On October 26 2011 23:24 Bagration wrote: While there are certain prize-spliting allegations, I think it simply just leads us to another issue: The fact that two of the most dominant players are on the same team. While I dont see anything necessarily wrong with Nestea and MVP being on the same team, I feel that the scene could grow if the two of them were on separate teams and were actually rivals rather than teammates, similar to Boxer-Yellow and Flash-Jaedong. Such a rivalry would generate interest in the scene. Nestea-MVP matches are already highly watched and anticipated, simply imagine if there were more of a rivalry and storyline with the two players.
You mean like the rivalry between MMA and MVP?
I think at this point it's safe to call it a bit of a rivalry, between MLG Anaheim, GSPA, MLG Global Invitational, and GSL October.
I thought this was the most interesting finals because even though it was 4-1 the games were all very close and back and forth. It really put the players decision making on display, and I hated the TvT round with Ganzi in the semis. I was considering not watching this final because of that display.
One thing I've noticed lately about Nestea's play is that his infestor control is a little weak compared to say DRG's or even Stephano's. For example one thing they always do when attacking a seiged army with ling/infestors is throw in a few infested terrans to absorb the first few tank shots. I've never seen Nestea do this and more than a few times I've seen him bring in his lings first while his infestors lingered far behind. Can't say if that match was fixed or not, maybe they agreed on splitting but Nestea definitely shipped in his performance in the second half of the game.
Nestea could've literally made mass hatcheries and spammed lings at so many points in that final game. Literally overwhelming MVP but instead in an effort to "show the best games" as Koreans always seem to be trying to do he tried to win via mass banelings and nydus worms multiple times as that seems to be the korean zerg fallback (moon, losira, and july)and when that failed he make a ton of broodlords with no support but like 4 infestors....uh...what? That was the worst strategical move I've seen in a while. Not to mention all of MVP's nukes landed!!! Oh and btw snipe isn't easy at all. You can't shift cue or ghosts will get stuck freaking out instead of sniping. The way I've read that is the fastest involves hold position hold fire and then shift cuing which usually leaves your ghosts vulnerable but Nestea didn't even have detection if I remember correctly. Terran needed to win this Blizzcon. Next year when zerg can't be beat (infester+viper+burrow move banelings) zerg will win all the tournaments and zerg can explain why they aren't overpowered. Even thought it's the zerg expansion so they should be.
The prize-splitting does effect the quality of the game. That shakuras game was probably the biggest WTF moment in all of SC2 to date. At one point he had a 120 banelings with tons of larva stacked and a huge amount of resources banked. He easily could of just A moved and killed half the army and Instantly remax of roach/ling and win. But instead he does rookie movies like defend drops with his entire army, uncharacteristically bad nydus ( I mean with those resources why not at least make 2-3 nydus networks). Then the baneling drop was a total fail. MVP had been going heavy marines due to Nestea's earlier muta harras, which also caused him to build a ton of turrets. Nestea had to know he was going into a death trap. And then to do it with no AA support I mean come on. Then to waste all his resources on broodlords with no AA support when he already saw viking ghost combo is ridiculous.
Prize splitting ruins the integrity of the competition and degrades the value of their achievements, as well as provide worse entertainment. I mean this is like the match fixing that occurs in BW except no one we know of at the moment is betting on the game.
On October 26 2011 14:25 Vindicare605 wrote: It's worth mentioning that MVP also had 14-18 Vikings in the mix when Nestea's desperation Broodlord Attack came.
I don't think you're intentionally misleading anyone into thinking that Ghosts alone took out the Broodlords, but its probably a good idea to include that as well. It only serves as more evidence that Nestea's final attack was more out of desperation and frustration than clear calculation. Sending Broodlords in solo against Ghosts and Vikings is not a good plan even for him.
Other than that, awesome write up.
That’s what I was thinking….even if he didn’t have ghosts, he had a crap load of Vikings, which hard counter broodlords. He would have won in that situation anyways. Especially, after MVP took out some of his hatcheries and Nestea even though he banked 15K decided not to build anymore (which I thought was a little weird). If he kept up on his hatcheries he could have just kept remaxing, but this time with something different that would take out Ghosts.
Definitely a great write up though!! Wax you are the man! Minus the ghost comment. You can’t exactly attack with 95% broodlords (ground only) against 14 vikings (Air) with or without the ghosts. It was a bad engagement no matter how you look at it.
Meh to partial in one direction with the MVP v NesTea game, your screenshoots does not show the obvious flaws and mistakes that NesTea did that he had never ever come close to doing before.
Someone said
It's fascinating how people can accuse without any concrete proof.
That's what the definition of accuse is, else I PROVE that NesTea was doing something fishy. Tosser.
All I can say is I'm a heardcore NesTea fan and this just was the shittiest he's ever played ever for no apparent reason other than to lose. To go from playing godly first 15 minutes to just blatantly fail and fail again with no thought behind the failing just makes this, atleast for me, obvious that not everything was right.
By far my favorite component of this writeup is the discussion of the evolution of the late-late game ghost play. I've been worried about this kind of play for a while and, sadly, since Zerg doesn't have any EMP / feedback equivalent, late-late-game energy units are a big problem. Anything that does big energy-to-damage conversion can become quite dangerous.
The first article part is really anti-T biased...snipe is not as OP as the article makes out, and also Nestea did many *cough* weird things such as bringing zero overseers with his *cough* 27 broodlords, not utilizing multiple nydus, morphing *cough* once again, only broodlords with zero corruptors vs vikings...*cough* suiciding banelings and overlords for no reason..doing *cough* many questionable things.
For a player of nestea's calibre he was in more than a winnable situation. It's interesting that instead of analyzing all of the obvious things nestea did wrong, and the things that were so obviously bronze of the best zerg in the world...you instead decided to write the most slanted article about how ghosts are somehow OP.
....
At least you got the second half of that biased article somewhat right...as there was much more going on in that game than the game itself...*cough money*
Everyone could see something was wrong with that game...
Also, you conveniently failed to mention their reactions after the games, nestea all smiles after losing like he had no care in the world, and MVP leaving the booth almost sickened with himself, not even going to shake his teammates hand - he just left the stage.
Can someone just go ahead and make the custom map that allows you to play from Nestea's position in that game? someone out there has the time to duplicate the specifics of that game from the replay, since the replays are out.
I'm particularly curious to see what would have happened if Nestea just rammed those 120 banelings down the middle and refilled with lings or something instead of pussyfooting around with drops and anti-harassment.
EPT
