EPT"consistently beat"
jeez, even destiny beat bomber, you don't seem me hailing destiny as the next foreign contender.
October Revolution - Page 7
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
"consistently beat" jeez, even destiny beat bomber, you don't seem me hailing destiny as the next foreign contender. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
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Fubi
2228 Posts
You're concluding that the Korean's success due to their training methods "simply cannot hold water anymore." simply because of recent October success. But you fail to address the fact that these recent success were all due to the same 3 players: Idra, Huk, Stephano. But you have to remember, Huk and Idra had been (or still is) trained in Korea extensively, and they have always been the two top foreigners. So them being able to compete here and there with the Koreans doesn't really change what was already happening before. As for Stephanos, so one genius out of a few million in the rest of the world appears and was able to compete with few of the Koreans. That is simply an exception out of the bunch. Just as Yao Ming exists in the NBA doesn't change the fact that the asian basketball scene is way behind the western. Fact of the matter is, the most prestige tournament (GSL), there is still yet to be another foreigner doing well there aside from Huk. In fact, just last night, all the invited foreigners got knocked out the first round (again). All in all, to me, it's still the same few foreigners being successful, with an outlier like Stephanos popping out here and there. And Koreans might be good, but they aren't gods with 100% win rates. Player enough of games (and enough of different players), and some of them will eventually lose. Nothing really out of the ordinary to me. | ||
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AIOL!
France962 Posts
On November 15 2011 18:17 wei2coolman wrote: I hate to be *that guy*, but in my opinion Stephano's victories don't contribute to the "foreigner is on par with korean" argument. Aside from his IPL victory, stephano hasn't really been show to compete with on par with koreans. And even the koreans he faced in IPL were not Code S caliber. Now, the most notable thing they keep talking about on his article is "his practice schedule", his lack of practice shows in his games. He makes the most irritable terrible micro decisions on the face of the planet. As a zerg I cry tears. Now don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but aside from his IPL run, we have yet to see him consistently play well against the Koreans, something Idra, and Huk have already PROVEN. Great write up on Idra and Huk, I still disagree on foreigner revolution. Let's face it, the average skill of pro koreans are still leagues above "pro" foreigners. Fuck, even look at HuK and Idra, both of their great play against Koreans have been result of their travel to Korea. Now whether or not Stephano is a consistent contender, we don't know, but there is bound to be someone who can play at high caliber play without that much practice, but you know what? There's going to be someone out there that's just as talented as Stephano, AND put in the hours. Then guess what? Stephano's just gunna fade away out of the scene, in fact he's been doing that right now. I seriously don't see any other foreigners competing consistently against the Koreans aside from those who are willing to put down the hours that the Koreans do. I don't understand why "that guys" like you aren't warned or ban yet.... I'm tired to respond to every trollish post i meet about Stephano, i got the impression this is like Idra/Huk fanboys (and americans 90% of the time) vs Stephano and europe. Just common, you can admit he has proven at least to be as good as a Huk or an Idra. And you CAN'T expect him to win all the games he makes... Moreover i don't see these kind of posts when Huk loose at the first round of a tournament vs a random (or not) like 75% of the time. Its always "poor huk he travels too much", or"his opponent made a shitty strat he was not prepared for". So why this kind of comments are only made about Stephano ? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10697 Posts
On November 15 2011 17:43 BrosephBrostar wrote: The idea that winning is the direct result of hard work is something that makes Starcraft seem like a legitimate sport. Claiming that you can win with mentality like some kind of Saturday morning cartoon only makes the game seem like a fraud. By winning these tournaments Idra et al. are killing esports. And it's still not true in TONS of sports. Is Usain Bolt really training that much more or trying that much harder then everyone else? No, he isn't. Is/was Michael Phelps just working harder to Swim the fastest? Don't be kidding. Is Messi the best Football player because he trains more? For sure not. Talent and Mentaility are BIG and important things that often outdo raw work ethic. | ||
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FranzP
France270 Posts
Might the future look different? We might have good reason to desperately wish it will. At the heart of 'balance' in starcraft is a belief that the better, harder working, smarter player will always win. In challenging the idea that practice is what matters most of all in Starcraft 2, we open up the argument that Starcraft 2 is simply not as balanced a game as we wish to believe. That players who have put in less time, in less rigorous conditions can win is a threat to the basic premise of Starcraft 2 competition. This argument seems like too dramatic an overall conclusion after just a month of foreigner success. But it might be that we all have a stake in rooting for Koreans in the future, if only because it'll mean that practice is slowly starting to make perfect. I really want to come back on that. I'm not sure I completely agree with that and I don't mean to understand how korean work in starcraft, but I guess it relates a lot to usual professional sport training, minus the physical wearyness and plus the mental tiredness. The point is that more practice doesn't mean more skill in any way, and I know that's what the article argues overall, but I don't think we should wish for the players to put more and more hours in training. They should put more and more thought into how they train and what they should do to be better. I know this contradict eveything that has been done in BW but they're should not be a big difference between someone who trains regularly and conscientiously for 6h a day and someone who put in 10 or 12h. Yeah the latter one we build better mental stamina but at what costs, weaker body strength and overall weaker physical stamina, which are both important to play any game. I hope future results will prove that a healthier and well thoughout training regiment will be the most effective way to be good at starcraft 2. Not mindlessly grinding your way to the top by putting a lot of hours. | ||
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The Void
Germany428 Posts
i loled at "Foreign teamhouse modell" pic ^^ | ||
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Pwnzer
United States617 Posts
Great write up guys, and here's hoping for continued success for the foreigners at MLG! | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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forSeohyun
504 Posts
The argument as I understand it: Acquire the right mind-set (which is probably damn near the Korean) and with it the right practice and training, the right tournament results will come. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 15 2011 18:28 AIOL! wrote: I don't understand why "that guys" like you aren't warned or ban yet.... I'm tired to respond to every trollish post i meet about Stephano, i got the impression this is like Idra/Huk fanboys (and americans 90% of the time) vs Stephano and europe. Just common, you can admit he has proven at least to be as good as a Huk or an Idra. And you CAN'T expect him to win all the games he makes... Moreover i don't see these kind of posts when Huk loose at the first round of a tournament vs a random (or not) like 75% of the time. Its always "poor huk he travels too much", or"his opponent made a shitty strat he was not prepared for". So why this kind of comments are only made about Stephano ? When was the last time we saw Stephano do poorly in a tournament because of too much travel? oh wait, he doesn't travel extensively. What about Idra you say? 8th place in IPL, after JUST arriving from IEM Ghuanzhao, jetlagged like crazy. I have no intention of bickering about EU vs NA, because in reality I feel EU's overall average style of play is actually better than NA, but in terms of Stephano vs Huk/Idra, There's simply no contest in terms of who have shown consistent results against Koreans. EDIT: Why should I get banned? or warned? I asserted a point, and a drew along evidence. It's not like saying "LOL STEPHANO SO BAD FRENCHY, QUIT SC2". Please, if you're trying to assert I'm trolling you, I can assure you I'm not. I made a relevant point in such that I feel that Stephano has yet to prove his worth of "consistently beating koreans". | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 15 2011 18:29 Velr wrote: And it's still not true in TONS of sports. Is Usain Bolt really training that much more or trying that much harder then everyone else? No, he isn't. Is/was Michael Phelps just working harder to Swim the fastest? Don't be kidding. Is Messi the best Football player because he trains more? For sure not. Talent and Mentaility are BIG and important things that often outdo raw work ethic. Because in physical sports, over training can actually hurt you. Also, I garuntee you Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, and Messi all trained ON PAR with everyone else, then the other factors such as talent and mentality come into play. You should never try to make up hardwork with talent and mentality. Do the hardwork, and the mentality and talent will show the difference between being great, and being a legend. | ||
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
On November 15 2011 18:29 Velr wrote: And it's still not true in TONS of sports. Is Usain Bolt really training that much more or trying that much harder then everyone else? No, he isn't. Is/was Michael Phelps just working harder to Swim the fastest? Don't be kidding. Is Messi the best Football player because he trains more? For sure not. Talent and Mentaility are BIG and important things that often outdo raw work ethic. I don't think any Olympic champion would agree that state of mind can make up for training and effort. | ||
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Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
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Simple
United States801 Posts
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
Write up, of course, as well! | ||
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laLAlA[uC]
Canada963 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10697 Posts
On November 15 2011 18:44 BrosephBrostar wrote: I don't think any Olympic champion would agree that state of mind can make up for training and effort. I don't think any would disagree. Why do people have "offdays" when not being ill and in theoretically perfect physical shape? Why is the best Skier that dominated the whole season suddenly failing at the most important event? Sorry... "Hard Work" is important... But it's not everything, by far not... Yeah, the best guys on average train as much as they should/can whiteout hurting themselves... Are they all training the best/smartest way of all the atlethes? Some probably do, others for sure don't but still win more or do way better than they "should". | ||
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gabbegubbe
Sweden67 Posts
Love it all! | ||
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