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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Wooooooh~~~ new maps!!!!
As reported before, OSL decided to ditch Persona (for it's atrocious balance issues) and Fantasy II (for it's slight balance issues, and used for 2 season). Instead, they will be using the shared PL maps Katrina and Blue Storm, along with the new maps Troy and "악령의숲" (which directly translates to "Demon's Forest").
Here are the new maps.
▶Name: Troy
-Type: Reversed Isle/Land
-Capacity: 4 Players (1, 5, 7, 11 o'clock positions)
-Size: 128 × 128
-Tileset: Desert
-Created by: Earthattack (Kim Eun-suh)
Description: A regular isle/land map is a map that starts off as an island, then becomes land by destroying neutral buildings (Arkanoid). This reversed isle/land map does the opposite. The entrance from your main to your island is semi-blocked by two assimilators. The assimilators, however, are far enough from each other that even ultralisks can pass through. However, if you break the assimilators, the path becomes more narrow and only ghosts can pass through.
My comments: This map has a very confusing and interesting concept. First of all I'm not sure if the that's a cliff or a wall that's blocking the main bases to their nats... it looks very similar to the "ditches" used in Martian Cross (old map) but when you look at the expansions at 3 and 9, they're overlapped by minerals. The description leads me to believe the bases aren't blocked off to their nat, but the design is mis-leading.
The assimilators are also confusing. Apparently if you break them, somehow your path becomes almost completely blocked off. My best guess is that there is a tileset below the assimilators that prevents units from walking through. (are ghosts smaller than zerglings?)
▶Name: '악령의숲' (Demon's Forest)
-Type: Demands for minor battles (길목형 난전맵)
-Capacity: 3 Players (3, 7, 11 o'clock positions)
-Size: 128 × 128
-Tileset: Badlands
-Created by: Str18-02 (Woo Sang-hui)
Description: The map was inspired from the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, a battle when the Roman army is crushed by German tribesmen led by Arminius, who used the harsh terrain to set traps.
The map has large areas of "forests", designed to hinder the player's vision and provide a much higher miss rate, demanding alternate strategies and multiple mini battles rather than large-scale battles.
My comments: At first I thought the tress would make it impossble for units to move... but I guess you can. The miss rate increases from all the tress, so I imagine ranged units have a disadvantage (which leads to a terran disadvantage). There's also a back expo to each base with a cliff. I imagine zergs will have a field day here.
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That Troy concept of having the dead assimilators decrease the path size is weird.
The Forest map looks fucked up too.
Should see some interesting games though :p Thanks L2W
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That Assimilator thing is bizarre. Should lead to some interesting strategies though.
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I think I'll enjoy watching games on the Troy, should be interesting to see how the assimilators are used. I don't like the look of Demon's Forest, but could prove for different strats with the trees. A lot of unbuildable terrain, but also cliffs above the back expansions and tight bridges could be nice for terran.
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I love Demons Forest. Almost brings back the more "Micro Oriented" play.
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These maps are fucking kickass. I can't wait for them to be thrown out so I can play them. I especially like Troy & the assimilators. PvT kill the assimilators & the T is so fucked lol
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United States10774 Posts
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cooler than persona, but maybe more imba than persona?
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Thanks for getting this out, Live2Win 
I'm interested to see how they did Forest - from the image, it looks like doodads interspersed with tree sprites. Hopefully, there won't be too much of the former, or navigating this will really hurt. I have faith, though - this will either produce some great new strategies... or be cast out as a total failure. A good change from pure macro-based maps, though.
And regarding Troy and the Assimilators - very interesting concept; you see, I think the Assims will leave behind Geysers when destroyed, and the collision box for an Assim is much smaller than that of a Geyser, even though that doesn't make much sense. Zerglings and Ghosts have a similarly-sized size in pixels, so yes, lings should definitely be able to make it through.
I'm pretty sure the terrain changes you mention in Troy are just really thin pieces of Crags tiles. As such, they're both walk-able and build-able. Hope I'm not mistaken with that; we'll have to see the games to know for sure.
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wow intersting maps, i can't wait to play these. Just when you think maps can't get any more god damn original they do.
Thanks L2W
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I think the gases are at 0, because if they aren't, 4 gas p in pvz rofl
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On January 11 2008 13:23 FragKrag wrote:
These maps are fucking kickass. I can't wait for them to be thrown out so I can play them. I especially like Troy & the assimilators. PvT kill the assimilators & the T is so fucked lol hmm ur right, if you kill the T's assimilators, how the fuck are they gonna do anything at all? lol
and that forest map, can large units even fit through the trees in the middle?
at least they are interesting concepts
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How much gas to the assimilators have? zero or like 2500?
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wow, very interesting new concepts for both maps!
as for the assimilators: I'm pretty certain when they are destroyed, they reveal a vespane geyser underneath, and the reason the choke becomes smaller is because vespane geysers take up more space than assimilators.
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On January 11 2008 13:23 HellAngel wrote:
I love Demons Forest. Almost brings back the more "Micro Oriented" play.
Yes exactly. And there are no spells/neutral buildings on the map!
Best new map ever of all time since the history of everything.
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so... when the assimilators are destroyed, are geysers under them or what? Cuz if there are, somebody who takes his nat could be getting 4 gas off of 2 base O_O or maybe the geysers are depleted? I dunno, but it looks like a really cool map (don't see any immediate glaring balance issues either, though gols v carriers in the middle of the map looks like it would be really hard).
I don't really understand the whole forest aspect of Demon's Forest. Do the trees limit LoS from units outside the forest? Either way, it looks like the mobility of zerg is going to rape (which means another title for Jaedong!)
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How does the assimilator thing work?
Some sort of UMS script?
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Well destroying the assims means that your units can't get out, so it's basically a sacrifice.
4gas PvZ, but your units can't get out or 2 gas PvZ with units that come out? Though the middle top and bottom expos would be basically impenetrable if you destroyed the assims.
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On January 11 2008 13:26 rushz0rz wrote:
WHEN CAN WE DL???
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How about if you build back the gas on troy? Will the choke become wide again? This could lead into some interesting tactics, i am curious about that map, but i really hate island maps. And Maybe the Demon's forest will do something different with the opening nowadays (who can invent the better FE build).
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On January 11 2008 13:15 Live2Win wrote:
My comments: This map has a very confusing and interesting concept. First of all I'm not sure if the that's a cliff or a wall that's blocking the main bases to their nats... it looks very similar to the "ditches" used in Martian Cross (old map) but when you look at the expansions at 3 and 9, they're overlapped by minerals. The description leads me to believe the bases aren\'t blocked off to their nat, but the design is mis-leading.
Open the mapeditor and pick the desert tileset - what you see there is "high crags" (also available as not elevated terrain "crags" (none on this map though) and it's buildable, doesn't block off anything. It's nothing more than a different colour basically.. (like @ djungle tileset where you have jungle/mud/dirt, which are all buildable).
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On January 11 2008 13:29 datscilly wrote:
wow, very interesting new concepts for both maps!
as for the assimilators: I'm pretty certain when they are destroyed, they reveal a vespane geyser underneath, and the reason the choke becomes smaller is because vespane geysers take up more space than assimilators.
Oh, I thought about that. But I thought geyser and gas had the same sizes.... but as a newb campaign editor I have no real clue. I think that makes more sense though.
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im not really a fan of these maps, they seem TOO extreme...
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On January 11 2008 13:34 Carnac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:15 Live2Win wrote:
My comments: This map has a very confusing and interesting concept. First of all I'm not sure if the that's a cliff or a wall that's blocking the main bases to their nats... it looks very similar to the "ditches" used in Martian Cross (old map) but when you look at the expansions at 3 and 9, they're overlapped by minerals. The description leads me to believe the bases aren\'t blocked off to their nat, but the design is mis-leading.
Open the mapeditor and pick the desert tileset - what you see there is "high crags" (also available as not elevated terrain "crags" (none on this map though) and it's buildable, doesn't block off anything. It's nothing more than a different colour basically.. (like @ djungle tileset where you have jungle/mud/dirt, which are all buildable).
yea that was my guess when I saw the expos at 9 and 3. But at first glance, the way "crags" are surrounding the bases you'd think they're blocking it off.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
oh and i think that forrest thing is a terrible idea..., they should stop trying so hard to find the weirdest thing possible
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these maps bring about some very interesting strategies.
perhaps a zealot rush would be very viable pvt on troy in order to kill the assmiliators.
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On January 11 2008 13:35 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:29 datscilly wrote:
wow, very interesting new concepts for both maps!
as for the assimilators: I'm pretty certain when they are destroyed, they reveal a vespane geyser underneath, and the reason the choke becomes smaller is because vespane geysers take up more space than assimilators. Oh, I thought about that. But I thought geyser and gas had the same sizes.... but as a newb campaign editor I have no real clue. I think that makes more sense though.
I think the Assimilators are more '3d ish' and units can overlap a bit with them, but geysers are just flat 2D. Sort of like how units can overlap with the missile turret.
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Aesthetics :/
And noobienoob, those trees probably aren't all doodads (i.e. restrict movement, sight, and block fire), but more like 1/5 doodads and 4/5 sprites (which look the same, but don't have any gameplay effects besides blocking visuals), though I'm unsure of the ratio, obviously. Large units better be able to fit through.
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omg... demon forest + mass zerglings = $$$$
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On January 11 2008 13:39 Myxomatosis wrote:
these maps bring about some very interesting strategies.
perhaps a zealot rush would be very viable pvt on troy in order to kill the assmiliators.
Once the assimilators are gone, perhaps the terran player can just start refineries at both geysers to open a path
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On January 11 2008 13:39 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:35 Live2Win wrote:On January 11 2008 13:29 datscilly wrote:
wow, very interesting new concepts for both maps!
as for the assimilators: I'm pretty certain when they are destroyed, they reveal a vespane geyser underneath, and the reason the choke becomes smaller is because vespane geysers take up more space than assimilators. Oh, I thought about that. But I thought geyser and gas had the same sizes.... but as a newb campaign editor I have no real clue. I think that makes more sense though. I think the Assimilators are more '3d ish' and units can overlap a bit with them, but geysers are just flat 2D. Sort of like how units can overlap with the missile turret.
i think you have the right idea, it's because assimilators are smaller, if you watch games, units can hug the sides of assimilators fairly tightly almost overlapping it.
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On January 11 2008 13:41 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:39 Myxomatosis wrote:
these maps bring about some very interesting strategies.
perhaps a zealot rush would be very viable pvt on troy in order to kill the assmiliators. Once the assimilators are gone, perhaps the terran player can just start refineries at both geysers to open a path
Good point. Makes sense, too.
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I want lost temple. Anyone?
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Basically to clear up my above post;
If you stack two missile turrets above each other, I think small units etc can pass through because they can overlap with the top part of the turret.
However, if you try the same with Supply depots, it won't work because supply depots overlap with themselves.
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On January 11 2008 13:41 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:39 Myxomatosis wrote:
these maps bring about some very interesting strategies.
perhaps a zealot rush would be very viable pvt on troy in order to kill the assmiliators. Once the assimilators are gone, perhaps the terran player can just start refineries at both geysers to open a path
same with protoss, mass archons maybe? :D
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On January 11 2008 13:34 Bazse wrote:
How about if you build back the gas on troy? Will the choke become wide again? This could lead into some interesting tactics, i am curious about that map, but i really hate island maps. And Maybe the Demon's forest will do something different with the opening nowadays (who can invent the better FE build).
that's an interesting point. If the geyser is under the assimilators (which seem more likely now) and they're rebuilt with extractors or refineries, do the sizes change from the assimilator size?
And I'm guessing the gases would have 0, since 4 gas is just imba. Although if I was z I would take those gasses still, since depleted geysers still give you gas, and that gas will accumulate over time... (then again that's like 8 extra drones... hmm)
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so could players rebuild their assimilators on Troy to let units pass through again? would this work for all three races?
edit: wow how did i miss all those other posts asking the same thing
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There might be different qualities for Extractors, Assimilators, & Refineries. Though it should work for Protoss.
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These maps are pretty messed up. The map makers don't even seem to care about balance or whatnot anymore. They just like to see pretty colors.
Demon's forest looks like some kind of map that's been roughly sandpapered.
And just wondering, on Troy, are those islands next to each main? Cuz like...4...island...expos...and they're huge too. I think these maps have the potential to be either extremely fun or extremely stupid and lame.
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On January 11 2008 13:42 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:34 Bazse wrote:
How about if you build back the gas on troy? Will the choke become wide again? This could lead into some interesting tactics, i am curious about that map, but i really hate island maps. And Maybe the Demon's forest will do something different with the opening nowadays (who can invent the better FE build). that's an interesting point. If the geyser is under the assimilators (which seem more likely now) and they're rebuilt with extractors or refineries, do the sizes change from the assimilator size? And I'm guessing the gases would have 0, since 4 gas is just imba. Although if I was z I would take those gasses still, since depleted geysers still give you gas, and that gas will accumulate over time... (then again that's like 8 extra drones... hmm)
Hmm this is pretty weird I was just playing around with the editor and it looks as if assimilators and geysers have exactly the same shape. In the orientation that the two assimilators are, there's a pretty wide gap between the two buildings, but there would be a pretty wide gap for geysers, too, so I dunno.
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Interesting map designs, but Demon's Forest looks ugly, and confusing to spectate.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
In any case I'm sure we will see some awesome cheese builds on Troy
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Hmmm, if the players could rebuild their gases, then those can work like gates. You can open them and let your guys out/in or destroy them to prevent enemy from coming in (Or escaping! If you trap them in one of the mains.)
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On January 11 2008 13:26 Sunyveil wrote:
cooler than persona, but maybe more imba than persona?
What are you talking about, Persona sucks ass man.
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From niteReloaded's blog post on walls:
Similar situation here. The question is whether the different gas buildings of each race, despite being the same size, have different walling properties.
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On January 11 2008 13:55 KTFKentatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:26 Sunyveil wrote:
cooler than persona, but maybe more imba than persona? What are you talking about, Persona sucks ass man.
I dunno, I think mirror matchups were pretty cool on it, as well as most of the new maps (TvT on Katrina is absolutely amazing), but the non-mirrors were pretty lame
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On January 11 2008 13:56 Blind wrote:
Similar situation here. The question is whether the different gas buildings of each race, despite being the same size, have different walling properties.
oO; That explains it.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On January 11 2008 13:54 crazie-penguin wrote:
Hmmm, if the players could rebuild their gases, then those can work like gates. You can open them and let your guys out/in or destroy them to prevent enemy from coming in (Or escaping! If you trap them in one of the mains.)
That's the concept they had in mind. I didn't do the concept translation like I did for Demon's Forest (I didn't want to dig up the history -.- , but that's basically what they said.
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demon's forest looks fun
troy has such a weird concept
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On January 11 2008 13:56 Blind wrote:From niteReloaded's blog post on walls: Similar situation here. The question is whether the different gas buildings of each race, despite being the same size, have different walling properties.
That is fucking amazing.
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PvZ will be strange on forest. 2gate will be pretty strong, but FE for protoss isn't even a possibility anymore. Cannons can't defend both nat and main...
ZvT? With everything of T being range.... doesnt zerg have a nice advantage?
PvT... clumps of goons dont look like they would do well. clumps of tanks either, but who knows
kinda awesome
other map... i really have no idea how it'll play out.
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troy will be interesting at least
demon's forest just looks bad, the map itself. its like they just took a bad 3 player map and stuck alot of trees in the middle.
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woa shit nice really looking forward to what the koreans are gona do now
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On January 11 2008 14:03 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
PvZ will be strange on forest. 2gate will be pretty strong, but FE for protoss isn't even a possibility anymore. Cannons can't defend both nat and main...
ZvT? With everything of T being range.... doesnt zerg have a nice advantage?
PvT... clumps of goons dont look like they would do well. clumps of tanks either, but who knows
kinda awesome
other map... i really have no idea how it'll play out.
The expo is in the back of the base. Sort of like the expos in Zodiac, so I assume that Protoss FE will work just as well :p
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Canada7170 Posts
Very innovative concepts. I cannot wait to see some games unleashed on these.
Especially looking forward to Troy.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
FE on Troy would be so lol if they cheesed and took out the assimilators
In fact any cheese -> assimilator destroying rush would be massive lol
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On January 11 2008 13:26 MidnightGladius wrote:Thanks for getting this out, Live2Win And regarding Troy and the Assimilators - very interesting concept; you see, I think the Assims will leave behind Geysers when destroyed
GENIUS!!
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On January 11 2008 14:03 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
PvZ will be strange on forest. 2gate will be pretty strong, but FE for protoss isn't even a possibility anymore. Cannons can't defend both nat and main...
ZvT? With everything of T being range.... doesnt zerg have a nice advantage?
No not at all. It is very hard to flank due to the extra collisions on the forest.
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MUST DOWNLOAD AND HOST MANY PLAY/OBS WITH THESE MAPS NOW!!
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United States33432 Posts
personally I think "wraith's forest" or "haunted forest" is a better translation, but just a nitpick :D
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Osaka27152 Posts
Does anyone else think that by starting on the bottom of troy you have a decent advantage, because the ramps to both 3 and 9 point south?
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"demonic forest"
these should either make for some interesting or very cheesy games
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yes, very weird maps.
some may not like it, but its guaranteed to give some interesting games w/ new play styles and new cheeses of course ^ ^
The Demonic Forest map, looks the craziest..
and Troy.. well, the Assimilators make things crazy for that one, other than that, it looks almost similar to katrina or Un'Goro crator etc.. (cept for the wide-open middle =b)
and ya, im sure once the assim's are destroyed, it's prolly a depleted vespene geyser under it.
gL
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Time to bring out my patented firebat/tank strat in TvP for that crazy forest shit.
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United States20661 Posts
What interesting maps! hahaha
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On January 11 2008 13:56 Sunyveil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:55 KTFKentatsu wrote:On January 11 2008 13:26 Sunyveil wrote:
cooler than persona, but maybe more imba than persona? What are you talking about, Persona sucks ass man. I dunno, I think mirror matchups were pretty cool on it, as well as most of the new maps (TvT on Katrina is absolutely amazing), but the non-mirrors were pretty lame
Hehe =) oh yeah right. I remeber Hwasin and another Terran using mainly vults on this map. Still, I hope the two new maps will be much better than Persona has to offer.
Let's hope we won't see permanent psi-storms and D webs on new maps! hehehehe
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I so want to play on Demonic Forest. Troy looks pretty interesting with the assims too.
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United States33432 Posts
and christ, what the hell were they thinking
obscuring vision is cool and all, but it also obscures clarity for the viewers, which is an absolute no-no
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The forest map looks very cool.
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nice maps...especially demon forest...since it is a diadvantage to T!!!!
troy looks intresting 2 which will lead to an air battle i think!
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On January 11 2008 14:49 Waxangel wrote:
and christ, what the hell were they thinking
obscuring vision is cool and all, but it also obscures clarity for the viewers, which is an absolute no-no
I think they mean unit vision. If you stand behind a tree, then that unit's vision will be cut off right behind the tree. Although in larg numbers I don't think it'll be that different.
And for the name, I was trying to look for a more natural name and came up with a few others.... my personal favorite is "Forbidden Forest".
:p
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On January 11 2008 13:15 Live2Win wrote:
...
Description: The map was inspired from the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, a battle when the Roman army is crushed by German tribesmen led by Arminius, who used the harsh terrain to set traps.
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he_he iam living in osnabrück, its very close to the teutoburg forest
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United States5262 Posts
That 2nd natural... wow imagine how difficult it would be to protect that from siege tanks in trees. Oh the headaches. Hopefully this pushes the players to more low eco-high micro strategies!
See more 1 base triple rax or 2 factory builds.
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On January 11 2008 14:09 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 14:03 SpiritoftheTuna wrote:
PvZ will be strange on forest. 2gate will be pretty strong, but FE for protoss isn't even a possibility anymore. Cannons can't defend both nat and main...
ZvT? With everything of T being range.... doesnt zerg have a nice advantage?
PvT... clumps of goons dont look like they would do well. clumps of tanks either, but who knows
kinda awesome
other map... i really have no idea how it'll play out. The expo is in the back of the base. Sort of like the expos in Zodiac, so I assume that Protoss FE will work just as well :p
ohhh i didn't see the backyard
hmmm
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I really just hope that a new map can come in to replace "Python" cause I hate that map so much.
First it was LT
Then Luna
Then Tau Cross (love this map)
Now Python
Yuck~
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What do you think of this gas rebuilding balance? I think terrans will have a huge advantage on it, since they can suspend a building's construction (clicking cancel while the constructor scv is selected), while other races can not. This would mean that terrans can comfortably build the refineries and walk in and out with tanks, and if they are in danger, 2 clicks, and the half-build refineries are gone in a second, and the only enemy unit that can come through are marines, ghosts and lings. Meanwhile, if the other races are in danger, they have to kill their gas buildings (imo damaging them to several hp won't work very well, hence both p and z has some regeneration on buildings. I think this could lead to serious balance issues.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
that haunted forest map (using waxangel's preferred translation because he's mega cool).. it's probably really fun and innovative to play on, but the fact that the trees will hide all the units and action makes me wonder why on earth they chose it for TV play
and i can't wait to 8rax and kill those assimilators in tvp. suck on that, goons!
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Valhalla18444 Posts
also I agree with mani in that positional balance on Troy will be affected by the ramps at 3 and 9. those bases should either have two ramps or a ramp that stretches vertically, which of course we know is possible now.
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Canada7170 Posts
Aw man what if a player gets the green coloured units? O_O
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Should the Troy map be imba? Protoss can rewiden their gap by building assims on top of the geysers (if they were destroyed), so their choke will always be open.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 11 2008 15:13 p4fn2w wrote:
Should the Troy map be imba? Protoss can rewiden their gap by building assims on top of the geysers (if they were destroyed), so their choke will always be open.
you can get the same effect by building any race's vespene collection building
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On January 11 2008 15:09 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
and i can't wait to 8rax and kill those assimilators in tvp. suck on that, goons! lol then you'll get contained into your base with goons camping your gate til you get siege mode up, meanwhile the toss will double expand into carriers  hahahaha carriers look hella nasty on this map too ;(
edit: nvm im dumb lol
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Valhalla18444 Posts
offensive 8rax, kill THEIRS. notice how theres like no room for gateways outside them?
not kill my own why would i do that
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These maps look interesting especially the forest thing ;;
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the Troy map looks for Terran to me cuz it looks like geometry and demon's forest looks for Protoss becuz it kinda looks like Loki to me :D but who knows i could be wrong
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So if you destroy the assimilators and build your own, you can mine from dual depleted geysers? Seems like it could be worth it, especially for zerg.
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On January 11 2008 15:07 Bazse wrote:
What do you think of this gas rebuilding balance? I think terrans will have a huge advantage on it, since they can suspend a building's construction (clicking cancel while the constructor scv is selected), while other races can not. This would mean that terrans can comfortably build the refineries and walk in and out with tanks, and if they are in danger, 2 clicks, and the half-build refineries are gone in a second, and the only enemy unit that can come through are marines, ghosts and lings. Meanwhile, if the other races are in danger, they have to kill their gas buildings (imo damaging them to several hp won't work very well, hence both p and z has some regeneration on buildings. I think this could lead to serious balance issues.
Woah, cant wait to see a progamer use that technique
Well, from what I learnt about map, the more unique the map is, the more imbalanced it is
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The technique will work ok for early game aggression but unless terran wants to play 1 base all game they're going to have to leave the assim wall. I think protoss will benefit nicely from this new map feature by unlocking the gate quickly with a probe
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United States7488 Posts
On January 11 2008 15:12 mikeymoo wrote:
Aw man what if a player gets the green coloured units? O_O
You can always view opponent's units as red colored.
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Germany2762 Posts
of course you can destroy the assims, but the terran can still put tow new refineries onto it.
edit
luckily they put assims there instead of refineries. because then terran players would be able to repair them T_T
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are these maps out for testing?? sounds imba and confusing.
I not into melee maps but in UMS custom tiles are everywhere.
If the geysers are NOT on the grids, you CAN'T build on to them. (if i am not mistaken)
in a TvP, i think offensive bunker would win this, then tech to sieged tanks.
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Demon's Forest... TvP will be hard on that map -.-
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On January 11 2008 15:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 15:13 p4fn2w wrote:
Should the Troy map be imba? Protoss can rewiden their gap by building assims on top of the geysers (if they were destroyed), so their choke will always be open. you can get the same effect by building any race's vespene collection building
On January 11 2008 15:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
offensive 8rax, kill THEIRS. notice how theres like no room for gateways outside them?
not kill my own why would i do that
cant he spend 100 minerals and make another assimilator? I think you'd actually be behind if you went 8 rax.
If you cant build new assim tho, that would be a pretty nasty strat.
Reaver would be 1 of the few things you'd have to prep for.
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thank you for the update l2w... I like the fresh concept of the maps but dunno if their gonna be fun to play on. Lets see some games
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If the information in the first post is correct, it must be custom tiles, so either not a geyser when you destroy it, or an unbuildable one. I made a map to test that assimilator layout, and only small units and hydras fit through with the assimilators, only ghosts fit with refineries, and nothing fits with geysers or extractors.
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I dont really like the troy map except for the assimilator thing. The other one looks really cool but TvP looks sorta annoying cuz it will be hard to setup in that tree field
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I think the players wont be able to build anything after the assimilators are destroyed, but if they will, they could always destroy ONE of them in order to get more gas.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 11 2008 17:29 KingFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 15:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On January 11 2008 15:13 p4fn2w wrote:
Should the Troy map be imba? Protoss can rewiden their gap by building assims on top of the geysers (if they were destroyed), so their choke will always be open. you can get the same effect by building any race's vespene collection building Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 15:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
offensive 8rax, kill THEIRS. notice how theres like no room for gateways outside them?
not kill my own why would i do that cant he spend 100 minerals and make another assimilator? I think you'd actually be behind if you went 8 rax. If you cant build new assim tho, that would be a pretty nasty strat. Reaver would be 1 of the few things you'd have to prep for.
how's he gonna rebuild assimilators if i have bunkers he can't kill? range goons cant hit a bunker from behind an obstacle, and bunkered marines will be able to hit that obstacle
i mean hes basically waiting for reaver at that point, which means reaver drop or dt drop are the most likely options assuming i successfully bunker those assimilators... if i make preparing for those options a priority i'm sure it can be an effective build haha
who knows? my execution sucks anyway
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
i dont think the assims will leave behind geysers >_>
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they threw away persona and fantasy because of balace issues..
what about katrina?
14 - 5 p v t
22 - 11 p v z
lol...
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Hungary11300 Posts
Is anyone else wondering how annoying lurkers will be in those woods? Your army is trailing through the trees, seeing barely anything, suddenly spikes from left, spikes from right with a paranoid feeling to it. Maybe even trouble with targetting due to nearby trees, who knows.
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Maps keep getting weirder and weirder. Can't wait to see gosus play on it
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I was never a fan of Neo Arkanoid so I'm feeling pretty sceptical about Troy. Please prove me wrong.
The Demon's Forest-map really has my attention though. It sounds as if it could be a zerg-heaven indeed, but I think protoss could do really well here also. I always figured protoss like many skirmishes with lower unit counts, where their fewer and stronger units can shine, not to mention the possibility to rescharge shields between said skirmishes.
Could be some dropship-play inc. from terrans on this one? Just a thought.
Anywho, it's always refreshing with new maps. To my SC-interest a new spark it ignites every time, it does.
Ps. As a huge fan of ancient history, the whole Teutoburg Forest inspiration totally has me hooked. "Varus give me back my zealo... uh I mean legions!"
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On January 11 2008 18:54 drug_vict1m wrote:
they threw away persona and fantasy because of balace issues..
what about katrina?
14 - 5 p v t
22 - 11 p v z
lol...
Katrina is clearly fine!
No, really, I agree. Katrina, if any map, should be removed due to balance issues.
It's too carrier-friendly and generally too open to protoss maneuvering and various drops.
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i think lurkers will rape m+m forces so badly on demons forest....
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Yeah, imagine all the marine vs lurker micro in the forest!
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
Mass Wraiths then  , also with the forest I think it would be to easy to hold 3 expos at once, I haven't gone as far in my thought process of how thats going to affect different races and the game but I know it will be interesting!
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They DO look really imba....
In Demon/Wraith/Haunted Forest, i hav some worries against T....
The backyard expo seems vulnerable to tanks if they can be placed on the cliffs but im not sure.
Also, 3 o'clocks backyard expo seems like its in the range of tanks from what seems to be the 3o'clock nat or the min only. Can someone clarify this for me? Thanks in advance.
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I'm counting on you Emperor !
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About the ASSIMILATOR thing:
It's a blizzard slip up, that they didn't bother to fix since 1.00
It's just that both the assimilator and refinery have a smaller size then the vespene geyser, with the assimilator being the smaller of the two and only the zerg extractor has the same size as the vespene geyser.
Since I dunno how exactly are they spaced and if the 4 positions are even balanced regarding to the different race gas buildings, I dunno how much it screws the different races if they rebuild them.
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On January 11 2008 13:28 noobienoob wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2008 13:23 FragKrag wrote:
These maps are fucking kickass. I can't wait for them to be thrown out so I can play them. I especially like Troy & the assimilators. PvT kill the assimilators & the T is so fucked lol hmm ur right, if you kill the T's assimilators, how the fuck are they gonna do anything at all? lol
Warp in new assimilators?
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On January 11 2008 19:47 Pulimuli wrote:
i think lurkers will rape m+m forces so badly on demons forest....
yep, but gollies will rape mutas too so terrans will have a big incentice to go metal vs zerg. Zerg going crqax/swarm tho will be hard to handle
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I very much like this new mechanic with the assimilators, but the gas/expo amount on that map is ridiculous.
The forest map is just cool.
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On January 11 2008 14:22 Manifesto7 wrote:
Does anyone else think that by starting on the bottom of troy you have a decent advantage, because the ramps to both 3 and 9 point south?
Yes it looks quite positionally imbalanced to me too. It's easier to get to that point from the South, and in Terran's MUs that's a good position for siege tanks to look over the big entrance ramp. Meele units will have a harder time.
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Hmm, in the Demon Forest map it seems as though you can't see ANY units underneath the trees ... does this mean you have to rely completely on sound and the minimap or something?
Is so then that is AWESOME
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Melbourne5338 Posts
On January 11 2008 22:26 Equinox_kr wrote:
Hmm, in the Demon Forest map it seems as though you can't see ANY units underneath the trees ... does this mean you have to rely completely on sound and the minimap or something?
Is so then that is AWESOME
Wouldn't that be bad for watching on TV?
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wat happens if only 1 assimilator is destroyed
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Woah fucking love these new maps! Can't wait to see them in action! Love the gas and the tree thing. Now i'm hyped fo OSL!!!
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The longer I look at Troy the worse it looks for zerg.
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Nice news, thanks L2W
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Drops seem to be an option...
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plz excuse newb question. when and where can we dl? the only way to answer questions and generally check these maps out is to a. play them and b. see the pros. play them.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
lol i lovet his time of the year...
mapdori goes down every hour with people wanting to get their hands on the map
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Demon Forest looks nice but i hate this shit with neutral buildings on troy.
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Zurich15348 Posts
I predict a 82% win ratio for Flash on Troy. The map stinks of cheese.
I hope the forest won't make watching the game too much of an annoyance. Other than that, I think we're going to see some pretty cool games on both maps.
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Calgary25981 Posts
I think this is the worst bunch of maps I've seen lately. A good map should be open to all play styles. I guess they are trying to drive new play styles with these maps, but I don't appreciate it. Typically these new maps are forcing people to play a certain way with their gimmicks introducing a completely dominant strategy.
Troy is not bad, considering it looks like a fairly standard map with this geyser trick put in. I'd expect to see Reaver/Sair in every PvZ, considering there's 4 islands and the chokes to the mains are basically useless. PvT looks pretty easy on it as well; Again 4 islands and Vulture harass is basically negligable. Not to mention when Carriers start harassing mains and closing the chokes continually. TvZ will probably be fine because it's usually unaffected by gimmicks like this, and the terrain looks fairly standard. I expect to see A LOT of facepalm moments where you get super annoying because the guy dropped you and closed your choke.
Forest map... ugh. Taking away naturals didn't work in Nemesis, and it's not going to work on this piece of shit. Seems like Zerg are going to have a field day (again) on this map in both matchups, considering melee-based Zerg is viable in all matchups. I'm not looking forward to PvT either. Dragoons missing Mines, Zealots roaming free, ugh. If anything, this map will have good mirror matchups, but I think every other matchup is going to suck ass to watch on this (if they play standard).
I'm looking forward to a lot of shitty games with stupid builds and ridiculous tactics. Hooray!
(I hope I'm wrong)
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Map creator of Troy's name is "Kim-Eung-Seo" not "Kim Eun-suh."
Chill, I'm pretty sure you and 50 other people say that every fucking year lol. "If they play standard," Well hopefully they're not retarded enough to play standard on a non-standard map. One of the most frustrating things about being a mapper is that people are unwilling to try new things. If people like you had your way, we'd all still be playing Lost Temple and Hunters.
On Demon's Forest, I fully expect heavy Firebat ratios to become a standard part of Terran player's unit mixes Maybe with mines to screw up lurkers. That or Terran will bunker up in their main and do drop kind of strategies.
PS: The definition of standard changes with maps anyway. Remember a time when FE with Terran or Toss seemed ridiculous?
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 12 2008 01:28 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
Map creator of Troy's name is "Kim-Eung-Seo" not "Kim Eun-suh."
Chill, I'm pretty sure you and 50 other people say that every fucking year lol. "If they play standard," Well hopefully they're not retarded enough to play standard on a non-standard map. One of the most frustrating things about being a mapper is that people are unwilling to try new things. If people like you had your way, we'd all still be playing Lost Temple and Hunters.
Yes we do, and look at Nemesis, Loki, Persona. Who was right?
Edit: Forgot BGH (Baekmagoji)
Edit 2: The point is that an ideal map allows every strategy to be viable. Perhaps it pushs you in one direction because of terrain or whatnot, but they should all be viable. Having a completely dominant "winning" strategy because of people "trying new things" is beyond stupid and is the definition of a terrible map. You don't force gameplay decisions with maps, that's not the job of a mapper.
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Teutoburg Forest yeah ;D
the maps look very weird.. cant wait to play them
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So? I remember a lot of GGs on those maps. If you're talking about stats being imbalanced on those maps, the sample is way to small to make any judgments, even Katrina (a fan favourite), has really imbalanced stats. Honestly, statistics are stupid. It's up to good players to overcome maps (which maybe sounds brutal, but it's happened in the past).
Ex: Think of every final in the past two years. How many of those had one player 'overcoming a map unfavourable to his race?' How many 'upsets' have happened, based on what people though about the map? ;P
Edit 2: The point is that an ideal map allows every strategy to be viable. Perhaps it pushs you in one direction because of terrain or whatnot, but they should all be viable. Having a completely dominant "winning" strategy because of people "trying new things" is beyond stupid and is the definition of a terrible map. You don't force gameplay decisions with maps, that's not the job of a mapper.
Almost all maps today FORCE you to pretty much FE every game. How the fuck is that making all strategies viable? How often do you see one base strategies? NEVER, and you wanna know why? Because the maps make them near impossible to play! You'll never see a Terran with a StarPort before he's expoed these days, but it used to happen all the time. And I'm not saying any map should have a dominant "winning" strategy. I'm saying that strategy shouldn't always be macro whore.
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Calgary25981 Posts
I'm not talking about statistics, I'm talking about Zergs getting the shit kicked out of them on Baekmagoji and being unable to lose on Persona. I'm talking about shitty games, not the results and statistics. Notice how I didn't include Blue Storm, Katrina, or countless other statistically imbalanced maps? Because it's a very interesting map, with a little of flare and viability despite being imbalanced.
I don't know how you are PRO imbalanced maps? This is StarCraft, not MapQuest, and the role of the mapper is to remain have as little affect on the gameplay as possible.
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If that were true, there'd be no such thing as a map without a cliff above the natural. The role of the mapper is to keep StarCraft interesting. Zerg can't lose on Persona? I believe Jaedong, the latest hot stuff lost on it
When did I say I was pro imbalance? I've never said I was pro-one-dominating strategy either. Infact, I'm pretty sure it's nearly impossible for one strategy to always dominate in StarCraft, because the reason this game is so good, is that it's a game of incomplete information. But you don't seem to agree with that. You seem to treat it like a game of chess, where the more exact counters you know, the more standard your moves, the better a player you are. Well guess what. Chess is a game of complete information. There is never a consistent best move in StarCraft (unless it's a tiny map where you know for a fact what your opponent has to be doing).
Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree ;P I'm pretty sure Troy is gonna be an awesome map when it hits the circuit, and Demon's Forest has some potential.
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Good newspost, interesting maps. Looking forward to see some exciting games on these.
Thanks for posting live2win. Thanks a lot.
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On January 12 2008 01:54 Chill wrote:
I'm not talking about statistics, I'm talking about Zergs getting the shit kicked out of them on Baekmagoji and being unable to lose on Persona. I'm talking about shitty games, not the results and statistics. Notice how I didn't include Blue Storm, Katrina, or countless other statistically imbalanced maps? Because it's a very interesting map, with a little of flare and viability despite being imbalanced.
I don't know how you are PRO imbalanced maps? This is StarCraft, not MapQuest, and the role of the mapper is to remain have as little affect on the gameplay as possible.
I don't think so, the rol of a mapper its make an entertaining map, affect the gameplay ITS THEIR JOB... are very few maps "balanced", and its too difficult to see what will happened in Pro scene... the mappers receive money, but they many times make mistakes, you, me or anyone in this forum are incapable of know the future, but sooner or later, the pro players and statistics of their games will prove the job of the mappers, and the only thing that i can be sure is that the JOB OF THE MAPPERS WILL AFFECT THE GAMEPLAY AND THE SHOW =)
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 12 2008 02:07 PsycHOTemplar wrote:If that were true, there'd be no such thing as a map without a cliff above the natural. The role of the mapper is to keep StarCraft interesting. Zerg can't lose on Persona? I believe Jaedong, the latest hot stuff lost on it When did I say I was pro imbalance? I've never said I was pro-one-dominating strategy either. Infact, I'm pretty sure it's nearly impossible for one strategy to always dominate in StarCraft, because the reason this game is so good, is that it's a game of incomplete information. But you don't seem to agree with that. You seem to treat it like a game of chess, where the more exact counters you know, the more standard your moves, the better a player you are. Well guess what. Chess is a game of complete information. There is never a consistent best move in StarCraft (unless it's a tiny map where you know for a fact what your opponent has to be doing). Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree ;P I'm pretty sure Troy is gonna be an awesome map when it hits the circuit, and Demon's Forest has some potential.
Okay great, take my obvious exaggeration and apply one example and declare it defeated.
In between you talking down to me, you sputter some blatant lies. Yes there are dominant strategies, as in "If a race does this build on this map, he will win more than he will lose." This is a dominant build. Even if the other player does the counter build, he is losing more. That is a direct fault of the map maker, and takes strategy and diversity away from the game.
My entire point rests on the fact that StarCraft is a game of incomplete information. When you select your initial build you often haven't even scouted at that point, so you try to maximize your chance to win by taking into account your opponent, current trends, and the map. If the map provides such a dominant strategy, all these mind games become moot. You are forcing players to mindlessly do this build and win more than they lose, and damning the opponent to try all-ins because he has no other option.
You are obviously a mapper, and I am obviously a player, so our opinions cannot be unskewed. I think you are giving way too much freedom to impact the game.
We'll have to wait and see how these maps turn out.
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On January 12 2008 02:49 Chill wrote:
We'll have to wait and see how these maps turn out.
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I think its great to see different maps having different ways how theyre played. That lets the player experiment and apply their style to a "virgin" map first before going for the "best" build. That way many interesting games are played.
These maps truly feel new. Not standard maps with a little different layout. Cant wait to play them and especially to see the pros show off some cool stuff.
@Chill
Look at War3. Theyre playing Turtle Rock for years now. You hardly see some new interesting maps there. Just because people want to play the standard game (because its the one most balanced).
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Im really looking forward for the forest map one.
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I want to see Boxer on Troy. Too bad its only for the OSL.
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Troy looks nice.
Demon Forest looks awful. DMZ level awful.
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 12 2008 03:17 Senix wrote:
@Chill
Look at War3. Theyre playing Turtle Rock for years now. You hardly see some new interesting maps there. Just because people want to play the standard game (because its the one most balanced).
That has nothing to do with anything I said. You can have different maps that lend themselves to different tactics while they are using standard strategies.
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On January 12 2008 01:47 PsycHOTemplar wrote:So? I remember a lot of GGs on those maps. If you're talking about stats being imbalanced on those maps, the sample is way to small to make any judgments, even Katrina (a fan favourite), has really imbalanced stats. Honestly, statistics are stupid. It's up to good players to overcome maps (which maybe sounds brutal, but it's happened in the past). Ex: Think of every final in the past two years. How many of those had one player 'overcoming a map unfavourable to his race?' How many 'upsets' have happened, based on what people though about the map? ;P Show nested quote +
Edit 2: The point is that an ideal map allows every strategy to be viable. Perhaps it pushs you in one direction because of terrain or whatnot, but they should all be viable. Having a completely dominant "winning" strategy because of people "trying new things" is beyond stupid and is the definition of a terrible map. You don't force gameplay decisions with maps, that's not the job of a mapper.
Almost all maps today FORCE you to pretty much FE every game. How the fuck is that making all strategies viable? How often do you see one base strategies? NEVER, and you wanna know why? Because the maps make them near impossible to play! You'll never see a Terran with a StarPort before he's expoed these days, but it used to happen all the time. And I'm not saying any map should have a dominant "winning" strategy. I'm saying that strategy shouldn't always be macro whore.
players are better nowadays too, thats why one base terran doesnt work as well, if you get down its almost impossible to comeback so its better to just expand.
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i get this idea that demon forest is gonna b a terran graveyard.
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The tree map looks really cool! I don't see how protoss has a chance vs terran on it though.
edit: troy looks pretty ugly with those geysers.
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On January 12 2008 06:28 jtan wrote:
The tree map looks really cool! I don't see how protoss has a chance vs terran on it though.
edit: troy looks pretty ugly with those geysers.
Why?
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I am also not certain of the way troy looks. I mean it looks visually weird. Demon's forest seems very interesting. I've often dreamt of a map with an actual forest in the middle, and not just a couple trees here and there.
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I don't think it is all that bad, I think progaming is in need of those maps. Can't be all macro maps? I mean at least they bring a different kind of macro if they are macro maps. Actually I'm also pretty happy they are not two players map with few expands, I find them harder for zerg because the protoss can't just take 3 exps and play defensively then smash you down.
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yakii
Korea (South)1448 Posts
If you can read Korean, I recommend to read this article by seung yeon, cho who made Persona.
Summery : 1 tile has 32X32 dots and unit path is determinded by dots and each units and ground buildings has different sizes(I.E, Assimilator is smaller than vespene gas layerm terran refinery, zerg extractor). so, if there are many dot spaces to the small biuldings, large units can path through. If not, only small units or no units can do.
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The first map I ever made with the campaign editor was just tons of trees. I didn't know that trees blocked ranged attacks I just thought it would be cool if a map was. I had no concept of expansions or anything but my map essentially looked like that. it was even the same tileset
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On January 12 2008 06:42 2BearqLoza wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2008 06:28 jtan wrote:
The tree map looks really cool! I don't see how protoss has a chance vs terran on it though.
edit: troy looks pretty ugly with those geysers. Why?
because the trees will screw up (probably) the pathing for zealots. dragoons will suffer from the trees more than siege tanks.
Really though, I dont see a way to play this map tvz without relying heavily on drops.
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On January 12 2008 07:19 yakii wrote:If you can read Korean, I recommend to read this article by seung yeon, cho who made Persona. Summery : 1 tile has 32X32 dots and unit path is determinded by dots and each units and ground buildings has different sizes(I.E, Assimilator is smaller than vespene gas layerm terran refinery, zerg extractor). so, if there are many dot spaces to the small biuldings, large units can path through. If not, only small units or no units can do.
Basicly what I said already... and "dots" = pixels.
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downloads! Troy is here and Demon Forest is here but the download link is busted
edit: ARGH I am a retard... they don't have the maps there as they have not actually been released yet >.< /facepalm
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Wow I cant wait to download and try both of these. But better yet will be watching some awesome games I think.
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downloads! Troy is here and Demon Forest is here but the download link is busted
:X Read the first post on those pages please. The map download is filler because I wanted to upload the picture of the map to BWMN. It's actually a different map that has nothing to do with these.
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Yes! Demon Forest definitely looks micro heavy. Don't get me wrong, I love a good old 5hatch ultraling run over, but sometimes, it's nice to see players being forced in to uber micro. If nothing else, it makes for some good pimpest plays at the end of the year.
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I think the maps look awful.
I doubt they'd stay long.
Demon's Forest has a very lame design, it now puts emphasis on luck, which is killing the balance of the game.
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will this be the time when firebathero actually goes pure firebats? O.O
i predict f&m will be a new strategy for T's on demon's forest.
it looks like both maps are zerg friendly. especially demon's forest. yaay :D
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
Here's a map for those of you who want to test out the geysers: Assimilator Unit Fit Through Tester
Right now it seems you can't rebuild the bottom assimilator, so destroying it might be permanent.
And having one assimilator up allows some larger units (maybe up to dt size?) to get through.
Edit: New map, allows rebuilding of both geysers, but there's a hole on the left between cliff and assim: Ver 2
Edit: Weird hole where the ghost doesn't fit but meds/rines/firebat/lings fit Ver 3
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Troy will make ghosts useable again! :D
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After reading the size article yakii linked, I'm starting to think the information from fifo is wrong, and you can't fit large units through, but you can fit small and some medium, just like in the map I made to test. Unless there's something I don't know, you can't change the size attributes of buildings like the assimilator, so it has to be the same as any map with corner to corner geysers. It is possible to have the assimilators on normally un-geyserable terrain, but i'm pretty sure destroying an assimilator always results in the creation of a geyser.
If this is the case, terran would have all factory units walled, so vs toss they would always destroy the assimilators after sending their scout out (they can sneak other scvs out by starting/cancelling refineries. Otherwise, zealots can get in.
This could play similarly to an island map but with an open expo for people expanding (kinda like 815 but with gas at the expo). I think the interesting concept is you can island off any other expo besides your nat (well, 4 ARE islands already, and 4 have the ability to be islands), so it actually might play like a multi-base island map (paradoxxx anyone?), but with the ability to scout all their bases with workers.
I think it's an interesting concept. It might be better if I'm wrong and large units CAN fit through, otherwise we might see imbalances akin to paradoxxx.
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bwmn has been making the same caliber maps and with the same concepts for decades now. I swear it...
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omg...the demon forest is so imbalance...protoss sure owns there versus terran as it is so immobile for the golietes to stuck in there to take down carriers...and for zergs, terran may have less advantage when using mnm vs zerg because marines were using range...then how is it suppose to fight zerglings in there if there is high posibility of missing attacks? totally imbalance for the terrans
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
The assimilator thing:
Check the collision size of assimilator and vespene geyser in SCMDraft. Assims are MUCH smaller while vespene geysers have maximum collision size for their tile occupation. You can test it in SC by building something large near the geysers, checking that your units can't pass between, then taking the gas and suddenly they can pass.
The ghost issue is quite funny - their collision size is a very long rectangle. On horizontal axis they are smaller than zerglings, while on the vertical they are roughly the size of a hydralisk.
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On January 12 2008 12:44 blagoonga123 wrote:
Troy will make ghosts useable again! :D . Boxer for sure
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i dont get troy
is it a island map?
the cliff blocks off units right?
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Greatmeh: You destroy an Assimilator, the path becomes narrower, and thus where before even Ultras could fit through, now only Ghosts (presumably the smallest unit in the game) can fit through. It doesn't matter if you don't understand how it works, just know that it does. At first it's a land map, and then it turns into an island if you destroy the Assimilators.
A note to everyone: You cannot rebuild on the geysers after they've been destroyed.
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Those maps look nonetheless different from the maps so far (and I especially like Demon's Forest ).
I am really looking forward to the upcoming games in the OSL on Wednesday - wonder what Flash and Yarnc will come up with :p  .
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On January 13 2008 02:08 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
A note to everyone: You cannot rebuild on the geysers after they've been destroyed.
How do you know this?
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http://www.mapdori.com/bbs/zboard.php?id=free2&no=3873
Better question: Why would I lie? Mappers talk to each other. I don't know the author of Troy, but a Korean named MapGhost who visits BWMN was one of the testers for these maps is in some form of contact with the author, and he said that's what the author said.
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On January 13 2008 03:15 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2008 02:08 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
A note to everyone: You cannot rebuild on the geysers after they've been destroyed. How do you know this?
If you could rebuild them you could also use them, so that'd mean you'd have 3 geysers in your natural.
mass gas goooooo
release the maps already ffs
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I would guess they'll be released on the 16th, the first day of the OSL.
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On January 13 2008 04:15 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2008 03:15 LonelyMargarita wrote:On January 13 2008 02:08 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
A note to everyone: You cannot rebuild on the geysers after they've been destroyed. How do you know this? If you could rebuild them you could also use them, so that'd mean you'd have 3 geysers in your natural. mass gas goooooo release the maps already ffs
If they were empty, it wouldn't be much, since they'll bring just 2 gas per trip and you would need around 10 workers to mine them for just 1/2 the efficiency of 3 workers on a full geyser(or you'll need an extra nexus/CC, which will also be too expensive).
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On January 13 2008 04:50 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2008 04:15 Puosu wrote:On January 13 2008 03:15 LonelyMargarita wrote:On January 13 2008 02:08 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
A note to everyone: You cannot rebuild on the geysers after they've been destroyed. How do you know this? If you could rebuild them you could also use them, so that'd mean you'd have 3 geysers in your natural. mass gas goooooo release the maps already ffs If they were empty, it wouldn't be much, since they'll bring just 2 gas per trip and you would need around 10 workers to mine them for just 1/2 the efficiency of 3 workers on a full geyser(or you'll need an extra nexus/CC, which will also be too expensive).
Obviously you underestimate the need for gas late game.
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4 pool -> kill assim -> mass expo
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Hohoho, now we know what can pass and what can't. Thanks!
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Any idea where to download the new maps?
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do started but not finished refinerys open space to walk through
that would be an easy gate system here
p has to wait for full warp-in
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Wait,when both assims are destroyed, ONLY ghost can go through or some other units like zergling also can?
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On January 14 2008 00:39 2BearqLoza wrote:
Wait,when both assims are destroyed, ONLY ghost can go through or some other units like zergling also can?
Ghosts are the smallest unit in the game, so I think only ghosts can go through.
On January 13 2008 22:44 IceLeY wrote:
do started but not finished refinerys open space to walk through
that would be an easy gate system here
p has to wait for full warp-in
You can't rebuild the assimilators.
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Which is great I think, cuz this map can be looked at as an island map, but, if played differently,can be used in some tricky ways...
Dunno about mass ghosts, but opponent can never know if u gonna try attacking by land, especially rushes, when assims still not destroyed...
Think that scouting here is the most important thing...
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Think Troy will be difficult for Z vs P, since they need more expos, and on this map, beside nat expo, its not to easy to defend others, or at least it seems to me. I cant wait to see couple games on this map, cuz these assims are gonna be madness.....
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On January 14 2008 00:39 2BearqLoza wrote:
Wait,when both assims are destroyed, ONLY ghost can go through or some other units like zergling also can?
At the bottom of the picture you can see a zergling, and a high templar too, but I don't know.
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On January 15 2008 01:03 Fishbone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2008 00:39 2BearqLoza wrote:
Wait,when both assims are destroyed, ONLY ghost can go through or some other units like zergling also can? At the bottom of the picture you can see a zergling, and a high templar too, but I don't know.
The zergling and the high templar were just there from the previous group as you can see on the minimap there are a lot more units at the bottom. Only the ghost can go through when both assimilators are destroyed.
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I can see a lot of zergs 9 pooling, making their second hatch at 12/9/6/3, and killing the assims to make it an island expo, and/or killing opponent's assims to contain them while they still can fit hydras/drones/lings out of their main. I think the availability of more, easily defendable expos should even out or overcome the disadvantage zerg usually has on islands.
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When the maps are released can someone post in broodwar section :o ?
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Well, game 1 has just been played on Troy...
+ Show Spoiler [Result of rumble vs flash] +And it didn't dissapoint for strategy. Pretty much exactly what i'd have expected for that map, but made more hilarious by Flash's shit scouting and Rumbles general shitness at defending vs M&M. I haven't given the game result away btw, you'll still need to watch to see who won
I look forward to much much more!
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UGH Forest is ugly.
You can't even see the top of the trees (at least from the observers' point of view), so it looks like a large number of small penises in grid formation sticking from the ground. However, it did seem that units were missing shots under the forest, so I guess the 70%-luck factor still applies. I also don't see how this encourages micro-oriented play, especially if you can't see under the forests. If the tree-tops are for some reason visible to the players, then we'll have a HUGE issue with the sprite limit for gols.
Forest/Troy game results:
+ Show Spoiler +Terran did manage to win on Forest thanks to zerg's shitty play. The game on Troy was entertaining, though as someone said Zerg just can't stop M&M and ended up losing.
Lastly, to someone who said the new maps prevent 1 base terran:
THAT'S BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE, PERIOD. IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE MAPS. Zerg players used to go one-base hive, do you blame that on maps, too? Wow.
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dont guess, ask someone who knows and make a serious newspost out of it.
The design thing you could have looked up in 15sec by opening your editor and the assimilator thing is quite simple. A geyser and a refinery has different base sizes, and when you build a refinery on a geyser, the new building takes less space than the geyser did.
However it is said that you arent able to rebuild these geysers again, meaning that as soon as you destroy them the map turns to a island map permanently, and thus most players will probably aim at just taking them out asap. Someone at bwmn picked the idea up and made rebuildable geysers in a map. Way more interesting if you ask me.
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On January 17 2008 11:11 Starparty wrote:
dont guess, ask someone who knows and make a serious newspost out of it.
The design thing you could have looked up in 15sec by opening your editor and the assimilator thing is quite simple. A geyser and a refinery has different base sizes, and when you build a refinery on a geyser, the new building takes less space than the geyser did.
It's still too small for any unit to fit through, unlike the assimilators, which are big enough to let some units through.
Making them rebuildable would give an advantage to toss, since they're the only race that can make assimilators.
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yakii
Korea (South)1448 Posts
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On January 18 2008 15:12 meathook wrote:Official mappacks (with obs and training versions) have been released: Demon's ForestTroy
This has been edited into a spoiler due to the quoted post.
+ Show Spoiler +any obs versions would be much appreciated too. IM so tired and all i get are damn melees, i wants to obs if im tired :D
i will search and post here if i find.
here is a link to the obs maps created by Mango @ useast.
(3)Demon's Forest(Ob)
[url blocked]
(4)Troy(Ob)
[url blocked]
Again Ty To Mango@Useast
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I made OBS versions of the maps. Anyone know where I can upload the maps?
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On January 18 2008 09:03 Scorpion wrote:
I made OBS versions of the maps. Anyone know where I can upload the maps?
www.massmirror.com
By the way, usually KeSPA releases obs and training versions, no?
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On January 18 2008 09:35 meathook wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2008 09:03 Scorpion wrote:
I made OBS versions of the maps. Anyone know where I can upload the maps?
www.massmirror.comBy the way, usually KeSPA releases obs and training versions, no?
I just unprotected the maps and made an obs version. LeGeNdZs[FcG] uploaded them for me, ty Legendz
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On January 18 2008 09:50 Scorpion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2008 09:35 meathook wrote:On January 18 2008 09:03 Scorpion wrote:
I made OBS versions of the maps. Anyone know where I can upload the maps?
www.massmirror.comBy the way, usually KeSPA releases obs and training versions, no? I just unprotected the maps and made an obs version. LeGeNdZs[FcG] uploaded them for me, ty Legendz Yay now I can do Shadow Rush!!
joking ^^;;
Thanks for the maps!
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yo the trees were re added to the obs version of demon forest and i noticed in the vod that there werent any !!
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On January 18 2008 15:12 meathook wrote:Official mappacks (with obs and training versions) have been released: Demon's ForestTroy
only Troy worked for me, think u could upload to megaupload? Its free and u dont need to register.
edit: only troy worked for the download, but i tried alzip and winrar, i cant get the (TR) version out of it, and as for demon's forest i still cant download, can someone upload it to megaupload plz and thanks if the download has worked for you.
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On January 13 2008 08:02 decafchicken wrote:
4 pool -> kill assim -> mass expo
that's exactly what i was thinking ;(
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On January 18 2008 16:25 LeGeNdZs[FcG] wrote:only Troy worked for me, think u could upload to megaupload? Its free and u dont need to register. edit: only troy worked for the download, but i tried alzip and winrar, i cant get the (TR) version out of it, and as for demon's forest i still cant download, can someone upload it to megaupload plz and thanks if the download has worked for you.
It worked for me using Flashget. Try that.
edit: i.e. downloading Demon's forest - I also can't extract Troy's obs version... -_-
edit2: After repairing the archive, I can get the obs version from the file but not the TR version.
edit3: and here is the Megaupload link for the obs versions: [url blocked]
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I've played 6 or so games on Troy so far. I <3 it.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
O i get how troy works now...
the terrain around the geysers is set as the same as the edge of cliffs - ie its unbuildable. Thus there is a section of unbuildable terrain - thus you cannot rebuild the geysers
ahh
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On January 19 2008 23:04 Plexa wrote:
O i get how troy works now...
the terrain around the geysers is set as the same as the edge of cliffs - ie its unbuildable. Thus there is a section of unbuildable terrain - thus you cannot rebuild the geysers
ahh
i was under the impression that they just used geysers that weren't snapped to the grid
opening it up in a map editor, though, it appears that the assimilators are sprites, not units/buildings
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hey look droppable cliffs next to the back nats weee
siege tanks drop here i come
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the thing on troy is that when u break an assim it creates a wall, complete wall. Thus when you expos u can wall ur expo in if u want or be walled in by some ranged tanks erly game O.o etc.
This one thing i thought of, u can ttriple expo(or just 2 expo) into carriers, by breaking ur assim into wall, then duble expoing into the 5 mineral line, and the most comforting middle expansion(break these asims too), U gotta be quick and good for this one ahah wud be unsuspectingly funny too.
but yeah i checked once offline, but i forgot if just 1 assim dies can ssmall zergling sized units still fit thru. 2=full wall. but 1=?
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On January 20 2008 12:55 LeGeNdZs[FcG] wrote:
but yeah i checked once offline, but i forgot if just 1 assim dies can ssmall zergling sized units still fit thru. 2=full wall. but 1=?
1=hilariously annoying if you're using graphically large units.
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On January 20 2008 13:05 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2008 12:55 LeGeNdZs[FcG] wrote:
but yeah i checked once offline, but i forgot if just 1 assim dies can ssmall zergling sized units still fit thru. 2=full wall. but 1=? 1=hilariously annoying if you're using graphically large units.
according to page 10...
1=drone, zergling, hydralisk, defiler, infested terran
scv, marine, firebat, medic, ghost
probe, zealot, high templar, dark templar
when playing this map on b.net today, i made people leave by 4-pool->kill their assims
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On January 20 2008 13:40 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2008 13:05 Mindcrime wrote:On January 20 2008 12:55 LeGeNdZs[FcG] wrote:
but yeah i checked once offline, but i forgot if just 1 assim dies can ssmall zergling sized units still fit thru. 2=full wall. but 1=? 1=hilariously annoying if you're using graphically large units. according to page 10... 1=drone, zergling, hydralisk, defiler, infested terran scv, marine, firebat, medic, ghost probe, zealot, high templar, dark templar when playing this map on b.net today, i made people leave by 4-pool->kill their assims
I played some guy who killed his own assims and accused me of having rigged the map.
Troy + public games = hilarity
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maps look cool imo. But the first one doesn't seem to have a lot of resources Can be interesting when pro's play this map!
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On January 20 2008 14:52 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2008 13:40 Saracen wrote:On January 20 2008 13:05 Mindcrime wrote:On January 20 2008 12:55 LeGeNdZs[FcG] wrote:
but yeah i checked once offline, but i forgot if just 1 assim dies can ssmall zergling sized units still fit thru. 2=full wall. but 1=? 1=hilariously annoying if you're using graphically large units. according to page 10... 1=drone, zergling, hydralisk, defiler, infested terran scv, marine, firebat, medic, ghost probe, zealot, high templar, dark templar when playing this map on b.net today, i made people leave by 4-pool->kill their assims
I played some guy who killed his own assims and accused me of having rigged the map.Troy + public games = hilarity
Ha ha ha. This happened to me once when Blue Storm was new, oppo could not exit with his tank army, and was too dumb to scout the big ramp. So, he called me a cheater and that it was a stupid, homemade map and disconnected.
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damn interesting, can't wait to see them being used.
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I went to mapdori but can't read the korean... anyone know where to click for download?
Edit: Found it. Was the words above the enlarged picture.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/troy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/demonforest.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/1/9/f_7RH3m_9fcca16.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.mapdori.com/bbs/data/free2/troy1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mapdori.com/bbs/data/free2/troy2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/admin/4725_Troy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.wgtour.com/upload/admin/4724_DemonsForest.jpg)
