to him being #1. And he should be fairly high this month, though not #1 (whoever wins FvH should take it imo).
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
May 27 2011 02:01 GMT
#378
At this point, the ranking would be 1/2. ZerO/Flash 3/4 Bisu/Flash and then 5 being Hydra and then other players who have a good reccord this month.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
May 27 2011 02:43 GMT
#379
On May 27 2011 09:44 Mumei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 03:41 Mortality wrote:I hear ya, which is why I said "statistically best," although if you monkey with the time periods I think maybe his recent ZvT is statistically higher, but you just can't argue with 75+% for years without fail.


Well, for just this year, which we're now approaching the halfway mark of, he's at 63.64% (42 - 24) overall. But when you separate that out by match-up, you'll see the disparity: In vT he's at 79.17% (19 - 5), in vZ he's at 56.52% (13 - 10), and in vP he's at 52.63% (10 - 9).

His vT is all that's keeping his overall record looking respectable, though still well below his usual standards, instead of looking like a slump. As a fan, it's been frustrating seeing him reach what could be new heights in his ZvT only for him to seemingly lose his dominance in the other match-ups. He was at just over 80% in vP last year, and 76% in vZ, and now he's barely staying over 50%.


His ZvT record is actually way above his usual, but as I've said before, I really want to see those high stakes matches before I say this is the best Dong's ZvT has ever been (in relative terms).

Regarding ZvZ, 13-10 takes into account last night, no? Going into last night would anyone have suspected JD at 63% wins until then in ZvZ in 2011, averaging 75+% over a many year period, to fall to Zero? If you asked me I would have said his ZvZ stats were lower than usual because he had been struggling a bit last season, but that struggle wasn't limited -- in my viewpoint -- to ZvZ.

On May 27 2011 06:04 xxpack09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 03:41 Mortality wrote:
On May 26 2011 23:50 Mumei wrote:
On May 26 2011 22:51 Mortality wrote:
Not sure I want to see Zero above the Dong even with this win. But Dong really has had a terrible month. 6-8 since last PR with elimination in his statistically best match-up by a player historically weak in it.

By ELO, Zero is now #6. Jaedong is still #3, but if Hydra can pull a win over Flash at all then he will surpass JD. If Hydra loses 2-3 to Flash it will be very, very close.


I wouldn't call Jaedong's vZ his best these days, at least not in the last 6 - 7 months. It not being up-to-snuff has caused of him to lose two MSL semi-finals, and he also got knocked out of the last OSL partially due to an awful ZvZ against Hogil. And I don't think anyone would argue that his vT is essentially his only match-up where he still looks consistently like his old self.

I don't know why he can't seem to translate his general ZvZ dominance to Bo5. According to Liquipedia, he's 3 - 1 in ZvZ Bo5 through 2010; this brings him to 3 - 3 through 2011. He doesn't seem to have a problem with Bo3 - he's 20 - 3 in ZvZ Bo3 through 2010 - but it just seems like his opponents rise to the occasion when facing him in Bo5, and he... doesn't.


I hear ya, which is why I said "statistically best," although if you monkey with the time periods I think maybe his recent ZvT is statistically higher, but you just can't argue with 75+% for years without fail. His loss to Calm I understood: it was Calm playing incredibly smart SC and winning the battle of preparation. His loss to Hydra I sort of understood: last season was really bad for JD and Hydra demonstrated first rate control and understanding of timings. I have not seen the series against Zero yet but... to say this was an unexpected result is an understatement.

On May 27 2011 01:47 vishrut wrote:
On May 27 2011 01:35 L0thar wrote:
Bisu in last years proved that he has problems getting from group stages in general, not just when paired with Flash or JD. He didn't *play* (much less win) a BO5 in ages.

I seriously can't believe I have to argue for MSL finalists being ahead from someone who got eliminated from group stages (like times and times before).

Top spots of PR are reserved for players who have great PL *and* individual leagues performance (if there are some). Bisu position last month is defendable, because he was crucial player in Winners League finals and that's gotta count for something. But this month he has done nothing special.

Just go and check Flash and Zero performance in PL. Flash is undefeated since last PR and Zero actually head on beat Bisu in their last (less than month old) match. Why on Earth would anybody put Bisu ahead of these two is completely beyond me.


Bisu was busy slumping hardcore so saying that he didnt do anything last year is pointless since the bisu of this year is completely different from the bisu of last year. i would think that bisu would be favored in a bo5 against zero but it would probably be close.

Also the only reason bisu is not in this zerg msl is because of flash. This is the first starleague since he has recovered his form and i think he would have gone far if he didnt meet flash


Zero happens to be exceptionally strong against Bisu, 4-3 lifetime with solid wins. Zero plays very smart SC and he doesn't allow Bisu to spread him out the same way other Zergs do. This means that I would not be so quick to favor Bisu over Zero, but it also means that ranking Zero ahead of Bisu on the grounds of winning a bo1 is even more silly than usual.

The same arguments that put Flash in #1 while he was out of SL last season argue that Bisu should be #2 right now behind only Flash who is posting comparable PL results at the moment and doing better in SL. That is my thought.

Zero... I love his smart play and I love that he's finally in a finals and I hope he wins. BUT... I'm hesitant to put him in the top 2 when his play is so erratic. On his best days, yeah, fucking hell, he's S-class no questions asked (at least in ZvT and ZvP). On his worst days... well...


idk man, if Zero wins the MSL, I think he deserves #1 PR.

That's just my opinion though. Taking out Jaedong in Zero's weakest matchup.... and then taking down Flash/Hydra... that's really impressive.

Note that the last PR was made 5/9/11, so the Zero-Bisu game was LAST month, not this one.
This month Zero is 8-4, but 3 of those losses are in MSL series that he won anyway. And he's played almost exclusively ZvZ which is classically his weakest matchup


MSL finals will be after the end of this PR period. And the Zero-Bisu game was recent enough to be discussion relevant.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Dakkas
Profile Joined October 2010
2550 Posts
May 27 2011 03:14 GMT
#380
On May 27 2011 02:19 HopLight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 01:01 Dakkas wrote:
On May 26 2011 22:37 L0thar wrote:
Sorry, but If you can't tell the difference between "being MSL finalist" and "won a game, still get eliminated form the MSL" by yourself, I probably won't be able to explain it either way.


You can explain it by being in a group with the 2 best players in the world. Not getting further into the MSL is not a negative on Bisu's list because it's entirely possible Flash or Jaedong couldn't have got through


Wait, so you are saying that since Flash and Jaedong could have theoretically lost to Bisu they should be below him?


No, I never said that. My point is that Bisu not making past the group stages is not something to hold against him

Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 25 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro24 Group A
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Afreeca ASL 11333
StarCastTV_EN204
LiquipediaDiscussion
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #75
CranKy Ducklings150
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech119
MindelVK 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 15852
Flash 5256
Bisu 4914
Horang2 2760
Jaedong 1416
Hyuk 845
BeSt 725
Larva 363
Stork 312
Pusan 297
[ Show more ]
Zeus 271
Leta 151
Light 136
PianO 67
Killer 66
NotJumperer 58
ToSsGirL 56
Backho 47
Nal_rA 30
Bale 25
yabsab 24
Shinee 23
Hm[arnc] 22
soO 16
Terrorterran 15
Noble 14
GoRush 11
Movie 9
Dota 2
XcaliburYe343
canceldota137
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1748
zeus438
edward67
Super Smash Bros
Westballz0
Other Games
ceh9655
XBOCT368
Happy344
shoxiejesuss245
crisheroes228
Fuzer 196
Livibee140
Sick114
Mew2King51
ViBE37
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick662
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 251
lovetv 21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 34
• StrangeGG 23
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 14m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 14m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 14m
Afreeca Starleague
23h 14m
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 23h
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Platinum Heroes Events
5 days
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.