EPTEven if he by some miracle is green or blue, his play has made no sense, and he hasn't been contributing to the town in any way. He doesn't deserve the medic protection and shouldn't hog our medics from some actually useful players who might need the protection more. The same thing goes for iLoveKTF, by the way.
Pyrry's Mafia Game - GG - Page 4
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Even if he by some miracle is green or blue, his play has made no sense, and he hasn't been contributing to the town in any way. He doesn't deserve the medic protection and shouldn't hog our medics from some actually useful players who might need the protection more. The same thing goes for iLoveKTF, by the way. | ||
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Shikyo
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We don't have the time to wait for solid evidence. We don't have the time to just sit around just CLUE ANALYSING. Hey, when was the last time a town won a game based on clue analysis alone? It really is unaccurate and it's extremely easy for mafia to point out potential clues for non-mafias. It's fascinating how you're so experienced but don't realize that we indeed have to analyse the behavior, as it is the best method of catching mafia until something like day 4. Actually, I think it's the best method period. It's cool if you don't mind being off the medic list. Maybe I'll just make it clear that I don't want medics to protect you. Is that better? It seems like in your argument with teks, you do your best to correct unimportant things that really don't matter in the long run, like him using a too powerful tone or whatever, but you really just asked stupid rhetorical questions and actually failed to prove anything. But hey, I can't fault you for that, either. It definitely is something I would do if I was mafia. I'd point out the unimportant flaws of my opponent's arguments. It's a good way to sway the attention away from, say, you being the Godfather. That being said, let's see what you'll post about me, now. I think chopping those quotes is way too troublesome so I'll just quote all of it at once. On May 23 2009 23:26 zeks wrote: Now that I've dealt with teks, let's deal with Shikyo's argument deconstruction. Why were you so quick on lynching therapy? Oh, as I recall, you were the one who dropped the axe on him? No one even slightly challenged my case to lynch therapy. I was hoping for other options to be out there, but no one said anything. This by all means doesn't mean I'm not taking responsibility for his death. If the DT rolechecked me I'd only initially be communicating to that one DT. I agree with you that I haven't been the biggest help lately. But I assure you, and everyone else that it will all change by tonight or tomorrow morning. was a reply to . When have I ever pointed a finger at you? When have I even mentioned your name in an analysis? What part of is directed at you, Shikyo? Why do you think I'm talking about you when I say mafia? Stop pulling random implications out of what I'm saying. I've said to "read my posts as they are". You want to play with "time"? Sure, two can play that game. May 22 2009 21:43 - May 22 2009 23:06 - Do the math, 23:06- 21:43. Less than fucking 2 hours. Sorry if I'm not 24/7 devoted to this game, and a rebuttal less than 2 hours later is not good enough for you. Stop using such backhanded tactics to incriminate me. I never said Jim was a good hit enough to warrant 2 hits - you can try to quote me on it. I never said it was suspicious for you to put him on the list - you can try to quote me on that too. All I am saying is that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable. I never directed anything at you, so I don't know why you're getting so defensive. Read my posts as they are. See why are you so stuck up that you think I'm targeting you? I'll repeat it once more. All I said in that exchange was that the option of a mafia putting Jim on his/her medic list is totally probable. Don't make it look like I'm against you now. Although you've built up quite a case on me (or at least had a good attempt to), I'm not going to start going finger-pointing-crazy. I didn't contribute that much for the night 2 lynch, and I admit my fault. But I assure the town that after you read my analysis that I will have for tonight (12 hours) tomorrow (24 hours) there will be no doubt of my contributions. If anyone wants me to clarify anything I've said I'm very willing to now as I am now forced into a defensive position. First of all, sorry about saying "being silent for a while", it was meant for more of the storytelling rather than using it to accuse you of something. Oh, you meant the "never to be seen again"? Yes, that was before these last few posts of you. I indeed meant that the convo was in those last few quotes, that I quoted after I had said that. I thought it was apparent Was I really that unclear with what I meant? I wonder if someone else was so confused about this. It was really important, after all, so it definitely is worth mentioning. Right? That wasn't actually even my mistake, you just happened to misread. I know what "Mafia may want to have a mixed list maybe? Would mafia want to make the whole medic list full of mafia?" was a response to. Hey, didn't you just say to not read your posts out of context? And then you tell to read them how they are? No, I won't read how they are. I will look in between the lines. Indeed, if teks is defending my decision to put Jimtudor on the list, and then asks how it would benefit the mafia to put their target on the list, and then you come up with an answer(that makes no sense, I think you forgot to address how stupid your suggestion is), it implies that you think it's possible that I did it as mafia after all. Reading posts in the right context, weren't you advocating that yourself? To me, a terrible, forced suggestion like that in that context makes it seem like you're trying to find some way to make me it seem like I could make that decision as mafia, implying again that it's possible, even likely, that I'm mafia. But hey, maybe I'm reading it all wrong and your brain just stopped functioning as you posted that. That definitely is possible, as well. It's not a random implication, it definitely is justified. Do you know why it's justified? It seems like you forgot something important. It was none other than I who personally made the final medic list. Of course it implies I'm mafia if you say that mafia could have put him on the medic list and try to find justification for it? That's like saying "This game's host is doing a great job!" and then asking you to quote me ever saying that "Pyrrhuloxia is doing a great job". If you didn't catch it, it means the same thing. Maybe I should ask my English teacher if there indeed is an implication there? Seems like you based the mayority of your argument around that implication that I see there. That makes me happy, it means that your case for defending yourself must be pretty weak. And how can you call it random? I'm sure you've read my explanation numerous times by now. And haha, you didn't seem to understand the main point about that post of mine and the one after it, did you? Well, it is that it actually is NOT totally probable or intelligent for Mafia to put Jimtudor on their medic lists. Why? People WERE casting suspicion on him. It would have been really simple to go along with that and take him off the list, maximizing the chance of hitting him. Your arguments are dead wrong. That's the point. Hey zeks, was this your defense? Because you are doing an abysmal job with it. Oh, and "I will post something in x days" is the oldest trick in the book. I partially agree with zeks quoting the post by JeeJee, but I think I'm going to post some more accurate directions for the medics later on. For now, don't protect zeks  | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
teks, that kind of clue analysis is definitely useful and is a nice format for it. The amount of detail is just kind of... yeah. About lynching Therapy, I wasn't even considering that I would become the mayor. Then when I was just about to go to sleep, I thought "Hmm who is the town for lynching? Therapy seems like the agreed on option, let me send that", and then sent it. It was late at night, and I fell asleep soon afterwards. I'm not sure if Pyrr is allowed to verify this, but my PM I sent to him was something like "Therapy for now, but I might change it later", implying that I was unsure. Unnecessary information, but someone might want to look at that. On May 24 2009 03:44 Foolishness wrote: Interesting that you were the first person to bring this up way back on day 1. Let's assume for a second that at least one of the candidates that ran for office in our game is mafia (a relatively reasonable assumption). Now all that's left is to figure out who it is. Say zeks is indeed mafia like everyone is claiming. What does he have to gain from killing JimTudor the first night? Only the fact that a townsperson is dead. zeks has played in past mafia games so we know he is not a first timer and has some idea of what's going on. It is very common to rolecheck and suspect losers of the election. If he killed JimTudor during the night, that would make him prime suspect for this case (as we have just seen). Honestly what a stupid move on his part. He kills the competition (JimTudor was suspected by many many people), now he's the only one left that looks suspicious. Do you think zeks is this stupid (gj crate)? Seems unlikely. Let's consider the other alternative. Shikyo is mafia. He is a smart man, and knows that losers of the election are going to be accused. He decides to kill two birds with one stone. He kills JimTudor the first night, knocking out one of the 'major' candidates for the election. His plan is then to come out with "evidence" against zeks. Although he has not directly said it, Shikyo is basically saying "one of the candidates for election has to be mafia. Well, it's not me, I don't think it's JeeJee. JimTudor is dead. Oh! Must be zeks!" Perhaps he was going to come out with this plan right away on day 2. Unfortunately there was such a bandwagon for killing Jayme that seemed like it wouldn't get overturned. Shikyo decides, alright we can sack Jayme since we know he's clean. As soon as night rolls around I can start the plan against zeks. What do you think is more likely? zeks the stupid mafia or Shikyo the mastermind? Foolishness, that's actually a great point you bring up. Your Shikyo-Is-Mafia obsession aside, that indeed does make sense if zeks is the godfather. Listen to this, people. On May 19 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote: JeeJee, this argument isn't leading anywhere. His way of talking, albeit odd, wasn't really my main concern. I was just stating what I thought and observed, it's up to you to make out of it what you will. I would also like to propose that DTs rolecheck the losing parties of the elections asap. As was said in the other mafia game, it's likely at least one mafia is attempting to get elected, and so the losing candidates would be ideal targets for the DTs, assuming that no other, higher priority targets come up. This post was written before zeks ran for office, meaning that he knew about my plan all along. Now just imagine that zeks is the Godfather, and think about this scenario: Zeks is the godfather, so he's safe from rolechecks. He notices that we're going to check him if he's not elected. He starts posting really late. He knows he has no chance of winning the elections anymore, but he runs for office anyway. Why is that? He was planning on losing the elections all along. Why did he ask for people to vote for him in so many occassions? He wanted to be considered a prime candidate, someone we indeed should rolecheck after the elections are over, just according to the plan. His DT R/C plans and such all complement this story. This also gives a possible answer to the mysterious, seemingly stupid, hit of Jimtudor as well. He was an obvious third, and he would have been the prime candidate for a DT rolecheck. In fact, he was almost sure to be rolechecked. He'd have been shown as innocent, and the town could have started trusting him. However, zeks wanted to be the one who people see as innocent, so he killed Jimtudor off. It's likely he even used 2 hits against him because he wanted to be sure to take him out. Now, a DT would R/C him according to the plan, see he's an innocent(although he isn't), and the town would give all of their information to him. However, it was not to be. | ||
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Shikyo
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SugiuraMidori, you're absolutely correct. That also adds up to his strange, random post in the middle of all kinds of analysis and accusations. I think that he too would be a good choice for a lynch in the coming days. | ||
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Shikyo
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On May 24 2009 05:00 chaoser wrote: regarding my word choices, i really did mean THEY. I meant the elected. I am not an elected, we are not elected, JeeJee and Shikyo are elected. They are the "they" I talk about. and what random post are yo talking about? the one where I said the elected should do more? I wrote that up last night, and then went to a party before I could post it and when I woke up this morning i posted before i refresh So you're only saying we should do more, when I've spent the last 10 hours typing and checking up the post history? What the fuck? | ||
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Shikyo
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teks SugiuraMidori vx70GTOJudgexv crate Now, it seems like the list is going to be only 4 names... but I really think it should be longer. Any suggestions? I think that teks should be the highest priority to protect tonight, but everyone shouldn't protect him. It really would be easier to organize if the medics could somehow contact each other. Oh well, let's hope they already have something set up. Don't protect zeks, iLoveKTF, or other suspected mafia. It's pretty obvious why, vigis might want to decide to take action. Tonight is far more important in that aspect than the last night, since now we have to worry about not blocking vigilante hits. | ||
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On May 24 2009 05:24 crate wrote: one thing quick: I think it is very unlikely Pyrry would use zeks's name in a clue when he has some good info in his profile to form a clue from. The "winning isn't everything quote" can be attributed to either Vince Lombardi or to Red Sanders and there are tons of places to go from there. I'm not sure about compressed air causing a windshield to shatter either. However I haven't had time to think about what zeks has posted yet so I am not jumping to any conclusions right away. Clue analysis is not the main point of concern about the analysis right now, it's the behavior. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
first PM in that conversation. The time for the last one I already mentioned. How come I'm doing it wrong by first assuming he was the GF? O_o What am I supposed to do then? It makes no sense if he's green. I'd just label him as an idiot. | ||
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Shikyo
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"(teks) I don't TRUST anyone to be honest. Not even you But I'm pretty positive that Shikyo isn't mafia. And JeeJee has had me convinced. Jury is still out on Jimtudor I guess - I don't trust him yet. ----------------------------------------- (zeks) Original Message: do you trust all 3 of - Shikyo, JimTudor and JeeJee? ----------------------------------------- (teks) Original Message: atm I'm suspecting Foolishness, Phelix and softer. Mostly based on laying low and votes though, it's hard to judge them with the low activity level we are having at the moment.. I really hope we manage to draw people out. ----------------------------------------- (zeks) Original Message: who are you suspecting behaviour wise?" It doesn't make sense for him to not respond to this if he's green or blue, maybe tell who he suspects himself. "On May 19 2009 14:20 zeks wrote: I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early." It doesn't make sense to be against lynching inactives if you're green or blue. In his DT R/C plan, it doesn't make sense for him to not think that the probability of R/Cing Godfather isn't large enough. If he's a green or blue, it makes no sense for him to talk about the medic list but then not suggest a list of his own. If he's a green or blue, his terrible arguments about the reasons behind mafia including Jimtudor on a medic list don't make sense. I think I've already pointed these out? | ||
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et cetera | ||
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Teks is the remaining vigilante. Teks vigied zeks. There were 4 deaths, so it can't be a mafia. Although esben's loss was pretty disappointing, our medics and DTs are still intact. I'm sure if someone tries, they can tie some clues about the death to teks. I assume that he's that thing in his profile picture, although I'm not sure what it's able to do. Everyone, send your roles to teks. This is going to make the town a lot more organized and help us pick the mafia out easier. I'd also like to comment on the mafia's kills. This time, they make absolutely no sense. Koopie was a suspect, and so no fek, although probably important, was still a townie and not the highest profile player. EsbenPM was a decent lynch, though. | ||
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Shikyo
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Everyone sends their role to teks. Teks sees if the amount of blues is what they should be. Note: There are only 5 townies and 2 millers left. Since most mafia are going to claim townie, we're going to have possibly as many as 14 people claiming townie. HALF of those are going to be mafia. That leaves a 50% chance for a random lynch, and with clue analysis and behavioral analysis, we WILL be able to lynch at least 1 mafia tonight, although 2 is extremely possible. If there are too many blues, it should be simple enough to find out the ones who lie. Teks will also be able to act as a mouth for the DT's. EVERYONE needs to PM their role to teks as soon as possible. He has to make a list of who has sent a role and who hasn't. People who don't send roles will be immediately seen as extremely suspicious. If we are able to nail 2 mafia today, their KP will be reduced to 2. If we manage to accomplish this, we have essentially won the game. What this all accomplishes: Ability to properly organize medics and DT's, ability for the DT's to have their information heard through a mouth. Ability to essentially confirm all the blues, unless a mafia R/C's as one, in which case we'll find out who that is. Ability to make sure that there will be 7 mafia in 14 townies. We also will be able to have medic lists just for the sake of having them, and giving direct orders to medics for who to protect, leaving the mafia guessing. What this requires: People to be active enough to send their roles. I'm actually slightly worried about this, but please EVERYONE do this. | ||
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Never! Actually it might be a good idea to use up one of them for you. ^_^ That's what I was going to say, of course! | ||
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Well, I was wrong again, but even Judge was surprised she was green. Maybe you feel otherwise, not sure what to do about that. Let me just ask you, why aren't all the blues I know dead already? "Because you're a terrible player"? Well, if you like that argument, feel free. And town lvp? Hmm that's a bit harsh? I think I was wrong about 2 people, both of whom were acting suspiciously, and the other one didn't even matter since mafia killed her off(which is stupid). On the other hand, I've been suggesting plans etc and doing my best keeping the town somewhat organized. We can miss even this much if we want to, we just really need to be able to hit two mafias today. Well, enough about that. It's good to note that there are several suspicious people on the list of people who haven't yet sent their roles. But what's not good is teks voting for me -.- What the. Teks I just sent you a list of the blues I know. They're all alive. Oh well, in any case. I'll eat now, will say more about the list very soon. | ||
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