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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
On October 26 2009 06:46 fanatacist wrote: What's different about the climate? Everything? The stage of the leagues we are in, the map pool, new team dynamics and players... You mean because Fantasy and Bisu dropped leagues earlier than Flash? | ||
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
On October 26 2009 06:57 calvinL wrote: Even as a butthurt Flash fan, it makes no sense to follow flawed reasoning from another PR/PR writer. If we're doing that then it means we acknowledge that Flash was definitely out of the top 10 in August, which he wasn't. Right, the point is more that you can't have it both ways. A lot of people who supported Flash being dropped are now trying to keep Bisu and Fantasy towards the top... us Flash fans are throwing off the chains of oppression. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 06:58 Holgerius wrote: Stage of leagues is an interesting point to bring up, because it actually speaks against Bisu and Fantasy if you think about it: Winning in leagues in a late stage = winning against a good opponent. That is good. Winning increases in awesomeness the further you get because of increased skill in your opponents. But losing in leagues in early stages (which Bisu and Fantasy has done) = losing against a worse opponent. Losing in a final is much more acceptable than losing in Ro36. Losing becomes worse the earlier it is. I mentioned the climate not to argue the benefits or detriments to Bisu and Fantasy, and I agree with you about that breakdown. The argument I was trying to forward was that things are NOT the same right now as when Flash dropped spots... So why try to treat it the same? Also, I have no issues with fantasy and Bisu losing spots - that's understandable. I meant that a player like Shine shouldn't be above them, not yet anyways. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
No need to be considering making him #1 on the PR again! | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
On October 26 2009 07:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Don't worry, guys, we've got a classic Flash situation. He has PL duties, playing potentially the two strongest players on Oz (Hiya regular and Jaedong ace) and then he has to play his OSL qualifier in the same day against Mind/Hogil, who will capitalize on an overworked underappreciated little terran. Then TL can happily shout that Flash is terrible and dropped OSL early! No need to be considering making him #1 on the PR again! I think he's going to just chalk up all those wins and break the record ELO. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
On October 26 2009 07:23 Holgerius wrote: I think it's worrying as hell that KT is sending him out for PL the same fucking day as OSL. They don't seem to learn from their mistakes, do they? Yea... I think he's gonna be able to pull it off this time though. Flash Bonjwa. | ||
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IMlemon
Lithuania296 Posts
Yeah I know I contribute so much to this discussion. You're welcome. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 07:14 Holgerius wrote: Ok, fanatacist, lets settle this dumb little discussion. I'll agree with you about not having Movie and Shine above Fantasy and Bisu if you agree with me that having fucking Type-b above Flash was wrong. Because I'm not arguing that keeping Bisu and Fantasy high is wrong, and I'm not arguing that Flash being dropped out is wrong; I'm arguing that you can't consider both of them to be correct. I don't remember the conditions for Flash dropping places, and I never said it was justified or not. I said that using it as a reason to drop Bisu and fantasy is stupid. TwoToneTerran I think I used the word appropriately and maintained a decent discussion kthnxbai | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On October 26 2009 07:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Don't worry, guys, we've got a classic Flash situation. He has PL duties, playing potentially the two strongest players on Oz (Hiya regular and Jaedong ace) and then he has to play his OSL qualifier in the same day against Mind/Hogil, who will capitalize on an overworked underappreciated little terran. Then TL can happily shout that Flash is terrible and dropped OSL early! No need to be considering making him #1 on the PR again! Obvioulsy even if he pulls that out and wins all the games on Tuesday it will be just because he faced weak opponents. Obvioulsy none of them is a S-class player and that's why he can't be in top3. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
He seriously needs to switch teams. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On October 26 2009 07:57 fanatacist wrote: I don't remember the conditions for Flash dropping places, and I never said it was justified or not. I said that using it as a reason to drop Bisu and fantasy is stupid. TwoToneTerran I think I used the word appropriately and maintained a decent discussion kthnxbai I would never, ever, ever qualify anything in the PR threads as "decent discussion."  But the word is diminutive and derogatory for the sake of it, there's absolutely no way you said it with respect to the other person in the conversation, so no, there's no way you used it appropriately and maintained a decent discussion. If you said it sarcastically or something that'd be fine, but using and meaning the word doesn't coexist with fruitful debate. edit: oh and 12 seconds of searching, here's the criteria for dropping Flash from 5th to 3 spots down in CBNC on the PR: + Show Spoiler + (T)Flash has only played five games since last month's PR — probably because he's once again out of both major individual leagues before their quarterfinals. I'm getting pretty tired of the same old "Flash is really good, he just loses all of his games" line. Being alive in the MSL and GOM was enough to keep Flash on July's rank, but there were so many big movers this month that I just couldn't justify keeping him in the top 10. Before you Flash apologists cry foul, stop and think who you'd bump to include him. Canata made it further than Youngho in both the MSL and OSL, Skyhigh won more PL playoff games than Flash played in July (and against much tougher opponents than Flash's), Yarnc just topped him in the OSL Ro16, and Type-b smashed a player whose recent TvZ performance is much better than Flash's. And on top of all that, keep in mind that both Zero, who also bested Flash's MSL and OSL performance, and Kwanro, who 2-1d him in the MSL Ro16 — two players who have been just out of PR contention for a while now — are not even on this rank. He went 6-2 versus all zergs that month, Bisu went 2-2 and maintained third with: + Show Spoiler + Though Bisu is down 0-1 in the MSL quarterfinals after (quite foolishly) allowing Iris's 2-fac push to catch six dragoons deep in his natural, he is in a much less precarious position than Jaedong was against Canata. When the conclusion of his match with Iris finally rolls around on August 4, Bisu will be playing on almost two weeks' undisturbed practice time — a horrifying prospect for Berserker, given that KTY bested Fantasy just one day after his last OSL appearance. Bisu's win vs. Fantasy was a demonstration of his impeccable game sense ("rather than using a specific build I tried to adjust to the given situation") and easily convincing enough to maintain the the Power Rank's third slot. Later on he clarified by saying Bisu was "hypothetically" still the 3rd best player, which kind of indicates that Flash is obviously not 'hypothetically' a top 10 player. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 08:53 TwoToneTerran wrote: I would never, ever, ever qualify anything in the PR threads as "decent discussion." But the word is diminutive and derogatory for the sake of it, there's absolutely no way you said it with respect to the other person in the conversation, so no, there's no way you used it appropriately and maintained a decent discussion. If you said it sarcastically or something that'd be fine, but using and meaning the word doesn't coexist with fruitful debate. Previous page. Not that semantics matter really, so I'm content to stop this line of conversation on neutral terms. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
let it be known that I didn't mind Flash dropping off the PR, just the overall manner of the PR in lieu of that. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 26 2009 07:57 fanatacist wrote: I don't remember the conditions for Flash dropping places, and I never said it was justified or not. I said that using it as a reason to drop Bisu and fantasy is stupid. TwoToneTerran I think I used the word appropriately and maintained a decent discussion kthnxbai I don't even know why I'm arguing with you. We don't seem to disagree about anything, tbh. What got me going was tree.hugger. He is one of those guys who argued that it was right that Flash got knocked out of PR (I recently read the entire thread for that month). He said ''The PR is a list of who is playing the best starcraft right now''. If he sticked with that reasoning, putting Shine and Movie above Bisu would be very much appropriate. But he didn't. Instead he's saying ''It's not a huge deal'' about Fantasy getting knocked out of MSL. When Flash got knocked out it was obviously a huge deal. This cannot be blamed on different writers or anything, it's just tree.hugger flip flopping. And after flip flopping, he accuses me of wanting to have my cake and eat it too. Ironic. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 08:57 Holgerius wrote: I don't even know why I'm arguing with you. We don't seem to disagree about anything, tbh. What got me going was tree.hugger. He is one of those guys who argued that it was right that Flash got knocked out of PR (I recently read the entire thread for that month). He said ''The PR is a list of who is playing the best starcraft right now''. If he sticked with that reasoning, putting Shine and Movie above Bisu would be very much appropriate. But he didn't. Instead he's saying ''It's not a huge deal'' about Fantasy getting knocked out of MSL. When Flash got knocked out it was obviously a huge deal. This cannot be blamed on different writers or anything, it's just tree.hugger flip flopping. And after flip flopping, he accuses me of wanting to have my cake and eat it too. Ironic. I have an abrasive persona and a T1 tag in my signature - probably reasons for our argument. It's cool. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
Come on Flash, nobody will blame you if you don't practice for your match against Hiya and just focus on your OSL match... On October 26 2009 06:58 Orbifold wrote: You mean because Fantasy and Bisu dropped leagues earlier than Flash? Flash dropped 2-1 to the MSL silver medalist, Bisu dropped 2-1 to Shine. This is better for Bisu because, as we all know, Shine is going to win the OSL, so it's not a big deal to lose to the eventual gold medalist. No but seriously, two wrongs don't make a right, just because Flash got screwed in August doesn't mean riptide should screw over Bisu and Fantasy this month. | ||
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