EPTTL Mafia 5 [Game Over] - Page 17
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I already said what i will do in my first platform, and have offered a plan and revised it to work. If you have fault with my stance, break apart my plan. I can clue analyze as well, I just realize day one analysis on its own is almost useless, we should all know that by now. 1) remember how randombum got pardoner? You should be able to realize how closely that parallels you, and why I am distrustful of anyone who gets a lot of early, unexplained votes. 2)here I'll distill your post for you: On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ok everyone, unlike the flashy gimicks of caller, I offer substance to my platform!. to start with heres my portfolio. Name: BloodyC0bbler Mafia experience: 5(6 if you count callers as two go's), 1 game run, 1 game co hosted Looking at just the one stat alone, I have the experience to lead this town to victory! In mafia 2, I was town aligned and we won, mafia 3 we as town dominated the mafia, mafia 4 was ruined by a jerkoff so well, can't really say much there. Tracils game ended early, but my side was winning. Callers first game ended day one with VI win, and his second game I as VI won. I have a high precident of winning the games on the side im part of, with ability, and luck like that, I would be an obvious goodluck charm for the town. I'm lucky. (You aren't plexa or ace, so I see no reason for you to claim the victory as being because of you. I've influenced at least 3 games far more strongly than you did) On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Now, witha ll the extra things I do on TL (PX, Location thread, etc...) You guys know I spend way to much time here, giving me the most amount of time to really jump ontop of things, I can analyze clues well which is helpful in your sheriff. I'm dedicated. On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As sheriff or mayor, I will help guide the town where I can doing what I do best, Analysis. I can analyze clues, behaviour of players and guide us in a winning direction. As sheriff, I can jail 4 people in a game once per person, this allows me to save potential targets from mafia in a night, or jail the mafia lowering their KP. As mayor I can guide us towards killing the right suspect, and with a day 1 auto lynch, kill the person who is the most fishy to the town, but in the end, that will come to a consensus among the town first. I'm smart. Your plan: On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Now for a plan. We all know the town works better when organized, as such, neither mayor nor sheriff can guide this town to victory without being under suspect (we always flip as mayor or sheriff regardless of any other role). So heres the plan. Medics protect veteran players early. When one of them takes a hit, the medic should roleclaim to that person AND that person should claim they took a hit. That person then gets checked. They get the medic checked as well. If BOTH check out, they both come out and serve as figureheads for the town. They coordinate blue abilities but keep information on to the town. When the person is hit they speak up. The sheriff then locks him up, protecting him from night hits while a dt checks him out. Once verified we repeat process with med, and have two figureheads, as opposed to the regular one. In the event the person who is hit doesnt speak up, the medic speaks up, we verify them first, then the one hit after. This is our best chance at getting town leadership quickly. Great. Unfortunately, Medics will know who the veterans are......how? If the medic knows they are a veteran, why do they have to wait for a hit? Just go ahead and claim medic and hope it isnt godfather, Veterans will be able to trust medics....why? Mafia will know a) we targetted X b) X didn't die c) X is either veteran or medic. If mafia suspects its a medic protection, they can just PM the guy claiming to be the medic. Now you have one veteran coming forward and 2 medics (or one (real) medic and no veteran). Mafia breaks at least even in both cases. Of course if it was in fact a veteran they risk coming out behind, but a risky mafia team might be willing to do it. You waste detective checks for little gain. You keep your veteran and medic alive how? You can't incarcerate them more than once, and you can only incarcerate one. Which means somehow you have to coordinate all the medics to protect the one you don;t incarcerate.... See the problem? There is absolutely no way you can tell the medics who to protect without telling the mafia which person you are incarcerating. Which means the smartest thing for mafia to do (luckily for you they dont have a suicide bomber) is attack everyone other than mayor. sheriff and those two people. Since guaranteed they will be unprotected. Then come back later and kill the person you didnt incarcerate (since they know its a blue and you cant protect them forever) Look, this is not a good plan, and will not give you a leadership structure. If a leadership structure has the smallest flaw, mafia instant wins. Are you that confident in this plan? Assuming the above is an out of date post since there isnt a veteran also how will you deal with multiple people coming forward? Mafia will make more than one hit per night, and there may be 0-MAXNUM hits that are medic-saved | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:22 fusionsdf wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2009 08:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I already said what i will do in my first platform, and have offered a plan and revised it to work. If you have fault with my stance, break apart my plan. I can clue analyze as well, I just realize day one analysis on its own is almost useless, we should all know that by now. 1) remember how randombum got pardoner? You should be able to realize how closely that parallels you, and why I am distrustful of anyone who gets a lot of early, unexplained votes. 2)here I'll distill your post for you: On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ok everyone, unlike the flashy gimicks of caller, I offer substance to my platform!. to start with heres my portfolio. Name: BloodyC0bbler Mafia experience: 5(6 if you count callers as two go's), 1 game run, 1 game co hosted Looking at just the one stat alone, I have the experience to lead this town to victory! In mafia 2, I was town aligned and we won, mafia 3 we as town dominated the mafia, mafia 4 was ruined by a jerkoff so well, can't really say much there. Tracils game ended early, but my side was winning. Callers first game ended day one with VI win, and his second game I as VI won. I have a high precident of winning the games on the side im part of, with ability, and luck like that, I would be an obvious goodluck charm for the town. I'm lucky. (You aren't plexa or ace, so I see no reason for you to claim the victory as being because of you. I've influenced at least 3 games far more strongly than you did) On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Now, witha ll the extra things I do on TL (PX, Location thread, etc...) You guys know I spend way to much time here, giving me the most amount of time to really jump ontop of things, I can analyze clues well which is helpful in your sheriff. I'm dedicated. On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As sheriff or mayor, I will help guide the town where I can doing what I do best, Analysis. I can analyze clues, behaviour of players and guide us in a winning direction. As sheriff, I can jail 4 people in a game once per person, this allows me to save potential targets from mafia in a night, or jail the mafia lowering their KP. As mayor I can guide us towards killing the right suspect, and with a day 1 auto lynch, kill the person who is the most fishy to the town, but in the end, that will come to a consensus among the town first. I'm smart. Your plan: On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Now for a plan. We all know the town works better when organized, as such, neither mayor nor sheriff can guide this town to victory without being under suspect (we always flip as mayor or sheriff regardless of any other role). So heres the plan. Medics protect veteran players early. When one of them takes a hit, the medic should roleclaim to that person AND that person should claim they took a hit. That person then gets checked. They get the medic checked as well. If BOTH check out, they both come out and serve as figureheads for the town. They coordinate blue abilities but keep information on to the town. When the person is hit they speak up. The sheriff then locks him up, protecting him from night hits while a dt checks him out. Once verified we repeat process with med, and have two figureheads, as opposed to the regular one. In the event the person who is hit doesnt speak up, the medic speaks up, we verify them first, then the one hit after. This is our best chance at getting town leadership quickly. Great. Unfortunately, Medics will know who the veterans are......how? If the medic knows they are a veteran, why do they have to wait for a hit? Just go ahead and claim medic and hope it isnt godfather, Veterans will be able to trust medics....why? Mafia will know a) we targetted X b) X didn't die c) X is either veteran or medic. If mafia suspects its a medic protection, they can just PM the guy claiming to be the medic. Now you have one veteran coming forward and 2 medics (or one (real) medic and no veteran). Mafia breaks at least even in both cases. Of course if it was in fact a veteran they risk coming out behind, but a risky mafia team might be willing to do it. You waste detective checks for little gain. You keep your veteran and medic alive how? You can't incarcerate them more than once, and you can only incarcerate one. Which means somehow you have to coordinate all the medics to protect the one you don;t incarcerate.... See the problem? There is absolutely no way you can tell the medics who to protect without telling the mafia which person you are incarcerating. Which means the smartest thing for mafia to do (luckily for you they dont have a suicide bomber) is attack everyone other than mayor. sheriff and those two people. Since guaranteed they will be unprotected. Then come back later and kill the person you didnt incarcerate (since they know its a blue and you cant protect them forever) Look, this is not a good plan, and will not give you a leadership structure. If a leadership structure has the smallest flaw, mafia instant wins. Are you that confident in this plan? Assuming the above is an out of date post since there isnt a veteran lol ninja edit, he meant veteran players, ace, ver wich are more likely to be hit by mafia. | ||
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zeks
Canada1068 Posts
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:19 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Pika Chu seems kind of lethargic in defending himself and only Nemy has tried to defend him and in doing so ignored the bulk of my analysis. If I was Pika Chu and innocent I'd be trying to defend myself by looking through the clues for someone else or continuing to restate the flaws some of the flaws in my analysis (the mafia character in question could be anything with more than l2 arms or any sort of animal that would hold things with its mouth or using psychic powers, although such characters wouldn't necessarily stand on 2 feet and run on 4 like a pikachu but I'd be trying to come up with something, especially if I was blue. If I was red I'd try to get some of my homies to defend me though they may be unwilling to go out on a limb once the bandwagon got too strong against me and they may being to implicate me to avoid suspicion. Pika Chu doesn't seem to be doing either of these, maybe he is green and not too motivated? Or maybe he is red and the reds have been told to take a low profile? Dunno. People have already noted how keen you are on blaming and trying to lynch me, a innocent townie. That is the best defense i can have. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Assume The Sheriff is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed. Assume the 'vet' is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed. | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think vigis should call out their hits beforehand since they only have one hit (making sure to send in their hit really early so it goes through). If the mafia use all of their kill power that night we will have a verified blue - if they lay off with killing power to try to make the person look suspicious, that would be stupid of them because we will have successfully deterred them and if they don't kill the vet we can medic protect him into a figurehead. If the vet dies that night (most likely) at least their hit went through and the vet getting killed is essentially a green at that point and much better than losing a DT / Medic / BG etc. There are several reasons why I don't like this plan. We essentially gain nothing unless we also save the Vigilante from being killed. If we don't do that then the Vigilante may have killed an innocent civilian and with the Vigilante dies we did NOT reduce the Mafia's kill power for the night, we increased it. Not only that but we don't have the person with a verified role because now he is dead. Anyone who publicly claims vigilante is likely going to die. They should still do this though as it prevents other roles and their own from being wasted as well as hinders the Mafia's ability to fake roleclaims. Another reason why I don't like this: If the confirmation of Vigilante is secret (which it may have to be in order to get far enough to have some sort of confirmation) then it's too easy to infiltrate. If I was mafia this is how I would try to infiltrate this plan by claiming myself as a Vigilante. Mafia could then use all their kill power killing people and also killing the person the "Vigilante" is supposed to kill. Then a Mafia members comes forward during the next day cycle and says that a Medic contacted him and he was saved. We check him and he turns out to be Mafia, that doesn't really help though, he could have been a Miller. At this point as a town we either need to just lynch one of the two who has come out, in which case our plan has been delayed a very long time or inspect the "Medic." If the medic is the Godfather in hiding then we just "confirmed" a Medic and a Miller and the Mafia is now in the inner circle receiving all of our roleclaims. By this point it will likely be Day 5 or 6 and we will have essentially gotten nowhere in creating a group of confirmed townies. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:32 Pika Chu wrote: People have already noted how keen you are on blaming and trying to lynch me, a innocent townie. That is the best defense i can have. I'm not keen on lynching anybody. If I was a vigi I'm not anywhere near suspicious enough of you that I would kill you. But the mayor has to pick someone to lynch day one and no one sticks out in my mind more at this point. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:34 semioldguy wrote: There are several reasons why I don't like this plan. On March 18 2009 04:38 semioldguy wrote: Mafia have no way to protect amongst themselves. Additionally a Vigilante could just publicly call out his hit the day before he plans on carrying it out. Since they only get one hit and after they use it they would have no special ability any longer. This would also keep the Medics from potentially protecting the Vigilante's hit. A Mafia could fake it by saying he is a Vigilante and is going to hit ___ person in order to keep a Medic off them, but this is unlikely as a Vigilante shouldn't be targeting someone unless he is a prime suspect. At which point eventually we will realize there are more Vigilante role claims then there are of that role in the game and all Vigilante-claimed individuals would be put into suspicion. If the Mafia kills the Vigilantes after they hit their targets, then it makes it riskier/more difficult to role-claim that themselves. I don't get it. What do you guys disagree about? | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=callerk.jpg) #I vote Pyrrhuloxia for sheriff As i said earlier this election is a random shot, theres no 100% good choice. And theres not too much to say about the clues, i guess we have to wait till mafia start killing. On a side note: in my experience there are up to 2 mafia writing in the thread. Normally mafia dont want too much attention at the start so im guessing at most 1 of them is running sheriff and 1 supporting him, the others are just hiding. | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:33 fusionsdf wrote: In other words BC. Assume The Sheriff is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed. The sheriff doesn't know who the Medic is. The only one who is known is the person who was saved in the night, who publicly announces it (because the mafia know it anyway). He alone knows who his medic is until he tells someone, and it most certainly should not be told to the Sheriff or Mayor. Assume the 'vet' is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed. If the "vet" is Mafia then he will never be the target of a hit while a medic is on him because Mafia can't target their own. Therefore a medic is never going to reveal themselves to a mafia this way. | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:37 fusionsdf wrote: I don't get it. What do you guys disagree about? He has a different reason for a Vigilante calling out his attack to confirm a role. I am saying there are too many holes to do it that way. However, Vigilantes should always call out their kills as the do them because it makes sure a medic doesn't accidentally protect that person (who may be mafia) and therefore we never have a situation where a Medic can successfully protect a mafia member. there is almost no downside to a Vigilante calling out his kill, the town gains much more advantage from it than the mafia do (they don't have any way to protect themselves if one of them is targeted and most vigilante targets should not be on the lists for Mafia to kill anyway. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:34 semioldguy wrote: There are several reasons why I don't like this plan. We essentially gain nothing unless we also save the Vigilante from being killed. If we don't do that then the Vigilante may have killed an innocent civilian and with the Vigilante dies we did NOT reduce the Mafia's kill power for the night, we increased it. Not only that but we don't have the person with a verified role because now he is dead. Anyone who publicly claims vigilante is likely going to die. They should still do this though as it prevents other roles and their own from being wasted as well as hinders the Mafia's ability to fake roleclaims. Another reason why I don't like this: If the confirmation of Vigilante is secret (which it may have to be in order to get far enough to have some sort of confirmation) then it's too easy to infiltrate. If I was mafia this is how I would try to infiltrate this plan by claiming myself as a Vigilante. Mafia could then use all their kill power killing people and also killing the person the "Vigilante" is supposed to kill. Then a Mafia members comes forward during the next day cycle and says that a Medic contacted him and he was saved. We check him and he turns out to be Mafia, that doesn't really help though, he could have been a Miller. At this point as a town we either need to just lynch one of the two who has come out, in which case our plan has been delayed a very long time or inspect the "Medic." If the medic is the Godfather in hiding then we just "confirmed" a Medic and a Miller and the Mafia is now in the inner circle receiving all of our roleclaims. By this point it will likely be Day 5 or 6 and we will have essentially gotten nowhere in creating a group of confirmed townies. Alright, we agree the vigis should call their hits to avoid overlapping at the very least. The confirmation of the vigi can really only happen if the mafia fucks up and hits people other than the vigi and who the vigi was going to hit (but they'll just hit who the vigi was going to hit and cancel his hit, unless the vigi gets lucky and calls a mafia, since mafia can't hit mafia). Essentially, we agree the vigi should call their hit and if mafia has fallen off the turnip truck we'll get a publicly confirmed blue. I never said anything about private confirmation so there's nothing to infiltrate. If the mafia is off their game and allow us that, the medics should protect them so the mafia either has to waste KP taking out the organizational figure or allows us to get more organized. There's no surefire way to trust anyone if the mafia plays their cards right but if the mafia is as clueless as last game there might be is all I'm saying. Ultimately this game is going to come down to clue analysis and earning trust the old fashioned way, I think. | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
Also if Mafia don't try to fake roleclaim then we know to disregard clues that show up for the people who are claiming to be vigilantes, which is also good for us. ....seriously fusionsdf, this has all been mentioned already. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:49 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I forgot to say in my last post that if the Vigi gets lucky and picks a mafia it forces the mafia to not use a KP or we get a confirmed blue - of course the vigi probably gets killed but who knows the mafia might eff up and get disorganized and we might as well give them the chance. Even if the mafia do hold back on kill power, if the Vigilante hits a red they are 100% confirmed Vigilante because the Mafia cannot kill each other off. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:47 semioldguy wrote: Also if every vigilante calls himself out as he kills then Mafia can't easily fake role claim as Vigilantes because before very long the numbers will not add up and we will have a small list with suspects, which is good for us. Also if Mafia don't try to fake roleclaim then we know to disregard clues that show up for the people who are claiming to be vigilantes, which is also good for us. ....seriously fusionsdf, this has all been mentioned already. hey, that has nothing to do with anything I posted | ||
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semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:33 fusionsdf wrote: In other words BC. Assume The Sheriff is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed. Assume the 'vet' is Mafia. Tell me how you plan to prevent the medic from being killed. | ||
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On March 18 2009 08:35 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I'm not keen on lynching anybody. If I was a vigi I'm not anywhere near suspicious enough of you that I would kill you. But the mayor has to pick someone to lynch day one and no one sticks out in my mind more at this point. So you're willing to lynch me just because you can't find any other connection in the story? And willing to sacrifice a greeny or even a blue one just because you have no better idea? You aren't very determined or sure of what you want to do, are you? People should be smart enough to vote otherwise. | ||
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