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[OSL] 2010 Bacchus OSL - RO36 Weeks 3 & 4

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[OSL] 2010 Bacchus OSL - RO36 Weeks 3 & 4

Text byWaxangel
Graphics bySilverskY
December 5th, 2010 13:35 GMT
[image loading]
Banner by SilverskY

by Milkis and Waxangel

This week's content
brought to you by Snorlax.

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Results and Battle Reports

Week in Review and Awards

The Bisumancer



Just like Kanye West, Blizzard, or that cute guy who's playing hard to get, the TeamLiquid OSL team is fashionably late. Now if only we could make up for it with quality...

We bring you two weeks of OSL coverage, bringing the round of 36 to a close. Our special feature this week - accompanying our usual battle reports and weekly review - is a glorious Bisu bash by Milkis. The cynical Milkis must often be given multiple idea pitches to write an article, so rarely does he get excited. But as we know too well, cutting pro-gamers down is the true fuel for an e-Sports writer's fire.

Now I've got to ask you guys to refrain from your usual habits of taking your laptops to the bathroom and reading our reports on the can, because we're going to come out with the group selection report in short order! So set some time aside and give this week's report a careful read, and you'll stay up to speed.

Round of 36, Weeks Three and Four

Quick Results


+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
Group G: 11/17/10 - 19:30 KST and 11/19/10 - 19:30 KST
(P)Snow
(Z)Soulkey
      (T)HiyA ►Advances to Round of 16

+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
[VOD] (P)Snow < Pathfinder > (Z)Soulkey
[VOD] (P)Snow < Gladiator > (Z)Soulkey

[VOD] (T)HiyA < Pathfinder > (Z)Soulkey
[VOD] (T)HiyA < Gladiator > (Z)Soulkey

Group H: 11/17/10 - 19:30 KST and 11/19/10 - 19:30 KST
(Z)great
(P)Paralyze ►Advances to Round of 16
      (T)Leta

+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
[VOD] (Z)great < Pathfinder > (P)Paralyze
[VOD] (Z)great < Gladiator > (P)Paralyze

[VOD] (T)Leta < Pathfinder > (P)Paralyze
[VOD] (T)Leta < Gladiator > (P)Paralyze

Group I: 11/17/10 - 19:30 KST and 11/19/10 - 19:30 KST
(P)Movie
(T)FrOzen
      (Z)Hyuk ►Advances to Round of 16

+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
[VOD] (P)Movie < Pathfinder > (T)FrOzen
[VOD] (P)Movie < Gladiator > (T)FrOzen
[VOD] (P)Movie < Aztec > (T)FrOzen

[VOD] (Z)Hyuk < Pathfinder > (P)Movie
[VOD] (Z)Hyuk < Gladiator > (P)Movie
[VOD] (Z)Hyuk < Aztec> (P)Movie

Group J: 11/24/10 - 19:30 KST and 11/26/10 - 19:30 KST
(Z)Kwanro
(P)Tempest
      (Z)Hydra ►Advances to Round of 16

+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
[VOD] (Z)Kwanro < Pathfinder > (P)Tempest
[VOD] (Z)Kwanro < Gladiator > (P)Tempest
[VOD] (Z)Kwanro < Aztec > (P)Tempest

[VOD] (Z)Hydra < Pathfinder > (Z)Kwanro
[VOD] (Z)Hydra < Gladiator > (Z)Kwanro
[VOD] (Z)Hydra < Aztec > (Z)Kwanro

Group K: 11/24/10 - 19:30 KST and 11/26/10 - 19:30 KST
(P)Stats
(Z)HoGiL ►Advances to Round of 16
      (Z)ZerO

+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
[VOD] (P)Stats < Pathfinder > (Z)HoGiL
[VOD] (P)Stats < Gladiator > (Z)HoGiL
[VOD] (P)Stats < Aztec > (Z)HoGiL

[VOD] (Z)ZerO < Pathfinder > (Z)HoGiL
[VOD] (Z)ZerO < Gladiator > (Z)HoGiL
[VOD] (Z)ZerO < Aztec > (Z)HoGiL (DRAW)
[VOD] (Z)ZerO < Aztec > (Z)HoGiL

Group L: 11/24/10 - 19:30 KST and 11/26/10 - 19:30 KST
(Z)Shine ►Advances to Round of 16
(T)Suny
      (P)Bisu

+ Show Spoiler [Results and VODs] +
[VOD] (Z)Shine < Pathfinder > (T)Suny
[VOD] (Z)Shine < Gladiator > (T)Suny

[VOD] (P)Bisu < Pathfinder > (Z)Shine
[VOD] (P)Bisu < Gladiator > (Z)Shine

- Thanks to flamewheel for formatting.


Battle Reports
Map Order: - Pathfinder - Gladiator - Aztec


Week Three - Day One

Group G: (P)Snow vs (Z)Neo.G_Soulkey

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Soulkey went for a mutalisk and scourge rush, while Snow skimped on corsairs and made only a single cannon in his main. Guess who won!

Match Rating: 1/10
Unbelievably poor preparation from Snow.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
After some new-school openings, Snow and Soulkey played some very old-school Starcraft in their game on Gladiator. And when I say Starcraft instead of Brood War, I mean literally.

Soulkey opened with the overpool three hatch, while Snow went for FE into a surprise three gate range dragoon rush. The dangers of this risky rush build was averted through excellent play from Soulkey, who sacrificed an overlord to scout Snow’s main just before his opponent’s attack timing. Upon realizing Snow’s plan, Soulkey easily countered by making a large amount of sunken colonies and speedlings to defend against the dragoons.

With the failure of his early gambit, Snow opted to play a near complete pre-Brood War style of Starcraft, going up to 6 gates and making purely ground units (there were a couple of dark templars in the mix, but they did not impact the game). Although lurkers would have easily nullified Snow’s army, Soulkey decided to play along and went for vanilla SC units as well, making just zerglings, sunken colonies, and mutalisks.

Now, there is a reason why harassment based strategies such as sair/DT or sair/reaver became standard in PvZ, and this game was very educational in that respect. With four bases and his land entrances protected by a billion sunken colonies, Soulkey’s reaction to a purely gateway based Protoss on two bases was rightfully “I don’t give a s***.” Even without lurkers, there was no way Snow could threaten Soulkey.

Snow paraded his large army around the map in a futile attempt to find a place to deploy his forces. It was more an exercise of habit than of actual effectiveness, as both players knew the only places Snow could attack were the two natural bases Soulkey held, which were covered with over 12 sunken colonies each. In the meanwhile, Soulkey simply had groups of cracklings and mutas go around the map, denying Snow any chance to take a third base. Thinking about it now, Snow may have done better to have played very defensively while taking more expansions than pretend to take map control with a lumbering protoss army against a mobile mutalisk and crackling composition. Eventually Snow took a mineral only base, which Soulkey could have cared less about. Without 3 gas, there was still no way Snow could hurt his Zerg opponent.

Finally, Snow decided to attack Soulkey head on in a final, frustrated attack which ended all too predictably. Snow’s force was devoured by the nightmarish zerg defenses, and Soulkey ended the game with guardians and cracklings.

[image loading]
I'm not even kidding when I say carriers would have been a better choice.


Match Rating: 5/10
I liked the game because it was an extreme demonstration of the necessity of harassment in PvZ, but otherwise there was not much to it.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Soulkey won 2-0.


Group H: (Z)great vs (P)Paralyze

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Great opened the game with one of the greediest Zerg builds ever seen on a land map, making just a handful of zerglings before pumping pure drones and massing hatcheries. Whether it was a skillful read of his opponent or just a show of overall confidence, he did not suffer for taking such an economic risk as his rookie opponent went for a conservative stargate-robo build.

It looked like Great would be going into the mid-game with a significant advantage after getting away with all of his greed, but that was not to be the case. Though he had a great economy, Great squandered it by trying several wasteful drops. His plan appeared to be to hit Paralyze with a succession of drops in rapid order to keep Paralyze off balance, but in reality he just was just spoon feeding his units to Paralyze. Cannons, zealots, and reavers made quick work of every drop attempt Great tried, and he soon found his economic advantage neutralized by his constant troop losses.

After massing a sufficient amount of dragoons to support his zealot and reaver army, Paralyze finally moved out. Great’s prosperous opening allowed him to have enough troops to put up a small fight, but he had still wasted too many of his units in his earlier drops. Paralyze’s army was too powerful, and Great was forced to GG.

Match Rating: 2/10
Great gave away far too many units in pointless drops.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
The game opened in a fairly standard manner, with double expand Zerg going against an FE Protoss. Following the trend of other Zergs in OSL Ro36 games, Great decided to go for a mutalisk-scourge rush soon after spire in order to catch his opponent off guard.

Unlike other Protoss players in the Bacchus OSL so far, Paralyze moved out with his speed zealots before his opponent could strike with mutalisks. In past matches, Protoss players would send their zealots out to buy time after they had already taken damage from an initial mutalisk strike, which was always too little, too late. Instead, Paralyze kept Great’s air units from ever getting to his base with split attacks at both the Zerg natural and third expansion.

Paralyze was taking a risk by sending his entire ground force in a do or die attack, but Zerg’s tendency not to split mutalisks into two groups allowed the zealots to achieve a great deal of success. While the flyers took care of zealots at one location, the zealots at the other spot were wreaking havoc in the mineral line. Paralyze sent several gateway rounds of zealots at Great in this manner, and it was not a waste at all. The zealots tied up Great’s mutalisks and did so much drone damage that Paralyze was able to take a third base for free while getting archons and mass corsairs in the meanwhile.

By the time Great was done dealing with Paralyze’s zealots, he was in a very tough spot. Although he had transitioned into hydralisks in order to fight an incoming Protoss ground army, Paralyze had caught up enough economically to fight Great head to head with pure zealot-archon.

Great managed to stay in the game for a while, but it was a losing battle. His initial air control was soon wrested from him by corsairs, and he suffered a terrible blow at the hands of DTs. Heavily out-resourced by his Protoss opponent, it was not long until Great was forced to GG.

Match Rating: 4/10
Good zealot use by Paralyze, but you couldn’t help but think Great’s defense was too panicked. After the resource situation came to favor Protoss, the game was over.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Paralyze won 2-0.


Group I: (P)Movie vs (T)FrOzen

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Similar to other players before him, Movie treated Pathfinder like an island map. While Frozen was going for a standard 1 fact expansion, Movie skipped dragoons completely and went for a very fast four zealot drop.

Frozen had been building a starport that would have been ready against a reaver drop, but this four zealot rush caught him off guard. With only a single tank and marine to defend, the situation looked grim for Frozen. However, Movie’s prioritization of chasing tanks around helped minimize Frozen’s SCV damage.

Movie immediately followed up with a dragoon and reaver drop, which looked to be a possible game ender even though a wraith would be out soon. With only two tanks out, Frozen thanked his lucky stars when half of Movie’s scarabs turned out to be duds, particularly crucial ones targeting siege tanks. Although Frozen lost some SCVs, he managed to survive without taking any critical damage.

While Movie had profited from treating Pathfinder like an isle at the beginning of the game, he was about to be punished for the same philosophy. Having sent all of his troops on drop missions from which there was no return, there were no defenses left for Movie on the ground.

It only took a small counter attack of four tanks and a handful of marines to establish a deadly push right in front of Movie’s main, and the game ended as he failed to clear those units away.

Match Rating: 4/10
Cute strategy from Movie on Pathfinder into a really silly loss.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
The second game in the series began with standard play, seeing fast expansions go down on both sides (Movie did the recently revived gate, no-gas expansion). Besides a harassing zealot from Movie, the far positions kept things quiet for the early game.

Seeing that Movie was going for a very early third base, Frozen moved out with a small tank force to try and apply pressure. This turned out to be a terrible decision, however, as Movie had gone reaver tech to defend against such small scale pushes. Frozen’s poor spacing and lack of anti-air made it so that his siege tanks were practically free kills.

Movie capitalized on this early boon by reaver dropping Frozen’s main. While a few dud scarabs lowered the effectiveness of his attack yet again, he did manage to come away with a couple of tank kills.

As an experienced Protoss player, Movie knew very well the price Frozen would have to pay for losing so many of his early tanks. With his crucial reaver still alive, he went in for the kill with all of his ground units. Sure enough, Frozen did not have the critical mass of tanks needed to defend against such a protoss force.

Match Rating: 3/10
Poor tank preservation is one of the more boring ways a Terran can lose TvP.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
In a similar spirit to game two, Movie went for a quick three base strategy against a fast expanding Terran. Perhaps wary from his failings in the previous game, Frozen skipped any early pressure to go for a relatively quick third base himself.

Although this was the overall safer option, Movie found a way to seize the advantage anyway. A well timed attack with dragoons and zealots as Frozen moved out to take his third base caused heavy casualties on both sides, but as before, losing early game tanks was a tough blow for Terran to take.

Instead of an attack, Movie took advantage of Frozen temporary inability to mount a serious attack by expanding freely to a fourth, and later a fifth base. Without any meaningful dropship or vulture harass from Frozen, the economic advantage kicked in at full force for Movie.

Movie was population maxed very quickly, whereas Frozen was only sitting on around 130 worth of troops at that point. A massive ground force supported by arbiters was enough to end the game, even against a hardy Terran defense.

Match Rating: 4/10
There’s a nice thrill of watching Protoss waves crush Terran positions, but it was too one-sided as whole.





Week Three - Day Two

Group G: (Z)Neo.G_Soulkey vs (T)HiyA

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Soulkey became the first Zerg user to try the super optimized 12 pool mutalisk build on Pathfinder, but Hiya came prepared with a powerful counter-build. Two port has become the standard TvZ build on this map and Hiya opened with it as expected. However, instead of going directly for mass wraiths as expected, Hiya gave the build an unexpected and brilliant twist.

He showed Soulkey his very first wraith as he went to hunt overlords, to give off the impression that he was indeed going for a mass wraith build. Unbeknownst to Soulkey, he was actually going for a fast dropship from his second starport. Although he was only dropping two marines and two vultures, they posed a very strong threat to Soulkey who had skimped on land defenses from expecting the usual wraith build. The drop was timed well, coming a few vital seconds before mutalisks would hatch.

Soulkey had researched burrow very early, but he was so flustered by the early drop that he was not able to take full advantage of the upgrade. Not only did Hiya kill a fair amount drones, but Soulkey was also left with a trio of burrowed drones he completely forgot about after he was done cleaning up the drop.

Hiya was in the driver’s seat after that point. He left Soulkey with two hatcheries and just enough drones to pump straight mutalisks, but nothing else. Soulkey was forced to make only mutalisks for fear of losing straight up to Hiya’s following wraiths, but it left him all too vulnerable to Hiya’s M&M transition.

In the end, Soulkey was stuck with just mutalisks vs Hiya’s M&M&Wraith combination, which led to an easy GG.

Match Rating: 8/10
Personally, I’m in love with how brilliant Hiya’s build was. On a map where 2 port is considered the norm, Hiya executed the perfect fake. His two starport into fast drop looks just like a regular cloak wraith build until the very last second, which seduces Zerg into skimping on ground defenses. That aside, it was a total beatdown.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
In a startlingly one-sided game, Soulkey lost to Hiya’s first assault. The game played out in a very standard manner at first, with Terran FE vs Zerg three hatch.

However, Soulkey played poorly against Hiya’s early M&M pressure. In fact, he just lost straight up to Hiya’s first M&M attack that came just as mutalisks hatched. A few more sunken colonies or better mutalisk micro would have allowed Soulkey to survive, but neither were present for him at the time.

Match Rating: 1/10
Terrible.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Hiya won 2-0.


Group H: (P)Paralyze vs (T)Leta

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Pathfinder gave way to yet another unusual build order fight, as Paralyze put his fast DT drop against Leta’s fast starport.

It looked like the DT drop would hit before a wraith was out, but Leta showed he had the timings down. An early marine-tank-vulture push forced Paralyze to reserve one of his two DTs for defense, leaving just one to depart in the shuttle. At home, Leta already had turrets and mines down in preparation. Paralyze unluckily dropped his first DT straight onto two mines, and his shuttle was also soon destroyed by a wraith that just finished. With no port of entry for his DTs, it seemed that Paralyze’s plan had failed. Even so, Leta ended up losing most of his FD push force pointlessly, forces he would miss very soon.

There was only one more move left for Paralyze, and that was to enter through the front door. Paralyze was lucky on that day to find that Leta had three mines and no more to defend his ramp. A dragoon sacrificed itself to clear two mines, while a DT tanked the other to allow itself entry into Leta’s base.

While Leta had his resource collecting areas covered by turrets, he had not yet finished turrets at other key areas. What he could exploit, Paralyze exploited well with a stream of DTs to Leta’s base (and some sexy DT mine defusing). There were a few outlying buildings to pick off, as well as incautious vultures, but most importantly he forced Leta’s only factory to lift.

At this point, Paralyze became overzealous. Having forced Leta to build bunkers, rebuild and regorganize large portions of his base, he could have simply expanded and played with a modest advantage. Instead, he cut probe production completely to go for a bizarre 3 gate DT+speedzealot all-in move. This move backfired terribly; as Leta had reorganized his base into a tightly walled fortress with three factories producing by the time Paralyze had anything resembling a threatening force. Even though Paralyze actually took his natural before Leta took his own with scan, Leta still had a far superior economy due to the amount of SCVs he had made.

With the early game chaos over, the game began to resemble a normal PvT game, with the exception of Terran having a 15 SCV advantage. Leta proceded with the standard Terran slow-roll scheme, and the game began to look dimmer and dimmer for Paralyze.

In an unexpected turn of events, the SKT rookie showed more resolve than anyone expected. Given one opportunity to retake the game, he seized it with a vice like grip. Leta had grown comfortable with his economy and army, and moved out to take the easily defended position behind the Protoss natural. In a do or die battle, Paralyze engaged Leta as his first arbiter came along, getting off an excellent four tank stasis field which resulted in a resounding Protoss victory.

Leta tried to gather himself for a later attempt, but the tide had already turned. After a brief period of massing, Paralyze broke through the line protecting Leta’s natural and main to win the game.

Match Rating: 7/10
The early game was quite entertaining, average later on.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
Paralyze’s decision to go zealot FE heavily colored the flow and result of game two. By going for one-fact build without a wall, Leta opened himself up to be scouted by Paralyze’s zealot. At the progamer level a fast zealot against a wall-less terran will seldom do any damage against well microed marines, but still offers an interesting advantage in being a much hardier scout than a probe.

Paralyze’s zealot stuck around for a while, but Leta refused to build any important buildings while the zealot was still alive. Only after he had confirmed Paralzye’s expansion build with an SCV and chased out the scouting zealot did he make his move. It was to be a late second factory for an all-in push, a risky move considering that his deception had cost him precious time on the second factory. Still, with the late observer a zealot FE offers, Leta perceived a window of opportunity.

The critical attack consisted of eight marines, two tanks, and four vultures with spider mines. On the other end, Paralyze had only two zealots and five dragoon with range, while his third and fourth gateways and his observatory would not be active for fair amount of time.

Paralyze temporarily pulled the probes from his natural to prevent Leta from laying mines in too advance a position, before sending them back to harvesting. The keys to the battle were two critical mine drags from Paralyze. One dragoon was able to take out three vultures which had yet to deploy all their mines, which were the only advantage Leta had and his only way to press an attack. Having temporarily removed Leta’s ability to make forward progress, Paralyze used another mine drag to destroy one of Leta’s tanks and put him out of range of the probes at the natural. With a single tank slowly blasting away at the expansion nexus, there was a small respite as the two players considered their options.

Leta was now pressured to fortify his tenuous one tank contain as quickly as possible, because Paralyze’s 4 gates and robotics facility meant there would soon be a massive imbalance in production. He got three tanks and a bunker up in front of Paralyze’s natural, but it was to no avail.

Paralyze calmly waited for an observer, a shuttle, and then four zealots before busting out. The dragoons supported by zealot bombs were easily able to crush Leta’s containment (including a moment of skillful mine focus fire), and the Entus captain quickly conceded defeat.

Match Rating: 6/10
Paralyze defended with precision and patience against Leta’s impromptu rush, looking like a seasoned veteran in the process.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Paralyze won 2-0.


Group I: (P)Movie vs (Z)Hyuk

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
To start, Hyuk went for the predictable strategy of mutalisk centric zerg, while Movie went for an all around standard FE. There was little chance to see what Movie’s original plan (if any) was, as he played a reactionary Protoss style for most of the game.

Movie probed with zealots at the crucial timing where spire completes, forcing Hyuk to reveal his mutalisks. With this knowledge, Movie spared no expense making cannons in his bases, while adding as second starport and getting the +1 air attack upgrade.

Some initial probing by Hyuk revealed that his Protoss opponent was indeed prepared for his strategy. However, Hyuk decided that he had gone too far down the air based path to back out, and massed even more mutalisks and scourge to proceed with his original plan.

It turned out to be a terribly bad decision, as Movie’s corsairs and cannons were more than a match for Hyuk’s air force. Perhaps being so disgusted with his decision or execution, Hyuk GG’d out as soon as his muta-scourge force was decimated.

Match Rating: 2/10
Hyuk did poorly to keep on going for mutalisks after he had revealed himself to Movie, while Movie simply reacted to scouting. Very straight-forward.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
Hyuk went for a 5 hatch hydralisk rush and Movie didn’t have psionic storm in time. Or as we say in these parts… KWANROOO-, er, HYUKED.

Match Rating: 1/10
Lots of players getting caught with their pants down against random lair stage rushes by Zerg, be it mutas or hydralisks.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
The defining moment of the third and last game was an early speedling runby from Hyuk, who took advantage of a slight unit positioning error in Movie’s FE wall. Other players may have pressed the advantage and gone for the kill early, but Hyuk was content to play his hand very conservatively. By keeping Movie’s probes off mining and killing a modest amount, he was able to go into the mid-game with an equal population count as Protoss. While nothing to write home about, that is still a solid advantage in ZvP, and one Hyuk managed to sustain for most of the game.

Movie had a chance to mangle Hyuk with his first hanbang rush of archons, zealots, and high templars, but he mismicroed terribly by sending his foot soldiers to fight hydralisks far before the templars could arrive. Instead of a crushing victory for Protoss, the two sides scored a draw, and thus Hyuk retained the lead.

There was a glimmer of a turnaround when Hyuk donated a large part of his army to Movie in a poorly executed attempt to prevent a third Protoss base. However, it was only false hope, as Hyuk was well aware of the old adage: “When in doubt, cracklings.” With a decent lead and not much of an idea of how to finish, Hyuk just pumped massive amounts of cracklings. And as he hoped, Movie really had no answer for the ridiculously cost-efficient Zerg units.

Match Rating: 4/10
Kind of back and forth, but somehow not very exciting.




Week Four - Day One

Group J: (Z)Kwanro vs (P)Tempest

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Kwanro was the second SKT Zerg to benefit from the “whatever, cracklings” mentality. There were a few kinks in the game, but it boiled down to Tempest’s inability to win enough decisive victories against the unit worst nerfed in SC II.

The early game involved a 3 gate speed-zealot rush, Kwanro giving away 12 mutas to a spectacular storm shower, and dark archons maelstroming zealots. But none of this was of much consequence to the larger scope of the game as it flowed into 2 base protoss vs 3 base zerg with hive.

Tempest was the victor of one major battle that allowed him to take a third base but he would not hold it for long. With decent upgrades and a fair amount of hatcheries, Kwanro went for the simple strategy of making infinite cracklings while saving gas for ultralisks. The plan worked exactly as planned, with Tempest running around here and there to put out fires while his forces were whittled down in the process.

Kwanro soon revealed the large amount of Ultralisks he had saved up, and it was a short path to a GG.

Match Rating: 2/10
Only if you must see maelstrom being used, no matter how poorly.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
Though not being the greatest of hive stage players, surely game one proved Kwanro could still pull it off against an underdog like Tempest? Perhaps not, as game two left us wondering whether a leopard really can’t change his spots.

Kwanro went for an economy heavy strategy, trying to get by on minimal troop investment during the lair stage while securing four bases to play a strong hive game. And as one may expect, things did not go as planned.

There were far too few scourge and hydralisks to defend against Tempest’s corsairs, which went around shredding overlords like children through Christmas gift wrap. Without missing a beat, Tempest followed up with a two DT drop in Kwanro’s main. Had Tempest been more attentive, he could have done a huge amount of damage, but he had to be content with slicing a few drones and taking down the spire and pool.

Tempest appeared to stall for no reason after taking the advantage, but it soon came to light that he was preparing a crowd pleasing finale.

Kwanro’s bases were still tough to crack by land, as they had lurkers and sunken colonies to defend them. What better then, if you have many leftover corsairs from overlord hunting, than to upgrade disruption web?

Match Rating: 2/10
Kwanro playing hive is funny, d-web is funny, so why didn’t this game entertain me more?


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
When in doubt, Kwanrooooooooooollll!!!!

Kwanro went for a big 5 hatch hydralisk rush, and Tempest was not prepared for this most Kwanro-ish of Kwanro strategies.

Match Rating: 1/10
It’s a Kwan-roll, what more do you need to know?


Group K: (P)Stats vs (Z)HoGiL

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
After what seemed like unremarkable PvZ openings, Stats stepped ahead with a huge advantage in the air race, having three corsairs by the time Hogil’s spire was complete. Such a gap is rarely seen in the modern game, and it boded well for Stats as he picked up early overlord kills.

And still, Stats managed to lose to mutalisks.

Well, not directly. Hogil had the courage to go for muta-scourge, even though Stats had started making corsairs a long time ago, and had also committed to hydralisks for a fair amount of time.

Stats overreacted ridiculously to these late mutalisks, maybe because he was afraid he had stopped making corsairs for too long after his early air domination. Even though Hogil only had a handful of mutalisks in his stack, Stats must have thought it was a full control group or more as he sent his entire ground army on a suicidal counter-attack.

Hogil thanked Stats for discarding all of his zealots and counter attacked with mass hydralisks he had actually been focusing on. With nothing left to defend with, Stats GG’d.

Match Rating: 2/10
Decision making this bad is usually reserved for players named Killer.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
There was a double dose of trickery in play with Stats going for double gates at his natural while Hogil tried a sneaky overpool expansion to another base’s natural. There was an extra wrench in the works as both players tried to cut corners in scouting. Stats scouted only up to the naturals at each starting location and thus missed Hogil’s main completely, while Hogil didn’t bother to drone scout at all.

The two players did manage to figure out the actual situation fairly quickly, as Hogil saw two very early zealots with a slowly drifting overlord scout while some extra probe scouting alerted Stats to his oversight. In any case, forward gates against an overpool with hatcheries on opposite ends of the map was a tough order for Hogil. In addition, Stats’s gateway simcity at his natural had only a single zealot sized gap in it, which nullified the zergling backdoors which were the only real weakness of his build.

Hogil tried to keep both of his hatcheries instead of cancelling his expansion, to which Stats replied by blocking off Hogil’s main ramp with four zealots and mauling Hogil’s expansion hatchery with the rest. At the same time, Stats made the interesting choice of going for a nexus at his natural instead of playing a 1 base vs 1 base game against his impoverished opponent.

There was an ace in the hole for Hogil in a mad dash to spire amidst the initial melees. However, with just 1 hatchery and 1 gas there were severe limitations to what he could do. To give Hogil credit, he did a lot better with 1 hatch muta-ling than one might expect, but there was no realistic way to win. He nullified Stat’s main with mutas for a time, but Stat’s economy was much stronger even with just one base’s worth of mining. A zealot counter finished what remained of Hogil’s drones while dragoons and corsairs mopped up the mutalings at home. Seeing the hopelessness of the situation, Hogil GG’d.

Match Rating: 4/10
The botched scouting and the 1 hatch mutalisks gave this game some comedic value.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Stats came out with his third different build of the night in a +1 speedlot rush. Hogil was almost caught powering too hard, but he started producing hydralisks just in time. There was a close battle at Hogil’s third base, which ended in a successful defense for the Zerg player with heavy losses on both sides.

As in game one, Hogil went for an abrupt mutalisk tech switch. This time he actually had a dangerous number of mutalisks and caught Stats off-guard. Stats had to abandon his main for a while as he produced more corsairs and merged templars into archons.

However, Hogil predicted this move from Stats and transitioned back into mass hydralisks. Combined with mutalisks to remove high templars, Hogil’s hydralisk wave could not be stopped.

Match Rating: 2/10
The Zerg tech switch is a strong ZvP move for sure, but Stats looked unusually terrible against it.


Group L: (Z)Shine vs (T)Suny

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
When you consider that this map has been played as an isle by many players, it was surprising to see Shine open with a shamelessly greedy three hatch build and eat a not-particularly-fast one base M&M drop from Suny.

Suny had a very interesting strategy planned out, one might say it theoretically countered a three hatch muta build completely. Starting with a fast M&M drop, Suny’s plan was to follow that up with fast valkyries to kill off the mutalisks to come, and even build bunkers in the enemy main to create some sort of anti-air stronghold.

In practice, Suny couldn’t quite get things to work out the way he had imagined. Upon being dropped, Shine quickly ran all his drones to his natural where there was sunken cover, which left Suny’s 1 dropship load of troops with their pick of tech buildings to destroy. They took out the spire first, but not before Shine was able to start a decent amount of mutalisks hatching. The M&M had started firing on the spawning pool and a valkyrie had come in to cover them by the time the mutalisks hatched. The marines tried to run back to the newly completed bunker when the mutas swooped in, but over-stimming with just one medic allowed mutalisk bounce to finish off all the marines before they could reach the bunker (some serendipity here). Suny tried a follow-up drop of M&M, but Shine had already made a round of speedlings in anticipation.

All in all, Shine had come out quite well for having eaten a M&M drop flush in the face. He had preserved his drones while killing the Terran troops with very few losses of his own. The only real damage he had taken was losing his spire and spawning pool, but he was in no immediate danger of losing as two defeated drops had depleted Suny’s army for the time being.

The danger would be in the follow up hanbang force Suny was massing off one-base while Shine waited for his new pool and spire to finish. With three rax, a factory, and a staport, Suny put together a fearsome force of M&Ms, two tanks, and two valkyries very quickly.

The rush came at a very dangerous time for Shine, who was forced to defend with pure muta-ling. It was disappointing then, that Suny did not include any firebats in his army. Suny was more than ready to handle to Shine’s mutalisks, but did not having enough ground firepower to take on mass speedlings. With two or three firebats he could very well have won the game.

Suny tried to belated defend and expand afterwards, but this put Shine right back in his comfort zone. Mutalisks harassment kept Suny at bay until lurkers arrived, upon seeing which Suny quickly GG’d (a bit early).

Match Rating: 6/10
Suny's strategy was really well planned out, and it works out so brilliantly on paper. Suny's execution and moment by moment decision making were inferior to Shine's, so he couldn't utilize the strategy to its fullest. I'm looking forward to Flash's play on Pathfinder and what strategies he and the KT coaching staff can come up with.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
Though not the sharpest ZvT player around, going against Suny made Shine look downright clinical.

Suny opened with the normal rax FE, but played extremely passively to allow Shine an easy third base and a lot of drone production time. By the time Suny had his first big army ready to push out, Shine displayed what a free-powering Zerg could do by having a formidable lurker – ling – mutalisk army of his own at the ready.

While an epic battle would have pleased the fans, Shine had different ideas. Before Suny could depart too far from his base, he found his natural being swarmed by a giant Zerg force. In a moment of what could only be explained by a powerful case of TV nerves, Suny fled all of his SCVs to his main, where his attention lapsed for just long enough so that two lurkers could kill 90% of them. Suny’s micro continued to fail him, as many of his returning marines haplessly walked into lurker spines and to their doom.

Even though Suny managed to survive this attack, it was clear that the game was lost. Too many SCVs had perished, and there was no way Suny could have a serviceable army before Shine struck again. Suny decided not to drag the game out any further, and GG’d after a last ditch attack.

Match Rating: 1/10
One of the worst TvZ showings at the professional level we've seen in a very long time.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Shine won 2-0.





Week Four - Day Two

And after three weeks of bestowing his followers with the bounty of the Earth, the Brood War god became angered by their lack of piety. Wrathfully, he summoned a mighty scourge of Zerg versus Zerg to plague the people, so they may learn to become humble and give thanks.

Group J: (Z)Kwanro vs (Z)Hydra

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Hydra opened overpool against Kwanro’s 12 hatch exp, giving him the initiative early. Instead of early ling pressure, Hydra opted to use his faster pool for faster tech while expanding as well. Kwanro paraded some speedlings in front of Hydra’s natural as a threat, but did not commit to any attacks. And so, the game proceeded to spire stage without much incident.

With spire complete, Hydra’s mutaling caught Kwanro reacting slowly by taking out speedlings that had been in an advance position too long. This created a ground and air imbalance for Kwanro which Hydra exploited right away.

Attacking Kwanro’s main by air and natural by land forced Kwanro to choose a location to defend first. Kwanro opted to chase Hydra’s mutas around his main, which allowed Hydra’s lings to get several drone kills at Kwanro’s natural.

After restoring the barest semblance of order to his base, Kwanro immediately went on the counter-attack with his air units. After the usual ZvZ air fight where no one really knows what is going on until it’s over, Kwanro emerged victorious and received the GG from Hydra.

Match Rating: 2/10
Your typical ZvZ that builds up to a muta ball vs muta ball fight where you really don’t understand the reasons for victory.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
Both Kwanro and Hydra went for mirroring 11 pool expansion builds. The parity was broken early when Kwanro failed at a zergling run by into Hydra’s main. Hydra used his brief zergling advantage to attack Kwanro’s natural and kill a single drone, while making a couple more for himself.

These small advantages mounted into the spire stage, as Hydra had the economy to mine two gas and make continuous mutalisks from two hatcheries, while Kwanro was forced to take his 2nd gas later while making more scourge than were optimal. There were no twists, as Hydra used this advantage to win the air war straight up and take the game.

Match Rating: 4/10
That’s ZvZ for you. Get a three zergling advantage early on which snowballs into a significant mutalisk advantage ten minutes later. I dunno if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Kwanro opened 12 pool expand while Hydra went for the slightly advantageous 12 hatch expansion. Hydra massed zerglings and tried to time an attack just as Kwanro’s spire was about to finish, but just barely failed to break through. Kwanro tried to counter-attack with his own zerglings soon after, but he experienced some tough luck as Hydra had sent another zergling force by a different path. Hydra brought Kwanro’s spire HP down into the double digits before Kwanro’s lings returned to just barely save the day.

The fear of mutalisks flying in and sniping his spire kept Kwanro pinned inside his base until Hydra decided he had enough mutalisks to attack. Kwanro’s scourge heavy composition lost to Hydra’s higher ratio of mutalisks as usually happens in ZvZ, and it was GG.

Match Rating: 3/10
I dunno man, it’s ZvZ. For ZvZ, one to ten is probably too complex a scale considering the typical BW fan’s tastes. A system of “watch” and “don’t watch” might suffice for this matchup.


Group K: (Z)HoGiL vs (Z)ZerO

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +
Both playered mirrored 11 pool expansions to open the game. As with most mirror build ZvZ’s, there was an extended period of tense stalemate as the players waited for air units to become available.

Zero decided to initiate the usual just-before-spire zergling confrontation by attacking Hogil’s natural. Hogil made a terrible micro mistake in the battle, as a significant fraction of his zergling force stood idly aside before joining the fight. This let Zero win with a handful of zerglings leftover, which went on to cause significant drone damage.

Zero went for the kill with superior mutalisk numbers, but Hogil pulled off a good counter-attack with his own mutalisks to snipe some drones and force a temporary retreat. However, vacating his main left Hogil open to a counter-counter attack from Zero’s zerglings, which effectively bottomed out Hogil’s economy. Hogil’s GG was not long in coming.

Match Rating: 5/10
A little bit screwy with all the backdoor attacks, but at least I didn’t have to see a ling vs ling battle or muta vs muta battle where the cause of victory cannot be perceived by eye.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +
Zero opened 9 pool gas while Hogil went for an overpool expansion with late gas. Unlike other ZvZ build order matchups with a two drone difference seen so far that week (like 12 pool vs 12 hatch), this scenario differed in that the low drone count of the 9 pool player made it difficult for him to catch up in hatchery count in reasonable time.

Basically, Zero would have a 30 second window where his zerglings had speed and Hogil did not to win the game, or else he would be at a very large economic disadvantage. Zero did what he had to and committed to a fight as Hogil’s hatch was just about to finish morphing, but he lost the fight despite superior upgrades and positioning (ah, the mysteries of ZvZ).

Now the only advantage Zero had left was a significantly faster lair, but that would not be much of an advantage as Hogil would soon prove. Even though his opponent had a much quicker spire, Hogil’s superior drone count and two hatcheries meant that he could vastly outproduce Zero in zerglings. Hogil simply sent waves of speedlings on suicide drone raids, which whittled down Zero’s already faltering economy and forced all of his mutalisks to stay back on defense.

Though Hogil lost far more minerals worth of zerglings than Zero lost in drones, the end result was still eight drones left for Hogil and just two for Zero. It didn’t matter that Hogil hadn’t even started on his spire, having only spore colonies for air defense. With two drones left, Zero couldn’t even mine the gas to make his spire work.

Eventually Hogil got his spire up, and his 2 hatch 2 base easily prevailed over Zero’s one hatch one base.

Match Rating: 5/10
The game was a one-sided affair after Zero failed to exploit the brief thirty second window where his build could beat Hogil’s. However, Hogil’s hatchery advantage was not one that could be manifested immediately, and he showed good patience and decision making to make sure he won very slowly but very safely.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
The game began with mirroring 11 pool expansions. There wasn’t much action early on, with both players playing identically until the spires were nearly finished. Hogil decided to make extra lings with his larva before spire completed, hoping to get a temporary advantage while Zero was saving his larva for mutalisks. This strategy succeeded in letting Hogil break through Zero’s front line, but surprisingly he only got two drone kills with his leftover Zerglings. Considering how his zergling investment left him behind in mutalisk count, it was not a good trade at all. Furthermore, a small six zergling backdoor by Zero killed a pair of Hogil’s drones, giving Zero the lead in every department.

A heated air battle occurred, where both players broke off without any clear victor. However, Zero used the distraction to send another backdoor zergling raid. Zero cut down Hogil’s drone count to the point where he could not fully mine two gas, which would mean a huge air advantage for Zero in minutes.

With a clear lead in the air, Zero tried to force a conclusion to the game by attacking Hogil head on. Hogil’s fled from the hopeless battle, but to his luck, Zero gave chase instead of ransacking his main. Hogil milked this to the best of his abilities, luring Zero’s mutalisks away as far as possible while he build spore colonies in his main and backdoored Zero with zerglings.

Zero’s focus on hunting down Hogil’s mutalisks did give him an insurmountable air advantage, but it was still a poor decision. At least he could have spent some more time microing his drones at home, as he lost way more of his workers than he should have to Hogil’s backdoor. He was left in an extremely unbalanced situation where he had control of the air but only four drones.

Having made one poor decision already, Zero went on to make a chain of them. He tried to poke at Hogil’s main, to which Hogil calmly replied by backdooring all four remaining drones with his tattered air force. Zero didn’t realize he would be in a no-drone situation quickly enough, and he made quite an “OH F***” face when his cancelled egg only brought him to 33 minerals.

Zero needed to be very decisive right then, but the he panicked in his difficult and unusual situation. For the casual observer, Zero’s course of action was obvious. Zero had around a control group of mutalisks, while Hogil had 2 spore colonies defending his main. With all of Hogil’s mutalisks still away on their backdoor mission, Zero should have immediately focused down the spore colonies while he had the opportunity. That way he could kill all of Hogil’s drones as well and put himself in a superior position for an elimination fight.

Instead, Zero… stalled. It looked like he was just doing what came instinctively, and that was to pick away at the edges of Hogil’s base ala TvZ. Hogil’s mutalisks returned to defend, but he was forced to give up his spire and evolution chamber as they were built near the edges of the creep.

With no more obvious moves left for Zero, this was the situation we were left in: 12 mutalisks, 0 drones for Zero, 4 drones, 4 mutalisks, and 2 spore colonies for Hogil. Zero could only fly around the edges of Hogil’s base now, as every target would now be well defended. A suicide attack on Hogil’s drones was a possibility, but at best it would be a draw while failure could mean a loss.

Fortunately for Zero, the pressure got to Hogil as well. Forgetting he had only four drones and that Zerg buildings require drones to build, Hogil crippled his own economy by making an evolution chamber and a creep colony. Only after they were complete did he realize his mistake, making an “oh s***” face of his own.

Two drones would be much easier to snipe than four, and Hogil took them off mining and hid them in his defenses until he could decide on what to do. After a minute or so of deliberating, he tried to sneak one off to his natural hoping that Zero had forgotten about it, but Zero sensed it and flew off to kill the drone. The distraction gave him enough time to get a few rounds of minerals, bringing his count up to 54.

Hogil sat around for a few minutes, hiding his drone and thinking about whether he should make another drone or finish his third spore colony. However, he mulled around for too long, and the natural drift of air units began to move the overlords obscuring his drones. There was only a sliver of drone visible but Zero accurately sniped it and ran.

[image loading]
Exasperation. On a side note, Zero's been on a nice run of making cute faces during games. Remind me to elaborate some day.

A few minutes of stalling ensued as Hogil could not bring himself to make a move given his dilemma. Before too long, the KeSPA referee decided to intervene. Asked whether they would accept a draw, both players agreed that it was a stalemate.

Match Rating: 8/10
Unusual and tense situations made for great entertainment. There’s a decent amount of stalling however, although not as bad as some matches. You have been warned.


Re-game
Technically a rematch of game 3, the deciding game took place once more on Aztec.

If the last game was unusual, the rematch followed one of the typical ZvZ clichés. Hogil had a slight build order advantage with a 12 hatch expand versus Zero’s 12 pool, and he rode this to an easy victory after a muta battle.

Match Rating: 3/10
Surprisingly, the most “normal” ZvZ played in week four. Not a good thing.


Group L: (Z)Shine vs (P)Bisu

+ Show Spoiler [Game One] +

by Milkis

The game starts off with a standard 3 hatch versus a Forge FE. However, Shine fails to kill off Bisu's scouting Probe early, and his Zerglings spend a good minute or two chasing it around, while Bisu pokes at Shine's Natural with a Zealot. Shine, however, pulls of some nice micro and manages to kill the Zealot without losing a single drone.

Bisu responds with a +1 Speedlots, sending them towards Shine's 3rd, all the while managing to mass corsairs, taking over the air for a short while. Shine loses all his Drones at his third, but manages to hold on while Bisu prepares yet another push toward into Shine's third, which with the help of Dark Templars and the corsairs, he manages take down.

What Shine managed to do well during this time was to reduce the number of Corsairs with Scourge, suddenly reclaiming air superiority with his Mutalisks. The Mutalisks go around and take over Bisu's main, but Bisu responds by dropping Dark Templars and Zealots into Shine's main.

Shine loses his main, leaving him with only a natural. However, this puts him at an advantage against Bisu -- who could not mine from either of his bases due to Mutalisks harass, which leads to all of his Templars being sniped. This opens Bisu up to a Hydra Ling Bust by Shine, who does not miss this opening and bursts through Bisu's natural, and Bisu concedes.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Two] +

by Milkis

Both players decide to go for game ending builds this time around -- Bisu with Five Gateways, and Shine with a 3 hatch no Lair Hydrabust. Shine does a good job keeping Bisu away from this knowledge, going as far as cancelling a Hydralisk building at his third in the face of a scouting Probe.

However, where Bisu went wrong was when he did not build any more cannons past his first two he had built to deal with Shine's early Zerglings. Bisu, through his sheer number of gateways, manages to hold off the first wave of Hydralisks with his Dragoons.

Bisu finishes his +1, and Shine has trouble bursting through initially. Bisu moves his Dragoons out, which is quickly hit by Zerglings and Hydralisks. Bisu pulls probes to defend, effectively ending the game as Bisu can no longer support 5 gateways. Shine slowly bursts his way through with Zerglings and Hydras.

Bisu manages to hold from his main, and finally destroy Shine's army back at the cost of his Natural. Knowing that he needs to end this now, Bisu pushes with what remains of his army, but is quickly overrun by Shine's reinforcements. Bisu concedes.


+ Show Spoiler [Game Three] +
Shine won 2-0.



Week in Review: Awards Edition II


Grand Prize Winner: (Z)HoGiL

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While Paralyze deserved some consideration for this spot, I think it easily belongs to Hogil. It’s the first time in the OSL Round of 16 for both pros, but there’s no doubt as to who appreciates it more. This is the first time Paralyze has even been on TV, and he may not realize the gravity of his achievement. On the other hand Hogil has been hanging around in the lower stages of the individual leagues for years and he’s all too used to the bitter taste of defeat when it comes to making it any further.

Perseverance and determination over youth and luck.


Best Game: (Z)ZerO vs (Z)HoGiL – Game Three
I used to be quite the elitist about quality of play in rating games, the years have made me a more mellow man. Zero vs Hogil did not play the most technically proficient game, but they did put on a performance.

I can’t quite put my finger on the exact ingredients for a good game, but Zero and Hogil played a game with the right combination of tempo, action, unpredictability, tension, humor, and rarity to make it one of this season’s standout games.


The “You look just like your mother!” backhanded compliment of the week goes to: KeSPA
Kudos to the KeSPA referee for handling the Hogil vs Zero stalemate in a quick and professional manner. Congratulations KeSPA! Alongside the Estro disbandment draft, this is a nice string of events you’ve handled well without scarring the involved parties for life.


The “You look just like a baboon!” front-handed insult of the week goes to: (P)Bisu
Bisu, you’re not “back,” nor were you ever “back.” You’re decent player who had a statistically improbable streak during the first round of Proleague. The last time you were “back” was 18 months ago.

On a related note,


The “Paper beats rock???” award for most unintuitive counter: (Z)Shine > (P)Bisu
“Well, the paper can wrap up the rock…” makes about as much sense to me as “Well, Shine can just hydra all-in every game…”


The “Paralyze” award for best hair: (P)Paralyze
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There are unicorns that pale in beauty compared to Paralyze's Kor-fro.




The Yong-Taek Summoner

by Milkis

Bisu has two nicknames in Korea, both based on his Korean name, Kim Taek Yong. One is "Taek Shin", a nickname used when Bisu is performing really well, and the other is "Yong Taek", the nickname used when Bisu is well, far from his peak.

In the face of recent evidence, however, I've been been having a crisis of faith regarding the duality of Taek Shin/Yong Taek. My current theory is that it strictly depends on his opponents rather than Bisu himself. Sometimes Bisu's strategies work, and once he gets the momentum going, Bisu's insane multitasking and refined build orders kick in that allow him to take victory. On the other hand, once something goes wrong in Bisu's rhythm, he tends to fall apart, and at that point, depends on luck to win. Bisu seems to rely more on momentum rather than game sense, a style well suited to his skill set.

With respect to this theory, it's no surprise Shine was called the "The Yong-Taek Summoner" in his most recent OSL matches against Bisu. The two have a history in the OSL, beginning when Shine caused a huge upset by defeating Bisu and knocking him out of the EVER 2009 OSL in a series where the instinct of the Zerg was on full display -- slowly battering down the opponent with waves and waves of units.

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The announcers think Bisu is holding. Shine is going to prove them wrong in four seconds.



VODs: EVER 2009 OSL - Bacchus 2010 OSL

The first games of the series in both the EVER 2009 and Bacchus 2010 OSLs are worth noting. Both of these games involved Bisu with what seemed to be a hefty lead in the beginning, utilizing excellent harassment and dominating the air.

But the tempo Bisu created was quickly disrupted by waves of Zerg's units. In their very first match back in EVER 2009, it was waves and waves of Hydralisks that just eventually overwhlemed Bisu. Bisu tried his usual method of getting back in rhythm -- Dark Templar harass that slaughtered over 15 Drones and roaming Corsairs that slaughtered many many Overlords. Bisu looked like he would be able to hold, which would mean that Shine would be forced to concede. But as Shine continued to batter him with Hydralisks, Bisu's defense was not enough to stop Shine from doing what he wanted -- and eventually Bisu was overrun as his High Templars just did not have energy.

Meanwhile, despite common consensus that Bisu "had the game in the bag" in his most recent match against Shine on Pathfinder, you can see that Shine sowed the seeds of his eventual victory via his use of Scourge to take back the air from the Corsairs. This opened up Shine to abuse a sudden Mutalisk Switch, which quickly took over Bisu's main and stopped Bisu from mining at his Natural. Bisu in response dropped Dark Templars and Zealots at Shine's main, completely razing it, but Shine knew that if he had a chance if he continued to focus his attack. The accomplishments of his Mutalisks opened up the room for Hydralisks, which quickly forced a starved out Bisu to surrender.

Bisu's harass and skirmishing in both of these games were top notch, there's no doubt about that. In fact, most Zergs probably would have responded to Bisu's harassments in the way Bisu would have wanted -- they would have stopped attacking in order to deal with Bisu's harassments -- which is all Bisu would have needed to get back in his groove. Shine, however, sacrificed a limb so that he could land the finishing blow (as they say in Korean, "Surrender the flesh, cut the bone.") -- his goal, after all, is to win, regardless of how much damage his base takes during the game. Faced with such an extreme reaction, Bisu fell out of sync and began floundering around as he was forced to dance to his opponent's tune. Once his carefully prepared strategy started to fall apart, he was unable to improvise due to his poor game-sense. When this happens, he's "Yong Taek", but when he's in the groove, he is "Taek Shin". Rather than the two being mutually exclusive, they're simply descriptions of two ways Bisu's games can play out.

Bisu's two games against Shine highlights this aspect of his play. If Bisu's failure to deal with Shine's sudden Muta switch effectively wasn't evidence enough, his second game shows Bisu trying to out brute-force Shine with the help of five Gateways. Rather than playing it safe with respect to Shine's strategy, Bisu decided that he could push through 3 hatch Hydra with his Dragoons without the help of cannons -- a mistake that proved fatal for him this Starleague. His refusal to deviate from his original strategy, and his inability to come up with new strategies on the spot will definitely plague him as more and more players finish warming up and adjust to his playstyle.

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AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 05 2010 13:37 GMT
#2
Nice report ^^
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
December 05 2010 13:58 GMT
#3
Great article Milkis
KTY
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9489 Posts
December 05 2010 14:06 GMT
#4

The “Paralyze” award for best hair: (P)Paralyze

Even though Paralyze's hair is unparalleled, Reach's hair is just around the corner, waiting patiently and growing silently!

Now if only we'd see him in any future OSL..
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 14:07:55
December 05 2010 14:07 GMT
#5
Exam week is Bacchus Week!

+ Show Spoiler +
not watching OSL but drinking lots and lots of Bacchus!


FRO SO BALLER!
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
ibreakurface
Profile Joined June 2010
United States664 Posts
December 05 2010 14:24 GMT
#6
Nice write up. I like the theory about bisu, makes sense.
:) I play zerg. FOX AND KT ROLSTER COASTER FAN! Because I love everyone. Except bisu.
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 14:58:06
December 05 2010 14:54 GMT
#7
Thanks for the article.

Love live broodwar!

I think Group G: (T)SoulKey vs (T)HiyA has mistakes? Is it a TvZ or TvT?
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49973 Posts
December 05 2010 14:56 GMT
#8
On December 05 2010 23:06 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Show nested quote +

The “Paralyze” award for best hair: (P)Paralyze

Even though Paralyze's hair is unparalleled, Reach's hair is just around the corner, waiting patiently and growing silently!

Now if only we'd see him in any future OSL..


I lol'd so hard at this statement....I hope REACH is not balding anytime soon.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
December 05 2010 14:56 GMT
#9
Great write up team.
Chambo
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil32 Posts
December 05 2010 15:45 GMT
#10
Bisu lost.. 2-0.. =/
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
December 05 2010 16:12 GMT
#11
Thank you for the article Milkis
Caos2
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1728 Posts
December 05 2010 16:13 GMT
#12
Great article, thanks!
StuDToSs
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
116 Posts
December 05 2010 16:36 GMT
#13
i love how u didnt grade shine vs bisu lol
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
December 05 2010 16:42 GMT
#14
Bisu may yet have his revenge on Shine in the MSL. I hope they get the same group.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 16:49:08
December 05 2010 16:43 GMT
#15
Bisu, you’re not “back,” nor were you ever “back.” You’re decent player who had a statistically improbable streak during the first round of Proleague. The last time you were “back” was 18 months ago.


This is the most biased, wrong and obviously intended to troll, statement, that made it into a TL news post article for the whole 2010. I know Bisu is not very popular within the OSL and MSL coverage teams (Milkis and Harem, hi), but I for one cant tolerate such a nonsense, especially considering the fact you are taking the task to present news posts to the most of your abilities. What I quoted is no quality in any way - it's unreasonable fanboysh bias. Therefore I'm going to express my thoughts about it in the exact same fashion.

The line of thought you most likely tried to apply on Bisu's "improbable" 10-0 record can very well by transfered on the performance of many other players. Was Turn's record improbable? How about Flash 0-7 streak in ace matches? What is the statistical probability for a player to reach the Starleagues finals in 3 consecutive seasons? Or if you want to go back to Jaedong, what was the statistical probability for him to face a zerg opponent in the final of his golden mouse run? And so on... Deflating Bisu's PL performance to statistical fluke (winning 10 games in 9 matches) is stupid. Its like saying a certain football striker should not score 10 goals in 9 matches, but for what reason? Because you think he wont be good enough to do it? Bisu's Proleague record is a clear sign of consistency and solid play - dont come with retarded bullshit about him facing crappy opponents or being lucky on number of occasions. Beating crappy opponents, making hot streaks, taking risks that pay off, and have a good portion of luck, is what made Flash so good.

If you think the losses to Shine are a convincing statement about Bisu not being back, just take a look at his year long record in pvz - he has more than 76% winning rate, thats about the same winning percentage of Jaedong in ZvP or even of Flash in TvZ for the same 12 months period. You remember very clearly all Bisu's losses vs Shine, Juni, Yellow and Hogil, you watch these game and say "oh Bisu's crap, he will never be back". Mind you these are his only losses in pvz for the past year. Completely disregarding his 30+ wins against various opponents in this match up, including the likes of Jaedong is biased and stupid.

Indeed Bisu's pvz losses (I'm focusing on these cause your write up was provoked by his screw up against a zerg opponent, Shine) came in early stages of the starleagues, and because of them he could not make deep runs. But saying the only really capable player in PvZ, that has been boosting insane winning record in the MU for the past year (even topping his own 3 years old PvZ elo record) is some "decent" guy, OMG you blew my head off, so much bullshit seriously.

For Milkis I want to say, to try to put Bisu's performance, as protoss player, into perspective, and not just blindly compare his play with S-class guys like Flash and Jaedong. If you see Bisu as a protoss player, his fails in recent times and achievements in the past, will make a lot more sense.

As for Wax I suggest you actually watch some BW games, aside from the Jaedong or Flash stuff. Bisu is back, if you are making other conclusions because of two games against Shine, you must be basing your writing on LR thread comments and the results in the spoilers.

Other than that, the article was spot on, I respect you both immensely for your work and efforts. Keep the good stuff coming.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33203 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 17:04:27
December 05 2010 17:03 GMT
#16
Psh, you read too deeply into fairly straight forward statements.

Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.

The only thing I'll give you is that maybe "decent" was a bit mean
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
December 05 2010 17:08 GMT
#17
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.

Shine is 10-0 now with yesterday's win over Action.

Anyway, thanks for the nice write-up
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
December 05 2010 18:01 GMT
#18
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
December 05 2010 18:06 GMT
#19
It's clear that Bisu is no longer in his extended slump that consumed him in the first half of the year. In that sense, yes, Bisu is back. However, it also seems clear to me that Bisu is not in his top-3 overall, challenging for best player, form either, so in that sense, Bisu is not back in the way many of his fanboys want everybody else to believe.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
December 05 2010 18:32 GMT
#20
Snow vs Soulkey and also various other games lately have made me wonder if possible an arbiter strategy would work, i know Flying did it once to good effect. Personally i did it once against a lurker contain not that it means much. While of course they are very vulnerable to scourge it avoids this whole patrolling a giant toss army back and forth around the map while not actually managing to attack anything situation which happens so often, and these ridiculous FMP-esque sunken lines.
SeeDLiNg
Profile Joined January 2010
United States690 Posts
December 05 2010 18:37 GMT
#21
excited to see BW writeups on front page again.

Nice write up ^^
nehl
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany270 Posts
December 05 2010 18:43 GMT
#22
nice write-up. thanks a lot!
the only way for me to get theses matches since i cannot watch them all
EviL.sc
Profile Joined November 2010
Portugal82 Posts
December 05 2010 19:07 GMT
#23
Thanks for the article!
"I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit." - Bill Hicks
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 19:10:31
December 05 2010 19:09 GMT
#24
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.
Jarhead
Profile Joined September 2009
United States53 Posts
December 05 2010 19:10 GMT
#25
Now I've got to ask you guys to refrain from your usual habits of taking your laptops to the bathroom and reading our reports on the can

How did you know???
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
December 05 2010 19:29 GMT
#26
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.

Quoting this because Bisu is going to win his next 5 games in Proleague.
Translator:3
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 19:41:51
December 05 2010 19:41 GMT
#27
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
December 05 2010 19:46 GMT
#28
On December 06 2010 04:29 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.

Quoting this because Bisu is going to win his next 5 games in Proleague.


Quoting this because Bisu is going into another mini slump! ^.^
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
December 05 2010 19:49 GMT
#29
Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.


Flash is 4-2 in HBR/NHBR vs P
Flash is 7-1 in Medusa vs P
Admittedly, Flash did badly on Destination vs P, but I don't see your point in blaming everything on the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.


I don't think I can argue with this claim (especially since it's such a subjective argument) so we'll just agree to disagree here :O
pieisamazing
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1234 Posts
December 05 2010 19:57 GMT
#30
Always glad to see another write-up when I wake-up.

Okay that was pretty gay.
connoisseur
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 20:00:23
December 05 2010 19:58 GMT
#31
Bisu's tvp on
HBR: 3-0
Destination: 8-0
Medusa: 7-2

You see know what I mean? This was the set of maps on which raged the entire JD vs Bisu bonjwa debate from 2009, although Flash was doing fairly well on the same maps, it was Stork and Bisu that finally could abuse the maps for themselves and completely eclipse the performance of Flash.

Looking at the stats, its clear that Bisu's pvz is better than ever, no matter how badly your wemade fox fanboy heart wants it to be otherwise. Its the PvT that brought the infamous Yong Taek image you were telling us about - sacrificing whole armies in terran walls, recalling on mines, getting raped by 2facs and vultures.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
December 05 2010 20:07 GMT
#32
On December 06 2010 04:58 disciple wrote:
Bisu's tvp on
HBR: 3-0
Destination: 8-0
Medusa: 7-2

You see know what I mean? This was the set of maps on which raged the entire JD vs Bisu bonjwa debate from 2009, although Flash was doing fairly well on the same maps, it was Stork and Bisu that finally could abuse the maps for themselves and eclipse the performance of Flash.

Looking at the stats, its clear that Bisu's pvz is better than ever, no matter how badly your wemade fox fanboy heart wants it to be otherwise. Its the PvT that brought the infamous Yong Taek image you were telling us about - sacrificing whole armies in terran walls, recalling on mines, getting raped by 2facs and vultures.


Yeah doesn't seem to help that Bisu's PvZ was 4-4 on HBR, 7-4 on Destination, right? Of course different maps help different play styles but I HONESTLY cannot believe you're ridiculing Bisu this much by pretty much just admitting Bisu cannot adjust to maps or something despite him trying really hard to do so this season? If you're good, you're good, and you will adjust to Maps, which is why S class players are S class. By admitting that you're pretty much saying Bisu's dominance was a flash in the pan made by maps? How do you explain Jaedong and Flash's dominance for such a long period then? Maps again? Going by that definition Bisu was never dominant, he was just lucky with the maps. This is why this is such a poor way of defining things.

What does my "wemade fox fanboy heart" have to do with anything? Sorry, if you're implying I'm somehow "biased" because Shine > Bisu then I'm just going to laugh about that.
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 21:18:41
December 05 2010 20:11 GMT
#33
it's definitely not a coincidence that whenever players go on a strong run people say "hey this guy is good"... and when the run ends people say "he was never good to begin with"
edit: e.g. Bisu, Action are 2 prominent examples... Baby to a lesser extent.

edit 2: blagh, to clarify, i meant "never good to begin with" as in "this streak is total luck, bisu doesn't have more skill than he did during the slump"
Translator:3
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
December 05 2010 20:17 GMT
#34
On December 06 2010 05:11 infinitestory wrote:
it's definitely not a coincidence that whenever players go on a strong run people say "hey this guy is good"... and when the run ends people say "he was never good to begin with"
edit: e.g. Bisu, Action are 2 prominent examples... Baby to a lesser extent.


There's no one saying Bisu was "never good to begin with" so I would prefer if you didn't use that wording. I'm assuming the fact that Bisu was once the dominant S rank player, and that he's nowhere as nearly skilled as before. disciple seems to be arguing that Bisu is still as good as he was before, it's just the maps changed so that Bisu can't perform. I'm jsut saying if this is true then he's no more than a flash in the pan that's slowly heating away.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
December 05 2010 20:24 GMT
#35
Jaedong's dominance ? Dont get me started - free wins bullshit maps like ToTM, holy world, Byzantium etc. Sure he is insanely good, but the maps are such an overwhelming factor. I wonder why he got to play so much zvz in the same season (and actually losing a couple of important matches, vs calm in msl and effort in gom). S class is always S class ? Do you even remember how pathetic flash was playing for his potential for long periods back in 2008? Was that S class performance and how exactly was he adjusting? And no, you are not adjusting to the maps (unless you are savior), there are 3 races in starcraft, flash jaedong and bisu have completely different problems to solve, that are specific for their respective race. If the maps are straight up bad for your race, there is no chance for you to be dominant in competition with about equal skill. Did any zerg or Jaedong adjust to Tiamat ? No, he got raped by forgg.

This will eventually become the typical "my guy is playing awesome cause I like him, and because I dont like the other guy, he will never be good enough". Even if flash is by far the most talented sc player of all time, the sheer skill of bisu flash and jaedong is similar, its all about motivation, momentum and maps.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 20:28:46
December 05 2010 20:27 GMT
#36
it depends on how you're defining "bisu's back"
to some, including me, it just means he's out of the horrendous slump that dogged him throughout the previous proleague season
to you and others, it seems, it means he's returned to his peak - and few players ever return to their peak.
bisu is going through a resurgence, and given a matchup with nearly anyone bar Shine, Fantasy, Flash, and Jaedong, I'd favor Bisu. But he's not the S-Class that would be favored against everyone, for sure.
To say that Bisu is a "decent player who had a statistically improbable streak" is completely unfair, though.

"decent player who had a statistically improbable streak" might be Killer or PerfectMan. But not Bisu.
Translator:3
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
December 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#37
On December 06 2010 05:24 disciple wrote:
Jaedong's dominance ? Dont get me started - free wins bullshit maps like ToTM, holy world, Byzantium etc. Sure he is insanely good, but the maps are such an overwhelming factor. I wonder why he got to play so much zvz in the same season (and actually losing a couple of important matches, vs calm in msl and effort in gom). S class is always S class ? Do you even remember how pathetic flash was playing for his potential for long periods back in 2008? Was that S class performance and how exactly was he adjusting? And no, you are not adjusting to the maps (unless you are savior), there are 3 races in starcraft, flash jaedong and bisu have completely different problems to solve, that are specific for their respective race. If the maps are straight up bad for your race, there is no chance for you to be dominant in competition with about equal skill. Did any zerg or Jaedong adjust to Tiamat ? No, he got raped by forgg.

This will eventually become the typical "my guy is playing awesome cause I like him, and because I dont like the other guy, he will never be good enough". Even if flash is by far the most talented sc player of all time, the sheer skill of bisu flash and jaedong is similar, its all about motivation, momentum and maps.


Are you seriously going to look at 5 total TvZs games played on that map and say that?

You seem to have some ridiculous view of Starcraft lol
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 20:42:01
December 05 2010 20:37 GMT
#38
yea, we sure needed like 20 more TvZs for it to become obvious, that ZvT is so fucking hard on Tiamat , you are right sir

Or maybe 10 more PvZs on ToTM, who knows, the METAGAME might've changed.

The simple reason why there are so few games on these maps is because they are not getting used in PL.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 20:53:16
December 05 2010 20:47 GMT
#39
I remember how people were talking about how protoss should find a way to deal with ToTM.
Needless to say, it never happened, probably because it's impossible. In my opinion, protoss get screwed harder by maps than anyone else.
Also, Bisu isn't only good on P maps, before his extended slump Bisu had an insane record on Fighting Spirit.
Of course even if Bisu loses you can't say "he was never good," but you can say "his career is over"/"he'll never be back" or something. But Bisu still has the skill to beat Flash and Jaedong, but it seems that his decision-making is suffering, probably from all his months of not being relevant in the BW scene. But as someone said before, it's easier to become a smarter player than a more mechanically sound one.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
December 05 2010 20:51 GMT
#40
Bisu is one of those players who, when things are going well, he rolls his opponents in such an elegant and dominating fashion that it misleads you into thinking he's better than he is.

Honestly, Bisu currently reminds me of like how Flash was in 2009 where he was a great PL player but just couldn't make it happen in the individual leagues. Flash was better then than Bisu is now (and Flash never had trouble at least getting into both leagues), but in terms of the ability to dominate bad players and inability to adjust, there are a lot of similarities there.

Also, I love how the great whiners Bisu and Stork lead the way for Protoss fans to be huge whiners about maps. Yeah Flash and Jaedong haven't overcome EVERY SINGLE tough map in the last few years but they've come close, as opposed to Bisu/Stork who seem like they just want to lay down and die while reminiscing about fall 2008.
MisteR
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands595 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-05 21:32:51
December 05 2010 21:10 GMT
#41
Excellent analysis on the (P)Bisu vs (Z)Shine situation. I'm, as usual, confused by the match ratings. Why does the huge majority of the games get a rating of 5 or less? We are all starcraft fans right? Sure there are games that are so terribly played or so drawn-out that one should be discouraged from watching, but if one player performs a good strategy perfectly, while the other is caught off-guard, then that is watchable, no?

The very first game can serve as example. Both players played well enough, only (Z)Neo.G_Soulkey won the mindgame, and performed a mutalisk rush while (P)Snow was expecting something completely different. This game gets a match rating of one out of ten. I cannot understand that at all, when there is a perfectly executed strategy from Soulkey to be seen. Sure, it's not the most interesting game, especially because Snow was caught with his pants down, but neither is it especially boring or especially terrible. Given that both players have a history together, the narrative should go into the possible mindgames behind this short but brutal game, instead of berating Snow for "poor preparation" when there is so much more going on.

Then the second game in the same series, features both players performing extremely unusual strategies, while still playing good starcraft. The narrative actually goes at length describing this interesting game, but in the end, the match rating doesn't go above five! This game had it all, unusual openings, even weirder follow-ups, while Soulkey in particular played very good reacting perfectly to Snow's every move. Surely this game should be recommended to watch and 5/10 does not convey that enough.

In the end, I have no idea what kind of game you guys want to see before you'd recommend it. Apparently only (T)Flash versus (Z)Jaedong is interesting and that only when the stars align. In my opinion the ratings are far, far too low and actually discourage the fans from watching, which I cannot believe to be the goal of the match rating system.

EDIT:
The post below made me realise I forgot to thank you for you hard work on the writeup. It really is appreciated! The qualms I have with the match rating is just a little nitpicking. I hugely enjoyed reading the whole thing whatever the case.
Nal_Ra/Much/Horang2/Flying fighting!~
Pippah
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark353 Posts
December 05 2010 21:24 GMT
#42
I LOVE your BW posts! please keep doing them, there are still alot of us BW fans out there who really appreciate it !
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
December 05 2010 22:15 GMT
#43
Paralyze has awesome hair lol
bITt.mAN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Switzerland3691 Posts
December 05 2010 22:46 GMT
#44
I really appreciate the prize section of these writeups, and kudos to the Zero Hogil
BW4LYF . . . . . . PM me, I LOVE PMs. . . . . . Long live "NaDa's Body" . . . . . . Fantasy | Bisu/Best | Jaedong . . . . .
PineappleLumpsToss
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand2434 Posts
December 06 2010 00:20 GMT
#45
Thanks for the write-up guys. The battle reports in particular must take a lot of effort, so thanks for all your hard work.

As a Bisu fan I actually enjoyed the article. Some of the comments were a little inflammatory, but that's not a bad thing if it ultimately leads to informed and interesting debate. I'm in agreement with infinitestory that Bisu is out of his slump, improving, but not at his KTS level.

While I agree with disciple that maps definitely play a part, I also agree with Milkis that S-Class players should be able to rise above the map-bias.
IntoTheEmo
Profile Joined February 2009
Singapore1169 Posts
December 06 2010 01:53 GMT
#46
Oooh another controversial article! Great read as usual.

Now I've got to ask you guys to refrain from your usual habits of taking your laptops to the bathroom and reading our reports on the can, because we're going to come out with the group selection report in short order! So set some time aside and give this week's report a careful read, and you'll stay up to speed.


Whaaat.... that was only the one time >.> <.<
MMOs kill APM. However Proleague plus BW Proscene music increase APM -> 100. 이제동 Fighting! Highest ranked Jaedong owner in FPL10 = clearly #1 Jaedong fan~! <- Keeping my sig from 2010
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10340 Posts
December 06 2010 02:24 GMT
#47
It apparently has not yet occurred to TL writers, or anyone on TL, that Shine is actually a good player? Bisu goes on a monster streak going back to the end of last season, loses to Shine again, OH GOD HE'S NOT BACK HE'S ON A FLUKY PL STREAK LIKE SHINE IS RIGHT NOW! Elitists. All of you!
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
December 06 2010 02:36 GMT
#48
great writeup. its always great to see a player like Hogil in the ro. 16
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
December 06 2010 02:41 GMT
#49
On December 06 2010 11:24 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
It apparently has not yet occurred to TL writers, or anyone on TL, that Shine is actually a good player? Bisu goes on a monster streak going back to the end of last season, loses to Shine again, OH GOD HE'S NOT BACK HE'S ON A FLUKY PL STREAK LIKE SHINE IS RIGHT NOW! Elitists. All of you!

i noticed it :D
as well as a couple other people i've seen who have been saying "hey look at shine, he has 4 losses this season, 10 game win streak, maybe he is doing something right"
Translator:3
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3156 Posts
December 06 2010 02:42 GMT
#50
Great write-up, the bisu-fanboy debate aside.
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 03:07:05
December 06 2010 03:06 GMT
#51
I don't think Bisu is playing worse than he was at his prime, he just got overtaken by Flash and JD. This is not a huge revelation, it's exactly what has been happening throughout the history of Starcraft...some guy is on top, then eventually a new player comes along who challenges him, beats him and assumes dominance for a period of time, thus pushing the skill ceiling even higher. Bisu may have been on top, but now the rest of the field has caught up and he has to be content with his place as one of many "good" players.

The person who eventually rises and pushes Flash/JD out of top position is not going to be a hero from the past like Bisu or Stork, it will be someone new.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
trifecta
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6795 Posts
December 06 2010 03:09 GMT
#52
Go Frotoss!!11!
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
December 06 2010 03:12 GMT
#53
Tosses are all sucking right now, really need someone new to step up.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
December 06 2010 03:20 GMT
#54
bisu is...half back then?

BISUU WHYY
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33203 Posts
December 06 2010 04:32 GMT
#55
On December 06 2010 05:11 infinitestory wrote:
it's definitely not a coincidence that whenever players go on a strong run people say "hey this guy is good"... and when the run ends people say "he was never good to begin with"
edit: e.g. Bisu, Action are 2 prominent examples... Baby to a lesser extent.

edit 2: blagh, to clarify, i meant "never good to begin with" as in "this streak is total luck, bisu doesn't have more skill than he did during the slump"


It's much more complicated than that. People look at the quality of the games.

For example, I don't think anyone would say Baby was never good and just got lucky. The quality of his play during his runs showed that he has amazing talent and is one of the best players in the world when he can play 100%. We just learned that he is very inconsistent as a player.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33203 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 04:39:49
December 06 2010 04:38 GMT
#56
On December 06 2010 06:10 MisteR wrote:
Excellent analysis on the (P)Bisu vs (Z)Shine situation. I'm, as usual, confused by the match ratings. Why does the huge majority of the games get a rating of 5 or less? We are all starcraft fans right? Sure there are games that are so terribly played or so drawn-out that one should be discouraged from watching, but if one player performs a good strategy perfectly, while the other is caught off-guard, then that is watchable, no?

The very first game can serve as example. Both players played well enough, only (Z)Neo.G_Soulkey won the mindgame, and performed a mutalisk rush while (P)Snow was expecting something completely different. This game gets a match rating of one out of ten. I cannot understand that at all, when there is a perfectly executed strategy from Soulkey to be seen. Sure, it's not the most interesting game, especially because Snow was caught with his pants down, but neither is it especially boring or especially terrible. Given that both players have a history together, the narrative should go into the possible mindgames behind this short but brutal game, instead of berating Snow for "poor preparation" when there is so much more going on.

Then the second game in the same series, features both players performing extremely unusual strategies, while still playing good starcraft. The narrative actually goes at length describing this interesting game, but in the end, the match rating doesn't go above five! This game had it all, unusual openings, even weirder follow-ups, while Soulkey in particular played very good reacting perfectly to Snow's every move. Surely this game should be recommended to watch and 5/10 does not convey that enough.

In the end, I have no idea what kind of game you guys want to see before you'd recommend it. Apparently only (T)Flash versus (Z)Jaedong is interesting and that only when the stars align. In my opinion the ratings are far, far too low and actually discourage the fans from watching, which I cannot believe to be the goal of the match rating system.

EDIT:
The post below made me realise I forgot to thank you for you hard work on the writeup. It really is appreciated! The qualms I have with the match rating is just a little nitpicking. I hugely enjoyed reading the whole thing whatever the case.


Match Rating is basically a subjective measure of "entertainment," not an overall indicator of the skill level shown in the match. A mostly one-sided game will struggle to get above a 5/10 (which is dead-center average) when I am rating.

The player ratings we did last season were the system we used to measure the skill level in a game... but we've stopped doing them temporarily because they were Kwark's call for the most part. And now he's addicted to EVE online or something stupid -_-. We hope to have him back for the RO16 =o
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33203 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-06 04:44:04
December 06 2010 04:43 GMT
#57
On December 06 2010 11:24 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
It apparently has not yet occurred to TL writers, or anyone on TL, that Shine is actually a good player? Bisu goes on a monster streak going back to the end of last season, loses to Shine again, OH GOD HE'S NOT BACK HE'S ON A FLUKY PL STREAK LIKE SHINE IS RIGHT NOW! Elitists. All of you!


A 10-0 streak would be considered fluky for pretty much any player outside the top 3~4.

I think we have a pretty good assessment on how good Shine is, and it says that he's not a top 4 player.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2745 Posts
December 06 2010 11:18 GMT
#58
The links to pathfinder and gladiator are wrong. If i recall correctly this has happened in other threads too. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/408_Pathfinder should be http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/409_Pathfinder and http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/410_Gladiator should be http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/411_Gladiator

(the numbers change)
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2745 Posts
December 06 2010 11:37 GMT
#59
About match rating: I agree with OP. If something strategical clever happens which can be told in 3 lines of text I'd rather just read it then spend 20 minutes watching a game which might be otherwise boring. I don't have too much time left, which should be spend on watching teh most entertaining game.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
December 06 2010 14:33 GMT
#60
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.


Well, no, not "the" favorite. But "a" favorite, certainly. I could be overestimating him, of course.

On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.


I don't expect anybody to pull anything much over 5 or 6 wins - ever. If you can, you need a little bit of luck but it's also a good indicator that the player is pretty damn good.

On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"?


It's not snubbing Kal if I think Bisu is actually better. Between Kal, free, and Bisu, it's really close right now - Bisu's got a better Proleague record, but Kal and free both have dual leagues still. I actually gave the nod to free at #1, not Bisu - but the three are basically indistinguishable in terms of skill at the moment. I think. Obviously you can disagree.

On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


Okay, thanks for clarifying. Though I actually think that, "He lost to Shine so he's not great," is better reasoning than, "That 12-game winstreak was a fluke because he's not great."
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
December 06 2010 23:27 GMT
#61
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
December 07 2010 02:01 GMT
#62
On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.


I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 02:17:41
December 07 2010 02:15 GMT
#63
On December 07 2010 11:01 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.


I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?

he called his opponents "insurance" and beat them with scouts. but really, nothing will ever top savior playing offrace vs gorush in the MSL. we dont have moments like these anymore
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
December 08 2010 13:05 GMT
#64
I apologize. Kal is good.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
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