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On January 23 2010 22:30 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote:
It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^' I was afraid it would be disappointing too, but for completely different reasons. From their previous BO3 (osl), i was thinking the matches wont be 'epic' enough (aside from who it is that's playing), like a muta harrassment leading to gg, or a bunker rush / timing attack. The first match was sort of like that (between 10-15 mins or so), but the second match was great (and quite intense for a while). The real shame is how everything fell apart. That 3rd match was the very definition of epic. Probably one of the most intense TvZs ive seen all year, and it kills me that it didn't occur to anyone to have a UPS battery backup on the hardware in the studio (computers/monitors as well as all the recording equipment). After that, it all went downhill. And unfortunately, nobody can enjoy the end-results, not even JD.
/Agree; why didn't the blackout happen during a boring game? Game 3 was freakin' sweet! ^^'
Even if JD woudl've won, maybe flash could've pulled of some nice moves that were, even if not game-winning, at least exciting.
But anyways: Tomorrow it's Winners-League-Time and everything will be fine and dandy again. xD
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On January 23 2010 22:29 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 22:24 Ballistixz wrote:
the match honestly could have went either way. flash still had alot of stuff to keep him in the game pumping meds and rines (as all of you have seen he just kept pumping and pumping away.) and he had enough vessels to easily irradiate all of the defilers and ultras on the field. flash could have taken that base and established more of his own. even towards the very few seconds before the power went out we seen that flash had vessels by jaedongs mineral line at that base indicating he was probably going for another eraser trick with the drones. so even if jaedong was able to defend the base itself his mining there would have been severely disrupted if not halted all together.
on the other hand jaedong could have defended it well by just keeping the vessel count down and plaguing and swarming everything. he did have enought units to defend that base but he DID NOT have the units to take the game. we seen how heavy flashes wall was, he was able to defend it with just rines. no tanks at all. but at the same time flash didnt have units to really take the game either since he was sending them all to atk that bottom left. even if flash took that base it wouldnt have meant he would have automatically won because he didnt have the units to win the game at that point. same with jaedong, even if he defended it he didnt have the units to take the game just yet..
so thats why imho i beleive the game should have been restarted. up until the power outage it really was a stale mate. and honestly in a pro high lvl and high caliber game as that one you just CAN NOT call something like that. in such high lvl of play ANYTHING can happen. we seen that in game 2 just before the game 3 match. it looked like jaedong had the game won in game 2 but flash pulled out a victory. you just cant call stuff like that. Watch the vod on youtube. There's 30 seconds that wasn't shown in the playback. In it Flash makes one more abortive push towards 7, scouts a defiler consuming lings and then in the last 3 seconds Flash retreats his army back to his min only. The battle for 7 was over. This isn't just theorycraft and extrapolation, Flash aborted his last attack on 7 after scouted sunks, ultras and a fully charged defiler. With 7 up and running the game was over.
from what i seen the last few seconds before the outage he did pull his units back but he still had a few vessels near his min line which i figured he could have just pulled back his units while getting ready for another eraser trick on the drones. the base wouldnt have been taken but he also wouldnt have any drones mining there for a bit. also we seen jaedong attemtp to harass flash many times during that game and not getting anything accomplished.
theres to many unknowns to call a game like that. towards the last few seconds before the outtage jaedong really didnt have many units out on the field to take flash out. so i cant see how they can call that a win for him. its the same for flash, he didnt have much of anything either at that point. most of his M&M forces were wiped and didnt have many vessels at that point. jaedong didnt have many defilers and almost all of his ultras got iradiated except for maybe a handfull. but who is to say flash wasnt in the process of macroing up another big atk force and vice versa?
i was rooting for jaedong to win the entire match, but not like this. imho i think the judges made a wrong call. the game should have been restarted.
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United States44451 Posts
On January 23 2010 22:40 Ballistixz wrote:
but who is to say flash wasnt in the process of macroing up another big atk force and vice versa?
With what money? His main was mined out and his nat was almost mined.
What you need to understand is JDs build was a special abusive build designed to combat Flash's style on Odd-Eye. A rematch would be giving the game to Flash. It wouldn't work twice. But it did work once. Also those vessels had no energy. They'd just cast irradiate on ultralisks and were moving about above the defiler as it consumed without casting. With that in mind I think it unlikely he was about to eraser the min line.
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On January 23 2010 22:29 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:46 7mk wrote:On January 23 2010 21:43 kickinhead wrote:
It really blows my mind how this MSL panned out. But I kinda felt it's gonna be disappointing, but this was just too much. ^^'
Why don't just replay the game? It's totally stupid to let someone win by default in a MSL-final and in my Opinion, Flash had a good chance to win this game. 3rd CC going up, many vessels, good pressuring JD's bases, opportunity for Dropship-play like in Game 2, already raped JD's 3rd gas once and killed lots of drones.
JD had a certain advantage, but he was totally on his back foot and thats not a good position to play against JD.
I mean; I was rooting for JD, but 2 very short and one-sided wins for JD and one by default and in between of that hours of drama, was kinda disappointing. At least if you're interested in long and exciting games and not the Drama and Korean commercials. ^^' I also had a hunch it was gonna be disappointing but jesus, who would have expected this.. Your analysis is completely wrong though That 3rd cc was soon to be his only base mining many vessels? no, low vessel count, low energy. Pressuring JD's bases with ALL he had. dropship play? he needed every vessel he could get he couldnt have gone dropship. Flash was about to lose. Well, you just can't be sure JD would've won. And yes, Flash was soon to run out of mins on main and natural, but thats no guarantee that JD would've won. About the Vessels: Flash lost lots of Vessels, but he still had enough to irradiate JD's Defilers to keep them from entering Flahses bases. I think Flash could've at least defended his bases. My point is just, that even if you think it's okay to declare someone a winner when it's pretty obvious (and even that would be kinda stupid in a MSL Finals) this Game was certainly not one of them. Its pretty obvious JD had a certain advantage, but why don't just replay the game? It's annoying for the players, the people watching, they players parents (as we witnessed ^^') and the whole SC-scene. I'm sure many people will shout out stuff like "rigged" and stuff like that. It just doesn't make sense... I mean, what could be the reasons not to replay the game: 1) The Match could go too long: Nothing compared to hours of boring debate and commercials. 2) It's annoying for the palyers: I'm sure JD and Flash were pretty annoyed to wait so long and not knowing what will happen. 3) The people watching don't want to see a regame after a 20min game and they want to see results: Well, that's just a matter of opinion. I would've been pretty happy with a 6-Set best-of-5 MSl Finals. ^^' (Instead, we get 4 Set's with one-sided games and the only interesting game being the one that didn't got finished.)
The main reason (and a valid one at that) is that the map favored terran, and in order to counter it, JD used a very risky opening, which worked, but would be ruined in a rematch since Flash has just seen it.
However, had a rematch been scheduled for a later day (in a week or so), possibly even a different map (a proleague map perhaps, that both players are currently very familiar with), it would eliminate this problem, as both of them can plan whatever strategies they need to and not be placed at a disadvantage. As for the 4th match, it was pretty clear Flash wasn't playing like himself, and its really not his fault (with dad being escorted out, and the drama over the previous match + his team and coaches), its a real shame that the series ended like that.
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Wow.. the design of this newspost actually made it too distracting to read the content at first. It was just that good (:
Good finals.
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On January 23 2010 22:49 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 22:40 Ballistixz wrote:
but who is to say flash wasnt in the process of macroing up another big atk force and vice versa?
With what money? His main was mined out and his nat was almost mined. What you need to understand is JDs build was a special abusive build designed to combat Flash's style on Odd-Eye. A rematch would be giving the game to Flash. It wouldn't work twice. But it did work once. Also those vessels had no energy. They'd just cast irradiate on ultralisks and were moving about above the defiler as it consumed without casting. With that in mind I think it unlikely he was about to eraser the min line.
he was getting ready to put another base up. but still i dont beleive anyone can call something like that especially when its jaedong vs flash were talking about. like i said u can just look at game 2 and see that jaedong appeared to have the match won but brilliant micro from flash won him that game. who is to say he couldnt pull off the same thing in game 3?
either way it was a BS ending. u can see going into game 4 almost everyone left the stadium and flash was in a desprate attempt to rush a win so he can stay in. jaedong unfortunately predicted he was in a rush to win game 4 after what happened in the last game and went with a rush build himself. and sad to say flash lost the MSL on a very bad note and a bunch of "what ifs" had to of entered his mind with game 3. the end celebration was so damn sad... almost half the ppl left at that point and it honestly didnt feel like a victory at all.
it just ended in a real sad way and this will definably live on in SC history and definably be the subject of huge controversy. it rly sux the way it ended and i beleive this should have been handled differently. but what are you gonna do =/. oh well wats done is done.
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he was getting ready to put another base up. but still i dont beleive anyone can call something like that especially when its jaedong vs flash were talking about. like i said u can just look at game 2 and see that jaedong appeared to have the match won but brilliant micro from flash won him that game. who is to say he couldnt pull off the same thing in game 3?
In game two jaedong lost his guardians for nothing, and flash had a huge army. Unlike in third game, Flash's bases were NOT mined out! If it got disconnected nobody would have rewarded the other with a win. Your point would have made sense if jaedong had a few ultras by the time the drops came, but he had nothing. Like 12 lings and thats it, and ultras about a minute away.
This wasn't the case in game three, flashs bases were mined out, his army would not be rebuilt in a moment, his vessel count was low and they had no energy. Jaedong had 3 bases mining well, and a fourth starting to drone up. Flash didn't have dropships because he needed vessels so that jaedong couldnt dark swarm everything he has. Even if he had dropships, what would he drop? marines which don't exist? If he dropped the units used elsewhere, he still wouldnt kill jaedong and he wouldnt have any marines at his main or expansions.
There was pretty much a 5-10% chance of flash winning.
Though I do agree that it's a lose-lose no matter what was decided.
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OMG. I JUST REALIZED HOW GOSU BISU REALLY IS. PREDICTING JD 3-1 OMGGGGGGGG
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Very nice article. I'm pumped.
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On January 23 2010 23:42 C[SCL] wrote:
OMG. I JUST REALIZED HOW GOSU BISU REALLY IS. PREDICTING JD 3-1 OMGGGGGGGG
I bet he was the one who pluged "THE CABLE" . It was all part of his plan  .
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Are people really debating who would have won the Odd-eye match? Get over it. Jaedong may not have had many units out, but in Starcraft, Zerg uses Hatcheries or Lair or Hive to spawn units, many at a time. He could make 12 larvae of lings, with a little defiler support he would have had a very effective contain on a starved Flash.
This isn't that hard people...
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On January 24 2010 03:31 Hehlol wrote:
Are people really debating who would have won the Odd-eye match? Get over it. Jaedong may not have had many units out, but in Starcraft, Zerg uses Hatcheries or Lair or Hive to spawn units, many at a time. He could make 12 larvae of lings, with a little defiler support he would have had a very effective contain on a starved Flash.
This isn't that hard people...
Yeah it didn't though. ~_~
This isn't that hard for you.
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this write-up..
my eyes are burning from the awesomeness..
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I'm amazed with all the controversy that has generated, Jaedong had that win, it's as simple as that, just accept it nerdfans. Why do some of you try so hard to diminish what Jaedong has accomplished?
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United States44451 Posts
On January 24 2010 04:37 ZeeTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 03:31 Hehlol wrote:
Are people really debating who would have won the Odd-eye match? Get over it. Jaedong may not have had many units out, but in Starcraft, Zerg uses Hatcheries or Lair or Hive to spawn units, many at a time. He could make 12 larvae of lings, with a little defiler support he would have had a very effective contain on a starved Flash.
This isn't that hard people... Yeah it didn't though. ~_~ This isn't that hard for you.
I can explain simply how JD would win from that position using his 4 bases and 5 gas and the units and tech he had, as well as the 5th base morphing at 1. Would you please go ahead and explain how Flash would win with his one mining base with 6 crystals, his low vessel count and his single group of mnm.
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lol the hwaeseung house's were epic
-_____- but this series was a total anticlimatic fail
 so much for your predictions Hot_Bid
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Nicely done, great hype I can't wait to watch the games once my chosen commentator(s) run through it and upload.
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On January 24 2010 04:50 anotheracc wrote:
I'm amazed with all the controversy that has generated, Jaedong had that win, it's as simple as that, just accept it nerdfans. Why do some of you try so hard to diminish what Jaedong has accomplished?
Will because they were so used to Flash winning they are in complete shock right now let alone a ton of people were saying Flash was going to 3-0 Jaedong no problem. They are butt hurt right now give it some time and hopefully they relax by then I am just soo happy Jaedong beat flash due to all the fanboys :D
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EPT
