EPThes in the osl & msl with ease as one of the few players.
JD & flash 1/2 effort & stork 4/5 or so. edit forgot calm hes defenatly #3
JD is the osl champion and in both leauge,s few pro leauge wins at season start shouldnt count that hard I think.
Power Rank 10/01/2009 - Page 10
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
hes in the osl & msl with ease as one of the few players. JD & flash 1/2 effort & stork 4/5 or so. edit forgot calm hes defenatly #3 JD is the osl champion and in both leauge,s few pro leauge wins at season start shouldnt count that hard I think. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8554 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 26 2009 02:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: Too many of Flash's games have gone over the 20 minutes marks, that shows a decline in skill imo. Lol, agreed. :D + Show Spoiler + I'm so glad that my Sarcasm Detector is functioning. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
#1.  Flash - He hasn't lost this month. His play has been untouchable. #2.  EffOrt - He hasn't lost this month either. His ZvZ has been absurdly strong, and he was cool, calm, and collected in the face of a clever build from SangHo.#3. Jaedong - It doesn't take much to get cries of "slump" going on TL, especially for the greatest player in SC history. So, he's not at the #1 spot anymore. JvZ looks #4. Calm - He's 9-2 this week, with three wins against FailHo, two against Reality, and one against Rock. Quality of opponents nonwithstanding, Calm's still played some good starcraft this month, especially against Movie. #5.  Bisu - Okay, so we all know that Bisu lost in the OSL to Shine. But he's also gone 3-0 in proleague, and 4-2 on the month. He falls, but not that far. #6. fantasy - Ditto with fantasy. He lost in the MSL, but he's also torn people apart in proleague. We hear all about his losses, but he's still got a winning record in the month, not a huge deal. #7. Luxury - Luxury played his build almost perfectly against EffOrt, and still lost. We know that EffOrt is better than him. But that doesn't eclipse an excellent month for Luxury. He's definitely back. Five contenders for three spots... Hyuk - 5-2 on the month, with a win against JD. Hyuk is starting to look like a dependable zerg. His ZvT is still horrible though. Absolutely terrible. Pusan - Also 5-2 on the month, with a pretty decent strength of opponent. He's in both leagues. But not only that, Pusan is 18-1 against all manner of players since the 24th of Septermber. Movie - He's 7-3 on the month, having defeated some pretty credible opposition, and gotten into the OSL and MSL. Also, he's looking more and more like protoss's only hope in this swarm season. Really - Excellent wins against Kal and Movie, and a very close loss to the probable #1. In fact, he was probably the only challenge Flash faced this month. He lost to Shine, but then again, so has everyone else, apparently. Shine - He's actually 8-3 with wins against Bisu, Violet, sKyHigh, and Really. Really, Shine? Something deep inside me objects to Shine going on the PR. But his results are good. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
I know it's supposed to be mortal, but this almost makes more sense hahaha | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 04:21 Holgerius wrote: Bisu and Fantasy should fall MOAR. :D 4-3 and 4-2, and both of them have gotten their asses knocked out of a league. Both Movie and Shine, for instance, should be ahead of them, they have been way hotter this month; 7-3, 8-3 and both of them has reached both MSL and OSL. If Flash went from No5 to absence in PR when he went 6-2, got knocked out of one league but made in to the finals of another, then Bisu and Fantasy should drop moar. :D The only problem is that PR is not just a measure of win/loss statistics. Bisu and Jaedong are still better players than Movie and Shine on the grand scale. Of course every person's PR is different, but I believe it was Manifesto that said that PR to him is "which player would you least want to face in a series." I doubt anyone would pick Bisu or Jaedong over Shine or Movie if they had a choice of who to play (with the intention to win). Also, butthurt cries about how your player got penalized at some point in time are rarely a justification for any changes in PR. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 26 2009 04:28 fanatacist wrote: The only problem is that PR is not just a measure of win/loss statistics. Bisu and Jaedong are still better players than Movie and Shine on the grand scale. Of course every person's PR is different, but I believe it was Manifesto that said that PR to him is "which player would you least want to face in a series." I doubt anyone would pick Bisu or Jaedong over Shine or Movie if they had a choice of who to play (with the intention to win). Also, butthurt cries about how your player got penalized at some point in time are rarely a justification for any changes in PR. It isn't just stats; Shine beat Bisu in a series, made it into both tournaments AND has a hot record. If you would only go by who is the overall better player Flash, Jaedong and Bisu would be permanent holders of the top 3 spots. Are you telling me there has ever been 10 players you'd be more afraid to face in a series than Flash? In order for the PR to mean something I believe it should be as fair, coherent and consistent as possible, so the treatment should be the same for everybody. Benefit of doubt should be granted to everybody to the same extent, not just a select few. Therefore previous treatment of players, such as the treatment against Flash that I mentioned, is important. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 04:48 Holgerius wrote: It isn't just stats; Shine beat Bisu in a series, made it into both tournaments AND has a hot record. If you would only go by who is the overall better player Flash, Jaedong and Bisu would be permanent holders of the top 3 spots. Are you telling me there has ever been 10 players you'd be more afraid to face in a series than Flash? In order for the PR to mean something I believe it should be as fair, coherent and consistent as possible, so the treatment should be the same for everybody. Benefit of doubt should be granted to everybody to the same extent, not just a select few. Therefore previous treatment of players, such as the treatment against Flash that I mentioned, is important. It isn't either aspect individually. It hasn't been a problem in the past (in terms of people holding permanent positions), but punishment handed out based on a short list of games that we have now to the point of making Bisu or Jaedong below Shine is also a problem. Shine has a good record and is in both leagues, yes that's admirable, but that's not a reason to dump both Bisu and Jaedong who are also still in leagues and have winning records as well. What I meant about the being butthurt and comparing things to Flash is that you fail to assess the climate of the scene back when Flash got punished for his losses and the difference between that and the climate now. Just because Flash fell from 5th place to no place for something at some point doesn't mean that ratio of losses : places lost will carry through to 1. other players 2. other conditions 3. other times. | ||
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
On October 26 2009 05:04 fanatacist wrote: It isn't either aspect individually. It hasn't been a problem in the past (in terms of people holding permanent positions), but punishment handed out based on a short list of games that we have now to the point of making Bisu or Jaedong below Shine is also a problem. Shine has a good record and is in both leagues, yes that's admirable, but that's not a reason to dump both Bisu and Jaedong who are also still in leagues and have winning records as well. What I meant about the being butthurt and comparing things to Flash is that you fail to assess the climate of the scene back when Flash got punished for his losses and the difference between that and the climate now. Just because Flash fell from 5th place to no place for something at some point doesn't mean that ratio of losses:places lost will carry through to 1. other players 2. other conditions 3. other times. Yea, that guy is forgetting the important other condition that SKT player's losses only count as half a loss on the PR. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On October 26 2009 05:13 Orbifold wrote: Yea, that guy is forgetting the important other condition that SKT player's losses only count as half a loss on the PR. Obviously. It's the founding rule on which PR is based, amirite? -_-; | ||
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
On October 26 2009 05:20 fanatacist wrote: Obviously. It's the founding rule on which PR is based, amirite? -_-; For real though, do you think that Flash deserved to be dropped completely from the PR the same month he won GOM and got the most PL wins, but Fantasy and Bisu shouldn't be dropped from the top 5 for having "only" +1 PL records and dropping a league? I would say no to both, but it does not make sense to me to say yes to one and no to the other. | ||
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Fx_
503 Posts
glad to see you | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 26 2009 05:04 fanatacist wrote: It isn't either aspect individually. It hasn't been a problem in the past (in terms of people holding permanent positions), but punishment handed out based on a short list of games that we have now to the point of making Bisu or Jaedong below Shine is also a problem. Shine has a good record and is in both leagues, yes that's admirable, but that's not a reason to dump both Bisu and Jaedong who are also still in leagues and have winning records as well. What I meant about the being butthurt and comparing things to Flash is that you fail to assess the climate of the scene back when Flash got punished for his losses and the difference between that and the climate now. Just because Flash fell from 5th place to no place for something at some point doesn't mean that ratio of losses : places lost will carry through to 1. other players 2. other conditions 3. other times. What I fail to do is realizing what was so immensly different about the climate of the scene like 3 months back compared to now that Flash would drop 5 spots to players he's better than and the same thing mustn't be done to Bisu now. Enlighten me. I feel that either an injustice was done to Flash, or Bisu should drop more than 2 spots. | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On October 26 2009 05:57 Holgerius wrote: What I fail to do is realizing what was so immensly different about the climate of the scene like 3 months back compared to now that Flash would drop 5 spots to players he's better than and the same thing mustn't be done to Bisu now. Enlighten me. I feel that either an injustice was done to Flash, or Bisu should drop more than 2 spots. I think your point is hilarious. If you think Flash was unjustly treated in the August PR, then you're arguing that Bisu and Fantasy should only drop a few spots. If you think his demotion was correct, then you should be arguing that both Bisu and Fantasy should be kicked off the PR entirely. But of course, you want to have your cake and eat it too, so you're using a three month old grievance against the last PR writer to somehow suggest that Bisu and Fantasy should be penalized in a kind of bizarre retaliation. What a pointless argument. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
But on the topic, Bisu and Fantasy were kicked off starleague. That's a big blow to their record. Keeping any of them in top 5 at this time is very problematic especially with Flash, Calm, Effort. I Especially performance of Fantasy is diappointing. Losses to type-b and Stats in MSL seems really unexcusable for a top5/top6 player I think everyone sane would say that Flash was treated unjustly that month when he was dropped out of the PR. If not than both Movie and Shine should be directly above Bisu and Fantasy. And one may throw in Hyuk (the guy just beat Jaedong and qualified to MSL). | ||
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calvinL
Canada416 Posts
On October 26 2009 06:40 Holgerius wrote: I am saying that if Flash lost 5 spots for that, then Bisu and Fantasy should lose more than 2 spots for this month. If they don't, Flash was treated unjustly. But yeah, it's a new PR writer and all, that's true. But if he's going to use this way of looking at things (keeping Bisu and Fantasy very high), which I wouldn't entirely disagree with, then I want the same treatment for Flash and others in the future. Even as a butthurt Flash fan, it makes no sense to follow flawed reasoning from another PR/PR writer. If we're doing that then it means we acknowledge that Flash was definitely out of the top 10 in August, which he wasn't. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On October 26 2009 06:46 fanatacist wrote: What's different about the climate? Everything? The stage of the leagues we are in, the map pool, new team dynamics and players... Stage of leagues is an interesting point to bring up, because it actually speaks against Bisu and Fantasy if you think about it: Winning in leagues in a late stage = winning against a good opponent. That is good. Winning increases in awesomeness the further you get because of increased skill in your opponents. But losing in leagues in early stages (which Bisu and Fantasy has done) = losing against a worse opponent. Losing in a final is much more acceptable than losing in Ro36. Losing becomes worse the earlier it is. | ||
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