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On June 17 2010 19:57 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2010 17:49 danl9rm wrote:
the more i think about it, the more laughable it is that effort is in front of jaedong.
is jd going to have to go 10-0 in ace matches before he's not slumping? It's not like this rank was made right after Effort had a dominating month and then won the OSL over Flash, with JD subsequently getting murdered 3-0. Wait, what's that? It was made right after that happened? The only thing that's laughable is what you're saying.
Laughable is suggesting that last month effort looked more dominant than JD. In his past games among the games that went past early-game only SPL game versus Flash and second game against Kal looked decent. In all other games he played like total shit once game went into mid stages. Effort's second place this month is a mistake
Elroi, Flash played 7 games thus far winning 4 of them he heavily practiced for. Three losses are from unpredictable ace matches where he got sniped and all three of them are in the "recommended vods" section. JD won 4 games he heavily practiced for and the only time we expected to see him in the Ace game Oz coach decided HiyA has more chances to win (and decision resulted in brilliant back and forth action with HiyA's victory in the end). I for one, fail to see how this performance is enough to close the gap between JD and Flash, let alone to put JD at the first place.
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Sorry. Flash not practicing for ace match is a poor poor excuse, when he knows he's the only ace on his team. Also, JD is the only ace on his team, nobody gives those excuses for him.
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On June 18 2010 02:35 WWJDD wrote:
Sorry. Flash not practicing for ace match is a poor poor excuse, when he knows he's the only ace on his team. Also, JD is the only ace on his team, nobody gives those excuses for him.
Pretty sure Hiya was ace for Oz when the team was too afraid Jaedong would get bashed by Flash for the fourth time in a row. And Jaedong and Flash have more excuses made for them than anyone else so I have no idea what you are talking about.
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I believe at this point in time, it should take more than one mediocre month for Flash to lose the top position. His win against JD should give him enough credit.
JD seems to be a solid #2 again, EffOrt and Baby are losing way too much right now.
edit: JDs 9:1 stats are a little bit misleading, since preliminary-games have never really counted that much for the PR.
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On June 17 2010 20:47 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2010 19:57 darktreb wrote:On June 17 2010 17:49 danl9rm wrote:
the more i think about it, the more laughable it is that effort is in front of jaedong.
is jd going to have to go 10-0 in ace matches before he's not slumping? It's not like this rank was made right after Effort had a dominating month and then won the OSL over Flash, with JD subsequently getting murdered 3-0. Wait, what's that? It was made right after that happened? The only thing that's laughable is what you're saying. Laughable is suggesting that last month effort looked more dominant than JD. In his past games among the games that went past early-game only SPL game versus Flash and second game against Kal looked decent. In all other games he played like total shit once game went into mid stages. Effort's second place this month is a mistake Elroi, Flash played 7 games thus far winning 4 of them he heavily practiced for. Three losses are from unpredictable ace matches where he got sniped and all three of them are in the "recommended vods" section. JD won 4 games he heavily practiced for and the only time we expected to see him in the Ace game Oz coach decided HiyA has more chances to win (and decision resulted in brilliant back and forth action with HiyA's victory in the end). I for one, fail to see how this performance is enough to close the gap between JD and Flash, let alone to put JD at the first place.
This doesn't make sense. It's a really bad excuse to begin with: many teams have one ace who plays almost every ace game, it's not impossible for them to win. It's not like Ruby, Baby or Hiya prepared some super anti-flash cheese either in the game, Baby even got a really bad opening. And you'd notice, if you read the interviews, that Ruby didn't prepare especially for Flash. In the Wemade game too the excuse is as bad: Flash had to expect a terran opponent from their all terran line-up. And what do you mean Jaedong and Flash "practiced heavily" for some games? No opponents are decided on beforehand in proleague after the betting scandal. They'd only be stupid to not prepare for the ace games. JD has gone 9-1 this month and his games have all been absolute domination. Flash lost to 29% TvT Ruby. Of course the month is far from over and Flash is an absolute monster, but If you don't even see how this "close[s] the gap between JD and Flash" you are delusiounal imo.
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So Jaedong should be first while being defeated 3:0 like 2-3 weeks ago ? Dilusional i say, dilusional.
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On June 17 2010 20:47 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2010 19:57 darktreb wrote:On June 17 2010 17:49 danl9rm wrote:
the more i think about it, the more laughable it is that effort is in front of jaedong.
is jd going to have to go 10-0 in ace matches before he's not slumping? It's not like this rank was made right after Effort had a dominating month and then won the OSL over Flash, with JD subsequently getting murdered 3-0. Wait, what's that? It was made right after that happened? The only thing that's laughable is what you're saying. Laughable is suggesting that last month effort looked more dominant than JD. In his past games among the games that went past early-game only SPL game versus Flash and second game against Kal looked decent. In all other games he played like total shit once game went into mid stages. Effort's second place this month is a mistake Elroi, Flash played 7 games thus far winning 4 of them he heavily practiced for. Three losses are from unpredictable ace matches where he got sniped and all three of them are in the "recommended vods" section. JD won 4 games he heavily practiced for and the only time we expected to see him in the Ace game Oz coach decided HiyA has more chances to win (and decision resulted in brilliant back and forth action with HiyA's victory in the end). I for one, fail to see how this performance is enough to close the gap between JD and Flash, let alone to put JD at the first place.
LOL yeah I mean like who practices for ace matches you know? It's not like they win you the whole thing or anything.
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On June 18 2010 04:13 Samurai- wrote:
So Jaedong should be first while being defeated 3:0 like 2-3 weeks ago ? Dilusional i say, dilusional.
Delusional? Jaedong really stepped it up this month and is back to killing everyone, while Flash is dropping the ball in the most important games. He doesn't even have OSL to practice for like Jaedong does.
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Flash deserves the benefit of the doubt. Jaedong has to do something amazing if he's to wrest #1 from Flash after the 3-0 beatdown in the MSL finals.
1: Flash
1 1/2: Jaedong
3-10: other people
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WWJDD, I didn't say Flash doesn't practice for ace. Obviously he does. Its different issue, or "excuse" if you wish ;P
As long as Flash is the only ace for KT, he is at huge disadvantage. Knowing your opponent is a big deal and Flash opponents not only know the race they gonna face, they know who it's gonna be exactly and Flash certainly gave them more then enough info to study his habits and timings. Flash on other hand is preparing blind and sometimes doesn't even know opponents race. You can't just draw a straight line between his Ace games and JD regular ones and compare them.
Ruby is exception though. Even though he's obvious ace choice, you can't prepare against him. How can you prepare TvT against him? You can't. Even if you're Flash, all you can do is practice and hope he doesn't step up his game even more and don't humiliate you with a bunch of ghosts at the end lol
Elroi, his opponents hadn't prepared super cheeses, yes. But there's dozen ways you can get advantage over your opponent if you study his habits without turning your strategy into cheese and that's the point of sniping someone. He knew wemade will send terran, but he had no luxury of knowing his opponent exactly like Baby had. And why do you insist in including JD's offline prelims games? Top3 player is expected to go undefeated there especially in quite a noname group. Those games would have any meaning only if he'd lost 'em 
Imo, Ruby's TvP and TvT stats should be completely ignored. He somehow shaped into completely different player in the ACE~
On June 18 2010 06:54 De4ngus wrote:
LOL yeah I mean like who practices for ace matches you know? It's not like they win you the whole thing or anything.
KT isn't ACE, you know. They are fully capable of ending series with 3-0/3-1. They don't have to rely on the ace match to get a win.
Why do you people think recent lost aces are "the most important games"? Do you not know KT's position in the league at the moment? Match against STX was the most important one and Flash delivered as usual. So did rest of the team in fact, cause they really couldn't afford losing that one - it was this important. Obviously Flash will prepare much better for his next ace games after this string of loses for the sake of his dignity, so if he keeps losing them there won't be excuses. But so far it's not a big deal.
And that is JD's fault he has to practice for OSL now, not Flash's. Flash worked hard to get a tiny bit of free time he has now.
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I hate to make sweeping generalizations about fanbases, but I can't possibly imagine any other fanbase of any other player (Flash, Bisu when he was good, Stork, etc.) possibly trying to argue that their favorite player should be PR #1 less than three weeks after he was crushed 3-0 in a final to a player who also happened to make the other league's final.
Imagine Jaedong makes OSL finals and loses 3-2, then crushes <Bisu or Flash>3-0 in the MSL finals. By the way, <Bisu or Flash> lost in the round of 36 of the last OSL and the Dong has been by far the best individual league player over the past 8 months. The next month, Jaedong has no qualifiers to play and loses a few proleague games (but doesn't play terribly in any of them and still wins more than he loses), while <Bisu or Flash> kick ass in proleague. Would anyone be arguing that Bisu/Flash should be #1 over the Dong? No way.
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On June 18 2010 16:25 darktreb wrote:
I hate to make sweeping generalizations about fanbases, but I can't possibly imagine any other fanbase of any other player (Flash, Bisu when he was good, Stork, etc.) possibly trying to argue that their favorite player should be PR #1 less than three weeks after he was crushed 3-0 in a final to a player who also happened to make the other league's final.
Imagine Jaedong makes OSL finals and loses 3-2, then crushes <Bisu or Flash>3-0 in the MSL finals. By the way, <Bisu or Flash> lost in the round of 36 of the last OSL and the Dong has been by far the best individual league player over the past 8 months. The next month, Jaedong has no qualifiers to play and loses a few proleague games (but doesn't play terribly in any of them and still wins more than he loses), while <Bisu or Flash> kick ass in proleague. Would anyone be arguing that Bisu/Flash should be #1 over the Dong? No way.
Well what then does a monthly power rank mean? It should show who played the best over the month right? I guess, if a player didn't have any games he could get the benefit of the doubt.. but it's just so missleading to say that Flash was the most powerfull player this month. Imo you can drop on the PR and still be the most dominant player, ie the player who's "era we are in". What is so cool with Flash is that he has been the most dominating player every month for atleast 7 months (last month was not that sure...), but this month he hasn't... I'm quite new to TL so maybe I'm wrong, but this seems to me to be the only logical way of making the power rank: otherwise we could just stick to the Kespa rank. Besides JD just got monthly MVP in proleague, atleast they didn't give it to Flash because he "should get it".
And also, Flash got #1 spot the same month he got thrashed by JD 3-1 in the last MSL.
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Monthly rank usually weighs recent events more heavily, but takes into consideration last month's events. Winning a title last month is more relevant than a handful of PL games this month. If there were a title this month that'd obviously have precedence.
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When it suits Flash, consider the last month. When it doesn't, don't.
That argument not doing it for me. But whatever, we'll see what Flash does in the upcoming starleagues where he's earned a free pass in the first few rounds.
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On June 18 2010 23:23 WWJDD wrote:
When it suits Flash, consider the last month. When it doesn't, don't.
That argument not doing it for me. But whatever, we'll see what Flash does in the upcoming starleagues where he's earned a free pass in the first few rounds.
When was the last time in 8 months has ignoring last month helped Flash? The kid has been rock solid since October.
Still early in the month but at the end of October I made the argument that JD should be #1 after Flash went 10-0 and JD had a shaky month as he had done enough to buy a little staying power especially during starleague prelims which he had been seeded beyond. This time I make the same argument except applied to Flash, kid's been incredible for a long stretch, he's seeded beyond the prelim matches so he doesn't have those to pad his stats, he's earned some staying power.
Myself I just think Flash is taking a little breather. In between the last starleague and this one he had like 20 days where he didn't play a single game, I think that helped him tremendously. He has no such luck this time and I think you're seeing it take a toll on him.
Has the gap between them closed a bit? Absolutely. If the ranking came out today should JD be #1? Absolutely not.
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On June 19 2010 00:57 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2010 23:23 WWJDD wrote:
When it suits Flash, consider the last month. When it doesn't, don't.
That argument not doing it for me. But whatever, we'll see what Flash does in the upcoming starleagues where he's earned a free pass in the first few rounds. When was the last time in 8 months has ignoring last month helped Flash? The kid has been rock solid since October. Still early in the month but at the end of October I made the argument that JD should be #1 after Flash went 10-0 and JD had a shaky month as he had done enough to buy a little staying power especially during starleague prelims which he had been seeded beyond. This time I make the same argument except applied to Flash, kid's been incredible for a long stretch, he's seeded beyond the prelim matches so he doesn't have those to pad his stats, he's earned some staying power. Has the gap between them closed a bit? Absolutely. If the ranking came out today should JD be #1? Absolutely not.
Flash also got the #1 spot in October. And the comment for JD being #2 was:
For once, I predict there will be a ruckus about how high Jaedong is on the PR. The truth is, The Tyrant was clearly not at his best in October. Dropping ZvZs to Zero, Hyuk and 815, he looked pretty bad. [...] Of course, he's going to have to seriously pull his weight in November if he wants to stay in the top three for long.
But you're right. It is still early in the month!
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If Flash drops all his ace games this month and JD wins every game, should it knock him off the PR #1?
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On June 19 2010 06:10 WWJDD wrote:
If Flash drops all his ace games this month and JD wins every game, should it knock him off the PR #1?
No. That's not enough. give it another month then.
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On June 19 2010 06:10 WWJDD wrote:
If Flash drops all his ace games this month and JD wins every game, should it knock him off the PR #1?
Jaedong hasn't won too many ace games himself, though.
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Well what then does a monthly power rank mean? It should show who played the best over the month right?
Where do people even get this idea from? It's released monthly, that doesn't mean we have to ignore recent events. Such as a 3-0 finals.
And also, Flash got #1 spot the same month he got thrashed by JD 3-1 in the last MSL.
No, he lost. He didn't "get thrashed". Thrashing is what Flash did to Jaedong in the concurrent OSL's Ro8. You know, the OSL that he won.
Flash #1 is not even a close call right now. Jaedong is playing amazingly and I'm a big fan of his (<3), but if the PR is supposed to be an accurate representation of who's on top in Brood War right now, then putting Flash somewhere other than #1 is just bizarre.
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EPT
