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I was wondering if I should have revealed I knew about dinmsab's role, but I guess since you bring it up it's irrelevant. If I was mafia wouldn't he have died the next day? I'm pretty sure killing a dt (arguably the town's most useful role) is worth 1 mafia, if I was mafia that is.
Once again I ask that you guys just clue/role check me vs the bum clues, it will be quite evident if I'm the bum.
To reiterate, CHECK THE CLUES AGAINST ME. Rather simple, I don't want to be lynched because I knew somebody's role. I mean ace knows all the roles.... (and there have been 6 blue deaths.) Granted he's likely also a townie, but once the check turns me up as townie I hope I won't have to suffer for getting a position thats not even useful. I mean, I likely won't pardon anyone unless right at the last second ace gets pushed into getting lynched or something. I mean if you guys want to lynch another innocent townie then don't bother checking me and just lynch me too
Also, it's possible dinmsab was just good luck, I mean they killed a whole bunch of random townies that day.
I hope this doesn't get lost amongst showtime's many posts per page.
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Man finally free, going to catch up on this thread now, looks like a lot of things have been happening.
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On April 17 2008 11:11 fusionsdf wrote:
How come people miraculously check on the thread for the first time in a week right when they become suspects?
A lot of people (At least me personally) are checking the thread and reading it. But we don't want to take the time to go though deciphering clues, or put out accusations that we will have to defend and support. There are a lot of reasons for this, and for me personally it was my lack of involvement in the important decisions. Anything I say puts me at risk, and I may not be right or listened to.
So yea, people might just be reading it and not bothering to post until their life is in danger. Too many townies are willing to take a spectator seat in this game. Also, I thought we had the game in the bag with the dt # system, but since we are counting only on clues now I will probably start contributing my thoughts. Especially since I'm safe from mafia. So far all I've got is that plexa and MTF seem like they are smart and should be protected.
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I'm surprised I still have some suspicions, thats fine I guess this whole game is about suspicions. Personally I'm against lynching L because we have as much information on other mafia suspects, and these suspects don't have a chance of being a blue (regardless how small, I mean ace has made mistakes, he may be wrong again). Just a quick thing to point out, while L in the manga/anime fits enigma somewhat, he was definitely NOT ugly. At least not hideous, out of the two main characters 1 was actually considered hot (He was super popular and all the girls admired his looks.)
And scorch, the person who made that sign of me was falcynn, who is likely not mafia, so "a pretty cool guy" wouldn't point at me regardless.I am in support of ace's newest post of Ninja/dragoon/damage (Not so much, seems rather forced upon him) along with plexa's newest findings I think we are moving in a great direction, and we probably have a list of at least 1/2 the remaining mafia (I'm sure ace has more).
Also, I want to point out that we are finding clues to point at people because we want to, we should look at clues and apply them to people instead of choosing people and applying clues to them. I hope that made sense.
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Nightmare I haven't been active because I have had nothing to real contribute. I'm not used to clue analysis since all my mafia games have been based of of the players actions and voting patterns (in which case I would be suspicious of me too, but I wouldn't advocate lynching me.). The only time I come back is if I have something to say that is not really clue analysis.
As to your points, even IF the mafia did try to get me into office wouldn't I have gotten it? I mean there are 20 mafia (19 if you suspect me) who could vote for me, yet I only had 28 votes total. Furthermore, just because the pattern at the moment seems like mafia wanted me as mayor it doesn't conclude with me as mafia myself. They probably did not want Ace as mayor since he seems like he had a lot of experience and would be a better mayor. (just a guess)
Besides, its not like I need to be active anyways. There are 70 townies left, we have over 10 days to lynch the mafia. This does not include their kill power going down with each lynch. If we get 2 mafia today it will take 14 days before all us townies die. And seeing as there are only 14 left they still won't be able to control the vote for at LEAST 10 days even if we don't manage to lynch a single one of them in those 10 days. These overwhelming numbers is why I have cut time for this game.
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I feel so useless, I'm not good at clue interpretations, and I won't get to pardon unless mafia sway a second vote or something. Still mathematically we have won. So i'm not worried.
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Since many people seem not too sure about unforgiven besides plexa (myself included), do we have a better candidate, or perhaps ace withdrawing his double lynchness?
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On May 17 2008 10:19 Mynock wrote:
Hey guys, just a heads up: exactly 50% of all the starting players (65/130) are now left in the game.
49.09% townies are alive.
55% mafia are alive.
Thats good, mafia killing power has been going down, but our ability to lynch them is the same (well I think all our vig hits are used, but thats ok since we got some townies anyways). So if we keep this trend we have won. Mafia killing power is almost 1/2 what they started with so even with plexa afk this weekend its all good.
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On May 21 2008 16:14 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2008 15:58 Alethios wrote:Clazziquai seems like one of those Dr.Dragoon lynchings. The evidence is strong... everybody is sick of his inane prattle and he's being dumped in the vote thread. Hopefully he won't turn out to be pumping green blood. -------- Get out and vote here. All detectives are gone... so don't ever let the mafia sway the votes! Have a look at the evidence and make an informed decision. If you don't have the time to look at all the evidence, have a quick look and make your decision based upon somebody you trust. Eh? Dr.Dragoon is still alive haha
Soo.... what your saying is we should remedy this?
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On May 22 2008 12:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2008 10:34 clazziquai wrote:On May 15 2008 05:08 nemY wrote:
Also, I don't get why we don't lynch clazziquai, someone who we know is 110% mafia. Let's lynch nemY I'm 9000% sure he is mafia Show nested quote +On May 20 2008 04:25 clazziquai wrote:On May 19 2008 14:36 Plexa wrote:
clazziquai, who do you think is mr orange then?
even more, who do think is mafia? i dont know who mr orange can be i think ninja4ever is the mafia Thus nemY and ninja are pretty much innocenthttp://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=70601¤tpage=1#15oh the irony
Plexa, your assuming mafia are stupid. You take for granted if mafia names someone, he is town, if mafia protects him, he is mafia. This is like poker where you assume if they bet they have a good hand, if they call/check they have a bad hand.
You are ignoring potential deception in which even mediocre mafia players will attempt since this is ultimately an (educated) guessing game. Clazz's posts are particularly suspect because he has been a large candidate for mafia, and his own actions have given him away, almost as if he wants to be caught. (such as clazz's: "I'm mafia") This actually LEADS me to suspect nemy.
This rivalry could have easily been a ploy between two mafia with one of them who would eventually go down protecting the other. Unless nemY has contributed something substantial that I missed then my suspicions will stay on him. (since usually thats how you identify real true townies, I mean mafia don't go handing out other mafia unless they are top suspects anyways.)
I also have suspicions of ninja since he has been a candidate, but its less substantial because clazz and unforgiven both voted him, maybe trying to save unforgiven.
All this is edited out if he flips green. (very unlikely)
Edit: LOL auto underline poker, I never knew
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On May 22 2008 13:34 clazziquai wrote:
randombum get off my dick thx
you only responded so quickly because I'm right aren't I?
Or would you prefer I treat the mafia as stupid, of course that could only help you guys since mafia play this game has been anything but stupid.
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On May 22 2008 13:44 Plexa wrote:
while that may be true randombum - consider the circumstances around the mafias promotion of ninja et al. They were trying to shift focus from unforgiven onto other targets. None of those three candidates (sureshot, ninja etc) have strong solid clues linking to them and this is backed up by the mafia trying to sway votes.
nemY may well be guilty but i simply cannot find anything to stick to him thus he looks fairly innocent in my eyes
True enough, but I figured I would point out my suspicions in case it led you to a spark of brilliance.
I'm mainly trying to say is we have to second guess all our initial conclusions from mafia posts since it is their job to deceive us, and our job to sort fact from fiction.
Until we get clues against him all that will remain are suspicions.
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On May 22 2008 13:54 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2008 13:47 randombum wrote:On May 22 2008 13:44 Plexa wrote:
while that may be true randombum - consider the circumstances around the mafias promotion of ninja et al. They were trying to shift focus from unforgiven onto other targets. None of those three candidates (sureshot, ninja etc) have strong solid clues linking to them and this is backed up by the mafia trying to sway votes.
nemY may well be guilty but i simply cannot find anything to stick to him thus he looks fairly innocent in my eyes True enough, but I figured I would point out my suspicions in case it led you to a spark of brilliance. I'm mainly trying to say is we have to second guess all our initial conclusions from mafia posts since it is their job to deceive us, and our job to sort fact from fiction. Until we get clues against him all that will remain are suspicions. I find that its always best to prioritize and by deeming some "innocent" you lessen the burden on yourself when you analyze. However, when they are deemed "innocent" it doesn't mean they aren't necessarily mafia - just that we're unlikely to find mafia within them
K, I'm sure you've at least given nemy a glance so we can not lynch him if it helps shorten the list. I just wanted to point out a flaw in your thinking when you are allocating "innocence".
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On May 23 2008 10:16 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:
any top suspect atm anyway?
Plexa's top three are jtan, jimtudor, and oc3zfjsnakjdnas whatever it is
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On May 24 2008 01:19 Plexa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Copperhead and Mr. Black were the first to act as they broke into the home of JeeJee. But as they broke the glass of one of his windows JeeJee woke up and grabbed his trusty baseball bat and headed down the stairs to meet them. He crept down slowly and peered around the corner to see Copperhead standing in wait for Mr. Black as he climbed in through the window. JeeJee didn't waste anytime waiting and charged at Copperhead with the bat but Mr. Black caught it with his hand and yanked it from JeeJee. JeeJee grabbed it and tried getting it back from him only to find it was stuck to his hand now. He backed up and Copperhead pulled a knife from his left pocket and said "well look here now, we've come to kill ya but yer gunna get a choice on how ya die, you can choose this here knife or whatevers in my right pocket". JeeJee saw his right pocket was bulging with something too large for it and motioned at the knife as he was backing into his kitchen to get a knife of his own to fight back with. Copperhead groaned "there no fun in that but I can't really argue, we gotta get this here done quick" so he ran towards JeeJee slashing with the knife. JeeJee not yet armed himself grabbed a towel next to him and wrapped it around Copperheads arm, he smashed it in the side of the wall and knocked the knife out of his hand. He grabbed the knife and pushed Copperhead aside as he ran towards the door to escape.
Copperhead found Falcynn working late at school on an essay. He saw him at a computer typing it up and crept up from behind. Copperhead grabbed his chair and wheeled him into a printer table off to the side knocking several things from the shelves onto him. Falcynn pushed himself away from it and got up to defend himself, he grabbed a pen which had fallen onto the ground and slashed upward with it at Copperhead. Copperhead grabbed a keyboard and used it as a shield, he deflected the pen and smashed it into Falcynn. He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head between the two keyboards. This is... well... depressing to say the least... gah Without going into too much detail; Show nested quote +"well look here now, we've come to kill ya but yer gunna get a choice on how ya die, you can choose this here knife or whatevers in my right pocket". JeeJee saw his right pocket was bulging with something too large for it and motioned at the knife as he was backing into his kitchen to get a knife of his own to fight back with. Show nested quote +He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head between the two keyboards. Copperhead is RANDOM, fucking RANDOM -.-;;; randombum.. are you mafia?! Basically if 0cz3c turns green, our pardoner is mafia  EDIT: in fact, 0cz3c looks like he is actually green o god... EDIT2: previously i had assumed innocence, but he is indeed on the mandalor list :X EDIT3: This explains RandomBum's behavior perfectly... the lack of participation despite "spending most of his time on tl". The lack of faith in the unforgiven lynch.. him perking up once suspected wow wtf my universe is imploding
My behavior is explained because part of my conditions for using my time on this game was if I was elected mayor. Since I did not receive the position I wanted my interest soon wondered elsewhere. IE If I had ace's job and information I would have been far more active. But acting alone really is a lot less fun. (Unlike you plexa who has associates, and all the information town has).
I'll grant that my lack of faith in unforgiven was rather damning, but if I were mafia don't you think I would have pardoned somebody by now?
Seems like you are trying to force a person on me.
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On May 24 2008 01:59 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2008 01:50 randombum wrote:On May 24 2008 01:19 Plexa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Copperhead and Mr. Black were the first to act as they broke into the home of JeeJee. But as they broke the glass of one of his windows JeeJee woke up and grabbed his trusty baseball bat and headed down the stairs to meet them. He crept down slowly and peered around the corner to see Copperhead standing in wait for Mr. Black as he climbed in through the window. JeeJee didn't waste anytime waiting and charged at Copperhead with the bat but Mr. Black caught it with his hand and yanked it from JeeJee. JeeJee grabbed it and tried getting it back from him only to find it was stuck to his hand now. He backed up and Copperhead pulled a knife from his left pocket and said "well look here now, we've come to kill ya but yer gunna get a choice on how ya die, you can choose this here knife or whatevers in my right pocket". JeeJee saw his right pocket was bulging with something too large for it and motioned at the knife as he was backing into his kitchen to get a knife of his own to fight back with. Copperhead groaned "there no fun in that but I can't really argue, we gotta get this here done quick" so he ran towards JeeJee slashing with the knife. JeeJee not yet armed himself grabbed a towel next to him and wrapped it around Copperheads arm, he smashed it in the side of the wall and knocked the knife out of his hand. He grabbed the knife and pushed Copperhead aside as he ran towards the door to escape.
Copperhead found Falcynn working late at school on an essay. He saw him at a computer typing it up and crept up from behind. Copperhead grabbed his chair and wheeled him into a printer table off to the side knocking several things from the shelves onto him. Falcynn pushed himself away from it and got up to defend himself, he grabbed a pen which had fallen onto the ground and slashed upward with it at Copperhead. Copperhead grabbed a keyboard and used it as a shield, he deflected the pen and smashed it into Falcynn. He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head b
etween the two keyboards. This is... well... depressing to say the least... gah Without going into too much detail; "well look here now, we've come to kill ya but yer gunna get a choice on how ya die, you can choose this here knife or whatevers in my right pocket". JeeJee saw his right pocket was bulging with something too large for it and motioned at the knife as he was backing into his kitchen to get a knife of his own to fight back with. He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head between the two keyboards. Copperhead is RANDOM, fucking RANDOM -.-;;; randombum.. are you mafia?! Basically if 0cz3c turns green, our pardoner is mafia EDIT: in fact, 0cz3c looks like he is actually green o god... EDIT2: previously i had assumed innocence, but he is indeed on the mandalor list :X EDIT3: This explains RandomBum's behavior perfectly... the lack of participation despite "spending most of his time on tl". The lack of faith in the unforgiven lynch.. him perking up once suspected wow wtf my universe is imploding My behavior is explained because part of my conditions for using my time on this game was if I was elected mayor. Since I did not receive the position I wanted my interest soon wondered elsewhere. IE If I had ace's job and information I would have been far more active. But acting alone really is a lot less fun. (Unlike you plexa who has associates, and all the information town has). I'll grant that my lack of faith in unforgiven was rather damning, but if I were mafia don't you think I would have pardoned somebody by now? Seems like you are trying to force a person on me. I want to beleive you're not mafia, i really really do... Obviously, you are in a position of power - so why would you pardon a mafia when that means you look very suspicious should that person turn red. You would want to maintain this secure position from where you can support mafia antics. Even though you claim your interest waned, its still an interesting correlation And for the record, I was only let into the circle after d.arkive suicided... i was doing analysis without associates before as well.. over time i acquired allies and we have been working hard together to bring mafia down. Information or not, all it did was save me some time... Ultimately i dont want to think you're mafia.. but your defense is actually typical of all the mafia thus far haha and theres a substantial amount of evidence pointing your way... e.g. try to explain that mafia train when you ran for mayor? suddenly they all switched votes trying to get you elected Pending the information i get from Ace regarding whether people actually checked your role - i am going to have to say you're mafia. And i would not do this lightly good sir, you after all hold an extremely valuable role. Your best defense at this point is to show me how the clues connect somewhere else
If I were a mafia pardoner I could easily pardon somebody who some people were against lynching (L). The only way to see if he is red is to keep lynching him (since vigs are dead), whom I could pardon again. Then the only thing left is if the town (which is not entirely sure) wants L dead, they have to lynch me first. Which would sow confusion and distrust, which alone would be worth it if I was mafia. Also, how does being in a position of power (Which isn't all that useful, my only hope of using it is if ace went nuts and used his +6 vote to lynch plexa). If I were to have pardoned a mafia I would have done it early game to keep mafia kill count up.
Ultimately, staying in this position as mafia would help the mafia less than to have a few extra kills for a few more nights.
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LOL at plexa's quadrupple post before me
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On May 24 2008 02:15 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2008 02:09 randombum wrote:On May 24 2008 01:59 Plexa wrote:On May 24 2008 01:50 randombum wrote:On May 24 2008 01:19 Plexa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Copperhead and Mr. Black were the first to act as they broke into the home of JeeJee. But as they broke the glass of one of his windows JeeJee woke up and grabbed his trusty baseball bat and headed down the stairs to meet them. He crept down slowly and peered around the corner to see Copperhead standing in wait for Mr. Black as he climbed in through the window. JeeJee didn't waste anytime waiting and charged at Copperhead with the bat but Mr. Black caught it with his hand and yanked it from JeeJee. JeeJee grabbed it and tried getting it back from him only to find it was stuck to his hand now. He backed up and Copperhead pulled a knife from his left pocket and said "well look here now, we've come to kill ya but yer gunna get a choice on how ya die, you can choose this here knife or whatevers in my right pocket". JeeJee saw his right pocket was bulging with something too large for it and motioned at the knife as he was backing into his kitchen to get a knife of his own to fight back with. Copperhead groaned "there no fun in that but I can't really argue, we gotta get this here done quick" so he ran towards JeeJee slashing with the knife. JeeJee not yet armed himself grabbed a towel next to him and wrapped it around Copperheads arm, he smashed it in the side of the wall and knocked the knife out of his hand. He grabbed the knife and pushed Copperhead aside as he ran towards the door to escape.
Copperhead found Falcynn working late at school on an essay. He saw him at a computer typing it up and crept up from behind. Copperhead grabbed his chair and wheeled him into a printer table off to the side knocking several things from the shelves onto him. Falcynn pushed himself away from it and got up to defend himself, he grabbed a pen which had fallen onto the ground and slashed upward with it at Copperhead. Copperhead grabbed a keyboard and used it as a shield, he deflected the pen and smashed it into Falcynn. He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head b
etween the two keyboards. This is... well... depressing to say the least... gah Without going into too much detail; "well look here now, we've come to kill ya but yer gunna get a choice on how ya die, you can choose this here knife or whatevers in my right pocket". JeeJee saw his right pocket was bulging with something too large for it and motioned at the knife as he was backing into his kitchen to get a knife of his own to fight back with. He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head between the two keyboards. Copperhead is RANDOM, fucking RANDOM -.-;;; randombum.. are you mafia?! Basically if 0cz3c turns green, our pardoner is mafia EDIT: in fact, 0cz3c looks like he is actually green o god... EDIT2: previously i had assumed innocence, but he is indeed on the mandalor list :X EDIT3: This explains RandomBum's behavior perfectly... the lack of participation despite "spending most of his time on tl". The lack of faith in the unforgiven lynch.. him perking up once suspected wow wtf my universe is imploding My behavior is explained because part of my conditions for using my time on this game was if I was elected mayor. Since I did not receive the position I wanted my interest soon wondered elsewhere. IE If I had ace's job and information I would have been far more active. But acting alone really is a lot less fun. (Unlike you plexa who has associates, and all the information town has). I'll grant that my lack of faith in unforgiven was rather damning, but if I were mafia don't you think I would have pardoned somebody by now? Seems like you are trying to force a person on me. I want to beleive you're not mafia, i really really do... Obviously, you are in a position of power - so why would you pardon a mafia when that means you look very suspicious should that person turn red. You would want to maintain this secure position from where you can support mafia antics. Even though you claim your interest waned, its still an interesting correlation And for the record, I was only let into the circle after d.arkive suicided... i was doing analysis without associates before as well.. over time i acquired allies and we have been working hard together to bring mafia down. Information or not, all it did was save me some time... Ultimately i dont want to think you're mafia.. but your defense is actually typical of all the mafia thus far haha and theres a substantial amount of evidence pointing your way... e.g. try to explain that mafia train when you ran for mayor? suddenly they all switched votes trying to get you elected Pending the information i get from Ace regarding whether people actually checked your role - i am going to have to say you're mafia. And i would not do this lightly good sir, you after all hold an extremely valuable role. Your best defense at this point is to show me how the clues connect somewhere else If I were a mafia pardoner I could easily pardon somebody who some people were against lynching (L). The only way to see if he is red is to keep lynching him (since vigs are dead), whom I could pardon again. Then the only thing left is if the town (which is not entirely sure) wants L dead, they have to lynch me first. Which would sow confusion and distrust, which alone would be worth it if I was mafia. Also, how does being in a position of power (Which isn't all that useful, my only hope of using it is if ace went nuts and used his +6 vote to lynch plexa). If I were to have pardoned a mafia I would have done it early game to keep mafia kill count up. Ultimately, staying in this position as mafia would help the mafia less than to have a few extra kills for a few more nights. But the position keeps you "off the radar" (or at least has done). But yes, let's continue to argue you conduct. Myself, Ace and MTF knew L was mafia and if you had stepped in you would have been found out rather easily. This goes for the majority of other lynchings - remember that we scored a number of mafia kills via vigilantes in the early days - proving your pardoning powers useless anyway. You haven't addressed a number of issues but w/e. As i outlined before we just lynch others and wait for chuiu to force your hand (or mafia killing Ace et al but not you  )
Let's just wait then, because to be honest, I don't feel up to trying to out sway the town vs plexa. If you really want to wait to kill me the I'll die, thats sort of it.
Also killing ace but not killing me would not prove me mafia. It would have if you did not mention it, but now that you have mafia might let me live just so the town wastes a lynch on me. Ace would die because he has all the information and can lead the town far better than I can.
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EPT
