On December 24 2010 00:12 Mortality wrote: Flash isn't kicked out yet and Shine and Kal have to face-off in the (arguable) group of death in order to advance in MSL. Fantasy could still make it in both leagues by advancing in the other (arguable) group of death. And Calm advances at least in MSL and possibly in OSL depending on JD...
And if Bisu fails his group then I can't see him ahead of Flash, so... hold your horses.
no even if he gets into the tie breakers and does make it into the OSL he should still drop. He's relying on complete luck right now to have any chance at advancing into the OSL and the way he's lost his games he should not be #1 next month no matter what.
Yeah flash should drop, how much though? Drop him too far and the PR won't be accurate even if the results back it up.
I would still bet on him to play a bo5 vs invading aliens, but dropping out of both leagues like this definately deserves some sort of action taken on the PR.
On December 24 2010 02:24 Lightwip wrote: No, Flash definitely deserves to drop. If he makes it out of tiebreakers, it does indeed mean he's still in the OSL, but one would have to wonder why he was in that position in the first place. So for at least a month he would probably have to drop at least 1-2.
On December 24 2010 00:12 Mortality wrote: Flash isn't kicked out yet and Shine and Kal have to face-off in the (arguable) group of death in order to advance in MSL. Fantasy could still make it in both leagues by advancing in the other (arguable) group of death. And Calm advances at least in MSL and possibly in OSL depending on JD...
And if Bisu fails his group then I can't see him ahead of Flash, so... hold your horses.
no even if he gets into the tie breakers and does make it into the OSL he should still drop. He's relying on complete luck right now to have any chance at advancing into the OSL and the way he's lost his games he should not be #1 next month no matter what.
I agree completely and I never disputed this.
And additionally, I already stated that I do not believe that a player qualified for neither league (as may happen) should be ahead of a player qualified for both, regardless of proleague results. Potentially this could mean Flash (and Bisu) not even being in the top 5.
Although I would argue that if Flash does luck into a tie-breaker and does survive it then he should be ahead of Bisu except for maybe, maybe a situation where Bisu thoroughly demolishes his group.
Let's pretend they both advance. Then what? I'd probably do something like: 1. JD 2-3. Shine and Stork (depending on whether Shine advances in MSL as well) 4. Flash 5. Bisu 6. Calm with Fantasy, and Kal as wildcards in the ranking depending on how they do for the rest of the month. Or maybe Calm should be higher given his recent resurgence, but I think given how sucky he was playing just recently he should be below Flash and Bisu if they advance. Note that if both Flash and Bisu advance, then Kal can only potentially advance if Shine does not advance. So if Flash, Bisu and Shine advance, then Kal drops from both leagues and potentially speaking drops out of the top 10.
Let's say Flash and Bisu both drop. I'll assume that means Kal and Shine advance in MSL although theoretically Really could advance instead of one of them. Then probably something like this is what I'd do: 1. JD 2. Shine 3. Stork 4. Kal 5. Calm* 6. Flash 7. Bisu *If Fantasy advances in MSL 2-0 I would put him as #5 over Calm, if he advances at all I would put him as #6.
So... ouch?
If Bisu advances and Flash does not then he would rank ahead of Flash, but his exact place would depend on how convincingly he advances.
Remember: this ranking is premised on the idea that a player in both leagues should be ahead of a player in neither. This month's results make the ranking somewhat difficult. As far as I'm concerned, our top 10 has more or less solidified unless major changes happen. In no particular order: JD, Shine, Stork, Fantasy, Calm, Kal, Flash, Bisu, Leta and Hydra. I suppose in theory Fantasy or Kal could still drop from the list but the others are on it regardless of what happens. Of course, their place can still change pending results (or lack thereof). The CBNC list is likely to feature Bogus, Brave, Baby and possibly, just possibly, ggaemo for their proleague performances, and possibly Action if his resurgence continues.
Barring major issues, this ranking is difficult, but actually not as bad as it might seem. The mess is occurring in the top 5-8 players since some perennial powers are not performing when the chips are down (Flash...) and others are only performing when the chips are down (Kal I'm looking at you) and others still are being a little unpredictable (Calm and his evil twin Clam keep switching places and then there's Fantasy...). But I'm actually a little happy that this won't be a month where the PR writer is tossing random names in for the bottom spots just to fill the places as if they don't matter, because they do.
Pretty much agree with all that. Nevertheless, this PR is sure gonna take quite a bit of work to do. It's actually relatively straightforward, but a lot of variables need to be considered. Also, Hydra is still godmoding except in that one game against Fantasy. WTF?!?!?
He certainly does get wins, yet his play is hardly something amazing enough to call him "good." But for me, the threshold for "good" is about Leta-level.
Heh, Shine actually looks pretty unstoppable this time around. There's really only a few players left in the OSL that I'd count on beating him. Right now, the results could go so many ways. It really comes down to a few crucial games. You know what, I'm just gonna wait till today's games to discuss all the possibilities for the PR.
On December 24 2010 08:26 flamewheel wrote: Hey okay I only ever have to toss in 10
I was fine with Light being "tossed in." And actually I thought it was a pretty good choice. (Edit: #7 ELO currently and playing a lot of tough opponents... shame he had to play 3 games vs Protoss in MSL) But go back and look at PR history. So many times 8-10 have just been "yeah, I didn't know who to put, so I just put this dude."
I'd say, just rank players by the number of wins they have this month. Its much easier and more fair since if you are out of a league, you will most likely not play as much games as those who plays in it therefore, you wont get more wins.
On December 24 2010 16:38 Xiphos wrote: I'd say, just rank players by the number of wins they have this month. Its much easier and more fair since if you are out of a league, you will most likely not play as much games as those who plays in it therefore, you wont get more wins.
Yes, I completely agree. These rankings would be extremely accurate. Additionally, we could save ourselfes the wirte-up and just create a link for the TLPD where the players are listed. That would be sweet. If several players have the same win:loss ratio, we will just put them all at the same rank. Or maybe we use APM as a tiebreaker who should be up higher. Also the pleasure of never have to discuss some weird rookie who goes 4-0/ 3-1 two months in a row. As long as we have some veterans with a nice 5-8 record dropping out of MSL Survivor and losing ace matches, we are good. I would be extremely excited to read those PRs.
When was the last time neither Flash or Jaedong was #1? Because that series just ended with OSL Day 6. Terrible play by Jaedong, really really terrible.
So, what does this mean? O_o JD is not looking invincible by any means, losing ace games and dropping out of OSL. Really interesting stuff happening in the world of SC right now...
Seriously, who the fuck could've possible imagined at the beginning of this season that Flash would've dropped out of both Starleagues and JD out of OSL after the groupstages? I'm so confused right now.
EPT
