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Wait guys.
Full stop.
MSL reorganizes the bracket based on KeSPA ranking at the start of the bo5 phase. So in this hypothetical scenario where Jaedong has been eliminated, Flash is the highest KeSPA ranked. Therefore Flash faces Grape in Ro8 regardless of who advances 2-0 or 2-1 from Group D. Hydra would be #2 ranked with Bisu at #3. So Hydra would face Flash's actual opponent, Leta, and Bisu would face Hydra's actual opponent Mind.
...So actually, under this hypothetical scenario I'd say that Bisu would have had a harder month than Flash.
However, all this said, it's a moot point because Bisu didn't advance. Although I do find it likely that Bisu would have advanced if he faced JD or Sea in his first match instead of Flash,, but I suppose it's foolishness to count JD out wherever individual leagues are concerned.
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On May 24 2011 13:45 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 10:10 TwoToneTerran wrote:On May 24 2011 07:26 Lightwip wrote:
Really, at this point the only thing Flash has on Bisu is his placement in MSL. Other than that, in every way they're almost identical.
Jaedong has been losing a little force, still far above the next best player though. That's the worst excuse. "The only thing Flash has over Bisu is that he is winning games in tournaments!!!" That's quite the difference, especially when he is in the tournament entirely because he 2-0'd Bisu. I'm sure Bisu would care more about getting a fourth MSL than just being great in PL. Wait what? I note that Flash has an advantage over Bisu because he's in the MSL and Flash fans jump to assume that I think Bisu belongs above him? Where in my post did I even say that Bisu should be placed above Flash?
Your every post comes off like its belittling flash because you always do, sorry if I jumped to a conclusion, but it's not like there isn't heaps and mounds and piles of precedence.
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On May 24 2011 12:29 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 11:30 VGhost wrote:On May 24 2011 10:47 Dakkas wrote:
Well to be fair, and I'm not saying this simply because I'm a Bisu-fanboy because I agree that Flash is above him, but I think most people can agree that if Bisu played Jaedong first up instead he would have been advancing. If Bisu played Jaedong first, he probably (call it 70%) would have won that game. Then he would have played the winner of Flash vs Sea, which would 99% have been Flash (8-0 vs Sea lifetime). The chances are fairly good he loses that game (anyone who considers the Aztec win anything but a BO/map win - albeit a perfect one - is smoking something). So assuming Sea then lost to Jaedong to go 0-2 (2-5 lifetime), we get a 2nd Jaedong vs Bisu match as the finisher. Now it's true that Bisu has done very well against Jaedong overall and especially recently. It's also true that the final map was Dante's Peak which (so far, stat-wise at least) is a heavily Z >>> P map. So I put Bisu at a maximum 60/40 advantage there. Then you realize that Jaedong has only lost in MSL group stages twice - his first time out, against sAviOr and Pusan, and then most recently to a group of Hwasin/firebathero/Flash (in 2009). In stark comparison, Bisu makes a habit of faceplanting in group stages. Am I saying Bisu couldn't have advanced? No. But I give the mental edge to JD in a huge way... and the mental edge is huge. But let's assume that Bisu advances over Jaedong. Let's even assume he beats both Reality and Grape (more of a question, since Grape knocked out Horang2's PvP) soundly and is now in the Ro4. In that case we have Flash advancing 2-0, beating Really, and wrecking Leta, and Bisu advancing 2-1 (with a loss to Flash) and beating Reality and Grape. Now Really is a mediocre player, but his TvT is often excellent; Leta's not on the top of his form, but he's a solid A class player at least (usually) and TvT is also (usually) his best MU. On the other hand, Reality and Grape are just good (and surprising) rookies. In conclusion: if we take your hypothetical and run with it, all other things being equal... Flash still has the better resume at the end of this month. Where did I ever say Bisu have a better month than Flash? I even flat out stated that Flash is above Bisu? So to be honest, was this just an excuse to post a wall of text or something?
As much as I adore walls of text... no, I just missed you said that. Also I kind of got sidetracked, the post was originally just meant to show that Bisu might not "probably" have advanced given JD's/Bisu's respective starleague showings, maps, etc.
Edit: And of course Mortality points out the spanner in the works... for some reason I was thinking JD/Bisu were #2 & #3 and that wouldn't change anything but I forgot about how KeSPA does things.
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On May 24 2011 14:54 Mortality wrote:
Wait guys.
Full stop.
MSL reorganizes the bracket based on KeSPA ranking at the start of the bo5 phase. So in this hypothetical scenario where Jaedong has been eliminated, Flash is the highest KeSPA ranked. Therefore Flash faces Grape in Ro8 regardless of who advances 2-0 or 2-1 from Group D. Hydra would be #2 ranked with Bisu at #3. So Hydra would face Flash's actual opponent, Leta, and Bisu would face Hydra's actual opponent Mind.
...So actually, under this hypothetical scenario I'd say that Bisu would have had a harder month than Flash.
However, all this said, it's a moot point because Bisu didn't advance. Although I do find it likely that Bisu would have advanced if he faced JD or Sea in his first match instead of Flash,, but I suppose it's foolishness to count JD out wherever individual leagues are concerned.
damn your good 
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Bisu really needs to advance far the next Starleague so PR discussion regarding his position isn't full of hypotheticals hahaha.
Random question for anyone: If Hydra defeated Flash 3-2 and JD defeated Zero 3-0, would Hydra be ranked ahead of JD?
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I try to be. Otherwise I'd qualify for village idiot, methinks.
Edit:
On May 25 2011 02:14 Caladbolg wrote:
Random question for anyone: If Hydra defeated Flash 3-2 and JD defeated Zero 3-0, would Hydra be ranked ahead of JD?
It appears that Flash vs Hydra will take place the day after the ranking is posted unless flamewheel decides to just wait a day for it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225738
When I wrote my last post I didn't realize so few games were left. Basically it looks to me like the positions are all pretty much a lock except for JD and Zero.
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On May 25 2011 02:41 Mortality wrote:I try to be. Otherwise I'd qualify for village idiot, methinks. Edit: Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:14 Caladbolg wrote:
Random question for anyone: If Hydra defeated Flash 3-2 and JD defeated Zero 3-0, would Hydra be ranked ahead of JD? It appears that Flash vs Hydra will take place the day after the ranking is posted unless flamewheel decides to just wait a day for it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225738When I wrote my last post I didn't realize so few games were left. Basically it looks to me like the positions are all pretty much a lock except for JD and Zero.
I'm pretty sure that flamewheel will wait for both semi-finals to be finished before posting the rank. It's only one day and a very understandable reason to delay it a bit.
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I agree with waiting for both semis to finish (eventhough it could only hurt Flash placement). It's a reasonable thing to do.
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I am a fan of  Jaedong and i love to see how  Flash destroys everyone but this month  Bisu should have been number one.
I never seen JD so shaky on ZvP; losing to Horang. Damn...
Also ggaemo for number 10 would have been nice.
PS: now i realised that Horang2 isnt in PR; Hydra is still a fluke, being stupid vs T, sloppy vs P and only looking good vs Z.
Just my 2 cents...
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^ I don't understand people who retrospectively complain about PR. There wasn't even a discussion last month about wheather Jaedong should have been #1 or not.
What is really strange is that he said in an interview that he felt he played badly in april...
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LOL. ggaemo has not been hot lately at all. Yeah he plays okay but in the end he always loses. If you're going to put someone with a losing record at #10 let it be Fanta or Stork. Seriously.
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On May 25 2011 02:41 Mortality wrote:I try to be. Otherwise I'd qualify for village idiot, methinks. Edit: Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 02:14 Caladbolg wrote:
Random question for anyone: If Hydra defeated Flash 3-2 and JD defeated Zero 3-0, would Hydra be ranked ahead of JD? It appears that Flash vs Hydra will take place the day after the ranking is posted unless flamewheel decides to just wait a day for it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=225738When I wrote my last post I didn't realize so few games were left. Basically it looks to me like the positions are all pretty much a lock except for JD and Zero.
Ideally he'd wait for the semis to end. But how much damage would a 3-0, 3-1, 3-2 loss for Flash do to his ranking, respectively? Similar q for Jaedong. I'm wondering if next month's top 3 would be as uncontroversial as last month (disregarding the hierarchy between the top 3).
EDIT: As I ask this, I do keep in mind that even a 0-3 loss might not hurt the ranking too much if the games were amazingly close. This is in the assumption of course, that the loss corresponds to the score (3-0 is a blowout, 3-1 wasn't close, and 3-2 was a close loss).
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If Hydra 3-0'd Flash, which I doubt, then he'd deserve a top 3 position, upsetting the applecart completely. Even simply winning over Flash would tempt me to bump him up. Last season Hydra proved his ZvZ, a strong showing vs Flash would prove his ZvT, and statistically ZvP is his strongest match.
If Jaedong loses to Zero and Hydra even comes close to advancing then I'd be tempted to switch them. May has been a rough month for JD, although the problem for JD really has been concentrated on La Mancha. Also, Zero's ranking would go up with a win over the dong, or even a close result. Beating a Clamish Calm is one thing, but overcoming JvZ is another entirely.
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Lol, if Hydra 3-0's Flash I'd place him at #1 no questions asked. 
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On May 26 2011 00:11 Holgerius wrote:Lol, if Hydra 3-0's Flash I'd place him at #1 no questions asked.
ROFLMAO
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On May 26 2011 00:11 Holgerius wrote:Lol, if Hydra 3-0's Flash I'd place him at #1 no questions asked.
Yeah lol. Prove that his ZvT is strong? wth he has done that, his series vs Mind was a work of art (the day 2 one).
Happy to see Flash on top of it. Oh and please a shoutout to Hoejja, his game vs stork was sick man :D
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 25 2011 10:55 Phradamon wrote:I am a fan of Jaedong and i love to see how Flash destroys everyone but this month Bisu should have been number one. I never seen JD so shaky on ZvP; losing to Horang. Damn... Also ggaemo for number 10 would have been nice. PS: now i realised that Horang2 isnt in PR; Hydra is still a fluke, being stupid vs T, sloppy vs P and only looking good vs Z. Just my 2 cents...
The Power rank was made before the matches you just described.
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On May 26 2011 03:50 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 00:11 Holgerius wrote:Lol, if Hydra 3-0's Flash I'd place him at #1 no questions asked. Yeah lol. Prove that his ZvT is strong? wth he has done that, his series vs Mind was a work of art (the day 2 one). Happy to see Flash on top of it. Oh and please a shoutout to Hoejja, his game vs stork was sick man :D
Strong is not the same as S-class though. Right now Hydra's reputation is as the 3rd best ZvTer in the world. He is also right now 3rd best ZvTer by ELO (but that's 2133 points, peak of 2149... not even close to 2200, which is the kind of number I'd like to see out of S-class).
As far as I'm concerned, 3rd best can mean S-class if you are still dominating all your opponents (e.g. there was a time when Nada, Boxer, Oov, and Midas were all favored against ANY Zerg not named Savior), but in this case Hydra needs to prove that.
I like Mind and I think he's good, but Mind is not even top 10 TvZ ELO right now. His peak is only 2106 (May 8), which means he could not possibly have been higher than #8 in the world by ELO at the time of his peak.
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No, I don't think anyone really would call Hydra s-class in any mu yet. But the cool thing with him is that he seems to be playing a lot better in SLs than in PL - so he may be able to give Flash atleast a run for his money. His series against Mind to me looked very very solid.
I have to say that I would be more scarred for Hydra than Flash right now in a final vs Jaedong. But that has something to do also with Hydra beating Jaedong last season and zvz being unpredictable.
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I think at this point the top three DOES look pretty set, but there are definitely a few situations that could throw a wrench in things. The most obvious and simple is if JD bombs out of the MSL. Drop him down, no big deal. Another is if he just squeaks by Zero and Hydra performs well against Flash, that could bring 3/4 into question.
Imo the most problematic(and the biggest longshot, but still theoretcially possible), though, would be if JD 3-0s Zero and Flash gets ruined by Hydra. I think at that point you would be put in this position where you wouldn't know who the hell to put in first place. Perhaps more aptly, you'd have three players who should be in second.
I mean, who gets first? JD? You'd practically have to ignore his PL performance. Flash? I don't think you can get upset in a semifinal and be #1 PR in the same day(though keep in mind this is in the case of a bad loss, not Hydra getting some lucky game 5 cheese or something). Bisu? Come on now, doing well in PL is only half of the game, and it's not like he went 12-0 or anything anyways.
I dunno why I'm going on about this given how unlikely a scenario it is, but I think it would be rather interesting to see how things fell if that DID happen.
Just a thought.
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EPT
