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[NASL] Judgment Day

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[NASL] Judgment Day

Text bymotbob
Graphics byHawaiianPig
June 16th, 2011 00:40 GMT
[image loading]
banner by HawaiianPig

(Wiki)North American Star League Season 1

NASL Week 9 Recap / Playoffs Preview
by motbob, confusedcrib, JimLloyd, Primadog and emythrel


Table of contents

[image loading]


Playoff Schedule

Playoff Preview

The NASL Format is Bad

Game of the Week

You Don't Have to Go Home,
But You Can't Stay Here


The Good, The Bad,
The Outclassed


ESPORTS Prospectus



Depending on how you look at it, the NASL regular season went out with either a bang or a whimper. A bang, perhaps, because the games of Week 9 were some of the best of NASL Season 1. A whimper, one could argue, because the tiebreaker games held last night were bad enough to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

Regardless of which perspective is more correct, the games during Week 9 and during the tiebreakers illustrated a fact that is quite pertinent to the upcoming playoffs: The NASL games with the most at stake have almost invariably been the best. When competitors in Week 9 had a very clear idea of what they stood to achieve with a win, they played better and delivered superior games. When the players involved in the tiebreakers played, with so little at stake, they mailed it in, using quick all-ins to get the games over with, or simply deciding the games with a coin-flip.

What this means for the quality of play in the playoffs should be obvious. The "win or go home" nature of the remainder of the matches in the NASL should bring each competitor's A-game to the table.

In this article, the NASL writers will preview the looming playoffs, but we will also look back at Week 9... and the NASL as a whole.




Playoff Schedule


Out of each group of four, one advances to the finals. Matches are Bo3.

Wednesday:

(Z)Zenio vs (T)dde
(P)MaNa vs (Z)IdrA

Thursday:

(Z)MorroW vs (P)Socke
(P)TT1 vs (T)NaDa

Friday:

(P)Ace vs (T)BRAT_OK
(P)HasuObs vs (T)Fenix

Saturday:

(P)NaNiwa vs (P)Axslav
(Z)DarKFoRcE vs (T)SjoW

Sunday:

(P)MC vs (P)CrunCher
(Z)MoMaN vs (P)KiWiKaKi



Playoff Preview
by confusedcrib


Finals Playoff Matches:

These are the games that matter, folks. The winner of these groups of four advance to the NASL finals. Their performance up until this point forgotten, these matches mean everything to these players. Expect them to play like it.

*everything with a star next to it has ConfusedCrib's entertainment star of approval, these are matches that I am guaranteeing to be entertaining. Every one of these matches should be great, but the stars are for the one's with a little extra "oomph"

[image loading] (Z)Zenio vs. (T)dde – Korean vs. Up and Comer

This ZvT is going to be incredible. I'm a huge personal fan of DDE's play style. He seems like an awesome mix of Select and Qxc, with incredible macro and aggression. He's still relatively new to the scene, and despite putting out some impressive results, is still counted out by many. This his chance to prove himself, being up against one of the best Zergs in the business of protecting the swarm, oGs Zenio. Zenio, being Korean, is automatically expected to win this match, and I'd even favor him in it. He's very good at multitasking you to death. We should all tune in and root for DDE though, if he wins this match, he has a lot of potential to continue his growth as a player.

[image loading] (P)MaNa vs. (Z)IdrA – Man Who's Been Silent vs. The Gracken

Ever since Dreamhack, we haven't heard all too much about the scary Protoss Mana. In the meantime, he has slowly but surely been making his way up through NASL. Mana is a great player, but he has a huge obstacle standing in his way, the gracken. Idra's PvZ is simply heavenly to watch since he has been working so hard on it, and you need to tune in to see it (as long as he plays with a clear head).

(Z)MorroW vs. (P)Socke – Unusual vs. Unusual

Morrow's PvZ, like Idra's, is fantastic to watch. Morrow makes banelings, lots of banelings. What's great about his opponent Socke is that he is not the kind of player who turtle death balls, he'll do anything from the 4 gate nexus cancel to just taking the whole map and getting infinity high templar. I love watching Socke play for his unusual Protoss play. Tune in for the non-standard vs. the non-standard action.

(P)TT1 vs. (T)NaDa - Rematch!

In the GSL World Championships, to quote iNcontroL from state of the game: “TT1 sat across from m-fing Nada and beat him. That's incredible.” TT1 hasn't had much hype since those matches at the World Championship, so the question is: will he be able to beat Nada again and regain his former dominance as one of the best Protoss players?

(P)ACE vs. (T)BRAT_OK – The Obvious Winner vs. The Comeback

I may be just an ignorant American, but I have heard almost nothing about BRAT_OK since the beta. If he manages to beat Ace, then it can mean the beginning of a beautiful resurgence of popularity. Ace has a habit of winning foreign tournaments, and if BRAT_OK can stop him now, then consider me a renewed fan.This is the kind of match you have to tune into just to see if BRAT_OK wins/

[image loading] (P)HasuObs vs. (T)Fenix – The Most Underrated match

Going into TSL, many people underestimated HasuObs, who managed to make it very deep into the tournament. Similarly, going into MLG, no one expected Fenix to be one of the top contenders after making it through the grueling open bracket. Both of these players play their own style and it's fast paced and exciting to watch. Watching Fenix play is always so fun and exciting and this is another chance for HasuObs to cement his reputation, so he has a lot on the line.

(P)NaNiwa vs. (P)Axslav – Learn Damn You!

This is the PvP you'll want to learn from. Naniwa and Axslav are both top PvP players and know their way around the matchup. Everyone expects Naniwa to win this, but if Axslav is well enough prepared, he has a legitimate chance to take it. Watching Naniwa play PvP is always a pleasure, and if you focus really hard on his play, you can learn so much from it.

(Z)DarKFoRcE vs. (T)SjoW – Crazy Good vs. Crazy Good

with a spoonful of learning on the side

Both of these guys play some pretty insane TvZ. Both of these guys styles are easier to replicate than some other players, and whenever I watch Sjow play, I learn one little cute thing to steal from him. If you want to learn how to play TvZ, these guys will teach you.

[image loading] (P)MC vs. (P)CrunCher – Upset vs. Two?

We all remember the famous Cruncher smiley face, and I think we would all be more than happy to see it in action again. Cruncher proves himself to be great at preparing for matches in advance, he can really plan out games to demolish a particular opponent. I wasn't too big of a fan of Cruncher, I really didn't think he could play too well. But after watching him play some PvP on some streams, I've seen him pure out macro other professional players I'm very confident in his skill level. He has a legitimate chance to take this series.

[image loading] (Z)MoMaN vs. (P)KiWiKaKi – The Best for Last

Both of these players are two of the most inventive, innovative, creative, high level players that I know of. This PvZ will be absolutely fantastic from an observers standpoint due to their high multitasking creative styles. Both of these players want to be in the NASL finals very badly, and will be pulling out their full arsenal for this series. Don't miss it.



The NASL Format is Bad
Unnecessarily Inflammatory Title

by motbob


The NASL Format is bad. The NASL format could be better

It's bad It could be better for the players, because the timeslots are unreasonable for some.
It's bad It could be better for the commentators, because of the sheer number of games.
It's bad It could be better for the viewers, because the average game quality is low.

The Players

It's not bad for all of the players. North Americans and Europeans have their games scheduled at very reasonable times, with players in the US playing during the day and with Europeans playing late in the evening and into the next morning. Both time slots are very standard times for gamers. But Asians (Koreans + Sen) are a whole different story. NASL's filming schedule occurs during early morning, while most of Korea sleeps. It's easy to see how waking up at 4AM to play NASL matches could make the quality of play decrease.

Given that, my question is this: why not cast from replays, at least for some matches? The memory of Clash of the Titans is still fresh in my mind, with all of its technical difficulties and replay sync problems. But surely those problems are not insurmountable. The TSL 3 used a program that automatically told commentators on different sides of North America whether or not their replays were out of sync. Surely, with two computers right next to each other, the NASL could similarly fix their replay de-sync problems. With Koreans playing at times comfortable to them, the level of play should noticeably improve.


The Commentators

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but it seems that the workload put on the NASL casters in general, and on Gretorp in particular, seems excessive. No other commentator commentates close to the amount that Gretorp does, with Tastosis casting a maximum of ~16 Bo3s per week, and with most commentators, save djWHEAT, casting much less. Gretorp, on the other hand, does 25 series per week, every week. This isn't a reasonable workload, in my opinion. There just isn't enough time to meticulously prepare for each series the way a professional sports commentator would prepare for a match, and, in my opinion, it shows.

There are a couple of solutions to this. The first would be to reduce the workload by getting more commentators. The second would be to reduce the number of games casted. I'll talk more about why the second solution might be the better one in the next section.

The Viewers

When you compare the quality of the average game in the NASL to the average game in a TSL, MLG, or any single elimination tournament, the difference is obvious. The structure of the NASL prevents the average quality of its games from being where it should be. In a single elimination tournament, the quality of the games improve as the tournament advances and the bad players are pruned from the player roster. In the NASL, the bad players stick around and ruin the quality of play for weeks and weeks.

Yet, if one looks at professional sports, this shouldn't be that much of a problem. The NFL, NBA, and MLB are all successful entities that run a league format. I'll compare NASL to those particular professional sports leagues to see what makes them succeed where the NASL falls short.

I took the final win percentages of all of the teams in the NBA, the NFL, and the MLB, over two seasons, and looked at the win percentage of the players in the regular season of the NASL. My results are below; you will see that the NASL's players have a wider spread of win percentages than do the teams of all three professional sports leagues. A wider spread of success means more lopsided games, and more lopsided games means lower game quality. Turns out that this is wrong, which makes this next section more important.

+ Show Spoiler [inaccurate graphs] +
The following graphs and statistics are inaccurate. I may or may not be able to fix this in the future.

[image loading]
standard deviation: 0.24


[image loading]
standard deviation: 0.19


[image loading]
standard deviation: 0.16


[image loading]
standard deviation: 0.07


The NFL has a high variance in win percentages, similar to the NASL, but there is one very important difference between the two leagues: the NFL doesn't show all of its games. It highlights the best games on Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, and Monday night. The vast majority of the games on the NFL's schedule go unseen by the viewing public. That's how the NFL keeps the average game quality of their league high.

Likewise, the NASL should cull terrible matchups from its broadcast schedule. Perhaps if Zenio is playing Painuser on Friday, the NASL should choose not to commentate that match and release replays instead (thus also reducing the casters' workloads.) Another solution might be to cast all five matches, and to simply not broadcast the worst one. Five best of threes per night is a ridiculous amount of Starcraft, and reducing the daily dose to only four won't disappoint many people, especially if the remaining match is released in the form of replays.

In MLB and in the NBA, viewers don't watch every match. They watch nationally televised matches (AKA the good matches) and those of their local teams. This, again, brings up the average quality of the games watched, unless you're a Cubs fan.

I'm of the opinion, in addition, that there are simply too many players in the NASL. But that aspect of the league, I think, is unlikely to change, so I won't spend any time talking about it.



Game of the Week
by emythrel


This week's game of the week was somewhat more difficult to pick than last week. The other game that I considered is definitely worth a watch if you have VOD access, for it was the most bizarre TvP I think I've ever seen. If you are unsure of which game I speak of go check out Game 2 between SelecT and MC..... you will not regret it.

Sen vs Socke on Crevasse

Our players spawn horizontally at the bottom of the map, Sen at bottom left and Socke at bottom right. Perfect positions for some of the Muta play that I have come to love in this match-up thanks to Moon. Sen goes for 15 hatch, 16 pool while Socke decides on a forge expand and it seems we are in for the long haul. Sen makes a brilliant play stealing the sole gas at Socke's back door natural making his soon-to-be-revealed Stargate play a little less potent. Sen takes a very fast third as Socke begins to make Voidrays.

The game moves right on in to the mid-game as the first Voidray begins to chip away at Sen's third. Two queens come to save it, but Socke brings his Phoenix to lift and takes first blood dropping both Queens. Luckily for Sen, a third Queen pops from the hatch to finish off the badly damaged Voidray before any more damage can be done.

[image loading]


Sen now opts to build a spire to counter the airplay as the growing Phoenix number begins to take down Overlords at a rapid rate, forcing Sen to morph nine Overlords at once to break his supply cap and give himself some room to breathe.

Sen decides to go with Corruptors instead of Mutas for his first round of air units, morphing eight as soon as his spire finishes and follows it up with a gaggle of Mutas when the next set of larvae pop. Socke takes his third as the battle for air supremacy starts to heat up, with so many air units out for the Zerg, Socke's flock of Phoenix begin to die but he has already made the switch to a gateway based army and has multiple Cannon's covering all three of his Nexi. As the game hits the 15 minute mark both players look to take more bases, as Socke tech's to High Templar and Sen pumps round after round of lings and banes.

With both players nearly maxed and Sen banking over 2k, Socke moves out with his blink stalker, sentry and high templar force towards Sen's front door and is met by some 120 lings, 40 banelings and of course those pesky Mutas. Socke is forced to fall back momentarily as Sen swarms forward but a big blink, some clutch forcefields and a couple of nice storms then send Sen packing back home briefly.

[image loading]


It looks like Sen wants to get aggressive as he loads up a squadron of Overlords with Lings and Banes to take on a bombing run at Socke's backdoor nat, killing most of the probes and then follows up with a baneling bust that kills everything at Socke's 4th base, including the nexus.

[image loading]
maybe baneling bust isn't the right term


Socke knows he is in trouble and must do damage while Sen has no Banelings, so the Protoss army rolls in to Sen's front door and is met by fresh Lings and 4 Spinecrawlers, with another eight or so being morphed behind. Some more great FF's and Storms push Sen back for a while but once the extra Spines pop, Socke knows its time to give up on the attack. Sen has been expanding all game and currently sits on 6 bases to Socke's 4, as Socke backs off from the Zerg strong hold he makes a U-turn and heads for the 4th base of his opponent, sacking it and then moving on to the 5th base.

[image loading]


Meanwhile Sen sends off a crack squad of Zerglings to ravage the main base of the Protoss and backs them up with his now sizeable Muta force.

[image loading]


The attack quickly leaves the main as Sen decides the 3rd base is a more valuable target. Socke is forced to maynard all his probes to his recently rebuilt 4th.

Both players' supplies drop below 150 as their armies engage back and forth at Socke's front door, while a Ninja team of Zealots have their way with Sen's top right 6th base, leaving Sen effectively with no mining bases and Socke with very few probes but two mining bases. The action coming so fast its hard to keep up with everything, Sen starts to rebuild his battered economy as he spends the last of his trust fund on Broodlords and manages to push back Socke once more. Banes roll towards what is left of the Stalker, HT and Archon army and a few more sublime FF's and Storms minimize the damage taken by the German Protoss.

[image loading]


Socke is however pushed all the way back to his 4th where he decides to make his stand, taking down 2 Broodlords in quick succession before the extremely slow Queens arrive as backup and show how powerful Broodlords can be with Queens transfusing them, Socke's 4th falls once more, leaving him mining only from his nearly depleted 3rd and back door nat.

Both players now sit below 100 supply and are both in the stone age from an economy standpoint. Sen finally finishes off the Ninja Zealots that have been preventing him mining for so long and gets his 4th back up and running. Socke has made a switch back to Voidrays in order to deal with the Broodlords but as the now tiny armies meet in the centre of the map more great transfuses leave Socke with only 1 Voidray and 3 Stalkers and an Archon to his name. Sen is long distance mining from the base to the right of his 3rd determined to gain any extra income he can and sends another squadron of Lings to disrupt mining at Socke's back door nat once more.

Sen has a 30 supply lead but Socke has the better army composition as the game rolls past the 30 minute mark. Socke decides on another attack at the Zerg front door and catches the Spinecrawlers in transition, Sen is forced to engage while the Spines burrow and Socke is pushed back once again. Sen counters again with his rebuilt Muta force at Socke's backdoor nat. Both players supplies are still dropping slowly as they now sit at around 60 supply, both players manage to find the resources to expand again but Socke loses his back door nat to the ever annoying Mutas before they move on to his 4th base. With Sen back on a decent 2 base economy he decides to tech switch to Roaches as he begins to pull out a larger and larger supply lead.

The last Voidray dies attempting to defend the only mining base but some good storms take the somewhat overzealous Muta force down to red health before Sen is forced to back off.

[image loading]


With his supply now double that of his opponent and his Roach switch fully complete, Sen decides it is time to make the killing blow, a great set of final Forcefields can only delay the inevitable for Socke.

[image loading]


30 Roaches backed up by a Broodlord, Mutas and a fresh round of Lings finish off the remaining Protoss army, forcing the GG from Socke.

[image loading]


Another fantastic ZvP! Again showing the power of Zerg air in the mid-game and the strength of the Protoss gateway army when controlled well. This game could easily have gone either way, but in the end Sen showed that thinking outside of the box along with high aggression can make Zerg an extremely deadly opponent.



You Don't Have to Go Home,
But You Can't Stay Here

by JimLloyd


EGiNcontroL, oGsEnsnare, Liquid’TLO, and FXOMoonglade are out of the playoffs. They won’t have the opportunity to play for the NASL’s $50,000 grand prize, either through auto-qualification or the Playoff Bracket. Season One is over for them. But Season Two isn’t. Because they fall into a tiny hole in the NASL structure where they don’t qualify for the playoffs but also don’t have to re-qualify for next season. That’s interesting, isn't it? But why does this Zone of Mediocrity exist? I’ve concluded that it exists because, otherwise, the fifty players wouldn’t break down into a natural 10-20-4-16 format. [i]Duh.

I know I must sound like a broken record about this after last week’s mini-rant, but I seriously don’t get it. I understand that MLG has a ludicrous format in order to guarantee that there’s marquee match-ups to be broadcast on the streams at all times, but I don’t see what value is added by the NASL’s 10-20-4-16 breakdown of the players. The forums are full of people confused by the system, and/or thanking motbob profusely for his clarifying post last week.

I recognize the desire to have the division winners get some kind of bonus, like the two top seeds in the USA’s National Football League, who get to skip the first round of the playoffs. So I see some appeal to the two-tiered playoff structure. I also see the constraints under which the designers were working. You want it to run about ten weeks with about fifty players; you’re probably going to end up with weird elements like five divisions (five just messes everything up). But maybe they should’ve just changed some of their constraints. If having fifty players is going to result in a crazy post-season, then rather than stick to the nice round number, change that and make the post-season more easily understood.

They could have made the season shorter and had more divisions, or added some more players. Or had fewer players and four divisions. It’s tough trying to put this kind of stuff together, but making it hard for people to figure out what’s going to happen before the playoffs can’t be good (even if they’re used to the absurd complexity of Starcraft leagues). There are probably a lot of people who just want to watch some good Starcraft and don’t really need to place it in the larger league context, but then what value is the NASL adding to the viewer? The NASL has provided us with great games so far, and promises dozens more before the season’s over (and there are lots of other reasons to love the NASL -- see my column from last week for a few) -- there's no reason not to make it easy for us figure out what’s going to happen and to get excited about it!

(And Tiebreak Tuesday? I’ll probably get flamed for this, but who cares? When the playoffs are over, people will point to the Tiebreak Tuesday results and say, “Well, if Player X had been in Group 2, yadda yadda yadda," but those counterfactuals are meaningless; no matter the result, there’d be counterfactuals like that. The truth is that NaDa, IdrA, SjoW (who the website lists as #2 in his division, naturally), and Fenix are all really good players. It’s not like MaNa could end up playing either MMA or me. They all have 6-3 records and are +5 on points. Just seed the playoff brackets so players aren’t playing opponents they’ve already faced (we could end up with two rematches). Or just use an RNG -- even the NFL is prepared to go to coinflips for post-season seeding if two teams are similar enough.)

So we have a four-player bracket to determine placement of those four players into four more four-player brackets, the winners of which will advance with the winner of a fifth four-player bracket to a sixteen-player bracket (which contains the first two players from each of the five regular-season divisions, and one winner of a 1024 player bracket, drawn from players who did not participate in the regular season). So next year’s regular season is going to consist of: (i) the players in the playoffs mentioned above; (ii) seven other players from the aforementioned 1024 player bracket; (iii) eight players from another bracket of indeterminate size that may contain the bottom sixteen regular season players; and (iv) four guys just chillin.’

Okay, rant over. Now some quick-hit thoughts:

When the Games Don’t Matter. Some of the players had already clinched spots in the final going into the last week of the season. What do you, as a player, do then? July, having just returned to Korea from MLG Columbus where he played through the open bracket, didn’t play perhaps as hard as he could have in his match against MoMaN. His six pool in game 2 was the Starcraft equivalent of Curtis Painter. (And MoMaN acknowledged as much in a post-match interview.) SeleCT, on the other hand, decided to have a little fun; “fan service,” I think the kids call it. After beating MC playing straight-up in Game 1, he decided to use some . . . unorthodox strategies in games 2 and 3. Turns out that Battlecruiser rushes are pretty soundly beaten by “a couple Void Rays,” and that mass Orbital Command doesn’t fare well against infinity Carriers. The SeleCT games were fun to watch, though -- MC seemed to take his cue and play along.

When Games That Don’t Matter Actually Do Matter, or: Who Said Counterfactuals Are Meaningless? But what about their opponents? Strelok had clinched his place but played Slush straight up. If he had dogged it and lost (the whole idea of that seems really unlikely from his interviews, but let’s play the game), Slush would’ve ended up in the Zone of Mediocrity where he’d have an automatic place in Season Two; instead he has to re-qualify. And had SeleCT not decided to treat us to his innovative three-nukes-before-expand build, MC might’ve ended up tied with MaNa, which would have resulted in yet another game for Tiebreaker Tuesday.

But look at MoMaN's result! MoMaN was 3-5 and -1 on points leading into the week. If July were to have beaten him either 2-1 or 2-0 -- remember, MoMaN himself admitted that July might have mailed in some of that series -- then MoMaN would have been 3-6, squarely in the Zone of Mediocrity. And since TLO passed on his playoff invite, that means final playoff spot would have gone to . . . iNcontroL. I'm sure the fierce competitor in him is a little hot, but he wouldn't say anything or hold anything against anyone, because he is the most manner person ever. Seriously, it's a tossup between him and Gandhi.

We could see another Korean sweep. If my calculations are correct, it’s possible that each “quadrant” of the Finals’ bracket (I’m used to American college basketball and its regions) could produce a Korean winner, though at least one of the quadrants requires that a Korean come out of the playoff system.

You Finished First. Here's Your Reward! Hometeam favorite Liquid’Ret is rewarded for his #1 seed with a first-round Finals match against the winner of the Open Bracket, who will very likely be a fantastic player. The open qualifier player ought to be seeded #16, but it just works out weird this season because the regular season players were selected by invitation (with which I agreed, for the record) rather than a play-in tournament. In future seasons, the Open Bracket probably won't contain people like ThorZaiN or DIMAGA. So let’s look at some interesting names in the open bracket as of today:

A number of players who were snubbed by the selection committee have their chance now. DeMusliM’s hand works again, so he can give it a shot; his teammates StrifeCro and LzGameR will be in the tournament, too. CoLMinigun will have an opportunity to bring his legions of fans to the NASL next year. And maybe NightEnD will be able to produce a valid Visa. (No Kas, though . . . yet.)

mtwDIMAGA. He was late (along with LaLush, who’s in the open tourney) in applying and wasn’t allowed into Season One’s regular season. Having knocked off July and MVP in the GSL World Championships, DIMAGA would likely have been a favorite in the NASL. Provided he gets everything together, I think it’s unlikely that he’d fail to make the top eight in the Open Bracket at least (guaranteeing him a spot in regular season two).

sixjaxMajOr. If that’s still his name next week, the open bracket qualifier from MLG Columbus should make a good showing. He beat several NASL competitors there -- iNcontroL, Tyler, and TLO. But he did eventually lose to . . . Ret, 2-0.

ThorZaiN. The hero of TSL 3 and one of the breakout performers at MLG Columbus is ready to play in North America again. He has so many fans and is such a good player that it would be huge news if he didn’t qualify for season two. And right now he’s one of the favorites to win the Open Bracket. At Columbus he beat IdrA, SeleCT, Tyler, and Machine, but lost to MC and . . . Ret.

YourFriend. Your friend is playing in the Open Bracket. You know someone -- isn’t that cool? You’d better root for him.

Finally, A Brief Note on SeleCT’s Nationality. I saw that a number of people objected to my characterization last week of SeleCT as “an American.” I see how people could think he’s Korean -- especially since he's a Korean citizen and chose a Korean flag for his TLPD page -- but as an American, I’m officially claiming him. That’s what America’s all about. My ancestors came over in steamships from Europe, and as they disembarked to have their names taken on Ellis Island, they laid their eyes on the Statue of Liberty as part of their first view of their new country. The poem “The New Colossus” is engraved on a plaque inside The Statue, and it famously states: Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses / your 350 APM terrans, your big men with shooting range / yearning to breathe free!

Beautiful words from poet Emma Lazarus, and that spirit of inclusiveness was also written into U.S. law with the Immigration and Nationalization Act of 1948, 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1250(A)(1):

  1. For the purpose of comparison with other states or organizations, a person shall be considered “American,” provided that:

    • the person is very, very good at something; and

    • the person maintains a connection with the United States. Such a connection can be proven by a showing that:

    • the person is related to a naturalized or natural-born United States citizen; or


  2. the person resides or has resided within the United States, its territories, or areas within the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States; or

  3. the person attends or has attended college, university, or any other educational institution within the United States, its territories, or within an area within the exclusive jurisdiction of the United States; or

  4. the person has been referred to at some point as “American” or “from the United States;” or

  5. the person is aware of the general geographic location of the United States; or

  6. upon the declaration of the President of the United States, an agent thereof, a natural-born or naturalized citizen, or other such person.


So sorry, SeleCT’s an American. It’s the law.*

*The information contained in this post does not constitute legal advice, is governed by our Terms and Conditions Of Use, and we, the NASL writing team, are not acting as your attorney. We make no claims, promises or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained in or linked to this post.
In no event will the NASL writing team be held liable to any party for any damages arising in any way out of the availability, use, reliance on or inability to use any information provided by or through the NASL writing team's posts, or for any claim attributable to errors, omissions or other inaccuracies in, or destructive properties of any information provided by the NASL writing team.



The Good, The Bad, and The Outclassed
by emythrel


The Good, The Bad and The Outclassed

It is said that you can't have pleasure without pain, that for there to be winner there must be a loser and that is very much the case in the NASL. The early weeks of this ambitious league were notoriously plagued by technical difficulties, whether it was the video encoding or stream lag and even at times the poor editing everyone and their virtual wife had something to say about what NASL could have done better and let's face it these issues have been flogged to the point of death, shocked back to life and then dunked in acid by the community at large.

I have been an avid supporter of the NASL and their vision for western SC2, however I now find myself drawn to write about the one issue I feel should never have been an issue, the players. I can already hear the screams of the NASL faithful but I must forge ahead, I was never under any illusions that technical difficulties of one sort or another wouldn't ensue during season 1 however I was and still am perplexed by some choices in terms of player talent. The difference in quality between the top and bottom is simply astounding and something that could have been remedied with a better selection process.

It is obvious the some of the players selected for NASL were selected purely on name recognition and not as it should have been done, on talent and proven ability. Being a beloved or famous member of the community should never qualify you for a competition of this calibre, skill is all that matters. With this being said, I present the good, the bad and the outclassed:


The Good


I could talk at length about IdrA, July, KiwiKaKi or the other names you would expect to do well in any competition, however I feel that these guys get enough praise that they don't need highlighting or a lowly scrub like me stroking their ego.

Sheth - Your Friendly Neighborhood Zerg

The name was familiar to me and many others before the NASL due to his participation in the Coaches' Corner podcast, however I was unaware of his prowess as a player.

When I looked at division 1 I would never have predicted that seven weeks in he would be sat on a very healthy 5-2 record in a group that also includes TLO, Morrow, Fenix, KiwiKaKi, Moon and Rainbow. Taking losses only to KiwiKaKi and Fenix and placing himself in a commanding position to comfortably qualify for the play-offs. With only 2 ZvZ's left in his way, the most mannered man in North America even had a shot at topping the group and boy did he deliver.

After taking down Vibe 2-0 he then beat Morrow 2-1 in the final week to take 2nd in the division, knocking Morrow down to the play-off spots in the process. Sheth is definitely on the rise and with his team making the move to Korea for the GSTL we can only expect him to continue improving, could we be looking at a potential rival for Idra's number one NA Zerg spot or will his success be short lived? Only time will tell.

Strelok - The Giant Slayer

Where do I start? The performance of Strelok during NASL season 1 has simply been stellar, literally. The stars aligned from the very beginning for the Ukrainian Terran, taking down superstar after superstar. In the first three weeks he took down both the Koreans in his division and was awarded a walk over against Naniwa. He managed hold on to the top spot in his division from week two, only relinquishing it for one week after his somewhat surprise loss to SixjaxDde.

The list of fallen enemies is impressive to say the least, NaDa, Squirtle, Slush, Haypro, KawaiiRice, MoonGlade and Axlav. When you look at that list, you really get a feeling for just how consistent Strelok has been, he came prepared every week and then delivered to make an 8-1 run through his division, a feat only matched by the legendary BoxeR and Team Liquid's own Ret. Unlike with Sheth, I was well aware of just how good Strelok is but I was still somewhat astounded by his performance, I had expected him to make the play-offs but in a group that includes a BW legend and an MLG champion I simply didn't set my hopes too high.

If Strelok can continue to play with the level of consistency he showed during division play, I fully expect to see him go deep at the live Finals in Ontario.

The Bad

I would like to give a somewhat honorable (perhaps dishonorable?) mention to PainUser in this section for being the only player to go 0-9. This is a somewhat false assessment of Tpain's performance as his new job with IGN and a lack of communication meant he was unable to compete for three of the nine weeks and is why I felt he did not warrant further highlighting.

QXC – The Spanish Flu

As one of the major players in the North American scene, QXC would have been considered a safe bet to make the play-offs for most SC2 fans. Unfortunately for both QXC and the fans, his performance in the NASL has been somewhat disappointing. QXC can claim mitigating circumstances, after all he he spent the last few months in a foreign country studying hard. Combine that with the timezone difference and the sexy Spanish women, and you have a perfect storm of fail.

Its not all been doom and gloom however, QXC recently beat select in the finals of the NA champions trophy and won his final division match against Darkforce, showing that while he may have had his priorities elsewhere than the NASL (and rightly so in my opinion) he's certainly still got the magic. Out of the players whom will not be making the play-offs I confidently predict that should he decide to attempt qualification for season 2, he will make it in without much trouble (I hope I don't have to eat my words!). Now that he has made the pond hop to Korea, we can expect a fully focused QXC for the foreseeable future.

Rainbow - Not so shiny

One of only 2 Korean invitees with a losing record in the NASL, Rainbow certainly can not claim the usual "Lag" argument for his poor performance. No amount of lag makes you lose 6 series out of 9 to "lesser" players, Rainbow has simply been out played more often than not. I would not presume to say that Rainbow didn't take the NASL seriously, or that he is a bad player, however it now seems clear that he is no longer amongst the top tier of Korean players. Still, that fact remains that as a former code S player, I expected more.

Just to put things in to perspective, Rainbow was beaten by Grubby, Morrow, Sheth, TLO, Moon and Vibe. That's hardly a list of scrubs but I think most would agree that as someone who is credited as "one of the most influential BW players to never win a major tournament" there is little excuse for not being able to best what many would call a "mid-tier" pro in Vibe and the lackluster GrubbyGrubby. Did Rainbow simply not prepare? Were his priorities elsewhere? Did he simply give up? Maybe, however he still had a shot at making the play-offs if he could have just flipped one L to a W, flipping two would have secured him a fairly good seed to boot.

Perhaps this will finally put to rest the myth that even the worst Koreans are better than the best Foreigners...... or maybe not.

The Outclassed

Everyone has their own opinions about players, whether or not you like or dislike a player, skill is more important. There are a few players for whom participation in this league was never based on skill, I would challenge anyone to provide me with a solid reason for their participation other than name recognition. I feel that having these players in the NASL has only hurt the reputation of both the players themselves and the NASL, in a competition this stacked with talent there was never a need to have players solely there because they would bring in viewers, it has even at times turned viewers off of the NASL and turned some players into a punchline for the casters and viewers alike.


Artosis – A fallen Hero


Without doubt, in his day Artosis was one of the best Starcraft players outside of Korea. Unfortunately, this is not his day and there are many players whom deserved the spot more. No one loves Starcraft more than Artosis, that is why I was surprised he applied for the NASL. You may think that statement is oxymoronic, I however feel that his love for the game should have told him that he wasn't ready to be playing on such a big stage, love does not equal skill. After qualifying for the GSL way back in Season 1 he has never re-qualified for even code A. His TLPD entry is all but empty and he famously didn't even make it in to the Grand Master league.

Don't get me wrong, I have placed my Liquibet on Artosis nearly every week, I wanted to see him do well but the combination of lack of practice, the horrible time zone difference and the ever present latency problems from Korea have a sum total of making Artosis look out of place playing with some of the best that the Starcraft II world has to offer. Perhaps his record would look a touch better if not for the two walkovers he gave up due to internet problems, but his season was pretty much already over before that point having only managed to beat the equally lackluster Grubby.


Grubby – A Dutchman in New Amsterdam


Here is a simple case of brand recognition trumping substance. Many of his fellow Warcraft III comrades have made the move to Starcraft with resounding success, doubtless this bode well for one of the world's best Warcraft players. With an 1-8 record he finished 9th in his group, managing to finally eek out a 2-1 victory over Rainbow in the final week of division play.

At no point during the NASL have I ever been watching Grubby and believed he could win (even when he eventually did), nor have I been entertained by creative play or close games very often. There have been glimmers of brilliance, but they disappeared as fast as they arrived. Given time I truly believe Grubby has the potential to be successful, but he wasn't and isn't in the same league as 98% of the NASL field. His inclusion in the NASL meant that someone else was left out in the cold and forced to qualify for season 2.

I will give Grubby huge props for sticking out the season unlike some other players, that makes him a hero to me and I hope to see him do better in the future.

Parting Words

There are arguments for and against a selection system based partly on a popularity contest and I am sure many will disagree with my views. The simple facts of the case are this, some players in NASL Season 1 had no right being there, taking places from players whom had the potential to perhaps win the event but definitely taking places from people who would have at the very least secured themselves a spot in Season 2. If players had been forced to qualify for season 1 and then performed badly, at least I could defend the fact that they had earned their place and with a competition that was designed to be the "GSL of the West" there really is no excuse for not forcing players to qualify, even when we had to endure horrible players in the GSL open seasons, we could always say "Well they were good enough to qualify"

Those players whom were over looked in favour of Artosis and Grubby now have to win qualification instead of having it handed to them, if Artosis and Grubby had been forced to qualify there is very little doubt in my mind they would have failed and I will be pleasantly surprised if either manage to re-qualify for Season 2.

While a few other performances were disappointing, Drewbie, Machine, Goody, Ensnare most would have predicted them to do better. While I hoped for better from Artosis and Grubby, neither can truly say they under performed, they were simply beaten by better, more refined players week after week. The only "good" thing to come from their play was the Artosis Pylon and the Grubby Rally, when those are the only positive things I could say without being dishonest, something is amiss.



Predicting the Future of ESPORTS, Yesterday!
by Primadog


[image loading]

Group play as a tournament format has become more popular recently for major StarCraft tournaments. The characteristic of group play - large numbers of games played, pre-determined match-ups, and the round-robin structure - makes it an ideal candidate for statistical projection.

The NASL Prospectus is a weekly group-play projection that I have published since week 3 of NASL. It is an attempt to adopt the mathematics behind NCAA's football computer rankings to predict outcomes of StarCraft tournaments during its group stages. At its basis is an objective algorithm that utilizes only two input variables:
  1. The TLPD Elo of each player
  2. Current results of the tournament
With NASL divisional play complete, now is a perfect time to look back and evaluate how well the Prospectus have performed.


Hits and Misses

Let us start by comparing the first projection released on May 2nd with the actual divisional play results. The week 3 projection called 12 players' final results perfectly and 35 more within two match-ups of the players' actual records, but it missed on the results of Boxer (predicted 4-5 -1pt, actual 8-1 11pt), ClouD (predicted 6-3 5pt, actual 3-6 -6pt), and Sen (predicted 4-5 1pt, actual 7-2 11pt).

Compared with the actual post-season placements, the initial projection predicted 5 of the 10 automatic Grand Final spots, 12 of the 20 Playoff spots, and 11 of the 16 relegated players. Overall, it called player records to a 72% accuracy, but had an error rate of 46% error-rate in player scores. These results are slightly below the design goal of 70% accuracy by NASL week 3.

Week 3 Projections:
marked-up with correct predictions in bold and misses striked.
Top 2 of each division
  • Div 1: (Z)Moon (7-2, 7pt) (Z)Sheth (7-2, 8pt)
  • Div 2: (Z)DarKFoRcE (6-3, 2pt) (P)White-Ra (6-3, 3pt)
  • Div 3: (P)NaNiwa (7-2, 12pt) (T)Strelok (8-1, 9pt)
  • Div 4: (Z)Ace (8-1, 12pt) (T)SeleCT (6-3, 6pt)
  • Div 5: (Z)IdrA (8-1, 12pt) (T)ClouD (6-3, 5pt)

Qualify for playoffs
  • (P)Socke, (P)KiWiKaKi, (P)HasuObs, (Z)Ret, (T)TLO
  • (Z)MorroW, (P)CrunCher, (Z)SLush, (T)Fenix, (P)iNcontroL
  • (T)BRAT_OK, (P)Squirtle, (Z)Zenio, (T)Ensnare, (Z)July
  • (T)NaDa, (P)MC, (T)BoxeR, (Z)Sen,(T)KawaiiRice

Qualify for season 2
  • (T)SjoW, (Z)MoMaN, (T)dde, (P)Tyler

Relegated from NASL
  • (P)Axslav, (P)MaNa, (P)TT1, (P)Grubby, (T)Stalife
  • (P)RainBOw, (T)Drewbie, (T)qxc, (Z)Machine, (Z)CatZ
  • (Z)ViBE, (T)GoOdy, (Z)HayprO, (Z)mOOnGLaDe, (T)PainUser, (P)Artosis


Error Evaluation

One important concept behind the Prospectus is that, by using weekly updated group-play results and player Elos, the projections can become more accurate week-by-week. These updates roughly translate to a theoretical 5% improvement in projection accuracy per weeks. To quantitatively evaluate the weekly performances of the Prospectus, I use three accuracy indexes:
  1. How does the projected records compare with the actual records?
    (measured against the 225 match-ups of the NASL regular season)
  2. How does the projected scores compare with the actual scores?
    (Measuring against the maximum scoring error possible: 500pt)
  3. In NASL post-season, a player can either gain an automatic Grand Final spot, participate in the Play-offs, survive for next season, or be relegated from NASL. How many of these spots did the Prospectus hit on the mark each week?

[image loading]


As expected, the projection generally improved each week. By week 6 of NASL, the Prospectus has called the post-season spots for 38 players correctly, as well their final records and scores within 87% and 78% of actual value, respectively. In fact, the projected record have been consistently within 2% of the target accuracy goal. The predicted scores and player-states faired somewhat poorly in comparison.


Conclusion

The NASL Prospectus performed admirably on its initial run, calling a significant portion of the NASL group play, a month before the NASL regular season completed. This demonstrates that an objective algorithm, properly designed, can be useful for predicting group-play results in StarCraft tournaments.

However, any objective algorithms suffers inherent limitation in its predicative accuracy. The algorithm cannot not reliably account for intangibles such as walk-overs or players under-performing due to work or school. Additionally, with complex games such as StarCraft, a player's skill cannot be easily captured into a single variable. Therefore, machine projections such as the NASL Prospectus should ultimately be viewed as a good point-of-reference, rather than an Oracle for actual StarCraft tournament results.


Future Developments

There are areas for improvement within the Prospectus algorithm. Its current iteration does not account for players' performance per racial match-up (vT, vZ and vP), nor does it account for map imbalances. The TLPD provides sufficient data on these variables that a more sophisticated algorithms can improve the projection accuracy over one currently in use. In the coming weeks, I will propose various implementations of these variable, and test them against the data from NASL and MLG group play.


That's all we have for this week (is that the right phrase to use after such a long article?) The next time you see us, we'll be previewing the NASL finals.
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ModeratorGood content always wins.
Mateo0
Profile Joined August 2010
France112 Posts
June 16 2011 00:47 GMT
#2

[image loading] (P)MaNa vs. (T)IdrA – Man Who's Been Silent vs. The Gracken


You put Idra as terran there =)

Otherwise, I'm so excited about those playoff!
m4553 always in my heart.
Laneir
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1160 Posts
June 16 2011 00:49 GMT
#3
no better ttitle then what it says epic cant wait
Follow me on Instagram @Chef_Betto
BlooDRusH
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada9 Posts
June 16 2011 00:49 GMT
#4
God that was long
I'm good at everything i do.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13844 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 22:20:19
June 16 2011 00:54 GMT
#5
ermf Long response put in spoiler tags so it doesn't drag out too much

+ Show Spoiler [Response to this news post] +

1. The Players I can honestly not see where your going with your comment on play times. First season pros not knowing what they where getting into aside I think you ignore a few points about the good parts of them having an exact time for their matches. Bias: you have a Korean vs foreigner match just like most of them have been. Are you honestly going to ask NASL to make the distinction between who gets the time advantage between an american and a korean? Uniformity: Having a set schedule is a MUST for a production of this scale. They need to have their set hours if they even want to hope to have a broadcast and not burnout people from week to week. People have their matches set and having set times for them to slot those matches in (Idra talked about how his matches where slotted in before he could practice much against sen this has to say something about the different matches and the puzzle of getting everyone in to have their matches shown at the correct time on the stream. I will admit korean vs korean games and Euro vs euro games should be accommodating for the players but I hope you understand my points on this matter.

2. The commentators. I disagree wholeheartedly on this part. Gretorp had a lot more then reasonable workload. Incontrol I can understand trying to double as a caster and a player but Gretorp has to come to work every day and cast 5 bo3's at most only 15 matches. How is this 15 matches for an average workday unreasonable? At their most extreme matches can be 50 minutes to an hour. That would be unreasonable to make him cast for 14 12 hours a day. This is however not the case. I don't have all the statistics and I don't believe its collected but the average time of matches I do believe revolves around the 20-30 minute time. that means he's casting for a minimum (at 20 minutes each 2-0 bo3's) 3 and a half hours of casting. With a maximum of (with 30 minutes a match at 2-1 matches) 7 and a half hours of casting. Keep in mind everyone that gretorp and incontrol don't have to to worry about the show past the actual casting with their studio and production guys to handle editing. I remember hearing on inside the game recently that they idle a lot in the lobby waiting for people if their late or something. If they treat it as an normal job like they seem to have It wouldn't be a problem for anyone.

3. The points about the NFL are factually incorrect. They show every match at least on the local channels. Not to mention the NBA and MLB have a LOT more matches played then the NASL and they are all shown. Local channels show local teams there's nothing more to say on this. To have less players would mean they couldn't have 5 matches a day and I'm pretty sure thats one of their focal selling points.

(I thought game of the week was well done the playoff preview had a lot of werid things but I wouldn't say bad so I won't make any points about them I just wanted to address the parts I'm not actually going to address in depth.)

Before I get to the Last half of this retort I want to say some things about the overall post that I found lacking. I thought it was a great point in TEN (from here on forth the end is near is TEN) was throwing out an intro and a preview for the next article. A shout out to a different article and useing it as inspiration to give a preview was a great setup for the article. This never happened in the JD (from here on forth Judgement Day will be referred to as JD) article and it felt a lot longer especially with another 3 articles added to the post for some reason. This gave the entire post a really bad feeling combined with the lack of non graphs Graphics in all but one article on the post giveing out a really poor quality post overall. I'm sure this will be changed as the different writers get better with experience.

The Good, The Bad, and The Outclassed
This article was the makings of a blog that would have been locked for literally being horrible. Over and over again it goes into weird offensive cheap shots at the players. This article was quite simply insulting to each and every player you mentioned. Even the players you complemented had zero hype in them. I don't know what else to say Stick with what your good at and keep up the good match of the week reports.

I Do respect everyone on the NASL writing team and that is why I wrote this. Big fan of everyone (execpt motbot who's LR format's going down hardcore ) who puts in so much effort for these news posts and I can't wait to see them compete with the BW writers NASL writing team fighting!
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
TadH
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1846 Posts
June 16 2011 00:55 GMT
#6
On June 16 2011 09:47 Mateo0 wrote:
Show nested quote +

[image loading] (P)MaNa vs. (T)IdrA – Man Who's Been Silent vs. The Gracken


You put Idra as terran there =)

Otherwise, I'm so excited about those playoff!



Because that's from BW.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
June 16 2011 00:58 GMT
#7
Whoops, I forgot to hotlink the images in my article -_-

Fixed now.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Mr Showtime
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1353 Posts
June 16 2011 01:02 GMT
#8
I loved that chart about win percentages...... it proved absolutely nothing. In fact, you used it to make a point that the spread is much greater when it only showed that NASL is similar to the NBA and NFL, and the MLB has a very tight spread. Not sure where you were going with that.
Flicky
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
England2659 Posts
June 16 2011 01:05 GMT
#9
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote:
You Finished First. Here's Your Reward! Hometeam favorite Liquid’Ret is rewarded for his #1 seed with a first-round Finals match against the winner of the Open Bracket, who will very likely be a fantastic player. The open qualifier player ought to be seeded #16


I'm glad someone else noticed this and has put it out there where it will be seen. I was so flummoxed by seeing the first seed going (after 9 weeks of hard work) going up against whoever won the open bracket competition. With so many incredible players in the open qualifier I have a hard time imagining that the winner of that will be worse than a 15th/16th seed.
Liquipedia"I was seriously looking for a black guy" - MrHoon
Trawlen
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom13 Posts
June 16 2011 01:07 GMT
#10
Just gonna drop this here :
Im in the UK and i know we're having streaming issues BUT when i click on 480p quality, it tells me to buy a HD pass. And last time i checked, 480p wasn't HD and has been free all season long up until now.

Bug or intended?
ppgButtercup
Profile Joined July 2009
United States159 Posts
June 16 2011 01:15 GMT
#11
Excellent write up. This has actually re-perked my interest in the NASL as I haven't really been following it as closely these last few weeks.
If at first you do not succeed, burn everything and pretend it never happened.
Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
June 16 2011 01:16 GMT
#12
Oh man, did it take weeks to write this up? =P

Amazing, nice work!
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
Dayrlan
Profile Joined November 2010
United States248 Posts
June 16 2011 01:20 GMT
#13
I read through a huge portion of the article, seeing if I might become interested in NASL (whereas I haven't been previously -- at least not enough to pay money for it). But I have to say... the bold, size 40 font "The NASL Format is Bad" is pretty jarring. >_>
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
June 16 2011 01:21 GMT
#14
Why does Ret, who spent weeks working hard and playing fantastic games on a comeback after losing to Ace, have to be punished by an open tournament winner who didn't play in the NASL for nearly 2 months?
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
GhostFall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States830 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 01:22:59
June 16 2011 01:21 GMT
#15
I would like to say that stuff like the Zone of Mediocrity make sense in the sense it makes every game " matter". We already saw a few players not play as seriously as they could because the game didn't matter. If we take out the zone of mediocrity, we'll have more scenarios where a game doesn't matter.


also, the long ass format does suck for the players, and that is a lot of starcraft to watch, but the format is to eliminate as much luck as possible. You cannot take anyone who is going to the finals and say he did not earn that spot. Motbob's suggestion of only showing a few highlight matches is a great suggestion. I believe being cast live from playing and being casted live from replays should be up to the 2 players to decide each week.

Also, the number of different win percentages of the NASL will get smaller the more seasons of NASL is run. NASL will become harder and more competitive, simply because the weaker players are replaced with stronger ones.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
June 16 2011 01:28 GMT
#16
To be fair to Rainbow, he probably had more lag troubles than any other Korean. ( I think in the like the first 3 weeks he lagged out everytime on Crossfire) He still underpreformed though.
Great writeup though
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
sPaM916
Profile Joined March 2011
United States71 Posts
June 16 2011 01:33 GMT
#17
I agree, a system more similar to ipl or mlg, where its double elimination bracket would've still ensured for the most part that the best players advance would have been more entertaining and just better.
zoniusalexandr
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States39 Posts
June 16 2011 01:51 GMT
#18
The charts about the spread of win rates among various sports don't tell you anything about the win rates in those leagues, they're only showing you the differences in sample size. The NASL has 9 matches per player, the NFL has 16, the NBA has 82, and MLB has a whopping 162, which is why the MLB has the tightest spread. (More observations = less variance)

You need to rescale the standard deviations by multiplying by the square root of the number of games (look up the formula for the standard deviation of a sampling distribution) to get the standard deviation of the population win rates. If you do that, you get the true standard deviations:
NASL = 0.72
NFL = 0.76
NBA = 1.49
MLB = 0.89

The NASL actually has the lowest spread among "true" or population win rates for the various leagues.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 02:17:56
June 16 2011 02:11 GMT
#19
On June 16 2011 10:51 zoniusalexandr wrote:
The charts about the spread of win rates among various sports don't tell you anything about the win rates in those leagues, they're only showing you the differences in sample size. The NASL has 9 matches per player, the NFL has 16, the NBA has 82, and MLB has a whopping 162, which is why the MLB has the tightest spread. (More observations = less variance)

You need to rescale the standard deviations by multiplying by the square root of the number of games (look up the formula for the standard deviation of a sampling distribution) to get the standard deviation of the population win rates. If you do that, you get the true standard deviations:
NASL = 0.72
NFL = 0.76
NBA = 1.49
MLB = 0.89

The NASL actually has the lowest spread among "true" or population win rates for the various leagues.

While researching this, I googled "variance in win rates sports" and a result from Team Liquid was on the first page of the google results. Weird.

You're right, my stats are fatally flawed. But your solution isn't quite perfect either, I think. Now I'm going to have to make this into a long-term project and spend hours and hours figuring it out -_-
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
June 16 2011 02:14 GMT
#20
Motbob's section titled "The NASL Format is Bad" needs to be questioned. His graphs fall far short of proving his point that the professional sports leagues succeed at providing high quality games with a league format while the NASL fails at doing so with the same format. Are the differences in the NBA and NASL graphs statistically significant enough that we can reasonably conclude that NBA games are less lopsided than NASL games? How can we even tell whether a game was lopsided when all we know is who won? The distinction he tries to make between the NFL and NASL is kind of silly also. For one thing, the NFL broadcasts different games to different regions, as it is required to show viewers their local teams. Second, the distinction is irrelevant to motbob's argument that the NFL has succeeded in providing high quality games with a league format while the NASL has failed. All motbob is pointing out here is that the NFL has managed to sidestep its supposed flawed league format.
yiodee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States137 Posts
June 16 2011 02:15 GMT
#21
Sorry, this rant is as useless as the "elephant in the room" article.

I feel like you could have been more constructive. Saying that x is bad is pointless unless you say what x can be substituted with.

I personally like the format of NASL, because regardless of who suffers or for whom the league is bad, it delivers what it was meant to deliver: a great amount of games 5 days a week, with great players and with a large prize pool. Incontrol would agree with me. These were the goals of NASL and they delivered.

Sure they can improve, but this is only its first season. We expect it to improve as much as MLG improved itself.
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
June 16 2011 02:22 GMT
#22
the wall of text crited me hard but seriously this rant is way to cool and awesome loved it
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
OneofDays
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada58 Posts
June 16 2011 02:25 GMT
#23
I can't wait anymore to see those finals matches. I'm a bit surprised thought by the number of protosses in the last round !

I hope the matches will be interesting and as good as the last NASL ones.

FIGHTING!
EG.IdrA - "Immortal / Roach is pretty good against stalkers."
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
June 16 2011 02:37 GMT
#24
I must say I'm impressed by Gretorp's effort after thinking about how much he has to cast everyday. Gretorp Hwaiting!
darkness overpowering
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 02:58:42
June 16 2011 02:58 GMT
#25
exciting for sure! i hope dde beats Zenio, he is just a pleasure to watch
SiCkO_
Profile Joined September 2010
United States481 Posts
June 16 2011 03:00 GMT
#26
I would love to see an OSL/MSL format instead of this personally but it was entertaining to watch, hopefully the finals are awesome
SKT Toss line Fighting! | Bisu, BeSt, By.Sun! |
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
June 16 2011 03:04 GMT
#27
IdrA is listed as Terran throughout the article, and djWHEAT is stylized as <- that, not DjWheat, I'm sure he'd rage balls if he saw this!

Otherwise, great article. Ret's curse of being first is plain bad on NASL's part.
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
June 16 2011 03:08 GMT
#28
In MLB and in the NBA, viewers don't watch every match. They watch nationally televised matches (AKA the good matches) and those of their local teams. This, again, brings up the average quality of the games watched, unless you're a Cubs fan.



I don't even hate the cubs, but this put a smile on my face.
McBrungus
Profile Joined April 2011
United States265 Posts
June 16 2011 03:16 GMT
#29
@motbob

Did you REALLY need to drag the Cubs into this?! I just paid a bajillion dollars to watch the Phillies kick the ever loving shit out of my beloved Cubs, so I console myself with SC2 coverage on TL. AND WHAT DO I FIND THERE? CUBS BASHING!

You make my heart sad.
So I says to Mabel, I says...
DuB phool
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1003 Posts
June 16 2011 03:45 GMT
#30
That's like.. a billion words. I've read parts, thanks for the writeup. I might even finish it all someday.
"overwatch is jesus" - motbob 2016
cablesc
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1540 Posts
June 16 2011 03:53 GMT
#31
On June 16 2011 10:05 Flicky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote:
You Finished First. Here's Your Reward! Hometeam favorite Liquid’Ret is rewarded for his #1 seed with a first-round Finals match against the winner of the Open Bracket, who will very likely be a fantastic player. The open qualifier player ought to be seeded #16


I'm glad someone else noticed this and has put it out there where it will be seen. I was so flummoxed by seeing the first seed going (after 9 weeks of hard work) going up against whoever won the open bracket competition. With so many incredible players in the open qualifier I have a hard time imagining that the winner of that will be worse than a 15th/16th seed.


Sure the 16 seed could be someone like thorzain, but did you know that the 15 seed could be MC, and the 14 seed could be Naniwa. The playoffs and final bracket are so stacked, that you're going to have huge matchups no matter what. Sure NASL could have dediced to put the open winner at 11 (right behind all the automatic qualifiers but ahead of the playoff qualifiers) but I'm not sure it makes that much of a difference.
Slayers Forever! Rip. :( - Not the eSports organizer, that's CableStarcraft.
muffley
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States280 Posts
June 16 2011 04:01 GMT
#32
I agree with not casting every series (even if they commentate every one). Since they'll know days in advance what games will be shown, what is to be shown will be known by viewers in plenty of time. Say, minimum of 3 series (if they're exceptionally bad), but show all 5 if they're really all that good.
edwahn
Profile Joined March 2011
New Zealand121 Posts
June 16 2011 04:01 GMT
#33
I can understand the statistical flaw but his main point is still valid; NASL had some horrible mismatches in terms of skill level.

While the outcome of the match is important (win-lose) what is equally important is how it got to that point. A sports team winning 80% of their games in one season is one thing to consider, but a a series of games where the scorecard, as an example: soccer, read 23-0 is a joke.

I guess because Starcraft 2 games' "score" is diluted by competent macro mechanics across most pro players, it's hard to see the true gulf in skill level (decision making, multitasking, micro and innovation).

Equally bad as skill mismatch is of course when both players fumble around like 29 year old virgins in bed.

That is not to say that MLG/GSL did not have its share of embarrassments *cough inca v nestea*
iYiYi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States489 Posts
June 16 2011 04:07 GMT
#34
They really just need to make NASL shorter. I am pretty sure that will fix most of the problems. It drags on forever right now.
Happy Frog
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia490 Posts
June 16 2011 04:14 GMT
#35
motbob is best bob

(Rest of the NASL writing team is pretty good too ^^)

High quality article(s), awesome as always
PimpWilly
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 04:16:31
June 16 2011 04:14 GMT
#36
The NFL casts every single game each week, it only broadcasts a select few depending on your area, but if you own the NFL ticket you can watch every game. After that the whole section kind of fell apart, this really feels like more of a blog king of thing

But I agree that having a sort of "ESPN Zone" recap giving the highlights of most of the matches would be a good thing to do, because not many people have that much time to watch all the games.
mikyaJ
Profile Joined April 2011
1834 Posts
June 16 2011 04:26 GMT
#37
Lol the "The NASL Format is Bad" section, was that a spite at "The Elephant in the Room"?

What I got from it was that nobody wants to see the 0% winrate people face the 100% winrate so why show it.
MKP||TSL
badcnr
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada116 Posts
June 16 2011 05:21 GMT
#38
well i definately loved watching the nasl it was always a treat to be able to come home relax and watch some good starcraft. not sure if its been an idea or not but why not put a small sum of money per win on in the regular season ? 5 bucks per win for every game yes would a decent sum of money but with such a jackpot sum at the end it might motivate players to show up or play top game near the end? but cant wait to see next season gg glhf
Z3kk
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4099 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 05:22:25
June 16 2011 05:21 GMT
#39
Whoa, this is quite an unforgiving playoff format :X If the player loses one out of two Bo3s, he's out of the tournament, period. :O
Failure is not falling down over and over again. Failure is refusing to get back up.
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
June 16 2011 05:33 GMT
#40
So for all the previews, the non-koreans were the one being focused on and predicted that they could win. I'm okay with this except thinking that Cruncher has a legitimate chance of beating MC due to his pvp versus random NA ladder players is just way out there.

LaughingTulkas
Profile Joined March 2008
United States1107 Posts
June 16 2011 05:33 GMT
#41
Great articles! Thanks for all the time and effort put into this. Looking forward to Motbob revamped stats (if they are forthcoming).
"I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill
Znoz
Profile Joined January 2011
Latvia127 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 05:55:28
June 16 2011 05:55 GMT
#42
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote:
(P)ACE vs. (T)BRAT_OK – The Obvious Winner vs. The Comeback

I may be just an ignorant American, but I have heard almost nothing about BRAT_OK since the beta. If he manages to beat Ace, then it can mean the beginning of a beautiful resurgence of popularity. Ace has a habit of winning foreign tournaments, and if BRAT_OK can stop him now, then consider me a renewed fan.This is the kind of match you have to tune into just to see if BRAT_OK wins/

Looks like you missed some games in league:
http://nasl.tv/Match/Details/bratok-vs-ace-season-1-week-4-match-4

It's more like "Regame or Revenge match" ^_^.
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
June 16 2011 06:10 GMT
#43
I like the suggestion that they not cast all the games, and instead release the more lop-sided games as replays. This is especially good, I think, because sometimes the best games to analyze the replays of are the ones that are the most lop-sided
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
sc2guy
Profile Joined November 2010
291 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 06:17:37
June 16 2011 06:15 GMT
#44
Great article. 3 things I feel strongly against.

- Ret vs. Open tournament winner is just plain stupid.

- I think it is not logical to take top 2 from each division to the main bracket, but for qualifiers, you will base on win-lose for all divisions. They should just take the next top 4 ranks in the division to play for qualifiers. And players who already qualify that throw away matches will upset the whole balance.

- I really don't understand how a player is ranked 9 in his division (9/10) but can still qualify automatically for next season. Somebody please enlighten me.
✿◕‿◕✿ Taeng
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
June 16 2011 06:54 GMT
#45
1) Not casting a terrible game is a great idea.
2) The American Select rant was hilarious.
3) Artosis is still the best player in the world. He should get an auto-invite for next season.
4 & 5) Artosis is still the best player in the world. He should get an auto-invite for next season.
I had a good night of sleep.
manloveman
Profile Joined April 2011
424 Posts
June 16 2011 07:10 GMT
#46
Where is white-ra in all this. Cant see him anywhere, but i see tt1 which was below him in his devision
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
June 16 2011 07:15 GMT
#47
Nice read.
I think the group stage of this tournament has done a good job of separating the men from the boys to a certain extent. I can only imagine season 2 being that much more competitive.
Can't wait for the playoffs!
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
June 16 2011 07:24 GMT
#48
Amazing write up. Unlike most people I really liked the casual casting done by gretorp and incontrol by week 3+. A lot of the inside jokes, and the comfortable way they do it. Just like mr.bitter + gretorp was a great combo. I definitely felt that gretorp had way too many games to cast as well. So possibly 4 "regular" casters, 2pairs doing different matches, and then have guest casters w/ one of the originals.
liftlift > tsm
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10321 Posts
June 16 2011 07:24 GMT
#49
Wow super long and nice read, thanks!

Boxer fighting!
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
ChadMann
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia128 Posts
June 16 2011 08:15 GMT
#50
On June 16 2011 09:47 Mateo0 wrote:
Show nested quote +

[image loading] (P)MaNa vs. (T)IdrA – Man Who's Been Silent vs. The Gracken


You put Idra as terran there =)

Otherwise, I'm so excited about those playoff!


Didn't you know IdrA race switched?... taking his macro mechanics power to the terran pieces...
#1 ANZ SC2 Team Manager https://twitter.com/ChadMannSC2
Swap
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden144 Posts
June 16 2011 08:25 GMT
#51
The Jim Lloyd write-up were superb!
he he... ja
DoubleB
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany870 Posts
June 16 2011 08:45 GMT
#52
I really love the part about "The Good, The Bad, and The Outclassed"!
Really well article in gerneral!
razy
Profile Joined February 2010
Russian Federation899 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 08:52:52
June 16 2011 08:46 GMT
#53
On June 16 2011 14:55 Znoz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote:
(P)ACE vs. (T)BRAT_OK – The Obvious Winner vs. The Comeback

I may be just an ignorant American, but I have heard almost nothing about BRAT_OK since the beta. If he manages to beat Ace, then it can mean the beginning of a beautiful resurgence of popularity. Ace has a habit of winning foreign tournaments, and if BRAT_OK can stop him now, then consider me a renewed fan.This is the kind of match you have to tune into just to see if BRAT_OK wins/

Looks like you missed some games in league:
http://nasl.tv/Match/Details/bratok-vs-ace-season-1-week-4-match-4

It's more like "Regame or Revenge match" ^_^.


Don't forget he used "ignorant american" excuse! As if it means anything more like "i-don't-follow-any-eu-tournaments-except-lans" :p

P.s. Although i can say who won already because i know which is brat's NA acc and he uses it to play only NASL games, it seems ^^
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
June 16 2011 09:16 GMT
#54
Some really tough match ups left after a considerably hard route to get this far. Once again expecting some really great games.
Deleuze
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom2102 Posts
June 16 2011 09:24 GMT
#55
Thanks TL and NASL writers and drawers, great read and good work.
“An image of thought called philosophy has been formed historically and it effectively stops people from thinking.” ― Gilles Deleuze, Dialogues II
Kira__
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden2672 Posts
June 16 2011 09:26 GMT
#56
"the person is aware of the general geographic location of the United States"
The truth is, Yagami-kun, I suspect that you may in fact be Kira.
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 09:52:05
June 16 2011 09:50 GMT
#57
I must say I kinda like the 10-20-4-16 format. It makes more games matter when theres more arbitrary lines drawn here and there. Right now theres 3 lines, making it 4 groups, tbh i think it could be more. The biggest group, the 20, could definitely use another line to distinguish between 3rd place finishers and 6th place finishers. Obviously the seeding is the difference, but depending a bit on seeding luck you might end up in a situation where someone going 7-2 and placing 3rd in his group gets roughly the same treatment as someone going 4-5 and placing 6th.

I kinda like the GSL up/down matches where Code S 3rd place finishers gets two shots at staying in Code S where 4th place only gets one. I wouldnt mind something similar, like rather than playing a stright up 4player mini playoff, you could make it so that the 7-2 and 3rd place finisher enters that mini-playoff last game and only has to win one game, where others have to win 2 or 3 games.

Obviously you could make it in plenty of ways, but thats why I kinda would like even more arbitrary lines. Ideally finishing 4th instead of 5th or finishing 8th insetad of 9th would all be notable advantages, but maybe thats asking a bit too much.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
June 16 2011 09:55 GMT
#58
To be fair to the NASL Prospectus, TLO did make the playoffs, he just forfeited his spot due to injury. But um, you listed Incontrol in the playoffs as a correct pick rather than Moman. So I guess it's a wash.

My beef with the Artosis/Grubby thing isn't that they invited them (it's an invite system, what can you do). But that they put them in the same group. Sure they had a category for up-and-comers, but at least those were people who had competed in major tournaments. Sticking Artosis and Grubby as two almost complete unknowns (yes Artosis streams and Grubby did have some showing in Europe, but nothing major I believe?) together was just asking for a skewed division.
Voltus
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia30 Posts
June 16 2011 10:03 GMT
#59
When did NASL stop giving 480p viewing for free?
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
June 16 2011 10:28 GMT
#60
Awesome, awesome write-up. Special shoutout to JimLloyd: The guy knows how to write a great article, seriously.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
croqdot
Profile Joined October 2010
United States60 Posts
June 16 2011 10:35 GMT
#61
The writeup comparing NASL to major American sports is completely flawed. All the major leagues broadcast ALL games. However, because many teams aren't that good, only the top matchups are broadcast NATIONALLY. NASL could do the same, focusing the top matchups each week, but also making it so that every player gets 1 or 2 casted series over the season. The alternative is to actually mirror the major sports league format, in which case NASL will have to hire more casters.
L3g3nd_
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand10461 Posts
June 16 2011 10:36 GMT
#62
thurs gonna be awesome, rooting for morrow!
https://twitter.com/#!/IrisAnother
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
June 16 2011 10:39 GMT
#63
I think this season for Grubby came too soon, as while hes done ok in some online tourneys, generally playing like a third the time as everyone else in stararcft 2 he still seems to be stuck so far behind. Hopefully somethign will click for NASL season 2 and he manages to requalify and gives a better impression!!!
Live and Let Die!
PapaHades
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovakia9 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 11:52:43
June 16 2011 11:48 GMT
#64
[image loading]

User was temp banned for this post.
legaton
Profile Joined December 2010
France1763 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 12:02:55
June 16 2011 11:51 GMT
#65
To be fair, i think the invite system the NASL used was not so bad and they were able to scout some real talent in the weak North-American scene like Vibe and DDE.I remember well i was one of the numerous people laughing hard at these "nobodies" and asking for better players, but they show they deserved the spot in the NASL. They will probably become even better. Therefore, it was a good call from the NASL and i was deeply wrong at those times.

Even if Grubby and Artosis are bad, i believe the NASL was also right to give them a spot. As fans, we still are on a learning stage. If they hadn't called them, people would still be talking about the "unknown" potential and about how unfair ir was not to take them. I believe that now, the vast majority of fans learnt that you can love a player, but realize he doesn't have yet the ability to play on the big stage.

On the other hand,the criteria for picking korean players always looked weak to me. Celebrity was the N°1 factor and that's perfectly fine. Nada, July, MC and Boxer are confirmed good players and famous, and that was good for the NASL and the fans. But what about the other players? It seemed to me they chose a bunch of random mid-tier korean pros. It seems to me they were scare to pick better players because they didn't want to end with play-off series just between koreans.

But i agree with all the critics in the format. Frankly, the league stage is not really interesting and the last two weeks were truly awful. On one hand, you had the already qualified players throwing away matches and the already eliminated players (not) playing even worst than before.

No GG, No Skill - Jaedong <3
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 12:08:31
June 16 2011 12:05 GMT
#66
I agree with some of the criticisms. There are simply too many low quality games to watch(whether they are low quality due to the production or the games themselves is debatable), and I end up turning off the stream before my favorite games are on. And since this is Starcraft, it can take quite a while for my most-anticipated match to start.

In the NBA, you can have 8 games going on at one night, but you can easily choose which one to watch. If the NASL went with the MLG method and split their streams in two, it would make things a lot easier.

Something like this:

RED Stream, Cast by Gretorp and TotalBiscuit: Starting at 19:00 PST

Games:

BoxeR vs. Mana
iNcontroL vs. Sheth

BLUE Stream, Cast by iNcontroL and MrBitter: Starting at 20:00 PST

Games:

IdrA vs. Morrow
Zenio vs. MC


I think it's a more appealing format than 4 BO3's in a row.
/commercial
zeenix1
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden89 Posts
June 16 2011 12:13 GMT
#67
Hell of a article, and I agree with most of it. I for one love NASL, and I feel abit bad for all the fields of NASL that I would like to improve. Gretorp must stay however, but alot of other things much change!
syrupychinadian
Profile Joined September 2010
112 Posts
June 16 2011 12:15 GMT
#68
wow, massive post.

Some harsh criticism for the NASL, but i think most, if not all, of the points are valid so a good job to the all the writers.
True_Spike
Profile Joined July 2004
Poland3416 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 12:47:04
June 16 2011 12:45 GMT
#69
Audience-wise, the commentators are the weakest thing in NASL in my opinion. I do not believe it's the excessive workload that is at fault here, though, with all due respect to the casters.
TheBanana
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway2183 Posts
June 16 2011 12:58 GMT
#70
On June 16 2011 14:55 Znoz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote:
(P)ACE vs. (T)BRAT_OK – The Obvious Winner vs. The Comeback

I may be just an ignorant American, but I have heard almost nothing about BRAT_OK since the beta. If he manages to beat Ace, then it can mean the beginning of a beautiful resurgence of popularity. Ace has a habit of winning foreign tournaments, and if BRAT_OK can stop him now, then consider me a renewed fan.This is the kind of match you have to tune into just to see if BRAT_OK wins/

Looks like you missed some games in league:
http://nasl.tv/Match/Details/bratok-vs-ace-season-1-week-4-match-4

It's more like "Regame or Revenge match" ^_^.


Yeah, I was thinking that to.
BRAT_OK beating Ace was one of the few games I watched live.
If you're not getting better faster than everybody else, you're getting worse.
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
June 16 2011 13:29 GMT
#71
wew.. i need a shower after that read.
Didn't know what i was getting myself into.
Glad i followed through with it tho.
I find the Prospectus very very interesting.
Hopefully season 2 will have a deeper skill pool.

ahaha Unnecessarily Inflammatory Title.

i <3 the battle reports!
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Furycrab
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada456 Posts
June 16 2011 14:03 GMT
#72
The information contained in this post does not constitute legal advice, is governed by our Terms and Conditions Of Use, and we, the NASL writing team, are not acting as your attorney. We make no claims, promises or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained in or linked to this post.
In no event will the NASL writing team be held liable to any party for any damages arising in any way out of the availability, use, reliance on or inability to use any information provided by or through the NASL writing team's posts, or for any claim attributable to errors, omissions or other inaccuracies in, or destructive properties of any information provided by the NASL writing team.


This made me giggle.

But ya, I'm one to believe the format is better than some of the articles lead it on to be. GSL for instance uses single elimination a whole lot more and yet I'd challenge that NASL in it's highs still managed to produce better games than a GSL finals .

I can only see it growing better and better seeing the next season will have fewer and fewer "flake outs". All the "bubble" spots (4) in my mind is pretty much the lowest level of competition the next season could possibly have, and seeing the names who are in those spots, that really can't be bad if this is technically the worst the next season has to offer. *I mean only to compliment those 4 players btw.
Too tired to come up with something witty.
Karnac
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada16 Posts
June 16 2011 14:47 GMT
#73
In terms of the quality of games, we can only expect to see that raise. Most of the "bad" or completly outclassed player have been relegated from the league this season and those slot will be filled by players who actually need to qualify through play (rather than reputation).

If it works correctly, the bottom rung of the league season by season will get closer to the skill level at the top.

Just look at pro sports in the 60s-80s, competition was less even back then because of the lower average quality of incoming players. In modern sports now, Dynastys are unheard of.
Andrizzleton
Profile Joined April 2011
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 15:02:00
June 16 2011 14:55 GMT
#74
Great write up. this must have taken a lot of work. It's all appreciated and points out the good, the bad and the ugly in the NASL. Hopefully they take what doesn't work back to the drawing board before Season 2. The subscriber price point and the additional cost of the finals is a bit much to ask IMHO. I would like to see a team league or a tiered competition system such as the different codes in GSL.

Great point about the casters too. As much as I've grown to not despise Grerorp's commentary I still want there to be another set of casters to mix it up as well as give the torp a break. Speaking of casters, last night we were treated to Idra vs Zenio. Diggity and Moletrap did a decent job for the most part however the bias in their voice was like nails on a chalkboard. Please be a little more professional next time guys.

Since it's inception the NASL has been plagued with production issues. It's a far cry from the dark ages of when it first began but it still has a long way to go. Hopefully they can work out the kinks for the finals and Season 2.
dreday
TheResidentEvil
Profile Joined September 2010
United States991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 15:33:13
June 16 2011 15:27 GMT
#75
i dont agree with motbob saying the NFL doesn't show all its games because it does. Every single NFL game is broadcast even if the two worst teams are playing each other. You can pay to get them all.

Now if you compared how the NFL tries to pick the best games to show nationally then yes you have a much more sound argument but saying

"The NFL does not show all its games"

is a flat out lie. I get them all. Go to any sports bar on sunday..there they are.

There is too much bad in this article and not enough good for an initial season. The NASL has gotten a wide variety of players from all over the world to go to Cali and fight it out. You can't tell me the NASL is all bad. I mean, what other league has got Slayers Boxer into the US?

I bought a pass and stopped watching halfway through the season because there is just too many leagues. i check the standings still and watch a random game here or there on vods but no way in hell im missing the finals
zeenix1
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden89 Posts
June 16 2011 16:01 GMT
#76
As for the low-quality games,.. less americans? :p
(huge flame inc *getting my fire-extinguisher*)
Shoggoth
Profile Joined February 2011
England75 Posts
June 16 2011 16:39 GMT
#77
*1 year later* yes good read
Fiend of a thousand faces
EnOmy
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia183 Posts
June 16 2011 16:52 GMT
#78
Interesting. Very well written and I read it all. I'm a fan on the NASL but I do concur with you feelings about it's shortcomings though perhaps not too passionately.
GG WP //// 24yo.M
Syrupjuice
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States173 Posts
June 16 2011 17:03 GMT
#79
Wow, great article. I really enjoyed the part about SeleCT's nationality in "You Don't Have to Go Home, But You Can't Stay Here" by JimLloyd. He is an excellent writer. Plus, he mentioned YourFriend. I actually know that guy (the actual player) and he's been training really intensely lately. I hope he does well, I'll definitely be rooting for him.
ubdu
Profile Joined November 2010
United States3 Posts
June 16 2011 17:47 GMT
#80
I agree with everything JimLloyd said.
Android hell is real.
ct2299
Profile Joined February 2011
380 Posts
June 16 2011 17:56 GMT
#81
Pretty interesting I have to say. Rainbow is listed as "bad" and Artosis and Grubby as "overrated", but there is no mention of CatZ who went 1-8 as well or Dewbie 2-7. lol.
Mojitsu
Profile Joined February 2011
9 Posts
June 16 2011 18:44 GMT
#82
NASL can fcuk off for 360p only for non subscribers

User was warned for this post
000.Zulu
Profile Joined September 2007
Germany83 Posts
June 16 2011 19:29 GMT
#83
Awesome read, mad props, I LIKE!
Omnes rera cum vis cogitationis et finirit si quam unus cogitatio conservatio virium manet.
alexhard
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden317 Posts
June 16 2011 20:08 GMT
#84
On June 16 2011 20:51 legaton wrote:
To be fair, i think the invite system the NASL used was not so bad and they were able to scout some real talent in the weak North-American scene like Vibe and DDE.I remember well i was one of the numerous people laughing hard at these "nobodies" and asking for better players, but they show they deserved the spot in the NASL. They will probably become even better. Therefore, it was a good call from the NASL and i was deeply wrong at those times.


The NASL rejected Bomber, probably the best T in the world. Yeah vibe and dde performed better than expected, but saying that makes their spot deserved is a stretch.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
June 16 2011 20:43 GMT
#85
Excellent coverage and articles guys, gj.
flodeskum
Profile Joined September 2010
Iceland1267 Posts
June 16 2011 21:36 GMT
#86
On June 17 2011 05:08 alexhard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2011 20:51 legaton wrote:
To be fair, i think the invite system the NASL used was not so bad and they were able to scout some real talent in the weak North-American scene like Vibe and DDE.I remember well i was one of the numerous people laughing hard at these "nobodies" and asking for better players, but they show they deserved the spot in the NASL. They will probably become even better. Therefore, it was a good call from the NASL and i was deeply wrong at those times.


The NASL rejected Bomber, probably the best T in the world. Yeah vibe and dde performed better than expected, but saying that makes their spot deserved is a stretch.

At the time Bomber hadn't even played a single game in the gsl or gstl. It would have been strange, to say the least, to include him over proven code-s players.
IdrA: " my fans are kinda retarded"
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 16 2011 21:37 GMT
#87
NASL is going to get better with every season.

Bad for the Players?
Would it be unreasonable to tell the players to agree upon a time of their match? Or give them an ultimate time which they must play, but allow them to play sooner if they can agree upon a time that is more reasonable to both of them?

Bad of the Commentators?
The number of games in the regular season is crucial for truly determining the best players. Almost any top pro can upset another top pro depending on the many variables that go into a Sc2 match, including but not limited to:
Having a bad day
The map
The matchup
The current metagame
The strategies chosen by each player
Cheese etc.

The best possible way to find the best possible player is to play a regular season format like the NASL has set up. The number of games is a necessary evil. If the demand on the casters is too great, The best solution is to increase the number of commentators.

Bad for the Viewers?
Just like the GSL keeps creating more and more close matches as time goes on, so will the NASL. Deciding who the best players in the world are is a much more time consuming process that a single tournament. The NASL had to start somewhere, just like any tournament does. And next season, with the current format, is going to be comprised only of those who fought to be there. American Professional sports leagues have been around for a long long time, leading to the best players, best coaches and staff in the US being in the leagues. This is a "problem" that ough to be revisited after the 3rd season of the NASL, if not later.

Some critism

Bo5 for Playoffs
i would definitely like to see Bo5 in the playoff part of the NASL, if not throughout at least in the second round, Bo3 while exciting, will less often produce the superior player that Bo5, obviously this can be applied to Bo7, Bo9 etc, but i think a Bo5 is a nice compromise between the demand of the player and the consistancy of the outcome.

Interdivisional Play
I think there would be even more exciting possibilities and stories if the regular season were to have games between people of different divisions. Also it would make the overall ranking of the league more legitimate. As some divisions will by definition will be easier or harder for particular players.

Thanks for reading
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
JaKaTaKSc2
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2787 Posts
June 16 2011 22:01 GMT
#88
To Artosis, if you're reading this:

I BELIEVE IN YOU!

I WANT TO SEE YOU SMASHING TOURNAMENTS MORE THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER!

NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER!!
Commentatorhttps://www.youtube.com/JaKaTaKtv
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 22:26:50
June 16 2011 22:25 GMT
#89
On June 17 2011 02:56 ct2299 wrote:
Pretty interesting I have to say. Rainbow is listed as "bad" and Artosis and Grubby as "overrated", but there is no mention of CatZ who went 1-8 as well or Dewbie 2-7. lol.


where in the hell did you get "over rated" from? the title was OUTCLASSED, and while catz did not do well he was at the very least entertaining and drewbie would have been predicted to do better, artosis ans grubby were selected on name basis alone..... that was the point of the piece, next time please read it properly before posting your thoughts

p.s the bad was aimed at players who vastly under performed, again i suggest you comprehend what you read before you post
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
Kajarn
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-16 23:03:07
June 16 2011 23:02 GMT
#90
On June 16 2011 09:40 motbob wrote:


The NFL has a high variance in win percentages, similar to the NASL, but there is one very important difference between the two leagues: the NFL doesn't show all of its games. It highlights the best games on Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, and Monday night. The vast majority of the games on the NFL's schedule go unseen by the viewing public. That's how the NFL keeps the average game quality of their league high.

Likewise, the NASL should cull terrible matchups from its broadcast schedule. Perhaps if Zenio is playing Painuser on Friday, the NASL should choose not to commentate that match and release replays instead (thus also reducing the casters' workloads.) Another solution might be to cast all five matches, and to simply not broadcast the worst one. Five best of threes per night is a ridiculous amount of Starcraft, and reducing the daily dose to only four won't disappoint many people, especially if the remaining match is released in the form of replays.

In MLB and in the NBA, viewers don't watch every match. They watch nationally televised matches (AKA the good matches) and those of their local teams. This, again, brings up the average quality of the games watched, unless you're a Cubs fan.

I'm of the opinion, in addition, that there are simply too many players in the NASL. But that aspect of the league, I think, is unlikely to change, so I won't spend any time talking about it.


Ok, your analysis completely misses the point of both statistics and the comparisons between leagues, but I think I understand you point your trying to make.

First off, NFL, NBA and MLB all play a wide number of games per team.
NFL:16
NBA: 82
MLB: Over 150

NASL: 9
(Note: Not sure about MLB numbers, but I know they play a crap load of games)
Now look at the graphs again, there is a trend when looking at the standard deviations, NASL has the largest, followed by NFL and MLB with the best. (Statistically, MLB's larger sample size is going to produce a closer to normal distribution.) Simply put, more games causes win percentages to go up. The graphs also show NFL and NASL to be the best comparisons.

Second, every single game of these leagues is broadcast. In the case of the MLB and NBA especially, fans including me only watch their team and the most hyped games. Now, in terms of the NASL, because there are so many games in one week, I only watch my player every week( through VODs) and my opinion on what would be the most interesting match of the week. With this in mind, I dont think you have to stop broadcasting every game, the Brat_OK fans will VOD him all the time and the Liquid_Tyler fans will do the same. Everyone is going to watch Idra vs Boxer. All the games being cast doesn't mean all the games are watched.

An interesting solution may be posting some games casted but not to the free daily audience and only through access with VODs. Although some fans may see it as a method of forcing us to buy the 25$ package.

Now the point about average game quality. Personally, I dont think this can be avoided by the league at all. Some truley terrible NFL, NBA and MLB games are played, broadcasted and ridiculed. Detroit Lions anyone? New York Nicks? Houston Astros? (Note: not necessarily in last years season) Even the GSL has as Tastosis points out, some hilariously bad play. Overall, this is part of the league and only time can weed out the poor games/players. Truely, aslong as the players give it their all, poor games never arise. And for the NASL's first season, for the amount of games played, there was a very low number of bad games.



Finally, although some players had poor win percentages, I belive they produced an equal amount of entertainment as any other player in the league. Catz and Grubby come to mind here. Their games are much more fun to watch even against the best of players, and much more entertaining than the worst of the NFL against the best.
djsm0ke
Profile Joined April 2011
United States16 Posts
June 16 2011 23:46 GMT
#91
On June 17 2011 03:44 Mojitsu wrote:
NASL can fcuk off for 360p only for non subscribers

User was warned for this post



Even though this point could been said in a more elegant way, I do agree that there's a certain level of greed in a lot of certain SC2 leagues. NASL is a good example where it seems like they are so eager to monetize through their stream restrictions and store that they forget the most important thing for fans is the quality of the games and commentaries. For a league that's running for the first time and to expect people to pay 25$ for where the quality of the matches is no where close to the ones seen in the GSL (and that's only 10$) it seems a little absurd.

I'm more inclined to pay for GSL not only for the quality matches but also for the other content that works together to make the show more dynamic and interesting. An example of that would be, the K-pop that starts before the stream, all the extra specials they do out side of the game like with the coach matches, specials episodes etc. More importantly, GSL is played over LAN while NASL is still just an online tourny.

NASL needs to step up with their production value to really distinguish themselves among the many other online tournaments. They can start by offering higher quality streams (480p is pretty standard and should definitely be free) and getting better commentators, iNcontrol is great but Gretorp is just Mr.Obvious. Quality stream, commentating, matches is what will establish a solid fan base for the league but greed will definitely make you lose.
Nethermind
Profile Joined April 2011
New Zealand445 Posts
June 16 2011 23:48 GMT
#92
So much datas!!!!!

Thanks all contributors
Kaz.
Profile Joined October 2010
United States69 Posts
June 17 2011 16:41 GMT
#93
I think season 1 of the NASL went off fairly well, although some of complaints about game quality, player quality, and formatting are certainly justified.

I agree that broadcasting all games played is just way too much. Often times there were only 1-2 matches on a given evening that would be worth watching, but instead there was a huge amorphous block of time that the games were shown in, making it difficult to sit through other matches in anticipation of the ones I was waiting for. Often times I just gave up and went off to other things. If there was some sort of highlighted match feature, or at least a marquee matchup show like other professional sports leagues do, it would be better for the viewing public.

The end of the regular season is where the wheels came off, to be sure. I really would have liked the casters to be able to tell me what was on the line for the players, but in most cases they were confused and had to be corrected off air. I believe that the organizational issues can be fixed if the league takes the time this off season to say, here's where we messed up, lets fix it for next season.

Being the first season in a relatively experimental market (NA esports leagues), I believe the NASL guys laid a good foundation with good production, great casters, and quality games on a regular basis, and I'm personally very excited to see how they improve on this in future seasons.
Attitude is forever
Attackspeed
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1 Post
June 17 2011 19:19 GMT
#94
why did the free 360p stream cut off mid game and not come back? arghh
DDie
Profile Joined April 2010
Brazil2369 Posts
June 17 2011 23:23 GMT
#95
On June 17 2011 08:46 djsm0ke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 17 2011 03:44 Mojitsu wrote:
NASL can fcuk off for 360p only for non subscribers

User was warned for this post



Even though this point could been said in a more elegant way, I do agree that there's a certain level of greed in a lot of certain SC2 leagues. NASL is a good example where it seems like they are so eager to monetize through their stream restrictions and store that they forget the most important thing for fans is the quality of the games and commentaries. For a league that's running for the first time and to expect people to pay 25$ for where the quality of the matches is no where close to the ones seen in the GSL (and that's only 10$) it seems a little absurd.

I'm more inclined to pay for GSL not only for the quality matches but also for the other content that works together to make the show more dynamic and interesting. An example of that would be, the K-pop that starts before the stream, all the extra specials they do out side of the game like with the coach matches, specials episodes etc. More importantly, GSL is played over LAN while NASL is still just an online tourny.

NASL needs to step up with their production value to really distinguish themselves among the many other online tournaments. They can start by offering higher quality streams (480p is pretty standard and should definitely be free) and getting better commentators, iNcontrol is great but Gretorp is just Mr.Obvious. Quality stream, commentating, matches is what will establish a solid fan base for the league but greed will definitely make you lose.



Agreed, i subscribed for the NASL and there is no way in hell i will do so again, ever. Terrible stream quality, meeeh commentators, meeh games. I'm actually impressed that now non subscribers can only watch 360p, that's laughable, really.
''Television! Teacher, mother, secret lover.''
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
June 18 2011 04:36 GMT
#96
From what I heard, free 480p was dropped to help reduce server load from expected increase of viewership in the post-season.
Thank God and gunrun.
bakesale
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States187 Posts
June 18 2011 06:29 GMT
#97
On June 16 2011 20:51 legaton wrote:
To be fair, i think the invite system the NASL used was not so bad and they were able to scout some real talent in the weak North-American scene like Vibe and DDE.I remember well i was one of the numerous people laughing hard at these "nobodies" and asking for better players, but they show they deserved the spot in the NASL. They will probably become even better. Therefore, it was a good call from the NASL and i was deeply wrong at those times.
[...]

I think the invite system was just for season 1 since it was new and unknown. As an established league, I think the open slots in season 2 will be determined by qualifiers. I may be wrong on both of those points, but I am pretty sure that's how Geoff has explained it on SotG.
epikAnglory
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1120 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 09:21:52
June 19 2011 09:21 GMT
#98
On June 16 2011 20:48 PapaHades wrote:
[image loading]

User was temp banned for this post.

I have to admit even though this is completely off topic and inappropriate it did kind of lighten up the mood reading through the comment pages. Not that I have never seen the picture, it is just that I never knew someone either had the guts or was just that trollish (or dumb in a harsh way) to post that here lol.
710+ Posts with a Probe Icon =D
Hammurabio
Profile Joined August 2010
152 Posts
June 19 2011 14:25 GMT
#99
On June 18 2011 13:36 Primadog wrote:
From what I heard, free 480p was dropped to help reduce server load from expected increase of viewership in the post-season.


Looks like that theory was debunked with 60,000+ viewers watching the 720p DH streams. IMO, this was just a pure money-grab.
DoomsVille
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada4885 Posts
June 22 2011 07:01 GMT
#100
On the discussion of NFL/NBA etc. compared to NASL, I'd just like to point out that the major sports aren't broadcast nationally because of a lack of interest... not because the league itself doesn't want to avoid showcasing poor games.

No major network is going to show a game nationally between the Toronto Raptors and Denver nobody gives a crap. It has nothing to do with the quality of the games and everything to do with the demand for them. If it were up to the NBA, every single game would be broadcast nationally. But alas, major networks won't do that.

Although I do agree that NASL would do well to cut out the garbage matches. Sometimes one or both players just play so poorly that the games aren't entertaining. Or the matches end before anything happens. Things happen and I would love it if they cut out one BO3 every week. I don't really enjoy watching NASL for 4 hours when a bunch of the matches suck. I'd totally them cutting out one MU every week and then simply releasing the replays.

On June 19 2011 23:25 Hammurabio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2011 13:36 Primadog wrote:
From what I heard, free 480p was dropped to help reduce server load from expected increase of viewership in the post-season.


Looks like that theory was debunked with 60,000+ viewers watching the 720p DH streams. IMO, this was just a pure money-grab.

I lagged hard during dreamhack and had to watch it on 480p (as did many others). And no it wasn't my internet connection. I have never had problems watching streams on the highest quality. And for NASL, that simply can't happen. I've paid 25 bucks for NASL so if it lags when I try to watch it in HQ, I'm going to be angry. Dreamhack doesn't have that problem because it was all free (and so no one can complain when HQ lags for them).

I don't know why people fail to realize that NASL has no major sponsors so they have to make money by monetizing the stream as much as possible (commercials + subscriptions). If they don't this league will never last so I have no problem with it.

Also, people need to stop comparing NASL to GSL. GSL has a ton of major sponsors and are also approaching their 8th iteration (or something like that). GSL also had their fair share of problems with casters, stream lag, low stream quality and low quality games (Season 1 and 2 were a cornucopia of awful games). It takes time for the kinks to be worked out.
rareh
Profile Joined May 2011
Portugal298 Posts
July 06 2011 20:46 GMT
#101
Is OP a troll ?
I mean ye every league has its own problems, TSL had a bunch, hmm strange why i never saw a article bashing it ?
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