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On April 15 2011 09:26 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 08:43 Taekwon wrote:
Also: there's a typo in the wrap up of KT vs T1
"Bisu scanned, took those out..."
should be flash Ehehe thanks to you and everyone else for pointing that one out. Fixed ^^ Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 08:43 rift wrote:
But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics. I don’t think that’s a mystery to anyone.
lol?
"When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... that really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?" - YellOw Flash has impeccable game sense. I don't disagree with that. His knowledge of timings and his insight is really something to behold. It's just that his mechanics aren't top tier like Bisu or Jaedong. That's not to say that he's bad, but when matched up against something with the multi-tasking of Bisu, I think it's pretty clear that Flash definitely has some deficiencies.
Honestly I don`t know where this crazy notion that Flashs mechanics are NOT among the best in the world comes from. His mechanics for sure rivals that of Jaedong and Bisu, and is superior to probably every Terran. Hes got hands down the best macro of any Terran player, best multitasking and the best big army control by far, the only place people are similar and maybe a few players could be even better is at controlling small groups of vultures or wraiths and those kind of things. You don`t turn into a bw god like flash by simply thinking better than your opponents, you do it by having the best mechanics AND the greater timings\thinking etc.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Security Alert.........Give this guy a free beer or two lol, so good.
Thanks for the write-up.
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If only Flash had reverse all-killed. Oh well, Bisu played well to say the least.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On April 15 2011 19:21 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 09:26 Mystlord wrote:On April 15 2011 08:43 Taekwon wrote:
Also: there's a typo in the wrap up of KT vs T1
"Bisu scanned, took those out..."
should be flash Ehehe thanks to you and everyone else for pointing that one out. Fixed ^^ On April 15 2011 08:43 rift wrote:
But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics. I don’t think that’s a mystery to anyone.
lol?
"When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... that really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?" - YellOw Flash has impeccable game sense. I don't disagree with that. His knowledge of timings and his insight is really something to behold. It's just that his mechanics aren't top tier like Bisu or Jaedong. That's not to say that he's bad, but when matched up against something with the multi-tasking of Bisu, I think it's pretty clear that Flash definitely has some deficiencies. Honestly I don`t know where this crazy notion that Flashs mechanics are NOT among the best in the world comes from. His mechanics for sure rivals that of Jaedong and Bisu, and is superior to probably every Terran. Hes got hands down the best macro of any Terran player, best multitasking and the best big army control by far, the only place people are similar and maybe a few players could be even better is at controlling small groups of vultures or wraiths and those kind of things. You don`t turn into a bw god like flash by simply thinking better than your opponents, you do it by having the best mechanics AND the greater timings\thinking etc.
I disagree with the notion that Flash's mechanics are the best out of the Terrans. Baby, Leta, and Light (when he's playing ZvZ at least) have better mechanics than him. As to saying that Flash's mechanics rivals Bisu... Well of that, at the very least, I'm sure you're wrong. Bisu's multi-tasking is just absolutely unreal compared to most other players. But his game sense is... Lacking to say the least.
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Someone needs to make some kind of clear definition for:
Mechanics
Multitasking
Micro
Macro
APM
or else the arguing will all be semantic nonsense.
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Holy moley what a great writeup. So much content! I especially liked the TL security warnings, and yes, ACE fans are happy that SWL is finally over 
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Lovely article! <3 you writers!
On April 15 2011 21:00 Crisium wrote:
Someone needs to make some kind of clear definition for:
Mechanics
Multitasking
Micro
Macro
APM
or else the arguing will all be semantic nonsense.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mechanics
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On April 15 2011 20:53 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:21 Oystein wrote:On April 15 2011 09:26 Mystlord wrote:On April 15 2011 08:43 Taekwon wrote:
Also: there's a typo in the wrap up of KT vs T1
"Bisu scanned, took those out..."
should be flash Ehehe thanks to you and everyone else for pointing that one out. Fixed ^^ On April 15 2011 08:43 rift wrote:
But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics. I don’t think that’s a mystery to anyone.
lol?
"When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... that really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?" - YellOw Flash has impeccable game sense. I don't disagree with that. His knowledge of timings and his insight is really something to behold. It's just that his mechanics aren't top tier like Bisu or Jaedong. That's not to say that he's bad, but when matched up against something with the multi-tasking of Bisu, I think it's pretty clear that Flash definitely has some deficiencies. Honestly I don`t know where this crazy notion that Flashs mechanics are NOT among the best in the world comes from. His mechanics for sure rivals that of Jaedong and Bisu, and is superior to probably every Terran. Hes got hands down the best macro of any Terran player, best multitasking and the best big army control by far, the only place people are similar and maybe a few players could be even better is at controlling small groups of vultures or wraiths and those kind of things. You don`t turn into a bw god like flash by simply thinking better than your opponents, you do it by having the best mechanics AND the greater timings\thinking etc. I disagree with the notion that Flash's mechanics are the best out of the Terrans. Baby, Leta, and Light (when he's playing ZvZ at least) have better mechanics than him. As to saying that Flash's mechanics rivals Bisu... Well of that, at the very least, I'm sure you're wrong. Bisu's multi-tasking is just absolutely unreal compared to most other players. But his game sense is... Lacking to say the least.
I agree Flash has sick mechanics, and there is a myth he doesn;t and just outthinks his opponent. He doesn't suffer from 1a syndrome - for his TvP tank pushes, he is never caught off guard unlike lesser players like fantasy/leta/baby. His tank spread is perfect, whereas the players you mention clump all their tanks together. Flash marine control is also the best in the business in TvZ, with him often microing 2 groups of marine at once. And Flash macro is undisputed best among terrans. So Flash has the best macro, and fantastic micro. While it can be argued Flash doesn't have the multitask of Bisu/Jaedong, he is certainly no slouch in this area. In his TvTs, Flash is always able to respond to multiple pronged attacks. It's just that Bisu/Jaedong are just ungodly multitaskers, and Flash's wrists are hurting, so he is trying to cut down on multitasking.
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5003 Posts
On April 15 2011 23:39 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 20:53 Mystlord wrote:On April 15 2011 19:21 Oystein wrote:On April 15 2011 09:26 Mystlord wrote:On April 15 2011 08:43 Taekwon wrote:
Also: there's a typo in the wrap up of KT vs T1
"Bisu scanned, took those out..."
should be flash Ehehe thanks to you and everyone else for pointing that one out. Fixed ^^ On April 15 2011 08:43 rift wrote:
But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics. I don’t think that’s a mystery to anyone.
lol?
"When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... that really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?" - YellOw Flash has impeccable game sense. I don't disagree with that. His knowledge of timings and his insight is really something to behold. It's just that his mechanics aren't top tier like Bisu or Jaedong. That's not to say that he's bad, but when matched up against something with the multi-tasking of Bisu, I think it's pretty clear that Flash definitely has some deficiencies. Honestly I don`t know where this crazy notion that Flashs mechanics are NOT among the best in the world comes from. His mechanics for sure rivals that of Jaedong and Bisu, and is superior to probably every Terran. Hes got hands down the best macro of any Terran player, best multitasking and the best big army control by far, the only place people are similar and maybe a few players could be even better is at controlling small groups of vultures or wraiths and those kind of things. You don`t turn into a bw god like flash by simply thinking better than your opponents, you do it by having the best mechanics AND the greater timings\thinking etc. I disagree with the notion that Flash's mechanics are the best out of the Terrans. Baby, Leta, and Light (when he's playing ZvZ at least) have better mechanics than him. As to saying that Flash's mechanics rivals Bisu... Well of that, at the very least, I'm sure you're wrong. Bisu's multi-tasking is just absolutely unreal compared to most other players. But his game sense is... Lacking to say the least. I agree Flash has sick mechanics, and there is a myth he doesn;t and just outthinks his opponent. He doesn't suffer from 1a syndrome - for his TvP tank pushes, he is never caught off guard unlike lesser players like fantasy/leta/baby. His tank spread is perfect, whereas the players you mention clump all their tanks together. Flash marine control is also the best in the business in TvZ, with him often microing 2 groups of marine at once. And Flash macro is undisputed best among terrans. So Flash has the best macro, and fantastic micro. While it can be argued Flash doesn't have the multitask of Bisu/Jaedong, he is certainly no slouch in this area. In his TvTs, Flash is always able to respond to multiple pronged attacks. It's just that Bisu/Jaedong are just ungodly multitaskers, and Flash's wrists are hurting, so he is trying to cut down on multitasking.
Part of not being caught off guard has to do with game sense. If you know the paths and you fully expect it of course you will be able to react better to it. The problem with Terrans like Baby is that while Baby probably has the best multitasking out of any progamer, Baby doesn't have the game sense to put together a solid game plan. He just overwhelms with multitasking, something even Flash has trouble against in many kind of games.
Game sense is correlated with reaction time, but the point is that Flash will never have the level of Baby's multitasking that is required to just overwhelm players with APM constraints.
I don't know if Flash's macro is undisputed best though, I think most Terrans have pretty similar macro. Don't see what makes Flash stand out so much in terms of Macro.
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Pardon me but I can help but notice the ninja fanboyism here. Let's give credit where it is due - BISU outplayed and outmicroed flash hands down, built up on that early advantage with more awesome micro (vulture denial) and clutch s-class play (dt to drain scan to double expo), managed well enough to negate inherent disadvantages of his race (tell me, which race can push out off 2 base an oponent working on 4 base???), and controlled well to deliver the final blow.
All im saying is, no excuses please.
But what about the game itself? If you ask me, it was the golden opportunity that fell right into Bisu’s lap. The stars aligned and the best conditions possible for Bisu’s strategy fell into place. Now first, is a forward Gateway with Zealot pressure a hard counter to Rax Expand? No. But it is a soft counter in so far as Terran will have difficulty holding any sort of aggressive play off. So already, Flash was at a disadvantage.
But most importantly, Flash did not scout Bisu at all during the entire game. Not even with an SCV. This had two consequences. First, Flash didn’t see Bisu’s first Zealot heading that way. This wasn’t that big of a deal, but Flash didn’t see that Bisu had a forward Gateway.
He didn’t know that Zealots arrive a few seconds faster, which is extremely crucial in the early game. Secondly, Flash was completely in the dark as to what Bisu’s follow up plan was. Most importantly, he did not see that Bisu got his natural gas relatively early, before his first Dragoon. This indicates a fast tech as opposed to a quick 3rd base.
Still, it is a 3 player map. so after your initial scout (fail or not) you know exactly where your opponent is. The real thing that prevented any scout on Bisu's base was Bisu himself: vulture denial and (again) scan drain. Luck had no part in it. And the forward Gateway is an exaggerated advantage. All the time zealots came in streams of 1, so flash know exactly it was not 2 Gate pressure. All the rest, early 2nd gas before goon and double expand were DIRECT result of how Bisu outplayed flash, no other reason.
So yes, I would pin a large part of Flash’s loss on his complete lack of an SCV scout into Bisu’s main. But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics. I don’t think that’s a mystery to anyone. Bisu’s aggressive play hit Flash where it hurts. Right in the wrists.
His wrist? Seriously! I'll tell you we can meet on the street and I can tell you everything about Jaedong's epicness, fantasy raping, everything ONE-TRUE-GODNESS (partly in jest, but totally in unabashed fanboyism), but I'll be the first to tell you that flash simply raped him hard in the last few finals. No problem with that. But blaming flash loss on his WRIST? Me = Speechless.
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Articles are always so much better when SKT1 wins. And especially when Bisu wins.
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On April 15 2011 20:53 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 19:21 Oystein wrote:On April 15 2011 09:26 Mystlord wrote:On April 15 2011 08:43 Taekwon wrote:
Also: there's a typo in the wrap up of KT vs T1
"Bisu scanned, took those out..."
should be flash Ehehe thanks to you and everyone else for pointing that one out. Fixed ^^ On April 15 2011 08:43 rift wrote:
But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics. I don’t think that’s a mystery to anyone.
lol?
"When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing. I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing. Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more... that really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?" - YellOw Flash has impeccable game sense. I don't disagree with that. His knowledge of timings and his insight is really something to behold. It's just that his mechanics aren't top tier like Bisu or Jaedong. That's not to say that he's bad, but when matched up against something with the multi-tasking of Bisu, I think it's pretty clear that Flash definitely has some deficiencies. Honestly I don`t know where this crazy notion that Flashs mechanics are NOT among the best in the world comes from. His mechanics for sure rivals that of Jaedong and Bisu, and is superior to probably every Terran. Hes got hands down the best macro of any Terran player, best multitasking and the best big army control by far, the only place people are similar and maybe a few players could be even better is at controlling small groups of vultures or wraiths and those kind of things. You don`t turn into a bw god like flash by simply thinking better than your opponents, you do it by having the best mechanics AND the greater timings\thinking etc. I disagree with the notion that Flash's mechanics are the best out of the Terrans. Baby, Leta, and Light (when he's playing ZvZ at least) have better mechanics than him. As to saying that Flash's mechanics rivals Bisu... Well of that, at the very least, I'm sure you're wrong. Bisu's multi-tasking is just absolutely unreal compared to most other players. But his game sense is... Lacking to say the least.
I think you mistake multitasking for equaling mechanics when its as much about macro and micro, and regardless Flash multitasking is superb, maybe not quite as good as Bisu but hes not far behind (This is coming from the biggest Bisu fan there is). Take a look at those games where he suddenly pushes out and within a minute demolishes bases at 5 different locations while microing and macroing perfectly. Or the TvZ games where he drops 2-3 different locations while roaming around with his main army. Those things are the definition of good multitasking. As someone else mentioned its not a coincidence that Flashs tanks are always spread out nicely, that shit requires micro and multitasking to pull off not just gamesense. Also while its true there are Terrans who have similar micro, macro or multitasking they usually lack in another area, for example having a similar good macro, but worse micro so overall there is no Terran with better mechanics than Flash.
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BIIIIISUUUUU! ^_*
Nice writeup, thanks!
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This was a great write up. I especially liked the analysis by Mystlord.
But on a more direct level, Flash doesn’t have the greatest of mechanics.
I had to read this sentence literally three times before I trusted my eyes.
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Bisu vs Flash, flash bad multitasking ? I've seen flash drop 5 places at once murdering people, so don't blame it on the mechanics, just on the scouting.
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how can you compare flash vs bisu multitasking anyway? c'mon.. y'all know bisu is playing the easy-race , just saying!
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Great article! You guys rock.
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EPT
